Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

[Zdenek]

Here and getting caught up.

[Zdenek]

The theory I am going to work under for the time being is a single scum team with a vig or SK. The scum team took out hiplop because after Toon Fighter's lynch between the competing wagons, the single scum team would have viewed Hiplop as near confirmed town. The SK/Vig took out lewacher.

Empking:

Empking is scum because his Tomie vote could have been sucking up to Mastin. His complaint about not wanting people to waste their votes was premature, so it was just an attempt to appear pro-town while not doing anything. He proclaims Pappums Rat to be town for no reason at all. LOL at this:

ISO 483:

hiplop looks town and hHikari should get back on Bowser.

ISO 484:

I'm willing to allow Hikari to get what he wants.

Unvote

Vote: Hiplop

He votes Toon Fighter when it looks like Bowser or Hiplop were more likely to be lynched and without giving a reason, and never pushed the lynch.

Maxous:

He's scum.

Are you making this up?

Oh yeah Mastin, something I was wondering last time, even though it did'nt come into effect.
With the VCA reads does "town" mean 'town' or 'not maifa'.
How does potential third parties figure into it?

Early game time wasting.

As for Toon - 109: The only person I remember bringing any kind of accusation against Mastin was Hiplop.
It does'nt really matter if he 'deserves' it or not this early on. Some people just like to build a wagon early.

This is forced interaction with TF. Here is Toon Fighter's 109:

I just find it strange making a 5-person bandwagon right at the beginning of the game on a player that doesn't seem to have done that much to deserve it. My vote was the first, and a RV, and, since I find no better place to put it, it stays there. But the other player's votes weren't like mine.

What...?
Are you implying we should be basing the first few lynches based on mastin's bandwagon or something?
…
I don't see it. Why is he scummy looking?

Subte defense of Toon Figher, twice.

Post 160, ISO 6, is just him asking questions and not giving his own opinions on things, this goes on for awhile too: ISO 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11,

In 12 he finally gave an opinion, and what is it:

Heh, vezokpiraka both chainsaw defended Hiplop and gave himself an out to suspect Hiplop later in the same post.
I think I know who is flipping red if Hiplop does.

It's an attack on what I suspect are two easy lynches and using a boiler-plate wiki-tell: the chainsaw defense.

Here he is suspicious of GreyICE:

I got a possible solution, tracker - target GreyICE tonight while he stabs things

But in his next post

zMuffiman - whenever you want to stop buddying GreyICE is fine by me.

So he's suspicious of GreyICE, but then attacks zMuffin for buddying him, which as far as I have ever seen it, is scum buddying with a townie, so he's just throwing accusations around and probably trying to drive apart two townies.

Then there is this distancing move:

Next biggest wagon is Toon fighter - I don't think he is scum and a lot of the wagon consists of "just look how scum he is"
Also, as of 871 I would be happy lynching 5 out of the 6 players on the wagon. I don't trust it.

You know,
VOTE: Empking

Page 36 with a wagon that he's pushed all day, the Hiplop one, at L-2, and he's really convinced by Hiplop's reaction to the "hammer" that he's town, I don't buy it, and then he moves his vote to an impossible lynch for D1 in Empking. It makes no sense from a town perspective.

And then he asks

Muffinman - you want to explain why everybody voting Hiplop are derps? Or why you are so confident in your town read of him?

Hiraki:

is scum. He said nothing about Toon Fighter all day, despite being very active, so he's scum.

edmund.angles:

I understand why people think he's scum, but I don't really think that his vote on Toon Fighter was bussing.

I'm going to start here

Vote: Maxous

GreyICE, why is Hiraki comfirmed town?

[Zdenek]

I suspected Grey of being third party.
=> mafia could still buddy him.

yet you'd expressed no suspicion of zMuff up until that time.

As for the empking vote I did'nt agree with the top 3 wagons and there was about 3 days. I did'nt see it as impossible.

So you were pushing for a lynch to overtake the top three wagons with this?

Next biggest wagon is Toon fighter - I don't think he is scum and a lot of the wagon consists of "just look how scum he is"
Also, as of 871 I would be happy lynching 5 out of the 6 players on the wagon. I don't trust it.

You know,
VOTE: Empking

I don't buy it.

Empking - It was ISO's 13 and 14. Why did you change your mind about Hiplop?

[Zdenek]

Mod: my vote's on Maxous

Fixed

I agree with GreyICE's response to zMuffin's objections to Maxous lynch.

[Zdenek]

(Or the SK wanted to pull off another hiplop-style kill, IE, something which looks like it could be pro-town on an initial viewing but when you look at it again becomes quite [painfully so, in fact] obvious that it was not a pro-town kill.)

This reeks of having knowledge that there are two scum teams or that the scum kill failed last night.

[Zdenek]

Nice misrep quoting half the speculation.

The rest of the speculation doesn't change the meaning of the sentence:

I adapt to every game I play. In this one, I need to be unpredictable. Which means that if I DO die, that the scum actually ARE afraid of me. (Or just that dang annoyed. I swear, a good 75% of the times scum night-kill me, it's not for some typical reason, like "Mastin is obv-town", "mastin's too dang good", or something like that. It's "Mastin is getting on my nerves". )

(Or the SK wanted to pull off another hiplop-style kill, IE, something which looks like it could be pro-town on an initial viewing but when you look at it again becomes quite [painfully so, in fact] obvious that it was not a pro-town kill.)

If I die . . . the SK wanted to pull off another hiplop style kill . . . - mastin is suggesting the SK killed hiplop.

Hiplop thought he was hammered. I really did'nt see him as a player sneaky enough to fake a town reaction after pretending he thought he was hammered when knowing he was'nt.
So there was absolute zero way I was voting hiplop after that.

You are lying scum. If you weren't, you'd be explaining what it is about it that was so townie, but you're not, so you're scum.

[Zdenek]

Empking, why is Maxous on your no lynch list for today?

[Zdenek]

He wasn't on either wagon.

Since there's the scum tactic of avoiding major wagons, I don't care about this.

Cases on edmund and Maxous from those who believe that either one, or both, are scum. And it better not be from mastin.

My ISO 1, GreyICE's early posts from day two.

[Zdenek]

Huh? What about Day 1 gave you the idea I would rather avoid 'major wagons'?

The fact that you weren't on either of them at the end of the day - which is exactly the reason that empking doesn't want to lynch you. Just die.

Mod: I'm moving and I'll be V/LA until Tuesday. If things go well, I'll be back sooner.

[Zdenek]

Your argument makes no sense (maxous was on the hiplop wagon right up until hiplop's claim and the derphammer incident).

You are mixing two separate arguments together.

Lewarcher saying maxous is town makes maxous seem scummy.

What is this nonsense.

Xanatos' Maxous vote looks like shit, but his response to Mastin2 looks townie.

Let's start here today,

Vote chkflip

[Zdenek]

KILL GI, SCUM. HE'S THE BEST KILL.

In game communication.

If zMuff flips scum we can assume his partner is a fairly new player.

Unvote
Vote zMuff

[Zdenek]

Under just a little pressure zMuff has gone from being fairly protown to being purely reactive.

[Zdenek]

I'm having a pretty hard time of seeing Mastin as town in this game.

[Zdenek]

Are you seeing edmund as town?

Yes. I don't think he was bussing TF.

[Zdenek]

I've been profoundly busy this week starting a new job. I'll put time into this game before Tuesday.

[Zdenek]

Scum points upon a reread (admittedly I got tired near the end, but I doubt that will matter much):

Bowser +S
Warriormode +S
zMuffinMan +S
Pappums Rat +S
Pappums Rat +S
zMuffinMan +S
Tomie Uzmaki +S
Uprising +S
zMuffinMan +S
zMuffinMan +S
zMuffinMan +S
Torquez +S
Mastin +S
Uprising +S
zMuffinMan +S
zMuffinMan +S
malpascp +S
Pine +S
Pine +S
zMuffinMan +S
Pappums Rat +S
Uprising +S
Pine +S
Pappums rat +S
zMuffinMan +S
GreyICE +S
chkflip +S - move on Edmund, Hiplop and Tomie when there was a three way tie for votes
zMuffinMan +S
malpascp +S
Pine +S
malpascp +S
malpascp +S
chkflip +S
edmund.angles +S
edmund.angles +S - see #677 - Bowser Wagon (if there's scum on it, it's probably him)
chkflip +S
Mastin +S
GreyICE +S
zMuffinMan +S
David Xanatos +S


Maxous ( 10 ) - GreyICE, Zdenek, warriormode, malpascp, HezLucky, CSL, Empking, sorgster, David Xanatos, GreyICE

malpascp +S
HezLucky +S
David Xanatos +S

Scummation:

2. edmund.angles 2
5. Bowser CSL 1
6. vezokpiraka
7. GreyICE 2
8. Uprising chkflip 6
9. Torqez Hezlucky 2
11. malpascp 5
12. mastin2 2
13. Pine David Xanatos 6
14. pappums rat Amrun 4
15. warriormode 1
16. Tomie Uzumaki sorgster 1
20. zMuffinMan 11

Adjusted for number of posts (very approximate because I refuse to use a calculator for all of them:

Edmund 0.05
CSL 0.03
vezok 0
GreyICE .01
chkflip 0.1
Hezlucky .1
malpascp .14
mastin 0.01
David X 0.1
Amrun .1
warriormode 0.03
sorgster .02
zMuffinMan.1

Eliminate the following from consideration today at least:

Vezok
Sorgster
WarriorMode
Amrun
CSL
Edmund
GreyICE
Hezlucky
Despite the fact that I am badly bothered by him, Mastin too

and we get:

chkflip
malpascp
David X
zMuffinMan

I want to lynch from those four today.

[Zdenek]

I will post further reasoning for my reads, but for now, sorgster is practically confirmed town because of Neruz telling Empking to be nice to him.

[Zdenek]

I could say more about chkflip and uprising, but it's easy to see if you read them in ISO, but I'd just like to point one thing out. From chkflip's ISO 4:

Toon is Tomie's buss to look town.

Not one word about Toon prior to posting this; in particular not a word about why he is scummy. It basically confirms chkflip as scum.

[Zdenek]

When it comes to malpascp, it's not too glaring. There's things like this and this.

You say I am scum because I have town attitudes. Non-sense much?

Malp has played long enough to know that pretending to be pro-town is scummy, especially when it is combined with not scum-hunting.

That depends on tonight's outcome. Maybe GI dies tonight, and you don't have to worry anymore. Jeez.

NK spec.

He never mentioned Toon Fighter or Lewacher. The main issue here is that he was pushing Hiplop as a lynch pretty hard, but never once gave his thoughts on Toon Fighter.

[Zdenek]

Pine /David X

Results of first read-through: I agree with Mastin about Tomie. Mastin is Town. I lol'd at his Pine category. You really can't read me for shit, can you Mastin? I bet it bugs you.

Beginning second read-through, will keep an eye on details this time (as opposed to the broad strokes of the game thus far.)

EBWOP:

Vote: Tomie

So Pine decides early that Mastin is town and votes with Tomie with him. All Mastin had said about Tomie up to this point is that he couldn't see anything coming from Tomie that looks like it's coming from a player with a pro-town mindset, which is all well and good, but it is so non-specific that to sheep him on the read is a bit strange. What's scummy is that Pine later seemed to think that he had a pretty reasonable case against GreyICE, but he didn't vote:

WHOA. I just ISO'd GreyICE, to see if there was a question or challenge I missed, and GI has almost NOTHING but fluff. Check it yourself. GI rises to #2 after Tomie, especially as I think that vote above is a joke, and we're well past RVS.

This is not the nose-to-the-grindstone hardworking Town-GI that nailed my ass in 1156, nor the frantic GI we hard to work hard to deceive in TWBB. More I think on this the bigger the scumread.

GreyICE's sig doesn't make him scum. His fluffy behavior, so contrary to how I've seen him as Town in the past, is what makes him scum.

______________________________________________

I just ISO'd you to rub all the times you used "gut" as a reason for a vote in your face, Hiraki, and found none. Hmm. I must be confusing my games up again. My antagonism (in this matter, as I have no reason to clear you as Town) is withdrawn with apologies.

Thanks for the meta tidbit on you, though.

Here we have an unnecessary, sucking up apology coming from Pine. The "antagonism" he is apologizing for should be able to be found in the following two quotes:

Do you not see what's scummy with hiplop?

I see some things, but why don't you tell us? You can pretend I'm a moron in need of patient explanation, if it helps.

Just curious if you're capable of doing so without resorting to the word "gut".

Please respond.

Do you not see what's scummy with hiplop?

I see some things, but why don't you tell us? You can pretend I'm a moron in need of patient explanation, if it helps.

Just curious if you're capable of doing so without resorting to the word "gut".

do you see enough antagonism to warrant that apology? 'cause I don't.

HAHAHAHAHA.

FAIL gambit is FAIL.

unvote
vote mastin

There is no way someone sued a lie detector in a normal. NO WAY.
I had THEME games with a lie detector in them and the reviewer told me that lie detector is bastard and I should get it out.

Hoopla and Haylen reviewed the setup. There is no way both of them let a lie detector in the game. No way at all.

Mastin either tried a fail town gambit or is scum fake claiming to save a buddy or whatever WIFOM he thinks he can make.

I knew Mastin's claim as a Mastingambit the moment I laid eyes on it. I've played with him enough to recognize it. But so did Vezok...and instead of recognizing it as a sign of probTown Mastin, like ToonFighter did, Vezok tried to ride it to a lynch.

I notice he's also in the middle of the pack on the current largest wagon.

Not going to throw down my vote until I actually finish reading the thread, but that stood out in a huge way to me, and I don't want to forget it in my catching up.

What we've got here is Pine attacking vezok for voting Mastin over his gambit. There's no GreyICE vote, there's defense of Toon Fighter and He accuses Vezok of trying to ride it too a lynch, which is an obvious lie, since here were all of Vezok's posts from the time he voted Mastin until Pine's post:

HAHAHAHAHA.

FAIL gambit is FAIL.

unvote
vote mastin

There is no way someone sued a lie detector in a normal. NO WAY.
I had THEME games with a lie detector in them and the reviewer told me that lie detector is bastard and I should get it out.

Hoopla and Haylen reviewed the setup. There is no way both of them let a lie detector in the game. No way at all.

Mastin either tried a fail town gambit or is scum fake claiming to save a buddy or whatever WIFOM he thinks he can make.

unvote
vote hiplop

It's already ridiculous.

VOTE: Hiplop

Yeah, I just read your reasoning. That's nowhere near enough and stinks of handwaving to avoid further questioning.

I'll be happy with what we learn from your flip and overnight.

UNVOTE: Hiplop
VOTE: Toon Fighter

I doubt Scum under pressure would claim VT on D1.. blarg.

You'd argue they would?

Claiming VT is more or less like saying "go ahead". I can't see Scum not claiming a PR, at the very least to aid their team by outing the real PR before their death.

And that's a hammer without a claim.. -_-

Why the hell did you do that?

This series of posts reads as: I'm going to vote Hiplop for some reason, but not because I think he's scum. I am going to attempt to appear pre-town by unvoting town for a stupid reason [scum claim VT regularly]. Now, I am going to coach Toon Fighter to claim. Finally, I am angry because TF didn't get a chance to claim, and I get another chance to try to appear pro-town.

Mastin2's getting everything wrong hilariously.

/thread

VOTE: Edmund

Nice trap from chkflip.. Mastin's reads (excluding myself) have some merit. I'm looking forward to his next set actually.. 'tis interesting to see his thought process, verbose though he is..

So he goes from Mastin is scum getting everything wrong to Mastin's reads have merit and voting with him . . . . No dice. Not town.

[Zdenek]

zMuffinMan

Actually, mastin is town for #7 and that big reads list which is overly elaborate. But yeah.

Mastin is town for saying that he's town and an early made-up reads list = Bullshit.

Then there's his shitty argument with Hiplop over how doing things that can seem pre-town can be scummy. Which is basically drivel because someone thinking that can't have any bearing on their alignment, and he went on and on about it.

I think tomie is suggesting that our reactions to mastin looks like scum-on-town reactions, which is kind of stupid. Looks like pointless fence-sitting and possibly setting up lynches further down the line.

Derp, mastin is scummy but if he's town bowser and muffin need to be looked at. Glorious fence-sitting goodness.

That was not fence-sitting or lining up lynches coming from Tomie, so that post just looks like an appeal to boiler-plate scum tells without any thought going into it.

And no, it doesn't say enough. It's very open to interpretation what you meant by me needing to be looked at if mastin is town. You think mastin is scum, right? Considering you've already pointed at where your vote is and acknowledged you're voting for him over other candidates, I think this is a fair assumption. But, apparently, I only need to be "looked at" if mastin is town.

That's not calling me scummy. That's setting up a false dichotomy.

Here we have him accusing Tomie of setting up a false dichotomy, another boiler-plate scum tell. How does it work - Tomie thinks Mastin is scum, but if Mastin flips town, then zMuff "needs to be looked at." This is not a false dichotomy because there are certain things that may look bad after a flip. So what we have here is zMuff trying to attack Tomie on two incompatible fronts: for fence-sitting by saying that he'll need to be looked at, and for setting-up the false dichotomy, which would only be possible if Tomie was suggesting that if Mastin is town, then zMuff is scum.

PS: Your reads are craptastic, Zdenek.

malpascp or chkflip or CSL or zdenek or pappums

We agree on 1/2 of my reads . . . and you go with craptastic? This is scum exaggeration.

[Zdenek]

Toon Fighter ( 11 ) - zMuffinMan, chkflip, Empking, edmund.angles, warriormode, hiplop, David Xanatos, HezLucky, sorgster, Bowser, vezokpiraka

Maxous ( 10 ) - GreyICE, Zdenek, warriormode, malpascp, HezLucky, CSL, Empking, sorgster, David Xanatos, GreyICE (vezok if not for the double vote)


chkflip ( 7 ) - edmund.angles, GreyICE, David Xanatos/Pine, Amrun/PR, Hez, CSL, Vezokpiraka, honorary - Sorgster.

Mastin, look at these wagons and tell me again why we shouldn't be voting chkflip.

[Zdenek]

Mastin, who are the scum on the wagons?

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote David Xanatos

[Zdenek]

zMuff is a in irritating child, but at least he's not a stubborn fool.

[Zdenek]

I'm more willing to vote malp than amrun.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote malpascp

[Zdenek]

DX should claim.

[Zdenek]

Vote David Xanatos

[Zdenek]

also

sorgster is scum

discuss

Sorg is essentially mod confirmed town because of the post where Neruz told empking to be nice to the new player - no mod tells town to be nice to scum.

[Zdenek]

Bad argument.

Nice to know that you are scum this game.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think a mod would do something to clear a person as town?

I think it was an accident.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think a mod would do something to clear a person as town?

I think it was an accident.

Why wouldn't a mod defend newbie scum the same as newbie town?

I mod shouldn't and usually wouldn't do any of these things. But in this case, we have Empking being aggressive with Sorg and if Sorg was scum, the mod would probably have seen it as legimate scum hunting and wouldn't have said anything.

[Zdenek]

I do not disagree.

[Zdenek]

Sorg, I did not die.

Hezlucky did. I assume he was a bodyguard that kills the attacker. In this case I guess it was Amrun attacking GreyICE.

I am suspicious of CSL since Amrun's flip. He was suspicious of pappums all of day one, but said nothing about him after D1, considering the number of dead scum after N1, there's obvious motivation to do that.

[Zdenek]

Vote Mastin

I am confirmed town for secret reasons that Mastin is ignoring, so he is scum.

[Zdenek]

I would be fine with reducing the length of the nights, but for days, it depends on activity.

[Zdenek]

I'm a VT.

CSL next.

[Zdenek]

Mod: I know it's premature for a prod, but could you give CSL a reminder about the game.

[Zdenek]

Vote Mastin

Look at the BS he's posting all game, then imagine that it is anyone else. That person would have been strung up long ago.

[Zdenek]

Vote Mastin

[Zdenek]

I guess that's the game . . .

[Zdenek]

*Waits for a comment about honorary townies*