NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[DemonHybrid]

Hang tight, I gotta get my role PM.

Expect a post later tonight, I gotta read through 60 pages haha

[DemonHybrid]

K, I got my role PM. Doing a quick readthrough. Class at 5, thoughts afterwards.

[DemonHybrid]

Speaking of which, how much time do we have until the day's end? What's the votecount?

Give me a quick up-to-date while I read this....I mean, 60 pages, jesus.

[DemonHybrid]

I am currently planning to vote wraith at deadline. If someone could summarise the case on Mysterio Id like to hear it.

I think this is a good place to start; I've read through most of the thread, but I certainly haven't memorized everything, so I'm just going to start asking questions. If I'm missing certain information from the past, please be kind and let me know.

I'm with wraith on this one; this post is deliberately a 180 from your earlier reads on him. Please explain: How did it change and when did you decide a deadline vote on him was a good idea?

It just seems a bit flip-floppy to just change that without a reason. I find Wraith just as scummy as the next guy (loads of AtE, anti-town attitude, basically giving up when a case is presented against him, etc), but you're not too far off.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm waiting for Porochaz to answer my question before the last day ended. What's with the 180 read? What do you think of Wraith now?

[DemonHybrid]

Also, lets start looking at connections with Benmage. From what I've read, he's been moderately lurky, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: UltimaAvalon

Excuse me while I do some reading.

Excuse me, sir, but there do seems to be a vote on your face. Just thought you should know.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Porochaz

That is the connection. Poro flipflops with his Wraith read.

I'm comfortable with this lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

That doesn't change my vote. Benmage very clearly defended you and the sudden Wraith suspicion might have been opportunity a-knockin.

I DO NOT like Wraith's play this game with the AtE and self voting, but we're not supposed to be voting for anti-townliness, we're supposed to be voting to kill scum.

Is it in Wraith's meta to do stuff like that?

[DemonHybrid]

There is so much WIFOM in this discussion it's making my head spin. dana's arguments have turned to complete flail. We're talking about lawyers now? Who even starts to think of that role as town? There's not even a fucking wiki entry on it. You can argue the semantics all you want, but lets focus on your play now. Everything that has to do with your cop claim is "Well...it could have been.." this and "Well...it might have been..." that. Flip floppy votes and pure calculated defensive WIFOM points to you being da scummy scummy.

Unvote, Vote: danakillsu

. I'm still keeping my eye on Poro; he's in the perfect position to bus right now, plus, obvious defense by benmage is obvious. A look into Xite after this would probably prove helpful too.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, I skimmed through that whole thing.

I don't see how danakillsu's claim a few days ago was OBVIOUSLY fake, especially after DP's flip. I can understand Reck's reasoning with that, but I don't necessarily agree with all of his reads. For example, I find Poro one of the scummiest people here, so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go. However, I do feel like dana's faking it now that this WIFOM bullcrap has been going on.

So, yeah, you seem to know a lot about dana's role. This in particular stands out:

When dana flips scum, I'd like him to be lynched.

You seem to know a little too much.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: "so don't associate him with Reck as far as reads go."

So don't associate me with Reck etc.

[DemonHybrid]

Yes. It's more of an aside. Just like you have different opinions than JDodge and @.@, I have different opinions than Reck. Common sense in mafia says you listen to the new player while using what the replacee said as a supplement, not base a whole case on what the replacee said.

[DemonHybrid]

Then so far your case has been about Reck's reads and only Reck's reads, therefore, it's not a supplement.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: danakillsu

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Preview edit: That's true, Poro, and I never said I wasn't accountable, but to make a whole case on someone who didn't care about the game much in the first place and ignore what I have to say is foolish. Just wanted him to pay attention to my aside.

[DemonHybrid]

I have better things to do with my time than read every single word of 1600 posts. I skimmed the walls and got the general gist.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah. Well, Xite, seriously, ISO yourself. Compare the length to War and Peace. Did you expect that I read every word of it?

Xite's iso: Roughly 3,000 words.

War and Peace: Roughly 560,000 words.

I'm helpful : )

*grumble*

[DemonHybrid]

I've NEVER IN MY LIFE seen someone so fantastically amazing at mafia resort to AtE. That's something I've only ever seen with n00bs and scum.

AtE is completely null, and you know that, as an aside.

A lot of people in this game seems to be giving out AtE like candy.

[DemonHybrid]

However, I don't advise defending Rob at this point, DH. You're already on people's scumdars.

Do you want to point out where I defended Robb?

I'll wait.

[DemonHybrid]

Just as a note:

AtE by itself is null. AtE in combination with other scummy behavior points to the AtE being on the scummy side.

I don't like AtE in and of itself, but it's important to know when it is scummy or when it's just used because of frustration. Don't base an entire case on just AtE.

singer, what else do you think of Robb?

[DemonHybrid]

Haha, Dana's still going at it.

Vote: danakillsu

[DemonHybrid]

Wow, you guys are just fucking biting deep into the night kill WIFOM here.

Vote: Bunnylover

for starting this shit.

Pacman has an eye on him for fucking taking the bait.

Can we focus on who is scummy and who isn't for one day?

[DemonHybrid]

Let's just sit and focus on who is related to the dead scum already, especially with Dana. The day just started and we're not even looking into his connections at all.

[DemonHybrid]

That was... logical OMGUS... >_<

How can OMGUS be logical?

If it's logical and has a point, then it isn't OMGUS, is it?

Boiler plate use #1, and suspicion rising.

[DemonHybrid]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15167

Here you go, just in case you needed a logical shovel slapped across your random term-using face.

[DemonHybrid]

I wasn't even serious. I scrolled down to the bottom of the post and saw "Vote: Gorrad" and lol'd.

After reading it, it was a good case though.

Good to know that you care little enough to not read cases before you throw the term OMGUS around.

Unvote, Vote: evilpacman18

[DemonHybrid]

"That's totally OMGUS."

"Evilpacman, that's fucking dumb. You're just using OMGUS to pin suspicion and gain town points."

"....uh....I was.....totally joking, yeah, totally joking!"

"No you weren't."

"Psh yeah right...just...move on to......xite....cuz....."

[DemonHybrid]

I protest the fact that people can "joke" (a.k.a test the waters with a certain tactic) and get away with it.

[DemonHybrid]

There's just so much scumminess from this day it's unbelievable.

Bunnylover, there are 77 pages of content. And you're going to vote Porochaz for lurking and lurking alone?

[DemonHybrid]

Apply it to his behavior, then. The fact that Kise said that he believes Poro to be the Godfather (or hinting at such) means nothing in this case then; he got an innocent. There may not even be a godfather. You kinda need some evidence to back up this accusation.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Bunnylover

[DemonHybrid]

1st: Do you always back away from an argument when you've been caught? Major flip floppy. Do you find him scummy or not? What's your evidence for doing so? "Just lurking and cuz kise said gf" doesn't mean anything when there are 77 pages of content.

2nd: I'll vote for whoever I damn well please whenever I damn well please, thank you very much.

[DemonHybrid]

And let me try to explain this as well:

I don't believe that you "pressure voted" him. I believe you hopped on a random made-up case of Poro and held on tight, then backed away when you were caught and called it a pressure vote.

Explaining my votes:

I voted for you because you kicked off major WIFOM stuff that took town off track. I then voted for evilpacman because he did the same thing you just did, but a little MORE reasonable than yours. He tried a tactic, and when he failed, he blamed it on "oh this is what I was really doing". He blamed his on a joke though, while you blamed it on something much more incriminating IMO, like a "pressure vote".

You're forgetting that people LIE in mafia.

[DemonHybrid]

Who is bunnylover appeasing to, MME?

[DemonHybrid]

I...uh...I see a lot of arguing and not a lot of appeasing.

His appeasing (if you're female, BL, sorry) was more sarcasm.

[DemonHybrid]

@Gorrad: Why not?

It takes town off track.

Hence the WIFOM comment. That's my 2 cents at least.

[DemonHybrid]

Is there anyone you DON'T find scummy, Xite?

[DemonHybrid]

But is there anyone you find town at the moment other than yourself? And why?

[DemonHybrid]

But is there anyone you find town at the moment other than yourself? And why?

Yes and no.
I do feel people are generally town-ish, but I don't have anyone I see that's obvtown at the moment.
If I do I will say something.

I feel town reads are just as important to vocalize as scum reads are

.

Then why would you say what your town reads are?

[DemonHybrid]

*wouldn't you say

[DemonHybrid]

Aye, I'm still alive. Work's been swamping me, I'll post something later on.

[DemonHybrid]

I have no clue what to do with this Wraith situation.

Are you really that bad at town that you'd give up a defense and vote for yourself, or what? I'm considering changing my policy at giving self-voters extra chances.

[DemonHybrid]

*considering changing my policy of

Sorry, pre-occupied with a ton of work.

[DemonHybrid]

Lynch Xite tomorrow when I flip town, guys. That is all.

And again it should be brought to attention the very few votes that you have.

I'm changing that.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith

I'm getting sick of the AtE and it's getting pretty evident that he's using that as a fallback mechanism instead of manning up and making defenses like a good player.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: demonhybrid

He votes wraith because wraith doesn't man up.

Demonhybrid doesn't even care if wraith is scum.

That's stupid. I've long thought about whether wraith is scum since I've replaced in and I'm sick of him relying on AtE as a defense to the point where I think he's scum without an argument. Point went way over your head.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: demonhybrid

He votes wraith because wraith doesn't man up.

Demonhybrid doesn't even care if wraith is scum.

That's stupid. I've long thought about whether wraith is scum since I've replaced in and I'm sick of him relying on AtE as a defense to the point where I think he's scum without an argument. Point went way over your head.

Calling me stupid isn't a defense. You vote him because you are sick of him relying on AtE.

First off, I called your reasoning stupid. The smartest person in the world can say something stupid.

I vote him because I was on the fence of him being scum and the AtE, when asked for a defense, is over the top and consistent enough to make me believe that he's scum.

You don't actually vote him for being scum. AtE and being scum is unrelated, esspecially with newer players.

I've always been back and forth between whether he's scummy or not, he just wasn't the scummiest (bunnylover and pacman were ahead) until he went back to AtE.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't know that if flinter voting based on that is a particularly scummy action. I can see the town motivation behind viewing that as scummy; I put it down in the wrong words.

[DemonHybrid]

If Wraith "doesn't scream scum to you" and you have a better list of 3 lynches, why advocate his lynch?

[DemonHybrid]

If Wraith "doesn't scream scum to you" and you have a better list of 3 lynches, why advocate his lynch?

because town would do better with him out of the way and because I have been prety backwards on my reads with this game, if you haven't noticed...

Sorry, I've just always been about NOT policy lynching. It's a bullcrap way of making lynch decisions.

[DemonHybrid]

Because people think he's scum.

If you want to advocate his lynch, then do so and advocate him for being scum, not "town but distracting". You're still lynching a townie.

Unvote, Vote: Xite91

[DemonHybrid]

Here's my three:

As of the last few posts, Xite is scummiest, followed by Wraith and Bunnylover.

Xite for pushing a lynch while 1. not voting and 2. thinking the wagoned player is town but still advocating for a lynch, policy or not.
Wraith for AtE, earlier wishy-washy actions, inability to make a case when pressured.
Bunnylover for wishy-washy unvote and backpedaling.

[DemonHybrid]

Flinter: I could go back and pick out a whole bunch of semantical things gorrad said, I could spew a whole bunch of theory as to why I completely disagree witha lot of the stuff he pushed, but basically my case boils down to a) I don't think he's scumhunted honestly/hard enough and b)he seems to be looking for entirely the wrong things, leading to him being on a lot of terrible wagons. If that's not enough to convince people, adding a bunch of fluff won't help (or at least it ought not to.) Regardless, I'm coming around to the idea that he and I have different philosophies on what is scummy.

<---- I know it is small, but it really is there.

It's not that we disagree on the basics of the game, I think. I often find myself agreeing with your cases. Practically this entire post I agreed with, and it really made me doubt my Xite-vote.

Both you and Xite have mentioned that I have been on a lot of wagons, but I really doubt that since I haven't been posting a lot. I know that isn't how it should be, but I'm not going to get replaced when I can reasonably keep up with the game.

I've voted for Xite, demonhybrid, mysterio, singer, bunnylover and Dana.


I'm going to think about my Xite vote. Xite, why were you convinced that dana would claim a guilty on one of his scumpartners? Dana can hardly have been the scums most valuable member.

I really don't like how Demon went from voting me to voting Xite within a few posts.

Except I've never voted you.

[DemonHybrid]

That's two mis-reps in a row, flinter. Want to keep it up?

[DemonHybrid]

flinter, I already explained why =|

[DemonHybrid]

I never "agreed" with Xite. And Xite never voted Wraith today, from what I recollect.

#3 and #4.

[DemonHybrid]

For the record, it's probably a good idea to get your facts straight before you accuse people or try to post reasoning/opinions.

[DemonHybrid]

Just to confirm, do you understand why I might be alarmed by your vote (considering that I didn't make the last few mistakes in the posts on purpose)?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nope.

[DemonHybrid]

The point is way over your head.

First off, let us assume that all scum can do whatever they can and want. Because they can do whatever they can and want.

Second, let us assume that Wraith is scummy. I vote Wraith. However, Xite does not vote Wraith, advocates for his lynch and also says "He's town, but he's distracting."

I vote for Xite with a second option of Wraith. Xite is scummy because he finds town expendable and doesn't care about the alignment of Wraith as long as he dies. Wraith is a second option because he's straight up scummy in his demeanor and wishy-washyness.

Xite's advocating of Wraith with no vote could mean Xite scum pushing for Wraith scum's lynch to gain town points but not vote for Wraith himself. Xite scum could be pinning suspicion on Wraith town. Xite town has no legit motivation for doing such, so the other two arguments are just moot.

[DemonHybrid]

I get what you're saying now. Doesn't make it any less wrong.

By your logic, everyone voting for who I'm voting for is agreeing with me. Everyone voting for who I vote for means I agree with them.

You can vote for the same person and disagree with that person on many levels:

1. Reasons for voting
2. Level of scumminess
3. Motivations

The list goes on and on. And you're still misrepping things.

[DemonHybrid]

Did you miss the post where I said I can see the town motivation for finding what I did scummy?

I picked Xite cause he doesn't care if we lynch town. I find all players that play by the "policy lynch" standard bullshit and lynch worthy; they just don't care who lives and dies from an alignment perspective. That is leagues scummier than Wraith has been.

Again, I should point you to the "scum can do whatever they want" reasoning that I've stated. Xite and I didn't agree with each other. Xite simply stated that Wraith is worrying too much about too little votes. I said I was changing the amount of votes on Wraith cause he's scummy. He then says Wraith is a good lynch even though he's probably town; he's just a liability, so policy lynch. I find that scummy, so I vote Xite.

So please point out where Xite and I agreed with each other.

[DemonHybrid]

To make it even more specific, Xite's advocation for Wraith's lynch is different than my vote because I don't find Wraith town, and he does, but doesn't mind a Wraith lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

That's bad logic. Like, really bad.

My justification to place a vote on someone is to find the "scummiest" person of the bunch, not confirmed scum.

You have no clue how I play. I change votes all the time, because reads change.

Reads change. Reads change. I'll post that 3 times, because no one ever realizes that or remembers that.

DESPITE READS CHANGING: My read on Wraith DID NOT change. He is still scummy. I find Xite scummier.

I don't care if Xite supported a lynch for who I was voting; his reasoning is terrible and scummy and now I want him to die.

I have no clue what you mean by paragraph two. I didn't search anyone.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm pretty sure it isn't bad logic.

but this isn't going anywhere. I'm afraid some players will again complain about the amount of posts they have to read.

Pretty sure it was.

Again, check facts, then post case.

Post case and then check facts = bad.

[DemonHybrid]

Second, I said that I feel he doesn't scream town, but I'm willing to lynch wraith because my reads have been backwards. If wraith flips scum then I'm going to take a look at the people I don't suspect.
I think I already explained that. Again, that means you need to read.

You're banking on luck then. You're going to use the logic that he's town because you feel he's scummy, but because your reads are off the last few times, you're counting on them being wrong again?

You realize how absolutely dumb that logic is, right? And it doubles as a suspicion cop-out, so, cool.

I kind've ignored it before because it wasn't worth looking at; the outcome is still the same, no matter how backwards it is, and the scumminess is still the same.

[DemonHybrid]

luck can oftentimes be the best thing to use.

No, it's not.

[DemonHybrid]

luck can oftentimes be the best thing to use.

No, it's not.

I said CAN OFTEN be. Not always, but at this point, that's what I'd be willing to lynch based off of.

No, it's not.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

Not asking Poro the same thing? Hmm...

Poro voted first. Once it gets to the 2nd or 3rd vote with absolutely no reasoning, I start to question it.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: Wraith

Why?

But for sake of not evading your question, I'll say that Wraith has been under scrutiny almost since the beginning. It's time to see who was right.

So hey, we're definitely not in a position to push someone who has been consistently scummy just "to see who was right". 100% not liking this reasoning.

Vote: singersigner

[DemonHybrid]

BTW, I want a top 3 from MME. Same from Demon, Wraith.

Top 3 scum list?

[DemonHybrid]

Singer, evilpacman, Wraith.

[DemonHybrid]

Have you even mentioned singer once before today? Why now?

How come everyone freaks out when a read changes after a flip?

She's been lurky before today. I couldn't get a good read of her, so it was nullish, somewhat scummy. She sorta active lurked and posted a ton of fluff the past few days.

[DemonHybrid]

Have you even mentioned singer once before today? Why now?

How come everyone freaks out when a read changes after a flip?

She's been lurky before today. I couldn't get a good read of her, so it was nullish, somewhat scummy. She sorta active lurked and posted a ton of fluff the past few days.

Can you tell us which flip that is and why your read on her changed because of that one flip?

Sorry about the vagueness:

I felt like the singer pushing Xite at the end of yesterday was a town vs scum sort of deal (despite Xite not really paying attention to her). Her case doesn't hold up at all; while Xite WAS scummy (and, to be honest, I wasn't really paying that much attention to singer either), singer's case was full of a good amount of fluff and subjective playstyle grievances instead of hard evidence.

Also, her quickvote onto Bunnylover doesn't really help her case. Then a switch onto Wraith, which happens to be the easiest lynch for today in my opinion, scum or not. I suppose I was referring to most of the flips in general, sorry if I'm not giving that much information today. I'm pretty out of it today with a migraine. You think about a case, expect everyone else to know and forget to post it.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: DemonHybrid
Why would singer have Xite killed right after pushing a lynch on him and why do you think that scumsinger had Xite and not Gorrad killed? Especially since the Xite wagon was the biggest for a while yesterday so he'd be likely to get lynched soon.

You act as if you know who killed who.

[DemonHybrid]

Singer, evilpacman, Wraith.

Hrm

Are there any others you find scummy?

flinter is a 4th. Not OMGUS, mind you, but from our interactions yesterday. It gave me an iffy feeling.

[DemonHybrid]

VOTE: DemonHybrid
Why would singer have Xite killed right after pushing a lynch on him and why do you think that scumsinger had Xite and not Gorrad killed? Especially since the Xite wagon was the biggest for a while yesterday so he'd be likely to get lynched soon.

You act as if you know who killed who.

If you were a townie, it would surprising you wouldn't use such information for a vote.

But, if you are scum, and you know that evil couldn't actually know it, but he is right... you would make such a post.

Um...communication breakdown or something, I couldn't understand a word of that. Rephrase it please?

Singer, evilpacman, Wraith.

Hrm

Are there any others you find scummy?

flinter is a 4th. Not OMGUS, mind you, but from our interactions yesterday. It gave me an iffy feeling.

So you don't think prozac is scummy then?

Somewhat. He's not really active lurking in the sense that he has been contributing...just in little drunken spurts.

Let me just lay out a full list for you:

From town to scum

Shanba, Antihero, a tie between MME and Poro, Flinter, Wraith, EPM, singer.

[DemonHybrid]

I never said anything about someone killing someone. Holy poisoned wine, Batman!

[DemonHybrid]

I never said anything about someone killing someone. Holy poisoned wine, Batman!

Oh wait so you're voting singer just because she had an incorrect read on Xite?

Have you even mentioned singer once before today? Why now?

How come everyone freaks out when a read changes after a flip?

She's been lurky before today. I couldn't get a good read of her, so it was nullish, somewhat scummy. She sorta active lurked and posted a ton of fluff the past few days.

Can you tell us which flip that is and why your read on her changed because of that one flip?

Sorry about the vagueness:

I felt like the singer pushing Xite at the end of yesterday was a town vs scum sort of deal (despite Xite not really paying attention to her). Her case doesn't hold up at all; while Xite WAS scummy (and, to be honest, I wasn't really paying that much attention to singer either), singer's case was full of a good amount of fluff and subjective playstyle grievances instead of hard evidence.

Also, her quickvote onto Bunnylover doesn't really help her case. Then a switch onto Wraith, which happens to be the easiest lynch for today in my opinion, scum or not. I suppose I was referring to most of the flips in general, sorry if I'm not giving that much information today. I'm pretty out of it today with a migraine. You think about a case, expect everyone else to know and forget to post it.

It's good if you actually read posts.

[DemonHybrid]

"

singer's case was full of a good amount of fluff and subjective playstyle grievances instead of hard evidence.

"

[DemonHybrid]

As opposed to the rest of us that actually had voting pattern evidence and various scumtells pointed out.

My lord.

[DemonHybrid]

Lynching DH now > massprod.

Orly.

Grandma, what big fluff you have!

[DemonHybrid]

Really not much to say at the moment until singer posts.

Poro, what do you think of singer? (not just her case or wagon; what do you think of -her-?)

[DemonHybrid]

As a person? I dont think thats relevant.

On her play.

Not her wagon or the cases against her.

[DemonHybrid]

I believe singer is at L-1. Should I hammer? There's really nothing more we can do with this day.

Are you hammering just to hammer? Or do you actually have legitimate suspicion against singer and reasoning to hammer?

I ask because there has been absolutely no indication of you suspecting singer since you've started this game.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: evilpacman18

until you explain what the fuck was up with that hammer.

What suspicion did you have against singer that justified it?

[DemonHybrid]

The reason why I suspect evil due to his hammer is that he could have spent the time to scumhunt. Literally his last 7 posts of day 6 has been "Hey guys, I'm hammering singer."

"Really, guys, I'm hammering her."

"Hammering in 3 hours." etc. Why didn't you take the time to ask questions before she was lynched?

Also: "In before VT"? I personally would never vote someone who's claim I believe, so what's your reason? If you believed the claim, you should have taken the time to convince people to leave her wagon, not hammer her just for information.

Wraith: Reck's been around for quite a while. He's a competent scumhunter. I'm rather new to the game. Could it be possible to you that he was just right on his reads? It was obvious that he didn't really care about the game, so did you factor that in when you say "throwaway"?

Claim: VT

, by the way.

[DemonHybrid]

Reck may be a competent scumhunter but his play in this game does not reflect it. He lurked and put votes down for bad reasons. Almost all his posts were no longer than one sentence and none of them contained any real scumhunting. THerefore it is impossible for Reck to have been "right on his reads."

I certainly can't speak for him. But, by seeing him around the site, you'd know how busy he was. How is it impossible that he could have been right on his reads (I assume that when he put down votes, he had X kind of read on said involved people) and just not cared that much about the game, therefore, little reasoning?

[DemonHybrid]

I did a quick ISO.

He hammered Frank, voted dana, and then voted you. So....what are you talking about, again?

You made it sound like he kept putting votes on scum like nhammen, benmage, dana, etc. instead of ONLY just dana. So don't tell me you were trying to blow things out of proportion.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: evilpacman18

until you explain what the fuck was up with that hammer.

What suspicion did you have against singer that justified it?

You were on that wagon yourself, right? I find this post very hypocritical. VOTE: Demonhybrid.

The last line is just there to make sure that DH can justify his own vote.

Wow, so, you guys can't read? Or do you choose not to?

I had justification to be on singer. EPM had no justification to hammer IF:

1. He thought she was town
2. He had no prior suspicions

This has nothing to do with my view on singer or my vote on singer. I can't believe I have to actually explain that.

[DemonHybrid]

Wraith, I don't count benmage. Why? Because he was an RVS vote.

Misrepfest 2010. I'm glad to be the guest of honor. flinter can bring the soda, Wraith, the doritos.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, I know that last sentence was to make sure we couldn't attack you with the same point.

Oh damn, you brought balloons too, how sweet!

Please explain to me why you thought that, and why it's not "EPM hammering without any justification (I.E: he thought singer was town) vs. me having reasoning and had a legitimate reason to vote singer (because she looked scummy)", which is what I've been trying to explain all along.

[DemonHybrid]

And don't give me crap like "the information from her flip is valuable! Gurgh!"

I had a very extensive debate on this with many of my mafia playing friends. The information you gain from a flip (especially a town flip) when you think they're town in the first place does not come close to how valuable they are alive (assuming they are town, of course). The chance of town winning lowers drastically when a townie dies. Hardly any information comes from the flip. Many misreps can come from flips. This is a prime example.

So, go ahead and please explain your reasoning on why you think that was a scum defense and not an attack on EPM.

[DemonHybrid]

No, I'm frustrated that every time you mention me, it's been a giant misrep.

What's with the question dodge?

[DemonHybrid]

flinter, you yourself made the question rhetorical. It was a legitimate question on my end, however, I discredited your "evidence", giving your bad reasoning absolutely no merit, so unless you had something else in mind, saying that I was trying to defend myself by saying "EPM should be lynched because he hammered when he thought singer was town" is WRONG and always will be WRONG.

You should realize 3 things.

1. I'm in a tough major in school and I don't always have time to sit here and dick around with mafia.
2. I'm in 6 games (which is partly my fault, but doesn't change the fact that I was mega busy)
3. I replaced in about 35 pages in the game, keeping me somewhat out of the loop permanently and making it very hard to stay consistent with the amount of posting that I do.

It's hypocritical that you should say that I'm opportunistic when you're willing to lynch me for awful reasons that you won't even try or can't even back up.

It's also hypocritical to say that I'm "nervous" when you're sitting there

bolding statements saying that we should definitely lynch DemonHybrid

in a crazy attempt to make your case look better when it has no merit.

I'm surprisingly with Wraith now, saying that EPM is most likely the 3rd party killer (unless a vig has a daily shot, that seems to be crazy rare nowadays however). I'm confident Flinter is the last scum though.

Unvote, Vote: Flinter

. We lynch EPM after this, but I like the pressure on Flinter now. There's no way that you can try to flailingly back up such a bad case and be pro-town in the least.

[DemonHybrid]

Definitely for the DH lynch.

Vote: DemonHybrid

I believe this is L-1. We already have a VT claim from him. What's kingmaker?

Way to be opportunistic. Did you even read my case on flinter?

[DemonHybrid]

ARGH

It's not OMGUS if there is a CASE TO BACK IT UP.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p2600644

You know, THIS whole case which I took time to put together >_<

[DemonHybrid]

Here is the origin of OMGUS.

"Ryoushi: I am going to Vote: Purgation because I don't like any of the other bandwagons.
Purgation: OMG, you suck. Vote Ryoushi.
Ryoushi: I didn't expect that kind of response, though..."

Notice how Purgation's vote had NO REASONING to back it up.

[DemonHybrid]

I didn't vote flinter earlier. Just now.

[DemonHybrid]

EPM: I misread. Thought you said I voted flinter twice.

[DemonHybrid]

Why not just give them a quick overview? Little 2 sentence statements that wrap up each day.

I, for one, would not object to being more lenient with missed information and will correct them as needed.

[DemonHybrid]

What's up?

[DemonHybrid]

No, ma'am. =(

I have a bogus argument on me at the moment. Have you read that and my response to flinter?

Abridged: I voted for singer, but EPM hammered while indicating he thought she was already town in the first place. Day starts, and I vote him for a terrible hammer. People voted me for being a hypocrite because they think that I was opposed to the singer hammer this day when in actuality, I was opposed to hammering her when EPM clearly stated he was town.

flinter's attitude bad logic put her over the top, so I switched over to her. I'd say that if there was 1 scum left, it'd be flinter. 2 scum, flinter and Wraith. I'm confident that EPM is the 2nd killer, whether he be a daily vig or an SK, but more likely SK with that attitude.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: "I was opposed to hammering her when EPM clearly stated she was town."

I guess he just was more entranced with either being bad town wanting information from the flip or, of course, lynching whoever and not caring. Willing to go with the 2nd option, especially after an opportunistic vote on me last page.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP2: "People voted me for being a hypocrite because they think that I was opposed to the singer

wagon

"

You need to bear with me. I had a fever 2 days ago. Now it's the full blown flu.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, he doesn't seem like mafia, but his play is very opportunistic. Hence the belief that he is a likely 3rd party killer, but that's only something Wraith and I brought up, IIRC. MME's thoughts have been almost non-existent and flinter's read on him screams town. Anti-hero's been in and out of this game.

[DemonHybrid]

As far as our recent argument goes, read posts #2343 to #2353.

My earlier interactions with her had to do with her misrepping me quite a bit. See this post on: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p2562839 to #2159.

She hasn't posted a lot otherwise, and it's mainly been cases on Bunny, Xite and Mysterio. She put a vote on Dana, but FoS'd Bunny in that same post. I know that the scumtell has always been to vote a townie and FoS a scumbuddy, so I'm not sure what to make of that vote post.

[DemonHybrid]

Antihero (or I) can't be groupscum except with Demonhybrid, though of course there are other possibilities and shit.

Explain this more. Not sure if I understood of if it's clear. Sorry.

[DemonHybrid]

...flinter's read on EPM screams town.

Uh, yeah. The subject of that post was EPM.

[DemonHybrid]

As in, your read on EPM is that "EPM is town".

MME's thoughts on EPM were non-existent.

[DemonHybrid]

flinter, you yourself made the question rhetorical. It was a legitimate question on my end, however, I discredited your "evidence", giving your bad reasoning absolutely no merit, so unless you had something else in mind, saying that I was trying to defend myself by saying "EPM should be lynched because he hammered when he thought singer was town" is WRONG and always will be WRONG.

You should realize 3 things.

1. I'm in a tough major in school and I don't always have time to sit here and dick around with mafia.
2. I'm in 6 games (which is partly my fault, but doesn't change the fact that I was mega busy)
3. I replaced in about 35 pages in the game, keeping me somewhat out of the loop permanently and making it very hard to stay consistent with the amount of posting that I do.

It's hypocritical that you should say that I'm opportunistic when you're willing to lynch me for awful reasons that you won't even try or can't even back up.

It's also hypocritical to say that I'm "nervous" when you're sitting there

bolding statements saying that we should definitely lynch DemonHybrid

in a crazy attempt to make your case look better when it has no merit.

I'm surprisingly with Wraith now, saying that EPM is most likely the 3rd party killer (unless a vig has a daily shot, that seems to be crazy rare nowadays however). I'm confident Flinter is the last scum though.

Unvote, Vote: Flinter. We lynch EPM after this, but I like the pressure on Flinter now. There's no way that you can try to flailingly back up such a bad case and be pro-town in the least.

Reading is fundamental.

How can you be "confirmed" that I'm scum? And why, after my back and forth with flinter and my shutting down of her case?

[DemonHybrid]

EPM, I just want to say, it shows a great lack of care that you would completely ignore an argument in a situation like this (LyLo? MyLo?) and not take in any available information before making a choice.

[DemonHybrid]

And you...still haven't commented on the case that I made. Do you just not like information, pacman, or..?

[DemonHybrid]

Hi, Yosarian here. Probably don't have time to read the whole game right now, and we seem to be at lynch -1, so I'm going to have to pick and choose what parts of the game to focus on, at least for the moment.

A few quick questions to everyone, before I try to do any focused re-reads; this is just based on me looking at the list of who died back on page 1.

1. Just looking at the first page, it looks like the doctor got lynched on day 2. How did that happen? Were any of you on that wagon, and if so, why?

2. Again looking at that list, it looks like we lynched one scum so far this game. Who pushed that wagon, and who do you guys think comes out of that wagon looking more or less pro-town?

3. Looks like there was a dead cop, Kise; do we have any relevant role information from him?

If there's anything else I should look at in targeted re-reads, let me know. I'm probably going to go re-read day 4 first, since town actually lynched a scum that day, and that usually gives the best info.

-Yosarian2

1. I was not, but Mysterio apparently just was vague enough to look scummy, and then chose not to defend himself. I replaced in at the end of Day 2 and voted Wraith, so I'm not sure of the implications.

2. Well, the wagon came about because Kise died, leaving Dana basically scum outed. He got a read right and a read wrong, meaning he couldn't be any different sanity, so there was just common knowledge, no "wagon pushing".

3. He said that "Poro might be the godfather", but that's all he said before his death.

[DemonHybrid]

EtherDent, the only thing I ask for you is to collect your heads' thoughts and post as one.

Preview edit: There are obvious pros and cons to no lynching; the question is do the pros outweigh the cons?

I'd like you to explain your thoughts on a no-lynch plan now, flinter; not entirely sure I trust what you're up to.

[DemonHybrid]

Bah..

[DemonHybrid]

I guess it's safe to start talking now.

I wonder why you decided on EPM, Anti.

What a fun game, though. I'm glad I made EPM look really town, after all was said and done. I never told him I was going to bus him Day 7, so I wanted an element of surprise in there. I knew that whether or not he got lynched or I did, we would have gotten away with the win. Unlucky enough to have EPM nightkilled though....and I fucking love EPM forever for choosing not to night kill, what a pro move.

Also, I was 90% certain Wraith was the SK.

[DemonHybrid]

SKs can't no kill, but no-killing for mafia would make you guys assume that mafia was done for. I tried to make my bah post as miserable as possible to hint at that =P

[DemonHybrid]

Regardless, it was a good play.

And yeah, they can forgo their night kill, but SKs can't. If they don't send in an action, it's randomized.

[DemonHybrid]

Hey, at least I like my bussing skills....I fail and I make the other person look TOO town, haha

[DemonHybrid]

Anti, you singlehandedly wiped out 66% of us. What gave us away? lol

[DemonHybrid]

well, 60%, forgot there was only 5 mafia.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, we didn't kill Kise.

[DemonHybrid]

Game was fair, fun and exciting. Bravo.

[DemonHybrid]

Reading the Mafia QT:

1) Damn, I've never seen anyone post WoTs in a QT until @.@
2) Demonhybrid on N2 in the QT:

Let's keep the SK alive for a while if we ever do find out who he is; he can help us kill town twice as fast.

Yeah haha

You....uh...you were a tool all along...yeah.. ._.

[DemonHybrid]

...a tool that raped us..

[DemonHybrid]

I hate being scum...lying's not in my nature, so it sucks when I need to.

[DemonHybrid]

I actually thought that you were pretty distracting and cleared dana for 2 more days. Just saying