Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Ether]

To my fellow potential replacements: be careful. IH, Flameaxe and stark are all going to be scum.

[/threadjack]

[Ether]

Hi. Who's scum?

[Ether]

I think Patrick's more likely to use a vig than a serial killer, but I'd prefer not to get into that at this time.

I'm about to eat--I will try to do basic homework (or possibly make other people do basic homework) on those people when I get back.

[Ether]

Ether returns with a whir and a flourish.

All right, Yosarian. How did he catch you?

I'm intrigued by Glork's Shanbavote even though I don't want to sheep on him on principle because he's a bum.

[Ether]

vote: Shanba

[Ether]

Yosarian, how come chamber's voting you?

How do I read CES, Ythill and Glork? Can I sheep on you with DGB, or are you reserving the right to be wrong?

[Ether]

You did kind of guarantee that with your first line.

[Ether]

But fine. Why shouldn't I lynch Shanba? Also give sparknotes on MBL's and Crash's play so far this game.

[Ether]

Lemme read back. Why was this Crashwagon you speak of crap?

Glork, is Gurgi's assessment true? I was kind of assuming you had better.

[Ether]

Whew.

[Ether]

Probably. I'm reading other stuff first, and even then, I tend to be shit at processing anything that happened before I came on the scene.

I'm a bit unclear why you're worried. It'll take me a bit to think independently, but that has nothing to do with you.

[Ether]

The above post has convinced me that DGB and Glork are probably town (and also kinda reflecting on Glork's frustration with getting sheeped on), and that it's probably safe to sheep on you with CES. With Ythill, I'mma need more examples.

[Ether]

Hokay, so Ether has breathed the breath of life into Glork.

Nonono. Any rumors you may have heard about us are unsubstantiated.

[Ether]

I don't think Shanba's stance on the Mertwagon is suspicious, though I'd have to actually read the damn thing to know if I agreed. (I am still voting him.)

Shanba, what's the argument Yosarian's beating you at?

I understand MBL picked up a prod over half a day ago. I would like to start reading that sinister sonofabitch sooner rather than later.

[Ether]

First half goes now.

[Ether]

Shanba. You here?

[Ether]

Why's it stinky? Are you going to try to convince me, a player who is not the player you are trying to lynch?

[Ether]

Tentative

unvote

.

That all sounds reasonable. How come you've gotten yourself caught up in a fight with Yosarian? (This is not a fight I want to restart. Attacker-defender spats are hella boring to read.)

[Ether]

Okay.

Stop lurking. You're playing with me now. Do I need to sing?

[Ether]

I have to catch a bus now. MBL, stop slaying orcs and get back to us.

[Ether]

Shanba, what do you think about Yosarian's town reads?

[Ether]

I will probably endorse the CDB hate. He's V/LA, though.

[Ether]

Yosarian and Crash should debate DGB's alignment for a while.

[Ether]

I would still like Yosarian to elaborate on his read of DGB in light of Crash's post.

I am aware of the CDB wagon. I continue to think it would be fine if he were actually

here

, but is a waste of time as it stands. Hmm hmm.

[Ether]

I got that. I think this is a silly practice, but I don't care enough to turn it into an argument.

vote: ChannelDelibird

(Also, I just looked at his most recent posts on the site. Chamber's right; he is around. He's been prodded.)

Crash is CrashTextDummie. I just use the first syllable there instead of an acronym.

[Ether]

Hi, Gurgi. That last line is the only part of your post I've actually read, but I do like a coincidence.

I'm five pages behind, on top of not having read up. It's...the opposite of my normal situation with this sort of thing, I guess. I'm busy in real life, and this game's suffering the fallout.

My last exam is on Thursday. I refuse to jinx anything by making

promises

, but it's certainly something to keep in mind if I

don't

come back then.

[Ether]

Trying to sit through the earlier posts. Hmm hmm.

CDB, I saw you requested replacement in two other games. Will you be okay here?

[Ether]

What's wrong with voting CDB?

This is more or less what I expected from Ether. Good but sporadic play.

...

Uh. If you say so?

[Ether]

DGB, Glork's town.

Has the Flameaxe/Porochaz slot ever done anything?

[Ether]

To be fair--like I said, he requested replacement in two games earlier today. (Does anyone know if his alignment would influence which ones he chose to stick with? Probably not, with a game like this one, but hey.)

I can't be assed to move my vote, though.

[Ether]

I seem to have some repressed desire to lynch MBL from somewhere that has nothing to do with his alignment in this game. I should totally try to read his posts.

Crash. I know you were in both i10 and that /invitational. No chance you've got a meta on Huck?

[Ether]

Um.

I think Shanba's probably town, but I'm hoping to drag myself through Day 1 and understand what you're not seeing in him. I think you're town. I think Ythill's town; there was one thing Yosarian drew attention to on reflection that I can't remember off the top of my head. I think Crash is town.

I haven't advanced to the point of "finding scum" yet.

Huck's vote on Ythill on page 6 bugged me. This was of course page 6. (The only thing I know about Huck in general is that he gets lynched despite being totally right about everything, but not necessarily in the painfully town way Xtoxm always used to pull it off.)

I recently tried listing every player in the game from memory. The ordering came out like this:

Glork
Yosarian
Shanba
Ythill
Crash
Gurgi
MBL
CDB

-gap-

DGB
chamber

-gap-

CES

-gap-

Porochaz

At this point I checked to remember Huck and inHim. There wasn't much of a gap between remembering Porochaz and this.

[Ether]

DGB, it'd probably be better if you didn't kill at all. You could easily be the last role that changes parity, and if you are, we want to stay at odd parity.

Shanba, do you have your own opinion on that town list? (I'd appreciate that from anyone. I feel like I'm outside looking in.)

[Ether]

I'm in the process of reading. I was kind of procrastinating because the first seven pages or so just made my eyes glaze over and I wanted to put it off, but it's much smoother sailing now. Merry Christmas!

-

I might have tried to poke at Tripod and get in his head if he were actually here, but he's not--I never could make myself interested in the Crash/Tripod exchange aside from that. Noting inHim's thing about the Crashwagon being defused, mostly because Glork notes it.

Now I sort of want inHim and Crash to be scum together; it'd be funny.

I also looked through Untrod Tripod's past games in an effort to meta him. He is always scum. He is never town. Is this a fucking joke?

Anyway, I finally became alert at some point during the Ecto spat. Page 9ish. MBL and probably a few other people touched on it before then, but it was my predecessor, stark, who really drew my attention to it in 212. Ythill is obvtown for secondguessing his vote right at the point where Ectomancer is vulnerable like that. I'd probably be thinking that even if Ectomancer hadn't flipped doctor. Dunno whether I'd have backed him up; hindsight is 20/20 and all that, and I can't be assed to read and reread a dead guy's post to check if he was properly offended.

Page 10: ...so why the fuck did chamber vote Ythill immediately after, without acknowledging the recent stuff about Ectomancer? (226.) Has that trying to be consistent instead of actually scumhunting feel. Glork FoSes MBL. It's a valid point; need to check back and see if MBL gets all instructorsy as town. (I've been in two games with MBL. He was scum in both, and I flaked from both.

Typical.

) Then MBL and Glork both assume this is about coaching, which was

not

my first thought. Hindsight, baby! This means I may have

finally

found an avenue that hasn't been explored yet. Shanba thinks Ectomancer is town, which is true, though the reason why is kind of dumber than Ythill's, because the point is Ectomancer wasn't scumhunting. But I'm sure one of the Ectowagoners will lecture him on Page 11. I can easily see his point on inHim go either way, but I know that in the present day inHim will pull similar shit, so that's another thing to pay attention to.

I should try to get a list running of who abstains from these discussions; I remembered in the middle of page 10 that I was trying to pay attention to HackerHuck, but he's not the only one. Think Yosarian mentioned V/LA earlier; I know he's the center of discussion now, but back then he wasn't even around.

While I mentioned the present day a few times, the truth is I've only been skimming very, very loosely as of late. Everything's felt so damn out of context.

[Ether]

I just read the last page properly. Ythill, why's Glork scum? If Glork is setting up a bus that hasn't even happened yet, what

can

he do that wouldn't be scummy in your eyes? I think you're getting paranoid here.

Having said that--and I'm certainly not promising to do any extracurricular reading--Glork, you wanna give us a link to one of your scum games under a fancier playerlist instead of inviting us to guess? I know there was that CT1 game, at least.

[Ether]

DGB is town because this is how town DGB plays, and because she's quite clearly doing everything she can to find the scum this game. It's basically a meta read, and a sense that she's acting in a generally pro-town way. I really can't give you an answer more specific then that, but I'm confident that I'm right, and I'm sure other people who have as much experience with DGB as I have (like Ether, for example) will be able to back me up on that.

I haven't personally put any effort into reading DGB here, but Yosarian's being perfectly in-character.

Also, um, she claimed vig, which implies that she is not scum with him. So I'm not really clear on what the issue is.

[Ether]

Yeah, so Shanba's still town. (You don't plant shit like that like Patrick does, do you? Please say you don't.)

I'm probably going to like the inHim case, which in turn may make this goldmine of original thought I was hoping to find on MBL less interesting, which in turn drat.

unvote

[Ether]

Okay, Yosarian's town and I didn't even read that post. Ythill, can you two kiss and make up so we can get this voting bloc on the road?

[Ether]

Porochaz, you here?

[Ether]

Aside from CDB and inHim, CES is also on the prod list. Need to remember to keep him on my radar.

[Ether]

Why that even remotely surprise you? It's hardly out of character for me. Are you going to try to spin it into an attack next?

[Ether]

Dammit.

I should have just asked Glork who's town.

[Ether]

I literally haven't

played

in the past year or so. Before that, process of elimination got me pretty damn far. I won't deny that I found unfortunate side-effects at its extremes, but this is pretty damn far from extreme.

InHim's probably scum because I'm sheeping. Also chamber, for his shit on Ythill. That's not associative.

Who's town, Glork?

[Ether]

Really. Why chamber and MBL?

[Ether]

I was figuring you'd changed more in the past year or so.

This is off-topic, but I'm kind of curious what other changes Glork is projecting onto me.

[Ether]

Gurgi.

You're on AIM. Are you on 'Scum?

[Ether]

I think you're town. I...don't think this is going to help me read you further, but I need moral support and this body's been a shitty vessel for a caffeine deity. I have to get through this game.

[Ether]

Um. Moral support shit. I don't even know what you're supposed to say, and keeping track of page 67 isn't really helping me feel caught up with the game as a whole.

But stay online, please.

[Ether]

Cheers, both of you.

It's stupid. I keep promising Patrick that I'm not in a spiral, but I am; it's just a different kind. Outside distractions, and it's not even a dead relative or something serious. It's a feud on a goddamn site I supposedly quit months ago.

Understand inHim did something ridiculous with a nurse claim, but haven't even read

that

. There are so many chunks of the game since after I replaced in that I haven't read at all.

[Ether]

Normally I don't bother to backread. I mean, that scummie under my name didn't entail any backreading and it worked out okay. This game's just weird.

I'll want inHim's corpse sooner or later, but like Gurgi said, I want to feel like I've got a proper anchor before going to night.

[Ether]

I still don't get the Yoshate, at all. To be fair, I've never been in a forum game where he's scum, and he's pretty good at tricking me face to face.

[Ether]

That was really more a statement than a question. Feel free to give examples of the stuff you cited in your second sentence, though.

Go to a meet, Gurgi.

[Ether]

Fuck yeah I'm going to that one. DGB is awesome, and I need more excuses to wear the pimp hat she bought me.

[Ether]

Ether reaches across the room and dons her pimp hat.

I understand Yosarian probably

won't

be making that one, sadly.

[Ether]

This is why chamber is scum. ._.

[Ether]

If Ythill pays for for my plane ticket, I'll be there in a second. But even aside from expenses, the east coast meets have evolved to stretch out longer and longer, while the west still only goes for a weekend at a time. Makes it tougher for people from further away to justify coming over there, y'know?

He's been changing behavior when called out on it, and defending from the PoV of someone who thinks he appears town, rather than actually being town.

I do still want to see what you're getting at here.

[Ether]

Maybe. This house is pretty well-suited for a meet, but unfortunately, it's my parents', not mine. (Also, Yosarian's the one who does the beach meets. My place has such nearby attractions as quality Chinese food, good diners and New York City.)

It looks like once I've gotten my own issues sorted out, I'm gonna have to sing for Shanba after all. How come I have more posts than him already?

...don't answer that.

[Ether]

Everything inHim says makes my eyes glaze over. Every case you make on him makes my eyes glaze over because I don't remember anything he did because I can't sit through his posts. This sucks.

[Ether]

Both of them, though especially the second part. Yosarian really has seemed all right to me.

I'm weird about MBL. I think it's the way normal people act around Yosarian and Glork.

[Ether]

I'm just gonna smile, nod and sheep.

[Ether]

Hey. Don't knock sheeping.

Also, as I posted that, I remembered the him/inHim thing. There's that.

[Ether]

I don't actually watch enough Futurama to get that. I'll just smile and nod again.

[Ether]

vote: HackerHuck

[Ether]

'Cause he's scum.

Okay...um, the fact that there were two kills is a point in CES's favor. This is especially true if they have a roleblocker. Good, because I sure as hell can't read him through his play independently.

We are not lynching Shanba.

[Ether]

Scratch the roleblocker thing; I'm not thinking clearly. If they roleblocked DGB, it wouldn't affect the nightkills at all. Um. It's like...I'm assuming a vig killed DGB, and the mafia killed Yosarian. So they weren't too threatened by her, but I don't know what degree of damage control if any they did and gah.

[Ether]

I disagree, but this is a debate which I am absolutely unwilling to have.

[Ether]

Crash, like Shanba, is not the play.

[Ether]

I...think Ythill is town, but you can do that one. I wouldn't mind some reassurance.

[Ether]

I was in one of my ridiculous spirals where I need to massage my self-esteem before I can even bring myself to look at the damn thing. I'm still not fully caught up, but we'll worry about that shortly.

I would prefer not to answer the suspect question, but I am aware of it.

[Ether]

Also, two seconds.

[Ether]

I have full empathy for CDB, but he still needs to get his ass out of GD and get over here.

[Ether]

Look at everyone.

[Ether]

Keep in mind that I'm not

just

saying these things at you so I can read you.

But fine.

Is the current wagon the only reason you're deciding to look at Huck specifically? Do you have an opinion on him

now?

[Ether]

Glork's also town. He sucks too hard this game to be scum.

CDB could be scum, but I don't think it's really decipherable from his lurking so far.

[Ether]

Change of plans; Crash is probably scum. Not for his last post; more that I thought

he

was the vig, and if he's not, his behavior around DGB's been seriously fucked up.

[Ether]

By the way, DGB, I'm afraid to pose the obvious question, but why did you claim vig completely unprovoked?

I'm getting strong DGB-Yos scumpair vibes.

Dum dedee dum dum, I'm not counterclaimed (mind you, vig counterclaims are usually settled with night fire).

In light of new developments, I don't think a CDB lynch is paramount anymore.

unvote, vote: Yos

[This post also advises the vig not to kill Shanba. I am aware of this and it did not give me pause at all.]

Then there's just a ton more of harassing the claimed vig. Now why would that be, and why on Earth would my conclusion surprise you at all?

[Ether]

Between my roleblocker mixup and the knowledge that the scum killed DGB and not Yosarian, my thing about CES was just totally wrong.

[Ether]

I like my vote.

[Ether]

Do you think HackerHuck is scum?

[Ether]

Why's CDB scum?

[Ether]

I'm not going to meta him myself. You're going to convince me to join you in lynching the person you think is scum, or watch him not get lynched.

[Ether]

...

...weirdo.

[Ether]

It takes one to know one, weirdface.

[Ether]

Hello again, Huck.

[Ether]

This makes the assumption that I'm looking for an argument.

[Ether]

Arguing implies that I will disagree with what he has to say no matter what, and therefore there's no use saying it. (It would also imply that

my

arguments aren't worth hearing, but since I don't see this as an argument at all, it doesn't apply here.)

I'm under the impression that CDB has a fragile heart regardless of his alignment. But that's not very useful for me; I'd rather just have a read on him one way or the other. If chamber's experiences with him say he's scum, I'm all ears. I'd still like to analyze his meta for myself.

[Ether]

Cogito Ergo Sum that is stupid.

And Glork's been pretty pathetically out of contact with me if I'm on that list. I wonder if he's even been talking to PJ.

[Ether]

Glork and Shanba are both very clearly town. I can try to compare Shanba's play here to what he did in Boost, but the tl;dr is that he always pulls this shit, and he's pretty obvsincere when he does show up.

Why aren't you voting HackerHuck?

[Ether]

Guess.

Why are you wasting your time chatting with the vig instead of scumhunting? Was writing my vote off as OMGUS without so much as stating what it said about my alignment supposed to make me unvote you?

[Ether]

In my timezone, the timestamp for that greeting was 3:11 am. And of course that wasn't my last post for the night. You were on 'Scum then. You'd been checking into 'Scum every so often, though of course you focused more on GD. I was so hoping to have a personal chat with you about your misdeeds, or see some semblance of actual effort from you.

I went to sleep late, HackerHuck. Yet I never got that conversation with you, and I never got to see you scumhunt. I'd better get them both right now.

[Ether]

With the caveat that I haven't sen Shanba as scum recently, I am pretty sure that he's town and Glork just doesn't know what he's talking about. (Though Glork is also town.) Elaborate on the Glork/Crash argument?

[Ether]

Elaborate on Huck.

[Ether]

I don't really see voting someone with literally no votes at the time at less than 24 hours to deadline as something that town is more likely to do. He didn't keep pushing it, though he came back and made a post after Mert was already at -2. I don't think he was expecting a Mertlynch when he placed the vote; he just thought he was hiding comfortably off-wagon, and ran with it.

Glork, what do you think about Shanba's behavior toward Ectomancer?

[Ether]

The Yoskill was pretty awful. (Of course, I was kind of hoping to have myself sorted out and defend him

today

, and we see how that worked out.)

[Ether]

Ooh, and he vanishes without comment.


I could be wrong on Huck I guess.

Heh.

[Ether]

This discussion is no longer interesting to me. Let's discuss Porochaz.

[Ether]

Apparently his post about being V/LA was yesterday and we're just posting fast. Scratch that; we can harass somebody else.

Glork, no chance you know about the CDB meta that chamber was referring to earlier?

[Ether]

Looks like Porochaz is online after all. Hi!

[Ether]

Hey, Gurgi.

You should help me lynch HackerHuck. He's just logged out and avoided yet another possible confrontation with me.

[Ether]

It still stuns me that a fogeys game would put any value whatsoever in votecount analysis, but whatever. I think that you're using it to distance yourself from saying something that's actually meaningful.

I

am

amused that you're

not

looking to have a chat with someone who's supposedly in your top two (assuming that's been true for a while--you've been pretty vague). Aren't you supposed to be trying to figure out if I'm scum, HackerHuck?

[Ether]

Huck, it's cool that you're taking a different approach to find scum. Whatever people have been doing hasn't been working. But it's impossible to get a read on you if you just play the odds based on where scum are likely or not likely to be. Would love to see more from you like:

What may be more important is that Ythill is calling Yos' lack of voting trail scummy while not being so concerned about MBL's.

even if you're wrong, it gives more info on you. And we need more info on everyone.

Do you think HackerHuck is scum?

As for my meta, I could go on for hours.

It's...probably clear to everyone by this point that I'm only effective when I've got a combo running. The longer it's been since my last post, the harder it is for me to make a new one, and I can pretty much only develop useful reads once my nails are securely in place. That just doesn't happen at all when I'm scum; the differences aren't subtle at all, and I'm probably one of the ten easiest people to read on the site if you know what you're doing. (I used to hammer this in constantly, until I realized that I wasn't getting lynched either way and I was sick of talking about myself.) I don't really know how I'd play as replacementscum specifically, or even if I'd still be the person controlling this slot. The last time I was scum, I was constantly putting off posting until late night/early morning, making a post a few paragraphs long and falling right back into my regular patterns without so much as one of the late night marathons you saw from me here on Day 2. I could give links, but really, I'd rather just not.

Gurgi, you should answer because this is an invitational and there are some things people gotta know about us flashy invitational types.

[Ether]

different from my play in this game?

I think both of you haven't emphasized the second half of this question enough.

Now I am sleeping.

[Ether]

Yeah...I just came back because I realized that that's completely correct.

Eventually I will sleep, dammit.

[Ether]

That's easy, Shanba and Ythill. Glork sucks too hard in this game to be scum.

That's a serious observation. If he were confident and in control, it could really go either way and I'd have no clue how to read him. (I read him accurately as scum in my last game with him--but the mechanics there forced the scum to act strangely, and I think I was constantly reading him as scum before that too. Still, I think there's a bit I've picked up from them. His selfmeta is totally believable, too.)

PS. Vote HackerHuck.

[Ether]

I'm going to use this post to lament that Glork has turned into a soulless bum who won't even make some sort of off-hand "I love you too"-esque retort after my analysis. I bet PJ misses him. ._.

Even though I said something pro-voting bloc at one point, really I just want my town reads to stop fighting each other so I can stop worrying about them and lynch the scum proper-like. (My only three strong town reads at this point are Shanba, Glork and of course Ythill. I am still bitter about Yosarian's death.)

[Ether]

Have you read all of Day 2?

[Ether]

Er. Also Day 3.

I've decided to display a blatant lack of empathy and assume that getting you on the Ether Schedule will fix your issues with the game. You are now expected to post in this thread every half hour for the rest of your life.

[Ether]

Five minutes left, man.

This is important for your sake, ChannelDelibird. This is a spiritual journey that took me years to realize in myself.

[Ether]

I am

deeply

disappointed. The Ether Schedule will take all of the pain away and make you enjoy mafia again. I am prepared to sing about it if you are unconvinced.

How come you're worried about Glork and MBL? Glork is fabulously obvtown; MBL is...probably also town as well.

[Ether]

You don't want to sheep on Glork for the same reason that he is town. If he were scum, at least he'd be bussing, you know?

MBL I dunno about. Sheeping on me is of course always a good policy.

[Ether]

CES! How come you're still voting Shanba?

[Ether]

CES! How come you were ever voting Shanba?

Ythill, stop avoiding the Huckwagon. Huck is scum. Porochaz only might be scum. We will interrogate him about this when he is not V/LA over a funeral.

[Ether]

I dunno if I should be posting right now. Earlier when I was trying to formulate a response to Yos it just turned into a rant in my head. I dunno. Are you trying to bait me? Like, I have put serious spadework into these discussions too. It's not obviously untrue, if it were fucking obviously untrue then I wouldn't be fucking saying it would I. Jesus Christ Yos, this game, like, no one and I mean no one has been able to come up with an attack on you that you haven't immediately dismissed as stupid and laughable, but that's so fucking ridiculous. I mean, look at the fucking playerlist? Is everyone attacking you scum? Or are we all morons who can't see how townie you are? Or perhaps, just perhaps, you're just unable to accept that yeah, people do have a frigging point. You have spouted some insane little things this game - e.g. MBL not scumhunting, also e.g. some of your comments on chamber. You're probably just scum and I shouldn't rise to this, but hell.

What is it I'm not seeing? What the hell is it? You kept saying how much you were trying to understand Ectomancer, too, but that's patently untrue. He spent furfriggingever trying to explain why his scumhunting was only giving weak reads, but no one gave a shit. And then you just dismiss it saying "oh he was doc docs look like scum". Like wtf. I said it before and I'll say it again, the only reason I can see for you moving on to Ectomancer was the fact that he was making a fuss. Cause his scumhunting was simply not abnormally low in comparison with various others in the game. And you totally blanked on chamber. Go read that this again. WHY? WHY DID YOU SUDDENLY SHIFT FOCUS FROM CHAMBER TO ECTO? From your stated positions in the game, it makes no sense, none at all. Why did you not start pressuring other low content players? In brief, why switch and why ecto? Neither is clear. Neither is obvious.

Damn your manipulative little emotional outburst. Damn it to hell and back. Like what are you hoping to achieve with that? How dare you say I'm insulting you? I am not fucking insulting you. Your play this game IS SCUMMY. Like, there is no other way to describe it.

So what you are saying is scum typed this.

That's pretty paranoid, Ythill.

[Ether]

Obviously the first part of that post was addressed to CES and the second part was addressed to Ythill. I mean, Ythill can have them both if he wants.

[Ether]

So where the fuck is Crash?

[Ether]

Hi, MBL! Discuss HackerHuck.

I know that chamber's been glancing at the thread lately. I also know that he's due for a prod in about three hours. Hello, chamber.

[Ether]

How's that full reread going?

[Ether]

Yeah I know that feeling. Way easier to keep track of things by actually being involved in the game.

Anything you wanna note? I think you should move to HackerHuck if you're having issues with your own reads. Hopefully CDB will sort himself out, but I dunno; I'd still give pretty high odds that he's just counting time.

[Ether]

...

You're...reading it from the start?

[Ether]

Jeez. Um, you want me to stay online? You gonna be all right? Are you sure all of this is more important than just isolating posts?

[Ether]

Ah.

You do that. I'm staying on until you find something and note it.

[Ether]

Quite sure. Why?

[Ether]

There aren't a whole lot of games to actually pick from. (I did trick Glork in my first newbie game, but I don't think my play there was particularly good, and of course this newbie game is four and a half years old.) Here's Mini 771 (php2 version for the filter), where I tricked Incognito and a couple of other people with metas on me early on before getting caught by a watcher on Day 2. I think the contrast is still pretty obvious after random voting was out of the way.

[Ether]

If I don't do it in one go stuff doesnt stick properly.

Sooooooooo I'm assuming that's a failure then.

[Ether]

Hmm. The Ether Schedule does get sort of old if you're constantly septupleposting. So how's

your

reread going, CDB?

[Ether]

On the contrary, I think I'm going to be sick of Chamber very soon; I don't see the parallels at all. My vote, ungilded, should speak for itself. (Off the top of my head, only one person has explicitly asked me for a case, and that's just because Porochaz isn't paying attention.)

Make a List, Huck.

[Ether]

And if you're seriously trying to read me, at all? I did give pretty clear instructions, heh.

[Ether]

Really.

[Ether]

I hate you all.

[Ether]

Let's

not

start off the new page with a power role slapfight, thanks.

unvote

I don't

want

to vote Porochaz because he's V/LA and that feels kinda useless, but he's the person I'd give the single highest odds of being scum at this point. I'm annoyed that Crash is in the same position. Ugh.

Chamber, tell me why I should vote CDB instead of you.

[Ether]

Glork, no chance you have any clue how to read CES? 'Cause I sure as hell don't.

[Ether]

Go for it. There's so many people here who are either V/LA or promising rereads that even I've tempered myself down.

[Ether]

I believe Crash, but I'm still against a Glork lynch. One-shot vs. infinite isn't a full counterclaim, though it could imply sanity weirdness. I think Glork's town--but even if I were unsure, it'd still be strategic to keep him alive.

[Ether]

Town, assuming they're not fakeclaiming and not a godfather and Glork is a sane cop
Ythill
Crash
Shanba
Glork
MBL
HackerHuck

Town because duh:
Ether

That's seven people(!). If they're all town, then that puts exactly one townie in {chamber, ChannelDelibird, Cogito Ergo Sum, Lord Gurgi, Porochaz}.

Is that plausible? I'm not saying that rhetorically; I'm just wondering if we can write off one or two people of those people from their associations with each other and go in for the kill.

[Ether]

On the flipside:

MBL, why'd you ask Glork about his sanity when he had an innocent on you? Were you really worried about naivety? What were you thinking about HackerHuck?

[Ether]

Heeeeeeeeeeeey, Chamber.

[Ether]

It's interesting that the cop crumbs and whatnot seemed to start D2 and Glork definately went into N2 knowing that he was going to claim to have investigated HH.

Because he's a cop.

Unless someone wants to claim watcher here, a one-shot cop is not a replacement to a full-blown one, balance-wise, and that should be incredibly obvious to everyone here.

Having said that, I'm kind of coming around to him not being sane: one-shot cop + insane cop just sort of has a nice sort of parity to it. (And I'm totally biased: I'm all for HackerHuck being scum.) An MBL lynch is a compromise I am willing to make.

[Ether]

I don't know what you just said. Elaborate?

[Ether]

Ythill thinks you're scum because he thinks you're scum with Glork. I think Glork is probably an insane cop, and got an innocent on you because you're scum.

The first part, Gurgi.

[Ether]

MBL, why'd you ask Glork about his sanity when he had an innocent on you? Were you really worried about naivety? What were you thinking about HackerHuck?

By the way, you might want to actually answer me.

[Ether]

I...still don't know what you're getting at.

[Ether]

You mean that I think that Glork and Crash are both telling the truth, and it's not a "one of them is a cop and one is lying scum" situation? Yes.

[Ether]

Glork, does your role explicitly say that you

aren't

confirmed?

[Ether]

Something like that. My plan was always to put you off until I could see a few interactions and shit; Ythill's stance on Glork forced my hand there.

Incidentally, I've seen his paranoia rising up. If he really needs me to explain in excruciating detail why I'm town to make him feel better, I could arrange that.

[Ether]

I changed my mind after rethinking stuff in light of a fuckton of claims and new information. You can portray it how you like, but it's pretty stupid to write something like that off that way. (Incidentally, the flipflop that got inHim lynched is the biggest tell in your favor in my eyes.)

Wheeeeeeee setup speculation post.

Why insane, Ether, and not naive? If Glrok is a non-sane cop, naive is the best explanation (also: less swingy).

Um, no it's not? You'd think there'd be a strongish information role somewhere. Naïve cop + one-shot cop + watcher is getting pretty convoluted for Patrick.

Ether - do you think that 4 scums is the only option balance-wise with a vig and two sane cops?

I do not think that Patrick would, under any circumstances, put any number other than 4 scum into an 18-player game. (Also, a one-shot cop is not a full-blown cop in any way; stop pretending it is.)

[Ether]

An "ellipsis...uh, let's say he's also town" read is not as strong as you're suggesting it is. Speaking as someone who actually

has

strong town reads.

[Ether]

I know what you're trying to get across. And it's ridiculous, but I don't care enough what you think about me to have this kind of back and forth with you. You've already gotten my reaction to the "inconsistency."

[Ether]

So what do you think about all the claims, MBL? Who's scum?

[Ether]

Ythill, post if you're here. I'm typing some constipated responses post, and I

hate

doing those, but I think you and I need to have a chat outside of that.

I think votecount analyses are shit, but the one on CDB right now is pretty interesting. Where'd chamber get his ass to anyway?

[Ether]

I'm game.

[Ether]

I want your attention proper-like.

But in the meantime, you can explain your Gurgi read. That's something you can divide your attention over.

[Ether]

I'm hurt, Ythill. You read me as town when I was a miserable shadow of my proper self, and began developing fears of me as "confident scum" when I took control. Now that we're going process of elimination, I suppose I'll have to claw myself back onto the fun side, even if these next few hours will not be fun for me.

I suppose first I'll have to deconstruct your hatred of selfmeta. Whew. That's not gonna be fun.

[Ether]

No. When I say "ten easiest people to read on the site," it's not something I say lightly.

Your last post in this thread before getting sucked into your MMO was to ask me to meta myself. How'd that go anyway?

[Ether]

Well, to be fair, it was to give you a link with a bit of my own assessment. Question stands.

-

To MBL:

The stance on Shanba is one I'd probably have taken with someone I didn't know; meta only helped a little. ("Pure meta" sounds like you're trying to downplay my reads, but that's stupid: meta is one of the most reliable methods there is.) I was leaning town on him before he made the post for reasons I don't remember, and his emotional outburst cemented it. Meta did help me tune a bit: I know Shanba's one of those kinda lurky types, so I tolerated his stuff from Day 1 more.

suddenly you believe his counterclaim of a cop you've felt all game is town?

Why is this questionable? I've made it clear that I still think Glork is town, but do

you

think scum would counterclaim there? You're not the only on who looked through his posts, MBL.

While asking others repeatedly to provide evidence and opinions on Huck.

Who are these "others" you speak of? Seriously. There was Porochaz, two posts after my original vote, and HackerHuck himself. Everyone else seemed to think my vote was pretty self-explanatory. I'm pretty sure

you

didn't make any effort to ascertain my train of thought back then.

I think he's scummy for reasons other people have already given (even if I was thinking them first). He flew way too far under the radar for my comfort on Days 1 and 2, and is still coasting on his list without actually looking for or making the slightest effort to get scum lynched.

Unlike chamber, MBL, you

did

explicitly ask me to meta myself. And I explicitly told you what an easy read I was. Do you ever even follow up on your questions, MBL? When Shanba--you know, that guy who Crash cleared--gives you the answer you're holding out for, will you care?

[Ether]

I wanted to talk about myself, but I'm always happy to talk about other people too. "Nice for now" isn't good enough, you know? So I'm kind of waiting for you to dispute my assertion that I'm as easy to read as I claim to be. Do you think I'm lying? Do you think I'm lying to myself (which admittedly wouldn't make sense if I were scum, and doesn't seem very relevant for this specific game if I'm town)?

I...don't see a problem with that assumption at all. I don't have the numbers, but I think you VCA types try to see patterns where there aren't any. Let me see if I remember any probability and get back to this.

I

do

find it interesting that CDB looks like the fallguy so far. I dunno if chamber was reading this and trying to stick to his vote without saying anything, or in one of those guilt spirals like I do where he's subconsciously avoiding the hell out of the thread. I obviously don't trust CES, and I'm still not writing off Glork as sane. (If I was, there'd be a much narrower decision. If I lynch in the five, but keep my paranoia, it seems straightforward enough to satisfy both possibilities.)

[Ether]

This idea that a person who knows its meta can change it is a myth. You already saw my little spirals on Day 2. I'm very aware that I do that; it's been noted in my wiki and everything. Are you really assuming that, as town, I had perfect control over

those

? And that's a very easy lack of discipline there. It's a lot simpler than a whole playstyle. You really should see the last flashy semi-invitational I was in as scum: I was pleasantly surprised that I could even change my

syntax

.

Game's very close to process of elimination, so it's my job to bring it even closer. And you're talking the most. (shrug) Plus, I'm already fed up with you for your stances on Glork and Yosarian. I like you out of game and all, but in-game I think you're a paranoid fuck who really needs (yet another) talking to.

[Ether]

Heh. I don't think there's anyone I'm still really reverent toward beyond basic camaraderie. Maybe Thesp. I've gotten bitter in my old age.

Oh, pulling all-nighters is something I would absolutely do as scum. Never claimed it, not gonna deny it. But there is still really obvious stuff. Post count, for one. Interest. Last time I was scum, I was posting

exclusively

at the deepest hours of the premorning. That was 'cause I kept putting off the game because I didn't want to look at it. That's like in the little spirals in this game--like the one that I've said kept me from checking in as inHim got lynched--but as town I have a second, manic mode as well.

Sure.

vote: Porochaz

is good by me. I should still look at interactions; I think I'm subconsciously avoiding chamber a bit because he was my fallback vote yesterday.

[Ether]

Um, good question. My vote involved thinking Porochaz was a common denominator, but consciously I'm not sure that's actually true. I'm also not sure I want to do deep psychoanalysis at six in the morning, but feel free to call me on this.

Chamber, start talking about CDB now. Also talk about your experiences and symptoms for your brand of guilt spiral.

The inHim thing was an example I gave. I can link to spirals like that in every game. It's something I'd happily get over if I could, but my point is that my scumgames are nothing

but

little spirals.

[Ether]

A tangent that, while probably interesting in theory for some people, is not remotely interesting to me and is certainly not something I want to dedicate a page to when I could be clearing myself and/or sleeping:

Yosarian2 (4) -- Glork, CrashTextDummie, Ythill, inHimshallibe
inHimshallibe (8) -- ChannelDelibird, Lord Gurgi, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, HackerHuck, Yosarian2, Porochaz, MrBuddyLee
Lord Gurgi (1) -- DrippingGoofball

Not voting: Ether, Shanba

15 town
8 people on the wagon
4 scum

8/15 * 1/2 * 6/13 * 5/12 = 2/39 odds of all four scum being on an 8-person wagon, if they vote

completely randomly.

But it's not a towntell any more than using the letter E is (and in a mini with 3 scum, 75% of people who use the letter E are town!). You probably don't see a ton of wagons like that, but I doubt it's less than 5.13%. In fact, I'd give reasonable odds that

more

than 5.13% of 8-person wagons have four scum on them.

That's just my intuition talking, though. I've never actually counted. I kind of suspect nobody else has either.

[Ether]

There are reasons to dismiss a Glork/MBL/CES/me team that are actually

valid

. I'm currently trying to get one such reason through your skull.

I'm annoyed because I sure as hell wouldn't mind sleeping, except I also have to talk to chamber and ugh.

[Ether]

She's less tired and more exasperated, really. She lives under a very arbitrary justice system.

[Ether]

...

Chamber, I see that you have signed out. We're talking tomorrow. Good night.

[Ether]

Because he's really obvtown and I don't have a clue where you pulled that number from?

[Ether]

Hi, MBL. Who's scum? What have you concluded from all the selfmetas you've gotten from people (especially mine, obv)?

[Ether]

For all I say about Glork--and Ythill is right; we're going for the common denominator today--I am not amused that he's vanished.

I am still hoping to get my chat in with chamber.

[Ether]

It has come to my attention that Porochaz has been ignoring a prod he picked up like seven hours ago.

[Ether]

How 'bout now?

[Ether]

Why Prozac instead of CDB?

It's like...CDB just always seemed more on everyone's radar to me. That wagon that happened when Crash was trying to get a DGBwagon going instead because CDB was explicitly V/LA? Stuff like that. And I stereotype CDB as being more likely to be an unstable flake regardless of his alignment. (Hi, CDB! Prove me wrong or admit to Patrick that you can't.) I can't say I have a secure meta on Porochaz either way, but I can say that his method of lurking for ages, analyzing everyone in the game and going back to lurking reminds me strongly of his play in Boost 2.

I am still waiting for my chat with chamber. Gurgi's also reached prod range.

[Ether]

This discussion is stupid.

[Ether]

You're sure we can't lynch him, Ythill?

[Ether]

I can't see a one shot cop being in a game with a full cop even with sanities. My knowledge of Patrick, whilst less than Ether's still makes me aware that he doesn't usually (to my recollection) do the more unusual normal roles and keeps to the basics. I am struggling to see why Ether has taken this to being 100% fact so easily.

All of the buildup you've typed here would imply that it's

Crash

you're questioning, not Glork. Glork claimed a perfectly normal role. I'm not really outguessing Patrick here; I think it could go either way, but I had a town read on Glork from before and don't see Crash's claim as a valid counterclaim.

Elaborate on "planned."

[Ether]

See this is why I'm trying to help! Knowing my alignment will increase morale and shit. I'm not doing it for my health. Well, not just that.

And you're sure we can't discuss why he's townish and get more eyes on it?

[Ether]

Massclaim? Nah. Just you and Porochaz.

I think it's very telling that you're shutting down at a buncha people getting cleared.

[Ether]

This is another of those times where I have no idea what you just said.

CES could very well be scum.

[Ether]

Pretty much everything except the last sentence. I'm okay with CEShate.

[Ether]

I'd lynch Huck.

Everyone else refuses to admit that they are in a similar position and simply choose to bandwagon easy people.

Perhaps you have missed the memo where your "easy people" are the leftovers after you take out everyone who's claimed and/or cleared. Which includes HackerHuck.

What's your opinion of chamber, Porochaz and ChannelDelibird?

[Ether]

I could swing a chamber lynch. Why aren't you voting him?

[Ether]

He's a witch.

[Ether]

I didn't actually check who was on it; I was running from memory. (And yes, I'm aware that I was on that wagon.)

But, um, yeah, I do think CES and chamber are both pretty likely to be scum. Since, assuming Glork is town, there are likely at least three scum in {CES, chamber, CDB, Porochaz, Gurgi}. Why, what do you think?

[Ether]

Chamber, start talking about CDB now. Also talk about your experiences and symptoms for your brand of guilt spiral.

[Ether]

Yes, that's why I want you to elaborate. Convince me why he is scum.

Link to your last two games as each alignment, offer commentary? I reserve the right to not actually read them, but still.

[Ether]

Why doesn't it make sense? I have to read him, and I have to read you.

MBL is good scum, but it's not something I'd worry about unless you and him and Glork have some fancy "let's all defend each other very hard!" plan going on. This is not my first guess.

[Ether]

I went to lie down. I have a worsening headache. Still do.

You haven't given the information the first time, aside from that you have a meta on CDB that I don't know about.

How many scum would you expect to find in {CDB, Porochaz, Gurgi, Ether, CES}?

[Ether]

1. Admit that you're bored with this game and struggling to keep a grip
   
2. Ask Ether to press you for more info; call her back when she tries to sleep
   
3. Dismiss her questions as antitown
   
4. Don't take your own initiative to do something pro-town
   
5. Admit that you're bored with this game and struggling to keep a grip

[Ether]

Okay stop talking about yourself and your theories now and do something. I'm going to bed.

[Ether]

But, um, yeah, I do think CES and chamber are both pretty likely to be scum. Since, assuming Glork is town, there are likely at least three scum in {CES, chamber, CDB, Porochaz, Gurgi}. Why, what do you think?

Despite what I previously said, I would not oppose a massclaim.

[Ether]

You're going to answer me first. You're also going to tell me why you didn't pose all that to me immediately, and were content not to ask me at all until I repeated my question and you needed to get out of actually answering it.

[Ether]

I'm frustrated.

[Ether]

What about CES?

[Ether]

I think you're probably scum.

Why are you pretending to suspect me when I'm the investigated innocent of the cop you are confident is town?

PS. Same question to you over Shanba and his selfmeta. (That's to MBL.)

[Ether]

Fine. Let's get this over with.

[Ether]

Huh? Scum killed DGB. I think this is the same speculation we already did at the start of the day.

[Ether]

...because they thought she was a vig, or very likely to be one?

Pretty sure we did this already, Ythill.

[Ether]

Sure? I'm not trying to twist this into a defense of him.

[Ether]

Porochaz just posted in Forum 62. I'm pretty sure he wasn't always set to invisible; I've seen him on the online list since this game started.

Yo, Porochaz. Claim or die.

[Ether]

Glork, how often are you checking in?

[Ether]

Claim now.

[Ether]

I'm in an awkward position where I rationally still think Glork is probably town, but another part of me is getting really sick of sticking up for him and ugh. I think his V/LA is biasing me, so meh.

I don't support no lynch.

Porochaz is in prod range. Chamber is getting close.

[Ether]

regardless of alignment

Noting the need for a qualifier.

[Ether]

Heh.