NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Ok so far --
bonertime i honestly don't really care about right now -- his questioning has been pro-town, and though I don't agree with the early push on bitmap, I'm inclined to give him a pass because I think he's gonna help us win even if he's scum.
bitmap is pretty gut town. #86 isn't coming from scum; he's not even attempting to be careful about the flow of his reads.
Om gets the Nobody Special treatment...I want him policy lynched or shot at some point.
I also don't get anyone's town read on vifam other than it looks like he doesn't give a fuck. The huge boner buddying sure isn't doing it for me.
I don't like Majiffy this game...mozamis looks pretty town to me and I don't know what Majiffy's on about with him.
I don't get the penguin hate either.
Herobrine's 374 is reachy as shit and is a gross overjustification for a vote over penguin 283. 391 sucks too.
VOTE: Herobrine
Anyone I didn't mention I don't have a strong opinion about yet.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 405, Majiffy wrote:In post 403, borkjerfkin wrote:I actually missed that he was sheeping the penguin case, and that's my bad, but I want to be clear:
Are you calling him out for sheeping or are you calling him out for sheeping that particular case? Because #390 looks like the former.
I'm calling him out for not doing any thinking of his own all game. The sheeping is just one part of that long trend.
Really not seeing this -- he came right in with some reads. See #93, #98, #114...pretty much everything but the sheeping. What are your examples?
Majiffy wrote:Plus his really bad reactions to being called out.
I disagree -- this is primarily why I had him as town. He doesn't seem flustered or flaily. #392 is overly snarky -- not a scumtell and I think an appropriate reaction to what seems to be an accusation of "sheeping therefore scum" (from his POV). Again, examples?beefycheese-
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Catching up --
Literally the only thing in Mollie's iso that initially bugged me is the first paragraph of #740 and upon rereading it doesn't even seem that bad to me. I find her suspicion of Matt (in the context of being the only one exhibiting such suspicion) null -- I can see town her just being paranoid or scum her smart enough to realize the value of attempting to discredit him, but really the rest of her iso is just posting reads and responding to yet another super reachy case from Herobrine. Why did that wagon die? Lots of people are still calling him scummy. Anyway I have a weak town read on Mollie for looking like she's trying to figure shit out.
I get Matt's wagon analysis, but you're assuming that one of Mollie/Mhork has to be scum there -- why not just go after people on the Mollie wagon if you think the Mhork wagon is town driven instead of Mhork who hasn't even been around since it's really even become a true wagon? I guess just as importantly, I don't get any real scum read off Mhork either. He's just tunneling mollie. So? Null on him.
IAI also doesn't strike me as particularly scummy -- I actually am reading him town due to #759. I don't get what's scummy about #763 at all.
Underachivers looks, I dunno....dumb for even attempting to push this Josh thing but I don't see how it's scum motivated. Moz looks worse for taking it seriously.
p-edit and looks better again for 3 posts above this.
I have a town read on zab.
Chk doesn't look great to me for #759 as a followup to #608, where Majiffy joined him on a wagon? Am I reading this wrong?
Anyway I don't like any of the developing wagons and this is troubling. Leaving my vote where it is for the moment.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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In post 905, mozamis wrote:Hmmm Uberninja seems hyper aggressive. Lots of swearing etc Gonna check her meta. Can sometimes be a scumtell.
Anyone else knwo anything about her meta?
I played one prior game with Uber, we were both town, and, well, lets just say aggressive doesn't even begin to cover it.
No experience with him as scum so I dunno if he'd be acting differently if he were. I do think the PbP thing he's doing is pretty worthless though and skipped most of it.
Mozamis wrote:Well, Uber looks less aggressive in those other games. 3 games aren't conclusive, but I think she's worth keeping an eye on. Or is Uber a he? Anyway yeah
Less aggressive elsewhere or less aggressive here?beefycheese-
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In post 909, JacobSavage wrote:Oooh I can be prodded. Also why should we trust you not too change wagons again?
I don't like this post...it's like Matt's interfering with your coasting or what? (I assume that's who you're talking to)beefycheese-
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VOTE: underachivers
As I said earlier, I don't see anything scummy about going for Josh earlier, as ill advised as I believe that to be, but I see no feasible way for that to have somehow bridged into post #1035 where so many people are scum reads without a whole lot of reference or interaction with many of them. There's no attempt to reconcile the large number of scum reads either.
I don't think Matt is scum -- the assertion that he's scummy for jerking town around by the dick in order to waste the bankable deadline is a huge huge stretch to me.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Mollie wrote:Majiffy - I saw something earlier that made me think he was scummy. you would have to know him in order to get it. and it might not even be legit. I have a tendency to get super duper paranoid about him in general but I learned to just ride it out.if he is town he will find scum if he is scum he will wind up bussing his teammates at some point. win/win either way to leave him in the game longer.
Heh I think I made that point in Micro 99.beefycheese-
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tua wrote:
So you don't think I'm scummy for going for Josh but....I'm still scum? The hell? Its a 21 player game and there are gonna be like 5-6 scum. I don't see why my suspecting multiple suspects is "bad". Casting a wider net is more likely to hit scum. Unless you are scum and you know that I'm off there's no reason to attack me for suspecting others. So its like your voting me for the sake of voting? Was my town read on you wrong?
Here's a better way of putting it -- how do you get from pushing the lurkiest of lurkers, which I find a dubious move as either alignment (hence why I call it null) and one that I'd only ever make if I had no other leads, to having a pool of 9 people that you'll lynch? Casting a wider net is only as good as the criteria for people you're putting in that net.
tua wrote:Also, Mhork had 9 lynch candidates for today. Why am I suspicious but he is not?
I had to look this up, so I admit it wasn't something I remembered at all, but I have to assume you're talking about the middle of #1048 where he lists 9 people? Do I really have to explain why saying "I think 1 or 2 out of my wagon (this 9 people) are scum" which is what he's saying and "These 9 are all scumreads" which is what you're saying?beefycheese-
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In post 1176, TheUnderachivers wrote:In post 1170, UberNinja wrote:More people need to ignore the current I_Am_Innocent and TheUnderachivers wagons and vote for pirate mollie.
Swtich Mollie with JS and this post is gold. JS is scum and everyone avoiding JS is suspect.
Yep this is how mafia works.
In other news I like how UN's wall has underacheeevers (the lead wagon) "going way up on his scumdar" but totally wants everyone to ignore it in favor of mollie.beefycheese-
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@hydra -- First two points are policy lynch points so sure.
I don't agree with three (especially in the context of bankable deadline -- scum should have no problem with this wagon going away, even moreso if it's on a scumbuddy) and I don't even understand four.
p-edit: @IAI -- I don't see any evidence of that in #908 -- he's obviously playing the "I'm sheeping MattP" card, which I still call null.beefycheese-
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I still think this Jacob wagon is not where we need to be right now -- there's just not enough there to me that screams scum over lazy/uninterested player, but IAI seems of even less substance.
@Majiffy -- I have no desire to self-meta so I'm not even going to bother arguing whatever soft attack you're trying to make against me. Otherwise whatever, I rarely have any fucking idea what to make of you. You're not being terribly opportunistic you're just generating tons of fucking noise.
AP is town, seems very likely he had no idea chkflip was dying. Bitmap was town too.
@AP -- do you really think Vifam and Matt are scum together? That seems horribly impossible.
I also don't like Vifam's 1475 or his relentless buddying of Matt (which is why I don't think they're scum together)
VOTE: Vifam
Uber's done a total 180 content-wise since yesterday. He can go back to null for now until I reread him.
Zab's probably town for 1509 alone; I certainly don't see a compelling case here.
Mollie is leaning town but in the past I've either 1) found her super towntelling early on or 2) been scum myself so I'm just relying on the appearance of attempting to peel away the game layers here. She's actually making more sense than usual to me.beefycheese-
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Uber wrote:Nice cop-out. Have you re-read me yet?
What exactly am I copping out of?
Uber wrote:What is the point of the list? Which is in effect in this game?
What are you even talking about?
VOTE: Uberninja
Uber's Vifam vote is fucking horrible and makes me rethink the entire wagon
And trying to tack on being useless as a reason for Vifam doesn't jive with what he thinks of Jacob
Also his PbP walls are just a license to take shit out of contextbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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AP wrote:@Bork: Wouldn't say you are 'working hard' to justify a Mollie town read, but its kind of a weak reason. Mollie's post was just a short pbpa jab. I think Mollie is town, but that post in particular was just kind of neutral. I dunno.
I (obviously) don't agree. I think it was a pretty good combo of calling UN on inconsistencies and making some useful negative connections based on that and it doesn't seem faked.
I also echo Majiffy's question above. Uber's just taking indiscriminate potshots at people via difficult to follow PbP walls and seeing what sticks.beefycheese-
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UN wrote:
Vifam is an alright choice, but if we're playing to win here, Majiffy should die, because his reads make no fucking sense and also because of his epic push to get Underachivers lynched on Day 1 even though it was obvious as fuck that they were town, and even MORE so in hindsight?
Are you fucking serious you were practically calling them scum with molliebeefycheese-
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Attempting to calm down.
Here:
TUA (was in response to me I think):
" In post 1067, TheUnderachivers wrote:So you don't think I'm scummy for going for Josh but....I'm still scum? The hell? Its a 21 player game and there are gonna be like 5-6 scum. I don't see why my suspecting multiple suspects is "bad". Casting a wider net is more likely to hit scum. Unless you are scum and you know that I'm off there's no reason to attack me for suspecting others. So its like your voting me for the sake of voting? Was my town read on you wrong?"
Your response:
"The way this post is worded reminds me of how I've seen scum act before.
They bargain with their own town reads and say "okay I guess my town read on you was wrong" when people say things they don't like. And the reason this is significant is because scum attach more inherent value to appearing town, than townies do. So they use it as a bartering chip, and feel like it will be a magic bullet. But it's not, because townies aren't trying to look town. They're trying to find scum.
TheUnderachivers goes way up on the scumdar."
Equate this to obvtown -- I got no impression that you thought that from your ISO at any point.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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Anyway
From the stuff UN linked he's really at best soft-defending TUA (even TUA themselves point this out) and this is why I thought that a TUA scumflip would be a slam dunk UN scumflip. Ultimately I retract the argument that you were calling TUA scum.
The stuff I said today about UN's jump on the Vifam wagon I stand behind and I'm not going to back down just because he's being mean to me.
@AP -- I had a townread on Zab on D1 otherwise all those players are pretty much low fliers to me (except Matt but he seems to be on the drugs since D2)beefycheese-
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penguin wrote:UberNinja's willingness to cop to misinterpreting Vifam's grammar thing makes me think the former is town, although I don't see that I was unreasonable in asking UberNinja to back up his original statement. If he'd come back telling me to check out any/all of Vifam's games to see such a tell in action, I'd have tracked it/them down, but given that Vifam seems to have around 50 games, and I'd think if some straightforward tell had existed in all of them he'd have adjusted accordingly, I don't think it was unreasonable to ask UberNinja to back up the point originally.
The point was objectively a bad point and I don't like that you're humoring it.beefycheese-
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Rev wrote:I'm thinking pidgeon is town, just because he's putting his neck on the block with his push against me. It's beyong OMGUS, he actually thinks I'm scum. He's wrong, but if he's scum, he doesn't think I'm scum. I think he's sincere in his belief. So yeah, I'm wrong about pidgeon it seems. But mhork jumps on without a care, bork and moz are preparing to. There's scum here.
Also explain this more -- how is his neck on the chopping block exactly if he's wrong?beefycheese-
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In post 2012, TheReverend wrote:Because I was naming him as a scum read and then he's all OMG rev is scum 100%... that's gonna bring him a ton of heat when I flip town.
I think this is a bit naive, but fine.
Rev wrote:Yeah, it's bollocks.
Opinion noted. I'm still gonna read it.beefycheese-
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In post 2066, pirate mollie wrote:In post 2063, MattP wrote:WHY DO YOU THINK IVE BEEN SO DEADSET ON IAI ALL DAY THOUGH
OBVIOUSLY I HAD SOME REASON TO BE AN OBSTINATE PRICK WITH LIL TO NO REASONING
you were deadset on IaI on d1
how do you know they have a gun? I am confused, I have never come across your role before. when did you say you were a hider.
He did say he was a hider earlier, but I thought he was trolling just like all the other things he/boner police fakeclaimed beginning of game.beefycheese-
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I have no idea what to make of Matt, but it seems rather unlikely he knew this claim was coming, so...I don't get the wagon on him.
I didn't think Mollie was gonna go that way and I honestly don't think that wagon's gonna gain any traction.
Mozamis wrote:If you believe he is the cop, why not follow the cop and vote Jacob?
Yeah this isn't what "follow the cop" means...you follow his results, not just because he's the cop. In that same vein, why aren't you following Mhork?
p-edit: ^^thatbeefycheese-
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In post 2750, MattP wrote:In post 2748, pirate mollie wrote:In post 2746, MattP wrote:PV, JS, UN, and penguin are my four scummiest remaining reads
PM, I didn't do anything to you. Don't tunnel vision me to tunnel vision me. First day phase you had me as surefire town. Maybe you should reread to see why without a guard up
you fake claimed in order to get IaI lynched you should be torched for that
Please don't "policy" this shit. My move made sense if I was reaction testing IAI. The chance IAI would have been cop was abysmally small and I didn't even consider it. I was trying to pressure IAI into a fakeclaim. If he was town he would have 1v1d me and said, "no, you're lying! I'm a VT so you didn't receive a gun read on me!". My move made perfect reaction test sense. I reaction test anyway as both alignments. In Game of the year I fakeclaimed daycop on scum and had them lynched because my read was so damn strong. You have no reason to be voting me other than you wanting to get back at me, which is antitown.
I agree with this post and his reasoning about IAI is why I didn't want to jump on Matt yesterday -- I don't think Matt knew he was outing a cop.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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I don't know what's with Jacob; it feels like he's been V/LA the whole week.
Vifam was planting the seeds for the AA wagon way before it ever got started (1615) -- I actually thought he was fairly vocal about it. It doesn't look like a bus attempt.
Mollie does that make penguin look townier to you? I, as usual, can't read her well.beefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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AP wrote: dislike you defending Vifam though when I view his behavior as dubious...He basically did exactly what I did in my one offsite game in which I rolled Mafia. We had a maf PR getting wagoned all D1 off an on and I keep saying it was an ok lynch, but voting elsewhere or trying to hunt other people.
Honestly? CSB. I dislike that you'd use a self-meta argument not only to 1) explain why I'm wrong but also 2) call me scummy for even making the assertionbeefycheese-
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borkjerfkin He/HimXenophileHe/Him
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