Mafia 50: The Big Five Oh - Game over!

[Sailor Jerry]

So what did Team Tracker turn up last night? Curious minds need to know.

[Sailor Jerry]

I've just read the exact same thing as you, at the exact same time as you, and I agree there's a clear choice...

I just didn't pick armlx... what's your reasoning?

[Sailor Jerry]

I suppose who you consider to be the easiest choice depends whether you believe Twomz' and Viper's cock-and-bull story about being tracker masons.

I think they're scum and I think they'll slip up.

Twomz... spill us some info about what you learned last night. I'm also still not sure you've given a quite clear enough story about EXACTLY what your role does.

You get to follow people? And then if they go out, you know about it, right? Do you also get to see where they go and what they do? And this applies to scum and non-scum alike, right?

Viper, feel free to chip in.

[Sailor Jerry]

Well, I don't think I should vote Twomz until he shows something that REALLY turns un my scumdar. I don't see anyone else that suspicious though. BJ's vote is just... strange, but... um... uh... I forget what I was saying. Carry on.

This is not something anyone would say about their mason buddy. You're lying - both of you.

vote: Twomz

[Sailor Jerry]

FOS: Viper

It'd be more suspicious if he wasn't eager for a lynch.

It's odd for a mason to say this too.

[Sailor Jerry]

Gotta love 2-for-1s.

[Sailor Jerry]

I'll

vote: Vyolynce

for now because of his defence of Nightfall yesterday. But,

i'm nowhere near as convinced of him being mafia.

That makes me think you targetted Vyolynce last night. I'm not actually so sure about that, but I think it's pretty likely.

I suppose while I'm doing 'things mason buddies just wouldn't say', I should ask why Viper didn't know whom Twomz targeted.

Do you guys just not talk to each other?

[Sailor Jerry]

I figured that since we've seen two kill methods that there was probably two scum groups... I'll have a reread and give it some more thought.

It's mortifying that I'm getting voted for lack of participation by the way

[Sailor Jerry]

I know - just pointing out the irony

I don't mind the vote... I'm just concerned that if it turns into a bandwagon the maybe-masons will use the distraction as an opportunity not to respond to the posts that I find suspicious.

Maybe I'm just completely off base with this whole line of enquiry - but I'd like to at least hear what they have to say about it.

[Sailor Jerry]

Well, if you check back Bamboomancer was replaced by viper, and since like 3 people were replaced at once I had trouble remembering which one was my mason partner. (Or I was lazy and didn't want to double check)

So you just didn't talk? And Viper didn't contact you to say hi?

[Sailor Jerry]

Humor us with an explanation anyway.

[Sailor Jerry]

Would love to see Coron double-vote Fritzler now

[Sailor Jerry]

The fight between my "you're lying" instinct and my "am gonna look really dumb if wrong" instinct is giving me a headache.

[Sailor Jerry]

He's trying to lynch everyone obvious SK tell

What makes you think there are two SKs in this game?

I just think the masons are lying. I guess only time will tell!

Nothing i quoted from them seems suspicious to anyone else?

[Sailor Jerry]

There's not really a case to answer though, is there? Just so long as somebody rereads my posts tomorrow.

But I do think that you should be looking harder for information. There are 28 pages here of posts. I've at least tried to find something scummy - the rest of you are lynching on no evidence. It's worth investing some time in this game and not following blindly into a lynch.

From a purely metagame point of view also - if you lynch every new player (first game!) just for participating - even if he looks overeager to you - then it's no wonder that scum win so many games just by lurking.

If anyone's got any specific points they want me to answer, then go ahead, but otherwise you may as well get it over with.

[Sailor Jerry]

There are three accusations against me.

1) I'm voting for the masons. I've explained, at length, why I'm doing it. I don't believe them and I've found corroborating evidence to back me up.

2) "I'm attacking everyone". Not entirely sure where this one came from because I've only pointed the finger at the masons.

3) I asked Max why he thought there were two SKs in the game. And it wasn't even an attack - I was just asking - because it made no sense to me to assume that there were.

Maybe I'm just being a noob - but MoS just seems to have gone all crazy about my lynch and I'm not sure why.

[Sailor Jerry]

This will almost certainly be the final nail in my coffin... but I'm inclined not to roleclaim.

I hope that some kind of logic will prevail before my lynch but, if not, I think that the town will understand my reasons for not doing so once they see my role.

Sorry :/

[Sailor Jerry]

Please summarize the logic behind Sailor Jerry bandwagon in exactly 5 sentences.

Greatly apreciated.

-Coron.

For the record, this is a good post. Somebody want to have a bash at trying it? MoS maybe?

[Sailor Jerry]

So I must be scum?

[Sailor Jerry]

Max: there's already one dead.

[Sailor Jerry]

No matter which thread i visit... somewhere along it Max will be there, being an idiot and just not realising it.

[Sailor Jerry]

Prefer armlx to The Ace, especially while he's been lurking today and hoping that someone else gets bandwagoned.

I prefer the masons to either - but you all know that already.

[Sailor Jerry]

One apiece i think.

[Sailor Jerry]

Twomz and viper are still the play - hopefully a cop will back me up tomorrow. If there are really only three choices, it's clear nobody's going to pay any attention to a plan D.

unvote, vote: Armlx

as the best of a bad bunch.

[Sailor Jerry]

The Lurker speaks!

[Sailor Jerry]

Another lurker speaks! They're all coming out of the woodwork now we're in wagon country! w00t!

[Sailor Jerry]

Yikes what a horrible post.

So you're admitting we're masons, but still want to lynch us anyway? That's extremely antitown imo.

No! What have you been reading? I don't think you're masons at all! But one man does not a lynch make.

If BJ were still in this game SJ would be lynched already :-/.

Ain't that the damn truth.

[Sailor Jerry]

So... I omitted the scare quotes. What's your point? If you're not clear about where I stand, please read the following.

1) I do not believe that you and viper are telling the truth when you claim to be masons.
2) I

have never

believed that you and viper were telling the truth when you claimed to be masons.
3) I have never

indicated

that I believe your claim.
4) Even while I do not intend to repeat my thoughts in every post I make, I will continue to disbelieve your claim until the town is offered some evidence that backs it up.

And please stop using words like "proven" and "known" in relation to your shaky claim. A word like "self-proclaimed" would be more appropriate in light of the fact that we have NOTHING other than your collective word to go on.

The statement that I've made a doc claim is also rubbish. I have made no claim at all. And the more riled scum get about it, the more convinced I am that it was the correct play.

[Sailor Jerry]

OK if this discussion is reopening I'll get back onto my wagon.

Just reread posts 653, 655 and 658.

They. Are. Not. Masons.

unvote, vote: Twomz

[Sailor Jerry]

Unbelievably, that post actually makes some sense.

On a reread you'll see why reason 1 is rubbish, I'm sure, but reasons 2 and 3 are the first things I've heard in defence of Twomz that actually make me think. Gimme a sec to mull it over.

In the meantime, I'm not making you mislynch me. I'm suggesting you don't mislynch me. Twomz, MoS and StD are making you mislynch me.

[Sailor Jerry]

@ MBL:

I've been trying to deflect lynches on people I know didn't preform a kill, but i don't wish to reveal who did what, so that I can check claims later on.

Liar. Just spill it and let's check YOUR claim.

[Sailor Jerry]

random.

can we have a vote count please?

[Sailor Jerry]

I'm not ecstatic about an armlx lynch - but better him than me.

unvote: Twomz, vote: Armlx

Twomz... how about you track me tonight and Viper can tell me in the morning where I've been? Up for that as a challenge?

[Sailor Jerry]

More people voted for Bush than voted for Kerry. Does that mean it was a smart choice?

[Sailor Jerry]

I'd answer but i'm biased.

[Sailor Jerry]

Nothing's changed for me.

vote: viper0933

[Sailor Jerry]

vote: sailor jerry

Btw, I was right on my tell of the Ace. Messa so appy! I may or may not reveal this ultra super mafia tell. The only reason I wouldn't would be because if people knew about it they could counteract it. (i'm not voting Sailor Jerry from the super secret tell)

Wow how on earth do you know who is in the mafia and who isn't?

[Sailor Jerry]

Twomz... I think it's time you came clean with exactly what you know. Then we can judge for ourselves whether you're lying or not.

I know full well this post will attract accusations of fishing, but you're leading the town on, claiming to have a pro-town role that, as has been pointed out, looks completely alien in the theme of this game. What's more, you've completely failed to find any scum at all.

[Sailor Jerry]

StD... you still seem pretty dead set on my lynch... pourquoi?

[Sailor Jerry]

You seem dead set on icing the masons. Newbish or scumish (or even correct), I'm pretty sure that's not the play right now.

I wanted to know if the masons tracked you (because, if I were the mason tracker and you were coming after me, I would definately consider you as one of my options). I see twomz vote, and I think to myself, "hmm, Jeff, do you think that vote has anything behind it other than the grudge carried over from yesterday? I wonder..." So I asked. I didn't ask for all the information, I just asked based on what I thought made sense to me. If I made it seem like I was trying to fish information out from the mason tracker, well, then yes. In hindsight I'm sure if twomz were to have gotten something on you, he probably would have said something by now.

They. Don't. Have. Any. Info. On. Me.

They. Don't. Have. Any. Info. On. Any. Of. Us.

They. Are. Lying.

[Sailor Jerry]

How on earth would a townie claim help the town??

[Sailor Jerry]

You know why I want you to tell us what you're claiming to know.

But I believe a townie claim would help scum find better kills. And my question still stands... how would it help the town?

[Sailor Jerry]

So how would the townie claim help the town again?

[Sailor Jerry]

Fair enough. I guess if I'd said something as horrifically scummy as that I'd ignore anybody asking me to explain my actions too.

[Sailor Jerry]

I think this is a deliberate attempt to make me wet my trousers with anticipation.

[Sailor Jerry]

I second that motion.

[Sailor Jerry]

I already did. I nearly got lynched. Someone else do it.
Nobody cares that he's scum despite all the evidence.

[Sailor Jerry]

Ok next time you're masons... don't play around FOSing each other at the beginning of the game like cretins. It's basically deception and makes you look like scum. And it wastes a lot of everyone's time.

Unless M-M is mafia too - which would make it the bravest gambit in Mafia history.

unvote

Max though?

[Sailor Jerry]

MBL - do you know for a fact you weren't roleblocked?

[Sailor Jerry]

Twomz/Thok...

If it

did

come down to a choice between lynching your partner or revealing all your info so far, which do you think would make more sense?

[Sailor Jerry]

The temptation to lie is overwhelming. However, I'm going to sign my own death warrant with the truth.

I am a vanilla townie.

Why did I lead you on with the refusal to claim? Because I thought it made me seem like the doctor, which would dissuade you from my lynch and encourage me as a night choice. Both of which are good for the town.

However... I have nothing else to offer you in way of a defence and unless the trackers can back me up with night choice evidence, I fully expect to be the play today. Just let's try and not make it personal?

[Sailor Jerry]

Twomz... before you reveal your info you should probably challenge the people involved to tell you what they were doing on the nights involved.

[Sailor Jerry]

Umm... isn't that agreeing with me? Are you just mad because I needed supporting evidence for your shaky claim before I believed it?

[Sailor Jerry]

Umm... that's not what I said at all.

I suggested you challenge people to divulge their info before you reveal yours. That doesn't assert anything in terms of whether you do it before or after the mass claim.

I'm agreeing with you that I think it's best to wait until after the claims. Mister Aggressive.

[Sailor Jerry]

Understandable I guess given the circumstances.

I hope in the game post-mortem you'll understand why I felt I needed some evidence in favor of your claim.

[Sailor Jerry]

I was going to kick up a fuss about being vigged but if it confirms StD then it might be worthwhile. However, I think it would be far better to confirm a scum than confirm an innocent at this stage.

Therefore, it would be worth having StD vig me, and having Fritzler DENY permission.

That way, either:

I die - which confirms StD as innocent AND Fritzler as scum - or
I survive, which means that we're left to decide whether StD is scum, or both are telling the truth, but it has the advantage that I survive another day.

[Sailor Jerry]

I was going to kick up a fuss about being vigged but if it confirms StD then it might be worthwhile. However, I think it would be far better to confirm a scum than confirm an innocent at this stage.

Therefore, it would be worth having StD vig me, and having Fritzler DENY permission.

That way, either:

I die - which confirms StD as innocent AND Fritzler as scum - or
I survive, which means that we're left to decide whether StD is scum, or both are telling the truth, but it has the advantage that I survive another day.

Actually... the presence of two kills last night makes this a lot easier. If we take that to mean that StD is confirmed, then it just boils down to

If I die, Fritzler is lying. If I live, Fritzler's not.

Fritzler, are we cool with this plan?

Max, what do you mean?

[Sailor Jerry]

Does nobody get my point?

If we let Fritz activate his role - and StD kills me - then we've confirmed Fritz as scum. We can find out for certain one way or another tonight whether or not Fritzler's scum.

Isn't that a good thing?

Fritzler, what do you think?

[Sailor Jerry]

If you're scum:
your plan gets scum an extra kill when Fritz blocks STD.
today's plan scum dies tonight

If Fritz is scum:
your plan gets Fritz killed tomorrow
today's plan gets Fritz killed tomorrow

I think today's plan wins.

Thinkin SJ may be scum now, he's squirmin. No offense intended.

Not offensive - just annoying that nobody even bothers to try and understand my posts any more.

How are you intending to find out Fritz's alignment? Or do you just not care?

Fritz - can we have your input??

[Sailor Jerry]

wd guys... not entirely sure how we got there but a town win is a town win i guess