NY 162: A Week at the Theatres (Game Over)

[Smashbard]

Amazing. I've never seen so many gambits thrown around on the first page before.

Zoneace: What are you talking about? lol.

Mr. Zepher: If ActionDan is a Lyncher, wouldn't that mean he is also town? Why would you go straight for the mislynch rather than the "confirmed" scum?

Konowa: So you believe ActionDan's claim?

KingdomAces: Can Paranoid Gun Owners be scum in a Normal set up?

Bacde: Can we lynch you instead?

Vote: Kdowns

I too am using the excuse that once a man's been scum in the past, the stain does not easily wash off. @_@

[Smashbard]

Chances are it would be impossible for him to have more information other than his role, his target, and the alignment of his target. Heh. So I guess sadly all these gambits should be taken with a grain of salt and just chalk it up to RVS?

Man and here I may have gotten all excited for nothing.

[Smashbard]

PGO claim is legit, wind-up is town. PGO Maf is retarded.

Smashbard, you realize ActionDan is joking about his "lyncher" claim, right?

Same goes for KingdomAces, you seem to be responding seriously to a non-serious post.

Even if that is so, I'm gonna wait to hear that from ActionDan himself as to whether or not he is joking. Because if he is then the possibility of Kiwoto being scum goes up a lot for reaffirming their belief that their vote is on scum. I'd like to think that not ALL information shared in the RVS is useless.

[Smashbard]

PGO claim is legit, wind-up is town.

I have seen mafia claim (town) PGO. I'm not sure I even recall which game, but I know I've seen it.

Since nobody can safely target the PGO at night without killing themselves, obviously it makes him safe from investigations and theoretically night kills. So as scum it would make perfect sense to claim PGO that way he can stay alive all game and nobody will question why he hasn't been nightkilled yet. I don't like it. But there's no way to refute it beyond lynching him. So we have one of those "Hated Townie" situations. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Smashbard]

I was responding more that I was 80% sure Dramonic was going to vote me during RVS because it's Dram and we're friendlies.

Interesting that of all the things I've said so far THAT'S the thing you find suspicious.

"I was scummy a bunch of other times and you only quoted ONE thing so neenerneener" - Can we lynch this guy.

I agree. This is borderline admittance that "Hey, I'm nervous scum that has already said things you should be looking at, why are you suspicious of me over this quote?"

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Zepher

[Smashbard]

Personally if I was PGO I wouldn't claim and I would just try to play so well that the scum HAVE to target me

If that's the case, you're already doing a stellar job my friend. lol.

[Smashbard]

Since our last game together I have a feeling what you're doing here is very similar to how you played before with the whole "I'm so obvtown it hurts" bullshit that you and AngryPidgeon like to throw around. So I think you're town. But even if you're scum your presence is going to make this game a lot more interesting. Good to play with you again.

[Smashbard]

I'm willing to believe the PGO claim for now for specifically the example ActionDan stated. I feel like it'll have to be approached at some point though.

I agree. This is borderline admittance that "Hey, I'm nervous scum that has already said things you should be looking at, why are you suspicious of me over this quote?"

No. I was saying that of all the things you could nitpick at why pick the most easily admissible one?
I love having words shoved into my mouth though. Thanks for that.

May I suggest the gravy or the melted butter to help wash it down?

[Smashbard]

Bacde if you play here like you do on epicmafia all you're going to do is confuse the town and probably get lynched.

And may I ask if you feel Bacde is town or scum?

[Smashbard]

Silly me, I've been referring to Konowa as Kiwoto. How racist of me...

[Smashbard]

One more time, Phil Stein is a damn handsome man. I will not have you say his name in vain.

Unvote. Vote: Zoneace

Everytime I have used the excuse for a lynch on Day 1 that "You are either useless town or scum" I have always been wrong, leading into a mislynch, or scum looking for that very kind of mislynch.

[Smashbard]

hrm, yes, a 5 vote wagon in an 18 player game, he is confirmed town

fucking idiot

Now who shit in this guys cheerios this morning?

[Smashbard]

Well this is getting complicated so I am going to try and be as concise as possible. I warn you, this isn't my strong suit.

2) Yes, you are twisting words. You said I had a town read on Zepher, which I didn't.

He didn't say you had a town read on Mr. Zepher. To be clear, he asked you(kinda paraphrasing) "Do you have a town read on Mr. Zepher, if so, explain?"

This is different than claiming you had a town read on Mr. Zepher. So you in fact, are twisting words.

So just to clarify you are going to ignore my question about MrZepher and just continue to tunnel me for some reason. Got it.

I hardly consider one page of discussion tunneling. You both are overreacting to opposition.

Tell me why I shouldn't believe you are both scum trying to cause confusion by double bussing?

Actually you're just defending your crap partner MrZepher (hence the tunnel) and overreacting a ton and attempting to make a "case" on me which is just blatantly filler and crap.

Do you think Destroyerscum would be defending Mr. Zepher this obviously as a scum partner, when he's not even close to L-1, let alone L-2 or even L-3?

Yes, I did answer your question.

I never said he was town. I said you were scum. That is my answer. What gave you the impression that it might not be?.

You're answering politically by not directly answering the simple question. Do you think Mr. Zepher is town? It's a yes or no question. Not a "I never said Mr. Zepher was town, I said you were scum". That is a dodge. Because you won't just say a simple yes or no on your read of Mr. Zepher.

Unvote. Vote: Human Destroyer

I want an answer to that question. A straight one. Mr. Zepher: Town or scum?

[Smashbard]

It all comes down to this. Go suspects Mr. Zepher of being scummy. Human Destroyer attacks Go for his reasons. I almost said raisins. So let's go with raisins. Human destroyer attacks Go for his raisins, Go and Human Destroyer proceed to misrepresent each others arguments for two pages. Human Destroyer won't answer the question directly as to whether or not he feels Mr. Zepher is scummy, and Go thinks Human Destroyer is tunneling him.

[Smashbard]

It's unclear because you won't just saying "I believe Mr. Zepher is town/scum." You won't even consider stating that he's a null read to you. You have to preface it with "I never said nor do I have a town read on Mr. Zepher". That doesn't tell us how you feel about him at all.

You seem to have difficulties just saying straight up "I have a (Insert Read Here) on Mr. Zepher".

So that makes you look scummy to me because you refuse to commit to a read, making me feel like you are purposefully distancing yourself away from Mr. Zepher.

If you're town all you have is gut right now and a butt load of guess work to go off of so your lack of conviction tells me you know Mr. Zepher's alignment and aren't willing to commit.

Despite all of that though, my vote is purely on you in order to get a straight answer out of you. Because clearly just talking to you isn't going to get you to cooperate with anyone's questions.

I won't make you point out Go's complete lack of answers. Although I haven't caught what you're talking about yet. But I will definitely reread real quick and pose some questions to him if I see what it is that's got you all riled up on him. All I want from you is your read on Mr. Zepher.

[Smashbard]

These are all the questions you have asked him so far.

1) What reason does he have

not

to say that? Why does it necessarily come from a scum mindset?

3) How does that vote even look remotely serious to you? It looks like any other random vote to me. How does his reasoning "reek of bs"?

So far, so good. Here's his initial response.

So just to clarify you are going to ignore my question about MrZepher and just continue to tunnel me for some reason. Got it. I'm the one twisting words?

"How does that even look remotely serious"

- Uhh Zepher made a scummy post and Dram voted him for it. Looked serious. I stated my opinions. You seem to be operating under the assumption that I have to explain everything in detail to you.

Bold emphasis mine. He answered what looks like question #2. But not the following question that I have revised for you:

Why does Mr. Zepher saying that Drams vote on his being expected have to come from a scum mindset?

This is your next couple of questions.

I never said he was town. I said you were scum. That is my answer. What gave you the impression that it might not be?

He hasn't directly answered this question in quotes. But the fact that you guys have been arguing over whether or not you properly answered the question should give you context enough to know he does not feel your answer is satisfactory. I feel the same.

Do you lack reading comprehension or are you scum?

So tell me, how is calling your vote "blatant omgus" a scumtell?

Here are your other two questions. So let's make a quick and convenient list so that nobody has any excuse that questions are not being answered.

Go:

Why does Mr. Zepher saying that Drams vote on his being expected have to come from a scum mindset?

Do you lack reading comprehension or are you scum?

How is calling your vote "blatant omgus" a scumtell?


PEDIT: You finally answered the question as to your read on Mr. Zepher. So ignore anything I say above about you dodging the question.

[Smashbard]

Unvote. Vote: Go

I'd like you to answer the questions one after the other that I reposted for you last page. You can do it in A. B. C. format. 1) 2) 3). You can go quote for quote. I don't care. But after I hounded Destroyer to give me a clear answer I expect you to do the same.

[Smashbard]

Wrong. For your arguments to be valid, they have to be logically sound.

Holding hands isn't my thing. And where have I been illogical?

Unvote. Vote: Go

I'd like you to answer the questions one after the other that I reposted for you last page. You can do it in A. B. C. format. 1) 2) 3). You can go quote for quote. I don't care. But after I hounded Destroyer to give me a clear answer I expect you to do the same.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4692395

See this is why I have a feeling both of you are scum just trying to confuse people into believing you're doing a town vs. town argument. You both have a real strong imperative NOT to just answer straight questions and instead need to create walls and paragraphs to explain your behavior. Or act like your previous posts have already substantially answered questions posed to you, when in fact, those previous answers are obviously insufficient if it takes multiple players rephrasing the question to get you to answer them clearly.

You're either both town or both scum. It's not one or the other.

[Smashbard]

Smash, what dont you get? What about my response dont you understand? Whats "obviously insufficient"? Jesus christ how much hand holding do you need? Also, if you think I'm mafia you're abysmally bad, like just straight up abysmal. When have I ever walled? When have I ever not been succinct? I think you are confusing me with HD.

All I'm giving you is the same amount of scrutiny and holding you to the same standards that I held Human Destroyer during his dodging of questions.

I specifically asked you a series of questions and told you to answer them point for point. You still refuse to do so. Rather, hiding your answers behind blocks of texts rather than being succinct and concise. Hell, the "answer" you directed me to was a block of text that was not clear at all as to why:

You feel like an OMGUS vote is a scumtell.

Doesn't answer the question whether you are scum or lacking in reading comprehension.

The only question you DO answer is why you feel Mr. Zephers expecting of Drams vote against him is scummy in your eyes. But even then your answer only amounts to theorycrafting that isn't substantiated by any examples that you've come across that show that it IS a scumtell. This is where looking into Mr. Zepher and Dramonics META would be good for you.

But you're more content just yelling "SCUM!" over and over again and then instead of answering questions you just call everyone stupid and scummy for not instantly sheeping you. Even going so far as to throw your hands up and refuse to elaborate anymore on your case against Human Destroyer.

The majority of the town have said that they believe you both are just town squabbling. If you are town I'd be taking a step back to consider where I'm going wrong and stop tunneling Human Destroyer. Something you accuse him of doing to you.

[Smashbard]

Smash is town

Things have reached a pretty pass
When someone pretty lower-class
Graceless and vulgar, uninspired
Can be accepted and admired

you two seem to be having a lovely little circle

jerk

today. Following, sheeping, buddying. It's all very adorable.

And giving me bad juju.

Sorry, but you're gonna have to find your own circle jerk buddy this game.

But for serious, here's two things.

1) If you feel like mine or Bacde's actions are suspicious, put a vote down.

Why is our friendliness suspicious enough for you to point out but not suspicious enough for you to want to put a vote on?

2) Also, your suspicions overall are flawed. Because as far as I know I haven't sheeped anyone. I have had my own reasons for every vote I've placed, and I've been very transparent as to my thought process.

Point out how you believe that Bacde or myself are sheeping one another and I'll take your wishy-washiness a little more seriously.

[Smashbard]

I still don't get how people think Go is town.

Can someone please explain it to me?

One of you can't be town while the other is scum, because you're both using the same tactics for answering questions and throwing around accusations. So either that means that you both are exerting town tells or you're both exerting scumtells. I can see why people are leaning more towards town than scum, but I'm still waiting proper answers to your/my questions towards Go before I move away from suspecting either of you.

If he continues to be purposefully obtuse, I'll definitely want him lynched so I can get a better idea on your alignment from his flip.

[Smashbard]

1) If you feel like mine or Bacde's actions are suspicious, put a vote down.

Why is our friendliness suspicious enough for you to point out but not suspicious enough for you to want to put a vote on?

who's your buddy kingdomaces?

This is not helpful, nor is it remotely like scum hunting.

We'd love you to stay, but you'd be in the way, so do up your trousers and go.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bacde

Ha! Shows how much attention I'm paying attention. Touche.

I'd still like an answer to my second question.

[Smashbard]

It took me at least 2-3 posts and a vote to finally get you to say whether or not Mr. Zepher was town or scum, which you answered with null. I don't like that answer but I took it.

And this whole thing started because of your attacking Go's reasons for voting Mr. Zepher in the first place. Which he has misconstrued as you defending Mr. Zepher. And we haven't gotten away from that sense. Hence why I personally believe that you both planned double bussing one another over silly reasons in order to distract everyone.

But once Go answers the damn questions I'll be forced to move on from you guys and just keep in mind that I'll be keeping an eye on your future interactions.

[Smashbard]

Mmm, I was about to attack TheTrollie myself for him having nearly everyone who has posted thus far as a town read. But then with all the guys who were just prodded posting next to nothing of worth makes me less sure.

Purposefully active lurking?

I mean, the game may only be 8 pages long, but surely you guys can come up with SOMETHING substantial out of everything that's happened within them.

Jacob: How about some participation? Any particular scum/town reads at all? Or are you just unvoting to let everyone fight some more so you don't rock the boat?

Roflcopter: How about you read the thread now and decide for yourself why Zoneace is the biggest wagon and whether or not you agree with reasons presented? Nobodies going to spoonfeed cases to you. At least, I hope they wouldn't.

Greygnarl: Are you going to say anything else this game beyond "Wind Up needs to die before Lylo" and "Zoneace is town"? Because your lack of reasons for either position isn't going to convince anybody that you're right.

[Smashbard]

Easily frustrating is the fact that I don't have enough votes to go around right now for all the guys pinging my scumdar.

[Smashbard]

See Rofl, I'll attack people for shitty votes when I see them. Hence why I got involved in the Human Destroy Vs. Go debate. Hence why I jumped in reprimanding all you lurkers for posting fluff just to avoid further prodding with your crappy votes with no stated reasons. My play is consistent, but I like how both you and Greygnarl are now parroting Zoneaces stance that Bacde and I are the most obvious scumteam in the history of ever.

It's like you guys all decided to reveal yourselves as the scumteam at once. Fantastic.

[Smashbard]

Since you guys seem perfectly fine sheeping each other, I'll continue "buddying" Bacde. Ya know, wouldn't want to make your case too hard now.

Vote: Greygnarl

Hey Bacde . I hope you really are town and not just making me look like an ass out here. lol.

[Smashbard]

I bought a skybox. But I pilfered the tickets with a blumpkin and a strong handshake for front row seats. So that would just be plain rude.

I'm really just riding on my gut read that Bacde is town and that his anti-town antics have successfully fished reactions out of the scumteam to reveal themselves on the first truly "easy" wagon to hop on. So I feel Greygnarl and Zoneace are definitely scum together with a strong possibility of Rofl or Go being also apart of the team. But in order to tackle Greygnarl I'm going to have to concede that HD & Go are town vs. towning each other right now.

[Smashbard]

I really don't WANT to lynch Zoneace for purely flavor reasons. I'm enjoying the musical quote gimmick. But Greygnarl is making it really hard to trust Zone. This could be intentional but I really don't want to get into all that WIFOM. Either way, Greys the guy to lynch today.

[Smashbard]

If that statement is an indicator that Greygnarl is town than it means that you're probably scum. Right? Because he says that a certain someone that you were going after knows that you're scum. I'm assuming he's talking about Zoneace. So the only way he could know what Zoneace knows is if both of them are scum and have been communicating.

And the only way he can claim that Zoneace knows your alignment means that he has to in some way, know your alignment or Zoneaces alignment or both. Under that kind of analysis, Grey is scum 100%. And the possibility of both of you being scum goes up substantially. Because Zoneace doesn't even have to be a part of this equation for me to believe that Greygnarl is bussing you.

Where am I going wrong here?

[Smashbard]

Wall of wally wallness

I'm gonna be straight with you, Go. I stopped reading your giant wall of answers after I realized you were doing so kicking and screaming insulting me just because I'm holding you to the same standards I hold everyone else to when it comes to answering my questions.

The majority of the players that have commented on your exchange thus far have said that Human Destroyer looks miles better than you coming out of this exchange, and that if either of you are scum, it's you.

So either everyone in the game that disagrees with you is scum and you're the only town alive, or you need to shut the fuck up and consider the fact that "Gee, maybe I can be wrong sometimes and need to listen as to why people don't agree with me rather than just reverting to childish insults because I don't get my way".

You're so butthurt that Human Destroyer disagreed with your read on Mr. Zepher that you've decided to tunnel him yourself, something you seem to like crying about how much on an injustice it is that HD has been "tunneling" you.

You can continue stamping your feet crying like a little baby that we're all just too stupid to sheep you and that the skill level of the players in this game are all so sub par. Nobodies going to follow you until you get better at convincing people of your cases rather than just trying to bully your way into lynches.

[Smashbard]

My vote remains on Greygnarl for now. I still am holding out that Go is just a town player prone to bitchfits when he doesn't get his way. So nothing is going to be gained from arguing with him anymore. Bacdes random backpedaling off of Greygnarl once that wagon started gaining steam definitely concerns me. Like they were trying to counter buss but Bacde got scared that his buss was going through too fast and didn't mean for it to get that far.

I'm gonna need to reread Mr. Zepher since everyone seems to think he's scum and not a lot of people are elaborating as to why they are voting for him. I know I suspected him at one point but I need to reconsider what's making him so scummy.

[Smashbard]

I was responding more that I was 80% sure Dramonic was going to vote me during RVS because it's Dram and we're friendlies.

Interesting that of all the things I've said so far THAT'S the thing you find suspicious.

He's already explained that he was sure he would get more flack for the "Why so meta?" post than his one, which answers why he would say this. But it still doesn't sit well with me at all. This just doesn't seem like a reaction I would ever say as town.

I feel like KingdomAces vote on Bacde is either a legitimate attempt at pulling us into proper discussion but it's a silly vote for a silly reason
Or it's a blatant attempt at misdirection to draw people away from the Go/HD thing. Which tells me that the Go/HD thing is not a townvstown argument.

I hate wishy washiness. It adds nothing. "He's either doing something town or doing something scum!" Great. That tells us a lot. It's interesting that he posts the fence, but immediately goes for the second side of the fence saying that it tells him that Go Vs. HD is not town vs. town. Which means Mr. Zepher has to believe that Aces is also scum.

I think ZONEACE has a posting restriction.
Or he's being weird. One of the two.

There's literally no way in a Large Normal that somebody can have a posting restriction. So not only is this weird wishy-washiness that doesn't really contribute to scumhunting, it's absolute fluff because it doesn't get anybody any closer to figuring out a read on Zoneace.

NS's meta is the only reason why I don't have a vote on him. He's one of the players that tend to post really scummy even as town and thus is difficult to read.
I will say his votes so far have been... less than appealing... very opportunistic... I'll reexamine my read.

He has yet to reexamine his read on Nobody Special. So once again, he's just kind of poking around suspicions that have no basis and don't really help anybody find scum.

It's like Mr. Zepher is just posting to post, pretending to scumhunt. Definitely pinging my scumdar on that read through.

But I'd like someone to spell out the awkward interactions between Go and Mr. Zepher. Because as far as I know Go is going after Zepher pretty hard. Why would both have to be scum?

[Smashbard]

I'm gonna be straight with you, Go. I stopped reading your giant wall of answers after I realized you were doing so kicking and screaming insulting me just because I'm holding you to the same standards I hold everyone else to when it comes to answering my questions.

Are you fucking serious? You complain about me not answering questions or being clear enough then when I do you cant be assed to read it? You're full of shit.

Vote: Smashbard

Cool story bro. You should be happy. I stopped hounding you to answer my questions because you're just going to throw a temper tantrum the more I try to get you to just answer a question without over explaining yourself with walls. Just consider yourself lucky I just find you sand-in-the-vag town than actual scum at the moment.

[Smashbard]

To anyone too fucking lazy to read a mere 10 pages of the game in order to properly participate:

Replace the fuck out so that somebody who actually will bother to read can participate. I don't have enough votes to go around to lynch all of you for being fucking useless. Thank you for your time.

[Smashbard]

I wouldn't say I'm angry. But here's my frustration.

Every single time I've played a game where there was a guy who didn't bother to read the thread and asked everyone to make their cases for them, I have always blown a gasket and hounded those players for a lynch, and every single time they have come up town.

So it's far more frustrating realizing that all this "Do the scumhunting for me" laziness is probably coming from town who don't give a crap about their win condition. Rather than just being scum trying to active lurk.

If the thread was 20+ pages I wouldn't be so frustrated. But we're talking about 10 pages. It requires less work to read through this thread than to flip through a brochure about Barrow, Alaska. And from my personal experience TELLING me that these guys are town, it really bugs me knowing that almost half a dozen players aren't even bothering to play the game, which makes the scum advantage all the more prevalent. Because if we have a town full of people who can't give two shits to develop their own reads, then the scum can just lead mislynches all day.

I'd rather have involved town that don't know what the fuck they're talking about than nonchalant town who don't bother to try.

[Smashbard]

When it come to Kdowns, this is the second game I've played with him and he basically never posted. He was lynched eventually and was scum. The unfortunate thing about that is that this seems to be his playstyle, or lack-thereof. So I can't in good faith say that for sure he is totally scum this time around too.

I would love nothing more than to start cutting off the dead weight and lynch a few lurkers. But unfortunately that just invites scum to be more active and start controlling the narrative.

[Smashbard]

I don't think so. I've seen you around, but I can't remember us ever playing together.

[Smashbard]

I have a great idea. Let's have everyone who is on the Zepher & Bacde wagons come together and lynch Greygnarl.

[Smashbard]

why do people read this dickhead as town again?

I don't know, I think he's scum. Why don't you tell me why you believe he's scum/a better lynch than Greygnarl?

[Smashbard]

I am being confronted with crippling computer issues. I will try to fix them as soon as I can, in the meantime I apologize for my lack of contribution

And yet you can post and participate in other games. 15 posts in Gay Mafia since Jan 31st.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4685504

Vote: Dramonic

Yeah that is unacceptable. Only scum have to make fake excuses as to why they aren't posting when they are obviously extremely active everywhere else on the internet.

Unvote. Vote: Dramonic

Konowa also looks fairly suspicious for trying to get a free modkill on behalf of Dramonic.

But even with all of that, a Dramonic lynch will do several things.

1) It will pretty much solidify my read on Mr. Zepher due to their early interactions. Which I think will definitely help with other peoples reads as well. Since Mr. Zepher definitely seems to be a point of contention with the town.

2) With reads being more solid on Mr. Zepher, that will also give more context to my reads on half of the players in the game.

Let me explain that one, briefly.

If Dramonic is scum, the chances of Mr. Zepher being scum goes up exponentially, as well as Konowa. Which definitely will make me rethink my scum reads on Go, Zoneace & Greygnarl.

If Dramonic is town, the chances of Mr. Zepher being town also rise, and Konowa will not look so fishy for pointing out a contention with the rules. Which means we can look further into all the guys who've been voting for Mr. Zepher if we can infer that he is town.

I think Dramonic should be today's lynch. Despite his inactivity, his flip gives us a lot more answers than we can currently hope for from any other lynch. Not to mention the fact that most of us seem to be split on wanting to lynch Bacde, Zoneace, Mr. Zepher and a half dozen other one vote wagons.

Of course, if anybody disagrees, please tell me where I'm going wrong here and who you think is a better lynch and why.

[Smashbard]

^I'd be fine with that, but would prefer Go for being obv-scum (i.e. I'll switch to prevent no lynch)

(Should also note he's voting for his supposed "idiot mafia" instead of "obvious mafia", yet wouldn't it make more sense to keep the "idiots" around?)

Unfortunately for both you and Go you are 1vs1ing each other as stating the other is "Obvious Scum". So both of you are too involved in the others lynch to be objectively credible at uniting everyone onto the others lynch.

Go has posted lists of his reads, whether I agree with them or not. What about you?

[Smashbard]

So you guys are cool with Dramonic being caught in a lie and him just ignoring the thread while posting in other games?

Retards. Anyone not voting Dram right now needs to get culled. Even Smash knows whats up.

I've never been a proponent of the lynch all liars policy. But it's pretty damn obvious that if Dram has time to post actively in one game, while discussing OOC about League of Legends, possibly spending time actually playing that game and all at the same time ignoring this thread completely, I call bullshit on the computer problems excuse and think he's just scum who doesn't know what to say.

Biggest objective scumslip of the game in my opinion. He needs to go.

[Smashbard]

Oh and I'm starting to put ZONEACE closer to town because that wagon grew far more quickly than it should have for this early in the day

So based on the first official vote count, does that mean you believe the scum to be Petapan, Jacob, TheTrollie and Bacde?

Because if you believe Zoneace is town solely due to the fact that his wagon rose quickly, that means you are inferring that scum piled on his wagon. Because you wouldn't think Zoneace was town if only town were on the wagon, right?

So tell me what interactions make you believe that any pairing of those 4 are connected, then I'll start believing Greygnarl isn't just randomly defending Zoneace as his scumpartner and that you guy actually make sense.

[Smashbard]

LMAO "I DONT HAVE MANY SOLID READS"
LMAO "SEMI-SOLID"
LMAO @ ALL HIS READS

WHY WONT YOU USELESS HORRIBLES SEE HUMAN DESTROYER IS MAFIA JESUS CHRIST

ITS LIKE IM THE ONLY REAL TOWNIE ASIDE FROM BACDE PLAYING THIS GAME AND THAT IS DEPRESSING AS HELL

I love you too, Go.

[Smashbard]

So far, if Dramonic should flip scum:

Mr. Zepher looks bad.
Konowa looks bad.
Go looks real good.
Most players suspicions of Mr. Zepher look real good. So I won't list all the players beyond that. He'd pretty much be Day 2's lynch guaranteed.

If Dramonic flips town.
Go looks horrible.
I even would look horrible for going along with it.
Suspicions of Greygnarl and Zoneace go through the roof (at least for me)
Mr. Zepher looks good.
Konowa looks good.

Bacde becomes foreign to me. I hate how he's so confident that Greygnarl is reaction fishing even though if Greygnarl was reaction fishing than he would of, you know, actually acted on the reactions he's eliciting.

I still refuse to vote Bacde for reasons based on how annoying he's being to people, because that's just his playstyle that people haven't gotten used to yet and looks like the biggest motivator of peoples votes on him. But if I come to the conclusion that Greygnarl is 100% scum than Bacde is definitely in trouble.

Unless you 100% KNOW the alignment of another player in the game, you can't just go "Oh, I just assume he's reaction fishing, so that excuses all of his scumminess".

[Smashbard]

Oh wait I thought the ZONEACE wagon was bigger than 4

FML

I believe it was all the way up to 5 at one point because I think I was on it at one point. But the vote count was only reflective on recent votes.

[Smashbard]

EBWOP:

Unless you 100% KNOW the alignment of another player in the game, you can't just go "Oh, I just assume he's reaction fishing, so that excuses all of his scumminess, even when he doesn't confirm that he's reaction fishing". That places way too much trust in someone you literally don't know anything about. Unless you're scum.

I feel like these additions are important to include in my original point.

[Smashbard]

He is actively posting in Gay Mafia, all your points are invalid.

Nobody is saying his lynch is inevitable. Dram isn't alone, there are also a bunch of other lurkershits that need prodding. This game is wallowing in innactivity.

He's alone in actively lying.

If he were town he would just replace out at this point. If he HAS to come up with excuses as to why he can't post in this game, so he can free up time to post in other games and forum, then we know he's scum. Because for scum, actively lurking is a valid strategy that prevents them from ever being suspected of scumminess, precisely as to why TheTrollie is freaking out. Because they haven't posted "enough" to be considered scummy.

[Smashbard]

I wasn't reaction testing, I was shitposting.

I love how posts like this and Petapans are just, totally OK with everyone.

May I also lurk throughout this game and post nothing but one liners and actively admit that I am shit posting (Gnarl) and refusing to participate because everyone is so much dumber than me (Peta)? It seems to be a strong indicator of being pro-town and an excellent scumhunter. So I must be playing this game all wrong.

[Smashbard]

Oh, so mad. I've got steam coming out of my ears bro.

[Smashbard]

For what it's worth I like Petapan for the exact same reason I like Bacde. My competitive nature gets me riled up at people who drag their feet or otherwise act like intolerable douchebags, but I'm sure he'd probably be a hoot to talk to outside of mafia.

All of this has absolutely no bearing on his alignment.

But I am considering replacing out due to the tone of this game (that I admit, I have contributed to). It's not so much that I'm getting offended rather than if this is how discussion is going to be directed with everyone telling each other to go fuck themselves I think things may start getting a little too personal even for me.

I haven't reached that point yet, but I would like to politely request that we all try and find a way to communicate that doesn't involve such vitriol.

[Smashbard]

Well you won't get any disagreement from me that Zoneace is scum. But he' not going anywhere so long as Greygnarl defends him. Which is why I was going for Gnarl over Ace earlier because I feel he's the more dangerous of the two scumpartners. Zoneace will eventually lynch himself by annoying too many people. Greygnarl on the other hand is conveniently hiding behind his status as an active lurker.

[Smashbard]

Go home, Zoneace. You're drunk.

[Smashbard]

i dont need to be replaced fruitcake, get that stick out of your ass.
NOW then. posting in a thread im up to date in from a phone takes 2 minutes.
reading 250+ posts, most of which are your walls of dicksizing, on a phone with a 2 inch screen is not something i have any interest in doing.
If you're quite done being a little bitch, ill finish catching up, but before i go:

vote: smashbard

Cute.

How do you feel about Mr. Zepher & Go both saying that I am the most town person in the game? I have a bad feeling in my gut that tells me that they are buddying me. It feels way too weird that they are so sure that I'm town. So since you're vote is one me I feel like you're analysis is the most useful to get an objective read on them.

I'm gonna oppose the Zephyr lynch on the grounds that if he flips scum then people will lynch me.

This is extremely self-serving (and thus scummy).

yeah I'm down for either zepher or dramonic at this point

pretty much both of the big wagons that aren't the bacde-wagon look good to me right now

As is this.

Jesus, where did you people learn to play Mafia??



TheTrollie: I (and many other people, I believe) do not read responses embedded within quotes. Learn to reply properly or GTFO.

This fucking game.


P-Edit: hey dram, stop picking my brain.

Why do you feel like Greygnarl and Bacde, if they were scum, would be so blatantly scummy about it?

[Smashbard]

Smash, to answer your question, I have no idea why they are playing badly enough to be lynched for stupid scumtells.

Everybody's got the right to be happy!

Slightly disappointed by the lack of concern over my recent comments.

This response is relevant to both of you, so I'll just say it under both quotes.

Enough players in this game are purposefully acting so scummy and anti-town, that for this specific situation, it has nullified our ability to call people out on scummy behavior. Greygnarl specifically has admitted that he is shit posting and not even trying anymore. But nobody deems that as scummy behavior. Why?

I'd wager it's because the majority of the players are afraid that he's trying to be too scummy to be scum. Which is really fucking stupid that we allow this to be an excuse to skate through the day, by the way.

But at the very least, this will prove useful Day 2 when we get a chance to actually analyze INTERACTIONS and not just behavior.

Case in point, so long as we are trying to scumhunt in this particular game for individual scummy behavior, we're fucked. We're going to have to revert Day 2 to analyzing night actions, vote count analysis and Day 1 interactions. Because that's our only hope of turning this game around.

@Smash: Not sure what you're asking. I think you're scum, I know for a fact zepher is really bad at mafia so he COULD genuinely see you as town (somehow...), Go I dont really have experience with so it's hard to tell.

My question may have been a little fluffy, but I'll restate it as concise as I can.

What are your reads on Mr. Zepher & Go based on their reads of me? I can't get a clear read on them myself, because I can't tell if they are just scum buddying me, or if they are actually town that gets what I'm trying to say and backs me up because of it.

I obviously can't ask THEM that question, because they will choose the non-buddying answer regardless of alignment. I'm not able to get an objective read myself, because my ego is happy that people actually agree with me for once.

So with your vote being on me, you can objectively see the interactions around me. You may think I'm scummy for my vote on you, but what does that tell you of the people who agree with the reasons behind my vote?

[Smashbard]

TheTrollie: I'll be honest, I refuse to read anything you post as a counter point within quotations. You never did any of that in the Newbie Game we played together and Nachomamma thought you were guaranteed town. This vast change of playstyle makes me feel like you are scum trying to make your counter points as fluffy, hard to read and wordy as possible to make it seem like you are contributing when your scumhunting is a lot worse than it was in the Newbie Game we shared.

When it comes to my "Over explanation of my question" I was trying to be as transparent with Dramonic as possible because his recent posting is satisfying my demand that he remains active and engaged. My vote on him at this point is really only a place marker until I figure out who better deserves my vote. I figure it's prudent to actively engage whoever directly accuses me of scumminess so that I get a better idea of where they are coming from, and possibly be able to show them that their vote is misplaced with my complete transparency.

I think it's better that way, rather than doing what everyone else in the game is doing and just allowing other people to jump to their defense. Hence why I don't trust Zepher & Go backing me up. Nobody should be 100% confident that I am town unless they have a way to know otherwise. I.E. Scum.

[Smashbard]

EBWOP: I refuse to read anything you post as a counter point within quotations that you have quoted. Aint nobody got time for that.

[Smashbard]

I'll take stubbornly dumb. That's a lot better than the words I can think of for half the players in this game thus far.

[Smashbard]

Unvote.

Consider me confused. The only case I really had on Dramonic was that he was lying about crippling computer issues as an excuse to not have to contribute. Since he's started posting on his phone I haven't seen anything scummy that he's done beyond his blatant OMGUS of my vote on him.

Are there other reasons someone can paraphrase for me as to why he's obviously scum?

[Smashbard]

Yeah I'm gonna go with Greygnarl til end of day phase. It's obvious at this point that we are too divided over 33% of the town wanting Dramonic, 33% of the town wanting Zepher and 33% of the town wanting Zoneace/Some other stupid lynch target.

So I'm gonna be in the latter 33%. Because I don't have strong scumreads on Zepher or Dramonic at the moment. But Grey has to go if we are ever going to get this game on track towards serious scumhunting.

Vote: Greygnarl

[Smashbard]

Greygnarl has been defending Zoneace from the very beginning for literally no reason whatsoever (Unless they are scum of course). So if Greygnarl gets lynched and flips scum Zoneace can be lynched tomorrow freely for his confirmed scumminess. Just sayin'.

[Smashbard]

I don't think Zoneace is scum at the moment. Although Bacde has a good point that Zoneace is ignoring all the points brought against him from everyone's dickwagging before and thinking him being suspect is based solely out of weirdness.

Zoneace had once voted for Bacde saying he doesn't care if Bacde is town or scum, he's a distraction and needs to go. Which Bacde is speculating is scum motivation because he's not trying to lynch someone for being scummy, but just for being annoying.

MY reasons for the possibility of Zoneace being scum is only if Greygnarl flips scum.

Because Greygnarl has defended Zoneace since his very first post. So if Greygnarl flips scum it would be logical to believe that Zoneace is one of his scumpartners. This read would be completely independent of Zoneaces actions, because like I mentioned, everyone has acted so scummy this game that it' nearly pointless to try and draw individual scumtells. We have to look at INTERACTIONS. And Greygnarls flip will certainly confirm (at least in my mind) whether or not Zoneace is town or scum.

[Smashbard]

I don't think a greygnarl flip of either alignment would confirm ZONEACE as either alignment

they are just points to consider if we get there

hell, as scum I often just defend a few townies which greygnarl could certainly be doing w/ ZONEACE

So why do you support my lynch of Greygnarl? Considering one could argue that I don't care if Grey flips town or scum, I just want him gone for the sake of cutting off dead weight. How is that different than Zoneaces vote of you several pages ago?

[Smashbard]

Its weird to me that you don't perceive a difference in your vote for greygnarl and ZONEACE's early vote for me today

Ah but there's a difference. I said the argument could be MADE, not that I believe in said argument. I fully believe Greygnarl to be scum. Granted it's based all on gut. But that's all I got right now. Since nobody has any better cases until Day 2, I think I'm set til deadline.

[Smashbard]

Can someone just make a Meme that has someone facepalming with the caption "This Fucking Game" so we can just attach that to our Avatar image or Signature to get our point across rather than having to see every fucking post say the same stupid thing.

We get it. The game is stupid. Everyone participating is stupid because they don't agree with you. Get over it.

[Smashbard]

I'm going to double the sentiment to ISO ActionDan & Nobody Special together.

Unvote. Vote: Nobody Special

I'm convinced. Moreso than my gutread on Greygnarl anyway. I mean, if you (guys collectively) have to scratch and claw your ways into justifications as to why you want to lynch Greygnarl just for the sake of getting a wagon with some steam on it to go through, then obviously we are lynching Greygnarl for all the wrong reasons.

I still believe he's scum. But ActionDan's case is TONS better. Check it out.

[Smashbard]

We have two days to make a choice. I'd rather lynch Greygnarl but ActionDans case makes more sense than anything I have to say. I hate having to backtrack like this, but I should have noticed this a lot earlier in the first place.

[Smashbard]

My only issue with the Greygnarl lynch is the fact that so many people are going "I think he's town, but I'm gonna vote him anyway" or announcing intent to jump on him only if we get close to the days end. And that just doesn't sit right with me. I want Greygnarl to be lynched because he is considered scummy, not because people are just shrugging their shoulders going "Oh well, let's pick somebody". That's not very town at all.

[Smashbard]

So let's double check shall we?

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.


We have less than 48 hours until the end of day phase. Three of you four need to drop your case for the rest of the day phase and compromise, coming back at it tomorrow if you're still sure. Because at this point you're causing a divide that is making it literally impossible for us to focus on one wagon for the sake of getting a lynch through.

I'd say let's draw straws and agree on one of those 4 lynches, but honestly the Bacde wagon is really dumb and has been since the start of the Day.

So really, we just need to agree on whether or not Zepher, Nobody Special or Dramonic need to go. And we need to decide that like, yesterday.

Unless everyone is cool with a No Lynch. Which is where we are heading.

I did an elimination round in my head of "Eenie, Meanie, Mynie, Mo." and knocked off Zepher first, and then Dramonic. So let's lynch Nobody Special and explore the other two guy tomorrow.

[Smashbard]

Of those four, I am equally inclined to Bacde, dram or Zepher.

I do not want to lynch Nobody Special for obvious reasons (not the least of which is that I am town -- actually a town player that would be detrimental to the town to lose, so please, factor that in).

So we can chalk up Bacde and Nobody Specials positions as "I will lynch any of the popular suspects not named me."

Great. Totally gives us a good idea on who you think is the best lynch./sarcasm.

[Smashbard]

Considering you've been hardcore tunneling Bacde ever since he called you scummy, yeah, your wagon is crap. Get over it and move your vote, Zoneace. I honestly don't care where, so long as it's someone who is actually GOING to be lynched today. Nobodies lynching Bacde, and it' incredibly anti-town of you to continue pushing it when you have crap for evidence based on the butthurt of "Sniffle sniffle, he called me scum!".

Now look at Wind-Up, that's how you convince a guy to switch a vote.

Unvote. Vote: Dramonic

Yay wagon hopping!

[Smashbard]

I dont usually get this... Hominemy in a game, but for fuck's sake, every post wind-up makes is a steaming pile of shit and it's getting ridiculous. Everyone who disagrees with this lynch is my buddy guys, better hop on before it's too late!

So far the extent of you calling everyone idiots and attacking them has been reserved for only people who suspect you of scumminess. Unfortunately for you this is a tactic both town and scum use. So it doesn't help you any to verbally assault anyone who dares to point a finger at you.

[Smashbard]

Damnit damnit damnit. We are less than 24 hours away from deadline. Fuck it, it looks like things are heading towards Greygarl so I'm going back to that. I'd rather lynch a guy I'm not 100% comfortable with than risk a no lynch.

Unvote. Vote: Greygnarl

[Smashbard]

Whether it was a bad move or not, lynching is crucial to us being able to gather information. Through vote count and wagon analysis of the previous day. I would rather mislynch than no-lynch. Because then we are left with the exact same amount of information that we had Day 1, because night kill speculation is too easily dismissed as WIFOM and thus is not as useful as being able to solidify reads based on who was and wasn't on Greygnarl throughout the previous day.

All I know for sure is that his flip will solidify my read on Zoneace. Because whatever alignment Greygnarl is, I'm positive Zoneace shares it. That was really Greygnarls only useful contribution was his hardline anti-wind up and pro-zoneace stances.

[Smashbard]

Whether it was a bad move or not, lynching is crucial to us being able to gather information. Through vote count and wagon analysis of the previous day. I would rather mislynch than no-lynch. Because then we are left with the exact same amount of information that we had Day 1, because night kill speculation is too easily dismissed as WIFOM and thus is not as useful as being able to solidify reads based on who was and wasn't on Greygnarl throughout the previous day.

All I know for sure is that his flip will solidify my read on Zoneace. Because whatever alignment Greygnarl is, I'm positive Zoneace shares it. That was really Greygnarls only useful contribution was his hardline anti-wind up and pro-zoneace stances.

This post, like most of yours (and bacde's) is fucking terrible.

Says the person who's contributed exactly zero scumhunting effort all game. I'm hurt, really. Your sheer amount of credibility on the subject of terrible posts makes me ashamed of myself for making such a bad post.

I mean, after all, you would be the best judge on what makes a fucking terrible post. You've been playing like shit all game.

zepher and smash are actually the best vig targets. if zepher flips scum human destroyer dies next.

I fully expect to be dead by tonight anyway. It's ok, I've already laid out a contingency plan in case that should happen that'll give you guys a useful weapon after my departure.

[Smashbard]

Mr. Zepher was TheTrollies one and only true scum read the entire game. Zoneace is town due to Greygnarls flip. I'll have to do a little more actual analysis on vote counts and Zephers ISO yesterday to see what information I can gather from Zephers reads. But yes, I agree with Rofl & Jacob. Zepher is todays lynch.

Vote: Mr. Zepher

[Smashbard]

Woah that escalated quickly

I killed Trollie based on an argument that I already answered for? If I recall he never responded to it either (could be wrong, haven't checked to be sure).
Like I know I'm not the towniest looking person but wtf. Use brain.
I seriously would have picked Rofl over Trollie in a heartbeat if I were scum and were picking off people who were suspicious of me (which is like, half the town mind).

Who said you killed Trollie? Depending on how many scumpartners you have, any one of you could of been the killer.

Your explanation as to why you wouldn't of killed Trollie anyway is purely WIFOM. And not the good kind of WIFOM that actually makes people think. Just the "Take my word for it" kind of WIFOM, which is never town.

Do you even have a counter wagon to suggest? Any case developed as to why you believe so and so is scum?

[Smashbard]

I'm voting Zepher until I get done with more in depth analysis on what happened yesterday. I'm going to keep on posting that reminder every post I make to eventually force myself to complete that analysis of Zephers reads.

But I am liking the Konowa, Wind Up, Go wagon of Dramonic better than Zepher. If only because I have town reads on Konowa and Wind Up. While I don't have town reads on Jacob & Nobody Special.

[Smashbard]

I'm voting Zepher until I get done with more in depth analysis on what happened yesterday. I'm going to keep on posting that reminder every post I make to eventually force myself to complete that analysis of Zephers reads.

But I am liking the Konowa, Wind Up, Go wagon of Dramonic better than Zepher. If only because I have town reads on Konowa and Wind Up. While I don't have town reads on Jacob & Nobody Special.

Except dramonic is town

Like seriously the whole idea of a dramonic wagon is a pile of shit

Ssh, I'm hunting the scums. Let's not kill the wagon before reactions can be tested first.

Oh fuck it. Since I have to bother to mention it in the first place it's ruined.

Dramonic wagon is shit and way too conveniently brought up in the nick of time to counter Zephers wagon which makes my reads on Konowa, Go & Wind Up go way into scum territory as they are purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation.

Especially Konowa being like one post "Hey let's slow down a bit and think about some things" and the second Go votes for Dramonic then Konowa just jumps right on the wagon with no explanation. Wind Up is the one that shocks me. But maybe people were right about him fake claiming PGO. None of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher. It's just a blatant counter wagon built to sew confusion and distrust, and it reaks of scum.

[Smashbard]

Scum can't be this obvious, can they? Christ almighty.

I dunno man, yourself, Konowa and Go pretty much just outed yourselves irregardless of Zephers alignment, because you could be coming to his defense or just trying to spread confusion with another situation of "Gee there's just so many scummy suspects, we can't compromise until we are a day away from deadline guys!".

So you tell me how easy this is? Your team seriously couldn't like, wait a few days in between your Dramonic hopping to make it so obvious you're all in this together?

TheTrollie said Dramonic was a horrible lynch, you killed him to silence his dissent, right? Right. Now shut up and buss your partner so we can move this along.

[Smashbard]

<snip>

Ssh, I'm hunting the scums. Let's not kill the wagon before reactions can be tested first.

Oh fuck it. Since I have to bother to mention it in the first place it's ruined.

Dramonic wagon is shit and way too conveniently brought up in the nick of time to counter Zephers wagon which makes my reads on Konowa, Go & Wind Up go way into scum territory as they are purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation.

Especially Konowa being like one post "Hey let's slow down a bit and think about some things" and the second Go votes for Dramonic then Konowa just jumps right on the wagon with no explanation. Wind Up is the one that shocks me. But maybe people were right about him fake claiming PGO. None of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher. It's just a blatant counter wagon built to sew confusion and distrust, and it reaks of scum.

Spoiler: post #561 from Smashbard

So let's double check shall we?

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.


We have less than 48 hours until the end of day phase. Three of you four need to drop your case for the rest of the day phase and compromise, coming back at it tomorrow if you're still sure. Because at this point you're causing a divide that is making it literally impossible for us to focus on one wagon for the sake of getting a lynch through.

I'd say let's draw straws and agree on one of those 4 lynches, but honestly the Bacde wagon is really dumb and has been since the start of the Day.

Spoiler: my post #567

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

ActionDan's case on Nobody Special is bad. You read it and you think: okay, if NS is town, these quotes show that he is not being a very good townie. Then you think: wait, but does that mean NS is scum? And then you think: do these reasons ('bad vote' x2, 'laziness', 'irrelevance') sound like reasons scum would use in a case to fake scumhunting? And then you think: yes. ActionDan is probably scum with dramonic, look at his poor dismissal of the dramonic wagon:

I believe that Dram is a sub-optimal lynch. I don't think I'll support it.

(i.e. I don't want to lynch my buddy Day 1. I'm not going to vote for him.)

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

That's right, folks! dramonic has been effectively useless for most of the day, and occasionally he comes in and snipes at people because they're not being pro-town. No actual scumhunting or anything. Plus his own logic incriminates himself as I showed above. If you can't find a flaw in my logic, you should probably strongly consider voting dramonic.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

These are silly lynches. roflcopter's #272 and #274 show he's steeped in confirmation bias (misreading MrZepher's silly flavour as trying to start a flame war). Steer well clear of that one.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #569

Now look at Wind-Up, that's how you convince a guy to switch a vote.

Unvote. Vote: Dramonic

Yay wagon hopping!

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #585

I dont usually get this... Hominemy in a game, but for fuck's sake, every post wind-up makes is a steaming pile of shit and it's getting ridiculous. Everyone who disagrees with this lynch is my buddy guys, better hop on before it's too late!

So far the extent of you calling everyone idiots and attacking them has been reserved for only people who suspect you of scumminess. Unfortunately for you this is a tactic both town and scum use. So it doesn't help you any to verbally assault anyone who dares to point a finger at you.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #595

Damnit damnit damnit. We are less than 24 hours away from deadline. Fuck it, it looks like things are heading towards Greygarl so I'm going back to that. I'd rather lynch a guy I'm not 100% comfortable with than risk a no lynch.

Unvote. Vote: Greygnarl

In #561 you call the Bacde wagon but not the dramonic wagon shit.

In #569 you vote dramonic in response to my post #567.

In #585 you attack dramonic for behaving anti-town.

In #595 you compromise on a Greygnarl lynch, expressing disappointment and suggesting that dramonic had a greater chance of flipping scum.

You were clearly not reaction testing because there was

under 48 hours to deadline, and because you actually vote for and attack dramonic.

Your explanation that Konowa, Go, and myself are scum because we're 'purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation' is

not valid considering that's what happens in basically 100% of Mafia games.

Your statement that 'none of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher' is

clearly contradicted by your response in #569 to my post in #567

, and to a lesser degree by your attack on dramonic for being anti-town in #585.

Explain.

I was not reaction testing you on Day 1. I had town reads on you at that time. I was trying to reaction test you today because I wanted to see what you would of done with me blatantly buddying you, Go and Konowa while not actually moving over to the Dramonic wagon. Seeing whether or not you were going to try to jump my bones for "fence sitting" or if you would of just ignored me because I called you town.

Jumping my bones would of developed a town read from you because town shouldn't be so quick to accept other people calling them town without supporting evidence, which would of also gotten you guys off the crappy ass Dram Wagon since he's done nothing worse than Mr. Zepher to warrant a lynch. A win-win in my book.

But ignoring me would of further solidified my scum reads on you for getting on the Dram Wagon in the first place because you would of been playing it safe and not bother to question why I thought you were town without joining your wagon.

I had to break the reaction test because if the Dram wagon was broken down from other players arguments too quickly I wouldn't of had a chance to solidify my read on you, Konowa and Go. Because your votes would of been swayed by peer pressure more than your reactions to my statements. Hence, reaction testing.

[Smashbard]

Lynchers and Lynchees are strictly non-normal. Thus probably would not be allowed in this set up.

[Smashbard]

If it comes to considering an ActionDan lynch, I would rather lynch Nobody Special and then lynch ActionDan if he's wrong about NS so that there is actually a reason to lynch Dan beyond "He's tunneling a player".

[Smashbard]

^for that lazy, lazy misrep of the case previously laid out on action dan, and for lining up mislynches

The only way I could be lining up mislynches is if I was aware of how people would flip. You seem pretty jumpy at the idea of me wanting to lynch Nobody Special and then Action Dan if NS flips wrong.

Do you know that either of those guys would flip town? Because that's the only way you could know that either lynch would be a mislynch.

[Smashbard]

Also while I'm at it, please tell me where this Actiondan case is. As far as I know he's been virtually ignored all game as "That crazy guy who wants Nobody Special lynched and nobody else".

So as far as I know, the only case IS that ActionDan is tunneling Nobody Special. If you've got something else, point it out. Because I never remember ActionDan even being on the chopping block.


PEDIT: That's my point. The only way you could know that lynching Nobody Special first and then ActionDan if NS flips town would be a bad idea/setting up mislynches is if you KNOW Nobody Special would flip town.

Only scum should know Nobody Specials alignment. See what I'm driving at here? You're in deep shit if you can't explain yourself, Rofl.

[Smashbard]

Also while I'm at it, please tell me where this Actiondan case is. As far as I know he's been virtually ignored all game as "That crazy guy who wants Nobody Special lynched and nobody else".

So as far as I know, the only case IS that ActionDan is tunneling Nobody Special. If you've got something else, point it out. Because I never remember ActionDan even being on the chopping block.


PEDIT: That's my point. The only way you could know that lynching Nobody Special first and then ActionDan if NS flips town would be a bad idea/setting up mislynches is if you KNOW Nobody Special would flip town.

Only scum should know Nobody Specials alignment. See what I'm driving at here? You're in deep shit if you can't explain yourself, Rofl.

[Smashbard]

lol. You guys are making this really hard on me.

I can't possibly believe that Go, Konowa, Wind Up, Nobody Special. Roflcopter and Mr. Zepher are all scum. Maybe 3 or 4 out of 6, but two of you are just being misguided. Show of hands on which of you wants to admit to being the miguided town rather than obvscum?

I'll wait.

[Smashbard]

rofl: Do you think I'm town? If so, why?

If it makes your vote any easier, I think you're scum. I'm just giving you a pass because you don't really have as many partner connections I can draw on as easily as my other 5 suspects.

[Smashbard]

Actually the change between 637 and 643 with the accusatory language of considering only me!scum while not trying to figure out my intent or motivation is pretty bad. I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if you are bad Town or Scum, Smash.

rofl is right though, lining up mislynches is pretty scummy. Saying that I'll lynch X and then Y independent of each others alignment is not Town. Then the only reason I see for a scum read on a number of the people you listed is because they are anti-your-views. Sadly, this is not indicative of alignment. The "Teollie was killed so he wouldn't be able to stop a Dramonic push" is awful.

dramonic's D1 was pretty self-serving and safe to me. His early D2 play hasn't screamed Town either. I'm happy with my vote for now. I'll have to go back and see what is what in this mess.

Once again, the only way you can say I'm setting up mislynches is if you know Nobody Specials alignment. Even then, saying that I want to lynch them both independently of one another is a blatant misrep. Because any chance of me wanting to lynch ActionDan is completely DEPENDENT on Nobody Specials alignment.

Same way I confirmed Zoneace in my mind through Greygnarls flip. My logic is consistent with my play. Call me bad town all you want. I know what I'm trying to do here.

[Smashbard]

I called Go, Konowa & Wind Up as scummy before they started attacking me, for anyone paying attention. Their reactions to me are indicative of their own alignment. Not the other way around. So also trying to misrep me into saying I only find you guys scummy because you disagree with me is scummy as hell. Because until today Go was a town read for me. We agreed on a lot of lynch targets yesterday.

[Smashbard]

Just so I understand you correctly, you are saying that you'd lynch NS and if he flips Town you'd lynch ActionDan?

Dude, you called me Town in 637.

I'm not voting Smash, he's Town. Bad, but Town.

I'm gonna try to break this down as best as I can.

1) ActionDan thinks Nobody Special is scum. He's been stuck on that all game, and isn't really interested in participating in any scumhunting not related to Nobody Special.

2) Therefore, if we hypothetically lynch Nobody Special, and he should turn up town, I would want to lynch ActionDan. But if he turned up scum, then ActionDan would be confirmed town.

3) On the other hand, lynching ActionDan first doesn't get me the same result unless ActionDan is scum. And I will need something more than "He thinks Nobody Special is scum" for me to be convinced of that aligment.

I'm voting Zepher until I get done with more in depth analysis on what happened yesterday. I'm going to keep on posting that reminder every post I make to eventually force myself to complete that analysis of Zephers reads.

But I am liking the Konowa, Wind Up, Go wagon of Dramonic better than Zepher.

If only because I have town reads on Konowa and Wind Up.

While I don't have town reads on Jacob & Nobody Special.

That was a reaction test. I've covered this but I'll go over it again.

I didn't like the way it smelt that you three hopped on the Dram Wagon directly counter to the Zepher wagon without posting anything to the effect of "Zepher lynch is bad, Dram is better, he's why".

So I reaction tested you guys by calling you all town, but not jumping on the same wagon.

1) If you would of reacted in a way that was suspicious of me, you would be town reads, because no town person should just accept that a random stranger has a town read on them without good reason. Especially one that doesn't join in the same wagon because it would be seen by scumhunters paying attention as "fence sitting".

2) If you would of ignored me and continued on your Dram Wagon instead of jumping on me, pretending as if I never said anything, then you would be even scummier to me. Because scum aren't going to call into question a town read on them, they'll just be glad to have an ally.

rofl, why is Dramonic Town? What am I not seeing?

My only case on the Dram Wagon was that he was active lurking and making excuses as to why he couldn't post. Once he started posting from his cell phone those reasons were made moot. So far, nobody has a real convincing reason why Dram is better than Zepher for a lynch. So he's not so much "town" as he is "Someone that there is no case against that makes sense, so you can't be sure he's scum".

[Smashbard]

Sadly the reaction test failed so I can't say for sure that Rofl, Konowa and Wind Ups questions on me are motivated in any way.

I want to believe Wind Up is town because of the PGO claim, which would make him a very good ally on the town side by forcing scum to play around his role.

I want to believe that Konowa is town because he's actually trying to understand what I'm trying to say. Which I don't think scum would be very interested in.

But I just can't be sure right now. I'd rather we just lynch Zepher and I can worry about which of you guys are his scumpartners later.

[Smashbard]

How about you tell me how I'm WRONG in my analysis than just calling me stupid? Because it makes perfect sense to me, and I don't feel like an idiot explaining it to you. So if my logic is flawed how about you be team player and point out to me how?

[Smashbard]

Of course it's possible. But is it possible for town to be so invested in another persons lynch that they refuse to participate in the game until said person is lynched while also being wrong?

I suppose a meta call would be good here, to see if ActionDan is prone to this kind of behavior as town. If not, then his case against Nobody Special falls flat on it's face and makes Dan look very scummy.

I'll do some digging. Still need to do that vote count analysis of Mr. Zepher.

[Smashbard]

2) Therefore, if we hypothetically lynch Nobody Special, and he should turn up town, I would want to lynch ActionDan. But if he turned up scum, then ActionDan would be confirmed town.

Unless there's more than one scumteam.

Unless you actually have reason to believe that this is the case, then forgive me if I completely ignore your theory.

Otherwise the only explanation is you are Mafia, you know that your faction didn't get your targeted kill off last night, but a kill went off anyway therefore you believe there is a second mafia.

[Smashbard]

^^Nah, I caught that too. He totally scumclaimed, but it seemed so

deliberate

that I can't in good faith call it a slip and vote for him.

I can.

Unvote. Vote: Nobody Special

Thanks for catching that, Aces!

[Smashbard]

@Smashbard are you forgetting about 1393?

Remember how slaandar and denisatp

HARD

-bussed Thor on d1? And got him lynched?

Yeah, pushing someone and having them flip maf doesn't make you confirmed town

Can you tell me what it is you're afraid of?
Can you tell me why I'm afraid it's me?

kinda like how you're about to hard bus smash after he threw out that awful NS vote?

You've been tunneling me since the end of Day 1, despite the fact that I've already breadcrumbed my role to you. So forgive me if I don't give two shits what you have to say. KK?

To everyone else: Until one of you actually starts explaining how things are bad rather than durdling around just calling moves bad with no explanation, you can shut the fuck up. KKK?

Nobody Special wouldn't be bringing up the idea that we somehow have a multi-ball set up unless he KNOWS a kill didn't go through last night. There is literally no other way he can be so comfortable bringing it up.

I'll let that sink in a little bit.

You guys are obviously too satisfied with dick waving about who has the best lynch target without even bothering to ask why people disagree with you, so you haven't learned ANYTHING from our mistakes Day 1. I'm tired of trying to herd cats.

Lynch Nobody Special, and let's get this game on the road. Or not, it's cool by me.

[Smashbard]

I'm wondering about my townread on smash...

I read your play in your first newbie game dude, I know that you play the whole "earnest town with bad reasons for voting" bit really well

Except you forget that in both of my games as scum I am very hesitant to vote, post a lot of wishy washy WIFOM analysis and don't really push anybody to do anything because I'm too scared of getting lynched and go into ultra survival mode with everything I do. That's where I play the dumb townie bit a lot where I act like I don't know what' going on and hope I get sympathy points from veterans and they can't lynch me in good faith because I'm just a newbie.

As town, I get increasingly frustrated when people I think are scum are not lynched, and depressed when I am constantly wrong. I vote hop a lot because I DON'T know who's town and thus am very itchy with the trigger finger so to speak. I'm also more prone to crazy ass gambits like the one I'm pulling right now when I get desperate and I feel like by sacrificing myself I can do the town some good. It also relieves the stress of having to herd cats if I can get myself lynched and just sit on the side lines the rest of the game rather than pull my hair out because things aren't going my way.

@Smashbard are you forgetting about 1393?

Remember how slaandar and denisatp

HARD

-bussed Thor on d1? And got him lynched?

Yeah, pushing someone and having them flip maf doesn't make you confirmed town

What are you referencing in this game that is relevant to that situation with Thor?

[Smashbard]

Ah. Yes. I can see what you're driving at there. From the post game comments it seemed like that was all Thors idea though, which was pretty unconventional.

Do you have reason to believe that AD is scum regardless of NS's flip?

[Smashbard]

I'll concede that it wouldn't confirm him, but I would be paying a lot more attention to what AD had to say when it comes to other opinions on who could be scum if he was right about NS.

[Smashbard]

So literally everyone that the majority of sensible players agree are town, plus Savage and Dramonic?

You're really good at this! G'jawb!

[Smashbard]

unvote, vote: zepher

i'm willing to listen to konowa on smashbard just being really out of touch town.... but seriously, lrn 2 mafia bro

dram is town because of the way the wagon(s) on him happened

I'll "Learn to mafia" as soon as you guys get your reasons straight as to why I'm wrong. Jumping up and down and holding your ears going "Lalala you're so wrong and dumb! Lalala!!!!" doesn't mean I'm playing the game wrong. It means you don't know what you're talking about and can't put it into words how my reasoning is wrong.

Seriously, Bacde and Wind Up are the only guys who have even remotely attempted to tell me how I have been wrong in my reasons. And even Wind Up not really. More like "In experience you'll see this is rarely the case" which doesn't tell me how it's wrong either.

You guys just keep plugging your ears and pretending I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'll just keep playing how I play. Because if I was truly wrong it wouldn't be hard for someone to tell me how.

[Smashbard]

Strong > Weak

And only the townreads? Not the scum reads?

Didn't I see this movie, with McMurphy and the nurse?
That hospital was heavy, but this cuckoo's nest is worse.
Isn't this the one where in the end the good guys fry?
Didn't I see this movie, and didn't I cry?
Didn't I cry?

I'm fairly neutral on the scum reads, Obviously your read on me is a massive failure, and I expressed yesterday how terrible an idea I thought a dram lynch was.

But, Smash and Bac being 2 and 3 on your town list is unacceptable.

The fact that you are STILL tunneling me because you're too damn butt hurt that for one second I thought you were scum tells me you're the one with massive failures for reads.

I can't vouche for Bacde anymore. His Day 1 play was very much Town Bacde from what I've read on his meta. But he usually pursues lynches a lot harder than he is now. Almost everything Bacde has said today is just skating through the day. "This guy here looks scummy, but I won't vote him". and "I'd lynch these guys, but I'm not voting them now." Both seem like positions cautious scum would take, and not the bold careless Bacde I knew from our previous game together.

[Smashbard]

Why aren't more people voting for/discussingZepher?

I seriously had to ISO myself to remember who I was voting for BUT MY FOCUS IS BACK

Until people get off the dumb Dramonic wagon, I don't expect the Zepher wagon to get any traction. The funny thing is, nobody can explain why Zepher is town. And nobody but ActionDan has really presented any reasons to vote anybody else besides Nobody Special.

I feel like Nobody Specials Multi-Ball slips are indicative of scum. And I don't feel like herding cats anymore to convince people that Zepher is scum. Everytime I play the role of town leader I get frustrated and angry at the lack of traction my words receive. So I'm following ActionDan on this one.


Fucking Bacde. Everytime I start to think you might be scum you come right back around to my town pile. Let's never fight again.

[Smashbard]

Strong > Weak

And only the townreads? Not the scum reads?

Didn't I see this movie, with McMurphy and the nurse?
That hospital was heavy, but this cuckoo's nest is worse.
Isn't this the one where in the end the good guys fry?
Didn't I see this movie, and didn't I cry?
Didn't I cry?

I'm fairly neutral on the scum reads, Obviously your read on me is a massive failure, and I expressed yesterday how terrible an idea I thought a dram lynch was.

But, Smash and Bac being 2 and 3 on your town list is unacceptable.

The fact that you are STILL tunneling me because you're too damn butt hurt that for one second I thought you were scum tells me you're the one with massive failures for reads.

I can't vouche for Bacde anymore. His Day 1 play was very much Town Bacde from what I've read on his meta. But he usually pursues lynches a lot harder than he is now. Almost everything Bacde has said today is just skating through the day. "This guy here looks scummy, but I won't vote him". and "I'd lynch these guys, but I'm not voting them now." Both seem like positions cautious scum would take, and not the bold careless Bacde I knew from our previous game together.

To claim I am tunneling you, smash, is highly disingenuous and a total misrep (now, at least the second time you've misrepped me). I have yet to vote for you in this game. In fact, IF I could be accused of tunneling anyone it would be Bac and I don't feel I'm "tunneling" him. I just feel very strongly that he is scum and have chosen not to (unless absolutely necessary or in the case of a major slip by someone) put my vote anywhere else but on him.

I'm not misrepping you. You've been calling me scum and attacking people for their town read of me ever since the middle of Day 1. You're too emotionally invested in getting revenge against Bacde and I calling you scummy that you can't step back and think objectively.


You can't be scum, because Greygnarl defended you to the death and turned up town. So I refuse to believe that you're scum. But you're being extremely moronic by being so fucking stuck on voting Bacde and attacking anyone who thinks I'm town that you have ceased to be a useful member of the town.

If you have a case, fucking present it in it's entirety and try to convince us that Bacde is scum. If all you're going to do is bitch and cry all day about how Scummy Bacde is without even trying then please, for my sake, just continue to post nothing but flavorful spam that ties into the musical we're watching during the day phase. Because that's all you're good for at this point.

[Smashbard]

EBWOP: Because that's all your good for at this point, and I won't be trying to lynch you just purely out of my town read of you and the fact that without you, we have nobody engaging the flavor, and that's boring.

[Smashbard]

Your reading skills may have failed you, but I have presented my reasons for suspecting both of you already. Feel free to ISO me if you've missed it.

That's not good enough. Your case is 20 pages old, and has failed to convince ANYONE that Bacde is scum. If you have absolutely nothing else to bring to the table then welcome to the top of my scum list until you straighten up your very anti-town, very distracting play. Even ActionDan is able to gather up more evidence towards his Nobody Special lynch. Whether everyone agrees with him or not.

You are town to me due to Greygnarls flip and nothing else. The second you prove to be so useless that even a dead townies read on you becomes less convincing then I WILL advocate your lynch if you refuse to participate in scumhunting. I don't even care if you stick to Bacde, just fucking scumhunt him and point out how he is scummy. If you refuse to do that, you're fucking useless and will be on my ignore list and/or lynched.

You have been warned.

[Smashbard]

Wow...you're really fucking stupid.

I never said you were scum. I'm not concerned with your vote on Bacde, I'm concerned with your complete lack of TRYING to convince us why he is scum.

I have come around more than twice so far this game on possibly thinking Bacde was scum. These would of been golden opportunities for you to present new evidence and put me over the edge on joining you on a Bacde vote.

But you're so irrevocably, irreversible mentally retarded that you can't even RESTATE WHY YOU THINK SOMEONE IS SCUM IN A SINGLE SENTENCE!

Welcome to my ignore list. You officially cease to exist in this game until someone notifies me that you've said something that is actually worth reading that doesn't cause my head to hurt with how unbelievably stupid you are.

[Smashbard]

Apparently my putting you on ignore has not prevented me from reading your dribble. So I did the responsible thing and read your post anyway. You're welcome.

I'm only going to say this once, and I refuse to elaborate on this anymore. So you'll have to lynch me to get anymore info out of me.

I have posted a code throughout my first 11-12 posts that reveal very important game related information that in case I should die, would help confirm a townie.

I am not mentioning who or how. You'll just have to figure it out. If you can't discern how this information makes it absolutely impossible that I am scum, then you are well and truly hopeless. And I can continue the rest of this game willfully ignoring you for your tunneling idiocy.

[Smashbard]

Zoneace, do you have any reads not involving Bacde/Smash?

I echo this question. Considering all Zoneace has done outside of his interactions with Bacde is attack other people for their reads, I expect Zoneace to post a full list of everyone in the game and his reads on each.

[Smashbard]

Waiting.

Feel free to participate and play the game you bothered to sign up for anytime.

[Smashbard]

I'm just going to throw it out there guys, what is it going to take to get at least 9 of us to agree on a lynch? I'm getting real sick and tired of having 3-4 different wagons with everyone going Nobody Special, Mr. Zepher, Dramonic and Bacde are 100% scum guaranteed and everyone just sitting on their hands waiting for people to jump on their pet wagon of choice without even trying to scumhunt anymore.

So what's it going to take?

[Smashbard]

I should be more specific. What do you need from the opposing wagons to convince you to move your vote? This is to everyone really. Because if it's hopeless and everyone is already set on who they are voting for and there's no budging then I'm replacing out. Because I don't want to be around when this game comes to a screeching halt just because everyone is done scumhunting because they are so certain ONE PLAYER is scum. It's fucking stupid and like I said pages ago, I'm done herding cats.

[Smashbard]

I was pretty good at laying the ground work for convincing everyone to come together for a lynch on Greygnarl. What have you done?

Right, nothing.

I was hoping that through Greys flip that we could get some information going and get everyone more united against a lynch today. But I see we're just as scatter brained and stubborn as we were Day 1. So I'm not going to make the Greygnarl mistake again. I'd rather replace out that call you all fucktards and morons for not jumping on my wagon of choice. I was wrong after all. But I don't see anyone else putting any effort into bringing us all together.

You got a better idea? Now would be a great time to actually do or say something of relevance.

[Smashbard]

Talking to Jacob of course.

[Smashbard]

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Zepher

I'm done with this day phase. I'll come back once every 3 days until deadline just to prod dodge and affirm that my vote is on Mr. Zepher. It seems to be what all the cool kids are doing anyway. Hell, Jacobs got a town read from everyone but Zepher for being so utterly useless. Sounds like a sweet deal to me. Do nothing and be called town for it, I love it.

[Smashbard]

I realize there are requests out for me to respond to certain things and I will, I just felt the need to point this out now.

I'm just going to throw it out there guys, what is it going to take to get at least 9 of us to agree on a lynch? I'm getting real sick and tired of having 3-4 different wagons with everyone going Nobody Special, Mr. Zepher, Dramonic and Bacde are 100% scum guaranteed and everyone just sitting on their hands waiting for people to jump on their pet wagon of choice without even trying to scumhunt anymore.

So what's it going to take?

I was pretty good at laying the ground work for convincing everyone to come together for a lynch on Greygnarl. What have you done?

Right, nothing.

I was hoping that through Greys flip that we could get some information going and get everyone more united against a lynch today. But I see we're just as scatter brained and stubborn as we were Day 1. So I'm not going to make the Greygnarl mistake again. I'd rather replace out that call you all fucktards and morons for not jumping on my wagon of choice. I was wrong after all. But I don't see anyone else putting any effort into bringing us all together.

You got a better idea? Now would be a great time to actually do or say something of relevance.

the first post there Smash says we need to work together to find a wagon and get a lynch and that the problem is people picking one person and saying they're 100% scum and not voting for anyone else.

Then in the second post Smash says that he's considering replacing out because you don't get on his wagon he thinks you're a fucktard but doesn't want to start calling everyone that.


these two were made 6 posts apart on the same page.

So which is it Smash? are we going to work together and stop focusing on our "100% scum" targets or are you going to take your toys and stomp home to avoid calling us "fucktards" when we don't agree with you?

Oh, but wait, what's this? 2 posts (and 5 minutes later),

Unvote. Vote: Mr. Zepher

I'm done with this day phase. I'll come back once every 3 days until deadline just to prod dodge and affirm that my vote is on Mr. Zepher. It seems to be what all the cool kids are doing anyway. Hell, Jacobs got a town read from everyone but Zepher for being so utterly useless. Sounds like a sweet deal to me. Do nothing and be called town for it, I love it.

my what a series of (pouty) swings.

1) I made a call asking everyone what is it going to take to get everyone to agree on a vote.

2) I said that if we cannot come to an agreement on a vote than I'll just replace out at this point because everyone's just going to fold their hands and go "No, you join my lynch first!" without actually doing any scumhunting.

3) I then moved my vote onto Mr. Zepher and refuse to move from that wagon because he's our only chance at a compromise lynch at this point.

None of these are flip flop stances. None of these things indicate that I have changed my mind on anything. I may still replace out, because I would rather leave than have to call you a fucking idiot after every post you make because you can't seem to read properly anything that I say. And I have moved to Zepher and refuse to move specifically BECAUSE I am trying to get everyone on a singular wagon to achieve a lynch today.

Every. Single. Move I have made is consistent with an internal thought process that I have been as transparent as possible about. For someone who keeps bitching and whining about people misrepping you, you have continually tried to misrep me time and again today without even having the balls to call me scummy for it and place a vote on me. So for all my "pouting" you're gutless whining is far more useless than my words could ever be.

[Smashbard]

EBWOP: Your*


I'm calling it now, if Zepher doesn't flip scum I'm parking my vote on Zoneace until he's dead. I'm tired of trying to get his carcass on track to scumhunting while he continues to do nothing but pose a distraction to everyone's scumhunting by undermining every wagon he disagrees with while refusing to post reads of his own beyond "Bacde & Smash are scum".

[Smashbard]

Apparently it's protown to post as little as possible and when you do post, make sure it's nice and fluffy with no actual scumhunting. So regardless of alignment you might want to add some active lurking to your repertoire for future games. It's Mafiascum town meta.

[Smashbard]

Also, if you wanted to accuse me of role fishing you missed actual posts where I was fake claim fishing. On a couple of occasions I've gone after smash for his "breadcrumbing" in an attempt to force the fake claim he's setting up out into the open.

*Sigh* It is not a fakeclaim. If you can't figure out the code (which is extremely simple) then I'm not spelling it out for you. I told you I'm not giving you anymore clues. So you need to stop rolefishing. The only reason I'm not voting for you at this point is because I am a man of integrity and once I've said that I am stuck on Mr. Zepher I mean it.

After all, I am 1vs1ing you for the rest of this game until one of us is dead.

also you never actually answered me as to what interactions between smash and bacde you find scummy

And I'm not goin to any time soon. I'm currently out and posting from my phone so your not gonna get any major posts or Nalysis involving multi quotes


You could also just ISO the two of them and look. There's sheeping, buddying and following ( which I stated last GD)

Wow....You are just...so...undeniably, irrevocably, irreversibly, unbelievably, universally, incredibly, shockingly, massively stupid.

Like, so mentally deficient that I am literally amazed that you have developed the ability to type on a keyboard and/or touch pad from a cell phone. The very fact that you have any sort of mastery over the English language astounds me to such ends, that I am going to send a formal letter to the Nobel Prize organization so that you can receive an award for the sheer amount of pain and difficulty it must of caused you to somehow find a way to formulate sentences and communicate legibly with other human beings.

Bravo...I shed a tear for you. You are an inspiration to kids of special needs of the world. Thank you, you have single handedly proven that miracles do exist. Thank you so very very much.

[Smashbard]

AND fishing for modkills? Wow...I'd actually welcome that at this point. Then everyone can lynch you tomorrow for fishing for modkills, refusing to scumhunt, refusing to post your reads and otherwise refusing to participate in this game properly which is DIRECTLY illiciting these reaction from these big mean bullies that you can't stand so much.

Then we can officially bag our first scum of the game. Sure, let's trade buddy.

[Smashbard]

At least I can say that if I get modkilled I was doing so fighting for my win condition, trying to bring town together for lynches and get you to actually scumhunt, like any concerned townie would do.

I will submit statements to any moderator, administrator or mafia council I have to in order to prove that I am saying factual statements about your levels of intelligence. If I post a question telling you to present a case against me as to how I'm scum, and you literally physically cannot find the ability to create a case against me and yet you continue to call me scummy, then by basic definition you are of less-than average levels of intelligence quotient needed to state an opposing argument. You cannot find reasons as to why I am scummy, and yet you continue to say I am scummy. I have asked you time and again to show me how I am scummy, and you can't do it. You can't even post a hypothetical exercise that even TRIES to implicate me as scummy. Therefore, my assessment of your less than average intelligence is 100% correct.

So If I get modkilled because I refuse to put on kiddie gloves for someone who shouldn't be playing Mafia in the first place who refuses to learn and listen, then so be it. At least I'll go down knowing the entire town will turn on you like a pack of wild jackals and you'll be lynched so fast you won't have time to log on and even try to defend yourself. And I'll enjoy watching you go down with every single vote so that somebody can finally shut you up.

[Smashbard]

Although I cannot vote I still strongly urge anyone who wants to get this game truly back on track to vote for Zoneace. Mr. Zepher is doing a really bad job coming up with excuses to defend his actions, but Zoneace is the only one actively trying to cause dissension within the town.

1) He hasn't done any actual scumhunting for the entire day phase today.

2) He undermines every wagon and read he disagrees with, but doesn't state why he disagrees with it or elaborates on his own reads.

3) He doesn't ask questions of people, simply throws out blind accusations that have no merit and repeats the same talking points again and again bringing nothing new to his 30 page old suspicions.

4) He has tried to initiate a possible modkill due to my "rudeness", which has cost me the ability to vote for the remainder of this day phase. Some may view that as a slap on the wrist but I assure you, it is a painful punishment to prevent someone as prideful as myself from being able to participate in any wagons at all and otherwise assist in Zoneaces lynch. Which I would most certainly do after the stunt he just pulled.



If anybody has any questions or wishes me to elaborate on why I think Zoneace is scum I am willing to assist in any way so that we can get rid of him and move on in a more united fashion with the majority of the distractions out of the way going into Day 3.

For anyone who still would rather lynch Mr. Zepher than Zoneace, I request the same information from you that I have provided above. That is, a full list of reasons why Mr. Zepher is scum in your eyes.

[Smashbard]

Well I've lost the ability to vote so words, questions and answers are the only weapons I have.

If you are town and have the desire to save yourself, I would vote Zoneace at this point. Your attempts at redirecting attention at Jacobsavage have failed just as massively as Zoneace's case against Bacde. Don't be Zoneace. Be willing to change your vote in the face of convincing evidence. Because believe me, even if you flip town your death isn't going to inspire anyone to pick up a lynch against Jacob. He's lynch proof because active lurking is pro town for some reason.

[Smashbard]

I am giving the town clues to my role to help Zoneace realize that his suspicions on me are wrong. He started this train by immediately calling my breadcrumbing bullshit without even considering why I would be doing so because he has tunneled so hard on Bacde and I being scum.

I tried to be patient at the start of the day even going so far as to say that Zoneace is CONFIRMED TOWN due to Greygnarls flip. And he's turned around and spat in my face my town read on him, refusing to consider anything I have to say because I'm just sooo scummy for being friendly with Bacde.

So if I've been rude and nasty towards Zoneace, it's because of the incredible lack of respect and vitriol that Zoneace has shown me by refusing to be civil with me in the first place when I was TRYING to push him in the direction of being a productive member of the town rather than just being stuck on one person the whole game.

I don't expect Zoneace to stay off of Bacde, he's not the townie I could confirm anyway. I expect him to actually have a CASE against Bacde and try to convince people as to why he is scum.

I have asked Zoneace multiple times now to post a list of their reads and they refuse.

Zoneace and I have the EXACT SAME COMPLAINTS about this game. Active Lurkers should NOT BE PRO TOWN. Guys that openly state that they refuse to read the thread should NOT BE PRO TOWN. Guys that refuse to elaborate on their votes and reasons for voting should NOT BE PRO TOWN. But they are. And something is horribly wrong with that.

The difference between Zoneace and I is that Zoneace needs to recognize that he is apart of the problem. And needs to adjust his play accordingly to post more reads, elaborate on to why he thinks people are scummy or town, things like that. But rather than even consider for one second that he's wrong, Zoneace would rather just call the rest of us dumbshits or scum because we just can't see how horribly obvious it is that Bacde and I are scum, when I have by nature of my breadcrumbing PROVED that I am not.

Zoneace is wrong, and needs to accept that he is wrong. Otherwise I fully plan to make good on my promise to 1VS1 Zoneace for the entire rest of this game until one of us is dead.

[Smashbard]

Just for posterity sake, I'll post my reads in this game thus far. Yes some of my scumreads will be over any reasonable limit for us to expect that there is that many scum. But I hate null reads so I won't be grouping anybody into that. So my scum pile is more of a list of "People who I am willing to lynch at this time and/or have not done enough for me to be convinced that they are town aligned". I will be happy to provide any elaborations on my reads if requested.


Town:
ActionDan
Bacde
Human Destroyer
KingdomAces
Konowa
Oversoul
PeregrineV
Petapan
Roflcopter
Wind Up


Scum:
Dramonic
JacobSavage
Mr. Zepher
Nobody Special
ZoneAce

[Smashbard]

I will be happy to provide any elaborations on my reads if requested.
Scum:
Dramonic
JacobSavage
Mr. Zepher
Nobody Special
ZoneAce

Explains your scumreads.
And make them not "I don't like his playstyle", if you

can

Dramonic: Hasn't done enough for me to consider that he's more town than scum.

JacobSavage: Active Lurking. Ignores any accusations towards him and just continues to active lurk without doing anything.

Mr. Zepher: He was TheTrollies only real scumread. Also has done really bad deflecting and his reasons for voting others don't make a lot of sense. So basically, Dramonic read.

Nobody Special: Multi-Ball speculation makes me believe that he knows a kill somehow didn't go through last night.

Zoneace: Rolefishing, actively undermining towns attempts at coming together for a lynch without posting reasons why he opposes certain wagons. Refuses to post reads of players this game after being asked multiple times.

[Smashbard]

I tried to be patient at the start of the day even going so far as to say that Zoneace is CONFIRMED TOWN due to Greygnarls flip. And he's turned around and spat in my face my town read on him, refusing to consider anything I have to say because I'm just sooo scummy for being friendly with Bacde.

Seriously, you saying that I'm confirmed town because of GG's flip is not somehow confirmation that your town and not reason for me to just trust you implicitly. That has to be the worst logic ever.

Also if GG's flip makes me confirmed town why are you pushing my lynch so hard? The only reason would be you're scum and/or you just don't like my playstyle.


If in your eyes I'm confirmed town there is NO EXCUSE for trying to lynch me.

And before you try and claim that me wanting to PETA for his hyper aggressive/antagonistic style is hypocritical it's not because I have no confirmation of his alignment one way or the other. If her were "confirmed town" in my eyes my vote would not be on him.

You were confirmed town in my eyes. Until you refused to post your reads, continued to undermine every wagon under the sun without explaining why, and continued to tunnel me as scum after I have proven that I am town.

And yes, I have proven that I am town. If nobody can come up with a counter explanation for the code I posted within my first 11 posts or figure out how scum could possibly confirm a townie from their flip, then I am confirmed town. Deal with it and lynch me if you don't like it. I'm no longer a valid scum suspect and will only reveal my role if at L-1.

[Smashbard]

Lynch Zoneace. That is all. Good luck guys.

[Smashbard]

I have a bad feeling all of our day phases are going to end the same way. Town divided. Nobody clear on who really is scum, or at least, nobody capable of giving reasons that actually change opinions unless we're 2 days from deadline and a lynch HAS to go through. Not looking good for us at all folks.

That's ok, once I'm dead then you guys can lynch Zoneace as my dying wish.

[Smashbard]

Bacde, Human Destroyer and Roflcopter should all jump on the Zoneace wagon for town cred. Being that you're in my town pile, it would behoove you to lynch scum today.

[Smashbard]

Nobody Special & Jacob Savage should buss their partner and vote Zoneace while we're at it. You'd be playing towards your scum win condition by claiming you can't be scum, because you voted for one.

Sure, it's a bad argument. But it's better than you avoiding the wagon altogether and letting people dissect which people (I.E. You) weren't on the scum flip wagon. Making it a lot easier to lynch you than if you were to buss your partner.

[Smashbard]

Because Zepher isn't the scummier player.

[Smashbard]

Subjective at best. I think the arguments posted in favor of a Zoneace lynch are far superior to a Zepher lynch.

Also, if I were allowed to vote, the wagons would be tied. So just imagine I'm there in spirit with a box of krispy kremes promising gooey sugary goodness to all who join my wagon.

I'm sorry, that was misleading. I wasn't referring to donuts. It's semen.

[Smashbard]

I think you and I could be good friends, Human Destroyer. lol.

[Smashbard]

We could be compatriots once Zoneace is sleeping with the fishes.

[Smashbard]

By bludgeoning Zoneace we could be brothers in blood...Zoneaces blood.

[Smashbard]

Agreed.

[Smashbard]

Hope you're ready to shoot me Zone. God knows your plan to discredit me as scumpartners with Bacde blew up in your face. Now if Zepher doesn't flip scum you're gonna have me stuck on you like a porcupine on a pin cushion.

Or something equally as painful.

[Smashbard]

Son of a bitch Konowa, I wanted to die. There's no way I can erase all doubt as to my claim and confirm my partner if we're both allowed to keep living.

But...thanks anyway.

Also, severe amount of apologies are in order, I am sorry Zoneace. I won't question your alignment again.

On the bright side we can look at who actually was joining me on the Zoneace wagon and can try to defer which of them were scum avoiding a partner lynch.

[Smashbard]

Vote: Dramonic

[Smashbard]

don't mind dram.

As evidenced by Gay mafia II, he may be clueless that you've been crumbing either mason or neighbor.

I'm more than aware he's been crumbing mason.
Hey, I could crumb mason to and get confirmed, sounds like a genius plan!

Which is precisely the reason I still don't trust Smash. Just because you tell me you're breadcrumbing something doesn't mean that what you're breadcrumbing is true.

Hence why I wanted to die last night. It was the only way to confirm my role and eliminate all doubt as to my claim.

I'm just gonna come out and say it, because I'm dead tonight anyway because I doubt we got more than 1 protective role.

I'm a Day Mason. Which means, my partner and I can talk during the day and night.

Continuing to suspect me is only going to serve as a distraction to scum hunting. I am extending an olive branch to you. We need to stop the stupid in fighting and work together.

Right now I am suspicious of Oversoul, Wind Up & Nobody Special. I don't understand the suspicions of Human Destroyer. He seemed more town coming from his argument with Go Day 1.

[Smashbard]

Can you at least pretend to have a stated case against Human Destroyer before I consider joining you?

[Smashbard]

Dram could be town, I'm not really interested in Konowa's reads, and yes I'm voting you despite having called HD/Oversoul probably scum

The only reason you should be uninterested in Konowas reads are if you believe scum targeted me last night and Konowa just happened to protect me.

Otherwise if you of the opinion that they killed Konowa directly, his reads should be the first suspects we look at.

[Smashbard]

I'll be perfectly straight, I haven't done shit for rereading over the weekend. It's like, I want to. I have a list of at least three suspects I want to look into. But I just can't seem to find the energy to try and find something from the threads past that is somehow going to be new and riveting information.

So let's try something different here.

These two questions are to everyone. Depending on your position.


1) If you believe that scum targeted me and Konowa just happened to be protecting me, do you think there are any specific people you can think of who would want me dead? And not just in a way that is like, "Duh you were breadcrumbing a role and anyone scum would want you dead". I mean, could there be any other motivations for a particular player to want me dead?

or 2) If you believe Konowa was just targeted directly, which specific people do you feel would be most likely wanting Konowa dead? Think of it this way, if Mr. Zepher killed TheTrollie because Trollie had a scumread on Zepher and nothing else, is there similar evidence to support that the scum team are just doing equally obvious moves and killed Konowa for the same reasons as Trollie?

[Smashbard]

I have stated my suspects being Oversoul, Wind Up & Dramonic at the moment. But I don't have anything really to go off of that is enough to bother posting.



@ Roflcopter, ok, if you truly believe scum tried to kill you, tell me who you think would have enough of a vendetta against you that they would want you dead? Basically, same question as before, just replace my name with your own. Elaborating as to why Human Destroyer is scummy would also help immensely. Because I don't see it.

@ Wind Up, your redirect to my post where I state my reads only really helps if you think that JacobSavage, Dramonic or Zoneace are scum in one way or another. You've stated that you don't believe Zephers flip confirms Zoneace as town, but you don't go so far as to say he's scum either. What's the deal?

@PeregrineV, I have good ideas as to who I believe are scum. But it's based solely on gut and WIFOM.

It's looking like today is going to be between Action Dan & Nobody Special. I'm leaning towards Nobody Special in that regard. That whole multi ball thing just reeks to me of scum knowledge.

[Smashbard]

I wouldn't mind lynching Dramonic at this point. At the very least racking up his vote count would probably pressure him into playing actively again. Since that was the only period in which he was actively scumhunting. Since then he's only bothered to post every few days to remind everyone how he's not scum. So I think I'll leave my vote on him for now.

[Smashbard]

I think we can all gain a little more traction if we stop accusing people of not scumhunting and just do some scumhunting ourselves.

That's why I am trying to ask questions. As feeble as they are. We need to figure shit out. What interactions did Mr. Zepher have with other players that might suggest scumbuddies? There's a starting point.

Overall even though I've been guilty of this as well, I think we all need to stop this snarky bickering with one another and start asking legitimate questions rather than accusing everyone of not doing enough. Let's change that by starting to do more ourselves.

[Smashbard]

Yeah, Human Destroyer emphatically stating that he does not have any sort of town read on Mr. Zepher, despite attacking people who were suspicious of him at the time, definitely reads to me like scum keeping his options open.

But why would he buss Zepher so hard in our humorous little back and forth when if he were scum partners with Zepher, when he could of easily jumped on my Zoneace wagon that was gaining traction as a counter to lynching his would-be partner?

Yes I know, I realize I'm considering WIFOM again. But really that's all I got for drawing connections right now.

If I can somehow get an intelligible answer, I'll switch to the HD wagon for sure.

[Smashbard]

Unvote. Vote: Human Destroyer

Eh, this development intrigues me. I wanna see where it goes.

[Smashbard]

Uhm, he only scumreads I see that Konowa every officially resigned to was Dramonic & Zoneace.

His literal ONLY mention of HD was one post saying he read absolutely nothing but the page we were on saying "HD is scum, right?" and then stating later that he got "Absolutely nothing from the Go/HD argument".

Roflcopter is stretching something fierce to get us to vote HD. I'm not longer comfortable with this wagon.

Unvote.

[Smashbard]

I haven't read anything outside this page.

HD is scum, right?

unvote;
Vote: MrZepher

Zepher and Trollie are both scum for their awkward as fuck posts on page one. The most important part of the game is the first few pages because scum have a hard time trying to get into the flow of the game. Awkwardness is a scumtell in RVS. Then continuing through the game –none- of Zepher’s posts have done anything to determine alignment. For example, 171 is a softball question that scum love.

In other news, I got absolutely nothing the first time I read the Go/HD back and forth. I should try that again. Also, someone should shoot Jacob (post 139 is another one of those awkward "HAHA let me chime in" jokes).

Here's the exact quotes for context. You're fucking joking me right? THIS is supposed to be Konowas scumread on HD?

I'm definitely suspicious of HD's lack of defending himself. But Rofl just screwed the pooch by claiming Konowa had a scumread on him when it was clearly a spam post that was never elaborated on later or explained. And none of Konowas Day 2 play suggested to me that he was suspicious of HD at all.

I'd rather lynch Dramonic. But I have a giant hand of suspicion over Rofl now.

[Smashbard]

Yeah, I'm definitely not being on any wagon that Dramonic is on.

[Smashbard]

Vote: Nobody Special

[Smashbard]

Why don't you want to be investigated Oversoul? Afraid of what might come up?

Although I highly doubt there is a cop. In Normal set ups Masons are generally considered alternatives or replacements to an investigative role.

[Smashbard]

I think Oversoul is flailing a little too much at the idea of being investigated. But it's a little late for that now. Today's lynch is gonna be ActionDan or Nobody Special. I would like Nobody Special on the chopping block because my conscious isn't gonna let me live that multi ball speculation down without a lynch at some point this game.

[Smashbard]

Is Nobody Special lynched yet?

I'm done.. Nobody has any energy left for scumhunting, and everytime I've tried to rally us to a wagon with some energy some smart ass derails my momentum because my case isn't good enough or there's "somebody better". So I'll take my bullet tonight and love it. Because I truly am tired of herding cats.

Well folks, this is what happens when you don't lynch people off of simple, effective reasons.

Playstyles like PetaPans SHOULD be inspiring some sort of reaction. If he's obviously playing the whole "silent but thoughtful townie who doesn't say anything unless it's worth mentioning" then people should of been paying more attention to what he has to say and why he says it.

But apparently it's cool to just ignore the arguments of everyone else in the game and just keep voting for your own pet wagons.

Nobody Special scumslipped when he mentioned Multi-Ball. There's no way he should be able to speculate as to a Multi-Ball set up unless he KNOWS a kill didn't go through Night 1.

I shouldn't have to elaborate any more than that. I shouldn't have to have more evidence than that. It's a God Damn scumslip. You lynch the fuck out of scumslips. There is literally no possible reason if you are thinking from a TOWN mind set why you suddenly come to a realization that "Hey, we could be in Multi-Ball!" based of absolutely zero evidence.

Good luck guys, you're gonna need it. When I die, I want you to lynch Nobody Special. Like literally, within the first 10 posts of Day 4 I want to see him lynched. No arguments. No counter wagons. Just lynch the obvscum and be done with it.

[Smashbard]

He didn't speculate. He said that he had a gut feeling that the setup was multi-ball. He did not invite discussion on the matter. That is not a slip. It isn't a 'sudden realisation', either. Even if there is literally 'no possible reason if you are thinking from a TOWN mind set' to bring up the possibility of multiball, you fail to show the existence of reasons for NS to bring it up as part of a scum mindset. Proving a lack of a town mindset does not mean that there is a scum mindset.

Stop whining. Your cases are flimsy. Just because you are town does not mean you are right or that we should lynch who you want to lynch.

I've already stated why scum would believe there is a multi ball set up, if you actually paid attention to this game. They would obviously believe that there is multi-ball if a kill went through during Night 1 and they KNOW it was NOT THEIR TARGET.

He's scumslipped. His claim is fake as hell. After I'm dead you lynch Nobody Special. Period. No excuses.

[Smashbard]

And yes, I agree with Bacde. If and when Nobody Special flips scum your Day 1 PGO claim becomes utter bullshit to me. So you better kill me tonight or Nobody Special and yourself are gonna be strung up on the highest branches of the gnarliest tree I can find in this backwater town.

[Smashbard]

KingdomAces: Get on one of the big wagons. You outright state that Nobody Special is lying, and yet you move your vote onto someone who is decidedly NOT getting lynched today by a vast majority of the players. Make up your mind as to what you want to do.

[Smashbard]

I don't award you town points for claiming PGO. You just conveniently have claimed a role that no investigative role can ever confirm, or risk killing themselves if you're telling the truth. While at the same time even more conveniently having a great excuse as to why you get to survive until end game because scum wouldn't target you for a kill due to the risk of you telling the truth.

That's what makes it such a perfect scum strategy. You get a free ride from lynches because gosh, you're a power role. You get a free ride from investigations because gosh, we don't want to have our power roles die. You get off scot free against any suspicion as to why scum haven't killed you because gosh, scum can't afford to die either.

So yes, Nobody Specials association tell with you based on his flip will condemn you to being my next lynch vote. Because I'm not fucking buying a PGO claim that lets you just coast through the game free from suspicions or being expected to actually contribute in any meaningful way just because you claimed PGO.

[Smashbard]

Vote: Wind Up

[Smashbard]

Take it from me. On my main I was an arrogant self righteous jerk and wrong. I alt because I'm ashamed of myself.

Yeah, that's pretty much the plan. I've failed so hard at this game in too many different games that I think my rep as Smashbard is well and truly tarnished. After this game, I'll be signing up as an alt so I can still ride the waves of being a Newbie for a little bit longer. Two games are obviously not enough to be considered Semi-Experienced and ready for these Large Normals.

Not to mention I seem to get Mason in every other fucking game I get, and I don't know how to play a Mason worth shit without claiming Day 2 out of panic due to my play being so poor.

But your series of bitchy ad homs are not going to prevent me from voting for you. I do have a reason for my vote. But I wouldn't be able to state it without outing my Mason Partner.

So enjoy that. My vote stays on you.

[Smashbard]

Eh, unfortunately it's too late now for me. I've already fucked up too much. Luckily the rest of the town seems to have no trouble lynching scum despite my railroading due to always thinking the target is town. Except for Zepher, I always thought he was scum. Just thought that Zoneace was more scum than Zepher.

Human Destroyer was well and truly an example of a guy that I had an absolutely solid, irrefutable town read on. Which is the biggest reason why my confidence is shattered. I just don't understand how I could be SO OFF BASE.

But I have too much pride to just replace out in shame. So I'm gonna finish up my time in this game and move on.

[Smashbard]

I'll PM you specifically to let you know it's still me. lol.

So...why Peregrine?

[Smashbard]

Eh, I just joined the order of the flowchart, which demands that I sheep at every opportunity. So Wind Up better thank his lucky stars.

Vote: PeregrineV

[Smashbard]

Eh, I'll vote ActionDan just because it's the only way to validate his PGO claim.

I haven't been able to find anything on the Wiki or even Mafiascum threads that suggest that PGO is an acceptable normal role. To be fair nor have I seen anything that explicitly states its NOT normal either.

But that's what worries me.

Vote: ActionDan

[Smashbard]

Son of a bitch.

Unvote. Vote: Wind Up

[Smashbard]

But your series of bitchy ad homs [...]

If you act like a jerk...

I haven't been able to find anything on the Wiki or even Mafiascum threads that suggest that PGO is an acceptable normal role. To be fair nor have I seen anything that explicitly states its NOT normal either.

But that's what worries me.

"New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication."

But the Paranoid Gun Owner itself is a well established and known Mafia role, and the PGO wiki page says nothing on whether or not it is a normal/non-normal role.

So saying that it could be included as a variant role doesn't jive with me. Especially considering it would be an awkward design flaw for two Day Masons to be in the same set up as a PGO. There's no way for those 3 roles to interact with each other. The Jailkeeper and Bodyguard roles make more sense.


Point is, I don't feel like letting you ride the rest of this game without us ever being able to truly know whether you are lying or not just because it's too risky for either side to test out your claim in the night.

Thus the only solution is to lynch you.

[Smashbard]

Maybe that's because KingdomAces is obvious town.

[Smashbard]

And plus, with my track record of mislynching Greygnarl, and then proceeding to not be on either scum wagon, I'm sure you don't have anything to worry about Wind Up. You are in no danger of being lynched. But that's where my vote sits until I find something better to sheep.

[Smashbard]

JacobSavage quite literally is the exact same case, except with this posts not even looking like they are content filled.

Dramonic only posted at one point in the game because he had pressure on him, and has sense lurked through the rest of the game.

Those are two players I would rather lynch off of a active lurking case than KingdomAces. Quite literally, Savage ONLY posts once a wagon starts to form, primarily to join said wagon.

At least Aces is decidedly useless and perpetually undecided. I would rather be that than what I have been, which is 100% certain and 100% wrong.

[Smashbard]

Fuck it, you're forcing my hand. If I don't reveal who my partner is, you risk shooting him.

You can't shoot KingdomAces. He's my Day Mason partner.

The first letter of my first 11 posts when put all together spell out "AcesIsMason"

I meant to make the code larger to be "AcesIsAMasonWithSmashbardOnly"

But I got excited and side tracked with my scumhunting and forgot to stay on track with the code.

[Smashbard]

I wanted to keep my partner a secret, but with (no offense partner) how useless and inactive he's been, I can't trust him at this point to remember to claim Mason after my death.

Our quick topic is just as useless as his posts in the thread. He's perpetually unsure of his reads and the only person he's thought was scum the entire game is ActionDan. But I disagreed with him because I felt Nobody Special was the obvscum out of the two.

Other than that him and I haven't been able to come to an agreement on ANY of our reads. And his inactivity virtually killed our quick topic because we haven't posted in there except for maybe once a week.

[Smashbard]

As for who you should kill, I would say Dramonic or ActionDan.

I highly doubt Go/Oversoul and Human Destroyer orchestrated a scum vs. scum counter buss situation so early in the game.

You won't kill Jacobsavage because he's a town read to you. Even though it is clear that he is BLATANTLY active lurking only to show up to jump on wagons. Which screams opportunistic scum to me.

PetaPan seems obvtown to me. Same as Bacde.

Aces & Myself are Masons.

I don't know what to think of PeregrineV at the moment. Nor Zoneace.

Roflcopter seems town to me. Except for his immediately recent plays where he just seems to be jumping from wagon to wagon seeing which popular lynch target will stick for him.

ActionDan dying would give us an answer to see if he was just scum trying to 1v1 someone from the beginning.

Dramonic is my #2 choice, for the same reasons I would want JacobSavage shot. But at least Dram isn't necessarily in your town pile.

[Smashbard]

As much as I think Oversoul may be town, as long as we're discussing killing someone solely to figure out what their gambit was then the only two clear choices are Oversoul & Actiondan using that logic.

ActionDan due to his interactions with town Nobody Special. Oversoul due to his interactions with Mr. Zepher and Go's interactions with HD.

So if we're killing someone to try and piece together pieces of the mafia puzzle, kill one of those two.

If we're killing someone based on active lurking goodness, then kill Dramonic.

[Smashbard]

Make no mistake, I fully want Wind Up lynched if he doesn't do his daykill today.

[Smashbard]

Lol.

You can't daykill can you.

[Smashbard]

Unvote.

Now to decide whether or not ActionDan or Oversoul should be todays lynch.

I don't think ActionDan is more scummy than Oversoul at the moment. Considering he tunneled Nobody Special since basically the start of Day 1, there's no way he could of known Nobody Special was a Jailkeeper from the very start. Which scum would do as soon as they rolecopped a role, they would try to find a way to kill them or lynch them during the day.

ActionDan reads as a whole lot of stubborness.

I just don't know if I also believe that HD/Go were purposefully bussing one another Day 1. Oversoul came in like a ball of fire trying to lynch Mr. Zepher. But ever since then hasn't really done a lot. But his defenses against Bacde seem genuine.

This is hard.

Do we have any other thoughts as to who has been reading scummy?

[Smashbard]

Oh shit. I hadn't realized it has been that long since I last posted. Sorry for the prod guys. I hate doing that.

Bacde, we should do a Hydra together.

That is all.

[Smashbard]

No no, in all seriousness, I don't have a fucking clue anymore.

ActionDan should be lynched because Nobody Special would of wanted it.

But ActionDan isn't the most comfortable person I am with lynching. It just doesn't feel right.

But I dunno how much I can trust my gut because at this point it's telling me to lynch everyone.

Roflcopter is just giving me all kinds of heeby jeebies. But PetaPan is defending him pretty hard, so since I usually have been trusting in Peta's reads, the only way I can trust that Rofl is scum is if Peta is his scumpartner.

My brain is also making me paranoid because in the last large normal that I was in (where I was also a Mason) the Mafia had a guy with the ability to Daykill. He only revealed that he had the ability during MyLo, and we all bought it as him being the one-shot dayvig. But in reality he was just scum with a daykill ability. So now I'm all like "Fuck, Wind Up still could be scum".

I'm always down for a Zoneace lynch whenever you guys feel like throwing one away. Yeah that's right, I don't think Zoneace will flip scum, I just wanna lynch him for personal reasons. lol.

I also feel like Bacde could be scum just out of principle, because I dunno how much I can trust his chumminess at this point.

Peregrine & JacobSavage are lurking, and I'm always down for a lurker lynch. Nobody who is town aligned and alive at this point after 3 day phases should still be lurking and "unsure" of their reads.

Which makes me want to lynch my own Mason partner, shockingly enough. KingdomAces has been so utterly useless all game that I can't help but continue paranoia within myself in believing that the Moderator may have used one of his allowed "alternate" slots to make the Masons' have one of them be scum and Aces has just purposefully not posted in our quick topic or been useful at all because he knows he can get away with lurking the rest of the game because I would of eventually confirmed him.

I just want to lynch Oversoul because of Go's interactions with HD on Day 1 possibly leaning towards scum double bussing to cause confusion.






So in a nutshell, I want to lynch all of you. So I'm open to sheeping whatever case sounds the best come deadline time.

[Smashbard]

He's probably not scum. But hell, I've been wrong about every other scumread this game so why not ActionDan. lol.

[Smashbard]

Let's lynch Zoneace tomorrow. I would enjoy that.

[Smashbard]

Uhm...what?

You say you're scum, and then proceed to try and post last minute analysis as to who the scum are?

Are you actively playing against your win condition at this point? Because if you're town you are throwing everyone off on purpose and it's fucking up the game.

[Smashbard]

If ActionDan flips town I totally buy a Rofl/Peta as the last two possible scum.

If Dan flips scum, then I won't be lynching either of them anytime soon. lol.

[Smashbard]

Wasn't Dan lynched like, a while ago with Jacobs hammer?

[Smashbard]

Son of a bitch Zoneace.

I want to lynch you sooo bad, but I think anyone town knows who the last two scum are. Especially since Peta & Rofl just gave themselves away by piling on Zoneace for targeting them.

But for arguments sake let's break it down.

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch. Which if there's 2 scum left leaves us plenty of breathing room for figuring out the puzzle.

Smashbard - Day Mason.
KingdomAces - Day Mason.

Bacde - Town. He's pretty much acted in his own way on his own accord all game long.

PeregrineV - Town. Especially with his pointing out the Day 1 Lynch pretty much damns Rofl & Peta as the remaining scum being the only two guys we don't have a good idea as to the alignment of that wagon.

Zoneace - Probably town. I'm leaving this one slightly open in case I am balls wrong about Rofl & Peta somehow, and the fact that I want to lynch him regardless of aligment.

Jacobsavage - Still null on this one. I don't trust his opportunistic lurker voting. The fact that he's been so in your face about it does not make him seem more town to me.

Oversoul - Not sure about this one either. The only thing that makes me feel he's town is that I've agreed with a lot of his analysis so I can see his logic coming from a very town mindset.

Which leaves Rofl & Peta, who have been very closely knit with one another on their reads and wagon agreements ever since HD got lynched.

I think taking a look at Rofl & Petas reactions, if any, towards the HD/Go fight as well as all the pressure that came off and on Mr. Zepher would lead into some very solid insight into their interactions and possible partnerships.

Alas, I am far too lazy to do that right now. But I've pointed you in the right direction to look, so if I don't get on it, somebody else definitely should.


Case in point, I think we lynch Peta or Rofl today. If either of them comes up town, then we ignore the other one tomorrow as a suspect and look more into the other "grey area" players like Jacob Savage, Oversoul and Zoneace. (I would really like to lynch Zoneace).

[Smashbard]

And in case anybodies wondering, or the Mod might not have seen it, KingdomAces is requesting replacement. It could have easily been missed as our Quick Topic is dead. I mean, we probably haven't posted in it in over a month kind of dead. But by the time he came back it was already nightphase, so that's when he requested the replacement.

I don't think this puts a damper in our course of action though.

[Smashbard]

I figured Rofl, being one of the scum, would bring up the whole "If one of the Mason's doesn't die then lynch one of them" while on the same page yelling about town being so stupid that they are throwing the game.

I pretty much knew after I made it blatantly fucking obvious what my role was Day 2 and I didn't die that Scum was setting up the classic "The Claimed Mason's Must Be Scum Because They Haven't Died Yet" fallacy.

But thank you Rofl, for continuing to slip again and again on this final day phase before you die. It just makes lynching you and your partner all the easier.

[Smashbard]

Although you might be in luck, I might just lynch Zoneace today just because I want him dead. His blatant pandering to Bacde, Aces and Myself as 100% town is definitely posturing for town support. lol.

[Smashbard]

Your ad hom bullshit defense is only going to make me want to lynch you more.

You seem to be a little bit confused here. No matter how much you stamped your feet and was otherwise utterly useless last day phase insisting again and again "I'm town I'm town", you haven't proven a thing.

I have.

I'd much rather lynch Roflcopter or PetaPan today. But Rofls point of him bussing HD & Mr. Zepher makes for a helluva lot stronger case to keep him alive today than your "If you lynch me you're an idiot" argument.

So if you and Roflcopter are just going to go back and forth insulting me seeing which of your ad hom strategies works out the best to convince me to lynch someone? You're gonna be the one hanging, Zoneace. Straighten up.

[Smashbard]

Just to spell it out for you, this is the part where you start trying to state reasons why PetaPan is a better lynch than you. And just another helpful hint, your case should have nothing to do with "I'm just so town, so you shouldn't lynch me". I don't care whether or not we should lynch YOU, start convincing people why we should lynch someone ELSE.

[Smashbard]

*sigh* You just, can never cooperate with people in a respectful, logical manner can you? Must be why you play Mafia, am I right?

Saying that I'm an idiot or that I'm being a stubborn bullheaded oaf is not a statement of the obvious. It is your opinion of my actions. If you can't even understand a basic difference between facts and opinions than God help you.

You already look bad enough saying that you want to claim AFTER the suspected Mafia targets. Which is always a scum move motivated by wanting to make sure your pre-determined roleclaim goes through safely without risk of a counter claim from those who are you trying to lynch.

So hell, JacobSavage looks more town than you right now because he jumped right in on wanting to be the FIRST to claim. Because he knew a Vanilla Claim was harmless.

But obviously you are posturing as if you have some sort of power role, otherwise you wouldn't have a specific request to claim after any particular player.

If it's an investigative role with a guilty result on Peta, then there's no need for Peta to claim before you. You know he's scum and he should be today's lynch and if you're wrong than we lynch you tomorrow for setting up a desperation mislynch.

If it's anything else, then you're just looking really scummy for not claiming before your stated suspects.

Hence why I am getting more and more inclined to lynch you.

So I'm going to say it again, straighten up.

[Smashbard]

Oh so now I'm wrong in thinking that Rofl and Peta are scum? Great. Let's lynch you then. Since you absolutely refuse to be helpful.

Vote: Zoneace

[Smashbard]

Precisely, if he's so convinced Rofl & Peta are the scum team then he has absolutely no reason to worry about being L-2.

His worrying about it proves that he's not truly sure about his reads. As he fears a scum quicklynch.

I haven't "made my decision" in the slightest. Because I believe Rofl & Peta to be the final 2 scum. So I'm not worried about Zoneace being lynched until the mass claim is complete.

But his ragequit resulting from my vote is very telling.

[Smashbard]

Does it really matter in what order we go in from Oversoul to Bacde? As far as I know everyone except for Zoneace should be claiming Vanilla. And if Zoneace claims Vanilla as well than we might as well lynch him for making such a hubris over wanting to claim after Peta when he had no reason to do so.

[Smashbard]

Alright well with Zoneace clearing Bacde officially, I think we've pretty much got this in the bag.

Lynch Peta today, Zoneace probably dies in the night because the scum seem to love having two Masons around to box them in further and further.

From there, we lynch Rofl and it's gg.

[Smashbard]

It's a win-win situation for me.

If Peta flips scum, the last scum will kill Zoneace tonight.

If Peta flips town, we lynch Zoneace tomorrow.

Either way Zoneace dies before end game so I'm happy.

[Smashbard]

Well if peta flips town we wouldn't be lynching a power role Zoneace now would we?

I'm not a dick. I just like to see you rage everytime I mention lynching you. So...yeah that does make me a dick now doesn't it? lol.