NY 143: Mafia on the Gulf Coast (Game Over!)

[Amrun]

We should be PLing one of

Furcolow
Bogre
Lowell
Amrun

vote:Lowell

Lol you wish. In no way, shape, or form, am I candidate for policy lynching. You're just butthurt because I caught you in [redacted] and you didn't think my case was good enough.


THAT BEING SAID, I fully support a Lowell lynch.

VOTE: Lowell

[Amrun]

VOTE: zombeh-pug

contrived

[Amrun]

Lowell is always an awesome policy lynch, but in reality-land, policy lynches are mostly a waste of town's time. It's better than a totally random vote, however.

Of course my vote on Zombie whatever is weak; it's based off of one post. I do happen to think that that particular post is pretty bad, though. That's how the beginnings of games always are. That's how games

work

.

Now I'm feeling uncomfortable about your alignment already. I know you're more competent than to think your reason for voting is valid, and yet you're voting me for my vote being weak. It doesn't add up.

[Amrun]

Vote hopping in rvs is completely, 100% invalid to the point of silliness. It's also not a scumtell anyway.

What is opportunistic about my voting?

I jumped off of a seemingly viable policy lynch option on someone I'd dearly love to policy lynch (and have plenty of meta backing up how much he fucking annoys me and other lynch attempts out of sheer annoyance, sometimes successful) to vote for someone who made an awkward RVS. That is literally the opposite of opportunistic and I'm not sure you understand what that word means.

[Amrun]

A. Policy lynch proposed = Opportunity
B. Jumping on said PL with flimsy reasons (It's not like he's Deity Kabuto or Beck) = Opportunism

Uh, what?

And honestly, Lowell is almost as bad as Deity Kabuto in my eyes. He annoys the SHIT out of me. If I had posted before whomever else proposed it, I would have voted Lowell because he's by far the most annoying player on this list. Like I said, I have meta to back that up, so I don't really care.

But you are making no sense. If I were joining the wagon out of sheer opportunism, I wouldn't have hopped off of it one post later.


Nero Cain, you also don't make sense. There is no contradiction there. They're totally, completely different things. What does vote hopping in early game (which is a better term than "RVS," which I used before) have to do with making contrived posts in early game? NOTHING. If Zombie had simply made a random vote with dice, or rng, with no pomp and circumstance, it wouldn't have stood out to me. But instead, he made a show of it. It was awkward, and the scummiest thing in the game thus far, which isn't saying a whole lot given the stage of the game.

As for that other game, it wasn't a great game for me, and while I think you're wrong, it's unimportant and I'd like to drop it. For whatever reason, you are looking for a reason to lynch me that has nothing to do with this game, and I'd appreciate if you stopped pretending I was scummy.

[Amrun]

And thanks for ruining my perfectly viable reaction test on Zombie.

[Amrun]

Pine, seriously? It's not "nervous," and that entire thing is bullshit. It's trying to move the game out of RVS. Herpaderp?

[Amrun]

oh god the newbies in this game.

A large newbie.

[Amrun]

I could address how stupid your posts are, to be frank, but I'm not sure there's a point. Basically everything you have posted is incorrect for one reason or another, but I get a general town vibe from your posts.

Hint: I've posted more content than anyone else so far.

p-edit: What reason do you have to think Isa is scum? Is it independent of me?

[Amrun]

pedit: Amrun, this is why I dislike many of your posts. You don't answer many claims and dismiss people as stupid. This attitude will not get you very far, and turns many people against you, needlessly.

Honestly? I don't care. Once again, there are no "claims" I haven't "answered." I think you are a little mixed up about that. I haven't called anyone stupid, either, and I'm generally liked on the site, so I guess it's just you.

And how are they stupid, when I am simply tossing out ideas and trying to generate discussion when we have...3 pages to go on?

I know you're just throwing things out there, and that's fine. A lot of the things you're saying are based on entirely false premises - for example, a case based on "bussing" when no one has flipped is not a good case. HOWEVER, that's okay with me, and discussion early game is often weak in order to lead to better discussion. As long as everyone realizes that, it's fine, but I can already tell this group might be the type to seriously not figure that out, which is already annoying me. Sigh.

[Amrun]

PE2: You're offtrack. Isa characterizing of RVS votehopping is stupid to the point of cringing, but it's a newbtell, and completely null. It's like if I were to vehemently argue that the sky is actually a pale teal instead of blue. It's simply wrong.

Nope.jpg




BUT IN OTHER NEWS

Isa showed me that my scumtell on Zombie is null.


VOTE: Lowell

Maybe we can force him to post!

[Amrun]

Pine, kiwi isn't the one doing that....


But Lowell is seriously a liability in LyLo and that needs to be taken into account. No one else on this list that I know if is that bad.

[Amrun]

Furc is a crapshoot. He can do well or really poorly, and I'd like to give him a chance first.

[Amrun]

Stupid posts =/= stupid person. And kiwi acknowledged that she's just throwing things out there, and that's fine, and I have a townread on her so far. Doesn't make the things she's posting correct. She's just a newbie; it happens. I have a feeling with some experience, she'll shape right up. Go ahead and argue that "bussing" is a good argument without flips. I dare you.

In general, policy lynches are a bad idea, ESPECIALLY if they stifle conversation. However, perhaps a significant wagon on Lowell will force him to post content. That's worth it. Also, so far, conversation hasn't been stifled.

While policy lynches are to be avoided, with LyLo-liability players, they really need to be acknowledged as a possibility. If they're going to happen, it needs to be day 1, and then seeing how pushed it and how can be really useful as a jumping off point for the rest of the game, with the flip in mind.

I disagree about Lowell, and have NEVER seen him play a game I didn't want to murder him with a rusty spoon in. Worst lurker ever. However, if he proves himself by posting, that's all to the good.

And certainly a policy lynch is a good way to get the ball rolling with a player list that hasn't even posted yet for the most part.



Nobody has said anything I need to answer. Your definition of "things that need answering" is vastly different from mine. Once again, please refrain from using the words "typical" in regards to me, since you don't know me at all. I will say that I

am

abrasive and that is just my personality. I do not mean anything personal to anyone with anything I say. The past week or so I've been kind of bitchy in games and idk why. I'm lacking patience lately.

[Amrun]

Not sure what the joke is, but I see it.

[Amrun]

a) Not a man. b) Not a newbie, though all is relative, of course.

And I made a pretty detailed post about my thoughts on policy lynching Lowell.

[Amrun]

Policy lynches are bad, but suffering a game with Lowell may be worse.

[Amrun]

also he knows i will follow through on that shit

[Amrun]

zing!

vote: Lowell

why are you even CONSIDERING a policy lynch (i hope i find out you are joking later on). as tempting as stringing up Lowell is day one, we can't learn diddly from it. who knows, he could become confirmed town later in the game and we won't have to worry about it.

So let me clarify your position. You're voting Lowell, but you think lynching him is a bad idea and we won't learn diddly from it?

Come again?

Wow, don't know how I failed to notice that. Ha.

[Amrun]

VOTE HOPPING IS NOT ANY TYPE OF SCUMTELL EXCEPT MAYBE LIKE IN LYLO. Ugh.

[Amrun]

Please identify which of your posts have been "bitchy".

No.

[Amrun]

I have to agree with you on this. Regardless as to whether or not you like a player, simply lynching them D1 (especially if they are town aligned), with so few posts, won't reveal any information and it's a free kill for scum.

You know Lowell is town, then?

[Amrun]

I have to agree with you on this. Regardless as to whether or not you like a player, simply lynching them D1 (especially if they are town aligned), with so few posts, won't reveal any information and it's a free kill for scum.

You know Lowell is town, then?

It's the whole context, not out of context.

You're arguing that lynching Lowell day 1 won't reveal information (false) and is a free kill for scum.

You add the stipulation "especially if town," but it's awkwardly tacked on, and makes little sense besides. If the person in question (Lowell, this time) were scum, neither of the things you say would be true. It would be a wealth of information and not at all a free kill for scum.

It just seems like it comes from a mindset of knowing Lowell is town but not wanting to slip.

Also, you still didn't address your strange vote for ConSpiracy, even after it was mentioned. I'm waiting.

[Amrun]

I read it as a vote. My mistake.


I actually do think Lowell is playing to his scum meta, for the record.

[Amrun]

I didn't say it was a slip.

[Amrun]

The day ending in a policy lynch is was always very slim. ABJ and Kiwi (off the top of me head) thinking that it was actually going to happen is just stupid and pretty scummy to defend Lowell like that.

Kiwi is a raw noobie, which needs to be taken into account.

ABJ, on the other hand....

(ABJ - Yes, you're missing something.)

[Amrun]

Vote hopping in rvs is completely, 100% invalid to the point of silliness. It's also not a scumtell anyway.

What is opportunistic about my voting?

I jumped off of a seemingly viable policy lynch option on someone I'd dearly love to policy lynch (and have plenty of meta backing up how much he fucking annoys me and other lynch attempts out of sheer annoyance, sometimes successful)

to vote for someone who made an awkward RVS

.

These statements contradict each other me thinks. You think "RVS" hoping is NOT scummy but you think "akward RVS posts" are scummy.

vote: Amrun

Do you truly see that as a contradiction? RVS votehopping and awkward posting are clearly different things.

VOTE: Nero Cain

True RVS posts are useless and hollow. To find one thing in RVS scummy and another RVS thing to not be scummy is a contradiction.

Wrong.

[Amrun]

I was, but I legitimately found that post scummy, until it was pointed out he does it in every game.

[Amrun]

Zombie totally ignoring that is also kind of scummy actually.

[Amrun]

But seriously, those two things ARE NOT THE SAME but I think you're just mistaken over this rather than pushing something wrong to distract.

[Amrun]

Obviously, I have.

[Amrun]

Bogre, that's not IIoA.

SV, you don't get off the hook so easily.

[Amrun]

150 and 152 look like deliberate stalling.

fos mist

No vote?

Seriously, Lowell can die and I'm totally cool with this. Chances are he flips scum.


Zombie, can you tell me how experienced you are with mafia?

[Amrun]

Amrun: Suspicions? Do you honestly see Lowell as scummy, or are you just pushing for a PL along with Nero?

I have a lot of catching up today, but doing an early Thanksgiving with the in-laws today, so maybe I'll get to it tonight or maybe tomorrow night.

Right now, going to answer the above question since it was nice and bolded and easy to see, but just letting everyone know if anything else was addressed to me, I haven't seen it yet, but I will eventually.

I do find Lowell scummy, yes. I wanted to see if a PL early wagon would get a rise out of him, and it did. He tries a lot harder as scum. He's also doing derpy shit like FoSing without moving his non-serious vote to a serious candidate, and that's definitely scummy.

I also resent the implication that I haven't done any scumhunting, because I most certainly have. I took a lot of flak for it, too. But whatever.

[Amrun]

Why would you not post it now?

[Amrun]

I hate Alabaska's [url=
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3599940]post 180.[/url] It's a bunch more contentless filler quote-stripes, with a horrible vote for Shattered Viewpoint mixed in. To top it off, it's followed by:

seeing as i'm voting someone, i'm not sure how you can say i'm not showing suspicions. this argument just reeks of scum trying find someone to lynch and grasping at straws. i want ShatteredViewpoint's horrific cop-out to be discussed more than it is being, so i'll refrain from voting, but i'll make it explicit so you don't have to (gasp) infer anything. i find you suspicious.

You think you're "showing suspicions" by throwing down the EASIEST VOTE IN THE WORLD with zero explanation? You can say after the fact that you wanted more discussion of SV, but you didn't ask him one question. You didn't do anything, in fact, but quote his post and vote him. No questions, no statements, no probing alignment - just "I see this is a good excuse to vote; plop down and move on."

Before this, I kind of took your aimless, filler-filled posting as a sort of posting style, which it probably is, but that progression is legitimately scummy.

Oh, and I am basically never going to read your quote stripes again. There are better, more readable ways of posting, and I think you're using it as an excuse to avoid content.

As Bogre says very well in post 198, Alabaska's posting page-length analysis and gaining NO READS from it. It's a smokescreen, and I think we should all agree not to read his quotestripes to take away his crutch.

VOTE: AlabaskaJ

--

Spoiler: Sampson/ConSpiracy conversation

Sampson

I feel obligated to place an RVS vote.

Vote: Princess Kiwi

because kiwis frighten me.

But since it doesn't feel like RVS in here:

Unvote

--
Hm. The most striking thing to me so far is Isa's townread on Amrun. Mostly because I don't see how RVS vote hopping is a towntell (it's not much of anything, really). I don't think Isa defending Amrun implies a connection between the two, but to make such a statement as severe as a townread with such little content in the game so far is pretty...bizarre. It makes her posts in defense of Amrun forced and less genuine.

Vote: Isa

This post is a classic newbscum post. First he wants to make sure that he passed RVS and after that he targets someone for having an early town read, for newbs an easy reason to target someone when it is not a scum tell.

The truth is I just like the silly reasoning portion of RVS. I was just having some fun. It was obvious to me that RVS was just about over by the time I posted. And of course I'm going to find it suspicious if I disagree with the basis for an early game townread.

I completely agree with ConSpiracy here and award him townpoints for it - and for the rest of his post; ConSpiracy is town. Sampson, on the other hand, is making scummy posts back to back. This is something I almost always find scummy; HOWEVER, there's a certain amount of genuineness to his straightforwardness, and I'm not ready to go after it yet.

Sampson, what is your previous experience with mafia?

--

Lowell, can you give me a legitimate reason you're voting for Shattered Viewpoint? Because right now it just seems like you're doing exactly what you talked about in post 236 and going, "A free lynch, no questions asked? Yes, please!"

--

VOTE: Mist Beauty

A penny for your thoughts...or a vote.

Content during the first day, then BAM I DISAPPEAR, still actively plays other games. Lurking noted.
We're also past page 8. Get yourself together.

What is the point of this post? Calling out someone on v/la for activity, in a sole post all by itself? This is the first post of Isa's that gives me bad vibes.

--

Also, bvoigt's vote on MacDougall rubbed me the wrong way. It was such a minor little comment, and the last time I saw him attacking people just for using words like "OMGUS," he was scum in Chesskid's game, previously mentioned, I believe.

However, other things he's said have given me town vibes, like this:

NC's accusation of Sampson looks somewhat town. If he was scum, he'd probably just be happy to have someone join him on his mislynch attempt, and wouldn't call someone out on their vote of me.

--

Otherwise, these people are town by varying degrees:

-ConSpiracy
-Nero Cain
-Furcolow
-Bogre

Less so:

-Shattered Viewpoint

By his own merit, he's null, but with the way everyone piled on him for the cheapest reasons ever, I'd bet that he's town. There's too little resistance otherwise. It's not a sure thing, though.


I'm having better luck with townreads than scumreads this game, but I'll take it.

[Amrun]

Amrun hiding suspicious behavior.

What am I hiding?


Bvoigt: Why do you think Nero Cain is scum, especially after you pointed out one major reason he is town?

[Amrun]

I'm so annoyed that Shattered Viewpoint is the leading wagon.

[Amrun]

No response to me, Isa?

V/LA until Monday due to tho holidays

Noted. - ToD

I will try to pop in occasionally, but no guarantees.

[Amrun]

Why are you posting here?

[Amrun]

I'm still v/la.... God, catching up on this game is going to suck.

[Amrun]

OH MY GOD how are there 13 pages for me to read in this game... *cries*

I'll do it asapp but I have a lot to catch up on.

[Amrun]

oh teehee

Anyways Amrun with all the posting your doing on the resta the site I think you could have read by now.

But reading is so hard.

I'm having a hard time focusing.

I've had this thread open for like 2 hours and I've made almost no headway.

I'm going to whine about it some more in hopes that it helps me.

I really do have a fuckload rest to catch up on ms, let alone schoolwork, let alone let's-get-distracted-and-play-league-of-legends.

[Amrun]

ME

Once I catch up.

But seriously.

Me. I'm just 12 pages behind.


But zmuffinman, please read and inject some non-wall-filled life here. Shake it up.

[Amrun]

Can someone tell me what the even-night shenanigans are?

Right now I have no idea why tajun isn't getting votes over MB but I need to do some more work before laying down a vote.

[Amrun]

x-night, actually, sorry

[Amrun]

What does "1/2 shot" mean?

[Amrun]

Oh, one or two shot. I read it as 50% shot. Heh.

[Amrun]

Bulletproof claims aren't very town-ish claims anyway, tbh. It's indicative of SK or possibly Godfather.

1-2 shot is less suspect.

Awhile back bulletproof claims were lynched instantly.

[Amrun]

Okay, so while I still haven't fully caught up, I can say I won't be voting Tajun today.

There is ZERO reason scum or sk would counterclaim in that situation. NONE.

Scum, knowing the other person was not-scum, would not want to push a 1v1 unless absolutely necessary. One mislynch is NOT worth it. Scum never benefit from 1 for 1 exchanges.

So, while I don't think MB v Tajun is necessarily 1v1, I am willing to vote MB, and is it is nearing deadline, I will.

VOTE: Mist Beauty

We have a plurality ruling so it's not 100% necessary, but so be it.

And Mist, if you really are telling the truth, let this be a lesson to you: don't claim bulletproof. It's anti-town.