Mafia 54: TGFKA Moses in Egypt - Game over!

[Yosarian2]

You're better than this, Thok.

And you're STILL sucking up to him?

[Yosarian2]

vote:channeldelibird

for being the third on a bandwagon, and then for apparently forgetting where his vote was.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah...I figured Hez was just kidding around, myself.

[Yosarian2]

I guess M-M is unconcerned about having 4 votes on him since it's like 12 to lynch, but I think I'll keep the vote on him because it seems right.

FoS: Klebian

Only scum need to make reasons for random votes.

Well, perhaps, but when a person has a random vote on a bandwagon, I'm happy to hear them explain why they're chosing to leave their vote there.

[Yosarian2]

It's not a bandwagon, it's 4 people with 12 to lynch. MM wouldn't really care about 4 votes as he knows it's random, it's not like he's in pressure of a lynch

(shrug) No, it's not really a bandwagon yet, or at best it's a mostly meaningless random bandwagon. However, if we move past the random stage, and there are still 4 votes on him, then I would want people who had their votes on him to explain why.

In other words, every time you choose to keep your vote where it is, you are making a decision, just as much as you make a decision in moving your vote there in the first place. I like to see people explain their decisions.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...anyone else notice this?

The Third Vote Count

4 - Machiavellian-Mafia (Vaughn, klebian, Cogito Ergo Sum, Twomz)
2 - Yosarian2 (MrBuddyLee, Machiavellian-Mafia)
2 - vikingfan (ShadowLurker, Thoth)
1 - MrBuddyLee (Glork)
1 - Mastermind of Sin (three word name)
1 - Vaughn (kirbyphreak)
1 - ShadowLurker (HezLucky)
1 - Cogito Ergo Sum (Thok)
1 - ChannelDelibird (Yosarian2)
1 - three word name (ubertimmy)

not voting: Mastermind of Sin, Bogre, ChannelDelibird, vikingfan, armlx, creampuffeater
not confirmed: Rosso Carne

With 22 alive it is 12 to lynch!

Once everyone confirms, you'll get a tentative three-week deadline.

I'll keep track of votes for extension.

The Fourth Vote Count

4 - Machiavellian-Mafia (Vaughn, klebian, Cogito Ergo Sum, Twomz)
3 - three word name (ubertimmy, HezLucky, vikingfan)
2 - vikingfan (ShadowLurker, Thoth)
2 - Cogito Ergo Sum (Thok, Mastermind of Sin)
1 - Yosarian2 (MrBuddyLee)
1 - MrBuddyLee (Glork)
1 - Mastermind of Sin (three word name)
1 - Vaughn (kirbyphreak)
1 - ChannelDelibird (Yosarian2)
1 - Glork (creampuffeater)
1 - Twomz (armlx)
1 - klebian (Machiavellian-Mafia)

not voting: Bogre, ChannelDelibird, Rosso Carne

With 22 alive it is 12 to lynch!

Now that everyone's here, there's a tentative deadline for

Tuesday, September 12th

, afternoonish central time.

This info is in the OP also. I'll keep track of votes for extension.

In general I believe this will be the automatic prod policy: On Mondays I'll prod everyone whose last post was the previous Monday or earlier.

Looks like Rosso Carne confirmed yesterday, but he still has not posted in this thread even once, even though he posted in several other threads yesterday. I don't like that.

unvote:channelDeibird

vote:Rosso Carne

[Yosarian2]

Well, when someone doesn't post for a real long time, and i don't see them outside the thread, i get worried. How would I know if some random person on the internet was injured in a car accident? or killed? If someone suddenly stops posting w/o giving a reason I worry. Lurking is different from "not posting at all". But, since he obviously sent kelly a /confirm or something, I don't guess he's dead or anything. (most likely he's just busy, or lost his internet).

That's bullshit. Yosarian said that

ROSSO CARNE HAS CONFIRMED AND POSTED ELSEWHERE ON THE SITE

. There's nothing to be worried about... only something about which to be suspicious.

Although, to be fair, I just noticed that one of those posts he made in a different game that day said that he just got back from moving and didn't have much time that day. Still, that was a few days ago now, and we're still waiting to hear from him.

[Yosarian2]

Are you people currently bandwagoning ChannelDelibird just because he got Twomz and Tamuz severly confused, or is there more? Because if that's all there is, that makes little sense; I don't think I've ever seen a game with either of them where someone didn't get them confused at some point, although perhaps not as completly as CDB did.

[Yosarian2]

Are you people currently bandwagoning ChannelDelibird just because he got Twomz and Tamuz severly confused, or is there more?

Yos, CDB first follows Rosso's statement of Twomz is scum by voting Twomz, then CDB unvotes and votes Tamuz (who isn't even in the game) after CPE threw an FOS at CDB. Then CDB revotes Twomz after Thok caught CDB's slip. So I think there is more to it than just an "honest mistake".

Right. He got REALLY confused, thought it was a game where both Twomz and Tamuz were in it and thought he had gotten them confused, votes for someone who's not in the game and then changes it back once his mistake is pointed out to him.

Again, I've voted Tamuz when I meant to say Twomz, and vice versa. It is confusing. Granted that he got exceptionally confused, seems to have gotten this confused with a game where they were both playing and then gotten confused over which one he was voting for when there wasn't even anything to be confused about. Still, it just looks to me like an amusing mistake. CDB might be town and he might be scum; I was suspicious of him myself earlier in the game; but to say that he's scum just because he got completly confused on which and how many of the T____z twins were in this game makes no sense. Why do you think that's a mistake scum's more likely to make then town?

[Yosarian2]

So...what? You think it was all a ploy of CDB in order to make it look like he was voting Twomz without actually doing so?

I'm willing to see it as a mistake because I can't possibly see it as a scum gambit. It dosn't make any sense as a scum gambit. What would he stand to gain? And I'm not sure how making that kind of mistake is a scum tell, although if someone's willing to explain that I'll listen.

MoS is the person that I think is most likely to be scum right now, usually when I offer myself up for lynch, i'll point out either the highest vote count person and/or the person I think is most likely scum as the other suspect(s). Is that ok w/ you that I listed the person I think is most scummy on my list of people I think we should lynch?

Um, SL just asked you why you're suspicious of MOS, and you didn't answer it at all. Why are you suspicious of MOS?

[Yosarian2]

I'm waiting for Twomz to answer my question.

[Yosarian2]

While I'm waiting, I will say though that that last post by armlx does not quite fill me with confidence.

[Yosarian2]

General note: Claims are bad for the town this game. I never want to see a townie claim this game, at all, unless we're doing a late-game mass claim. If anyone ever claims townie, I'll vote for them on the spot. Also, power roles should only claim when absolutly necessary, and perhaps not even then, as there's no docs.

That's not to say that Twomz should or shouldn't claim; that's up to him.

[Yosarian2]

General note: Claims are bad for the town this game. I never want to see a townie claim this game, at all, unless we're doing a late-game mass claim. If anyone ever claims townie, I'll vote for them on the spot. Also, power roles should only claim when absolutly necessary, and perhaps not even then, as there's no docs.

That's not to say that Twomz should or shouldn't claim; that's up to him.

...do you mean claims in general, or un(der)pressured claims?

(shrug) It depends. Let's say that I wouldn't claim in this game unless I was, say, 75% sure I'd get lynched in the very near future if I didn't claim, and I was also sure that my claim would stop my lynch. Otherwise, I'd do my best to just talk my way out of it if I could. It's better for a power-role to claim then to get lynched, sure, but it's not all that much better. And there's absolutly no advantage at all to a townie claiming in this game, unless we're in some kind of late-game situation where we know there's only 2 townies left or something like that.

Of course, if are a power role, and you're sure you'll get lynched if you don't claim, you should probably claim.

[Yosarian2]

If anyone ever claims townie, I'll vote for them on the spot.

unvote

vote:twomz

Lynch -1 now.

[Yosarian2]

vote:armlx

[Yosarian2]

Huh...no reaction to my armlx vote at all, huh?

To be clear, the reason I am voting armlx was because I didn't like the feel of his post when he jumped on the Twomz wagon. I didn't like it yesterday, and now that we know Twomz was town I like it even less.

[Yosarian2]

The opposite scumteam would have discussed who was likely to be a good crosskill, and with four opinions weighing in, an established, experienced player's word would definitely carry more weight. BJ's the kind of player who could definitely convince his team to off someone he thought was scum.

But would a scumteam have tried to pick off opposing scum this early, insted of hunting for power roles?

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, this klebian bandwagon seems a bit odd to me, as no one has actually made much of an accusation against him except a really weak possible link with MOS, but I will say that none of his klebian's posts have really given me any reason to think he's pro-town.

[Yosarian2]

Wait, what do you mean BabyJ is himself? Is it with the fact that he posts nothing but votes with no reasoning?

Yeah, he often does that, including when he's pro-town. People have come to expect it from him.

[Yosarian2]

My defense has been already been given. I have nothing more to add other than I see no reason why 3-5 people have posted something like "Yay, bandwagon, vote:klebian, hope he's scum!"

You have nothing more to add? That's not very helpful. Who do you suspect? If we're not going to lynch you, who do you think we should lynch?

[Yosarian2]

I don't really think that you can assume BJ killed MOS just because BJ had a good hunch about MOS yesterday. "He voted for scum, so he must be in the other scum group who killed him" dosn't really make any sense. I don't think the fact that MOS got killed likely has anything to do with BJ's alignment, one way or the other.

[Yosarian2]

I still want to hear

A. an actual case against klebian

and

B. actual content from klebien.

[Yosarian2]

Viking: BJ ALWAYS says that.

Does that make it acceptable? I don't think so. The fact that someone always acts scummy doesn't mean it's ok for him to do it in this game...

The fact that a certain person always acts a certain way means it's not scummy for him to act that way, unless it hurts the town, and BJ's agressive play can be very effective when he's pro-town.

[Yosarian2]

Agreed. I think the case against TWN is stronger then the case against klebian, and I might move my vote over there sometime soon if he does not start seriously trying to defend himself.

[Yosarian2]

I wasn't too excited about a klebian lynch before, but now that we know TWN was a warewolf, I'm seeing a possible connection.

I would like to see an actual case aganst me. so far all that I have seen is "he foses too much" and "his posts are scummy" and (my personal favorite) one line posts telling me to "post substanance"

about the FOSing: would you prefer it if those FOSes were votes? and that I was changing my vote every other day? are you saying that that is a better style of play? NO! it is not! i would get wagoned to death for vote hopping! FOSes are basically harmless in that they cant kill someone. no matter how many foses that I give they wont kill anyone. I could fos the same person one million times and they wouldnt die!

klebian is too close to a lynch

unvote

I made it -4 not -5 and I did it to make shure that kleb was not quicklynched

oh I see you thoucht that I wasnt voting for someone to begin with. right? I was voting for kleb but I just unvoted.

I will vote for someone once I re read the game

vote:klebian

[Yosarian2]

I still don't see a good case against klebian, plus the fact that vaughn hasn't even posted after I posted suspicions about him, makes me happy with my vote right now.

The point I was making was that TNN's really weak excuse for unvoting kelben ("he's too close to a lynch" when he wasn't at all close to a lynch) makes me wonder if the two of them are scum-buddies. It's not a terribly strong connection, but it's the only one I could find, and about the best thing the town could do today would be to lynch the last warewolf.

[Yosarian2]

I still don't see a good case against klebian, plus the fact that vaughn hasn't even posted after I posted suspicions about him, makes me happy with my vote right now.

The point I was making was that TNN's really weak excuse for unvoting kelben ("he's too close to a lynch" when he wasn't at all close to a lynch) makes me wonder if the two of them are scum-buddies. It's not a terribly strong connection, but it's the only one I could find, and about the best thing the town could do today would be to lynch the last warewolf.

Aren't there four werewolves, so two left?

(looks back at first post) Hmm, you seem to be right. Ok.

[Yosarian2]

vaughn just backpedalled at 4 votes.

Pretty sure thats a good scumtell.

How did vaughn "backpeddle"?

And when vaughn asked you that, you just said this:

you got all pissy about 4 votes.

Theresnot a presented case really besides you being scummy.

It's a bit ironic, but I think you just backpeddled about vaughn backpeddling.

[Yosarian2]

Well, that's a lynch.

Heh...didn't realize you were hammering, BJ?

[Yosarian2]

Yikes. Kind of forgot about this game.

I'll do a re-read of the rest of the game, hopefully tommorow, and see what links I can find with the scum we've nailed so far.

[Yosarian2]

Alright. After a re-read, I'm pretty happy with a

vote:klebian

. The other person who looks a little suspicious at the moment is CES.

[Yosarian2]

Awesome...I thought he was a warewolf.

Well, on to my next suspect.

vote:CES

[Yosarian2]

Seriously, people, take a look at CES's posts. It's just a series of votes with absolutly no logic at all behind any of them, and the timing and sequence of them also looks suspicious. He did vote for Vaughn, but he did so at a point in the game where I'd expect a fellow mafia member to thrown Vaughn under the bus.

[Yosarian2]

Thok: Are you saying it's a normal playstyle for CES to do nothing but post vote after vote with absoluly no other content whatsoever? He usually posts a little more real content then this, dosn't he? Eh, I guess I'll go take a look at some other games of his.

The arguments posted against CPE so far have been pretty weak; the only ones I've seen are "Yos defended him" (I defend people quite often, and I'm usually right when I do; you've played enough games with me to know that) and "he got confused about Twomz and Tamuz" (which I still think is a pretty stupid reason to lynch someone). Is there anything else against him?

Granted it's better to lynch a claimed vanillia at this point of the game then a no-lynch, if that's what it comes down to at deadline, and I'll vote for it if I have to in order to ensure a lynch, but I'd really much rather see someone post a decent argument against him here.

Anyway, why am I suddenly on your list of suspects, Thok?

[Yosarian2]

Thok: Are you saying it's a normal playstyle for CES to do nothing but post vote after vote with absoluly no other content whatsoever? He usually posts a little more real content then this, dosn't he? Eh, I guess I'll go take a look at some other games of his.

The arguments posted against CPE so far have been pretty weak; the only ones I've seen are "Yos defended him" (I defend people quite often, and I'm usually right when I do; you've played enough games with me to know that) and "he got confused about Twomz and Tamuz" (which I still think is a pretty stupid reason to lynch someone). Is there anything else against him?

Granted it's better to lynch a claimed vanillia at this point of the game then a no-lynch, if that's what it comes down to at deadline, and I'll vote for it if I have to in order to ensure a lynch, but I'd really much rather see someone post a decent argument against him here.

Anyway, why am I suddenly on your list of suspects, Thok?

[Yosarian2]

I agree CPE has been useless, and therefore not a bad lynch, but I think I'll stick to

vote:CES

[Yosarian2]

Yesterday, I voted you because you had done nothing all game but blindly bandwagon with no reasons behind any of your votes, CES, and what's the first thing you do today? Blindly bandwagon without giving a reason.

So why shouldn't I vote you?

[Yosarian2]

Why isn't it a "real suspicion"? Because it's you?

I don't like the timing of your votes or the lack of content of your posts. Both make me suspicious, and the way you're trying to brush off my attack with meaningless posts like the above dosn't help. If you want to convince me that someone's a better lynch then you are today, you're going to have to actually, you know, try and convince me.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, what do you think of CES's voting record?

I don't like most of his voting record. One minor point in his favor is the fact that he voted for Vaughn, in post 395. However, it was the 9th vote, at a time when it was already pretty clear Vaughn was going to get lynched, and he didn't give any reasons for it, all of which are often signs that someone is trying to make sure he's on the bandwagon of his scumbuddy.

Other then that, though, my impression is that he just jumped from bandwagon to bandwagon, supporting whatever looked like it was going to result in a lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...good point, SL. CPE, want to clarify your reasons for voting CES, or were you just trying to support lynching someone who is not you?

[Yosarian2]

Seer and Miriam can't do much at this point, nor can the townies.

Well, at least they're both confirmed innocents, because of the state of the game. If we can get more then half the town remaining to be confirmed innocents, we should win. And the cop should already have, what, 4 investigations?

[Yosarian2]

vote: Hez

Interesting move so close to the deadline, MrBuddyLee.

[Yosarian2]

Ok; the Pharoh is a confirmed innocent, as we know there must be 1 and only 1 Pharoh in the game. Unless there is a counterclaim,

everyone

need to unvote creampuffeater and vote someone else.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, we've got to get some activity going here. We've only got 4 days until deadline, and the person who would currently be lynched is apparently one of our confirmed good guys (again, unless he gets counterclaimed).

We need to see everyone post before the end of the day, both to change their votes and to make sure we don't get a counterclaim.

Meanwhile, I'm going to go back and do a re-read, see if I can find anything else to comment on. Let's see if we can get some good discussion going here before the deadline, ok?

[Yosarian2]

After a re-read, some thoughts.

People who look to me like they're more likely to be good guys then mafia due to their behavior on the Vaughn bandwagon:

Armlx

MM

Rosso


People who look like probable good guys for other reasons:

CPE (claim)

Shadowlurker (His early defense of channeldaybird looks pro-town-ish to me, and his general scum-hunting and participation all game gives me kind of a pro-town feeling about him)

People I'm not sure about (both voted for Vaughn, but neither really pushed his wagon, or gave me any other reason to trust them):

Vikingfan

Kirby


People I wouldn't mind seeing lynched:
CES: Reasons already stated.

Hezlucky: Totally ignored the whole Vaughn wagon. Don't like his participation in general.

Ubertimmy: Also ignored the Vaughn wagon. Very little participation. I also don't like this, one of only 2 posts he's made in the past month.

Vote: Channel Delibird

I'm down with that

At this point, I'd be happy with lynching any of those three people.

[Yosarian2]

Interesting move so close to the deadline, MrBuddyLee.

So you don't find Hez scummy, Yos. Interesting, what about his post history gives you confidence?

CPE and CES aren't scummy in my eyes, so I went out and found me some real scum. There were a few decent options to choose from...

I think we should use the Pharoah's ability and lynch two today, since he'll probably die tonight.[/quote]

Ah, simulpost.

Yeah, like I just said, I do find Hez scummy. It just seemed wierd to me for you to put 1 vote on someone without any other votes on them, so close to a deadline, without giving any reasons for your vote. Nothing wrong with starting a new bandwagon, but I'd expect that with time limitations that if you wanted Hez lynched now you'd really be trying to convince people.

I also agree that we should do the double lynch today. I'd be happy with lynching any two of the three people on my suspect list.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure I'm buying this...

There is 1

Pharaoh

:

You are the

Pharaoh

. Once in the game, you may grant the town a second lynch opportunity for that day. You use this ability by PMing the mod during the day, any time prior to the lynch scene, specifying that you want to use your ability. The town will not learn of the extended day until the lynch scene is posted.

You win when all mafia and werewolves are dead, and at least one pro-town player is still alive.

Mod: you said in your third post that the Pharaoh could use his ability "any time prior to the lynch scene". Was that correct?

[Yosarian2]

mod clarification does not equal what KC said...I'm almost inclined to say maybe don't have the pharaoh counterclaim and lynch cpe and use the pharaoh tomorrow. Is this worth the gamble?

That sounds like a good idea.

[Yosarian2]

mod clarification does not equal what KC said...I'm almost inclined to say maybe don't have the pharaoh counterclaim and lynch cpe and use the pharaoh tomorrow. Is this worth the gamble?

That sounds like a good idea.

Actually, wait, no.

Creampuffeater is either wrong or lying (almost certanly lying); Pharoh can use ability right now.

So I think we get a counterclaim now, the real Pharoh uses his ability now, and then we lynch Creampuffeater.

Once we get a counterclaim (and I'm thinking we probably will), I'll move my vote to creampuffeater. But we don't want to end the day before the real Pharoh shows up, because then we don't get the double lynch today, and I think we want to.

[Yosarian2]

How about this. Instead of outting a possible Pharoh, we tell CPE to use his power, and then we lynch somebody else. If there is a double lynch, we confirm CPE, if there isn't, we know CPE was lying and lynch him tommorow without outting the real pharoh.

I don't see any reason for that.

If someone else is the pharoh, they counterclaim, use their ability, then we lynch CPE and someone else. Simple. We have several good suspects now, and I don't seen any major cost in outing a pharoh if we're going to use the one shot ability now, especally if we'd be guarenteed to lynch at least one mafia (and possibly two) in the process.

If no one counterclaims, then we can assume CPE was telling the truth, and he uses his ability and we lynch two other people.

Really, why mess around at this point?

[Yosarian2]

If I remember correctly, I think the last thing I was saying was that I'd be happy lynching either hezlucky or CES.

[Yosarian2]

Yes, you attacked me because I attacked you without using any logic, responding in any way to any of the points made against you, or giving any reason why you shouldn't be lynched based on your voting record and posting record.

[Yosarian2]

Right. No ending the day until CPE confirms that he has used his ability (he may have already said so, but I don't remember).

And (daja-vu) if no one's going to counterclaim CPE, then those people voting for him should unvote him (again, in some cases) and vote someone else. We've still got a deadline.

[Yosarian2]

Yup. Unless someone counters it, HezLucky is cleared.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2, I explained why what you're doing is a very beneficial strategy for scum(sort of, anyhow). You really might as well confess.

This is about as convincing as your "you're better then this" defense from earlier in the game.

If you're not scum, and I really doubt that, then you have to try to convince those of us voting for you that you're not scum. The "I'm an easy lynch target so everyone voting for me is scum" defense you're trying to use is complete BS. If you look scummy and act scummy, pro-town people will attack you and vote for you.

[Yosarian2]

MBL, Yosarian2 has been focussing on me for several days now. He's using his "lynch CES-agenda" to avoid having to contribute as much as he normally does. Also, apparently, as shown by Himalayan(and Yos was on my lynch that game), if you go after me for long enough, I'll eventually be lynched, simply because everyone thinks I'm scummy anyhow.

I've hardly been ignoring everyone but you. I did a very detailed analysis of everyone in the game a few pages ago, and explain exactally what my list of suspects was and why. Now that HezLucky is probably cleared, the only people left in my "very suspicious" catagory are you and ubertimmy. And you haven't given any reason to trust you yet.

In any case, if you remember, I was town in Himalayan. If you choose to act scummy, then pro-town people will vote for you, so it's silly to attack me just because I'm attacking you.

[Yosarian2]

kirby, unless you or someone else is counterclaiming him, Hez is basically 100% cleared now.

[Yosarian2]

I'm here.

im behind any armlx or kirby wagon

Looking back at the earlier list I posted in the thread, kirby was one of the people I wouldn't really mind lynching, but armlx had struck me as most likely pro-town based on his action on the Vaughn wagon. I'll probably have to do a re-read of that time period at least before I can say anything new on that.

On the other hand, I still see no reason to not lynch CES.

[Yosarian2]

People also we need some posting to get rid of the deadline.

Agreed. Anyone who dosn't post before the deadline needs to die.

And remember, we can't rely on the 50% thing to save us this game. We can get the last couple of scum by process of elimination I think, but not if we accidently no-lynch. So we need to make sure we get 7 votes on SOMEONE in the 3 or 4 days we have left before deadline.

[Yosarian2]

Yos-stood out to me from the beginning, worried about bandwagons when it was still in the random phase (kinda silly), also declared he would lynch any claimed townies (when there were 9 townies in the game. There are still 5, so I hope he dropped that policy

"worried about bandwagons when it was still in the random phase"? What does that mean?

There is no "random phase". Anything and everything anyone does in the game is fair game for anyone trying to figure people out and find scum. And I hardly see where I was "worried about bandwagons" in any case.

As for the second part of your post, I in fact defended CDB, a claimed townie, yesterday, and if people had listened to me we could have avoided a mislynch. I still think that claiming vanillia townie in this game is an absolutly unhelpful, anti-town act, and strongly discourage anyone from doing so, but of course I'm never going to lynch someone if I think they actually are town.

[Yosarian2]

If you're going to just still repeating the same thing over and over again without any actual attempt to defend yourself or give any logical reason to attack anyone else, CES, then so will I.

This is about as convincing as your "you're better then this" defense from earlier in the game.

If you're not scum, and I really doubt that, then you have to try to convince those of us voting for you that you're not scum. The "I'm an easy lynch target so everyone voting for me is scum" defense you're trying to use is complete BS. If you look scummy and act scummy, pro-town people will attack you and vote for you.

[Yosarian2]

But I'll be confirmed innocent in death! Seriously. I don't mind dying, but I'm taking you with me(hopefully). I'm certain of your guilt.

So useless.

Look, if you're town, you need to try to convince us of that. That's part of the duty of every good guy. And if you think someone is scum, you need to try to convince us of that. If you really think I'm scum, you need to actually make an argument or something. You'd be wrong, but at least that would get some discussion going. This "Yos is scum and you'll all see once I'm dead" BS is either a really lame attempt on your part to play mind games with us if you're scum, or it's both wrong and totally useless if you're town. Either way, it won't accomplish anything; no matter what your alighnment is, no one is going to listen to you if you don't make an argument better then "Yos is scum because he's attacking me and he must know I get lynched a lot".

[Yosarian2]

Ok.

unvote:CES

vote:Primate

, as Ubertimmy has long been one of my top suspects. Kirby would be fine by me as well. At this point, if needed to ensure a lynch, I'd vote anyone who's not confirmed.

Everyone needs to get in here and move their vote NOW. We need 7 votes on someone other then CES or one of the other confirmed good guys, and we've got no time.

Confirmed good guys:

MM (unless someone counterclaims)
CPE
Hez
Yos
CES

[Yosarian2]

We don't need to act as fast as possible, we just need to act within a week. I would like to wait for Primate to respond before placing a vote on him. Simple as that.

Well, not quite a week; 4 days. Actually, it's after midnight now, so less then that.

I agree we need to hear from primate, but if he dosn't post in the next day or two we're going to have to pile some more votes on and get ready lynch him anyway. Time is limited here.

[Yosarian2]

If Primate hasn't posted by Wednesday night, then I'll worry about voting. I suggest no more votes are placed on him til then though.

I wouldn't wait quite that long. I would be happier if we got him closer to a lynch, so that if only a few pro-town people are around the day of the deadline they can put together a lynch in a hurry. I do agree we want him to post before we lynch him, but there's nothing wrong with putting him to around lynch -2 before that.

Also, if you really don't want to push Primate closer to a lynch at the moment, then you should put your vote on your #2 suspect. After all, if Primate does post and somehow manages to convince us that we shouldn't lynch him, we won't have much time to put together a second bandwagon, especally as we need a full 7 vote majorty for a lynch.

[Yosarian2]

I'm here.

Interesting plan, Primate.

[Yosarian2]

Not really a problem, MBL.

Let's say the hider claims today and targets an unconfirmed, and the cop, MM, targets another unconfirmed. Sure, the scum could kill the unconfirmed and the hider at the same time, but only if they leave the cop alive; and if the hider and one of the unconfirmed die, but the cop lives and clears another unconfirmed, that gives us 6 confirmed (creampuffeater, Cogito Ergo Sum, Yosarian2, Machiavellian-Mafia, HezLucky, and whoever the cop confirms).

It really puts the scum in a lose-lose position, I think. Either they kill the hider, or they kill the cop; and either way we should win.

[Yosarian2]

Eh, I'm thinking that if Primate's not scum, Mariyta's not either, or else she would have jumped on his bandwagon when we were all pushing her to do so before the most recent crash.

Primate's plan is good, and I don't really think he's scum either at this point.

unvote:primate

I'm leaning towards lynching either Kirby or Rosso. If Rosso dosn't return soon, mise well lynch him just because replacements are going to be impossible to find right now.

[Yosarian2]

vote:kirby

The key is, though, lynching one of the unconfirmed, so even though I don't really think Miri is scum I'll be willing to lynch her if I have to. If we lynch basically any unconfirmed we should win, so let's just not do something dumb and have a no-lynch, mmmk? Remember we still need a full 7 votes to lynch, and as I don't think we have everyone back yet that might not be as easy as it sounds.

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...dosn't look good for primate either, actually, as Mari seemed very reluctent to vote Primate. Not a solid connection, but it makes me wonder.

[Yosarian2]

If we're going to lynch Kirby, we need to make sure we wait until after Vikingfan announces who he's hiding with, as his last comment on the subject was that he was going to hide with Kirby.

And we definatly want vikingfan to hide, as there's only one scum left.

[Yosarian2]

Ha, nice try, scum. Looks like they tried to frame me up by killing Miriam as she targeted me.

M-M, who do we kill?

You are the Miriam, a hider. Every night you may choose to hide with another person. You cannot be the target of a nightkill when you do this. However, if you hide with mafia or a werewolf, you die. Also, if the person you hide with is the target of a nightkill, they kill you too.

You win when all mafia and werewolves are dead, and at least one pro-town player is still alive.

I don't think that works, MBL. If the Miriam hid with you, and you were not scum, and you were not nightkilled, then the Miriam should have been nightkill proof. If he hid with a good guy who didn't die, he wouldn't have died. Either you're scum, or else he forgot to send his choice in, or changed his mind and hid with someone else/hid with no one after saying he was going to hide with you. Which would be an incredibly stupid thing for him to do, so soon after saying he was going to hide with you.

My best guess is that you're the scum, you saw that he was going to target you, and so you chose not to kill in the hopes that you wouldn't look as bad that way.

vote:MBL

Let's not finish him off until we hear from the cop, just in case something wierd happened, but I think we've just won.

[Yosarian2]

Woo! We win.

unvote

,

vote:Rosso

[Yosarian2]

@Yos-apologies. I thought your attack on armlx suggested that you were the cop. Once it seemed like you weren't the cop, I thought you were scum trying to get the Moses to waste a kill on a townie.

I'll have more Moses commentary in a bit.

Ah, I see. No, it was just an attempt to get a rection out of someone who I thought was scummy; I often start off with a vote but no explination in order to fish for reactions both from the target and from others.

In terms of design: I greatly underestimated the power of a dayvig, even with the limitation I gave it. Moses was FAR more powerful than Pharaoh. I also should have made scum less vulnerable to each other, either through some unnk or protection mechanism, or by simply having more scum.

I don't think Moses was unbalanced; Thok played the role very well with great skill and luck, and even so it's just amazing he killed so many times and never took out a good guy.