Normal 10 (Intrigue Mafia) - Deadline: March 18th 11am.


Kelvin
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Post Post #146 (isolation #0) » Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:20 pm

Post by Kelvin »

Sorry for length of post.


Bobacino:

In my defense (which I will offer even though it currently appears unnecessary), the past week and a half I have been rather occupied with a death in the family. My only other game is in the themed section, and as I hadn't logged in before looking at posts, I did not notice the PM indicating that the game had started. Good job on prosecuting the silent ones; they aren't good people even if they're townies.


Mathcam:

I must say that your
Tri-Random
council voting idea seems a good way to avoid signing the death warrant of some single non-scum, if a bit inelegant.

As to your thoughts on the likely non-randomness of the demographic: I find them unconvincing. It seems to me that since we are only given one instance, we can not proceed with a high degree of confidence to vote based on them save that we know there to be present an imposed order, likely attributable to human error or possibly emergent epiphenomena--chaos math, you're so cool. For that we must look to the creator of the system; is it likely that he would allow such a mathematically crass mistake to spoil our game of truth and deceit and logic?

Given my limited contact with cuban smoker, I would say no. What I have noted of him, the pompousness of the sesquepidillionaire, the basic grasp of logic of the mathematically literate, I believe indicate a high-enough degree of education to make it unlikely he made this mistake.

But you knew all that. I think you've been expressing some CrapLogic. Given the eminent utility of your Tri-Random vote, I think you not scum, for scum would likely withhold such. I must therefore assume you to be hoping to rouse a reaction from scum, as I did in my first mini-game.

And I think you've gotten one. jeep's defense at first amounted to a tu quoque sort of 'I could throw together an anyhow algorithim aimed at lynching non-mafiosi too, if I were scum like you.' When I have been scum, my first instinct when accused has always been to shift the blame, for illogical accusals oftentimes produce worthwhile results.

For that reason,
FOS
jeep, not because the demographic has been scragged up by the mod, but because he smells scummy.

I thank you for your good ideas thus far. I would like to point out that what usefulness 'cam has had has likely made him a target for a night-kill, so if there is a doc out there undecided on who to protect 1st night I'd suggest the cam of math.


Mod:
1. Is the mayor a member of the town council (i.e., is his vote required to make the overriding Council lynch)?

2. What are the conditions required to 'jail' someone?


Those from the West side, that is, the best side:
I'd like to point out that in considering whom to vote for this evening that one might well remember I am young, sound in body, of good cheer among companions, of good repute in the community; that I attend neither the Catholic nor the Lutheran but rather the moderate Methodist church; that my grandfather served in WWII; that while I am unmarried I am as yet childless, undiseased, and cleanly; that while I am not rich I am neither poor; that while I speak well publicly I do so briefly; and that I really like boobies. Thus I wish to announce my campaign for the West Side.

I should like to suggest that us West-siders, if not voting me, vote for one of the following three for Council: Bobacino for his board-presence, Tigris for his cajoling one-shotters into motion, and Leonidas for his classicism.

Vote Night Stalker
for not posting today.
Kelvin
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Post Post #177 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 11, 2003 12:31 pm

Post by Kelvin »

jeep:

Glad someone caught that! Sadly, I find it rather easy to write gnomicly, especially if I've been reading the right books recently.

I still think you (or your posts rather) taste evil.

Open elections (ones that allow one to more or less know the results of the night's council votes before dawn) will tend to make the unscummy candidates targets. Reason being, it requires either two or three votes together to have a majority in council (assuming quorom is just barely reached in the former case). If we assume a mafia:town ratio of 6 in 30 (which I take to be low enough to be a safe number), then of the eight elected positions (including vices) 1.6 of them will be filled by mafia, assuming some sort of perfectly random vote distribution. --I started out trying to explain to you why tri-random voting is better than random (or other sorts) of voting. Yet now that I look at the numbers, it seems extremely unlikely that mafia will be unlikely to be able to do anything useful with their seats on council. If mafia are prominently killing townsfolk, then they set themselves up as targets, and a 1:1 or even 1:2 or 3 kill ratio doesn't cut it for mafia: they must be more efficient than that to win by their own offices.

Thus being on the council seems to set you up as a big fat target for both vigilantes, lynching, and scum murder.


I therefore have another suggestion regarding who we vote to council: let's let the people that want it have it. Thus far, to the best of my knowledge, Polarboy, SaberKitty, and I have expressed interest in being on the council. SaberKitty and I have done so because we rather like the notoriety or supposed power a council seat would bring; I have not gotten a feel for Polarboy as of yet. The benefit of a non-random assortment on the council is that pro-town investigative, damage-reduction, and other roles can stay away from campaigning, and those of us with non-integral roles can step up as targets. If I am killed night one, it's no big loss to the town (save for my cleverness in seeing past posts to evil); if the cop or doc dies, things get a bit worse.

So let us campaign; let those of us who wants it, go for it. I declare frankly that I wish to be on the council, and I intend to start the Vigilante Anti-Defamation Party. The slogan is 'A Few Dead Townies Is a Small Price To Pay To Destroy Scum.' While it is a bit unwieldy, it's honest. And heartfelt.

Our platform includes the legalization of marijuana, the lynching of jeep, and the destruction of all mafia, subject to the ratification of all Party members. Hopefully mathcam will agree to be my Chief of Staff and the party's General Secretary, and jeep my PR man and the Party's Conversation Assassin. SaberKitty and Polarboy, you are cordially invited to run under our ticket in your respective ridings.

Up with the town! Down with the scum! Bring on the Night!


Unvote: Night Stalker



Vote: PolarBoy



mod:

1. Are council votes on what to do with people in jail hidden to all, or hidden to non-council members, or public, or something else? That is, I get that they're made at night, are they like other night choices?

2. Will elected council members receive new information from the mod that is not public?

3. Can council members communicate at night (including the Mayor)?

4. Can people in jail vote, post, be lynched, or use night/role abilities? Can jailbirds communicate with their group (assuming that they have one)?
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Post Post #198 (isolation #2) » Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:26 am

Post by Kelvin »

PolarBoy wrote:Kelvin, please tell me some of that was a joke. For one, it would be fairly difficult for anyone to believe that my "campaign" was at all serious, let me reiterate it here: It wasn't.


I realize my reasoning might have been concealed by the verbiage. There's only the one reason my campaigning idea is better than randomness:

1. It let's people that don't want to be targets stay out of sight.

This obviously benefits mafia, as they work in darkness and confusion, but given the enormous benefit to the town of doctors and cops not being incidentally killed (i.e., through no choice of their own, they become high-profile), I think it does well. It also provides an excellent chance to catch out mafia should they try any scummy ways after being elected to council, although it does disturb me that council votes are secret.


mathcam wrote:I hear what you're saying, Kelvin, but it's a little sketchy to agree on a plan (at least, the vast majority of us did), and follow it through to the stage of picking names, and proposing an alternative plans only once the names have been revealed


It is. I wasn't thinking (perhaps the gravest sin a townie can commit). I should have posted this tomorrow. Nevertheless, it would be yet more inconstant for me to return from this plan to one I see as less beneficial. I shall think more deeply about the ramifications of what I say henceforth.

In truth, if any of you come way out against my plan, (depending on how well you reason) you paint a target on yourself, particularly if you were one of those I called out by name. In fact, such a stance would suit both mafia and strong-but-silent pro-town roles.

Thus I am at once tempted to un-vote PolarBoy, and to confirm my vote.


Let me say this as plainly as I may: PB, whatever damage you think may be done to the town by revealing your role (assuming you non-scum), I can't imagine it being greater than the damage to town if you are lynched. Let me assure that this last bandwagon will not go away unless a huge other target presents itself by someone's stupid mistake, or you provide a reasonable role-claim. Now, you may wish to dance close to the wire, allowing the tally to build and build before you are outed, but if you do so I at least will feel frustrated by your obduracy. And whether or not this is reasonable I think it is true that as a result we will be less inclined to believe you at that juncture, meaning you may well be lynched because we want to get to night (Bring on the Night!).


Unofficial Vote Count

10 RubberDuck (ambic, Corsato, DP, DS, jeep, PB, Polotet, mikegoo, jadesmar, Night Stalker)
7 PolarBoy (Porro, mathcam, warrior, Dourgrim, Kelvin, Leonidas, Bob)
2 warrior4037 (Werebear, GC)
2 NO LYNCH (AF, RD)
1 ambic (d8p)
1 DoomCow (CB)

I believe 16 to lynch, is that correct, cuban smoker?
Kelvin
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Post Post #231 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:31 pm

Post by Kelvin »

unvote: PolarBoy


vote: warrior 4037


I want to keep the pressure on warrior4037.


By my count he's not even close to being lynched, jeep, unless I randomly missed a page. I have him at 10 based on the last mod count plus the last page. Official count?


cuban smoker wrote:Whom council votes for in terms of lynching is public, in case there was any confusion. Night votes for jail are private. I hope this is less disturbing Kelvin.


Not really. The vote to lynch is obviously public; 'twas the other I was thinking of. Sorry for the equivocation. And yes, I do realize that a public council session would be rather silly. I was just hoping.
Kelvin
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Post Post #263 (isolation #4) » Sat Mar 15, 2003 8:41 pm

Post by Kelvin »

Dourgrim wrote:Out of curiosity, how do you feel a role claim can be "ridiculous and unbelievable" when we're playing in a game based on Improbable Role Mafia? I mean, the Flying Pumpkin is pretty unbelievable too, isn't it?


Oh no, a Flying Pumpkin's pretty believable. I mean, we have them commonly where I live.

But a Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass? That's incredible.


Okay, since we have a role claim from warrior4037, and no obvious mistake on his part, I rather want to adopt PolarBoy's plan for testing the veracity of warrior and Rubberduck. As such I find that the two people most suspicious to me at this point are Darkblade and Night Stalker.


Vote: Night Stalker
Kelvin
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Post Post #264 (isolation #5) » Sat Mar 15, 2003 8:41 pm

Post by Kelvin »

What I meant was
Vote: Night Stalker
.
Kelvin
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Post Post #281 (isolation #6) » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:13 am

Post by Kelvin »

Voting for RubberDuck: ambic, Werebear, Corsato, DarkBlade, DP, Polotet, mathcam, mikegoo, warrior, jadesmar, Night Stalker


Please, of those of you that are voting to load RD up with votes so he gets a high investigation, three of you please vote for NS.

As he has not given a convincing role-claim and RD has, it seems to me we should kill him.

DP, I take it that you still think him guilty by your previous post?

/goes off to reread first day.
Kelvin
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Post Post #282 (isolation #7) » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:14 am

Post by Kelvin »

/doesn't actually reread thread, instead breaks fast.

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