NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[SGRaaize]

/confirm

[SGRaaize]

Also, will be back in some hours

[SGRaaize]

lol, Super Smash Bros Fan, I wonder why you are very tense, heh

[SGRaaize]

I don't like the whole list idea, for two reasons:

1) I don't care about your list, its good to show something suspicious someone may have said, but aside from that, its all pointless, a big list is way overkill

2) It hardly represents every other guy's thoughts, so even if it was a good idea, it would be (rightly) ignored

[SGRaaize]

The more Parama talks, the more I want to rescind my initial Town read on him and/or smack him through the Internet.

SSBF is most likely naive VI-Town. Emphasis on all of naive, VI, and Town.

I don't know if Chronopie is

trying

to look scummy, or if this is just normal, but stuff like 131 makes me twitch.
My favorite scumhunting tool told me "

Prediction hazy, ask again

".

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all

on top of

lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

Vote: vezopiraka

(L-11)

I was only curious about SSBF being very tense, I don't actually think he's scummy, but I definitely have an eye on him

[SGRaaize]

I suspect Paramara for obvious reasons
Then, in what seems to be an overlooked suspicion, I suspect Lowell:

vote parama

. WINCON.

I love early bandwagons, but not SSBF. Games need one or two overeager go-getters early on.

SSBF is idiot town, a Lowell like character (OOOOOHHH BURNNNNNEDD). Quick wagon is super scummy.

Vote: Dr Robotnik

Haha. He wishes. After all, look how hard this guy tries and still is getting lynched. I haven't done nearly as much and am basically unlynchable.

[SGRaaize]

I suspect Paramara for obvious reasons
Then, in what seems to be an overlooked suspicion, I suspect Lowell:

Which "obvious reasons" are those?
Why is Lowell scummy?

First Question: Seriously?
Second Question: The quoted posts are scummy, IMO

[SGRaaize]

Unvote

I like foilist13's posts on the matter of vezopiraka and daniel. 300 brings up an interesting point, but I don't think it applies in this case -- to be blunt, I do not feel daniel thought things through anywhere near as far as that. It also does not seem likely that people in a scumteam would be accusing each other (except to bus... but it would be Seraphim doing that, not vezopiraka). For now, I believe Seraphim's claim.

Leafsnail's ISO looks fine to me.

I was expecting vezopiraka's attack on LMP to be an attempt to push a lynch for his main suspect. This version doesn't work if LMP has some sort of information on vezopiraka, though.

SGRaaize's second post looks very unusual to me. He's on the fence with SSBF, `curious' about the matter but not doing any questioning. He's also not been too clear about accusing Parama and Lowell.

Vote: SGRaaize

I simply found SSBF way too tense, I don't suspect him lol

Parama has been completely insane and weird in his arguments against SSBF, trying to force a lynch somehow, very scummy IMO

And regarding Lowell, saying that he's unlynchable is pretty scummy as far as I'm aware, not even sure why I needed to explain that (maybe a sarcasm I missed?)

Now, to add to my suspicious lynch are both guys on the Mason group aside from Serapym, damn, they're both suspect as hell, maybe they're both Werewolves, lol

[SGRaaize]

I think the current Wagon on DrRobotnik is useless, I don't find him suspicious at all compared to the guys inside the supposed mason group aside from Seraphim

Vote: Daniel94581

[SGRaaize]

I think the current Wagon on DrRobotnik is useless, I don't find him suspicious at all

compared to the guys inside the supposed mason group aside from Seraphim

Vote: Daniel94581

Bolded: Why? (or rather, what do you think of the accusations against him?)
@daniel vote: Why daniel over vezo?

I think the Dr. Robotnik wagon is actually pretty awesome.

@Dry-fit

, who on the wagon is suspicious?

I don't disagree with Lowell accusing Sevis tbh. I keep getting the impression of an experienced player holding way way way back.

Because he's getting lynched because of his suspicions on two guys of the Mason group...

And about Daniel over Vezo, they're both equally suspicious, IMO

[SGRaaize]

Well, I'm honoured to be considered an experienced player, but this really is confusing me rather horribly. I meant that I was trying to keep up a minimal number of posts because for one, I'm quite happy to read threads while they're moving and only post when I have nothing more to read, and, more importantly, I'm currently swamped with schoolwork, so I'm not checking this 24/7 as I normally would.

I don't like Dry-fit's comment on LMP -- it's as if the general opinion on LMP is that he's town, while this clearly isn't the case. In general, the aggressiveness against LMP doesn't look too good.
I'm curious about LMP's explanation of vezo's actions. He seems to be aware that vezo can know his alignment and he can know vezo's, does not feel like vezo is scum, and none the less, vezo is attacking him. I'm currently leaning towards a pair of lovers, as a mason in two groups seems unlikely. Vezo also claimed either Seraphim or daniel are scum: I'm getting the impression he feels that he needs to get rid of allies. Hm. Is he afraid that the extra opportunities to chat will give extra possibilities for him to make a scumslip?
SGRaaize's post looks strange, too. He's not taking into account that daniel's slips could be related to his (highly likely) role of mason. On the other hand, he is fully acknowledging their mason status, and brings it up at every opportunity, as if it had anything to do with his reasons for wanting to lynch them.
Reading ISOs, I'm getting the feeling the mason group is receiving far too much attention. Dr. Robotnik is, indeed, rather inactive, but I don't think I want to see him lynched. Chronopie and Midnight have hardly given all that much info, either. I can see the point in pressuring him to participate, though.
I'd like to hear more from pman.

If you think I could do more, please do suggest, but I think you are overestimating me by far.

The fact that they're a mason and are attacking each other is the reason why I think they're both suspicious
Isn't it weird that they attack each other, even though they're partners? Isn't it also weird that they took a long time to even mention being Mason after Seraphim claimed it?
I can't help but see two VI's in mafia and Seraphim risking it, or maybe one werewolf wanting to sacrifice the other to get credibility.
The reason why I don't want to vote Seraphim is that he doesn't seem to be suspicious, so my line of thought is:

1) We lynch Daniel/Vezo
2) They town, oops
3) They mafia/werewolves, the other two go

@foilist 300: Maybe it's my experience from the Rocissi games, but you are missing something obvious, and your post makes no sense.

I will take the 6)answer: Something you didn't talk about.

Seraphim claimed for whatever stupid reason he had.
I'll

Unvote
Vote daniel94581

If anyone has anything to gain from a mason dying, it would be a non-town-aligned mason. Regardless, daniel looks by far the most town of the three to me.

fos vez

Lowell, what you don't understand (but would if you had ISOed vezo AT ALL) is that vezo believes that since the Masons are not confirmed non-Werewolf, one of them must be a Werewolf. This is a bad assumption of his, but you can clearly see that this is his assumption in all of his posts. His information on LMP on the other hand, I have no idea. But it doesn NOT need to be revealed at this time.

Unvote

I like foilist13's posts on the matter of vezopiraka and daniel. 300 brings up an interesting point, but I don't think it applies in this case -- to be blunt, I do not feel daniel thought things through anywhere near as far as that. It also does not seem likely that people in a scumteam would be accusing each other (except to bus... but it would be Seraphim doing that, not vezopiraka). For now, I believe Seraphim's claim.

Leafsnail's ISO looks fine to me.

I was expecting vezopiraka's attack on LMP to be an attempt to push a lynch for his main suspect. This version doesn't work if LMP has some sort of information on vezopiraka, though.

SGRaaize's second post looks very unusual to me. He's on the fence with SSBF, `curious' about the matter but not doing any questioning. He's also not been too clear about accusing Parama and Lowell.

Vote: SGRaaize

I simply found SSBF way too tense, I don't suspect him lol

Parama has been completely insane and weird in his arguments against SSBF, trying to force a lynch somehow, very scummy IMO

So defensive after one vote?? And still sitting on that fence. I actually agree with Sevis here.

@foilist 328: STOP ROLEFISHING!

vote foilist

@Chrono 331: Lowell 332 says all I need to say about that.

@foilist 347: STOP ROLEFISHING!!!!!!

@Serial 350: I HIGHLY disagree about foilist being Town. He has a old enough join date that he should know how bad rolefishing is. And I'm right here. It's only been 2 days.

@askbob 364: Please scumhunt instead of commenting on the Mason stuff. And for your info, Seraph's play was the right play.

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

@SGR 370: If I didn't think foilist was scum I would be totally coming after you.

@Chrono 379: Not you too! DO NOT ROLEFISH!

@Chrono 382: STOP ROLEFISHING

FOS: Chrono

foilist, SGR, and robotnik are the current scummiest players IMO.

I am always defensive, I don't like misunderstandings, accumulated misunderstandings always result in a lynch, it would be far worse if I tried to correct all of you when I was at L-3

The Goat and Dr. Robotnik still haven't done anything to make me think they're something other than scum, so etc. ChronoCircleConstant could go either way tbh.

What were your original reasons on these two? I must've missed them. I probably did, tbh, since I haven't been giving this game enough attention since you guys aren't lynching SSBF.

WOW.

I just looked and I was totally confusing this game with another one. My bad. Sigh.

I have no idea whether scum can daytalk or not, but I can understand that looks badly like a slip. Zzzzzz.

For future reference, this is an extreme moment of derpiness, not a scumslip. I have these moments often for I fail.

I do agree that if one of the masons flips werewolf, we should (probably, depends on circumstances) lynch another to make sure they're not a scumteam.

Let's line up lynches based on something we can't confirm? No. Also, Seraphim would've been a complete idiot to out his entire scumteam like that - he's linked to the two as masons now. If one of them flips mason then the other two can't be lying, though it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't werewolves. But nonetheless we're not lynching a mason today.

In my opinion, we shouldn't pay much attention to the mason grouping alone, because they could be werewolves, and that is as likely as anything. So I think attacking masons is warranted, but it can't be because they are masons.

Your logic makes no sense. There is no good reason to lynch a claimed mason, especially on D1. If they're lying the other scumgroup will end up shooting at them eventually, anyways.

Hmm... Dr. Robotnik's continued push on a mason lynch does look rather scummy, I admit. Could be mafia trying to get a mason/werewolf lynch or a werewolf trying to push a lynch on a mason, either seems possible. I wouldn't mind voting him...

But I like my vote better. So

FoS: Dr. Robotnik

for now.
But, now that I think about it, there's another vote I like even better than both.

unvote, vote: SGRaaize

SGRaaize is doing the same thing as Robotnik, but he's a greater offender in terms of scumtells. His very first vote was on page 15, for a claimed mason. He's doing what Robotnik is doing... but though he's expressed suspicions before, he never acted upon them until now. And the vote is for weaker reasons than in his earlier posts where he didn't vote. If that isn't suspicious I don't what is.

Wait.

Nhammen's post has made everything crystal clear.

So defensive after one vote?? And still sitting on that fence. I actually agree with Sevis here.

This is a good point and a good reason to vote someone... and yet you don't.

@foilist 328: STOP ROLEFISHING!

vote foilist

@foilist 347: STOP ROLEFISHING!!!!!!

Looking at those two posts, they aren't really rolefishing... at all. More rhetorical questions adding to his points. And regardless that's not a good reason to vote.

@Chrono 379: Not you too! DO NOT ROLEFISH!

@Chrono 382: STOP ROLEFISHING

FOS: Chrono

This is genuine rolefishing by Chrono, yet you merely FoS.

foilist, SGR, and robotnik are the current scummiest players IMO.

And not Chrono, for doing the same exact thing you accuse foilist of? Note that foilist isn't really rolefishing though you accuse him of it, while Chrono is.

Guys, I've caught scumbuddies here, can we lynch them?

unvote

Vote: Nhammen

Super Mega HoS: Chronopie

HoS: SGRaaize

HoS: SSBF

FoS: Dr. Robotnik

If there is not a nhammen lynch in the next 24 hours I'm going to scream. Nhammen's post has caught 2 scum.

Well, about the Mason argument, I stated my explanation before.
I can't help but laugh, why would you vote someone and unvote that same guy in the same post?

@nhamen: This vote gets you at L-3. Claim time?

Unvote ;Vote nhamen

You for whatever reason are protecting Cronophie and you are not in a town group from what I know.

My claim:
A lot of people told me to claim.
I'm a monk, mason. I thought from the way the PM was structured that it implies there is a werewolf in the mason group and a mafia in the monk group. From my information I thought the scum from the monk group is lynchmepls. Apparently I was wrong.

Hum... I don't believe that the PM would imply there was a werewolf among you, maybe that it is possible, but would it seriously say "Hey, you have a werewolf in your team of 3, good luck"

Well, Vezo claimed, and since it'll be pretty obvious, I'll go along and do so as well. That way the town will have the info and can make of it what they will. Here is the post I prepared for if the town wanted me to share my info:

Alright, lets clear the air.

I am a monk (functionally the same as a mason). I am one of three. Vezo is one of the other monks. I choose to not disclose the third monks identity at this time.

As a monk, I know that my monk partners ARE NOT werewolves. I do not know if they are mafia or not.

When Vezo started spewing his unbelievable "Lynch is mafia" business, I was initially confused. When he then started accusing daniel, I started to get an idea about where his info was coming from. When Seraph made the claim, all the pieces fell into place. There are essentially two groups that can talk at night. 1 is a mason group that knows each other are not mafia. The other is a monk group that knows each other aren't werewolves. To further complicate things, Vezo is in both.

For some reason, my guess being that Vezo isn't good at logic, Vezo thinks that because he was told "the members of this group can't be werewolves" he thinks that means one of them MUST be mafia. And since he was told that "a member of this mason group can't be mafia" he took that to mean one of them MUST be a werewolf. I'll give you all a moment to digest this appalling use of logic. For some of us who are logic challenged, I'll use this example. X can belong to the group A, B, or C. You are told X is not A. Does that mean X is B??? Clearly not.

Now, for whatever reason, he decided that between me and the other member of our group, I must be the mafioso.

What does this tell us: First and foremost, since no one in Seraph's group can be mafia, and no one in my group can be werewolf, and Vezo is in both, VEZO IS CONFIRMED TOWN. PLEASE STOP TRYING TO LYNCH HIM. It also tells us that Vezo's logic isn't very sharp, and we should be careful with any conclusions he draws from information. (I don't mean to be rude, this is just a fact). Lastly, the possibility does exist that Seraph, daniel, and MonkX are scum, though they can only belong to a specific faction.

I'm pretty sure Vezo completely wrecked the usefulness of the Monk and Mason groups. I think at this point, the best way to salvage the situation is to confirm a townie, and get us back on track hunting for scum amongst the rest of the game. This explains why I said that of the three masons, daniel is the most likely to be scum, but I wanted to be clear I didn't mean that daniel IS scummy. I think Seraph's claim only makes sense if he is not a mason/werewolf. If he were a mason/werewolf he would have been happy to let the whole thing continue spiraling out of control.

Holy crap, what?
Well, alright, nevermind anything I said above, I doubt that LynchmePls is also a Mafia or a Werewolf, I'l just let the previous post be to explain why I suspected the Mason guys

Unvote

Vezo is screwed now, the Mafia would be dumb not to lynch a 100% confirmed town, I suggest protection on him, assuming we wanna keep him, of course (why wouldn't we?)

[SGRaaize]

Also, about the whole Nhammen thing, it is indeed very suspicious, him ignoring Chronopie and whatnot, I would vote lynch him, but I'd like him to claim, I'm very careful about vote lynches in that aspect.

[SGRaaize]

This is what I get for being friendly to nhammen, heh
Anyways, I already defended myself regarding your accusations, no point in repeating myself.
TBH, I still suspect you and, although its true that there are town roleblockers, there are usually more scum blockers (in my experience, lol), but I feel like the few guys who suspect me would suspect me even more if I tried to "quick hammer" you, and even those who don't think I'm scum would think I'm voting you purely because you are voting me

Meh, not worth it

[SGRaaize]

SGRaaize, if you continue to quote walls and respond with one-liners I will lynch you on policy because that's a waste of space and it only serves to make posts a lot longer than they need to be.

Are you serious?
Seriously, you guys threaten for such ridiculous reasons, in another game someone is gonna vote lynch a guy because supposedly he didn't talk in like mid day, now I am threatened of being lynched if I don't stop quoting big posts

And SSBF, thing is, I was suspecting a fake Mason claim before, until having LynchMePls on the mix

[SGRaaize]

Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

My vote is currently on Vezopiraka if you haven't seen the latest vote count.

That's very ironic, because Vezo is precisely the only guy we can't suspect of,

Wait... unless he was a third party, like a serial killer, that would be genius from the mod, lol

MS strikes me as scum. Just sayin'.

He always tends to be too easygoing, distracted and sometimes stupid, but when push comes to shove, he does a good job, at least from what I've seen from him

And I would gladly post links from my previous games where I was confirmed Town if it was in this forum, but I don't like posting other private forums where I am, part of my moral.
Sorry, bud

[SGRaaize]

And I would gladly post links from my previous games where I was confirmed Town if it was in this forum, but I don't like posting other private forums where I am, part of my moral.
Sorry, bud

Provide links anyways. NOW! You stated that you are always defensive. I want to find out if you were lying.

First of all, calm down, you hardly hold any authority over me here, there are many things I don't mind doing to prove my innocence, posting links for private forums on a forum as big as this just to show I like playing defensively is not in the list.

You know... I don't like this nhammen wagon.

Before Parama's post, I had a null, maybe slightly town leaning read on nhammen. He was pretty helpful mentioning the possibility of monks and he was being pretty open with his votes/thoughts. Nothing was really bothering me about his posts.

Then when Parama made his big post, I went and read nhammen's post and foilist13's posts that nhammen called rolefishing. The questions foilist13 was asking could really only satisfactorily be answered by telling more about vezo's role. It really seems like Parama was deliberately ignoring that. If Parama is ignoring some things to push his case then I figure he might be ignoring others as well.

SC mentioned something really smart about how nhamman was calling out the rolefishing but not saying the person was scum. That kind of thing bugs me but it bugs me on the same level as seeing Parama call out one of Chronopie's posts as a scumslip, vote him, and then go back to nhammen justifying it with "lol he's using meta." If I see a genuine scumslip, I'm really not inclined to move my vote away so easily so seeing Parama change back to nhammen for seemingly much flimsier reasoning is worrisome. Looks more like wagon testing than scum hunting to me. SC may be onto something, but Parama's activity just makes the nhammen wagon feel dirty to me.

That said, I'm pretty happy with my vote on Chronopie. He goes from hinting that a mason could be a cop to mentioning that a mason could be werewolf. The second part wouldn't have been problematic if not for the first part. The first part doesn't really have a pro-town explanation. What would make sense to me is if Chronopie is a werewolf, wants the masons dead, and is trying to get the mafia to kill the masons so his team doesn't have to. If you look at his actions that way then the second post takes on an entirely new meaning.

FWIW, that's where I am right now.

I'm not following with your Chronopie votelynch.
He said that its true that a cop could be among the masons, because its randomized on any non-mafia user.
He then said that its true that a werewolf could be among the masons, because its randomized on any non-mafia user.

...
Yeah... I'm not sure if I follow, maybe I'm just being a dumbass

[SGRaaize]

Vi, your argument on my lynching is "lack of decent content", I'm not sure if I follow
Also, you said before that I was against SSBF but didn't lynch him, once again, I just found him tense, I didn't suspect him

[SGRaaize]

Vi, your argument on my lynching is "lack of decent content", I'm not sure if I follow
Also, you said before that I was against SSBF but didn't lynch him, once again, I just found him tense, I didn't suspect him

What are your thoughts on what's going on? (aside from me mentioning your name)

My first and most important thought is that I find anyone weird for STILL suspecting Vezo, I mean, I guess he can be a third party, but seriously, unless the mod wanted to screw with us, what are the chances of that happening?

My second thought is that I find Vezo's constant lynches for stupid reasons very stupid, I don't consider him a VI, but come on

I still find Parama suspicious and weird, like I said before.

I am not sure if Foilist scummy, his change of stances and possible OMGUS doesn't make him scum

I am laughing at both Midnight's_Sorrow finding that message a Jester-Claim and at nhimamen giving up on trying to pressure me after threatening vote-lynching me if I don't accept to his ridiculous request, not VI or Scummy, but very funny

I think that your find on Sevis was better than any other thing you found, btw, I wouldn't mind going for a wagon on Sevis

Maybe because the crazy long deadlines + unwillingness to commit + strict activity rules is making this game a merry-go-round of suspicion without the faintest hint of an actual lynch happening.

Next big wagon on nhammen, foilest, chrono, servis, leafsnail or robotnik I'll ride all the way to a lynch. We need something concrete fast. I don't feel any better about my reads now than I did after 15 pages.

Agreed

LOWELL: You mentioned you are "unlynchable", is that part of your role? And if so, why would you say it casually? Or was that a joke that passed over my dumb head?

[/b]

[SGRaaize]

I think he meant that he's following you and parroting you to try to have some credibility
Sounds mildly good for me, I will lynch him if he doesn't claim

Checking in; somewhat tired.

My reads aren't changing a whole lot. I'm still not overfond of lynching Chronopie. Consequently, I think Leafsnail is targeting all the wrong people tbqh. askbob is still a . SGRaaize is still bordering on policy lynch range on account of "too incoherent to live". Lowell is still himself. Dry-fit is still way under everyone's radar for no evident reason. I have no idea who this "Pomegranate" character is. >.>

Probably the only

news

per se is--
*I would like for Parama to tone down and/or cease posting. We get the idea.
*Unsight's last two posts seem like filler. I'm particularly not thrilled with trying to get a read on this slot, but he seems more in the background than the last time I considered lynching him D1. (Or maybe that's me being tired, etc.)

I'm not as completely fed up with the game as SerialClergyman claims, and I think to a degree this back-and-forth is a good thing. I would, however, like for the people who are posting to mix up a bit, i.e. the people who have previously posted a ton to back off and let the bobs and the Dry-fits and the Robotniks and the Goats and the Unsights and the Eaters of Tim and the Pom-Poms and the etc. out to play.

Also, The Eaters of Tim would be a good name for a rock band. [/davebarry]

Cut by replacement: Faraday manages to stun me like none have in recent memory. In spite of being the one saying it, I'm not sure if that's a compliment.

@Faraday

- How much of the game have you read?

What's incoherent about me?
Thank you in advance for your answer

[SGRaaize]

Alright, guys, I know I'm sounding very scummy here, but I wanna get replaced, exams are starting and I can't bother to be ISOing on a Mafia game all the time

Sorry, but I will only start playing Mafia games again when holidays start