Mafia 55: Yakuza - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote: coron

It is the only name I recognize right now.

I'm hurt.

Original Roll String: 1d16

1 16-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote: spectrumvoid

Run 'em up!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Twito

coz he is annoying.

unvote, vote: Twito

Git 'er done.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Three Word Name

Longest names go first.

*points to self*

LAL

FoS: Bogre

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoS: Shadowlurker

TSQ has a damn good point. Anyone who's actually read/been in games with BJ knows that TSQ's summary of his playstyle was pretty accurate. He's good at reading people, but he also tends to be quite random, especially in the early game. On day one, there's no way he would have a cop result, and it's way too early in the game for him to have a good read on anyone, so his actions are most likely random, and we can be about 90% sure that following him will have a random chance of hitting scum. Therefore, while ignoring him isn't necessarily the right choice of words, TSQ was indeed correct in his analysis. Personally, I would suggest just not giving BJ's words any weight, not to ignore him. The fact that you would call him out with such a bullshit argument rings bells on my scumdar, and my vote on Twito has become more solid since he's tried to back you up on this bad stance.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'd say if I compare SL and twito, twito does seem to be more scummy. However, I don't like the speed of the twito wagon.

I still say it sounds more like a staged fight, or one of them is more scummy.

Klebians's statement was crap, so I haven't bothered to respond to it.

This wagon hasn't been particularly fast. It's not like we got 6 votes in 9 posts or something. Most scum are aware of the fact that people get suspicious of wagon speed so they tend to either get on really early (first 2-3 votes), or they stay off until late in the wagon, or at least until it's moving rather slowly. My initial gut feeling is that the people on twito's wagon are clean, that is they aren't more likely to be scum because they are on the wagon. there is a legitimate case against twito, one he is failing to address. It's only natural that protown players would see a problem with this and vote accordingly.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Re: Twito

FoS: Shadowlurker

TSQ has a damn good point. Anyone who's actually read/been in games with BJ knows that TSQ's summary of his playstyle was pretty accurate. He's good at reading people, but he also tends to be quite random, especially in the early game. On day one, there's no way he would have a cop result, and it's way too early in the game for him to have a good read on anyone, so his actions are most likely random, and we can be about 90% sure that following him will have a random chance of hitting scum. Therefore, while ignoring him isn't necessarily the right choice of words, TSQ was indeed correct in his analysis. Personally, I would suggest just not giving BJ's words any weight, not to ignore him. The fact that you would call him out with such a bullshit argument rings bells on my scumdar, and my vote on Twito has become more solid since he's tried to back you up on this bad stance.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Let's continue lynching Twito plz

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm still here just trying to remember what was posted that we have lost. Although I remember Twito claiming unlike MOS.

And why is MOS wanted for claim..? He is not in my scummy ppl list.

I don't want MOS to claim anything; more that he forgot you claimed cop and wanted to continue lynching you.

I've posted since he claimed cop? o.O

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh, and

unvote

For the record, Twito claimed cop on Fri, Oct. 27. My last post until today was Thurs, Oct 26. While I apologize for my absence, caused largely by the site being down a lot and RL getting in the way, I can hardly be accused of continuing to want to lynch Twito after he claimed, since I haven't seen the thread since before he claimed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

wow, way to not post anything of content, people. When STD asked you to post if you are here, he didn't mean just say "here". Any posting made in the thread would easily tip him off that you are "here", yet you all choose the route of zero contribution, which merely slows down the game even longer as we wait for people who aren't "here". Thanks a lot, slackers.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Does anyone else feel like Twito is doing a really bad job of being protown, or is it just me? I'm having a hard time agreeing with anything he says...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Don't you think a doc would protect him if he really was cop? So it's not like he's going to die tonight if we don't kill him today

lolscum.

I agree.

vote: klebian

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote: spectrumvoid

I remember now why I was voting you. Because you're scum. Stop trying to stifle discussion that can help us to determine the alignments of two high profile players, kthnxbai.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't think lynching bogre or Twito is necessarily the play today. We can afford to leave bogre alive for another day while we wait for Twito to confirm his sanity, but I do think we should probably get a claim from Bogre.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Gone for the next couple of days for holidays. Don't expect much until about Wednesday.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The spectrumvoid vote was based on this line

]I think we've heard from most people now, and since no one has counter-claimed vig, vote: Twito

I suppose that it is likely that we are in lylo, so we may want to massclaim sometime today. Regardless, it's been excessively difficult for me to get a good read on anybody during my reread and I don't feel confident in my suspicions.

ShadowLurker - He thought that we had five scum, but said it was unlikely to have two cops. Also went after klebian needlessly.

TSQ - Voted Twito, but said that he was not willing to look past 'my' lynching twito.

Jules - A minimalist speaker who has only voted twice all game-- both times for pro-town players

Otaku - Also a minimalist speaker who has said little to go on.

CTD - Went from "Two cops is not unheard of" to "Vote Twito" in under sixty seconds.

Nightson - Has waved and said "Hi". That's about it.

MOS - Doesn't commit to voting SL, agreed with SL's bad assessment on klebian.

SV - For her line yesterday, and her other line "vote: klebian Badbadbad idea to draw attention to doc, dude. "

Seriously, I don't trust any of you. Except klebian, I think I trust klebian to be town. I think that there's a MoS headed scumgroup. I have reason to be suspicious of you all, but I get mostly bad vibes from him.

unvote, vote MoS

Also, I am not scum. I am not a townie either. But my role is not provable in any way and is currently not usable. That is all for now.

Uh, what? How am I scum because i didn't vote SL?

As for Klebian, I strongly discourage people from speculating on what the doc will or will not do, and I find that scum tend to lead such discussions. I feel perfectly satisfied with my vote at the time, although since then I have found SV scummier.

I would really like to know why you are protecting someone who tried to call attention to the doc and direct their night actions.

FoS: MBL

I won't be placing this as a vote quite yet, since it does seem possible that we are at LYOL.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would really like to know why you are protecting someone who tried to call attention to the doc and direct their night actions. FoS: MBL

I didn't know MrBuddyLee was in this game!! :O

Call it a hunch, but I strongly suspect you and SL to be part of a scumgroup. My suspicions began at your fifth post and have solidified since you tag-teamed Klebian.

Klebian's post is perfectly innocent and I feel that it has been attacked with flawed and faulty arguments. He didn't attempt to "direct" the doc, as you have put it-- he attempted to speculate on the options he was given in the situation based on past experiences and likely actions. The way that you and SL (mostly you) have misrepresented him on this issue is what bothers me the most.

I believe that SV is innocent based on his role, and Otaku is likely to be innocent based on what he has saidin regards to his role. This leaves TSQ, Nightson, SL, MOS, CTD, Jules, and Klebian.

ROFL, that's pretty much the same thing. By speculating on the doc's options, you are effectively telling the doc where you think they should protect, which is directing the doctor. It's been quite some time since I've seen scum stupid enough to outright tell the doctor where to go. You have to think more subtly than that, MBF. Either way, the vote was merely meant as a deterrent, a reminder that such behavior is unacceptable and should be avoided. You should notice that I did not press the issue of Klebian being scum, because that was the only instance where I felt he did something truly anti-town. I realize that protown players do this on accident, which is why he received a vote and nothing more. It's not as if I started a massive bandwagon and put him in danger of a lynch. You are blowing things way out or proportion, MBF.

unFoS: MBL, FoS: MBF

With perhaps the exception of TSQ, I believe it is wise for us to use a randomly generated list, so that no scum can influence the claim order.

1. Otaku376
5. Mikeburnfire
6. MoS
7. Nightson
12. Shadowlurker
13. spectrumvoid
14. Jules
16. CrashTextDummie
17. klebian

First person:

Original Roll String: 1d9

1 9-Sided Dice: (9) = 9

Second:

Original Roll String: 1d8

1 8-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

Third:

Original Roll String: 1d7

1 7-Sided Dice: (7) = 7

Fourth:

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

Fifth:

Original Roll String: 1d5

1 5-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

Sixth:

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (4) = 4

Seventh:

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

Eighth:

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mass Claim Order:

Nightson
Otaku376
Spectrumvoid
Jules
Klebian
MikeBurnFire
ShadowLurker
Mastermind of Sin
CrashTextDummie
TheStatusQuo

This should be acceptable to everyone, seeing as the list is completely randomized, with the exception of TSQ, who has already partially claimed by revealing that his role can help confirm other claims.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mass Claim Order:

Otaku376
Jules
Klebian
MikeBurnFire
ShadowLurker
Mastermind of Sin
CrashTextDummie
TheStatusQuo

Is there anyone besides MBF who has a problem with using a random list? The point of this list is that no one can influence the claim order, especially scum. If MBF is scum (or anyone else for that matter, I'm just using him as an example) and we allow him to make the claim list, he can put his scumbuddies near the end so that they can claim last. By using a random list, it is still

possible

for scum to get near the end of the list, but the chances of it happening are less and do not depend on whether or not someone is scum or whether they can read people well. It's a proven method that has been used time and again with positive results.

[Mastermind of Sin]

yea, you can't fake dice rolls and get away with it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

How do you know Otaku has such a role?

I'm not filibustering at all. You're the one holding up the works by refusing to follow a random list and trying to lead the town by forcing us to abide by your own personal suspicions.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well if he already claimed, he doesn't need to be in the claim list at all, does he?

[Mastermind of Sin]

If Otaku can confirm that he has information contained within his claim that would be critical to save until the end, I have no problem moving him back with TSQ. The same goes for you, and as long as you uphold this promise, it's all good.

The new list would look something like this:

Jules
Klebian
ShadowLurker
Mastermind of Sin
CrashTextDummie
Otaku376
MikeBurnFire
TheStatusQuo

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

If it's a 1, MBF and Otaku claim before TSQ

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

If it's a 1, MBF claims before Otaku

[Mastermind of Sin]

List:

Jules
Klebian
ShadowLurker
Mastermind of Sin
CrashTextDummie
Otaku376
MikeBurnFire
TheStatusQuo

Mod: Can we get a prod/replacement for Jules?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Roleblocker

[Mastermind of Sin]

Shall we just do a MoS? I'm pretty sure no one is going to convince me MoS isn't scum, game setup or not?

I love your bountiful reasoning.

[Mastermind of Sin]

this is amusing

[Mastermind of Sin]

Night 1: Klebian
Night 2: ShadowLurker
Night 3: Spectrumvoid

I'm inclined to

vote: MBF

right now, since he's trying to strongarm a lynch on me. Most of the suspicion on me was based off the fact that there was no "Boss" for the roleblocker, and now he's acting as if those suspicions should be just as valid now that the roleblocker boss did show up.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wow, forgot about this game. Read this page, still unsatisfied with MBF's play. More to come when/if I have time. Schedule is crazy these days.

[Mastermind of Sin]

TSQ: you wanted originally to lynch MBF based, at least in part, to confirm or refute the existence of roles that enable power roles in this game.
Then a fourth role proclaims his existence (Jules).
MBF has been pretty vocal in his willingness to lynch him.
In what scenario is Jules innocent and MBF (and sv and myself by proxy) guilty?
I also dislike the almost condescending tone you are taking about game design. You are implying that no one would ever design a game like this because it is broken. Maybe it is broken. I've played in games that are broken before. Sometimes mistakes happen. But when people start outguessing the mod it sets up a whole metagame issue. "The mod knows we would never believe setup X to be real, it's too broken. But if the mod knows we know, he could use it to trick us..." WIFOM.

Even that aside, when this game ends and the mechanics are revealed, should I prove to be pro-town, please admit that

an apology to the mod for your comments are in order. Because, should I be telling the truth, you are essentially implying the mod is incompetent. And that's not nice.

Back to the game, assume my role is real. If you were me, would you have any reason to not believe SV who claimed a role with comparable mechanics without prior knowledge?

Whereas, if I were you, with a role without any such boss; yes I would be skeptical. But see no reason to choose MBF over jules.

By that logic, I don't know why MoS is voting MBF over jules either.

There are several possibilities about these enabling roles:
A) All 4 (SV, Otaku, MBF, Jules) are telling the truth
B) All 4 are scum
C) Some are truth telling, some are lying.
I would assume public opinion of credibility (largely based on timestamp of claim) would be:
1. SV
2. Otaku
3. MBF
4. Jules

If this is wrong please inform me. But I just cannot see any way where MBF is the better lynch than jules.

So based on the developments of today, I assume the scum group would be:
1. TSQ (based on persistent illogical voting)
2. MoS (based on persistent illogical voting)
3. Jules (based on support for a (assumed) nonexistent role)
and by process of elimination:
not SL and CTD (the masons, which would either be both or neither and we can't have a scum group of 5 lest it be game over)
so that leaves:
Nightson and Klebian. Both of whom have lacked in the participation dept.

MBF kept pushing for an illogical lynch even after his most solid reasoning was disproven. Jules has merely lurked. He needs to contribute, sure, but I don't see why I should have him as my highest suspicion among the "enablers". If he is a scum enabler, he could've just claimed to be something other than an enabler and let me hang. The fact that he supported me by claiming his role, even if he could still be scum, lends him some credence in my book.

[Mastermind of Sin]

This is fun MoS. I know that you're scum-- now it's just a matter of getting you lynched. The fact that you didn't have a "counterpart" was only part of the argument that you were scum. You've been sloppy all game, and roleblocker was a bad claim in general. The fact that Jules showed up and desperately tried to validate your claim is even more amusing. I don't think any pro-town players are fooled.

TSQ, just when I thought that I had figured out the scum, you come forward and admit to it. Are you still saying that the 'enabling' roles are likely to be scum? Then you shouldn't have any problem with lynching Jules.

Or are you suggesting that Jules is a true pro-town enabling role and we're anti-town enabling roles?

LoL, since when was it a rule that only scum could be sloppy and not put effort into a game? It's called

having a life

. Perhaps you've heard of it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: The speculation here is that you are scum, and Jules claimed RB-enabler to help you.

I understand that. However, knowing that I am not scum, how can you expect me to give any weight to the second part of your theory, which is based on the first part that I know to be false?

[Mastermind of Sin]

unvote, vote Jules

This works out great.

...my own theory as of right now is that the mod wouldn't make all the powerroles have a counterpart or else it'd be too obvious

It makes the game sound completely broken as we have possibly 6 confirmed innocents right there

The point is that having six confirmed innocents as soon as a mass claim happens is bullshit, and not something that StD woul put in the game.

Based on your logic, you would have no objection to killing Jules, as he makes the game 'even more broken', right?

That being said, I do believe the best course of action is to lynch MoS

I'm pretty sure no one is going to convince me MoS isn't scum,

And since the three of us think that MoS is a liar, we would have to assume that Jules' role is also made-up. That's FIVE votes right there. Then we just have CTD, or klebian, or Nightson hammah.

MOD: It's nice to have Jules show up and volunteer for today's lynch, but you may need to replace CTD. I have already replaced him in another game.

Still pushing me as scum.

Night 1: Klebian
Night 2: ShadowLurker
Night 3: Spectrumvoid

I'm inclined to

vote: MBF

right now, since he's trying to strongarm a lynch on me. Most of the suspicion on me was based off the fact that there was no "Boss" for the roleblocker, and now he's acting as if those suspicions should be just as valid now that the roleblocker boss did show up.

The above post is me pointing out that MBF still thinks I'm scum even after the RB enabler claimed. MBF's stated reasoning that the RB enabler is scum is because he believes that I am scum. Therefore, my post is completely valid.

This is fun MoS. I know that you're scum-- now it's just a matter of getting you lynched. The fact that you didn't have a "counterpart" was only part of the argument that you were scum. You've been sloppy all game, and roleblocker was a bad claim in general. The fact that Jules showed up and desperately tried to validate your claim is even more amusing. I don't think any pro-town players are fooled.

TSQ, just when I thought that I had figured out the scum, you come forward and admit to it. Are you still saying that the 'enabling' roles are likely to be scum? Then you shouldn't have any problem with lynching Jules.

Or are you suggesting that Jules is a true pro-town enabling role and we're anti-town enabling roles?

This doesn't look like pushing a lynch on Jules to me

Why does he not suspect the lurker who jumped in at the last second and said "I'm MoS's enabler"? Even if MoS was town, wouldn't Jules be suspicious for claiming the most opportunistic claim?

The first post that doesn't base Jules' scumminess off me being scum. However, this reasoning is wrong. If I am town, which I am, Jules is NOT suspicious for claiming the one role that was

missing

from the game, when we only had one person left to claim. You yourself said it didn't make sense for there to be a roleblocker without an enabler, but now you think that someone is scum just because the last person to claim had that role. That's very poorly thought out logic.

the people who are scum of the 8 'confirmed innocents' are the ones being the least cautious

Assuming that you are referring to the cop, doc, vig, enablers, and masons, there is no evidence that proves that there is definitely scum amongst them.

and are attempting to lynch those who are not 'confirmed' by this 'game breaking mechanic'

I'm not lynching MoS because he has no enabler. I'm lynching MoS because I think he's scum. I've said that I think he is scum since even BEFORE we massclaimed. The fact that his claim is weak and supported only by another very suspicious player enforces my beliefs, but it is NOT the sole reason.

the way you reacted to it is not a pro town reaction.

When I heard that SV and Otaku has similar claims, I realized that there was a hidden advantage to the town. Even though it may have been a flawed discovery (since SV and Otaku could still be scum), there is nothing scummy about attempting to locate definite innocents.

Also,

Jules.

You say here that you are lynching me, and merely mention Jules' name because you are waiting for TSQ's response on him.

May I note that even the mod didn't think you were trying to lynch Jules at this point, since he placed your vote on me. Just thought that was funny, not really game relevant.

I was just wondering if it had changed. So you still believe that the group is Jules, MBF, klebian, and Nightson.

Hmm. MoS, Jules, and tSQ. Who is the last scum? I suppose it could be klebian, but it could also be Nightson. Both of them say so little that it's hard to tell. Of course, we COULD always have a scum mason. That would balance the game more wouldn't it? It's you, isn't it ShadowLurker? You balance the game! You're a scum mason!

Or are you? It's honestly very difficult to tell. I'd like to believe that you are town but it's hard to imagine a pro-town player being so obstinate about lynching klebian without any real evidence, especially when Jules has essentially admitted to being scum. To me, klebian looks more town than you, even though you've claimed mason.

Since TSQ and MoS are futily trying to lynch me and ShadowLurker won't stop pushing for a klebian lynch, I suppose the only thing to do now is wait for CTD or Nightson to be replaced and hope one of them cares enough to help us out.

Now you're starting to focus a bit more on Jules being the lynch, though you have yet to provide any real reasoning that isn't based on me being scum in the first place.

We don't need Jules. We need CTD or Nightson to finish Jules off.

Again just asking to lynch Jules but still hasn't provided a reason that isn't based on my scumminess

TSQ: you wanted originally to lynch MBF based, at least in part, to confirm or refute the existence of roles that enable power roles in this game.
Then a fourth role proclaims his existence (Jules).
MBF has been pretty vocal in his willingness to lynch him.
In what scenario is Jules innocent and MBF (and sv and myself by proxy) guilty?
I also dislike the almost condescending tone you are taking about game design. You are implying that no one would ever design a game like this because it is broken. Maybe it is broken. I've played in games that are broken before. Sometimes mistakes happen. But when people start outguessing the mod it sets up a whole metagame issue. "The mod knows we would never believe setup X to be real, it's too broken. But if the mod knows we know, he could use it to trick us..." WIFOM.

Even that aside, when this game ends and the mechanics are revealed, should I prove to be pro-town, please admit that

an apology to the mod for your comments are in order. Because, should I be telling the truth, you are essentially implying the mod is incompetent. And that's not nice.

Back to the game, assume my role is real. If you were me, would you have any reason to not believe SV who claimed a role with comparable mechanics without prior knowledge?

Whereas, if I were you, with a role without any such boss; yes I would be skeptical. But see no reason to choose MBF over jules.

By that logic, I don't know why MoS is voting MBF over jules either.

There are several possibilities about these enabling roles:
A) All 4 (SV, Otaku, MBF, Jules) are telling the truth
B) All 4 are scum
C) Some are truth telling, some are lying.
I would assume public opinion of credibility (largely based on timestamp of claim) would be:
1. SV
2. Otaku
3. MBF
4. Jules

If this is wrong please inform me. But I just cannot see any way where MBF is the better lynch than jules.

So based on the developments of today, I assume the scum group would be:
1. TSQ (based on persistent illogical voting)
2. MoS (based on persistent illogical voting)
3. Jules (based on support for a (assumed) nonexistent role)
and by process of elimination:
not SL and CTD (the masons, which would either be both or neither and we can't have a scum group of 5 lest it be game over)
so that leaves:
Nightson and Klebian. Both of whom have lacked in the participation dept.

MBF kept pushing for an illogical lynch even after his most solid reasoning was disproven. Jules has merely lurked. He needs to contribute, sure, but I don't see why I should have him as my highest suspicion among the "enablers". If he is a scum enabler, he could've just claimed to be something other than an enabler and let me hang. The fact that he supported me by claiming his role, even if he could still be scum, lends him some credence in my book.

Also note that this post came right after MBF makes a post saying he knows that I'm scum, he just needs to get me lynched.

In page 21, TSQ repeatedly said that he believed MoS was scum, but never voted him for it, but he DID vote me because he thought I might have been. He was trying to distance himself from MoS without actually putting him at risk whilst attempting to get me strung up.

In page 22, Jules claims. I try to push for a lynch on Jules, then MoS pops up and says "

I'm inclined to vote: MBF right now, since he's trying to strongarm a lynch on me."

However, I was NOT trying to get MoS lynched. Quite the opposite: I unvoted him and tried to get Jules lynched. This indicates that MoS interpreted my post as hostility towards him. He did so because he and Jules are linked.

Also, tSQ comes up with a theory that allows Jules to not be subjected to his scrutiny whilst still maintaining his death grip on me, otaku, and SV. He DOES NOT EVEN MENTION Jules.

He finally mentions Jules in page 23, but only briefly, when he states that MoS and Jules are possibly scum, but that I am definitely scum. He says this without consideration and without any reasonable proof. For the rest of the page he dodges any questions about Jules.

Page 24 involves MoS still trying to get me lynched.

MBF kept pushing for an illogical lynch even after his most solid reasoning was disproven.

he says. The "reasoning" he mentions is the fact that MoS should die because he does not have a backup role. However, I have NOT been pushing his lynch for that reason, just as I have not been pushing a lynch on tSQ for his gunsmith claim (so you can stop with that reasoning now). As a matter of fact, I'm still trying to get JULES lynched.

What does all this amount to? A TSQ-MOS-Jules scumgroup. The way tSQ and MoS don't even give Jules's behavior a second thought or even acknowledge questions I ask about him. The way Jules came to MoS's aid with a backup claim. The way tSQ refused to vote for MoS. The way MoS feels attacked when I shift my focus to Jules. It's all right here.

I hope that all the replacements notice this post when I'm gone.

This post makes me LoL. I think I've already sufficiently proven that my vote on MBF was perfectly justified and that he WAS showing hostility towards me, so it was NOT based upon the fact that he voted Jules. Voting for someone doesn't mean you can't push for other people to be lynched, and you certainly spent a lot of your time pushing the fact that I was scum, since that was the basis for your theory that Jules is scum. I am amused that you accuse TSQ of calling you scum without any reasonable proof, when you have done the same thing with Jules. What a hypocrit.

So let's review. I did give Jules' behavior a second thought and explained why I didn't feel he was the correct play for today, so your first point is completely wrong about me. Secondly, Jules did support my claim because he IS the RB enabler, whether or not he is scum. The fact that he supported my claim makes it MORE likely that he is innocent, not less. I have already explained why this is the case. I, too, would like to hear about TSQ's discrepancies, if he hasn't said already. I will have to reread and see what you are talking about. In this very post I have proven that my feeling attacked was because you DID attack me and had nothing to do with your vote on Jules.

Vote stays.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Upon rereading TSQ's posts, I'm not really seeing any discrepancies as serious as you are accusing him of. However, he also has not explained why they are not discrepancies. I can see why they are not, but I will wait to hear it from TSQ himself rather than provide reasoning for him, since that defeats the purpose.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS is scum and Jules is scum for protecting him. This is the reason that I am voting Jules, I can admit that. This is my reason, but there are others available. MoS, you say that

Jules is NOT suspicious for claiming the one role that was missing from the game

, but he is. There was no "one missing role". There was no miller, gunsmith, or mason enabler either. He picked a role that was convienient for him and, more importantly, convienient for you.

miller is not a role with an activated ability. Neither is mason. Neither of those would make sense as having an enabler. The gunsmith could have an enabler, but of the claimed activated roles so far, it also makes the least sense as having an enabler. I can't think of a role that would make sense flavor-wise as enabling the gunsmith. Therefore, yes, I do believe that roleblocker enabler was the one missing role from the game. It was the role that was expected by most to be there but had not yet been claimed.

I have never stated that it didn't make sense for there to be a roleblocker without an enabler. Others have brought this up, but it was not me. Otherwise, I would have been going after our claimed gunsmith for this reason. I have not done that. In fact, I believed him to be town, until he started changing his theories to allow Jules to slink away.

I will concede this point. The post of you and the other enablers are melting into one, since you all are basically supporting each other on the strength of your claims, which is funny, since you now want to lynch a fellow enabler just because he wasn't around to claim when you all did.

Jules did support my claim because

he IS the RB enabler

, whether or not he is scum.

How the hell would you even know that?

Because I find it highly unlikely that we have NO enablers. That is the only way I can see him NOT having that role at this point. Regardless of the alignment our various enablers have, I believe they do have the ability they claimed.

TSQ has relatively ignored Jules, allowing him to lurk without penalty. MoS is going an extra step and defending Jules, even going so far as to speak for him, claiming with absolute certainty that Jules is who he claims to be.

And? I'm not calling you scum for having defended Otaku and Spectrumvoid, even though you have no way of knowing their alignments...I didn't say I was sure of Jules' alignment, but since it doesn't make sense for a scum RB enabler to actually claim that role and support me, I am inclined to leave him alive for now.

I am amused that you accuse TSQ of calling you scum without any reasonable proof, when you have done the same thing with Jules. What a hypocrit.

Jules has lurked. Jules has claimed an opportunistic role. Jules is protecting you. You and TSQ are protecting him, and refuse to seriously consider the possibility that he is scum. I wish I had more to offer as proof, but it's difficult because

he's only posted four times in the last two months

. I have posted 63 times in the same amount of time, and my posts have been substancial, yet the best reasoning TSQ can give for lynching me is
{1} I am the least cautious of the enablers and masons
{2} That I assumed Otaku and SV are town (I still do)

"Jules has lurked." - That's scummy, but also understandable. It's not an end-all argument.
"Jules has claimed an opportunistic role." - I have already explained multiple times why this claim is not opportunistic.
"You and TSQ are protecting him, and refuse to seriously consider the possibility that he is scum." - I won't speak for TSQ, but I already said many times that he could be scum, but from my position he isn't likely enough to be worth lynching today. There's not much more I can say on that, you just refuse to look at this logically and understand where I'm coming from.

[Mastermind of Sin]

DrippingGoofball, why was Otaku neglected from your analysis of the game?

[Mastermind of Sin]

vote: MBF

Now that we have two enablers dead that had different alignments, I am further convinced that MBF is mafia. His actions have been increasingly scummy, and bussing his partner doesn't really make me less certain of this.

Blackberry, I may have missed something, but have you claimed yet? I can't find anything in your predecessors' posts that covers this. Seeing as you (all 3 of you) have been fairly inactive and non-contributing all game, it's hard for me to get a read on you, which is critical at this juncture of the game. Perhaps you'd like to provide us with some of your suspicions so far?

[Mastermind of Sin]

If Jules did claim Roleblocker Enabler than im 100% sure MoS is scum unless someone countered Jules (which I assume didn't happen).

If I were a scum and I saw enablers and such I would pretend to be a role and have my partner pretend to be an enabler to back-up my claim.

Vote: MoS

And how exactly would you have communicated to your newbie partner that you wanted them to back-up your claim during the day?

MBF, I still believe it possible that Jules could've been a scum RB enabler (there is no evidence to the contrary, considering he was the first scum to die), though given the fact that we have a gunsmith without an enabler I find it possible that I don't have one at all. I believed Jules was cleared as an RB enabler, but I never once said he was innocent. However, as the lone remaining power role, it seemed prudent to keep him alive for now and find the other scum, so that I could still block people and try to prevent kills.

So Blackberry, who else do you find suspicious besides me? What do you think of MBF's scummy behavior yesterday? How do you feel about the two masons? Do you think klebian's townie claim is sincere? Do you think TSQ is scum, or just "odd"?

[Mastermind of Sin]

LoL, I flipped out when DGB started PMing me the night before I was lynched. I totally forgot they were my scumpartners, I thought they were masons. I thought Klebian and TSQ were my scumpartners, though I didn't really dwell on it much. I didn't even remember I was scum until I had to go look up my role to claim. I'd been playing that game as a townie.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FYI, I didn't know Jules was scum with me until he claimed to be the RB enabler

I couldn't figure out why MBF thought I was scum, and I still don't know why, to this day. (Obviously, after I claimed is a little different, but MBF was trying to get me lynched before the claim) Also, why is it scummy to want a random claim order? That really does help the town more than the scum, usually.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, being able to avoid lynching scum for several days helped us out a lot.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nah, if you hadn't claimed it, I probably would've been lynched that day instead of the next day. You gave me a day to coordinate with SL and DGB, and we came up with a plan that would allow us to trick the town into mislynching once, which is all we needed to win.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Probably

[Mastermind of Sin]

Millers are teh awesome.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't think they were.

[Mastermind of Sin]

yay I got protected!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, that's pretty funny.