Mafia 52: Back to the Basics - Abandoned!

[Primate]

Vote StevieT92

(I'm a cop, got a guilty, doc better protect me tonight)

[Primate]

Ah stupid dice

random vote: primate

Come on you pansies! You can lynch me quicker than this, you're just not trying, are you? Show some backbone!

[Primate]

Six already?

Should I claim?

[Primate]

Pooky, townie lies face down in a pool of bodily fluid! Its day! with 19 alive, its 10 to lynch!

So the MO is death by incontinence? Nice...

Vote Yosarion2

[Primate]

WE WANT BLOOD!!

fix'd

[Primate]

Would appreciate it if someone unvoted, actually. TIA

Keeping vote on Yos for complaining that the bandwagon is big without unvoting.

[Primate]

'K, I thought it was the size you were commenting on.

Unvote

[Primate]

Oh, come on.cyou all can't be serious, unless you don't care about who you lynch. I haven't done anything unusual, unless you consider the entire Primate wagon as unusual. I don't believe this is going anywhere good, so I unvoted.

Question is, why did you even join in the first place? And what prompted the quck change of heart that invalidated your earlier reason?

[Primate]

To see what would happen, I suppose. Looks like it was a good decision, since people are now accusing me with very little basis.

Methinks that making yourself look scummy in order to catch scums is a less than ideal plan, especially when you do it as badly as you have, and have no way to drag yourself out of the hole. Was this 'plan' genuinely your intention from the minute you hopped on my bandwagon?

I don't know. I know the wagon had no real reason behind it, other then opprotunism, I suppose.

Interesting word choice here. What about my wagon did you think contained an opportunity?

[Primate]

Hi guys, im claiming cop right now
I got a guilty result on myself.

Vote Lordy

LIAR! I ROLEBLOCKED YOU LAST NIGHT.



....How long before this joke dies?



...Too late

[Primate]

Without the claiming process, there's no incentive to take votes off each other quickly. With pressure votes there tends to be a point where the pressure is released, something that isn't really likely here. There's no reason to take pressure votes off, so you simply get scum justifying their vote solely as a pressure vote, when in truth it is a bandwagon vote with intention to lynch. I say we should be more liberal with our votes, but have little genuine pressure voting. If we endorse pressure voting too highly, we simply hamstring ourselves when scum use it as an excuse later. Becuase we have so little info, every vote needs to be accounted for and allocated for a good reason, and I don't know if 'I want to apply pressure' is a good enough reason.

However, as long as it justified later, I think the most valuable place to put all the spare pressure that we have availaiable is into lurkerhunting. As there are no power roles, there is no reason for them to hide. Gotta get them to commit to stuff. Gonna wait till later till I pick my horse though.

Vote B Rob

I think his playing this game has been a bit too shaky to let go easily. He has commited at least one major change in behaviour, and since then, he has been defending both his earlier and later points of view, despite them being totally irreconcilable in goal and thinking. Also, your vote hopping seems distinctly not cool. You're voting Stevie for doing the effectively exact same thing you did, problem is, you were the sixth reasonless vote, whilst he was only the third (and was apparently not reasonless).

[Primate]

I concede that I made silly, silly mistakes. If you want to press it, it's up to you. You are voting Stevie for something that you did yourself.

It just seems hypocritical. If you are a townie, then you would know that a townie could commit the actions that he did, so why do you jump onto his wagon citing that fact as your major reason? If anyone would know better, it would be you. It just seems false somehow.

I suppose it could be a pressure vote, but apparantly you, similarly to me, don't believe in them. So either you're switching behaviour

again

, or being hypocritical. I think thats worth a vote, regardless of whether you call them silly mistakes or not.

[Primate]

Sorry, I misread. You never said that you dislike pressure voting, that was someone else.

Nevertheless, I still don't like it. Could you clarify why your vote is on Stevie, please?

[Primate]

By the way, who's got street cred here, just so we know? I'm thinking Fritzler, Glort, Primate, and Yosarian but I don't know who else.

My name *totally* deserves to be on that list.

[Primate]

Really? I was under the impression that we didn't have to take what people said at face value. If someone ends the day with a lynching vote and then says it was really just a pressure vote, I would be highly supsicious of that person.

This is kinda what I'm getting at. I suggested that we should force people to explain all their votes at the time of voting. You seem to be suggesting that we force them to explain, but after the fact. I'm saying that we should get people to admit exactly where their suspicions lie, in more detail than in other games, at the time of voting. We limit the opportunity for them to lie. And whilst it will likely give Coron a brain haemorrhage, setting higher ideals than normal can hardly be a unworthy cause. I know that scum wouldn't likely use pressure as a direct, solitary excuse, but I don't see why we should engender an atomsphere that makes it more acceptable. Besides, it's not so much the later votes I'm suspicious of, at this stage, it's the 4rd-5th votes that we should be looking out for. Y'know, the ones that actually make plausiable, juicy targets for pressure as an explanation? The ones that turn a bandwagon into a lynchwagon?

As for your example, no-one, scum or townie, would be 'tarded enough to hammah someone and fob it off as pressure, surely? It's self-contradiction of the highest-order, and totally unacceptable, even if it happened in a normal game it would probably get the voter lynched. I fail to see why you'd bother bringing it up.

[Primate]

Mystery Meat of Doom, you got some splainin' to doooooo.

UNVOTE; VOTE: Mystery Meat of Doom

Can we call that one vote-hopping too? For someone who was earlier saying that he wanted lotsa reasons for specific votes, the bandwagon hypocrisy just really isn't on.

Vote romanus

.

How do you justify your recent, vote-happy, lurkey-hunting persona with this one?

Votes are great, opinions about votes are even better and neccessary for building evidence.

I'll admit the reasons are there, but you just don't seem to illuminate the votes with the facts that you're asking from other people. The Stevievote just seemed ill-advised.

More when sober.

[Primate]

@Romanus. Scummiest thing in the game so far? Isn't that a bit of a stretch, really?

Also, I showed you one of your bandwagonny posts. The MMoD thing was fairly blatantly, IMHO, a mistake. And yet you chose to third-vote the wagon for no reason, giving up on a

fourteenth page

stevievote without even a small reason as to why you went over to MMoD from what must have been a mjor suspicion of yours for you to be voting him at this stage. Why did you give up on the steviewagon so quickly?

[Primate]

Unless the MMoD bandwagon gets a lot bigger, the main reason I dislike it as a final lynch for today is simply becuase of how little it tells us. In B Rob, Stevie, and to a lesser extent, Romanus, we have three credible wagons that actually give us tangible info about other people in the game. Even if they're revealed as townie after death, having concrete info about their alignment tells us really groovy stuff.

Also, do we really want to lynch MMoD on something that is a plausible mistake, if something more likely to be made by scum? Questioning him about his post has very little depth in terms of what we can learn from it, even if we ask the perfect questions. We can decide whether we believe him about the mistake, or whether we disbelieve him. But, even if you do disbelieve him, do you disbelieve him strongly enough to give other scummy people another day? Use it as additional evidence, by any means, but are you ballsy enough to lynch him solely on the strength of this one post?

I have not been all over the place, I have always stated why I am goin where I am going.

Actually, you don't, but w/ever.

Yosarian probably deserves some kind of goodposting thing for the last post, but I'm lazy.

The ace looks like a fun lurker-wagon. If he doesn't respond to your votes alone, it will have my support.

[Primate]

EBWODP

I looked at my PM, looked at Primate's joking cop claim in the pre-day one confusion, and almost fell for it, completely forgetting the theme of this game for a minute.

If Yos is scum, Stevie is.

[Primate]

EBWODP

I looked at my PM, looked at Primate's joking cop claim in the pre-day one confusion, and almost fell for it, completely forgetting the theme of this game for a minute.

If Yos is scum, Stevie is.

...how does that follow, again? Not that it's really relevent, but I'm curious as to your logic.

Sorry for trying to get an insight into your mind, but I reckon, in terms of the order you thought of stuff, game premise would go before insane-miller type things. So, if you were scum and stevie was innocent, I think that you would very quickly put it off as a joke. If however you were scum with stevie, there would be that moment of truth, in which you are willing to accept a cop in the game. All this only matters if you're scum, of course.

[Primate]

B Rob.

Then why the Romovote? Just out of interest.

The only wagon that wouldn't have my support is the stevie one.

Mod

I go away for a week on wednesday night, so replace me in this or bastard mod if necessary, but I'll have full access when I get back, so I hope it doens't come to that.

[Primate]

W/eva.

unvote Vote B rob

cya in a week guys.

[Primate]

Crap, I completely forgot about this game. Just give me a day or so in which I can reread today and think.

[Primate]

'K. I didn't get the time to do as much as I wanted, so I'm just gonna leave a stopgap.

Yos was a vaguely unfortunate kill. The guy spread his suspicion around a fair bit, meaning that even if he did get a lead and was killed for it, we would know which one, adding another layer to the Wifom Axelrod suggests.

Coron never posted. He prodded at Stevie breifly, but nothing Stevie would care about if he were scum.

WTF didn't we lynch B Rob yesterday? We were under an unstable deadline, and at any point day might end unexpectedly. Like it did, actually. Whilst I agree that the discussion that followed was very informative, I still think that B Rob's lynch would have been more so. I had assumed we were gonna lynch B Rob and end the day. What happened? Under a dealine, we have very little time for fucking abut.

@Spectrumvoid. The fact that the best piece of support you have for B Rob is over 300 posts ago doesn't inspire much as to the freshness of this wagon. Let's use this full day for something else. Something more contempary.

*sigh*

I'll vote someone when my brain starts working

[Primate]

Meh, I wanna wagon MMOD or The Ace. Mostly the Ace.

Problem is that votes on them look useless atm. Glork makes a good case for stevie, but I've seen stevie make the kind of unreasonable suspicions that Glork is calling him on a few times, get lynched for it, and come up town. Stevie seems to have taken on a messiah attitude at this stage, which I rankle against a little too.

But you know what I really dislike? I dislike the caseless diversions towards Maryita and Axelrod whilst being on the floor of the lynching block. I hate 'when I come up town' type arguments, simply because they aren't centrered in the present. If you have a case to make, make it now, where it can be used to catch scum, don't leave it for others to make after your death.

[Primate]

I guess that's the reason why Stevie seems scummy in 100% of his games. But he has definitely turned up scummy in some of them.

Well, I'm sure a fair few of us have been scum in the past. Doesn't mean we should be lynched for it in this game. In fact, the whole statement is fairly blatantly fallacious, from the point of view you're using it to defend.

[Primate]

We have a day, not matter how dumb SV looks, we have a full day.

Lets lurkerwagon.

In this

mountainous

game.

vote the ace

[Primate]

unvote vote lordy

C'mon guys, it'll be too late if we don't get them involved now.

[Primate]

vote the ace

[Primate]

This game needs 6 replacements too.

If there weren't already enough nails in this coffin.

Sucks to have both this and points closed down so close to each other.

[Primate]

R.I.P

I swear, what with this and Points, why does it seem like every game I'm scum in dies a death.

Scum were me, Axel, Romanus, M-M and Mos.

We were doing so well too...