Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[Faraday]

Fuzzy handcuffs? Hmmm.

I'm here, I'll have a post up in like an hour, I'm a quick reader

[Faraday]

Wait is there 3 week deadlines? That means deadline is soon?

[Faraday]

Erm that's 4 days away, so soon enough. K back to re-reading.

[Faraday]

or that.

[Faraday]

BLAH REPLACING, gonna run through the thread and see what pops out. I hope to just get involved quite quickly and interacting with players, makes things easier. Ask any questions or stuff, I may have missed things in my read...

Has anybody figured out who's scum yet?

Yep. J-Fox and YamiJoey. She hasn't been around long enough to know his name unless they have been talking pre-game. So bleh! Haylen, awesome scumhunter ftw.

How serious was this?

Voting for yourself is bad, don't do it etc etc.

Wicked's question are mostly useless but at least he's trying. Nice pouncing on the 'slip' btw, I'd give it more credence if I thought 2 scum was especiall likely, but I don't see it in a Large game.

Haylen = Mastin, apparently. But moving on.

Post 95 makes me want to smack my head against a wall. Why did you vote yourself here? And you hate being in the spotlight but voted yourself. WAT. Does not compute.

Fucking hell wicked 'why aren't you the serial killer' is an awful question to ask someone /facepalm. Does make some good points though. Feels different to when I played with him before, he was town, I was scum in that game, but yeh he seems to have improved.

SQUIRREL'S 106 is stupid, even if you don't like his posts ignoring him is bad play.

Nothing is necessarily 'wrong' with bandwagoning, but mafia do use that as a tactic to pile up votes on a person, for a quick lynch. On the other hand, as seen in this day 1 it appears to be a good thing, because it can start up more serious discussion. 

I didn't vote, because there are two options I had to pick between. I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote. 

Mafia aren';t the only ones who bandwagon. Bandwagons are great and should be used more often.

I don't understand the second part, why not put down a vote on one of them? It can always be removed, it's not there for the day. Plus it adds some pressure to them.

Furry is :goodposting: so far.

Solemn: Do you believe chainsaw defence to be an accurate tell? Have you used it before in games to find scum?

120 is goodposting.

 I disagree. Asking stupid questions just spams up the thread and distracts us from any real evidence that other players might have or any scummy actions of theirs. Plus, it just makes you look stupid and detracts from any credibility I give your posts in the future. 

Asking questions is worse than voting for yourself or just fucking around for the first 2 pages? Don't they distract us from any real evidence too?
Last sentence is BAD. I can understand your frustation I guess, as the question originally was pretty pointless, but meh ignoring people is bad.

Don't understand katniss's vote and unvote of wicked. He didn't really do a lot in that time to make you unvote, and I don't like the reasons for you voting him in the first place.


Hey How do you distinguish between scum and badtown with this method though? It'd also be nice if you said which you thought he was.

Big giant fucking wat @ Vistasoldier's first post(I think) 155. Defending yourself is scummy now, apparently?

Agree w/ cruelty. Good vote too. Haylen's response of it being early game is a terrible excuse.

Hey Malpa, nice to see you just checking in dude. This is like a cool hotel, and stuff. Idk maybe post some content dude?

'Stop going for an easy lynch' says haylen. YO Haylen I'm really happy for you and Imma let you finish but

Vote Haylen

I'm just voting for pressure. I do not have any intentions to lynch you. So can you quote it? We can then look from there.

By saying this you remove all pressure from your vote. Happy Birthday.

Wicke/Squirrel makes my eyes go sleepy. I find the whole argument pretty uninteresting.

Need to get caught up, but this is a fail of a HoS. Pressure votes work wonders. People play differently under pressure 

Agree that it's a FAIL. But, mostly b/c what he HOS'd for wasn't scummy, just not optimal play.

Wicked has twice now pointed out that he's never been scum. Noted.

Katniss stop being so indecisive. Fence sitting is scummy.

Imo, people have a tendency to overuse smileys and make light of a situation they otherwise would prefer to not be in

Agreed. I think it's probably quite useful as a tell.

Haylen instead of pointing out rule breaking, maybe post content. Also what was the point of pointing that out in the first place?

Agreed with the Haylen votes. More wagon now quickly.

234 is a post that's not needed. Perhaps you should have spent that time re-reading the thread instead?

HAYLEN DOES DO OMGUS, in 239, lmao.

Just read her in ISO after this. Absolutely nothing. V happy w/ my vote.

259, Deathnote you disagree with the Haylen votes then? Why?

Haylen wagon is bad, furry? Why? She's done absolutely nothing.

Post 273. Wicked you're willing to vote yourself? WTF??

For the point - Cruelty, removing everything regarding lurking/fluff, what do you think of Haylen? 

Why are we removing these things when they're both scummy?


Eh kinda skimmed the last page or 2. Rhinox has came in with a bang, his sig was also the reason I replaced in.

Anyway quite happy with my haylen vote at the moment. This is not a pressure vote, this is a 'your lack of content and lurking have been scummy' vote.

Katniss's lack of position on everything, pretty much, is worrying, though some of her posts do give me a generally newb town read.

Wicked seems town so far too.

CK is also fairly scummy and I don't mind the wagon on him.

There's a couple of people who need to post a lot more.

[Faraday]

I don't believe I did knock fuzzy handcuffs, now with the most important part of the post oput of the way..

Well I'll flatly disagree with the first bit, but obviously your personal experience, is well your own. She's posted enough non content posts, and zero content.

I don't think asking to remove things from a person's play is helpful though, I mean I guess I see what you're after just don't think it's very helpful.

[Faraday]

Also too many pointless quote walls in the thread, try and condense your posts and make your points, they're far easier to read, and look more pleasing to my Irish eyes. <3

(yeh yeh I used quotes too but w/e)

[Faraday]

I don't think asking to remove things from a person's play is helpful though, I mean I guess I see what you're after just don't think it's very helpful.

Why?

Its worthwhile to see what is considered as equivilant or greater then lurking, the more you can force someone to give opinions on why X > Y >> Z the better chances you have of catching them trying to save partners later by switching stuff up.

Because it just doesn't work like that. You can't just remove an aspect of someone's play, that's scummy, it's nearly impossible to then analyse the rest of their play. It's everything together, and in general I don't think there should be concrete opinions on scumtells, per se, it all depends on the context.

[Faraday]

Im not defensive.
Clearly there needs to be OMGUS intent for it to be OMGUS. There wasn't. I had real reasons.
[/Quotes]
You say that butttttttt, I find that hard to believe.

I consider myself and easy lynch because my playstyle has flaws that I am still working on.

So? How does a playstyle that's got flaws correlate to an easy lynch. I don't think you're an easy lynch at all, you're certaintly not a newbie, and you're not zwet or someone of that ilk, so the easy lynch argument is quite frankly absurd.

And I am actually in the middle of 3 analysis posts right now. I had to restart this one because my computer restarted and I lost everything i was working on, including my coursework.

Looking forward to it..

And @ Solemn, yeh I was just wondering, even Tar himself, who's the one who coined the term( I think) said it's not very effective without some flips.

[Faraday]

Waiting on Haylen and stuff.

Also everyone should be voting, as Furry said. If not you better have a damn good reason, this close to deadline.

[Faraday]

Ugh, sorry its taking me so long to catch up. I'm on page ten now, and so far Wicked and Crueknight look pretty scummy, sort of a weird read on Haylen. Not really sure what to make of her.

More to come.

You don't mention this weird read of Haylen in your full catch up post. Explain this.

[Faraday]

it literally took me an hour to read everything and type it up while eating my dinner. I mean come on ffs, too many people not doing anything in the game.

Haylen if she has anything wrote should post it. Ugh this is annoying. Malpa's surely lurking too. Post plz.

[Faraday]

Torquez has TWO posts that are filled with content all game. Seriously?

Oh I wish I was an unlimited dayvig

[Faraday]

A scumilicious mixture of IIOA, varying excuses for not posting, and a complete and utter lack of dedication to scum hunting.

What's IIOA?
<words>

Information instead of analysis. Basically active lurking.

In fact this post is another great example of it.

The OMGUS vote is

clearly

nothing but OMGUS, btw.

[Faraday]

^^bolded it to look fancy, tbh.


But seriously, contribute or die.

The Inquisition seems like a tip-top fellow.

[Faraday]

IIOA is information instead of analysis.

Using meta as a defense only works when others have attacked you using your meta or if it's really easily provable (e.g. you always vote self in RVS). Otherwise, it does nothing for me.

Also it means you're aware of said meta and can manipulate it.

Foilist already said haylen was town that game iirc.

[Faraday]

Hey, how's that analysis post coming Haylen?

[Faraday]

Haylen has failed to amuse me.

She can die now.

[Faraday]

oh, and of course I overlooked the possibility that haylen IS SK. It's a pretty common SK play.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 50#1931550

or mafia.

[Faraday]

^ she was scum that game.

[Faraday]

Do you think it's optimal play to stress people out so much they dont want to post?

this is a horrible reason not to post. has it been your excuse for the whole game then?

[Faraday]

I like reading games I'm not involved in.

And what WIFOM? I don't believe your claim.

[Faraday]

haylen your wiki is also nicely formatted

[Faraday]

oh yeah. Way to jump on the bandwagon.
How sure are you that I am false claiming.

If i were to kill anyone tonight, it would be either CrueKnight, Cruety or WKD.

Fuck off. My name isn't Hayden. Carry on calling me that and i'll policy kill you tonight.

why those 3?

[Faraday]

Could you give a couple of sentences on why you're suspicious of those 3?

[Faraday]

Also, it is extremely bad play to lynch the claimed powerrole on Day One.

I assume you've never lynched scum on Day 1 then, if you follow this advice?

[Faraday]

I told you, i screwed up. Sorry town. I've done this a lot recently. Btw, the people who accused me of lying about my reasons for not posting are now on my grudge kill list. Yay.

lol lists.

[Faraday]

Scum arent powerroles. Scum are scum. End of.

My point

---------

Your head.


^that signifies it went over your head. I'm clever like that.

And you and Cruelty are at the top of my list. With TI. You were worse than those guys from Cr3t1n's.

COOL STORY, BRO. btw thnx 4 the lovely contribution to the game.

[Faraday]

^^sarcasm in referring to your contribution.

[Faraday]

Obviously you never lynch a claimed power-role, just b/c they claim a power role means you'll never lynch scum day 1 as they'll claim a power role.


WAS MY POINT. Also grudge kills are retarded and you should feel bad for even thinking about them.

Anyway apparently you've been hammered. Let's see what ya flip.

[Faraday]

I didn't say you sucked, I said grudge kills are retarded.

Lrn2read.


Also I'm offended by you telling me to die in a fire, for all you know I could have been burned in a fire as a child and suffer nightmares over it. Classy.

[Faraday]

I didn't accuse you of lying about your reasons at all, as far as I know (quotes plz, I'll apologise if I have). But you're quite clearly around now, and have been able to post one liners for the past day or 2.


What's the correct attitude? Telling people to fuck off when they mis-spell your name and telling players to die in a fire. Oh golly, I'll take that on board.

[Faraday]

Oh well, you know that state of mind where townie just give up after being attacked from all sides. Take that into account. Nothing I said would have helped in the slightest.

I know what you mean, but that's still not a great attitude imo. Might as well try.

The correct attitude is to not talk about things that you dont understand and to not piss off other players for the hell of it.

I wasn't trying to piss you off, not

really

[Faraday]

vote torquez

need to re-read the thread a bit but from memory he was worse than useless yesterday '-.-' iirc.

but i'm off to watch New Moon now (LOL I'M SO GAY) so yeh, that'll be tomorrow.

[Faraday]

l/a the next few days, sorry have an essay to do that's worth 25% of my final grade, so i'll have to do that. this game will be my priority when i come back.

V/LA is noted.

[Faraday]

I don't really think Furry is that scummy for defending the lynch, before it happened. I mean it's something I tend to do as scum, declare the wagon bad or w/e but I dunno he/she feels fairly geuine to me in the defense.

Torquez needs to post something too, he's lurking like a motherfucka' (Note I've not statistical evidence to suggest motherfucka's lurk)

[Faraday]

Wait I see I've missed a post from him.

Why do you think that's scummy Torq? I mean it's a soft claim of not being a mason with Furry, as far as I know. hardly narrows down posibillities too much.

You say it's not damning, but is it even scummy?

[Faraday]

sorry guys exams atm. I'll get here ASAP and give the thread a good read.

[Faraday]

Malpa's playing like he did in my modded game where he was scum, little activity, doing nothing etc. Guess I need to see a game where he was town to see if this is standard behaviour for him though.

Is the case on him anything apart from his VI'ness?

Don't see the case on Furry at all, apart from defending the lynch she's been fairly town, although I think judging by the sheer number of inactives/badness it'd not be terribly hard to look town if you post enough and it makes some sense. Similar read on cruelty atm.

[Faraday]

Malpa's playing like he did in my modded game where he was scum, little activity, doing nothing etc.

Okay early thoughts.

LURKERS = BAD. Malpascp should have been lynched with a fucking vengeance IMO.

well?

My vote is currently on one of them [lurker], in Torquez/his replacement. Since that seems to be going no where despite his utter lack of contribution..

And yeh, my face was a picture when I saw him in this game

Unvote Vote Malpascp

Why you voted malpascp for doing something that a townie did that we lynched.

Is this fucking serious? So b/c ONE townie does it, it means it's not scummy? Really Wicked? Oh god this is unbelievably bad.

[

[Faraday]

My vote is currently on one of them [lurker], in Torquez/his replacement.

Was Torquez a lurker? I'm not quite sure I understand this sentence.

Yes. He was. Active lurking which is worse.

[Faraday]

The only game where he's flipped town that I can see is Large Normal 92, modded by jebus, which he replaced in to. It's not exactly illuminating as he has like 10 posts in it

He was scum in Lovers mafia , Out in The Wilde. Everything else is on-going and can't be mentioned.

And yeh, Idk I tend to find subtelty over-rated.

[Faraday]

I'm still here, just watching, waiting.

Hey, give your thoughts on the game ya LURKER.

you've had 3 useless posts so far, fix that plz.

[Faraday]

/avoiding prod. tomorrow. was studying today ugh. so yeh.

[Faraday]

This game is a bit all over the place. We have 3 similar sized small wagons and then 3 other people not voting. Why are you not voting at this stage of the game?

[Faraday]

Is this fucking serious? So b/c ONE townie does it, it means it's not scummy? Really Wicked? Oh god this is unbelievably bad.

Lurking/not contributing is a stupid reason to lynch a player for in general anyway. How is that opinion "unbelievably bad"?

THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID. Just b/c a town person does something scummy and flips scum does not invalidate the scum tell. To suggest it does is bad. For example Active Lurking. Haylen was guilty of it. It is scummy, just because Haylen flipped town doesn't mean I won't think it's scummy. There's no reason for town to lurk, they shouldn't be afraid to contribute, whereas lurking is beneficial for scum.

[Faraday]

Scott Brosius was an odd kill choice btw. Not sure if it makes CrueKnight more likely to be scum, probably slightly does I think. Sure it's WIFOM but meh, doesn't mean it's entirely useless to speculate on.

I like Mike's entry to the game too.

[Faraday]

I really don't like the Wicked wagon. I can't explain it but his posting at least gives me the opinion that he's at the very least trying to find scum, more than can be said for Malpascp and CrueKnight too I think.

[Faraday]

Faraday, if malpascp's behavior is scummy enough to vote for him, then why not vote dana or cades?

I've only got one vote.

[Faraday]

"]

Faraday, if malpascp's behavior is scummy enough to vote for him, then why not vote dana or cades?

I've only got one vote.

Why did you choose malpascp then? You are voting him for not contributing, but cades is guiltier when it comes to contributing. I don't understand at all.

I was sort of hoping maybe he'd contribute, or that he was working on something. Malpa's had all game to do that.

But erm, yeah.

Unvote Vote Cades.

Contribute and/or die, please.

[Faraday]

Looking through the thread I noticed:

Scott Brosius was an odd kill choice btw. Not sure if it makes CrueKnight more likely to be scum, probably slightly does I think. Sure it's WIFOM but meh, doesn't mean it's entirely useless to speculate on.

Why is this? Why does it all point to me all of a sudden because Scott died?

Scum want to kill people who are suspicious of them, iirc he was voting you @ the end of the day.

[Faraday]

@SolemnJ:

Nope, unfortunately I don't have any special role, just a vanilla townie.

?????? why did you claim.

[Faraday]

Hm...I believe kunk now. Sigh.

I don't like any of these. Does that mean I should vote cades?

vote cades

I suppose lynching him is better than lynching town.

wut. why do you believe the vanilla claim??

[Faraday]

SolemnJ are you scum?

[Faraday]

not liking solemnj lately ftr. feels off.

i'm happy w/ wicked or cades being lynched. I'll switch to avoid a NL obv. Against a wicked lynch as I think he's town.

[Faraday]

no no i don't.


erm but yeah I meant kunkstar/malpa obviously.

[Faraday]

If we have 4 scum we should mass claim. Hmm having seen lovers + a vig tho I'm not sure if we're looking at 4 scum at all.


I want to vote SolemnJ. I don't like him at all around deadline believing a vanilla claim for no reason etc, the wicked lynch was bad. Gonna have to go back, might look at the BW analysis even tho it's not usually v helpful to me.

We need cades etc to contribute, in all honesty he should have been lynched yesterday.

Be back w/ more later probably.

[Faraday]

hey cades how about some fucking content? I see you posting *something* in other games, don't ignore this game.

[Faraday]

Why not? You've had nothing to say all game.

[Faraday]

Well 3 scum in a 12 player game is the usual so 4 could theoretically be balanced here, but that seems rather unlikely due to the town having a lover pair and vigilante.

[Faraday]

Thought it was obvious from the above post but 3.

[Faraday]

Given what we know I'd much rather devour a late bandwagoner on the wicked lynch rather than a useless lurker, but then again even lurkers can be scum.

Why?

I still am not a huge cades lurker-lynch fan. If we are lurker lynching it really should be dana, even though the SJ lynch sure still looks better to it then me. Once dana and SJ answer my questions I will have thoughts up on the matter of which one of them should be getting the axe (hint its probably SJ).

If we were going to lurker lynch it probably should have been yesterday instead of the move to wicked.

[Faraday]

]

I believed the vanilla claim because I saw that dana had been subbed in, and I felt like believing her. I like to think I can figure out a person's role by the way they post, in the categories: Cop, Doc, Vanilla. I've already narrowed down the people I think are Cop. And Dana's story fit for being a vanilla.

I suppose she could be scum, but I'm still leaning towards her claim being true.

Yeah I call bullshit. I don't see how you can believe a vanilla is a vanilla from the claim alone. I get the whole thinking she's not a power role but it doesn't stop her from being scum. Also the premature claim was bad.

[Faraday]

The problem with this game is there seems to be too many active lurkers. The extended random voting stage for 12334322 pages at the start was bad too. Ugh.

What does everyone think of a mass claim or is it best to hold off for another day?

[Faraday]

i'm fuckin drunk so i'll read and post and stuff tomorrow whenever i manage to wake up haha

[Faraday]

i'm fuckin drunk so i'll read and post and stuff tomorrow whenever i manage to wake up haha

[Faraday]

sorry mod^

[Faraday]

Okay, I must say that Sir Chris looks great everytime he posts. I still think malpascp was worthy of a vote, so I'm going to go after kunkstar. But SolemnJ's reaction to the vanilla claim was superscummy and I don't like the massclaim suggestion by Faraday. If anything, we should No-Lynch to get an odd number of players and THEN role claim.

vote: kunkstar

I've given up on trying to read this game. There's so much fluff too many players and replacements. Not to mention Wicked's posts, which alone would have taken days to sift through. So, this is all I have.

What don't you like about the mass claim suggestion? My thinking was it could possibly clear one or 2 players at least, thus narrowing the pool of people we want to lynch.

I tend to think unless we've a couple of very strong power roles out there that we're dealing with 3 mafia.

[Faraday]

Woosh. Okay this is my only active game atm, (I.e. the rest are in night) so I'm going to have a read back today.


Sir Chris you seem to be playing very differently in this game than another game of yours, do you play differently every game or is there a reason for your difference in playstyle this game?

SolemnJ is still probably my top suspect and apparently a few others' top suspect too.
Could the other people not voting give their top suspect please?

[Faraday]

Due to her being horificially fucking scummy, iirc.


Any other questions, feel free to ask.

[Faraday]

I think don if you skim a few people in iso what you'll notice more than anything is a general lack of content more than anything else.

I don't see the point in looking at your predecessor, as you can't explain his actions, though he has provided content it's been fairly questionable.

[Faraday]

be a bit busy for the next day or 2, moving back to uni etc.

try not to, idk, do anything stupid while i'm gone.

[Faraday]

Is anyone against the SJ/DJ lynch at this point? Im a little surprised and concerned that there has been zero attempt to derail or move this wagon. The game is moving slow, but I think if this was a scum wagon, there would be something happening to of stopped it from getting to a lynch, as opposed to letting it drift to a deadline one like it is. That said I really dont like a SC/follist lynch. I had a neutralish read on that slot that has progressed to a slight town one.

Not against it but I'm liking don quite a lot atm actually.
The wagon seems to have sort of come out of no-where too. I mean I don't really like SolemnJ's latter play but he looks okay early and Dj's a cool player and he seems to be trying.


being honest i'm finding it hard to get my head around this game, there's been too many replacements which demoralises the time and everyone seems to be posting just enough to get by.

i'm going to give a read over the last few pages and see what i think before putting downa vote. i'm tempted to just go with my gut, in all honesty and do what that tells me as i can't seem to find much else via re-reading. let's see anyway

[Faraday]

man the site is being too slow to post/do anything right now, i'll have to wait till tomorrow.

[Faraday]

man this site is being too slow to post/do anything right now, i'll have to wait till tomorrow.

[Faraday]

Is anyone against the SJ/DJ lynch at this point? Im a little surprised and concerned that there has been zero attempt to derail or move this wagon. The game is moving slow, but I think if this was a scum wagon, there would be something happening to of stopped it from getting to a lynch, as opposed to letting it drift to a deadline one like it is. That said I really dont like a SC/follist lynch. I had a neutralish read on that slot that has progressed to a slight town one.

Not against it but I'm liking don quite a lot atm actually.
The wagon seems to have sort of come out of no-where too. I mean I don't really like SolemnJ's latter play but he looks okay early and Dj's a cool player and he seems to be trying.

Was looking for a "Would not lynch, would lynch at deadline or would lynch without deadline". Looks like the second one am I right?

i'm going to give a read over the last few pages and see what i think before putting downa vote. i'm tempted to just go with my gut, in all honesty and do what that tells me as i can't seem to find much else via re-reading. let's see anyway

Whats your gut? I really cant recall it of the top of my head here. (maybe dana?)

yeah the second one, sorry didn't see that.

my gut atm says sir chris.
i don't like the way he seems to be applying how he plays as a scumtell to cruelty and he feels like he's trying to buddy up to dj to get him to shift his vote

also applying putting the burden on not having caught scum on someone is quite frankly ridiculous.

i'm going to try and read back a bit more and stuff but idk:/ i feel very apathic towards the whole thing atm. it's not even like the scum would have had to play a good game up to now as in reality the first lynch was on someone who was active lurking to the extreme and then didn't provide any content and the second one was on wicked who'd has suspicioun on him all game, it's mostly due to his playstyle too, and even that was a deadline lynch which imo usually says a lot in that their often rushed.

still we can but endeavour to try better.

[Faraday]

I think you are town, ironic that the person you think is scum is now going to have to defend you while you try to kill me
.

man i really hate this line and i can't put my finger on why it just..seems so off to me.

[Faraday]

maybe you dislike irony.

nah i've figured it out, it makes it sound like you're ready to white knight the person you were voting for a little while ago based on very little.

have you any complete games, actually I can check that myself so never mind.

[Faraday]

Also I like how the winds are starting to sway my way a little, makes me a bit more confident that cruelty is scum. Mostly because he took the one line I said about him that was "what" worthy out of context and ignored the rest. Is that how your defense is going to be? Cherrypicking one line out of a couple of posts? That's cool, I guess.

the winds are starting to sway? um? Don Johnson voted you and I said I think you're scum based on gut. It's hardly like you've been quickwagoned to L-1.
where were you taken out of context?

As for Cruelty, he is reminding me of scum me. He is really good with words and seems highly intelligent. Which makes me question why we have not caught scum yet. As Furry pointed out, this current lynch is not ruffling any feathers, that's not good

that's all you seemed to have said for your vote switch, was there anything else?

Also I like how it is buddying to go from lynching someone to thinking "no, probably shouldn't."

this is slightly more than 'no probably shouldn't'

Y

eah, I don't think scum on the brink of death usually leaves in a huff. I think you are just bad. Also I didn't exactly build a case on you by your sig, I just made a comment based on it. Also I have been playing mafia for eight years, I know the term WIFOM. The more you explain yourself the more I think you are just horribly mistaken town. It could be good acting though. ... Nah, I don't think so. I just think you believe you have a scum caught and you are really annoyed that you aren't getting traction. I think you are town, ironic that the person you think is scum is now going to have to defend you while you try to kill me.

you also seem to be using b/c his case is crap (in your opinion) he can't be scum? that's almost certainly one of the worst reasons i've ever seen for removing a vote from someone. surely someone coming at you with crap attacks aren't more likely to be town, why do you think he is?
also by stating you're going to have to defend him it gives off a stronger town vive (i.e. you fairly strongly think he's town) than what you just said

That's probably the worst buddying ever. If I was scum (I know everyone hates that phrase and the following is obv wifom) I'd have just stuck to stabbing him repeatedly and it would have probably worked out if he was town. You will find that when scum is doing something well there is little reason to change it. Especially when I could have just brought up the fact that he was little more than counter voting me, there was no reason for a scum sir chris to be so threatened by DJ's vote that he would have to back off of him.

it's completely wifom and it's not even wifom I can buy for hypo scum you. you seem to be trying to placate dj (asking him why he's focused on you over cruelty for example) and maybe you think you can find an easier target to lynch, as he's obviously not gonna go down quietly here. since it's not lylo you still have another day to deal with obviously.


I agree about the second wind thing too tho. I find myself enthused more by the game.

Also I just like how faraday's gut points to me. Why is that? I think I mentioned it but what is really buddybuddy about my behavior. I don't follow your logic, and I don't think you have much logic to that. So I would like for you to explain, in vivid detail, what your gut is saying about me please.

you don't like it just because it points to you or just b/c it's gut?
if I had LOGIC the case wouldn't be basedf on gut. and i'm trying to explain myself in this post what about your behaviour i don't like. the fact there's very little to go on (IMO) makes it very difficult.

i'm actually going to re-read you now anyway.

(actually doing it this game while i'm still enjoying the game)

[Faraday]

Vote: Wicked

Maybe I am just seeing things, as I am not very aware of different playstyles and how people address situations differently here but I have this phrase I use called "deep thinking" which I always view as a town tell: It is the line of reasoning and logic that seems too genuine and thought over to be scum. Now, of course, scum can fake this if they are good enough, but the absence of such thoughts over many, many posts is worrisome. Much of Wicked's supposed content has been very thin or simply a redirecting question back at someone else. This is very scummy, and easily worth my vote.

okay i can see why someone who hasn't played with wicked before could see this.

here you say the presence of deep thinking to be a town tell, I assume the absence of it then is a scum tell judging from your vote at the end?

Also of note I will say that SolemnJ looks bad in my eyes regardless of what Wicked is. It is either defending a scumbuddy or buddying a town member, but that post looks bad considering the worth of Wicked's posts seem to be very thin.

that seems..bad. why not vote solemnj if you think he's scum regardless?

I still feel worse about wicked, like, much worse about Wicked. Like if I was able to shoot one player dead this very second it would be wicked, their posts are really just light. It is of course possible this is just how wicked plays, and if so, that can't be helped.

if you think it might be a playstyle shouldn't you at least check it out to see if it is?

Going through your posts on Haylen I see your through process as honest, since there was a posibillity she was a SK (claimed vig etc) then it's possible you could do this as mafia but there's nothing too bad there, although you had kinda ignored haylen a bit before that, though I'd not see a reason for scum you to do that..so fair enough.

I find it amusing wicked FoSes someone who voted him yesterday and then votes for the guy who voted him today.

Man OMGUS is in general a rather shitty tell in my experience. Do you find it useful or was there any point to this post? Isn't it possible he finds you suspicious, or did?

How about instead of just voting for the guy not posting we vote for the person who has been around and is actively scummy. That makes sense to me, thanks.

Cmon you can't tell me malpa posted anything substantial.
I also thought I had a slight tell that he might be more inactive or likely to replace as scum, but I'm not sure if that's true. He replaced out of my game citing a lack of access for a bit, but I thought I saw him posting around that time so it's possible he just doesn't want to drag his team-mates down as scum. I've learned he's inactive as either alignment for sure though (3 posts over 2 game days in one of his games )

Man, I really don't like this wagon on Kunkstar, especially because claiming early is something I do all the time myself if I feel it is needed or if it doesn't hurt much. Policy lynching at this juncture seems dumb.

Ugh I really disagree with this. As a vanilla fake claim your ONLY option is to claim early and hope the wagon goes away, a vanilla claim at L-1 gets you lynched...in pretty much every game I've ever played.

Also the fact he claimed early makes me more suspicious of kunkstar.

SolemnJ's rolefishing was noted their too, I'd slightlyu forgotten that, I found it quite scummy at the time especially since Kunk appears a new(er) player. Not a n00b, just new

If you are on cades or kunk I think you are really making a grave mistake or are very, very scummy. Honestly, wicked has done nothing to deserve to live at this point and the case on both kunk and cades is a complete joke.

Early vanilla claim isn't a scum-tell.

Also I'd imagine if you are scum one of these but not both are your scumbuddy.

Basically my big problem with this lynch is that we aren't learning anything from it,.

Please tell me what we learned from the wicked lynch that we wouldn't have learned from a kunk/cades lynch?
Or more specifically what vital info was gained now that wicked is town? You already said you didn't like his style so couldn't you as town see other wagoners saying the same, thus idk how you can pick scum off the wagon, really. (that makes sense in my own head)

However then I looked back and realized that wicked (duh), faraday, and dana have looked really bad today in their attempt to get cades lynched, so I think they are all more scummy than you.

Cades hasn't even flipped, how can you assert the wagon is scummy? I hate lurking and think it's very scummy to lurk in a game. not gonna go into theoretical reasons as to WHY as it has no place her but suffice to say i don't like this.

what had given you a town read on cades @ this point? Also you said (I clipped the quote) you found it unlikely all three of us is town, do you still think that?

that's all the stuff before day 3. i'm trying to get more of a read on you so it'd be helpful if you could take the time to answer/comment on some of this. i'll probably do this with a few other players too, as i find myself having a lack of reads or at least any reasoning behind reads which is annoying.

[Faraday]

I find unpromted vanilla tells to be a scum tell, forgot a word.

I've said this before in other games too, hell look @ pick your power which just ended I thought dramonic claiming vanilla even when it was likely he was (due to the role draft system) was scummy, but yeh. I'll read that a bit more later, playing GTA atm.

[Faraday]

one guy is on holiday @ don and that's it. everyone else should be around. game has been fucked by replacements, feel bad for the mod but he's done a pretty excellent job getting replacements imo.

kunk claimed early, but it felt somewhat like a trap from your predecessor. idk, it looks slightly retarded in all honesty (the whole thing that is) let me get it.

[Faraday]

page 29, posts 711/712.

[Faraday]

Mike what do you think of Dj (and the guy he replaced)?

[Faraday]

I replaced into a game today so I spent my time catching up on that. Will catch up on this tomorrow/later.

[Faraday]

Kirbo's vote on Sir Chris is fairly bad. Not really for the subject of hus vote but b/c of his reasons for giving it. Idk it's like he's trying to manufacture some suspiciouns.

Overdefensiveness isn't a scum-tell, I agree with Furry here in that it's a very bad reason to suspect someone, town have as much reason to be defensive as scum, heck to me it can be a town tell at times.

Heliograph comparing himself to a turtle is very hilarious.

[Faraday]

Vote Heliograph

Re-read Katniss. I in my initial post said I thought she was scummy but seemed earnest, I think I was giving too much weight to the fact she/he was new to the game. She was very hesitant to ruffle any feathers it seemed and overly cautious about being perceived as scummy. Reluctance to vote is probably a slight scum tell in my book too.

We then have cades. Cades lurked. Look @ Killers Mafia 2 where cades was town and was well able to provide content when needed. Not sure how

good

said content is but that's beside the point.

Helio has continued along the same lolol sort of path with very little posting.

I'm pretty much going through every alive player and gonna see who I like and dislike I think.

[Faraday]

A lot of things sir chris seems to find scummy are things I consider null. I mean being sure of your vote is no way an alignment tell. Look at Xyl/Rofl they seem to be always sure, and even in general being overconfident in a vote is certainly not a scum tell.

I like Furry's piece on Torque a bit better, though I do tend to think excessive smiley usage can be a scum tell in certain situations (:P). I think his lack of comment on Haylen is a big thing though.

[Faraday]

I like Furry's piece on Torque a bit better,...I think his lack of comment on Haylen is a big thing though.

Cool.

Want to wagon him?

Nah, I like my heliograph vote better at the moment by a little bit.

We've 2 days till deadline. ANYONE NOT VOTING NEEDS TO PUT A VOTE DOWN. Mike and Kunkstar's vote seem to be doing very little too, so I'd suggest they switch to one of the 2-man wagons at least, unless they strongly oppose them.

[Faraday]

Kirbo should probably claim at next convenience.

[Faraday]

Cmon people switch to helio. There's no earthly WAY scummkirbo claims VT in this scenario as far as I'm concerned. Helio is a much better lynch here, look at the way he hopped on the wagon quickly.

I also see a slight furry/helio connection. I remember thinking there was some chance of furry coaching katniss slightly (need to look back to substansiate this in all honesty) but I'm not happy with this lynch at all.

Kirbo switch to Helio!

[Faraday]

Here's my problem at the moment: I think Kirbyoshi is scum

That's not a problem by itself.

The problem is the votes on him are terrible, just, absolutely terrible. Post 1025 makes me want to facepalm.

Also my arguments have been fantastic, I am very offended that someone who is playing as poor as you has the gall to call my points "poor." Yes, confidence secures lynches when reason cannot - they are usually called mislynches.

Wait you don't seem to be nervous at all, in fact you seem very confident in the lynch. Now correct me if I'm wrong but this is one of the points you're using as a scum tell, it doesn't seem to jive as far as I'm concerned.

[Faraday]

funny how everyone thinks im scum IF player X is scum.

why? it's hardly surprising. Any good scum player in this particular game won't have commited much in the way of scum tells and I tend to think the scum probably have at least one good player. Thus it's natural for other people's alignment flips to influence yours.

[Faraday]

Still worried a bit over this. I dont like how no one is trying to stop the lynch, especially the wagons that only have two people, double especially the ones who are saying they dont like the lynch.

Kirby not vote moving really is making me uncomfortable against this wagon, as I really see no reason for scum to just roll over and die in this siutation.

Switch your vote to helio?

[Faraday]

I suppose it's too late to ask for a deadline extension??

Mod any chance of a deadline extension due to the site making it difficult to access MS for the last few days?

[Faraday]

You know what is weird? You call me confident while quoting a post that lists a worry I have for the lynch I am currently on. I am unsure how you can read my post which says "the votes have been terrible on him" and think I am in the "100% wowmg easy lynch" range. Do you even read my posts?

how can you call your arguments fantastic and not be confident. maybe you're just trying to convince yourself your points are fantastic.

People aren't wagoning me because it is painfully obvious that I a not scum

kinda want to vote you for this sentence alone but i think you're just being delusional as opposed to scummy with it.

[Faraday]

Anyway thoughts on everyone.

CrueKnight - doesn't take a stance on alignment
Furry - ...overexagerates amount of people calling furry scum and uses him town as a basis for furry town, lolwat.
cruelty - leans town but may be a master plan.
Sir Chris
kunkstar7 - no alignment stance
Faraday - he's scared of me????
don_johnson - town b/c of a horrible tell.
Kirbyoshi - confidence and badness = scum.
mikeburnfire - no stance on alignment
Heilograph -funny comment but no stance on alignment

fix'd for my own benefit

basically sums up your post I mean i'm all for you giving opinion on players if you're actually ya know going to give your opinion but it seems mostly filler.

[Faraday]

You... are really annoying.

Not every thought has to be a clear statement on stance.

Saying what is or is not a tell without knowing alignment is also bad.

You are not nearly as good as you think you are, Faraday.

WELL LIKE THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

[Faraday]

2 of the people leading the kirbo wagon are now significantly less confident. The opther 3 on it just jumped on the bandwagon, this is a horrible lynch. Seriously.

[Faraday]

1. His first contributing post of the game is not him contributing. He points out that my statement is WIFOM, which I had already conceded, and then says everything against me makes "perfect sense." I believe the term active lurking was brought up, and I believe this post is an example of it. It appears to contribute to the discussion, but in fact it has no value at all. He did three things in that post: Agree with everything against me without putting it into his own words, thoughts, or giving reasoning as to why it looked good; he then proceeds to call a statement WIFOM when I had already stated that I was aware it was WIFOM and was merely posting it to give my thoughts not a defense of myself (which he seems to try to imply I was doing in that very same post) and lastly he voted me, and given the thin support for his vote of me I thought it was a badly placed vote with no actual reasoning of his own behind it.

This case could easily be applied to 2 or 3 other people in the game. I'm ignoring your second point as it's not something i'd ever consider a scum tell in any context. With that being said why is kirbo doing this more scummy than others?

[Faraday]

Are you going to be around up to deadline btw, or on before it? My internet is very unstable (if I can get past 11 GMT then i'll be fine but that's not 100% guaranteed)

[Faraday]

Yeah, helio for instance has done a number of things in that paragraph wouldn't you say.

[Faraday]

Um... I will be on around it, I have a small shift later tonight but I'll be on in plenty of time. I always try to be around so I can discuss my thoughts. Honestly I am more than a little confused and I am trying to sort out my thoughts. I think the main problem here is we are working off a different meta in general. I have played one game on this site and about 100 off of it, we come from different communities and I am still playing with an old playbook.

Eh, I've played far more games off site than on too. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way you play I'm just not convinced everything you point out is scummy.

[Faraday]

Well, the fun thing about scum tells is they are different for every person. I have not come across a single scum tell, even some of the best ones, that have always been correct. I kind of try to look at it in terms of a puzzle. For Kirbyoshi, to me, it made no sense for someone in their first post to sound so supremely confident to me. Wagon looks terrible, but I still maintain that there was a logical disconnect between the tone of that voice and what should have been present.

/theory most scumtells are bullshit, everything depends on context etc etc. general overall feel of the posts/tone is much more reliable.

anyway off for a bit to watch bones, i'll be back in a while/well before deadline unless i die or something, so yeah.

[Faraday]

We've 2 days till deadline. ANYONE NOT VOTING NEEDS TO PUT A VOTE DOWN. Mike and Kunkstar's vote seem to be doing very little too, so I'd suggest they switch to one of the 2-man wagons at least, unless they strongly oppose them.

2 of the people leading the kirbo wagon are now significantly less confident. The opther 3 on it just jumped on the bandwagon, this is a horrible lynch. Seriously.

Awesome grandstanding, scum.

unvote, vote Faraday

Yeah those points are clearly not mutually exclusive. If the 2 people actually ya know confident in the wagon are no longer confident in it, then how can it be a good wagon?

[Faraday]

So, does no one want to post in this game, or what? If not, why did we ask for an extension?

So you'd not be lynched for no reason obv

And it was the weekend so that explains the lack of posting somewhat.

I'm very happy with the helio lynch at the moment.

[Faraday]

I don't think you can say it would have be for no reason. Otherwise Kirby wouldn't have been in the position he was. The reason he picked up so much was it was deadline, and we tried to prevent a no-lynch.

Summarise the case on him in a few short sentences plz

Woah long damn extension. 1 week. But what the heck, I have no idea who to lynch. We don't have enough imo. But my mind is blank right now. I have so much going on irl. SO I will post more once rested. :p

Along with this, Mike's and Heilo's votes were the worst of the bunch on Kirby. (Yes I do realize I'm there in third, at least in my view. ) Since there won't be anything on CK today, I'll go with a Heilo lynch, not going to vote yet though.

Besides revealing Heilo's alignment, do any of you feel that this lynch will provide any information besides that, such as other player's alignments or such?

Loooooooooooads. For instance I've noted you seem more reluctant about this wagon than the Kirb one and perhaps are even setting up a crueknight one? I'd say that'd be fairly damning if Helio was to flip scum.

I'm not sure if Mike has commented on this either? He's posted a vote on me and I've explained I didn't say/do what he thought I had yet his vote is still there, of course it's possible he finds me independantly scummy of that but I haven't seen him mention my name before this (apart from the mass claim) which he later agreed with.

I'd say Cruelty would be quite likely to not be scum w/ helio.

If helio was to flip town at this moment then I'd have to re-evaluate things obviously.

Anyway not lynching b/c it might not provide information is quite bad a reason to me.

[Faraday]

Ck quote shouldn't be in the above, fail edit etc.

[Faraday]

I'm going to leave this to Sir Chris. It was his original wagon, and he had his reasons for starting it. I can't say that my joining the wagon was really reasonable. After being asked to choose a wagon for deadline, Kirby's was the one the stood out to me as the best based. The following part of his wagon was just everyone jumping on.

No. I want

you

to do it. It's hardly an unreasonable request either.

[Faraday]

I'd like the turtle to come and claim.

[Faraday]

This was an awful game for me and I apologise to everyone involved.

Ugh. Yeah. Idk what else to say.

Oh god at least mapascp wasn't scum. If he'd managed to lurk/replace out to 'victory' again then idk what i'd have done.

Furry played well. Tbh the fact he was still alive probably would have made me suspicious alone.

MME would have been my choice for the lynch in LYLO but the scum would have definitely won anyway. Bleh.

Modding/replacements were very well done. If you ever need a replacement again feel free to give me a shout, I liked the set-up. I'd be pissed off with the number of replacements as a mod, as it really affects the flow of the game.

Tbh losing The Inquisition and Scott (who were obv obv town) hurt a lot too.

Good player list (at the end) too. Maybe we'll have a re-match some time?

[Faraday]

CHILLAX pplz.

I know I could have been a bit of a prick during the game, but eh, I find it good for reactions sometimes. No offense caused to anyone I hope.

I felt really bad about the Haylen lynch after she made that post about her town play :/.