NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[mastin2]

Mastin2 replaces Snow White.

...At least, I

would

be, if I had a role PM. :/

(It's not showing up in my inbox...)

[mastin2]

No wonder Snow White flaked! She had no role PM to keep her interested in the game!

(

Mod?

)

[mastin2]

Well, thing is, I've read the whole thread (okay. So I skimmed pretty much all the walls--as a spectator, they bore me, quite frankly), but as a Spectator. I have to read the whole thread again as a Player to switch modes. (As a Spectator, I tend not to take notes and while I observe people, I flip-flop on them. A LOT. Only as a Player do my reads become solidified. I dunno why; it's just what I've noticed. I think keeping notes is the difference.) Pretty much the only thing I could give you right now is a "don't lynch the Neighbors; they're really Masons". (I'll elaborate if you want me to, since I spent over half an hour working it out in my head.)

[mastin2]

^For instance. I'll go "Hydra's sc--no, wait, that actually sounded tow--no, wait, it looks like it could be scu--AH, SCREW THAT!",
"Meransiel looks like obv-scu--wait, that wagon don't look right; he's confirmed to--wait, WHAT did he post?!? Well, he has to be sc--no, wait, that post actually looks like it came from a town mindset, so--actually looking at it again, he looks like...
...You know what? Nevermind. MOVING ALONG...",
"Why isn't AGM dead yet? He's obv-scu--wait, he looks like a mislyn--oh, no way would that post come from town! ...Or, would it? Meh, figure it out later."
And debating over the neighbors a lot (until I figured it out in my head).

Like I said. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a town PM. (I ALWAYS am town. ) But I'm not going to be able to effectively play until I receive it, despite knowing almost certainly what I'll get.

[mastin2]

Dang shoulda waited. Being a Neighbor is way more awesome than a mystery role.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: A Little VCA

(3) DemonHybrid - Iecerint, MagnaofIllusion, Hrezs

sap

AGM

The Demon wagon contains one scum, in my opinion. AGM is an honorary member for his "lynch a neighbor" standpoint.

MrBuddyLee, petroleumjelly

Both of these look pro-town.

Hrezs - DemonHybrid

I suddenly get a random town-vibe from Hrez.

(9) AlmasterGM - Yosarian2, Hydra, Meransiel, earworm, Shanba, SensFan, PBuG,

DemonHybrid, kondi2424

pretty sure there's one scum bussing, or two scum here if not a bus. (It's possible my numbers are one too small, but I just got a vibe, a gut feeling, that there isn't more than 1/2 on there.) It's not the Neighbors (unless we're in a dual-faction game, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it). But I'll be focusing my reads here.

[mastin2]

...Crud, forgot the closing spoiler tag.

But, eh. Not that long of a post.

Anyway. I'll be doing a massive amount of re-reading. Definitely won't finish by deadline, but I'll almost certainly be working on the assumption of an AGM flip. (Which means split reads, between him being Town and him being Scum.) If the votecount is correct, there is literally no other wagon even close, and of those that could be (Parama/Demon), I'd support neither.

[mastin2]

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe
Give the scum a lotta rope.

Vote: Parama

[mastin2]

Meransiel, you're town.

No need to explain yourself further.

[mastin2]

Meransiel, you're town.

No need to explain yourself further.

I NEED TO EXPLAIN MYSELF FURTHER. NOW ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!

Multiple kills?

FoS: Meransiel

for how he has started his play for Day Two. Looks to me like a scumpartner had a good idea during the night to "explain" why you would ask such a question, and now you are a bit overeager to "explain" it yourself. (Although this reasoning largely presumes scum cannot daytalk).

I don't think there was quite enough pressure on meran yesterday to justify taking that big of a risk in calling attention to it, and I am curious to see what he is trying to say anyway.

saporovirus, why don't you think there was "quite enough pressure" on Meransiel to justify him to

explain

one of the big reasons people were voting for him? Meransiel was the second-biggest wagon we had on Day One.

There was enough for him to try to explain AT THE TIME, but it seems like any sort of plan they fabricated to "explain" would come off as too artificial...

Ok, never mind, this is going into crazy WIFOM land. Let it just suffice to say, I want to see if meran's eagerness is actually genuine, because it might be BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE ABOUT TO SAY SOMETHING BRILLIANT IDK.

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe
Give the scum a lotta rope.
If they holler, let 'em know:
They will always have my vote.

HoS: Sa-po-ro

Mod: V/LA Friday 7/8 until Monday 7/11.

[mastin2]

I was hoping that this could wait until Demon had posted, but with the vig kill already known...

Claim: Psychiatrist

.

I didn't target anyone N1 because I asked the mod about what would happen if I targeted the SK, and the mod said they'd become a VT--and I wanted the SK to act like a true vig, for at least one night. Since we apparently have a vig AND an SK, now I can safely cure the SK.

Demon, you're the SK, right?

Could you be a good lil' SK and lynch Parama? You KNOW he's scum, right?

[mastin2]

Claim: Mod-confirmable role.

I'll look at the votes, see how close I am to a lynch, and make the decision on whether to PM the mod and reveal.

@mastin, why'd you claim that role now?

Gambit to get Demon to claim SK. I'm convinced we've got a 1-1-1 neighborhood, but wanted Demon to confirm it. Asked the mod last night about a Psychiatrist, since I thought that it'd work.

But those blasted Normal Guidelines...

[mastin2]

L-2.

Claim: Innocent Child

Sending PM to the mod.

[mastin2]

(For the record, voting order was
PJ -- town.
Meransiel -- town. [Obv-town before claim, conf-town after.]
Parama -- scum.
Iecrint -- town. [Vig.]
Demon -- SK.
Sapo -- HEAVY scum lean.)

[mastin2]

Why?

Spoiler: Case

FoS: AGM

You die

once we get this

policy lynch

out of the way.

vote: petroleumjelly

for the questionable content of his first post.

He... hasn't posted yet?

(Tone)

Hydras gonna fail
^the moral of the story

(Tone)

Just thought I'd let you know all these things.

Code: Select all

[b]vote: kondi[/b]

Everyone who doesn't copy+paste+post the above goes onto my scumspects list.

(Tone)

DAMMIT.
I JUST CONFIRMED THE TOPIC TITLE. SCREW YOU SENSFAN FOR PUSHING ME ONTO THE NEXT PAGE.

(Tone, SensFan was town)

Dh we're like the flying ninja bros.

except I'm only getting ninja'd and not ninja'ing'ing.

(Tone, Buddying.)

if I do I'll wake up to a 9001 page thread full of kondi votes though. that'd suck. exept for the parts about kondo votes.

(Tone, Motive.)

I actually don't disagree with AGM at all.
kondi's still a better lynch but if that Hydra Hydra Hydra Hydra doesn't start playing like a Hydra Hydra Hydra Hydra then they can go too.

(Buddying, Opportunism.)

3 dudes are quick wagoning up a guy.
4th dude comes in and...doesn't join quick wagon, or even comment on it, and votes someone else entirely.

Why does that matter?

OKAY GUYS I'M REALLY LEAVING NOW

SEE YOU ALL TOMORROW MORNING ON PAGE 674.

(Tone.)

I have 53 cents in my pocket, and there's two dollars lying on the counter a few feet away. So I'll take the thread for 2 cents.

(Tone.)

Pfffhaahahaahaha "Quite Important"? Why?

(MoI.)

The point stands that you need to be able to read better.

(Tone, Strawmanning.)

Lower than average, since he was the one who suggested outing the neighborhood. Then again, MoI's catch is pretty good... THEN AGAIN, if DH cared about how he looked, he probably wouldn't have posted that comment in the first place. It's very much a nulltell, really. So yeah, DH is probably town, and I don't want to lynch him today.

(Fencesitting, Opportunism, Buddying, Tone, MoI)

P-Edit:
Hey look, MBL's recent post contributes nothing under the premise of trying to look like he's contributing something.
Just throwing that one out there.

(Opportunism, Tone, Hypocrisy)

Hydra

why the hell are you still voting kondi

oh wait

(Tone)

hey moai
kondi's post in the QT is incredibly vague, btw
I had no clue what he was talking about when he said "confirmed"
didn't get it until he explained
and when he explained he townslipped
at which point DH unvoted
I'm actually not seeing the problem here. at all.

(MoI, Tone)

(lurky lurk + DH's story of why they decided to out the neighborhood reads like Parama is scum trying to get townpoints when faced with a bad situation. ("Oh shit, if I say let's not out the neighborhood he'll think I'm scum" tell. And yes I realize this is WIFOM. That's why he's on the watch list.)

Oh god. This is hilarious.
I haven't been posting recently. This is because of lazy, and doesn't apply to just this game.
However, please note that I have more posts than anybody else in the game. LURKY LURKY LURK LURK ALL RIGHT.
Your hypothetical situation assumes I'm scum to make an argument as to why I may be scum.
WIFOMing away your own arguments means you did nothing but waste space.

I'll read over the boring stuff later.

(Tone, Strawmanning, Reverse-Strawmanning Self.)

Ooh, nice call. One of 5 players is likely to be scum. That's probably true statistically, too. Great job, sherlock.

(MoI, Tone)

Parama’s

240

pings my scumdar.

This is the second time you've said this, and the second time you haven't explained.

(MoI)

It means IDGAF about your posts.

(MoI, Tone, Strawman)

(MoI, Tone, Strawman)

Y'know what it's time for methinks?

unvote, vote: MoI

he's scum. Lots of misrep and he's happy to dodge any question thrown his way. He's on the "lynch the neighbors" wagon, and it's because he knows we're all town.
Still hasn't explained either of the times where I "tripped one of his personal scumtells" or "pinged his scumdar".
I could probably write several books on his posting thus far if I ever felt bored enough to do a PBPA. I was just getting bad vibes at first but now it's definitely something worth pursuing.

(MoI, Tone, OMGUS, Strawman, Reverse-Strawmanning Self)

*yawn*

I'd rather see MoIscum lynched. I'm too lazy to attack multiple people at once, anywho.

(MoI, Tone)

1. dealwithit
2. dealwithit
3. dealwithit

dealwithit

PJ, I don't give a damn about what you want.

(Tone, ? [Exact Word Escapes Me])

vote: mastin2

YAY I CAN PUT OFF READING FOR A DAY

By the way all large normal setups get reviewed so the setup can't possibly be illegal.

(Tone, Panicking Scum, Opportunism, Parroting)

PJ, the problem is I have no clue what this game is about. All my reads would be from page 10 or so. I WILL read eventually, hopefully sooner than later, but until then,

SCREW OFF.

(Tone, Soon-To-Be-PJ)

(Immediate Parama Suspicion.)

(Parama.)

(Neighbor.)

(Neighbor Suspicion.)

(Neighbor.)

(Neighbor.)

(Primarily Neighbor Suspicion; Demon; Parama.)

(Partially Neighbor.)

Parama’s 240 pings my scumdar.

(Parama)

(Parama.)

(Parama.)

(Neighbor.)

(Neighbor.)

(Etc.)

MagnaofIllusion - Town Alien has been shot.

(Dead For A Reason)

PJ, Meransiel (town),

Parama

, Iecrint (town-vig),

Demon

(SK),

Sapo

(Scum?)

If two scum factions, it's 1-1-1: MafA-MafB-Town, MafA-SK-Town, or MafB-SK-Town. Temptation way too high to pass that up.

Wait.

"ReaperCharlie was shot Pre-Game.
Empking was shot Pre-Game."

Two deaths. That means two scum factions, or scum and an SK.

Either way, The neighborhood is 1-1-1.

SensFan - Vanilla Townie

has been shot.

PBuG - Vanilla Townie

has been instantaneously poisoined.

MagnaofIllusion - Town Alien

has been shot.

Day 2 commences.

I am a vigilante. I shot SensFan last night.

(Eliminates One Kill Source As Suspect)

Wait I just realized.

kondi

townslipped. Awesome. 1 confirmed town.

(Kondi town, other two therefore scum)

FoS: AGM

You die once we get this policy lynch out of the way.

Reinforces the 1-1-1 theory...

Parama's response in # 10 does not look town.

Demon-->SK,
Parama-->Scum.

Or Demon-->Scum A,
Parama-->Scum B.

Doesn't matter which; their interactions on page one aren't town, especially considering Hydra is town.

1. DemonHybrid

5. saporovirus
6.

Parama

8. Hrezs*

9. PBuG*

(Hrez weak town-lean)

tl;dr?

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe
Give the scum a lotta rope.
If they holler, let 'em know:
They will always have my

Vote:
Parama

(wagon's a go!
Please, help and Make It So!)

[mastin2]

Also, I need to slightly revise my reads.

Parama's obv-scum, of course. But my notes had the suspect list as six players.

Three of which are now confirmed town. (MoI [yes, I suspected MoI as bussing Parama, and vice-versa], PBuG [that's Demon's SK kill, by the way], and Iecerint [now confirmed-vig].) In a game I estimated to have four scum. With one of the remaining three names (Hrez) being a weak town read.

(The remaining two?
Parama and Sapo.)

I mis-cleared two people as town who're actually scum.

[mastin2]

Wow, I can't defend against a non-case.

Lynch him, lynch him, Pa-ra-ma,
'Cause he's ob-vi-ous scum, duh.
Let's make sure to Hang 'Em High,
Just to make sure he will Die.
Lynch him, lynch him, Pa-ra-ma...
'Cause he's ob-vi-ous scum, Duh...

[mastin2]

Parama obviously didn't read the case well enough.

@Mastin: Why did you have a scum read on PBuG?

As I said, Process of Elimination. That was pretty much it. The list had seven names, including Demon. Hrez was almost off of it, due to being a (very weak) town-read. Three names on it are now confirmed town. So, at a minimum, I false-cleared one player, potentially (if Hrez is town) two.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why are you considering Parama over DH? You just really think DH is the SK because of the PBuG kill?

No, I concluded by looking at the first four pages that Demon looked like a classic SK, and Parama looked like classic scum. Additionally, with a SK, a 1-1-1 neighborhood is just too tempting to not follow through on.

This is likely the main reason both Demon and Parama have to call it an all-town neighborhood--because if they don't, then they've effectively scumclaimed via them mutually agreeing Kondi was town.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why are you considering Parama over DH? You just really think DH is the SK because of the PBuG kill?

No, I concluded by looking at the first four pages that Demon looked like a classic SK, and Parama looked like classic scum. Additionally, with a SK, a 1-1-1 neighborhood is just too tempting to not follow through on.

This is likely the main reason both Demon and Parama have to call it an all-town neighborhood--because if they don't, then they've effectively scumclaimed via them mutually agreeing Kondi was town.

I MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT THEORY.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO REVEAL IT YET.

The alternative is two scumteams. Either way, Reveal Or Die--I think you're scum; prove me wrong.

[mastin2]

Lynch around the Neigh-bors,
Do it as a fa-vor...
Kill them, kill them,
Or we all fall down...

(Kondi excluded, of course.)

Logical fallacy:
Even if DH was SK, he wouldn't know for sure or not whether I was town.
Your argument assumes me and DH know each others' alignments, yet you also suggest we're not the same alignment.

And where did I say you knew each other's alignments?

I didn't.

You looked like scum.
Demon looked like a SK.

What alignments you thought each other to be is irrelevant and indetermineable for everyone except Kondi's replacement.

[mastin2]

It's called intuition, Parama. You can figure out that you're in a 1-1-1 setup the exact same way I did, and realize that if people think it's 1-1-1, you're screwed.

Demon could do the exact same thing.

It'd be an unspoken word in the QT--never brought up, not mentioned so much as a single time. Both wouldn't necessarily think the other was thinking about it, but both would be thinking about it individually.

[mastin2]

A 1-1-1 neighborhood did come to mind at one point yesterday. Didn't seem like it merited mentioning without knowing if an sk existed or not (still a possibility it doesn't if we have vig+mafia extrakill).

I still think DH is scum
don't know about Parama, he might be the sk? I have issues reading sks

Right names!

Wrong conclusion!

You got it backwards. Demon's the SK, and as long as the SK shoots like a second vig, I have no problem keeping them around. (Until the day before lylo, when they have to go.) Parama's the scum.

You've never played with mastin before, have you?

Technically, PJ hasn't under that name. PJ did as an alt, waaaaaaaaay back when I was still a newbie, in early '09. Probably didn't even remember me there--I wasn't a very notable player at the time. (It was my first non-Newbie game.) That came mid-'09 to late-'09.

I still have some reading to do, since I skimmed a lot of the comments made between my Psychiatrist claim and my role reveal. (Blasted Details. I always make 'minor' miscalculations with stuff like that. >_<)

But, well, initial reads:

TOWN:
Kondi (obv)
Iecerint (also obv)
Meransiel (and was also obv before claim)

HONORARY TOWN (SK):
Demon

LIKELY TOWN:
PJ
Hydra

SCUM:
Parama
Sapo

9/14 names which I have a fairly good alignment read on.

I had a lot more than this before, but like I said, I false-cleared someone, so I need to re-read and I'm not confident of any other reads enough to call town.

2. earworm Ythan
8. Hrezs*
11. MrBuddyLee*
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba*

Two of the names up there are scum, and I had town-reads on all of them. Meaning, three were deserved, two were not. Considering three of these names are vets with join dates waaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier than mine (October 8, 2008--and I didn't start playing 'til February '09...and I took a long hiatus late-'09 'til late-'10), this is gonna be tricky. (I quite frankly suck at reading vets. I followed along with Oldy Mafia and consistently made wrong calls as to who the scum were.)

[mastin2]

If you think about it, PJ has only one more name on that list than I do--Hydra.

My list consisted of five neutrals, two scum, and one SK. Which comes out to eight names.

PJ's list is exactly the same, only including Hydra in it as well.

[mastin2]

Back, ish. Skimmed the walls, and say that Yosarian2 definitely came out of the losing end in the argument. Additionally, Demon's confirmed my SK read, which (by proxy) confirms my scumread on Parama.

[mastin2]

no I am posting it all at once so your minds all get simultaneously blown

it's already 6 pages in MS word
no quotes because quote stripes died with moi

Tch, only six?

Bah, you're not walling 'til it's at least triple that. My record's thirty pages higher than that!

[mastin2]

There's two words I have in mind when reading someone. Chainsaw defense.

Coincidentally, I was reading the earlier pages being talked about right now in PJ vs. Yos. I didn't finish gathering my thoughts, so don't really have some super-awesome feedback, yet.

[mastin2]

The two paragraphs are separate thoughts. The first links to a sapo post essentially attacking you. Which I see as looking like quite a (Tarh version) Chainsaw Defense.

The second is commenting on how I'm doing a reread on the area you and Yos2 are debating, by coincidence.

[mastin2]

I realize you might not see the attack, but it's there for me, in the Tone of the post. It seems openly hostile towards you, PJ.

[mastin2]

Passive aggressive in this case was (correct me if I'm wrong, PJ) calling you a suspect. Which--while theoretically hostile in that town players want to get scum lynched--does not give off a hostile tone.

Your response, did.

[mastin2]

Toasty, mind explaining to me why your list contains exactly three names with asterisks next to them? (If you just pulled the DGB slip, I will lol. Very hard. Those names being Hrez, Pine/Earworm/Ythan, and MBL.)

I checked the prods list to make sure it wasn't that, and, well, it's not.

[mastin2]

I'm disappointed nobody commented on my move last night. (Maybe I shoulda backed it up with a vote--woulda made it look a little more convincing.)

[mastin2]

Indeed, Sap's scum, seriously bad scum, but Parama's bigger-scum.

[mastin2]

Dang it.

Another name from Oldy Mafia.

Replacing a name on the list of "two scum, three town".

I hate reading vets. >_<

[mastin2]

For the record, my cutoff seems to be 2007. People before 2007-->I can never read well. People during 2007-->50/50. People after 2007 (2008 onward)-->I can read decently. (If I had to guess, probably 75-80/20-25.) 2011 (newbies)-->95/5.

(Guess who the 5 is? He's in this game! )

[mastin2]

Siiiiiiiiileeeent niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Hoooooooooooooleeey niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Loooooooooook at scuuuuuuuuuuuum,
Aaaaas they fiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Lyyyyyyyynch with veeeeeengeaaaaaaaaance,
Muuurdeeer theeem wiiiiiiiiiiiiild...
Hoooooooooold doooooown theeeeeeeem,
Or Suffeeeer froooom Villllle...

SCUUUUUUUUM WHO NEEEEEEEEEEED TOOOO BEEEEEEEEE...
SCUUUUUUUUM WHO VIIIIIIIOLEENTLY DIIIE BY MEEEEEEEEEEE...

[mastin2]

*wall I didn't read...at all*

now go kill yourselves I'm not voting yet because of reasons that are obvious
I should never go V/LA ever again

Siiiiiiiiileeeent niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Hoooooooooooooleeey niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Loooooooooook at scuuuuuuuuuuuum,
Aaaaas they fiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Lyyyyyyyynch with veeeeeengeaaaaaaaaance,
Muuurdeeer theeem wiiiiiiiiiiiiild...
Hoooooooooold doooooown theeeeeeeem,
Or Suffeeeer froooom Villllle...

SCUUUUUUUUM WHO NEEEEEEEEEEED TOOOO BEEEEEEEEE...
SCUUUUUUUUM WHO VIIIIIIIOLEENTLY DIIIE BY MEEEEEEEEEEE...


Siiiiiiiiileeeent niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Hoooooooooooooleeey niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Pleeeeeeeeeeeease, Oh, Gooooooooooood,
Leeeeeeeeeeeeeet them diiiiiiiiiiiiie...

Weeeeeeeeeeeee'll be freeeeeeeeeeeeeee,
For tiiiiiiiiime aaaand spaaaaaaaaaace...
Toooooooooo have fuuuuuuuuuuuuuun,
And feeeeeeeeeel so greeeeeeeeeat...

FREEEEEEEEEEEE UUUUUS POOOOOOOOOOOR,
FROOOoooOOOOOOM THIIIS CUUUUUUUUUUUURSE....


Siiiiiiiiileeeent niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Hoooooooooooooleeey niiiiiiiiiiiiight...
Sheeeeeeeeeepheeeerds quaaaaaaaaaaaaake,
Aaaaaaaaaaaat theeeeeir siiiiiiiiight...

Goooooooo aannnd freeeeeeeeeze,
Scuuuuuuum, in your heeeeeeeeart...
Knooooooow that weeeeeeeeeeeee,
Poooooost kings shouuut for bloooooooood...

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT WITH EEEEEEVERY POOOOOOOUR IN YOOOOOOOUR
"MIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHTY" BOOOOOOOODY, FOOOOOOOOOR WEEEEEE'LL WANT MOOOORE...

Confirm

VOTE: Parama

[mastin2]

Wasting it?

Nah.

I'm developing reads.

Like that Shanba's scum WITH Parama and Sapo, for instance, but you knew that.

[mastin2]

So, Parama and Sapo are half of our scum.
I've expressed clear Yosarian2 suspicion.
I'm also quite suspicious of Shanba.

I'll be re-reading the game, to see if these four go well together as a complete scumteam.

[mastin2]

I had a lot more than this before, but like I said, I false-cleared someone, so I need to re-read and I'm not confident of any other reads enough to call town.

2. earworm Ythan
8. Hrezs*
11. MrBuddyLee*
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba*

Two of the names up there are scum

Not the best way of expressing it, but when you combine it with this:

Skimmed the walls, and say that Yosarian2 definitely came out of the losing end in the argument.

In other words, "Yos2 is looking like a scumread".

Like I said, though. I know Parama's scum, and STRONGLY suspect Sapo's scum as well. 2/4, but the remaining two, not as positive on. I know they're in that list, but am less certain as to who they are.

Hence, the need for a re-read to see if my current separated thoughts (AKA, "individual scumminess") are accurate. (AKA, "condemning interactions".) If they are, great! Got the scumteam! If they aren't, re-evaluate and find out how they're wrong, and find out from that what's right.

[mastin2]

Oh why, oh why, won't Paaaa-ra-ma die...
Oh why, can't we lyyyynch his kiiiiiind?!?
I've been tryyying to gooo,
Aaaand leeeeet you knoooow...
The scum-teeeam, will beee friiiiiiiied...

(Sorry, couldn't resist. Told myself Silent Night would be the last one, but I did some work on my novel [where the tune is used] and that tune got stuck in my head while I was thinking of this game. It just fell into place from there.)

[mastin2]

So, Parama and Sapo are half of our scum.
I've expressed clear Yosarian2 suspicion.
I'm also quite suspicious of Shanba.

I'll be re-reading the game, to see if these four go well together as a complete scumteam.

2. earworm Ythan
8. Hrezs*
11. MrBuddyLee*
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba*

Two of the names up there are scum

[Combined with this:]

Yosarian2 definitely came out of the losing end in the argument.

In other words, "Yos2 is looking like a scumread".

I know Parama's scum, and STRONGLY suspect Sapo's scum as well. 2/4, but the remaining two, not as positive on. I know they're in that list, but am less certain as to who they are.

Hence, the need for a re-read to see if my current separated thoughts (AKA, "individual scumminess") are accurate. (AKA, "condemning interactions".) If they are, great! Got the scumteam! If they aren't, re-evaluate and find out how they're wrong, and find out from that what's right.

[mastin2]

Also, in case nobody noticed the sig:

V/LA 7/16 until 7/22

.

I should have internet access, fortunately. Unfortunately, it'll be on the slowest dial-up you can possibly have with the internet still working. (Also unfortunately, accessing my notes will be extremely inconvenient.

And also unfortunately, I only have access from 10 PM 'til 6 or so AM. But, hey, that's still eight hours a day.)

[mastin2]

Key words like this:

1. DemonHybrid: This early post of DemonHydra

bugs

the heck out of me:

And this:

2. Pine* earworm* Ythan : Some of Earworm’s posts

probably

make more sense

coming from town then from scum.

And this:

Sadly

, I

don’t

think

the day 2 Mastin wagon tells us anything, because of that bad lying about his role gambit Mastin attempted; after that, I’d

expect

‘logical scumhunter’ people like PJ to vote Mastin

no matter what

his alignment was.

And this:

Icerint has

generally

been quiet, but I

get

pretty good

vibes from

him.

And this:

Not

really

a

fan

of her

day 1 play

. I

like

that she

defended

me against PJ on day 2

,

heh

. (Ok, it's hard for me to be unbiased about this, but that defensive posts

feels town-

ish

to me

).

Aaaaaaaand this:

Dislike

his MoI vote in post 262. [snip] His “summery” post was

pretty

terrible.

Scummy

.

(Especially when combined with the difference between "scummy" and "Scum"...)

...And so on (I've gotten tired of quoting it all),

Are all things which make me lean scum on Yosarian2. Emphasis are key words which I particularly focused on, but not necessarily the only thing which makes those sentences scummy.



I was leaning town on MBL, but, well,

pros of lynching you: get rid of an "unreadable" player, karma for you telling PJ to SCREW OFF when he politely asked you a question, you might be scum, take away the vote of a player who doesn't give a shit.

If you have anything to claim, please do it now so we have time to analyze properly before Wednesday.

The reasons didn't seem like the ones a pro-town player would give, and additionally, it reads as very minor coaching (okay, not the best word; vets rarely coach vets--more like 'friendly suggestion') to Parama. :/

[mastin2]

He scumslipped and revealed his buddies, perhaps?

[mastin2]

I get the distinct impression CTD is town.

...I mean, I realize that he's not reading the thread, but for him to be posting like THAT takes a special kind of stupid as scum.

I could point out any number of things which scream "town" to me, but he's effectively off of my list, for now.
Demon also just scumslipped (SK-slip), for the record.

Mastin is doing better, by the way, so thanks.

Right, and...WHO have I been calling scum? Oh, yeah. Your neighbor buddy you continue to defend.

[mastin2]

I did this to organize my thoughts:

Town
Iec
Mastin
Meransiel
MBL
PJ
Hydra
ToastyToast

Hmm

Pine

CTD

Yos
Shanba

Scum

DemonHybrid

saporovirus
Parama

That's pretty much my list, too. Only, I modified it. Underlined-->leaning town. Strike-->ready to call town. Italicized-->TECHNICALLY scum, but could be Honorary Town if they shoot right. (SK.)

[mastin2]

Yeah.

Individually.

Parama-Sapo-Yos2-Shanba just seems so...

right

.

As a scumteam.

I really need to stop slacking off and see about that. (Individual scumminess catches far fewer scum than condemning interactions.)

[mastin2]

CrashTestDummie's way of not reading most current pages looks very townish. Though I will ignore the content of his posts (if you ask, yes, I read them).

^Pretty much that.

[mastin2]

Still have slacked off on the re-read, but if I were to go off of late-game interactions,

Eh. I normally do like hunting lurkers, but I think Shanba is likely to be town here.

^This strengthens the scumteam I proposed.

[mastin2]

...Yeah...

I'm not sold on Shanba, yet. (Heavily, HEAVILY leaning towards it, of course.)

But Yos?

Sealing the deal with every post he makes.

[mastin2]

Yup, scum. So totally scum.

Despite that, I'd much rather lynch Parama. (Yes, I know Parama's been replaced, but he might as well have not been. That slot is still Parama to me.) Funnily enough, the deadline's on my birthday. As a birthday present to me, can we have that slot lynched?

Totally weak bussing.

Bowser's bleeding scumtells.

[mastin2]

KJ replaced Sapo, right?

[mastin2]

Funnily enough, it looked that way from the way KJ posted.

As in, KJ's stance on the game seemed like that of a scumbuddy of Parama's.

[mastin2]

Indeed. It's pretty much Parama's Slot-or-nobody today.

[mastin2]

Why when I skimmed this did I get the distinct impression it was bussing Sapo and Yos2?

Oh, right.

Since the deadline's no longer on my birthday, that means when I get back I'll be able to better confirm my reads.
I tend to write cases which look overall pretty good when I stop slacking off. (I just hate doing them. >_<)

[mastin2]

Quite frankly, I don't think I'm protection-worthy. (Not for lack of scumhunting, mind you.)

Also, I'm beginning to think the more people ask/degrade me for logic/explanation, the more often they're scum.

I've seen, oh, the occasional pro-town player do it recently (and justifiably so), but it seems like more and more, people asking, "why mastin, WHY?!?" are caught scum. Dunno why, it just seems to be what happens a lot. :/

(Referring to

Probably because you have a ridiculous conspiracy theory that has no basis for it and no logic behind it at all, and it's coloring all of your perceptions of the game.

This, of course. It's tripped all of my mental alarms for this subject.)

Now that I'm back from V/LA, I should be able to finally get that read done.

[mastin2]

As has been pointed out, Yosarian2 ignores the votes on Kondi to go for Shanba.

Everyone ignores everyone except Hydra, Kondi, Demon, Parama, and AMG for the first few pages.

Policy lynching is antitown and those who are advocating policy lynches should be policy lynched for it.

Overall, this gives the distinct "active lurking" vibe.

(Also the Hydra wagon is monumentally silly)

Shanba comes to the defense of Hydra, while ignoring other issues of the time. Seems out of place.

Vote: Sensfan for the whole "I'M GONNA PARK MY VOTE HERE" thing on page 2 of a game for an extremely minor sin (if it even is a sin - I could debate theory here, but let it be known I'm somewhat sympathetic to hydra's viewpoint anyway).

Gut's not liking this, either. Might be Tone, might be the vote, I dunno.

(5) Hydra - AlmasterGM, SensFan, Ythan, Parama, DemonHybrid

Half-way to a lynch and the words "all town wagon" do not mix well, for the record. First two there are confirmed town.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure that before this, Kondi got at least four votes, too. (Parama, Demon, Hydra, Sensfan, off the top of my head.) Depending on the exact number, that could be all-town, but still is not very likely.

Anyway, attention after the first few is almost exclusively on Parama and Demon, it feels like. (With a bit of Hydra, too.)

I see no particular reason to assume that one of DH/Thingy are scum. Like, that's classic outguessing the mod - and we dont even have anything else of the setup to speculate with yet, so it's doubly dumb.

This again seems like Active Lurking, and has a scum Tone to it. It also is a blatant Demon defense.

I'm actually somewhat in agreement with kondi that meransiel is rolefishing. Considering the mistake kondi already made, it's not beyond possible that meransiel was looking for kondi to make another mistake. There's very little town reason, too, for the question meransiel asked.

I can't quite pin down what it is in here. Tone, buddying, white knighting kondi, bandwagoning Meransiel, something like that.

AHEM-Mr. Buddy Lee: Asking people to clarify what they mean isn't the same as scum-hunting >_>

Meransiel's fishing is odd.

Again, something in here is off, but I can't pin it down. Tone, exact wording, stance, I dunno, something.

kondi2424 is probably town. The whole "Let's lynch me to confirm the whole group" thing sounds like newbie town.

It's possible the whole neighborhood is town. Neither of them seem especially scummy to me.

I need a good term, for "words which don't take a firm stance and are borderline fencesitting", which is shorter than "WWDTAFSAABF". 'probably', 'sounds', 'possible', 'especially'. You get the idea. It's also parroting, and defending Demon/Parama.

Yosarian also neglects to lay down a vote.

Meransiel wagon to date that germinated solely based on the role-fishing accusation – Shanba, DH, Kondi, Hydra, Petro

If Meran is Town then at least 1 scum jumped on this easy wagon. Role-fishing is one of the easiest accusations to make that seems like a good scum-tell but rarely is.

/Accurate. Kondi's town, Hydra's likely-town, PJ's also likely-town. Leaves Demon and Shanba.

Yosarian jumps to the defense of those players, while simultaneously attacking Meran. And note, no vote.

MoI's viewpoint on Yos2 was valid, essentially.

I'm considering sheeping PJ onto Meren; only problem is that, other then the role fishing thing (with I really want an explanation from Meren about), I don't think the rest of Meren's posting is bad.

1: fencesitting, 2: HE JUST POINTED OUT HOW SCUMMY MERAN'S ROLEFISHING WOULD BE, AND HE DOESN'T THINK IT'S VOTEWORTHY?!?

That whole post gives me the overall feeling of being strategical. Hard to explain--you know, it gives the vibe of, like, deflecting, or some other move like that. And it also has a lot of the type of wording which is, well, WWDTAFSAABF.

This is through Page Seven.

[mastin2]

(Sorry I can't do more. Need a little sleep, since I'm beginning to lose coherence.)

[mastin2]

For the record, I find Pine's lack of activity to be frustratingly null--he's done it pretty much across the site.

Quite frankly, I think he overextended himself, in a period where he had too many incidents of (unannounced) V/LAs. (Speaking from past experience, regrettably. [My last visit before I flaked in '09 was in early August.] The number of games he's in would be fine...if he didn't suffer from setbacks of Real-Life. With said setbacks, he'll give short bursts of activity to one or two games at a time. He'll get around to us...eventually. I can't say when that'll be, though.)

Anyway, bit busy celebrating my birthday in real life, and on my desktop rather than laptop. Later tonight, I'll see what I'm able to do. I want to have viewed the whole game and be sure of my scumteam proposal--so far, it's looking mighty apetizing. (Additionally, other potential suspects are making themselves look good on a reread.)

[mastin2]

Vote: Killerjester

.

I can assume Iecerint was blocked, correct?

[mastin2]

Oh, and for the record, Bad SK, BAD! (I would fully support a Demon lynch as well to get rid of that second scum kill, since apparently, Demon's trying to eliminate pro-town names instead of acting like a vig.)

[mastin2]

(Oh, and if the pattern continues, Hydra [considered town by most people, identical to PJ] will be poisoned tonight, I will be shot, and Iecerint will be blocked again. So, this is the last day we'll have multiple confirmed town alive. We better make good use of it.)

[mastin2]

...Oh, wait. Forgot Kondi/Toasty. Yay, that means we'll have two confirmed town on Day four, instead of one! (So, either Toasty or myself shot; otherwise the same.)

1. DemonHybrid <--SK.
2. Pine** earworm* Ythan <--I'm calling Pine town. (Mid town lean.)
5. killerjester saporovirus <--Scum.
8. CrashTextDummie Hrezs* <--Strong town-lean.
11. MrBuddyLee*** <--Mid town lean.
13. Yosarian2 <--Scum.
14. Shanba*** <--Scum.
16. Hydra (Thor655 + Magister Ludi)** <--Obv-town.

Which looks like

TOWN:
Hydra
LIKELY TOWN: CTD
MBL
Pine

SK:
Demon

SCUM:
KJ/Sapo
Yos2
Shanba


If anyone disagrees with these reads, they better have a dang-good explanation as to why, because it fits perfectly.

[mastin2]

So, THEORETICAL LYNCH POOL:

1. DemonHybrid
2. Pine** earworm* Ythan
5. killerjester saporovirus
8. CrashTextDummie Hrezs*
11. MrBuddyLee***
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba***

ACTUAL LYNCH POOL:

1. DemonHybrid
5. killerjester saporovirus
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba***

If anyone objects (well, other than those in the ALP--their opinions don't count ), speak now or forever hold your peace.

[mastin2]

Mod temptation.

It's too high to resist.

Combined with general attitude.

Demon's attitude matches perfectly with that of a SK.

[mastin2]

There are only so many scum in the game.

Pine's slot hasn't contributed much in the whole game, but does any of it look like it's condemning?

That is, does any of it look like it makes sense as a scumbuddy with Parama/Bowser plus two others?

How about vice-versa? Has Parama/Bowser done anything condemning in relationship to that slot? How about your other two scum-reads?


...Yeah, not for me. Individually, sure, Pine looks quite bad. But as a scumteam, Pine doesn't fit.

Yosarian2, Shanba, and especially KJ DO fit, though.

[mastin2]

KJ wagon, yay!
(I'd vote vote Shanba/Yos2 if there's more support, but I prefer KJ.)

[mastin2]

I'm already voting scum; why should I vote for other-scum?

[mastin2]

Admittedly, Shanba and Yosarian are strongly tied together, and tied to Bowser/Parama.

But KJ I feel is a stronger tie.

[mastin2]

Not really, no. Not from a town mind-set, anyway.

[mastin2]

@MBL:

Why no vote on either KJ or Shanba when neither is even close to being lynched?

[mastin2]

1. DemonHybrid
2. Pine** earworm* Ythan
3. mastin2 Snow White**
4. Iecerint
5. killerjester saporovirus
8. CrashTextDummie Hrezs*
11. MrBuddyLee***
13. Yosarian2
14. Shanba***
16. Hydra (Thor655 + Magister Ludi)**
18. ToastyToast kondi2424**

Tell me, who in this list is a newb?

Pine, our absent player?
KJ, one of our preferred lynches?
ToastyToast, the neighbor-considered-confirmed-town?

...Yeah. More likely than not, your thought about newb-SK is wrong. The list in this game is pretty much pure vets. (Heck, Pine's a dang-good player [especially as scum] when he actually plays the game, so I don't really consider him a newb, either.)

You'll note Yos2 is not anyone's top choice for the lynch today. He needs to die, well before lylo, but he's not a lynch candidate. Shanba/KJ are the popular two. (And I'd be willing to lynch DH as an SK, too, but, well, I'm not sure I can convince you.)

Considering we have a vig and the mafia, it's not unreasonable to assume the SK is NK-immune. It's pretty standard, in fact. It also fits with the flavor. Both the vig and scum kills are shooting. That means something like "Bulletproof" would protect the SK from both kills.

That also invalidates the "not on Iece's list" part.

So, yeah. It's valuable insight on your part, Thor, but I happen to think you've come to the wrong conclusions on this matter. I still stick by DH as the SK. I might build a case later if there's interest, but really, I'm not sure there would be.

[mastin2]

Out of curiousity, which game is the 50-page game?

[mastin2]

^What he said.
Plus, look at the nature of those kills, and the players behind them. PBuG *might* have come from a pro-town player working by process of elimination (like I did), but PJ was widely considered obv-town by pretty much everyone and therefore was a horrendously bad 'vig' kill.

[mastin2]

Votecount?

[mastin2]

Unvote, vote: Shanba

.

More support, apparently. (Note that if there's another person who votes KJ and/or anyone on the Shanba wagon unvotes, I'm moving it back.)

[mastin2]

For the record--if we have protective roles, I'd rather have Iece protected than myself. I'm confirmed town, sure. But other than that, I'm powerless. Iece might not be confirmed town, but he's as close as we can get to confirmed town without him actually being confirmed town. And unlike me, he ISN'T powerless.

Would much rather lynch Killerjester than Shanba. Other head sees Shanba but I'm not so sold on it. The strongest win it has is that it basically has 3 confirmed not mafia on it, which is kewl, but at the same time I feel the case isn't really existent in my own head, it just sort of seems to be there because he lurks and defended Parama. Killerjester feels more win to me, I think that's the much better lynch.

More or less, these are my feelings as well. KJ is my primary choice. Shanba's a mere secondary choice. I'm only here 'cause it has more support. Given a single Shanba unvote and/or a single extra KJ vote, I'm switching back over.

[mastin2]

Unvote, vote: KJ.

[mastin2]

KJ has four,
Shanba has three.

(1) David Xanatos - Shanba
(1) CrashTextDummie - Yosarian2
Not Voting: David Xanatos, MrBuddyLee

These four names need to choose one of the wagons above. We're not lynching outside of KJ/Shanba today.

[mastin2]

I prefer vice-versa, honestly.

[mastin2]

Unvote, Vote: Shanba

.
A vig of Yos2 would be preferable.

[mastin2]

Unvote, VOTE: Killerjester.

CTD was a town-read, who had no reason to counter-claim as scum when his faction would already be behind.

KJ is a scum-read, who had every reason to claim doctor to try and save himself.
The choice is quite obvious.

[mastin2]

Shanba only has two suspects. KJ, and "DX with a small chance of Yosarian". Three scum in a game of this size? Really?
"there's a chance both yos and DX are scum".

I mean. REALLY?!?

...Yeah. Shanba's scum. Shanba vigged tonight, lynch tomorrow will be GG.

[mastin2]

Oh, wait, forgot the SK. Still, won't take long for the entire scumteam to die.

[mastin2]

Killerjester is not a doctor. This is a counterclaim.

He strongly hinted at it when he said "KJ is full of BS", but this seems explicit enough. What more do you want?

(Well, protection targets would be nice, but other than that... )

[mastin2]

First off--
Whoah. The mafia QT has 640 messages in it. I think that's a record. :P (It's so many that the "View All Messages" feature has been disabled! o_O)

Second off--happy B-Day, Iece.

Third off--for obvious reasons, if it hasn't been done already, I'm nomming CTD for Best Performance In A Losing Cause. Haven't read the Mafia QT, yet, but still, his in-thread play was dang-impressive.


Starting my read. It'll take forever to click through. :P

PS: note to Mastin for when he reads this in post-game: it takes a special kind of

smart

to be posting like that as scum. Fear the oldies. :p

My memory's shaky--remind me what this was in reference to? (And, hey, I'm not exactly young myself, you know. :P October 8th will be my third scumday. Then again, when compared to CTD, MBL, and Yosarian2, everyone's young. :P)

PJ
Shanba
Yos2
Killerjester/saporovirus
Pine/earworm

Who's the SK and who's the power role?

Shanba is very unlikely to be the former (would have required MoI targetting either him or MBL last night). I very seriously doubt it's Yos2, and I'm not really feeling PJ either (although MBL, I think, mentioned getting SK-vibes from him a while back in the QT - mind going back and elaborating?). I find it hard to determine whether Pine's complete lack of contribution is scummy or just lazy. Saporovirus may actually be my best guess for the SK: He's giving me somewhat similar vibes as Jack in LML's "The New C9" way back when, who I correctly read as SK.

As for the Power Role, I don't really have a clue. I don't usually hunt for them

Knows there's an SK and a PR among five names. Correctly deduces it is not 3/5, and by process of elimination figures out the SK and (indirectly) the power role. Wow.

His killerjester-defense would fit with cop-yos. I remember a game in which he got a guilty on StD on N0 and sat on it until D2. On D1 he a)attacked StD unrelentingly, b)defended the guy StD was attacking, c)only settled on another lynch because this other player made sense to him as an StD-partner. I have a feeling this game may still get hairy for us.

Different player, but same result--CTD predicted the future! :P

PS: Can I call myself honorary role-cop of this scum team? According to several townies, it's impossible to predict KJ-SK or power role-DX without that particular power. :p

A thousand times, yes. :P We all thought you were a rolecop until we were told you were not. :P

every town player who believe yos was scum died.

mastin2 was shot (by us)
shanba died
PJ died
MoI died

hot damn

You have only yourselves to blame for that... :P

Having read the QT--Town MVP is obviously Yosarian2. The reasons need not be mentioned. :P

Scum MVP isn't AS obvious, since MBL played a solid game (more so in the Mafia QT than I would've thought), fighting as hard as he could and concocting some brilliant scum plans, But CTD I still feel did better overall, especially in the end. (Kinda hard to describe.)

In general, the scum team played really, really well this game, and it really felt like an uphill struggle every step of the way.

On the other hand, this was an awesome town.

...Mostly right, except for that part about an awesome town*... *points to self* :P

(*The statement "this was an awesome town" after "the scumteam played really well" implies "all the town was awesome", when we clearly had...a weak link or two. :P It'd be accurate to say MOST of the town was awesome, though. ;) )

This game, with DH, Iece, Toasty, ect, is a perfect example of why one of most important pro-town virtues is being willing to change your mind.

Believe it or not, I've actually adapted this philosophy. (You taught me this back in...that one game we shalln't speak of...in 2009.) I just got killed before I could implement it. :P (Sapo's SK flip made it obvious Demon was town, for instance, and had I continued to live, my thoughts would have been "You know, I tend to live longest when I am most wrong..." :P)

Mastin not tripping up a gambit and outing the innocent child on day 2),

Hmph. Blasted little clause in the normal rules. :P When I looked at it, I took it as a granted that it essentially meant "no cults". I didn't even THINK about Psychiatrists being alignment-altering roles when I thought of that claim. :P

But I knew that if my claim backfired, I had a nice way to get out instantly and that it'd have hopefully generated reads via the bandwagon on me. (Well, would have, if I hadn't chosen a claim *that* bad... >_<) I was simply planning on using it much later. :P

SK is generally going to shoot confirmed townies, though. The basic formula for winning as a SK is to shoot the confirmed townies at night and try to lynch the scum during the day; SK can't lynch confirmed townies during the day, and absolutely has to get rid of them all ASAP in order to have a chance of winning.

Maybe years ago, but in current site meta, SK's try their hardest to either 1: shoot like a vig (not this game, for obvious reasons), or (if a vig is present) 2: shoot for the "middle"--leave the confirmed innocents to the scum, leave the scummy players to the town, and lynch the middle.

There's a reason I tend not to consider SKs to be true scum. If they shot confirmed town, they would be, but they almost never do. (Like I said, I love the idea of using an SK like a vig, though I'm apparently in the minority that way... :/)