Mafia 46: No Vanilla Townie - Game over!

[olio]

Yay and Tat! Bandwagon!

vote: help I'm a bug

Hey Fritz, are you aware of Cracker?

[olio]

Casting a 3rd vote this early without explanation = A bad idea

Lloyd, ask yourself why do you usually join bandwagons. After that, ask yourself how do you usually get information on early day 1. After those questions you'll notice your "without explanation" -excuse is crap and hopefully in the next game you won't do the same mistake.

unvote
vote: Lloyd

Following Fritzler = A bad idea

Why?

[olio]

If your intention of an early 3rd vote is to get information from help im a bug, he just posted.

You're thinking too simple. My intention is to get reactions like yours and if I'm voted with crappy excuses, it means voter is usually trying too hard to find something to justify their vote. That means that they are afraid to throw votes without "good" reasons.

Based on my impression from reading games that Fritzler has been in:

I like to keep open mind. If you're deducting Fritz's playing style from earlier games you've read, you're clouding your mind for this game. If you can't change to the objective point of view in this game now and then, you either don't feel need to do that or you're impairing yourself when it comes to catch scum.

By the way...How come you didn't question the following?

See following fritz always = a good idea

What is there to question? I like good jokes. Your premise was just the other crappy excuse for you to vote me.

[olio]

Happy with my vote at the moment.

[olio]

FOS: TSAGod

Single post in the whole game where he votes pro-town player.

Twomz, you

expected

either Fritzler or Logicticus to be mafia but in your opinion something is wrong?!? That past tense is really wierd in your sentence when you're now voting for Logicticus anyway.

vote: Twomz

[olio]

I was suspicious of Airotcia before, but her last post is as scummy as it can be - lots of talk about what "we" know and suggestions what "we" should do and yet she doesn't do anything herself. Afraid to put her money where her mouth is = scum.

unvote: Twomz
vote: Airotcia
FOS: Twomz

[olio]

I'm not sure I like the quick run-up on Airotcia or the stubborn demands for a claim.

That original post only shows she wasn't paying attention or didn't have the time.

Poor play deserves to lose. Still happy with my vote.

[olio]

Sorry, I don't quite follow. Can you elaborate?

[olio]

Poor play deserves to lose

It does? I dont want to lose because of a poor player on my side. You are? Interesting.

I'm sorry, you still don't make any sense to me.

Make no mistake, poor play isn't the same thing as poor player. If you really think that Airotcia's slip was nothing, what in the world you're wishing people to say or do before you find them worth a vote? If after every mistake like hers you let people off the hook with "I was busy and studying" -explanation, you might as well stop playing.

Passdog, where have I said I want to lynch townie over a mafioso?

Bertrand, I've never said that Airotcia is a poor player. You "advice" about ignoring her and let mafia deal with her is really odd too. It makes me think you know for sure Airotcia is townie.

Airotcia, are you saying this is the only game you don't care so much about?

[olio]

I really think that players on this game likes bandwagons too much

Well, if you have any other suggestions to get information, feel free to share

I share your belief that there are things more important in life than games, but also ask responsobility from you if you're joining a mafia game. If you don't have time, play in one or two games.

[olio]

unvote
vote: Twomz

Back to my original love.

[olio]

unvote, vote olio
first his "poor play deserves to lose" stuff,

Do you think poor play deserves to win?

now he's blatantly bandwagon hopping. First he hopped on the Airoticia bandwagon, now he jumped right here on Twomz.

Please pay attention: I was first to vote Twomz today. Maybe I should've said "I still find Twomz scummy, but Airotcia is scummier in my opinion now" when I changed my vote. I thought the FOS I left on Twomz would be enough to tell that but I guess I was wrong.

I'm happy with either of them being lynched today. Or Bertrand, as he is trying way too hard to get people lynched.

[olio]

Poor play deserves to lose. Poor play should and will lose. That's what makes it poor play. We don't need to help it by killing bad townies.

I just can't be yet so sure that Airotcia is townie.

[olio]

unvote
vote: help im a bug

[olio]

Please elaborate. I get the feeling you're trying to get vig to kill me.

[olio]

Erm... you put the lynching vote on Bug the post after i said he was one from lynch. You didn't allow any discussion... you gave no reason for doing it... you just killed him. I wouldn't mind if a vig killed you... you will probably be under great suspicion tomorrow (i know you are right now) and will probably be lynched anyway.

That better?

Yah, shows me that you're scum. If you'd really been interested getting more discussion out, you would've unvoted him instead of giving your "he is one vote being lynched". You didn't even say: "wait! Let's not lynch him just yet", not until I gave the lynch vote. Oh, and nicely done thinking for the whole town. That better?

[olio]

Yes there was a reason for me to cast the final vote on him:
I didn't believe his claim. Did you?

Your logic is crap.

So you just announce the situation? If you saw no reason to unvote him, what kind of discussion you were expecting? Your post about vote situation is also oh-so-casually put and to me it actually seems that you're urging somebody to put that final vote in. Now why in the world, in the one-vote-away-from-the-lynch you put out wishy-washy post like that?

[olio]

Olio: He has joined some bandwagons and he put the last vote on HIAB's lynch, even when he knew that his vote was the last one. He didn't give an explanation and

he even didn't say before that he was suspecting of HIAB

. In fact, he has always suspected about me; and when the situation comes to a state of lynch he quickly changes his vote without words... I really don't understand this change of mood

That underlined part there is crap logic from your part. Think about it.

If I had to vote, I would choose between TSAGod and Olio

And yet, once again, you don't do anything. Just few winks to get your fellow players vote. Well, it works for me.

vote: Airotcia

My second candidate is Twomz for reasons I've mentioned before plus his "it's all olio's fault" trick. Thanks for not falling in that, vig. Twomz also has failed to answer my last questions I presented to him.

In Passdog/TSAGod situation I believe latter is right.

So not voting for the sk is scummy now?

If you believed inhimb's claim, that's scummy. If you say that inhimb didn't make a punishable mistake, that's scummy. Poor play deserves to lose.

[olio]

I still dont see how not voting for an sk is scummy. Was passdog the only one not voting for HIAB? Poorplaydeservestolose=crap. I dont want to lose because of poor players.

At the moment I don't think it's scummy if you didn't vote for sk. At the moment I don't think it's scummy if you did vote for sk. You seem to believe in latter.

Inhimb played poorly and thus lost. Are you on the SK's side?

Olio is still "angry" with me and he hasn't given a clear explanation for his vote on HIAB.

Don't lie.

Yes there was a reason for me to cast the final vote on him:
I didn't believe his claim.

And I haven't voted for TSAGod yesterday because I didn't know how many votes he had in that moment and I didn't want to start a new bandwagon on him.

So I guess you just post and don't read other people posts? Like the one right before your post by mikehart, titled "Day 3 Official Vote Count"? And why you were afraid to start new bandwagon on TSAGod? Because you know he is innocent?

confirm vote: Airotcia

[olio]

At the moment I don't think it's scummy if you didn't vote for sk. At the moment I don't think it's scummy if you did vote for sk. You seem to believe in latter.

Wrong. I do not believe in the latter.

Ok, I stand corrected.

Yes, I see that. but saying "poor play deserves to lose" as an argument to lynch a possible townie is not correct.

You're thinking short-term and only for this game. I don't say that's wrong, but if people get punished for their mistakes, they'll learn and in the long run it'll be good for the whole game of mafia as everyone gets better. The mistake inhimb did is something I really don't want to see in games - I mean it might be fun at that moment but later it leaves you kinda empty. "That was it? Blah."

I ask for paying attention and focusing to the game. Is that too much to ask?

That said, not paying attention is one of the scum tells in my opinion. When you are scum, you might be looking forward for expressing yourself during the night and in the process you might neglect the day.

[olio]

I find olio, tsagod and shamrock the scummiest. GreenLiquid is a close 4th.

Noted.

[olio]

I dont want them to have that kind of learning experience when im playing. I just want to win. You concern of players learning is unsetling. its like you

want

them to lose...

Well, then our opinions differ in that learning thingie. I guess I can answer your exaggeration with: Your concern of players learning is unsettling. It's like you

want

them to play lousy...

When you are scum, you might be looking forward for expressing yourself during the night and in the process you might neglect the day.

Hm, I think townies tend to do that too.

In my opinion scum are more prone to do that than townies. Townies need information and scum already have plenty of that. The major source of information for townies is discussion.

[olio]

DGb, why are you helping scum?

[olio]

I believe Airotcia more than Bertrand. Like Passdog says, she wasn't in any imminent danger when making her counter-claim - save my vote . Also her earlier lurking behaviour is common for docs. Bertrand's actions seem to me like he just screwed it up and started trying to fish out a doc-claim (wtf, doc is a power-role?!?!? o rly?!?!?!?).

Then again lynching me is better than lynching a power role, but still.

If you're insane cop or have some similar unsure twist in your townie role, you won't know that for sure from your role pm. Doc can be for example incompetent one: killing every other night, protecting every other night. If you know it for sure from beginning, why have the role at all? I don't believe it's the case here though when looking at their night choices.

unvote
vote: bertrand

[olio]

And did you think about situation where both scum groups target the same person thus directing two kills against one protection?

[olio]

Why olio defends this, is puzzling indeed.

What are you trying to imply? I was merely giving different point of view to VitaminR.

Bertrand, why are you interested about how scum groups work in endgame?

[olio]

Waiting for VitaminR as well.

[olio]

Are you saying that every other night you win with town and every other night you don't? Or what are you trying to say?

[olio]

I think Twomz is scum and Passdog is playing lousy.

vote: Twomz

Oh yes, Passdog, please pay attention next time.

I can confirm that Olio is pro-town, any nightkilling of him would be a mistake.

[olio]

Olio: Please try not to insinuate that others are playing lousy when you've made it so easy for others to believe you are scum.

Nice over-generalization. Elaborate "made it so easy" and "others".

PS: Unless we have a second GF then the only player remaining that might be mafia is Olio as he is the only one to have not been confirmed yet

by a cop

.

I voted you for the sole reason that (untill after my post) you were the only player unconfirmed

by the group

.

These don't fit together. Explain.

If olio is not scum, then we know it is either Twomz or TSAGod. Everyone but those two, Airotcia and olio were recruited into the mason group.

Do you know for sure that person recruited to logicticus' mason group will win with town thereafter?

Back when we were discussing the HIAB lynch there were various people who opposed my proposal that scum were likely to be on the HIAB lynch wagon. For everyones recollection these are the people who were on that lynch:

BabyJesus (scum), Monty (scum), bertrand (scum), logic (town), olio (town - maybe) Shamrock? (town), Twomz (?), TSAGod (?) (just from memory - correct me if I'm wrong)

(as an aside my theory was pretty accurate don't you think?

very lousy play

/sarcsam)

You gotta stay focused whole game don't you think. By the way, why didn't you check the alignments of deceased people from the front page when making that list but make others do it?

In addition I don't believe any of the confirmed scum voted for TSAGod during that period. Some did vote for Twomz. A bit WIFOM iknow but meh.

I think this is a very good point and I'll check the votes today.

And I also noticed that (despite supposedly being a doc) he only fosed bertrand until it was obvious he was going to be lynched anyway.

This is a very good point too.

anyway everyone can probably guess how Im going to vote.

I realize that was a long post, but because of this...

I was leaning toward TSAGod, till the doc claim.

... I actually thought you'd vote for Twomz.

[olio]

logicticus would die if he tried to recruit a non-townie.

Oops. Missed that one. Can you recruits please say who you are? Do you know if logicticus would die if the non-townie person would reject the offer? Was it even possible to reject logicticus offer?

Airotcia is the only player who is not confirmed by a cop investigation, or by being a Mason. Am I right?

No, but info was buried in Passdog's post making it bit hard to see.

Airotcia was essential in bertrands lynch. So at this stage I rule her out; especially as I got a guilty result on her last night (remember I'm insane).

[olio]

olio: I don't wish to argue with you. It will only be distracting for the other players. I retract those comments you find issue with.

Fair enough in this situation, and thanks for the mason group explanation. By the way, who did you investigate night before last night?

I checked how everyone had voted.

None of the dead scum did vote for TSAGod. Furthermore, TSAGod was second to last to put vote on Bertrand, BabyJesus putting in the last vote, and TSAGod was the last one to vote BabyJesus.

He also started to give not-so-subtle hints about his doctorality

after

Bertrand started to get more and more votes and it started to look like he'll go down.

From dead scum Bertrand did vote for Twomz. Twomz did vote Bertrand on two occasions on D3 and put his vote on scumwagon everytime before TSAGod.

At the moment Twomz still seems to be bit more scummy to me because of his vote on me.

Here's some info about traitor:
http://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Traitor

[olio]

I guess you just saw somebody voting for me and added your vote in that pile as fast as possible, not having to check first message of this page. Now you did the same with TSAGod hoping that he'll get lynched before discussion takes place. Well, your situation is desperate, I give you that.

Guys, if you look at Goofball's results, isn't it obvious that TSAGod is doc like Airotcia? I haven't heard of mafia doc's but maybe that's possible.

Also Twomz's attempt to start discussion about something meaningless thing like BabyJesus' boardgame speaks volumes for his scumminess.

[olio]

Here is my plan:
Lynch TSAGod today.
Twomz vigs a player tonight (olio probably - in case he is a traitor)
Airotcia protects twomz to ensure his kill goes through.

In my opinion Twomz is the remaining scum and your plan just kills two townies for nothing when we can achieve win just by lynching Twomz. Passdog, do you think TSAGod isn't doc and/or I'm traitor? Why?

Twomz, how does mafia doc work in your opinion? And what did you mean with this:

Now, i'm basically a vanilla

[olio]

vote: Twomz

The only way my plan doesn't work is there is more than one scum left.

Are you saying you didn't think about this earlier?

[olio]

Thanks for the game! I had great time

I think that two mason groups made it bit easier to town. Maybe a traitor would've make it more even?