Mafia 53: A Bit Out Of The Norm - Abandoned!

[klebian]

Vote Thestatusquo for a hilarious avatar.

[klebian]

pretty sure you're full of crap.

qft

[klebian]

Hmm. I have to read this topic again. I've been reading but nothing seems ot make any sense...

[klebian]

Yeah, I also think that rathyr is the scum we AREN'T looking for.

[klebian]

LOL at Eon's post.

If you really think I am goo then just designate a single player to test me in a fashion that is

obvious to the whole game whether it worked or not.

Hello!

Is that possible? If you ARE goo, then the person who tested you would be put in a trap and thus he himself would be lynched as well. No one wants to run the risk of becoming goo, because then they can't perform night actions in the future (actually, I'd like to be sure I'm correct here --does a goo lose all previous powers?). The testing idea wouldn't really work in this case.

I'm not sure how strong nexus is that we'd risk him being scum/goo to save him.

[klebian]

Fine, M-M, explain how to test rathyr without running the risk of the tester becoming goo.

[klebian]

Mod:
-Does a player lose all abilities when becoming Green Goo?
-Does a player lose all abilities when becoming Black Goo?

[klebian]

LYNCH ME COME ON PEOPLE YOU WILL GET FREE COOKIES

rofl

this is pretty fun(ny) to read.

unvote, vote: Eon

[klebian]

Hmm, while looking for the last votecount (WTF Page 8???), I came across this nice series of posts:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 376#448376

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 265#449265

OK, yeah, so the difference between the first one and 2nd one is that rathyr claimed between them, but eon had a pretty strong change of heart...

[klebian]

Look, the problem is, he fails to understand that rathyr MIGHT HAVE FALSE CLAIMED, and thus is suspicious of the people who are considering that option.

[klebian]

At 16 to lynch, there is absolutely no way that's a lynch.

[klebian]

pretty sure your count (on eon, at least) was right.

[klebian]

I am willing to claim at this point to confirm rathyr tonight if wanted.

[klebian]

Hmm. Not sure what all I should tell, but I'll say that at least half your post doesn't apply.

[klebian]

Yo. Rathyr's response to tss seems quite valid.

[klebian]

people I don't recall seeing much from

4. HurriKaty
8. Vaughn
9. ubertimmy
14. TheEyeOfMordor
19. Der Hammer
24. Coron
25. HezLucky
28. Colonel Kurtz


Did I miss anyone?

Hurrikaty = SL

[klebian]

I'd like to comment on a few different things.

I thought of a possible way Rathyr might be confirmed safely. It does, however, require that there be both a Serial Killer and Psychiatrist in the game.

Note: This is not a request for a Psychiatrist to claim at this time.

(If anybody wants to claim SK, feel free. )

Day 1:

SK and Psychiatrist claim.

Night 1:

SK

and nobody else

targets Rathyr. Psychiatrist

does not

target SK.
At this point one of the following things might happen.
1. Rathyr is a Nexus, and a random person dies. This is fine; without any such plan a random person would die anyway. Rathyr is confirmed and we move on to Stage 2.
2. Rathyr is a Goo. The kill will not be redirected. Either he will die and be revealed as Goo, or the attempted night action will simply evanesce. If there is no Serial Kil, or if Rathyr dies as Goo, we lynch the Serial Killer (and Rathyr if it is still necessary) on suspicion of gooification and our goo problems are solved.
3. Rathyr is something else. Rathyr will die, be revealed as non-Goo, and we move on to Stage 2.
Stage 2:

Day 2:

We lynch someone OTHER THAN the SK.

Night 2:

The Psychiatrist cures the Serial Killer, who is now confirmed non-goo.

I think the town gets out of this a spare doctor after Night 2; the SK gets a much improved chance of winning; Rathyr gets cleared if he's telling the truth. The only real loser I see from this is the Goo.

The problem is, as c_d kinda pointed out, the SK is running the risk of becoming goo and the town finding out, and losing. He's not actually gaining much by claiming and hoping he'll become town.

I did a complete reread.

About Rathyr:
I still don't like the way he has handled this game so far, and I think his agressiveness and scattershot tactics have done more in the ways of confusing the town and not much in the ways of actually flushing out scum. Nevertheless, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, since there are indeed ways to test his claim. There's one thing I'd like him to explain though, and that is his post #256 (after Yos asked the mod what win condition a neutral Nexus would have). Smashy brought it up before, but you neglected to answer, so here it is again:

Yeah, I wonder too. Mod?

Surely you know your own (supposedly town) win condition and there is no reason to believe that there is

another

Nexus around, so why the curiosity? This struck me as odd from someone who seemed otherwise very informed about his claimed role.

Wow, that's a good point. A VERY good point...

Heh you did analyse things.
Im slowly begin to think, Rathyr, he told he is Nexus, role which can only be Neutral or Town. And after he posted that I believed him, but then people began to point fingers at me and Rathyr jumped on that right away. But people dont you think that he could... lie about his role. Nexus cant be Mafia and by telling that he got attention off himself. I want to remember past

Rathyr did you forget moment when you were -5 to lynch? Do you remember why? I will remind you because people thought you are scummy and finaly when people found NEW suspect [ME]. After people began to vote against me you joined them and your reason to vote against me was "My stupidity" Since moment you voted against me i see my name in every POST YOU DO . "Why is he alive", "Lets Lynch him finaly".

OK OK.

I guess I ought to claim now, since roles in this game are so important.

I'm the "Nexus". Pro-town, every time I get night targeted, the target is randomly re-chosen.

Here is why I think you should not lynch me based on my claim:

1. I'm going to go with the "Let me live but investigate me tonight" noobie argument, but a little differently this time. I say, don't lynch me, but instead, one of you with a (Preferably non-lethal) night ability should target me tonight.

This will prove my innocence because the ability will be redirected to someone else.

2. Now, the experienced players here will know that the standard "Investigate me" argument is fundamentally flawed, because

a. It wastes a cop investigation when you could just lynch the guy to discover his alignment.

and

b. Even if he does turn out to be innocent, that doesn't help the town very much and the scum have a perfect target for the next night.


However, with my role, both of these problems are eliminated, thus:

a. Who ever investigates me or whatever will not have wasted his ability, as my nexus power will redirect it to someone else, simultaneously proving my innocence

and

doing whatever their ability does to someone else. Two birds with one stone, as they say.

and

b. When I am a proven innocent, I will be an amazing boon to the town. A proven townie who

cannot be night killed.

That's right. I cannot be night killed. There are two reasons for this. 1, any attempt to kill me will be randomly redirected, admittedly it could possibly redirect to me, but the chances of that are small, and that problem is covered by 2, no scum will try to kill me because the chance that his kill power would be redirected to him or one of his scum buddies is higher than the chance that it would redirect to me. Any scum that targets me will run the risk of getting killed by himself.

After I have been proven innocent, I will be a great help to the town as a near-immortal, untainted townie.



OK? Think about it for a bit; before you kill off a great boon to the town.

The scum in this game are exceptionally powerful

, but then, so are we. I'd guess that everyone in this game has a power.

By telling your role, and reasons "WHY IS KEEPING YOU" good idea people decided to unvote you. Of course, since you told how helpful will you be in this game if you wont get lynched,but as TheStatusQuo told there could be many mafia roles that could fix that.
You say IF COP CHECKS YOU THAT WILL BE WASTE OF TURN

It wastes a cop investigation when you could just lynch the guy to discover his alignment

But then you say

When I am a proven innocent, I will be an amazing boon to the town. A proven townie who

cannot be night killed.

That's right.

So you tell cop not to check you because it wastes turn and then you say when you are proven innocent. And how will you be proven innocent?

And i remember someone told "Eon says TSQ and Rathyr are connected"...umm i re read everything and in start they did attack each other. Soo they cant be connected of course if it wasnt theater.

Nice misquote. The second quote is invalid, because you decided not to take it in context:

2. Now, the experienced players here will know that the standard "Investigate me" argument is fundamentally flawed, because

a. It wastes a cop investigation when you could just lynch the guy to discover his alignment.

and

b. Even if he does turn out to be innocent, that doesn't help the town very much and the scum have a perfect target for the next night.


However, with my role, both of these problems are eliminated

He was saying that other people MAY SAY that it wastes a cop investigation, but then he countered that investigating him would actually clear 2 people, him, and the person that it was redirected to. Thus he would be proven innocent.

[klebian]

Are you referring to cadre when you say "he"?

[klebian]

Actually it seems like the only possibility for bringing people back from the dead is shaman or Evil priest (other than necromancer). Evil priest makes the person guilty, and shaman puts the person on a different team. That means there's a 50% chance he's definitely guilty, and we'd have to decide depending on his behavior yesterday whether, if he had changed teams, he would more likely be evil or innocent now.

In other news, Rathyr's as confirmed a nexus as possible (barring someone screwing with me)

[klebian]

I think we should probably just ask MBL to claim. Since there is so much controversy around it, it would be better to get information from MBL directly, then find a contradiction to his words later. At any point in the game he slips up, he's dead. As the game progresses, it would get increasingly difficult to fit his role to whatever circumstance that might come up.

Do you think Hez should claim then? Also, there is basically a guilty counterpart for every innocent reviving role in this game so he has a safe claim that is not confirmable.

Good point there.

[klebian]

2. There's prolly one or two pro-town killers in this game and about ten bad guys who can kill. The odds are 80% that I was killed by a bad guy. And I clearly said it

could

have been a cross-kill as far as you guys could tell. Mathematically speaking, however, I am now slightly less likely to be scum than the average person in this game because I was killed. Personally, I think a pro-town killer wouldn't have ganked me last night, but then again, people on this site never cease to amaze me.

Hmm. I'm going to think about this, then respond later, but I just want to say I'm not sure if the math is right in this situation.

[klebian]

Not wanting to put words in the town's mouth, but I'm surprised nobody wagoned me first thing this morning for my vocal defence of Eon yesterday.

After that performance, I don't have an awful lot I can say in my defence until you want a claim

Sorry for the double post. The above sounds like you are trying to draw our attention to your behavior from yesterday. You sound like you wish to be pressured into claiming.

If you were a Townie, you would not want to draw a mislynch of yourself, seeing that were all ignoring your behavior from yesterday. You even call it a "performance" and you are forewarning that you cannot defend it.

Why are you doing this?

Do you want to be lynched? Did you know Eon was scum, did you defend it to set us up to lynch you today?

I looked up possibilities. Mad Gunman, Super Saint, Godfather (Town-aligned), Jester. Did I miss any?

Toaster Strudel's analysis seems right on the spot to me. Sailor Jerry points us to his "bad play" yesterday (which wasn't really as bad as he makes it sound, it was merely defending someone who turned out scum), and then apologizes that he can't defend against this bad play. This looks like it's asking to be lynched, but this would basically lead to WIFOM.

I'm none of those. But stop fishing.

At least you're contributing, I suppose.

vote: Toaster Strudel

.

You've smelt the scent of a nice easy lynch and you're just running with it.

No, he was responding to your deliberate ploy to bring attention to yourself.

This has basically been discussed, but I'm not too sure what to do on SailorJerry. I'd be for lynching him today, but I'm gonna have to readover the case for smashy and cadre.

Until then,

Fos: SJ

[klebian]

Wow. Bump.

So it's interesting that cadre and smashy, the 2 people with (I think) the most votes, are the only people finding tsq's statement suspicious.

I see tsq's point on cadre, but I very recently used a similar point to attack someone who mentioned (by mistake in 'speaking') that someone finding her scummy could be investigative, and she turned up townie. Meh.

The case on smashy seems to be that he switched for and against eon..

I'm not too sure about cadre, but I find SJ more scummy than smashy.

Therefore,

vote: SailorJerry

[klebian]

Hmm. That post looks scummy.

[klebian]

Good point, tss. Hmm.

About SJ's role, it IS interesting that the name he claimed wasn't on the list... However, there's one flaw with vigging him: if we don't have a vig, we won't know anything about SJ's role. If we DO have a vig, and the vig attempts to kill SJ, but fails, I don't think he would expose himself to the town, just to confirm SJ, would he? If he wouldn't, then we'd not gain much from him except when he would be forced to claim...

[klebian]

EBWODP:

Oh, and, it seems like the only role that could have swapped up Der Hammer is changeling:

Changeling - You can permanently swap roles with another player at night. (Your teams don't change.)

but I'm not sure whether 'your teams don't change' means allignment. It seems possible that Der Hammer could be lying scum who randomly brought this up to make us go on a wild goose chase...

[klebian]

Not much of a threat to me at the moment, would like to lynch mafia(-ish) before him.

That's an interesting turn of phrase. "Not much of a threat to me." Not to the town, but to smashy. Did smashy just claim SK, through freudian slip?

That seemed to me like what he's saying is 'doesn't seem like much of a threat to me'

[klebian]

unvote, vote: cadre

meh