NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[DOMO]

I cant find my primary head 7 pages for the first RL day is way too much for me to read alone, so if i cant find him soon then we'll replace out.

From what ive skimmed ,i just see fluff and no one's fluff really stands out in particular.

[DOMO]

Prohawk, I dont get what scum sheilded means. But if its just mimicking reasoning, doesnt Shadi = Stevie here? (and likely others, im just looking at your quote). So why shadi?

[DOMO]

VOTE: TMNT

Mac's points, + his posts are starting to look full of fluff (while attempting to appear not fluff)

[DOMO]

Hi guys, sorry for disappearing, family emergency. All is well and I'm back now. Sorry to djd too, I didn't even let him know.

Catching up now, reads and stuff to follow.

[DOMO]

- rev

[DOMO]

Notes -

Spoiler:

#10 - prohawk's list gets a reaction
#11 - BRO's response is interesting, if BRO flips scum I'm going to be interested in those on the list.
#12 - same again with TIP
#13 - calcifer's suspicion seems town motivated
#19 - scummy, speculation on scum numbers seems fake - BRO is scum read
#23 - I'm happy zdenek is probably town if BRO is scum
#29 - liking calcifer more
#32 - too blatant to be chainsaw vote, I don't think nero is scum if BRO is
#35 - not liking TIP though if BRO is scum
#38 - yeah zdenek is town
#42 - BRO is scum
#44 - interesting post from stevie... why is forming a town read on page 2 a scumtell? This stinks to me of distancing from BRO and TIP.
#46 - yeah calcifer is on exactly the same page as me here, this guy is town
#53 - huh? calcifer is now saying BRO, TIP and stevie all town? I'm confused, these three were all named as scum in post #46, a position I agree with at this stage
#57 oh of course, hydra differences... I suppose I won't complain about that, seeing as we'll probably have our disagreements
#70 - ripping Bender jokes... made me laugh though... TIP posting a little more townlike though
#73 - BRO seems like he's deliberately trying to link himself with TIP here... not sure how this reflects on TIP, but I'm pretty sure BRO is scum whatever TIP's role

Up to beginning of page 4...

I'm really tired and need sleep, will resume my catch up later.

So far... BRO is probably scum, weaker scumreads on stevie and TIP... calcifer and zdenek both town.

[DOMO]

Sorry... ^ rev

I will get into the habit of signing my posts.

[DOMO]

I like you, post more please.

I'll post much more often from here. djd did say before we agreed to hydra that he was going to be busy, hence me being the primary head, but I'm free now and have no plans to disappear again, so this game will be my priority now. I haven't yet spoke to djd since the start, so for now it's just going to be my reads and ideas. I'm not sure he's fully up to date either, he hasn't left any notes in our QT telling me what he thinks, it's just stuff like "where are you" lol.

Reading up from p4 now. I'll post more notes today. I'll avoid putting a vote down until a) I've read every post, and b) I'm in agreement with djd.

-rev

[DOMO]

Ok so djd has emerged and said he'll be able to read up "tomorrow", though I think he means today (sunday) because he's 7 hours behind me and it was early morning for me when he posted that.

notes -

Spoiler:

#84 - stevie explains why he considers a towntell on page 2 to be scummy... I disagree... while I agree strong reads are very difficult to form by page 2, it's entirely possible to have scum and town reads by now. I think BRO is scum, but not because he has town reads on page 2.
Starting #86, there's an exchange between TIP and kingcrabd. TIP suggests doc is scum, kingcrabd rises to his defence. This could be interesting if doc is scum.
#91 and #93 has me thinking TIP is town. This suspicion feels sincere.
#99 - kingcrabd discreditting TIP
#101 - TMT talking up a TIP lynch.
#108 - further discreditting of TIP, this time by ankamius, emphasising bad town. Finishes with a BRO vote
#130 - I don't like this post... PL sucks, so does complaining about people posting.
#132 - hmmm this doesn't feel like both doc and kingcrab are scum, possibly doc is scum and is trying to link himself with kingcrabd
#135 - this is awful... if ankamius thinks TIP is town, then why does TIP need rope?
#136 - doc is sketch
#139 - kingcrab starting to feel more town
#150 / #152 - playing dumb with hydras? How hard is it to look at OP? MS is someone I have played with and he always seems scummy. But this is lazy fluff posting.
#161 - quiet guy commenting on post #10, which is prohawk's list...
#162 - stubbs thinks doc's post is awesome
#176 - I like this post from prohawk, and I like his RVS list idea, it caused a reaction which could give us clues later.
#177 - mac feels like town here, he raises good points and appears to be scumhunting
#182 - towniest thing I've seen so far from BRO
#191 - is good post
#192 - town thought process
#198 - talk of hardclaim to get a lynch? What the fuck is this? Nero stinks here.
#211 - ok so djd does have some ideas, can't say I hate this vote of ours.
#225 - bravo for townreading us after we made 2 posts in 9 pages... I'm impressed...
#262 - this sums up my feelings on BRO and has me leaning town with ank... doesn't feel like he's bussing BRO.
#264 - lazy chainsaw, rift could be scum with BRO
#274 - weirdest claim I ever saw, will come back to this
#276 - lol @ not self destructing on n2
#280 - ok rift is town

Here's where I'm at, I would like djd to read through and talk through with me where agrees or doesn't, and hopefully we'll be able to refine our reads further into stronger ones...

reads -

Spoiler:

Ankamius - possibly scum, but a BRO scumflip would look better for him, although he could be bussing ofc. Didn't like him piling on the TIP VI wagon.
Baby Spice - not much to go on, but feels town
Brian Hollywood - who? Let me ISO... oh, one post... obviously null as fuck
BROseidon - number one scum read, only once did I get a town feel from BRO, the rest of his posts stink
Calcifer (mastin2 & Nachomamma8) - got an early town feel from this slot and saw no reason to be worried
Doc Holliday - reads scummy, there's a few posts of his I didn't like
dramonic - who? ISO time again... oh yeah I recognise the avatar now... could be scum trying to float by day 1.
KingCrabd (Hydra of Cabd & TheKP) - I didn't like his attack on TIP, but otherwise he looks ok, so mostly null. Will revisit in the event of doc scumflip.
Mac - I get a town feel from him, but nothing strong, though his low activity is a little alarming
Metal Sonic - usual scummy self
Nero - his laid back style seems town, but I didn't like his hardclaim comment, so I'm a little concerned
orcinus_theoriginal - probably town because I saw him as scum recently and he was ridiculously active
ProHawk - leaning town
Rift Adrift (Syryana and fferyllt) - that weird claim... I'll look more at this hydra
Shadi1337 - null
StevieT92 - slight scum lean
StubbsKVM - loosely linked to doc for #162
T S O - null
The Goat - null
TheIrishPope - At first I though scum, but started to get a town feel from this guy, and feel like he might have been identified by scum as a ML target. I don't agree he's VI, if he's town he's doing an excellent job of stirring things up.
TMTOLBTWNTOF - mostly null, there was something he posted I didn't like all that much though
truly14 - replace request seems town but it's a lame reason for town cred, I'll wait for replacement before moving out of the null group
Zdenek - leaning town

scum/null pool - ankamius, brian hollywood, BRO, doc, dramonic, kingcrabd, MS, nero, rift adrift, shadi, stevie, stubbs, TSO, the goat, TMT, truly14
town pool - baby spice, calcifer, mac, orc, prohawk, TIP, zdenek

baby spice and mac townreads are thin to say the least, need more to go on really.

I hate large games on day one. Far too many in the scum pool. Get towning, people.

I'm finding a few potential links though. Doc doesn't look good, and if doc flips scum and TIP town, then I feel there's a good chance of scum between ankamius and stubbs, perhaps even both. Also a doc scumflip is interesting for kincgrabd, though this is thin and one could argue a doc scumflip looks good for king too, based on doc's buddying. Certainly I'll be looking again at king, stubbs and ankamius if we get a scumflip on doc.
A BRO scumflip looks bad for rift based on #264.

At this stage I like a doc or BRO lynch most, but I'm yet to exchange thoughts with djd, so until then...

unvote

-rev

[DOMO]

good work comrades, pile the votes on stevie. if required, i will hardclaim my role to get him lynched.

Nero feels good except for this post. I don't like the hardclaim hint. Maybe just WIFOM for the lulz, I'm guilty as hell of this as town in the past, but still it pinged. But otherwise, yeah nero seems good.

Do you have any scumreads MS? I don't see a vote from you yet, which I find alarming.

[DOMO]

I don't like cats.

[DOMO]

So why don't you like full read posts anka?

[DOMO]

Oh yeah, sorry...

-rev

[DOMO]

Maybe I need to learn the hard way too. I can see how it might help them decide if we're a decent NK target or not, but that's about all, and everything any townie posts helps them in that respect.

fwiw I don't like cats because they keep shitting in my garden.

[DOMO]

LOL @ Domo for linking me and Doc because I agree people have lives.

Domo: could you explain to me why your biggest scumread is BROseidon?

I've tried comparing your reactions to his posts, but I'm not seeing it.

BRO stood out for me as I read through. His reaction to prohawk's list seemed paranoid.

And then this...

Let's say there are 6 scum.

This pinged. Let's try hard not to scumslip. Let's use careful language while speculating about scum numbers.

From this point on I have an air of suspicion reading his posts.

As for your link to doc, your comment that his post was the best in the thread stood out as I read, I guess it looked like you were perhaps buddying someone I was suspicious of. It might well be a thin link, it's still early and I'm working with what I've got. That's what I thought at the time, so I noted it.

I'll be honest, I don't have a great deal of faith in these early reads. But in recent games I've been doing pretty well on day one and then somehow seem to allow myself to get distracted later. So I wanted to make sure I posted my gut reads.

We'll see if djd agrees with me, he's a sharp scumhunter, he's owned the fuck out of me in the past so I respect his game. For now I've got nothing better.

[DOMO]

you were reading us as town despite the conflicting reads?

I consider hydra disagreement to be rather null, so it wouldn't sway me one way or the other.

@rift - that notes and reads post is pretty much standard for when I replace into games, regardless of my alignment. I realise I didn't replace into this one, but I missed all of RVS and so felt obliged to read through and share my ideas.

And calcifer... I think I'm happy to put ank in town camp with that in mind. It makes sense why he doesn't like them now, and it's something I might think seriously about.

[DOMO]

-rev

[DOMO]

Morning. Busy today but I have time over breakfast to respond to people.

his posts are starting to look full of fluff (while attempting to appear not fluff)

What does this even mean?

scummy, speculation on scum numbers seems fake - BRO is scum read

why does it seem fake?

This could be interesting if doc is scum.

You think that King Crabd would be worried about defending a scumbuddy so early? Against TiP?

1. I dunno, that was djd, I'll let him tell you what he's thinking there. There's no explanation in our QT for this vote of his, all I can say is I didn't disagree with the vote to the point I thought "wtf is this". But the fluff comments, you'll have to wait for him for an explanation there.

2. Gut I guess, these are my notes as I read through. I see he's replied so I'll address him directly.

3. It's possible, I don't know tbh. I have limited experience with cabd, and no experience with the others. Again, read up notes. TIP was getting a lot of VI accusations, I don't feel that at all, he's stirring up a lot of shit and it seems to me like he's being discredited. But while there were a few things kingcrab did that pinged slightly, there was the odd townish post too, so there's a good chance I'm barking up the wrong tree here.

wtf why would you ever organize a reads list this way?

@Domo do you think Ank is powerbussing me, then? You have us both down as likely scum.

Those I'm null on are in the scum pool and have to town their way out. Putting people in the scum pool gets a reaction, I like reactions.

Do I think ank is bussing you? I don't think so now. It crossed my mind while reading through, sure.

Wow this logic is terrible. Seriously, that I don't know how many scum there are so I assume some number for a point makes me scum? In what universe does that make sense?

At the risk of repeating myself, it was gut as I read through. Your reaction to prohawk's list was to vote for him and tell us it was a terrible idea. I didn't think it was a terrible idea, I thought it was a good reaction test. And then you're immediately speculating on scum numbers, and the language seemed careful. "Let's say there's 6 scum" seemed like a deliberate attempt to not scumslip. Maybe that's just me being paranoid. But I've already said why I wanted to post my gut reads as I read through, I'm starting to get a little more faith in my early reads because of recent d1 is where I've been right.

Right now you're the one who I felt was scummiest as I read through. I'm yet to discuss these reads with djd, that will happen soon I hope because while I accept I'm going to be the dominant head here, I respect djd's opinion and will accept I'm being a retard if he thinks so. But you telling me my logic is terrible isn't going to shift me. It wouldn't be the first time scum called me terrible when I was onto something. It also wouldn't be the first time I was talking shit.

[DOMO]

ffs sorry I'm doing awful at remembering to sign my post... I just got up and I'm still half asleep, that's my excuse for the last one!

-rev

[DOMO]

Why would anyone think that the daykill is anything other than an attempt to be funny? I swear I see it it at least half my games, I'm yet to see anyone actually die as a result.

Anyway I've no idea where djd is so...

vote BRP

He can always remove ourt vote if he has better ideas.

Also, MS's post above made me laugh. I'm glad we have such an expert scumhunter. Is my vote good MS?

-rev

[DOMO]

pfft nice typo

vote BRO

[DOMO]

@DOMO

it depends on what your definition of "good" is. If you're asking if Broseidon is scum, I will answer that I have not seen much compelling evidence to make me believe so as of yet

Well, by good I mean someone who has a higher probability of being scum than average. I mean it's day one, I don't expect there to be anything that I would define as "compelling".

Is there anything you see as "compelling"?

[DOMO]

I find that Bro only has what you describe as an "average" chance of being scum

Well, I disagree here, an "average" chance of being scum would be x in 23, from my POV. I only need to have one town read to shift that to x in 22. That's better than average. I have a few town reads. While they might not be accurate, I consider this shifts the chances of BRO being scum to better than x in 23, therefore better than average. But I suppose he doesn't have a better chance of being scum than anyone else I haven't townread yet, so maybe you're right that my language is unclear. There's a lot of people who are better than average. Still, I'm happy to leave my vote here for now because at this moment I can't find a better target.

What's your read on BRO, MS? I see you interact with him once in your ISO, calling him boring. Other mentions of his name are in recent posts to me. Further, in BRO's posts, I see him mention you a couple of times, stuff like "that's MS for you" when referring to your lazy style. And he didn't like TSO's shift to you.

Here you seem to be rising to his defence. Do you have reason to think he's town?

rift - yeah that post was rev, as is this.

[DOMO]

@DOMO

it depends on what your definition of "good" is. If you're asking if Broseidon is scum, I will answer that I have not seen much compelling evidence to make me believe so as of yet

Well, by good I mean someone who has a higher probability of being scum than average. I mean it's day one, I don't expect there to be anything that I would define as "compelling".

Is there anything you see as "compelling"?

Calcifer? Is it just me, or for a rev post does this ping a little?

slipped.

ff, I've played you once as far as I can remember, and that game is still ongoing after you got lynched d1 and I got NK'ed n1. Are you really using meta to cast suspicion at me?

-rev

[DOMO]

Overly Posh? That's my scum game isn't it?

[DOMO]

Oh wait no, that's the one vifam and ninja won. I was town.

[DOMO]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at, you're gonna have to be clearer than "pinged" if you're expecting a defence. That overly posh game, I had no idea what was going on for the most part, I think I said at some point that I'd never felt so out of my depth in a game of mafia before. It was a big game flowing very fast, much faster than this one. Now while I'm not really into this one yet, I don't feel out of my depth just yet. If you want a game to read for meta, read up on the masons game that me and djd won between us, with help from om and his replacement malakittens. Then when me and djd are finally working together, you'll have a reliable comparison.

-rev

[DOMO]

zdenek, is quoting someone and saying "scum" your idea of analysis? What's weird about me making a typo and then correcting it? And why am I scum for my quoted post at MS?

I think I might have been wrong to town read zdenek, his push at me comes right after rift names me and him as scum... fishy timing. If I get lynched first, it discredits rift's list... and if he gets lynched first and flips scum, rift's thoughts looks good and his comments at me will be interpreted as blatant distancing, maybe resulting in my mislynch. I also don't like his reasoning for pushing TMT... I have my doubts about TMT, but this goat fellow is certainly someone who deserves scrutiny, I mean he has 3 posts yet has an important vote down... zdenek calling TMT scummy for pointing this out is questionable.

Orc is town anyway. He doesn't forget a game where he draws scum. rift is town too, despite ff scumreading me. It would surprise me if scum could be bothered to read overly posh to compare my meta.

pedit - I might join you on this orc, I'll wait to see what he has to say.

[DOMO]

orc - I'm cautious about voting for people I've been reading as town, sure. I've just ISO'd him and see nothing other than his recent push to be alarmed by, but I don't like his attack, just because it's devoid of analysis yet full of confidence. I've also been holding my vote because I'm hydra and wanted to wait for my other head so we can work together rather than just me alone, but he's nowhere to be seen, so I'm giving up on him and just getting on with it now.

Yeah sorry it's rev, I keep forgetting to sign.

[DOMO]

Why should your voting pattern concern me? I'm happy you're probably town, I don't care if you want to throw votes around. I'll probably be throwing votes around now I've given up on djd. I'm happy with BRO or doc at the moment, and zdenek is a possiblity, pending his response to recent posts.

[DOMO]

I've seen om of the nom ragequit as scum. But yeah I gotta admit I considered that replace out of truly's to be a town tell. Noobs in particular are excited when they roll scum.

[DOMO]

zdenek... you think I have BRO as scum purely for page 1 stuff? His comments at me calling my logic terrible, this kinda reminded me of buldy in my last game... ff can tell you were that one went. I've explained a few times that I was waiting for djd before voting, I've also said a few times I think BRO is scum, and he's done nothing to convince me otherwise. I'd have voted for him long ago had I not been hydra, and my vote would probably still be there.

It reads like drawn out bs that you want people to care about, but that doesn't matter.

Me talking shit is more likely to be an indication of the quality of weed I'm smoking. If you can be bothered to meta me, you'll see I talk a lot of crap. MS suggested BRO has an "average" chance of being scum, I was explaining why I don't see it like that. Sure it might be drawn out, but it matters. I also wanted to know why MS was fighting BRO's corner, something he's yet to respond to. I have reason to suspect MS, independent of BRO, and want to engage with him some more.

I haven't given any reason so, I don't know what you're talking about. Now, you're attacking me for prodding someone you have doubts about?

You quoted his post where he points the finger at goat, who has 3 posts and an important vote on stevie. Forgive me for assuming this was your reason for calling him scum. Yes I have doubts about TMT, I have doubts about stevie too, but neither are reads I have a huge amount of confidence in. I think TMT is right to consider goat sketchy, so you pointing your finger at TMT for a post that I actually agreed with pinged, more so than your attack at me tbh.

Stevie still looks scummy to me. I don't see why goat needed to comment more at that moment. Why do you think that he did?

You don't see why goat needed to comment more? Is this serious? He has 3 posts, I'd like to see him comment more on a lot more things than this. Why do I think goat made the comments he did? I dunno, I can speculate, like maybe he's town and thinks stevie is scum, or maybe he's scum and wants to ML stevie, or maybe even bussing... it's pretty difficult to get a read on goat based on 3 posts. Seeing as I'm not really sure about stevie, this makes it harder for me to figure out his motives.

Why do you think TMT voted for goat? Do you not think goat is worth of scrutiny?

[DOMO]

Stubbs, why are you voting nero?

[DOMO]

I don't like the nero wagon, but that has a lot to do with the fact I like the other four.

[DOMO]

zdenek has picked up a couple of votes since then. Maybe "wagon" isn't the best word after 2 votes, but I can see why he was picking up votes at the time.

[DOMO]

fwiw I don't hate his response to me, so my vote is staying on BRO. I can shift to doc if his wagon picks up more steam than BRO's.

[DOMO]

After you(DOMO) explained, I can see why people are voting for BRO. I don't really want to join that wagon based on those reasons though.

I would hope that no-one will vote for BRO purely because of that. I would hope he's picking up votes because people think he looks scummy. Like his #34, that horrible self vote. Like him pushing the idea that TIP is a village idiot. I do like his #182 though, the reasons for voting stevie are solid. But then the "terrible" comment pinged, though that could easily be due to being called terrible by scum in my last game when I was onto something.

Reading his ISO again, I'm starting to have my doubts. Let's another look at doc.

#130, complains about the game pace, blah blah stop posting so fast, vote TIP based on suspicion and PL, waa waa again at speed of game, which incidentally is fucking slow compared to some of my recent games (my last one breaking the mafiascum record for most posts on d1). #187 joins the nero wagon. #215... "Broseidon, I would like to introduce you to a concept called powerbussing."... this pings, but maybe that's because I'm suspicious of both. His #424 explanation for nero suspicion at least seems sincere. In fact his next three posts seem more townish than he had previously.

Meh I'm starting to question my reads now. I keep telling myself to trust my gut because I have an uncanny habit of recent to sniff scum out early on, then convince myself I was wrong when the game picks up pace. This is the stage of the game I hate the most... that bit on d1 where I start wanting blood so I can start to apply flip info to my reads.

I'd like to see doc and bro post more. They're still my preferred lynches at this stage.

[DOMO]

orc, is ff the kind of person to go trawling through old games when scum to gain town cred? Because that's the basis of my town read on this slot.

[DOMO]

Also, I prefer ff's avatar over rift's. Make more hydra slips ff.

[DOMO]

Fair enough. I read your hydra pretty well last game, but in fairness it was buldy who I was reading well, I found you tough to read.

^ @rift

pedit - ok point taken re: rift.

[DOMO]

Yeah but we're both dead. I'll shut up about it though.

[DOMO]

I've already pointed out your activity there was immense, I just don't see you being so quiet for 20-odd pages if you rolled scum again. I might be wrong, but that's good enough for me to townread you on d1.

[DOMO]

Stubbs is someone I think could be scum. I don't like anyone on the nero wagon, but then at the same time I highly doubt all three are scum. But I feel like the nero wagon is an attempt to divert votes away from one of bro/doc/stevie. So I feel like there's scum on there, so yeah stubbs is in my scum pool.

[DOMO]

Looking at stubss' ISO, I can see him being scum with BRO and/or doc based on #383. Plus he's townreading doc and stevie to justify being on the nero wagon.

In fact fuck this, BRO, doc, stevie and stubbs are all scum. You heard it here first. God I hope scum are actually playing that transparent lol.

[DOMO]

Stevie's probably my least confident read of the four.

BRO = doc > stubbs > stevie

I get no read from dram's posts but a PL isn't in my arsenal except in rare circumstance. Further, I find PL suggestions scummy.

[DOMO]

I'm not saying you're scum, but you definitely dropped a town point or two. Why do you want to PL dram?
.

[DOMO]

I can't read him at the moment, but I don't want to kill him off for that alone. I prefer to lynch people I'm reading as scum.

[DOMO]

I feel like MS is more interested in this game than I've been used to, and TSO's point about him asking hydra questions is something that pinged for me too, it just seemed like posting for the sake of posting.

[DOMO]

Well I suppose I can at least see town motivation for wanting to PL him. He's posting often enough to dodge force replace, but he's going to have to keep posting to continue to dodge this. Maybe we should just be mean to him so he ragequites lol. You're right in that the later we leave it, the more of a problem he becomes.

I think he's an ok default lynch, but with 2 weeks until deadline, I think it sucks right now.

[DOMO]

Why am I focussed on the nero wagon? Because I don't like it, I don't like those on it. I realise information is limited, and so there's a good chance I'm wrong, but analysing wagons is pro-town, why don't you want me to focus on the nero wagon? If you think doc and stevie are town, aren't you a teeny weeny bit suspicious of those voting for them?

I don't think you're scum because you have a different opinion to me. I'm concerned about you because you're on the nero wagon and townreading two people I'm reading as scummy. Those two people both have wagons on them, so I'm looking at the nero wagon thinking it might be a scum driven counterwagon. It's not merely "this guy isn't thinking like me", I'm seeing potential scum motivation for you being on this wagon. You're also reluctant to join the BRO wagon, someone else I'm reading as scum. Are you really surprised I'm reading you as scum too?

[DOMO]

Bitches be trippin'
And by bitches, I mean orcinus
Give me yo' reads

Orc, do you really think this guy is scum? I'm not seeing it.

[DOMO]

Ok stubbs that's a good post, I found myself nodding in approval at some of your comments. I'm going out now but tomorrow I'm going to reassess stevie and have a look at those on his wagon.

Serene, may I ask who this hydra is made up of? Thanks.

[DOMO]

It would be easier for me to know that if you said something about it.

Erm... #421

Your suggestion that my vote is weird lacks basis, because you clearly didn't even bother to check what I've said about BRO in previous posts. You're plucking scum reads out of thin air.

vote zdenek

[DOMO]

I have a hangover. Please be nice to me for the next hour or two.

Sorry I've been non-participative. A myriad of minor reasons, not the least of which is...I managed to break my foot.

I'll try to catch up tomorrow. If I can't deal, I'll ask to be replaced.

Ouch that sucks. Take your time, don't worry about this game for a week or whatever, anyone who moans at you for low activity during the remainder of this mafia day can suck my balls. Sounds like you'll have plenty of time off work, so don't replace out, you could become useful!

Oops I misreqd and thought you said that you thought his logic was terrible. Your logic actually is terrible, so I guess I have no problem with him based on this.

lol, people calling me terrible is fast becoming my favourite scumtell.

Original Orc, I really don't get what you mean by saying some of Bro's posts seemed forced.

Please explain.

haha this seems forced. Forced = unnatural.

Indeed, and in the name of restoring unity and harmony I will:

VOTE: Calcifer

Interesting vote

Calcifer actually went along with the bone-headed idea of supplying 4 players for some insane lynch pool.

TheIrishPope
BROseidon
Nero
Zdenek

VOTE: TheIrishPope.

Then voted a townie.

I want to hang this scummy thing in the temple of all that is sacred.

ok that's actually an interesting line.

dramonic meta

This is interesting. Anakamius' dram defence next post is also noteworthy.

Rev's postings have been pinging for me in little ways all game. Mastin disagrees, so I'm sitting back and watching him for now.
But yeah, that stinks.

Hi nacho. Tell me why my posts ping, and I'll talk to you.

VOTE: Shadi

We're done for today. Lynch his face lol

This is better than calcifer imo.

Right, up to date.

I'm still happy with my zdenek vote, he's saying my vote for BRO is weird, but he didn't even bother to read why I was voting for him, therefore he's bullshitting scumreads.

I don't hate this shadi wagon, but baby spice being on it alarms me. baby spice could be scum, her posts seem awkward.

dram is also a viable lynch, based on orc's earlier points and the meta post of rift's.

calcifer I'm still reading as town, but serene's reason for voting is certainly noted. I'm not seeing serene as likely scum, truly's replace out seemed town and serene is targetting someone considered a universal townread, not a great line for scum to take at this stage, especially since calcifer isn't getting lynched.

BRO and doc have disappeared, and now votes are being thrown in other directions. Just wanted to point that out.

djd has posted in our QT apologising for being too busy to find time, so at least he's alive and well. It remains to be seen if he'll get involved, for the time being it's still just me.

-rev

[DOMO]

Oh and I think stubbs is looking more of recent.

[DOMO]

*more town

[DOMO]

Sorry to do this at short notice, I'm V/LA until monday, short break with the family.

-rev

[DOMO]

Hi, I'm back but I can't be bothered to catch up yet. Anyone got the tl;dr of the last few days?

-rev

[DOMO]

Hi, I'm back but I can't be bothered to catch up yet. Anyone got the tl;dr of the last few days?

-rev

we lynched you and you flipped scum

lol

[DOMO]

Yeah there's supposed to be two of us. He hasn't posted in our QT since before I went.

[DOMO]

The crash?

pedit - that aimed at me nero?

[DOMO]

I'm not sure about this shadi wagon. I'll have a look at him when I can be arsed, for now I'm going back to...

vote - BRO

[DOMO]

Hey everyone look at me I'm head #2 and I'm going to do a giant shit all over the thread.

[DOMO]

I'm gonna be honest, I can't be bothered to read what I missed. I started to but the letters were all just blurring together.

Baby spice is shooting up my scum list. She's had three votes down, one each for stevie and shadi, and now stubbs. The stubbs vote is wasted at this point, but the other two were on people under pressure. Meanwhile she has 12 posts and is dodging scrutiny herself.

BRO, doc, baby spice and zdenek, these are my top scum reads right now. But I've read very little since page 30, I'll read what I missed when I can motivate myself.

[DOMO]

Woah another 7 pages. I'm so far behind now. I need to read up from my V/LA notice.

[DOMO]

Well I've skimmed but I'm hardly up to date. I see we have a mason claim from serene, and dramonic pretty much confirms this next post... this puts serene and dramonic firmly in town camp for obvious reasons. Lot's of noise from #2, I'd reached the point where I wasn't reading his posts but I'm bastard well going to have to ISO him now, and ofc dram, since we can be close to certain of their alignment. If anyone has voted for both serene and dramonic, then we should look at them as potential lynch. The MOD's ISO was inconclusive, I couldn't find anyone at a glance who has voted for both, I'll have a better look later.

[DOMO]

I'm not saying default lynch someone who has voted for both, I'm suggesting we analyse anyone who has done so. Doesn't look like anyone has anyway, so it's a moot point.

I missed BRO's rolefishing as I skimmed through.

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

Yeah looks like it to me. Why would town want this info so early? Why would he "believe it for now"? Does scum ever fakeclaim mason with a scumbuddy? That would seem pretty stupid on d1.

pedit - explain the town motivation for wanting to know if there's more than 2 masons please BRO.

[DOMO]

I am curious to know if there's any more masons. But from a tactical point of view, I'd rather not know today, because keeping scum in the dark in that respect is better than feeding my curiosity.

If scum do not know how many masons there are, they won't fakeclaim mason, so I'm not sure why BRO asking how many masons there are can be considered as a counter to scum fakeclaims. On the contrary, knowing how many there are tells scum if there's anything to gain or not from fakeclaiming mason.

If both masons die tonight (highly unlikely but yeah it's possible), then we deal with anyone who claims to be a 3rd and final mason if and when it happens. We see if it makes sense for them to be a mason with serene and dram. It's not a concern, because it's a remote chance that both masons die tonight, and someone later claims to be a 3rd, with no 4th to confirm. It's much better imo to keep scum guessing. If they don't know how many masons there are, they can't make an optimal decision on who to NK tonight, because they'll be torn between trimming down the mason group, and hunting other PRs.

Yeah I can see more scum motivation than town for asking how many masons there are.

[DOMO]

Sorry guys I'm finding it tough to find the time right now, busy week, will try my best over the weekend.

[DOMO]

This bickering is stupid, it doesn't make it easy to read up.

Why aren't we lynching BRO? I showed everyone why his comments are more likely to be scum motivated than town, and he hasn't even bothered to defend himself. He's given up. I'd expect him to explain himself in more detail if he's town. He hasn't. Obvious scum is obvious.

I'm not joining the calcifer wagon today. I have him leaning town, although I've missed pretty much all of the last week. It's going to take something outrageously scummy to shift me off BRO.

[DOMO]

Domo, I discounted your BRO case at the time because I had you leaning scum. That read has softened, but I was townreading BRO earlier. I'll reread your case and BRO's posts today.

Fair enough, but I see very little town motivation in asking how many masons there are, and even less in ignoring my comments.

Your mac comments are interesting. I had a weak townread on mac, but I ofc didn't read my catch up post thinking "that's iffy", so I see no problem with mac giving me town points for it. But from your POV, I can see where you're coming from.

Stuff that may strike a townie as off may not draw any attention from a scum player because they know the post is coming from a town player.

Hard to argue with that. I'll have a good look at bulba soon, I should have more time over the next day or so. I prefer to lynch bulba than calcifer, that's for sure. My experience with nacho is that he's a fucking good townie, so I want more than meta on d1 to lynch him. If there's a scum case on him, I've missed it.

cephrir reads more town than doc, but I'll need more than his catch up posts to convince me I was wrong about doc.

[DOMO]

cephrir, how is orc your strongest townread when we have two claimed masons?

[DOMO]

They don't count.

Ok fair enough.

I'm still leaning scum with your slot though. I didn't like doc, and you've not yet shaken off that read.

BRO, zdenek, baby spice and cephrir my current scum reads. I am still way behind though.

@mod - can we have a fresh VC please? Thanks

[DOMO]

I really want to see a VC.

Just done a calcifer ISO, I don't see the scum case on him at all. Nacho meta isn't going to cut it alone. If anyone has any actual dirt on him, I've missed it. There's way scummier targets imo.

bulba ISO next...

[DOMO]

Domo, what's your read on me?

I'll ISO you next, at the moment I can't say I have a strong read on you at all.

I can see bulba scum more easily. I got a weak townread from mac, but he hardly posted. Bulba pinged a few times but at the same time there's scumhunting going on, I thought his pressing of prohawk felt town so I'm not sold. But not as town as calcifer.

[DOMO]

@shadi - Your #709 pinged pretty hard, up until then I was feeling town. I like your #797, that's a lot of work. Overall I'm feeling town on you shadi, more so than bulba. But I skimmed towards the end because I gotta go out. Will finish later.

[DOMO]

StevieT92 (4)- Nero, The Goat, BulbaFenix, StubbsKVM
Calcifer (4)- orcinus_theoriginal, Serene, Zdenek, Metal Sonic
BROseidon (3)- ProHawk, Brian Hollywood, DOMO
Shadi1337 (3)- T S O, Cephrir, KingCrabd
BulbaFenix (2)- dramonic, Calcifer

Ok then let's analyse the VC.

Stevie wagon makes some sense. He's not my preferred lynch, but I can see why he's getting votes. Those on his wagon don't lose or gain town points for voting for him.

Calcifer wagon makes no sense to me. It seems like it's purely based on nacho meta. It's day one of a big game, nacho is less dominant head of hydra, a meta lynch is weak imo. Those on his wagon lose town points. Except serene, obviously. Serene is just awful. Orc isn't awful, so I'm starting to get concerned about him, but I'm more concerned about the others on this wagon, zdenek in particular.

BRO wagon is good, those on it get +town points from me.

Shadi wagon is iffy, I'm gonna ISO TSO and kingcrab shortly. As for cephrir, well he has BRO as a scumread if I recall correctly, yet he's voting for shadi. Forgive me if I've missed something, but from what I read of shadi's ISO earlier, he's either town working his ass off to find scum, or scum working his ass off to look like town. I don't see a great deal of scumminess in shadi's posts. Meanwhile, BRO is legit scummy, at best he's liability town, at worst he's scum blatantly rolefishing and getting away with it. Cephrir's lack of BRO vote is strange since he's scumreading him. It reeks of distancing without having the testicles to bus him.

Bulba wagon is fine, I've said already I think calcifer is town, and dram is obviously town, so this wagon is clean imo.

Ok so having seen the VC, I like cephrir and zdenek even less than I did before, and metal sonic and orc need to be looked at. kingcrab and TSO are people I need to ISO.

[DOMO]

Looks like we're multiball, if either were vigged then we have a bad vig imo.

I see zdenek and bulba have both voted and neither look like they have considered how the night kills might effect their reads. There's some basic town motivation lacking right there. Neither explain their stevie vote, or comment on the mislynch which they were both part of. Dodgy as fuck.

Both those who were NK'ed were on the mislynch. So were the masons. The remaining pool deserve the most scrutiny as we begin today.

That's- Rift Adrift, Zdenek, KingCrabd, Shadi1337, Baby Spice, Cephrir, BROseidon, BulbaFenix, StevieT92

My scum pool right now is zdenek, bulba, BRO and cephrir. I doubt very much all four are scum on the same team, it would be crazy for all to join the mislynch and then kill a townie who was on the wagon, but they could be split into different teams.

I intend to catch up fully in the next 24 hours.

[DOMO]

HOW THE FUCK DO EITHER OF THOSE KILLS POINT TO STEVIE BEING TOWN?

What? That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you didn't appear to take the new info into account when placing your vote.

I don't know if the NK's make him look worse or better, I haven't read through since we restarted. But then I'm not throwing votes around with no explanation after we get three town flips.

[DOMO]

If you don't think that they point to Stevie being town, then why are you accusing me of not considering something?

Two reasons... one, you're high up in my scum list, and two, you voted without any explanation after we get three townflips. Are you surprised I think this is sketch?

I'm on... Page 3 guys! Only 83 pages left to go!

And I see some stuff about the kills being how Stevie's town... how?

Hmm... This is TSO's slot right? This could be scum.

[DOMO]

Well it's poor, imo, to not even consider the NKs when making such an early vote.

Nonsense? Why is it nonsense? You are indeed in my scum pool, and you are indeed voting without an explanation. And I am indeed thinking it's sketchy. So it's far from nonsene.

This FOS at zdenek is equally directed at bulba, by the way. I don't want anyone to think I'm singling zdenek out for something bulba has done too.

[DOMO]

Because me being high on your scum list does not make one of my actions scummy, and just because there were three town flips does not make that action scummy.

Nope, it's the total lack of town motivation that has makes that action scummy.

[DOMO]

You are scum, pushing garbage. Vote yourself please.

lol

Why am I pushing garbage? Let's break this down, seeing as it seems too difficult for you...

Two reasons... one, you're high up in my scum list, and two, you voted without any explanation after we get three townflips. Are you surprised I think this is sketch?

First, I point out that I already found you scummy before today. Thus, my suspicion of you is not new. Secondly, I point out that you voted without any reason. This, right after we get three townflips, seems to be lacking in town motivation. I'm reading a hawk and TIP ISO, for example. You, meanwhile, seem to be mashing f5 to see what's being said.

pedit - lol that's your 3rd vote today, that post kinda proves my point. You're not reading the thread, you're refreshing and throwing suspicion at anyone who posts. At least pretend you're town.

[DOMO]

Find me a a game where you found scum based on the "not considering the flips" tell.

This game.

"4 confirmed town were on this wagon therefore the wagon is dodgy".

This isn't what I'm saying. The wagon is dodgy because it's a town mislynch. That's irrefutable. The fact we have 4 confirmed town on it means we have a smaller pool to analyse. I said those on it deserve scrutiny. I said bulba and zdenek voting right away after three townflips without commenting on night actions was dodgy.

Anyway, I finished those ISOs, and hawk had a boner for BRO and kingcrabd. TIP was throwing a lot of suspicion around and seemed like obvtown to me so that kill makes a lot of sense. But the hawk kill is interesting. If BRO had a hand in it, then I would naturally question why I didn't get killed instead. Maybe prohawk was closer than me. BRO scumflip + hawk NK looks bad for kingcrabd imo, and probably good for cephrir, since doc was my other main scumread from d1.

lynch BRO

[DOMO]

At the other site I play at, we bold "lynch x", it's a habit I drift into sometimes.

vote - BRO

Your entrance today was horrible and if Stevie flips scum you get to eat rope tomorrow. Zdenek is obvtown beyond belief.

How the fuck does stevie scum = domo scum? Because I accused those who voted for him today of lacking town motivation? This has me thinking you're bussing him and hoping the stevie scumflip gets me lynched.

dayvig gambits suck. Has anyone ever been caught by one?

[DOMO]

dayvig gambits suck. Has anyone ever been caught by one?

no but i once saw town fake a dayvig gambit and then get counterclaimed by the actual dayvig who proved it by shooting a third player

that third player was bulletproof scum

lol

Why is zdenek town serene?

[DOMO]

I'm selective scumhunting? You and zdenek are the only two people, at that point, who had thrown a reasonless vote down. How exactly is that selective scumhunting? Who's my vote on bulba? Yeah, neither you nor zdenek. Thus, I'm not exactly pursuing this one line of investigation.

And if we're multiball, I get speedlynched? That sounds like someone lining up a mislynch after it becomes obvious.

vote - bulbafenix

I'm happy with you, BRO or zdenek. I hope the dayvig wasn't a gambit, though I totally expect it to be.

[DOMO]

Also wtf why would you propose multiball when a vig and sk are both viable options? Are you intentionally being obtuse?

I'd consider a SK to be multiball, sure SK is viable.

imo, the TIP kill is not the work of a vig, because he looked obvtown to me. Equally, hawk feels like a poor vig target. So we're probably facing multiple scum teams, it's the assumption I'm working on. If I'm wrong, well does that make me town? Of course not. So how does me being right make me scum? It doesn't. bulba's attack is weak, and is an attempt to get me killed when it's obvious. Your comment that I die if stevie flips scum is also weak, could be another attempt to get me lynched later. You guys really want me lynched huh?

I like how my speculation gets more interest than bulba and zdenek not commenting on night actions at all.

[DOMO]

The problem was that we have no clue that it's multiball, since SK or a vig. are viable options as well, in fact, in many ways they make more sense. However, you were quick to jump on the "We're in multiball" train, which tells me that you're likely scum on one of the teams who is eager to make his scumhunting the other team look as towny as possible.

I already said, when I said multiball, I was considering SK too. Vig does not seem likely to me. The people who are painting this as a scumtell are those I'm targetting. I don't intend to argue with scum about my motivations. Die please.

[DOMO]

Not trying to rolefish, but who?

My thoughts are "shut the fuck up serene". He's already drawn unnecessary info out of calcifer, now he's highlighting potential vig hints. Stop please.

After ISO, I think I'm willing to shift on zdenek. He pinged pretty hard yesterday when I accused him of plucking scum reads out of thin air, but that was before I considered multiball, in which case he wouldn't need to fake scumreads. So I'm willing to let that point go. He reads as town in pretty much all his posts that aren't interacting with me, so I guess I might just be misreading his motives for attacking me.

koopa is shooting right up my scum list though.

[DOMO]

Stevie ISO is meh. He appears to be scumhunting, I like his attack on BRO, but if we're multiball then it's easier to be legit. I don't hate his lynch.

I'll do the others on the nero wagon later.

[DOMO]

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

Isn't this hydra suggesting serene is scum? Shouldn't that effect your read on dramonic?

Bulba has a point though. Ank is saying dramonic is "slightly scummy", yet he hardly mentions serene in his entire ISO. Serene is way scummier than dramonic, if you're going to point the finger at one of the masons, it's gonna be serene. Very strange to call dramonic scummy without giving any consideration whatsoever to serene.

vote ankamius

[DOMO]

I think bulbafenix is scum too, I'm willing to put my vote back there. I'm finding it hard to find a winning scum strategy after fakeclaiming mason on day one. Serene and dram are masons. If anyone wants to argue otherwise then please, by all means, show us how they can expect to win and I might entertain the idea. For now they are confirmed town and should be treated as such, as much as that pains me after the way serene has been playing.

pedit - bulba's slip?

[DOMO]

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

[DOMO]

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement. But today he's come in with an immediate reasonless vote for stevie, then said I must be speedlynched if it's it's multiball for being the first to speculate on it, despite the fact it's the assumption most people seem to be working on, serene included. Then he's saying serene is scum, without explaining to us how fakeclaiming mason on day one with a buddy is viable. And he wasn't looking good yesterday.

So this bulba wagon does not have me concerned. He's picking up fast votes because he's scum.

[DOMO]

Yeah I just ISO'd the mod and see nothing about an inno child.

[DOMO]

How could I, an innocent townie, know he was hitting his stride unless he was starting to latch on to our buddies?

That's gold. I retract my anti-serene comments.

[DOMO]

This is why Ank needs to be powerlynched after Bulba flips scum. "Why the hell are you making useless posts and being obvious scum, you baddie scumbuddy?"

Only issue with this is, if we lynch bulba and he flips scum, we should be looking at BRO and kingcrabd, not ank. I get your point here, but as you say, if bulba knows hawk was hitting his stride, ie identifying scum, then ank isn't the next natural target. Though I do agree ank is scummy as hell right now.

[DOMO]

Just to be clear, I can't find "ank" at all in prohwak's ISO.

[DOMO]

Ok fenix, but you're failing to show how such a fakeclaim can be a viable stratgey. It's all very well coasting by on day two, but how are they going to explain how they're still around in endgame? That's assuming they don't get picked off by another scum team, and if we are multiball, scum will know due to team size. So, for these two to fakeclaim masons successfully, they need to know there's no other scum team, they need to gamble there's no actual masons to counterclaim (it only takes one), and they need a bloody good reason for not getting killed if they're still around when numbers matter, a reason that I'm struggling to come up with.

So please, educate me, because way I see it, fakeclaiming mason with a buddy on day one is absolutely retarded, more so if multiball. It only takes on to die and the jig is up.

They're masons. Stop hiding behind hydra disagreements in order to muddy the waters.

[DOMO]

That's literally the only reason I'm voting serene, orc.

[DOMO]

*bulba

sarcasm fail

[DOMO]

Oh hi scum. No I don't want to lynch stevie until you're dead.

[DOMO]

I'm more interested in bulba's "hitting his stride" slip. That seems to be going ignored while people focus on the language issue, which I'm happy to accept is worthless.

I'm a bad scumhunter? Yeah because I missed orc in my last game, misread him as strong town, and I've been doing it again this game. I'm starting to think orc is teamed with BRO and bulba, and they realise that if bulba dies today, the "hitting his stride" comment will get more love, hawk's comments will be further analysed, and BRO will get lynched to fuck. That's would explain why orc is so keen to protect them.

If BRO and bulba flip same scum team, lynch orc fast please guys, don't let him worm his way out. He is more than capable of towning it to high hell when scum.

[DOMO]

Nice OMGUS. How exactly am I scum there ank? Because I realise why they're masons?

Why didn't you give any consideration to serene when pointing the finger at dramonic? Why soft push a claimed mason when his apparent mason buddy is rolefishing to high hell? Why am I scum for finding that dodgy as hell?

What does the lack of "ank" in prohawk's ISO have to do with anything? I happen to think serene found a slip with bulba's "hitting his stride" comment. How would bulba know hawk was hitting his stride? It does indeed suggest bulba knows that hawk was sniffing out his buddies. Thus, the lack of "ank" in hawk's ISO suggests that we shouldn't swing for you if bulba flips scum, because hawk wasn't exactly onto you ank. It's entirely relevant if you actually read my three quickposts together in context.

[DOMO]

How is it a slip??

See above.

[DOMO]

Translation: "I know what's really going on, but I need to make something up quick to justify this wagon that I hopped onto."

This misrep alone should be enough defence.

I didn't just hop onto this wagon. I started it. I didn't like your stevie vote, same with zdenek, I see two people enter the 2nd day with no regard for what happened overnight. So I attack you both. You respond with an attack on me, saying I need to be quicklynched if it turns out to be multiball. I see this as an attempt by someone who knows it's multiball to get a mislynch when confirmed. And here you're saying I'm trying to find reasons to justify hopping on a wagon that I started with what I see as good reason.

This...

You, however, entered into the thread today with a determination that you KNEW it was multiball. You seemed to want to get in on the spec action early and drum up some town cred for scumhunting, which is more in line with scum motivation, rather than town motivation.

Let me ask you a question... if it's multiball, wouldn't it be better for the scum if town didn't consider it? If I'm scum and I know it's multiball, I want to be able to hide behind my legit scumhunting for longer without town knwoing that scum are legit scumhunting. So if anything, it's a town tell. There's little scum motivation for wanting town to be aware that scum are actually scumhunting, is there? Town cred is lost, not gained.
I do not know if it's multiball, I suspect it is. There's reasons for that which I'll get moaned at if say it... let's just say multiball is fresh in my memory. The night kills did not make sense to me from a vig point of view. Maybe I'm wrong. But they seem like shit vig targets to me. Two scum kills made more sense. Thus, I speculated. I speculate a lot. Well done for spotting a rev tell.

I'm pretty sure I'm defending against scum here.

[DOMO]

Hell, I saw both kills and told Bulba as soon as the thread opened up we MIGHT be in multiball.

So if I'm to assume this is honest, then you basically did exactly what I did, only in your hydra QT instead of the main thread. I did not say we're multiball. I said it looks like it. That was my thought process at the time of posting.

But I don't think it's honest. I think you know it's multiball, that's why you want me speedlynched when it becomes clear. I'd probably do the same if scum. Why speculate if it's multiball, when you can sit back and wait for someone else to?

[DOMO]

my ex wife has the dog but at least i still have my cat

Wait, what the fuck? You get the shit animal while she gets the good one? I'd give up the kids, house and car before the dog. A cat is worth a piece of art, and not a very good piece at that. Unless it's a cat that plays chess. Does the cat play chess?

[DOMO]

Actually, this current version of the wagon was started by Zdenek voting for the "slip". You had hopped off earlier.

This is true. I breifly voted for ank, then voted for you again. That doesn't mean that the only reason I voted for you again is because of the language issue that zdenek pointed out. Do I really need to go over that ground again to justify my vote?

You knew that your reason for hopping on our wagon (the "slip") was opportunistic, so you had to bring other reasons into play, none of which you mentioned upon your revote

Lots of votes can be perceived as opportunistic. Seeing as I was first to vote for you today, I don't see this as one of them.

Essentially, you made up reasons to stay on the wagon when you realized your current BS reason couldn't sustain it.

This is an outright lie.

I see you've dropped the "Bulb's Stevie vote was baseless" line of attack.

I haven't. My initital reaction to your vote was that I didn't like it, it pinged pretty hard, along with zdenek. It's certainly a contributary factor. I still assert that town would be more likely than scum to reassess their reads based on night actions. You did not.

He's essentially saying that we are scum for refusing to partake in a bunch of WIFOM speculation concerning the NKs, and instead decided to scumhunt.

No, my attack began as a result of you refusing to acknowledge the night actions. It's not the only reason I voted for you. So you're not scum just because you didn't take into account night actions, you're scum for other reasons I've pointed out, cheifly because you're lining up my mislynch when multiball becomes obvious.

In fact, my main point of contention was the fact that you FoS us only after you realized you had been tunneling Zdenek so long for something that both of us had done, essentially making sure that you weren't called out for being selective.

I was tunnelling zdenek? Only because he was active before you. I had every intention of engaging with you both.

Or you can use the 2 kills to say that we're in multiball so it looks like you're town who's legit scumhunting.

This argument is heavily flawed. I've already explained why. Why would scum get towncred for scumhunting when town are aware of the possibility of multiball? Town cred only exists for scumhunting when town do not consider multiball. If I'm scum, I'm using the multiball comments to look like town speculating, not to give my scumhunting credit, because it discredits my scumhunting. Hence, the scum motivation is thin.

There is if you are trying to convince town that you are town who is scumhunting in an effort to gain town points.

But if town know scum are scumhtuning, why am I going to get town cred for scumhunting if I'm scum? Like I say, a heavily flawed argument.

As you can see, by saying what you said when you said it, you were clearly implying that we were in multiball, not that we might be in multiball, a distinction which I clearly caught and pointed out.

You have interpreted my comments in a way which gives you ground for attack. This is misrepping, and it's doesn't look like a town misrep to me.

Why don't any of them make sense as vig. targets?

Because neither were particularly scummy. There's many better targets imo. That's just my opinion, hence it being my opinion that we're multiball.

Basically, your case seems to be my speculation and WIFOM. These are very null tells for me. Do some rev meta and find me a game where I don't speculate and talk WIFOM.

I'm still convinced you're scum. What you're doing here, imo, is exactly what you're accusing me of... using legit scumhunting to give yourself towncred. I suspect you are scum who thinks I'm on the other scum team. You're wrong.

[DOMO]

Bulba I'm not going back and forth with you all day. I've explained myself. The scum motivation for me speculating on multiball is thin. If I'm scum and know it's multi, then I probably don't even bother posting for a while, I was busy much of day one, I could've got away with it for longer. But I had time and there were flips to discuss. You're using language against me now. That can come from a town position and you know it. I was quick to recognise that I was wrong to consider your language thing as a scum tell, something you're keen to use against me. I'm not going to have a tiring to and fro with you bulba, I'd sooner just be lynched. I've shown why your argument is flawed. You want to dismiss it as WIFOM, fine. But WIFOM is hardly a scumtell, certainly not with me. Neither is speculating. Neither is flipflopping with my vote. So I feel no reason to explain myself to you any more. I think you're scum. You should be explaining why you felt hawk was hitting his stride. Did you explain that? Pull it up for me if you did, I can't remember and I'm lazy.

[DOMO]

Also, dripping goofball makes perfect sense. How did we not figure that one out?

[DOMO]

Stevie, why no read on me? You liked bulba's attack enough to vote for me, so how come he's in your scum list and I'm omitted altogether?

[DOMO]

and that Scumlist is just awful.

Why is it awful? I certainly agree on BRO, kingcrabd is leaning town but I'm far from convinced, and zdenek I've only recently decided is probably town. This isn't a million miles from where I'm at.

But yeah leaning town with serene and definitely town with orc, that's pretty funny actually. Orc probably is town, but no way is he definite. And I'm still struggling to see how people are not buying the mason claim. If "that was premature" isn't the most naturally genuine response in the world, I don't know what is. Not only is it highly unlikely that scum would make such a fakeclaim, but dram's response is fucking expert if it's fake. They are masons, I don't know how it isn't obvious to everyone.

This is one reason I think bulba is scum. It's better for scum if town are in doubt about the masons, especially if serene are pulling their shit together. I can't see how someone who is showing he approaches the game logically can consider it to be a viable fakeclaim. It's up there with the stupidest of day one fakeclaims.

Bulba seems keen to cast doubt on a what I see as a confirmed townie who is scumreading him. I can only think of scum motivation for that.

I'm happy with my vote. BRO is also more than acceptable. I'm not hating a baby spice or koopa lynch either. Stevie I was thinking was mislynch bait, but I'm not liking his recent reads list, the bulba scum read and missing me out is not consistent with his voting pattern today. So that's acceptable too. That's the pool I want to lynch from today.

[DOMO]

hi i'm confirming i'm here

did we get any PR info out yet because i don't want to read 118 pages

Hi. Here's the tl;dr of this game so far...

Blah blah blah serene claims mason with dramonic, dramonic makes no denial, more blah blah blah, some people still don't believe the mason claim, blah blah blah. No other claims I'm aware of. I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

At the risk of sounding crazy, I agree with BRO that shadi's post is more town than scum. I mean it would be a really dumb post as scum, wouldn't it? I dunno about anyone else, but when I'm scum I have a tendency to preview my posts and try to think about how they're going to be perceived by people. Shadi didn't seem to do that here. It's not a slam dunk town tell of course, I don't think I have any meta with shadi, but it seems like a stupid scum post, so I'm leaning town.

I need to look at ank again. I'll do it later. At the moment I think I prefer koopa out of the two, this ank wagon has built pretty fast, which is concerning.

pedit - yeah that

[DOMO]

I like being told to shut up in multicolour.

pedit - yes I am, sorry if that confuses you

[DOMO]

My only other question, especially if we're dealing with double faction, is why none of them were nightkilled, but fuck if I know. If it's SK it's optimal SK.

Ok I've read this four or five times now and every time I read it the same...

I think we're scum team and SK vs town, and this is scum talking to the SK.

vote koopa

[DOMO]

Actually that line of thought is retarded. Why the fuck would koopa want the SK to know he's scum?

ok

unvote

, I'm just being paranoid.

[DOMO]

Seems even more retarded if he's SK, it goes against his wincon because scum can pick him off easily. At least if he's in a team, he can still win after dying. I dunno. I need to not be drinking cider when thinking about it.

[DOMO]

Yeah I just ISO'd ank and I'm not into that lynch. The strangest thing he's done was to call me town until he suddenly voted for me without reason, but then he explains his vote and he's right that my FOS at him was basically shit. So I'm not hating his stance on me at that time.

koopa, on the other hand, has pinged a fair few times, and the SK comments that I alreadyc ommented on just don't sit well. So out of the two, it's a clear choice.

vote koopa

[DOMO]

I would still be more than happy with a bulba lynch. They're still scum.

[DOMO]

Unvote, vote RiftAdrift.

Go ahead. Ask me.

I'll bite.

What the fuck is this?

[DOMO]

You mad?

I agree with your points on trying to engage. That bickering was making it tough for me to get into it. But the fuck am I going to let people ruin my enjoyment. Dude you're hardly new, you been here 7 years, is this really such a tough game relatively speaking to get into?

fwiw this looks uber fucking town. I just can't see why scum would post this.

[DOMO]

We shouldn't forget to lynch The Goat, sooner rather than later.

That's an awesome fake rant if he's scum. You're not getting my vote any time soon on goat.

[DOMO]

You're not getting my vote any time soon on goat.

Yeah I know. You're all really vocal about who you DON'T want to lynch.

I'm also vocal about who I do want to lynch.

[DOMO]

Wow, stuff happened.

I smell a rat. If they have daytime talk, they could've hatched a plan to save koopa. If one flips scum, the other is an easy lynch. He couldn't wait to claim, he kept hinting he was PR before.

unvote

Time will tell.

Ank's flipflopping here confuses me. But I don't intend to default onto him.

vote bulba

[DOMO]

Is "they" someone specific?

Yeah. Them.

[DOMO]

koopa is pretty convincing, I'll give him that.

Maybe my hypothesis is silly. But I'm naturally paranoid when it comes to gambits.

[DOMO]

Why is ceph defending me so hard? You're the doc slot, right? I went after doc pretty hard d1, I've backed off you a bit but you should be at least a little bit suspicious of me if you're town.

Ceph could be scum trying to bring me down when he flips.

Anyway, bulba...

Of course I'm attempting to discredit you. I think you're scum talking out of your arse.

If you think my paranoid comment is fake, then I assume you feel the previous comment is fake too? You're suggesting that I'm faking retarded town thought process to gain town cred?

And how am I trying to get a town PR mislynched? I notice you didn't quote my unvote of the very same town PR in the very same post. That wouldn't suuport your bullshit case though, would it? Check some rev meta, see my first game where rapid canyon scum pulls out a cop guilty on some guy I can't remember the name of. I smelled a rat then. rapid won lylo becuase I hammered majiffy. My paranoia of these kind of gambits is natural.

I didn't critisise the mason claim because I think it's a retarded fakeclaim. This gambit of cabd's wouldn't be retarded, seeing as it saved koopa to the point he's almost confirmed town. There's potential scum motivation there. But hey koopa claims 2-hshot vig and he didn't shoot, so there's two scum teams to pick him off. I don't expect him to last long, scum or town. So I'm not intending to push for his lynch at all, the idea I'm trying to get a PR mislynched is ridiculous, because how the fuck am I going to talk the town into that? You think I have that much sway?

bulba, you're really stretching now.

I can switch to cephrir though. I don't think anyone has defended me so much before.

[DOMO]

Yeah I'm waiting for marquis to clear things up before thinking too hard about this claim.

And ok ceph, it's just that's not the first time you've countered bulba's points against me before I've had chance to. It's annoying at best, and scummy at worst. Last time someone tried to buddy me hard, it was uberninja in posh. He was scum. So that's why I find it supicious.

[DOMO]

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Well vote for me then. I won't argue with a DOMO vs bulba race. If I die, ceph shoots bulba, problem solved. No town roleblocker will stop ceph shooting bulba. I'm confident enough bulba will flip scum. I don't care which way round we die, so long as he flips scum. If he gets lynched and flips town, well ceph should probably shoot me.

I like a BRO vs bulba race more though. That's scum vs scum imo. I'm happy on either of these.

[DOMO]

ceph, koopa, they're similar. Easy mistake to make.

[DOMO]

I think it's BS but marquis is being fishy too.

[DOMO]

Yeah sorry about the references to xeno, I was very careful to not talk about anything that could compromise it, but I'm learning even that isn't ok. I took note of sonic's ban, I don't want to fuck the mod over like that with sloppy talk, so my apologies for even lightly referring to xeno.

orc, I'm flattered.

[DOMO]

You were actually right on a lot of reads in xeno

I just found one post where you nailed BRO GIF TD and voted 2 in the next post

But your reasoning looks really messy a lot of the time

I'm not stupid but I smoke a lot of weed and drink my fair share of cider. Of course my reasoning is messy!

And rift, it's summer, I'm spending less time in the house, I'm putting in as much time as I can. That summary took me all of a minute. I know I can be lazy sometimes in big games, but I'm trying to keep up here. I make no apologies for my efforts. There's a lot of people doing much less.

[DOMO]

@mod - V/LA for the weekend, back sunday night/monday morning

[DOMO]

Ugh I'm too tired now, initial thoughts are the night kills don't seem to make any sense. I don't understand why they're not picking off claimed roles or rift, orc and crabd. Something's amiss here, because if these three are town, and the claims are true, then they're running pretty thin on places to hide.

And let's not allow TMT to hammer himself to deprive us of talk. I'd like to catch up before the day is out. Plus I want to see if TMT's defence is "i'm miller" or "i'm not scum you are".

[DOMO]

Ok well seeing as koopa was quick to claim the stevie kill, and no-one has countered, I think we can safely say koopa is confirmed.

Ankamius - claimed cop
Serene - claimed mason
Thirdkoopa - confirmed vig
dramonic - claimed mason
Baby Spice - cleared by ank

orcinus_theoriginal - town read
KingCrabd - town read
Rift Adrift - town read

TMTOLBTWNTOF - scum

That leaves...

Cephrir, Slandaar, StubbsKVM, jon_h61, BROseidon, Shadi1337, Baezu.

I'm assuming there's at least 5 scum left to find, and based on claims and townreads, I've narrowed them down to a pool of 7. I don't have a great deal of faith in this, looks to me like we have either a bullshit claim or scum in my townreads. If all the scum are in this group, they have to kill off the claims or leaders. But they didn't.

I think there's at least one from each faction in the town bloc, because neither faction felt any urgency regarding trimming the town bloc down. koopa is confirmed now. ank, I'm not so sure about him. He was in trouble when he claimed, so he could be taking TMT down with him. The masons, I just still can't believe they'd fakeclaim like that on day one.

So right now I'm thinking two of ank, rift, orc and kingcrabd,
and probably 3 in Cephrir, Slandaar, StubbsKVM, jon_h61, BROseidon, Shadi1337, Baezu.

I'll tear the thread to pieces when we get more flips.

[DOMO]

Why do you want to hear those defenses?

I wasn't being entirely serious. I don't care what his defence is. If he's town, he dies knowing he takes scum down with him. He's obviously getting lynched, whatever he has to say. Doesn't look like he's going to say anything to be fair.

[DOMO]

wtf is this vig dram noise?

Shooting dram is wasting the bullet. There's two scum factions here, so even if dram and serene are both scum, the other faction will target them eventually. I don't see how serene and dram can win as scum by fakeclaiming mason on day one of a multi-faction game.

I'd sooner be shot that one of the mason claims. That at least removes an unknown and furthers my wincon. Orc should be thinking along the same lines if he's the same alignment as me.

I agree with serene, orc is scum.

[DOMO]

4 explain why dram is not viggable

Post #4098, the one you ignored where I say dram is pretty much conf town, and even when he's scum one of the them gets picked off by the other faction before it becomes critical. Vigging dram is as stupid as a day one mason fakelclaim. The bullet should be used to thin down the pool of unknowns, not to confirm serene as mason when it gets confirmed in good time anyway. I expect you to reach this conculsion all by yourself.

I'm failing to see any town motivation whatsoever in asking for dram to be vigged. It makes no sense. Seems to me like you want a free NK.

[DOMO]

Seems to me like you want a free NK.

Scum motivation.

[DOMO]

The real reason orc wants dram shot is because orc knows it's optimal for koopa to shoot at ank, orc, rift or crabd, seeing as I have shown why there's a good chance there's two scum in there, while there's probably 3 scum in the remaining 8 (the 7 I named plus myself). Doesn't take a genius to figure out which group has a higher success rate. If orc were town in that group of four, he should be asking koopa to shoot at that group, because there's a good chance of hitting scum, and even if orc gets shot, he would recognise his townflip helps us immensely. That is unless he disagrees with the idea that the NKs implicate the town bloc heavily, but he has already said that he finds the kills weird, and has turned on rift and crabd. So why does orc want a claimed mason shot when it has a near zero success rate, instead of shooting at a group of four with a 50% success rate? Because he's scum who doesn't want to get shot.

You're right ceph, it's a little absurd to think that orc thinks he can actually get dram shot. But seems to me that scum fucked up with their kills last night, and so it's more or less forced. Orc really doesn't want koopa firing at his cosy little town group. It gives him less places to hide. And firing at the larger group either bags scum, or removes a potential mislynch. I expect orc to be a little more subtle with his scum stratgey, but this isn't solid town strategy he's spewing at us.

He's either derp town or scheming scum. I find the latter much easier to believe.

[DOMO]

Will you marry me

Um... are you wealthy?

[DOMO]

Why do we still have all our cleared townies?

masons - still not seeing them as scum, just doesn't make any sense to me
koopa - his claimed shots are not being countered, he's vig
ank - TMT's scumflip looks very good for ank
babyspice - looks good by virtue of ank looking good

I'm starting to seriously consider the idea of babyspice being godfather.

I also think there's a very high chance of there being scum between rift and crabd, possibly both.

Interesting observation... the entire dead list is vanilla or goon... it's gonna be tough for scum to fakeclaim vanilla in a massclaim.

Quick orc ISO shows he was scumreading crabd hard yesterday. Skim of TMT + doc + ceph scum ISO didn't really help me, it just muddies the waters. I swear ceph scumreads and townreads the entire player list at some stage. TMT and doc were not active enough to get much from.

I think we should consider massclaiming. I want to ISO those who are currently unclaimed, but it will be more productive to do this after a massclaim, if that's the route we take today. So I'll wait for some chit chat before getting to work.

[DOMO]

I believe Crabd and Rift are my strongest town read, where did DOMO go? I was OK with him but now he's not around much..

no pedit?

[DOMO]

Yeah there's obviously drawbacks. But seeing as we already have 4 claimed and one cop cleared, it's going to take scum some time to work through the list. And knowing if there's a doc or not can help us to determine what happened to the third kill last night. If we don't massclaim today, and then go on to mislynch, I think we have to massclaim tomorrow.

[DOMO]

Let's start then. Shall we have Crab first?

Also, who's everyone thinking of lynching today?

If I were to vote now it would be for crabd.

[DOMO]

Oh sweet Jesus, what the fuck is that?

[DOMO]

I'm not even going to try and work out what's going on there until dram posts. This makes even less sense than you both being scum.

[DOMO]

vote dramonic

[DOMO]

I feel like we should stop the massclaim for now.

[DOMO]

I feel like I owe orc an apology. He was right when he said vig dram, but that was probably what got him shot, and I certainly played a role if that's the case.

[DOMO]

gyah I'm fine with finishing MC today. Still gonna advocate the "let's not end dayphase prematurely" philosophy.

I don't see how it helps town, seeing as we now have a clear lynch. It certainly helps scum to carry on claiming. I think we should reassess the massclaim tomorrow. I felt it was advantageous today based on there being a high chance of scum in the cleared. Seems we have that scum without the need to force our PR's to claim.

crabd's RB claim looks good on the surface, seeing as the cop wasn't blocked.

And yeah babyspice looks better now.

serene, you realise if we get a mafia flip, you're fucked tomorrow, right? On the other hand, if we get a SK flip, then serene is looking very good. So this way round definitely feels like the right appraoch.

[DOMO]

This still doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, why in fuck's name would dramscum go along with serene's bullshit mason claim? You just post "lul wat? I'm not mason".

unvote

I'm gonna sleep on this. Don't quicklynch, don't anyone claim.

pedit - lol

[DOMO]

vote dramonic

He's always scum here, he must be. I have no idea what was going through his mind when serene claimed mason, that conversation can wait until after the game. Yes I too would really really like to read serene's hydra QT, it will be a scream.

[DOMO]

Wait, dram's gonna try pulling a serious defense?

What's your role then?

He's claimed bulletproof town. That's a scum claim if ever I saw one. He's relying on us thinking he was targetted last night. He might well have been, but fact remains in a multiball game BP mafia or SK is a distinct possibility.

He should've nipped this in the bud long ago. I don't think he needs to insta counter serene's claim, he can go along with it for a while, but waiting for us to begin a massclaim is scummy as hell. I at least like the fact that serene dropped this before a massclaim picked up pace, and the one PR claim we got was probably going to be necessary anyway. I think if serene is scum, then she sits back and waits for more claims. That's what dram was doing. He posted not long after serene confessed, he was actively lurking through the massclaim and had no intention of putting the brakes on it. Obvious scum.

Serene will need to be reassessed, and probably not allowed to live until lylo. But dram's flip will help, I mean if he's a BP SK then we at least know he's not serene's scumbuddy.

From the wiki BP page...

In games with Serial Killers and/or Vigilantes, one member of the Mafia is generally Bulletproof so as to grant the team some measure of protection from being routed at Night. As Townies are not generally Bulletproof, this is only a small respite as the shooter can find a way to claim a guilty result of some kind on the Bulletproof Mafioso.

BP town is not a claim that is going to save him.

[DOMO]

Fakeclaiming mason on day one and then later throwing your partner under the bus doesn't seem like a stretch. I've only played with any of your heads once that I'm aware of, DGB replaced into my only scumgame here, I don't remember her fakeclaiming but to be fair I think we'd already massclaimed by the time she replaced in.

I don't like that you allowed orc to get shot for suggesting koopa vig's dram. You've waited until koopa has no shots left... this is sketch.

I can't see how we can leave you until lylo.

[DOMO]

Yeah ok that adds up.

[DOMO]

Ok dram, you're going to pretend to not be scum, that's cool, I'll play along.

Why, if you're town BP, did you not think it's better to immediately call bullshit on serene's claim, and play strong town to try to entice the scum into NK'ing you? Why sit back and watch serene clusterfuck the thread with spew while we mislynch people who she is pushing for? Why did you sit back and allow orc to take the crap he got and untilamtely take the vig's bullet when you KNOW that he's actually onto something when he distrusts you?

If you can show me the town motivation for your play as town BP, maybe I can remove my vote. I might also eat my ears.

[DOMO]

Serene, do any of your heads think that pretend claiming masons with a random is something you might try as scum? What about with a scumbuddy?

My problem here is that you have this amazing idea that ank is scum because lol who looks up TMT (who looks up babyspice too?), but you expect us to believe that your ridiculous mason gambit came from town. This could appear like you're trying to increase the pool of potential lynches.

Let me be clear serene, you're ahead of ank in my willing-to-lynch list.

[DOMO]

Just did an ISO of ank, and he explains his babyspice investigation by saying that he tends to investigate people he has a hard time reading. Fair enough. As for TMT, ank was scumreading him and while I think TMT was being scumread by a lot of people, he wasn't picking up enough votes to be seriously in trouble, so again this investigation seems to correlate with his posts.

I'm not getting a fake cop feel from ank. It's risky to claim cop when scum because I don't think I've ever played a game where there's more than one cop, with the exception of my first game, which was diffusion of power, ie everyone is a night specific doc or cop. So if he gets counterclaimed, he's toast. The only benefit to claiming cop as scum is to draw a real cop out. This hasn't happened. So unless ank got lucky fakeclaiming cop in a game with no cop, I'm not buying him as scum.

I'll try to get through some more ISOs today.

pedit - let me be even more clear with you serene... I don't think you're scum. But I'm less convinced ank can be scum. If he is, then kudos. Yeah if he's still around at lylo, then questions need to be asked. If I find myself at lylo with ank and someone else, I won't be snap voting that someone else. But for now he's firmly in my town pool.

[DOMO]

babyspice ISO didn't take long... she is legit scummy, her votes seem to be on whoever is in the most trouble at that time. She's either town, scum with ank, or godfather.

If I were godfather, I'd be wanting to play in a scummy way so that the cop investigated me. This seems to correlate with her voting pattern. Babyspice also suggested that serene could pull off a mason fakeclaim as town, which might suggest she knows it's fake.

I doubt very much that she's scum with ank. I don't think I've ever seen scum fakeclaim cop and then clear a buddy. So most likely either town or godfather.

I'm not convinced babyspice is clear, but that should play itself out, so I'm not suggesting we lynch her any time soon.

[DOMO]

Your ISO is too big serene, and I need to do some housework instead of wasting the day in front of the computer. Kindly link me to your crumb.

[DOMO]

Yeah that crumb does make sense. Babyspice's comment about you pulling this fakeclaim off as town is in reaction to this crumb.

Dram's flip is going to be important. We have to remember he could be SK, not mafia, and in that case there's not going to be anyone who can be certain this mason claim is fake, other than of course serene and dram. If he flips mafia, well I suggest that those who remain ISO everyone else and look carefully at the reactions in general to the mason claim.

[DOMO]

Orcinus KNOWS I'm town, and somehow I've pulled off fakeclaiming masons with some random player, WHOSE ALIGNMENT HE ALSO KNOWS.

That crumb.

[DOMO]

dram...

Ok dram, you're going to pretend to not be scum, that's cool, I'll play along.

Why, if you're town BP, did you not think it's better to immediately call bullshit on serene's claim, and play strong town to try to entice the scum into NK'ing you? Why sit back and watch serene clusterfuck the thread with spew while we mislynch people who she is pushing for? Why did you sit back and allow orc to take the crap he got and untilamtely take the vig's bullet when you KNOW that he's actually onto something when he distrusts you?

If you can show me the town motivation for your play as town BP, maybe I can remove my vote. I might also eat my ears.

[DOMO]

#4475 is totally unnecessary. The orc kill was fine based on the information we had at the time. You might disagree rift, fair enough, but I'd have shot orc if I were vig. He looked like scum at the time and he was going to be tough to lynch. Stevie kill is fine because lot's of people suspected him. Koopa has missed town PRs. He's doing a fine job imo.

koopa is our most confirmed townie. Please let's not ask the person who should be leading the town to sit down and stfu.

[DOMO]

lot's

I hate bad apostrophes. I deserve a slap.

[DOMO]

#4475 is totally unnecessary. The orc kill was fine based on the information we had at the time. You might disagree rift, fair enough, but I'd have shot orc if I were vig. He looked like scum at the time and he was going to be tough to lynch. Stevie kill is fine because lot's of people suspected him. Koopa has missed town PRs. He's doing a fine job imo.

koopa is our most confirmed townie. Please let's not ask

the person who should be leading the town

to sit down and stfu.

Syr will disagree with you on the necessity of that post, I imagine.

Totally disagree with the bolded. There are other candidates if we are looking for a town leader.

You

would make a better town leader. ThirdKoopa plays like a newb and he's been mostly depending on other people's reads. Consensus followers aren't leaders. Leaders step up and lead, they don't wait to be anointed.

See my problem right now is trust. There's pretty much only koopa and to a lesser degree ank who I trust. Your rant at koopa just seemed like an attempt to push him off the pedestal and take his place. No disrespect intended to koopa, I recognise you're a stronger player rift, but I also think you're good enough to lead the town as scum. I want koopa to lead the town simply because I am 99.999% sure he's playing to a town wincon. That's not to say we blindly follow his lead, but we at least let him say what he wants to say without slapping him down. I don't recall you beating your chest at serene so strongly, and I wonder if that's because you were happier with her leading the town while she continued to play the mason card. There's potential scum motivation in this. Help me out rift, if you've vented your frustration at serene this strongly then you can put to bed those doubts. Serene is certainly more deserving of such an attack.

Yes I might be also a better town leader candidate, however you should be trusting koopa more than me.

ThirdKoopa, what did you mean by "So I don't pull a day 3 again"?

Yeah I'm not liking babyspice. Why higlight this comment of koopa's? I saw it first time round and thought it was best left. There's no need to cross examine koopa. What she's doing here, whether she knows it or not, is rolefishing. Koopa, please stop responding to this line of questioning from babyspice. She might be trying to figure out if you lied to us about 2-shot.

And agree that dram's BP claim is awful, especially full BP. If I were town BP, I'd fakeclaim something that would have scum wanting me dead. Or just claim vanilla if I'm worried about outing a real special. He's obviously our lynch today, and he's obviously scum. I'd also like to not lynch him in any hurry though, I want to get through ISOs of those who are left before the day is out, if at all possible.

pedit - pfft

unvote

[DOMO]

Domo, please explaine how asking TK to clarify a comment can be considered role fishing?

It's there in the post.

Koopa, please stop responding to this line of questioning from babyspice. She might be trying to figure out if you lied to us about 2-shot.

rift, I get you're in a much better position to read orc than I am. My meta is limited to xeno, where I was utterly surprised by his scumflip. I didn't like him yesterday because he wanted dram shot. I feel pretty stupid now for thinking like that, but meh to hindsight. I kinda wish serene confessed yesterday. It doesn't matter if you derail a scum wagon with another scum wagon. And it might have saved orc.

[DOMO]

I have no reason to doubt that koopa is vig. If he lied to us about how many shots he has, then good for him. So no, it doesn't matter. Not unless you're going to push it as a scumslip, in the sense of not having his fakeclaim in order. But until his kills get counterclaimed, he's town. There's no need to question his motives at this moment, and I don't expect that to change.

[DOMO]

Baezu is scum.

For now:

unvote

I think so too, but we're still lynching dram today, we need his flip more and he's almost certainly scum, although the way this game has played out so far I really wouldn't be all that surprised at a mason flip.

Fuck it, I got time for one more ISO before bed, I'll look at brian and baezu.

brian... mostly fluff. Totally null on him. He claims scum at one point, I don't really consider that a tell either way.

baezu... aha...

I definitely think the Jon slot is scum and cephrir's posts today were super scummy too.

next post...

VOTE: TMT

So he's either not red scum, bussing hard, or town.

Yeah we're definitely lynching dram today, not baezu.

[DOMO]

I didn't realize that voting letters after a cop guilty was such a strong town tell.

Yeah I had a stupid moment. I didn't even think about the timing of the TMT vote, I just saw it in his ISO along with ceph suspicion. I was pretty tired when I posted last.

Your only case as far as I can tell is that I didn't call BS the moment Serene called me his mason. Which the more I think about, the more it proves the exact opposite.

Not really. It's not that you didn't immediately call BS, it's that you waited four days, sat back and allowed her to lead the town when you know that she's lying to us about her claim, allowed orc to take heat for telling us that you should get shot, when you know he was right to distrust you, you sat back while we begin a massclaim, and then emerge pretty quickly when serene stops the massclaim by confessing that you are not both masons. You then claim town BP, which is immensely scummy, meaning regardless of your role, we have to lynch you. If you're scum BP, we can wait for the other scum team to pick you off, can we?

Fact is, you're scum way more often than town here, and on the rare occasions you are town, we still need to lynch you thanks to your not-very-smart town BP claim.

Not immediately calling BS on serene's claim does not prove you are town. That's ridiculous, to be frank.

If you're town, you would probably recognise the shitstorm of WIFOM that leaving you results in. You would recognise that this is bad for town. If you're scum, on the other hand, you've got nothing to lose now by vaguely trying to stop your lynch. You know you have no defence, but you might as well try, just in case we're stupid enough to leave you. Sorry, we're not that stupid.

[DOMO]

ebwop -

If you're scum BP, we can wait for the other scum team to pick you off, can we?

*can't

[DOMO]

Prod received, sorry guys busy weekend. Will catch up in a few hours.

[DOMO]

I am going to go ahead and claim today because once we flip I'm worried that that our results crumbs won't be found in this monstrous thread and our huge quantity of posts.

We're town tracker.

Night 1 we tracked orcinus and he went nowhere.
Night 2 we tracked Metal Sonic/Slandaar/Penguin Alien - and he (Slandaar at the time) went nowhere.
Night 3 we tracked Crabd and he visited orcinus (as he has claimed).

So this is the most interesting thing I've missed then?

We're missing a kill, you tracked someone to a corpse and your first instinct is to go "sounds legits"?

Oh and this.

I'm not fully recovered from a weekend of drinking, so I'm not putting too much thought into this right now because thinking hurts, but I like rift's claim, it feels better than crabd's, and I like rift's response to dram's rambling.

Rift showed surprise at koopa's claim to the orc shot...

>i shot orc
FML
It's a sad day when the SK (or second mafia) is doing better than me >_>

BUT YES I WAS RIGHT ON CEPHRIR

What the fuck.

So this correlates with their claim. Yes rift could be scum tracker, and that should certainly be considered if rift is still around at lylo, but it's not very likely imo.

I'm happy enough that rift is town. I'm less confident about crabd but I would expect a scum RB'er to block the cop, so I'm still thinking town with crabd. But the missing kill could easily be crabd shooting the same person as the vig. I'm not sure if we can prove it one way or the other, so lynching him might be necessary.

dram is amusing me. I won't be so amused if somehow he flips town.

I'll hammer within the next 24 hours unless anyone not called dram objects.

[DOMO]

I would expect a scum RB'er to block the cop

except, you know


the fact that the cop claimed 2-shot


-k

Ank was able to investigate TMT on n2, even though he was already claimed. If crabd is scum RB'er, then I can only imagine he was worried about a watcher.

[DOMO]

No but they surely block a cop who is scumreading ceph and TMT, regardless of the risk of watcher.

[DOMO]

Wait never mind ank wasn't scumreadong ceph, he was townreading him.

I dunno, I can't see how not blocking the cop is enough to clear crabd, and the orc track is incriminating. He'll probably need to go before lylo. What concerns me is there's a growing list of people who probably need to go before lylo.

[DOMO]

You at the top of it DOMO.
I invite you to finish me off, I enjoy getting hammered without anything remotely ressembling a case. Ill die hoping that your idiocy isnt quite THAT contagious

SO ADORABLE

Hammering you will be like stamping on a kitten. An evil kitten.

The case on you is getting stronger by the minute. Where's your reads list? If you're town, at least die helping us out. Haha I nearly kept a straight face as I typed that.

[DOMO]

If I were scum I'd have selfhammered a while ago.

OH MY GOD HE'S RIGHT IF HE WERE SCUM HE'D HAVE SELF HAMMERED LIKE WHAT EVERY SCUM EVER DOES AT L-1, QUICK EVERYONE REMOVE YOUR VOTE BEFORE SOMEONE DERP HAMMERS.

vote dramonic

Oops too late.

[DOMO]

What the fuck? Only one kill and it's jon? After dram flips fucking town BP? This game is making less and less sense by the day.

Thanks mafia for doing us a favor!

I too don't like this comment. Seems more natural to say scum, rather than mafia. This could be a genuine slip.

I'm also not liking crabd for not waiting to claim his block. This does not seem to correspond with town blocker who just saw one less kill than expected. He should be insta suspicious of stubbs and want him to claim before telling us he tracked him. So I'm leaning scum with crabd.

The jon kill is all kinds of wtf. There's one possible reason for it I can think of, which I'll elaborate on further after we've claimed. I'll say this now... I'm not buying anyone other than koopa as conftown at this moment.

[DOMO]

Yeah that's massively strong, we'd have to expect scum to have a strongman if this claim is true.

I'm vanilla.

Baezu please.

[DOMO]

I was gaging reactions to claiming unspecified shots, hoping for somebody to get caught fishing, I don't have a limited number of shots at all.

Claimed PRs:
Ankamius - 2 Shot Cop (Used Up)
Baby Spice - White Mage
KingCrabd - INF-Shot Roleblocker
Rift Adrift - Tracker
Thirdkoopa - 2-Shot Vig (used up)

Claimed Vanillas:
Baezu- VT
BROseidon- VT
DOMO - VT
penguin_alien- VT
Shadi1337 - VT
StubbsKVM - VT
Serene - VT

The only PR that could be a lie would be if Baby Spice was a SK worried a kill might have been tracked there and needing to explain it away.

I think we're too strong.

Ank gave us TMT guilty. He could be hard bussing him, but he'd have to worry about other scum NK'ing him. Plus we've had no cop cc, so ank looks like he's honest.

babyspice has been cop cleared and has claimed a town protective role with no cc. Her action claims make sense. I think it's very unlikely babyspice is faking.

crabd has claimed town RB'er. We all know this is also a common scum role, and we'd expect scum RB'er to fakeclaim town RB'er. Crabd's actions can be both town and scum actions. Scum would need to have some defence against the immense strength town has in BP + self protecting doc. RB'er is one method of defence. So I'm expecting scum to have a RB'er and/or strongman. But town might have RB too. There's value and risk in regards lynching crabd today. On the one hand, if he's scum RB, we remove a scum defence against babyspice. On the other, if he's town RB, we lose a valuable weapon. So crabd needs to be assessed today.

rift's claim again has gone uncountered. Tracking crabd to orc proves that rift at least knew that's who he blocked. Rift could be scum tracker, and it's even possible for rift and crabd to be scumbuddies here. But the latter seems very unlikely to me. We're missing a kill from last night and the claimed tracker was protected by the claimed mage. So I'm leaning town heavily with rift, but she's not as confirmed as babyspice koopa and ank.

koopa remains our most cleared townie. He's claimed his shots, there's no doubt he's town vig imo.

So of the claims, crabd is most likely fake, rift could be but probably isn't, and I think we have to accept ank, koopa and babyspice as conftown, and simply hope that if any of those three are scum, we hope they get NK'ed.

So imo we add crabd to the vanilla claims and that's our lynch pool. We need to be ISO'ing those in the lynch pool. I'll do crabd tomorrow when I have more time.

[DOMO]

There was a missing kill on n3. Babyspice claims she protected serene n3. If we're to assume that the protection lasts two nights, then babyspice self protected on n2. It seems that one of the following happened... serene was attacked and protected, babyspice was attacked and protected, or crabd shot the same person as koopa. I think it's looking likely that crabd is scum.

vote crabd

[DOMO]

Hmm... I just thought of something... does anyone know if a scum RB'er would be able to block and kill on the same night? I'm under the impression they can't, but I'm not sure.

Point is, if scum RB'er cannot kill and block same night, then if crabd is scum RB'er, he could not have shot orc unless he didn't block him.

Rift tracking crabd to the orc kill might not be so incriminating after all.

[DOMO]

so it doesn't at all clear him in my eyes.

No it certainly doesn't clear him, but I'm less sure if he's optimal lynch for today. I can't see scum RB'er being the only weapon they have, we had town BP too. So I doubt killing off scum RB'er today guarantees protection for babyspice.

If we don't kill crabd today, then rift should seriously consider tracking him.

I've been saying this for most of the game

But it's a flawed position based on the fact that if crabd is scum roleblocker, than he's probably not the one doing the killing. So it looks like crabd did indeed block orc, regardless of his alignment.

On another note, I'm going to be away on holiday for most of the next month, at the very least two weeks of it, probably three. Therefore

I have asked the mod to find a replacement for me

. My apologies for this guys, I only expected to be away for a week when I signed up, plus I was expecting to be hydra, so I didn't expect it to be a problem.

Here's my thoughts on those who remain...

Ankamius - claimed cop, cleared babyspice and nailed TMT, very probably honest.
Baby Spice - cop cleared, claimed white mage, protected rift, spice, serene, rift, very probably honest.
Baezu - claimed vanilla, brian hollywood's replacement, baezu made that recent "thanks mafia" comment which pinged pretty hard, probably scum.
BROseidon - claimed vanilla, seemed scummy as hell to me through days one and two, has been much better since, leaning town.
KingCrabd - claimed RB'er, blocked bluba n1, shadi n2, orc n3, stubbs n4... I'm leaning scum on crabd based purely on his claim, but the orc track isn't as incriminating as first appeared. He needs to be analysed carefully, his ISO is too big for me to bother doing this now.
penguin_alien - claimed vanilla, previous owners of this slot metalsonic, slandaar and marquis. This slot will need to be analysed carefully too, it's hard to get a read when the slot changes hands so often. I'm pretty much null here.
Rift Adrift - claimed tracker, tracked orc n1 (went nowhere), slandaar n2 (nowhere), crabd n3 (visited orc, as claimed), jon n4 (nowhere). The missing kill on n4 on a night where a claimed tracker was protected, it looks like rift was targetted and this increases the chances of her claim being honest. Heavily leaning town.
Shadi1337 - claimed vanilla, pretty large ISO, I'll have to leave him to you guys and my replacement. I'm leaning scum based purely on numbers.
StubbsKVM - claimed vanilla, missing kill looks bad for him since crabd claims he blocked him, but with rift protected and likely target, he's not confscum. Plus, crabd could be lying about his n4 block, expecting rift to track elsewhere. Again, leaning scum based on numbers.
Thirdkoopa - claimed vig, claimed his shots, not countered. Town vig 100%.
Serene - claimed mason unclaimed mason claimed vanilla... I have no fucking idea what serene is or what they're smoking.

Lynch pool from my pov is baezu, BRO, crabd, penguin, shadi, stubbs, serene. Throw my slot in there and we're facing something like 4 scum in a pool of 8.

I'd say if there's 4 scum then most likely they appear to be baezu, crabd, shadi and stubbs, but BRO, serene and penguin all could be scum. If there's scum outside of this pool, then I feel we need to get lucky to win.

I'll remove my vote for the benefit of my replacement,

unvote crabd

I feel that's the best I can leave you with. Again, my apologies for replacing out. gl town.

[DOMO]

YEEES well played BRO and pidgeon. I really didn't want to replace out of this one but it wasn't fair to allow me to take three weeks off, so I had little choice. Seeing pidgeon replace me and get the super doc lynched, that was pretty awesome! I enjoyed this game a lot, even after I replaced out.

gg all, thanks to the mod for an entertaining game.

[DOMO]

Yeah that's massively strong, we'd have to expect scum to have a strongman if this claim is true.

I'm vanilla.

Baezu please.

Heh this is where I crumbed bulletproof

[DOMO]

Hey DGB, what if I told you that I was BULLETPROOF TOWN this game. ; )

AP, did you know I crumbed BP and was planning to claim it if you looked like getting lynched?

[DOMO]

I wouldn't claim it to save myself. I'd claim it and insist in twilight I was town BP just to amuse myself as I die. That was the only reason I crumbed it.

[DOMO]

I thought the only way we can get rid of babyspice is for crabd to block her, knowing he's gonna be tracked. But if we lost crabd then we can't beat babyspice. That lynch was essential really, because if not babyspice, good chance it's crabd. The only other hope was the SK had a strongman and knew we didn't.

[DOMO]

but his replace-out post was a work of art that I will not soon forget.

lol I actually felt kinda bad when I saw how much town cred I gave my predecessor. I simply asked myself how I'd replace out as town, and did what I had to do. Knwoing that I could only die through lynch, I was a little concerned pidgeon would be allowed to coast, but he scummed my slot up nicely so I felt less bad about it!

[DOMO]

lol I actually felt kinda bad when I saw how much town cred I gave my predecessor.

Yeah I can see how stupid I am. I don't even know what word I want instead of predecessor. At least I can spell predecessor, at least I think I can seeing as I have no red underline.

[DOMO]

Also I laughed way too much at the image PV decided to use for Serene's death.

Yes, me too.

[DOMO]

I tell you what though, if I've learned anything in the last six months, it's that BRO is always scum and should be PL'ed on day fucking one.

BRO, my apologies are due to you for comments I made to my brief hydra partner on day one... I said to him you were our "weakest link" and that's why I was happy to bus you so early. I can say with all honesty though that I'm very pleased to be made to look stupid there.

[DOMO]

Is BRO always scum?

[DOMO]

I remembered what the opposite of predecessor is... successor. I smoke too much waccy baccy.

[DOMO]

I only just noticed that the other game exploded. Woops.

I don't see how TSO's comment sheds any light on serene's role in this game, more to the point TSO couldn't have known serene's role. What am I missing? This whole episode seems entirely unnecessary. Yeah TSO deserved force replace in his other game and maybe deserves to eat a ban. That's it. GreyICE totally overreacted in his game, and it seems to me that crabd overreacted in here. I don't get it.