Mafia 56: Hardcore Street - Game over!

[Zindaras]

I'll try to get a re-read in as soon as possible.

[Zindaras]

I'm not feeling very good about the way this game is going. We have no idea if we've even lynched a mafia player yet. Just thinking about it now, it seems like the mafia has an incredible advantage in a game like this.

I'll go ahead and

Vote: Twito

for his stupidity yesterday...though it's no uncommon.

The numbers are different. Fewer Mafia.

A quick re-read suggests that Twito is an idiot and that I agree with Glork's attack on him.

Idiocy is fun and games, right up till the point where you hurt the town with it.

I think Twito could be scum. Not sure if I'd like to have my vote there, though. I need to get in a deeper read.

[Zindaras]

This is a silly game.

A quick voting analysis makes me feel olio and Canuck may be good targets. Olio was on the SL-lynch and was really quick to vote Twito today. Canuck is very Twito-lynch-eager.

Battle Mage is playing like his good ol' self. Which I don't really like, as always.

Irrumator's giving off some town vibes, though I could be wrong on him. I do feel that Mariyta is town.

Battle Mage is defending olio. Could be scum together.

Thinking olio/Bm/Canuck as scum at the moment. Thinking Twito/Irrumator/Mariyta as town.

[Zindaras]

BM, Canuck, or olio. Oh, decisions, decisions.

Olio's vote on SL was very very tangential. Putting someone on Lynch-2 for that is not something I see town do.

Ergo,

Vote: olio

[Zindaras]

Noes, not Mariyta!

[Zindaras]

Okay, yeah, that really does it.

Unvote, Vote: Canuck

I really dislike that particular piece of bandwagoning.

[Zindaras]

Okay, yeah, that really does it.

Unvote, Vote: Canuck

I really dislike that particular piece of bandwagoning.

Yeah? What about:

Lol. Ok, I like the

Unvote, Vote BM

Wagon a lot better. Twito still is annoying for hammahing.

More or less it's everything bad in Canuck's post without any of the reasoning.

Oh, yeah, that one's bad too, but I don't have a clue who cpe is and what he's done before in this game, so I wasn't going to vote him for that. You are however correct that I should also have posted a

FoS: creampuffeater

.

[Zindaras]

Lame.

Well, maybe we can go and lynch Canuck or olio tomorrow.

[Zindaras]

Battle Mage was obviously town. I'll have to take a look what cpe did before his death, but I feel okay with a

Vote: Canucklehead

[Zindaras]

Ah, screw it, Twito's always a sweet wagon, and he totally killed me in one of my games.

I liked that game, Twito. I liked it.

Unvote, Vote: Twito

[Zindaras]

I demand a hammah. Right now.

[Zindaras]

*sad*

I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to actually hammer him.

Anyway, now we have to sit down and think before lynching Canuck.

[Zindaras]

Yeah, but it was funny.

[Zindaras]

Sweeeet.

Except if you're lying.

[Zindaras]

The problem is, of course, that I find myself agreeing with many or all of those investigations.

[Zindaras]

Olio, a full explanation for those targetings please.

[Zindaras]

Furthermore:

Simenon, any reason for your vote?

Why?

Day Two, you are very aggressive regarding irrumator, who you have already found as town, even FoSing him in 223. Why?

I want those answers before I make up my mind whether or not I believe this claim.

[Zindaras]

Vote: Canuck

I can see a link between Canuck and milkman. I think Canuck is scummier than milkman, so I want him to go first.

Olio's claim is believable, and most of his play so far in the game is believable in the light of his claim.

[Zindaras]

Yes, it is convenient. However, have the scum kills been logical? Hardly. I would've expected one or two of those players to be dead already. Also, if you take a look at his play D2, it makes sense.

[Zindaras]

There is no godfather.

[Zindaras]

Mafia. Cop. Doc.

Those are the roles. I'm under the impression that the setup is open. Adding a godfather'd be pretty mean.

[Zindaras]

You're dead.

Hi.

[Zindaras]

Why is Canuck still alive and is this game dying?

[Zindaras]

Unvote, vote: milkman

Zindie no buy.

[Zindaras]

Look at your list: two people are still alive and Twito was the scummiest player in the game. You claimed after Olio said you were scum.

Bah, I'll go and

Unvote

and read the thread for consistency tomorrow.

[Zindaras]

I "naturally" think you're a liar cause I know my alignment, and you're saying I'm scum.

Is it really that hard to figure out?

He's not saying you're scum. He's saying you're not cleared as town.

Therefore, your assertion that he is scum because he's saying your scum is pure OMGUS.

[Zindaras]

I would be seriously surprised if there's still 3 scum left. No-reveal is already skewed towards the scum, and 4 out of 14 would be very unfair.

[Zindaras]

Has to be 3/14. I'd be really pissed if it was 4/14.

[Zindaras]

Going on a full re-read:

Post 63, SL calls out Canuck. Post 150 Twito distances himself from milkman. Canuck switched from Twito to BM Day 2.

I'm definitely inclined to believe olio right now. Therefore, I should

Vote: milkman

[Zindaras]

Mod

, please prod all non-voters.

[Zindaras]

Cheesefan, for god's sake, kill milkman.

Ancalagon, you're free to be wrong, but you'll have to give reasons for it.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: I feel forced to point out that the only confirmed townie at this stage is voting milkman. Important note.

[Zindaras]

Who's confirmed? What if they're both Mafia with you?

And what's next? Irrumator's Mafia with olio, milkman and me?

You still haven't given any reasons, Ancy.

[Zindaras]

Unvote

Let's not argue in a 3-3 with 4 to lynch.

[Zindaras]

Let you unvote so nobody can hammer the guy out of nowhere.

Kay?

[Zindaras]

Ancalagon, just unvote so we can argue this out instead of shouting at each other when someone can hammah at any moment.

[Zindaras]

Olio, and maybe cheesefan or Zindaras are the scum. I have my doubts about cheesefan, by the way Zindaras pushed Ancalagon to unvote. Then again cheesefan is nowhere to be seen.

In what way do you have doubts about Cheesefan? As in "thinking he could be town" or "thinking he could be scum"?

[Zindaras]

So because I pushed Ancalagon to unvote I'm scum? That's a bit odd, don't you think?

[Zindaras]

What a pile of steaming poo.

Why the hell would there be 4 scum in a 14-player game? In a normal set-up, 25% scum is advised. 4 scum would be a lot higher. The fact that it is a non-reveal game is only in favour of the Mafia.

No, there were only three scumbags.

Your "case" against me is pretty funny, too. Irrumator's done pretty much the exact same thing as I have (vote milkman, not ask questions), but he's confirmed as town in your book.

I don't see a reason to buy a doc claim when all it says is "lolguyz i'm the doc".

Your reasons for saying N9V is town are also tangential. Replacements do not make people more likely to be town. Glork had to be replaced due to busy schedule (if I'm correct), Cheesefan disappeared from the site, and I do believe the same happened to Maximus.

[Zindaras]

Why the hell should we believe you? The doc went unclaimed for ages.

The fact that no one counterclaims you doesn't make you the doc

.

MoS, SL, Raj, cpe, kinkster, Canuck, olio, irrumator, cheesefan (N9V now, I believe), milkman, Ancalagon, Zindaras.
Scratch away olio, milkman and you. It's more than 50% chance that the doc was already dead, even not taking into account the fact that because the role went unclaimed, the chance that the role is still in the game is minimal.

[Zindaras]

Hey, and what did Zindie say?

Sweeeet.

Except if you're lying.

I

did

take a look at the validity of milkman's claim. See Post 311, 325. I've reread the entire thing.

You avoided posting after olio's claim (and most definitely didn't say what you just said you said after olio claimed Cop), and so when milkman comes in and counterclaims, you can safely defend him without looking like you changed your mind. Also, you apparently thought that the liar had to be olio, "naturally", without giving any reasons. Olio could still be the real cop, even assuming you are town. I already pointed that out.

[Zindaras]

Ok, granted, you did look at milkman's claim. All I remembered was your initial post that said "Zindy no buy" and you voted. However you did unvote and review later on. Maybe scum realizing he's being too anxious?

Or maybe town realizing that he shouldn't speedlynch.

And I never avoided posting after olio's claim. I have a new job(which I stated in my first post after many days, and both cop claims), and I rarely get to come on for long.

Yet you did not, as you said you did, state that the absence of a counter-claim does not mean that Olio is talking the truth, as you said you did, and as I did.

Canucklehead(me) realizes that the more claimed roles we have, the better chance of nabbing scum with a smaller list of suspects.

Your claim does not narrow down the list of suspects

. It was not something the real doc would do.

He claims his role(doctor), stating who he thinks are scum. He's right, and Zindy and Olio get over-aggressive in a hurry.

Over-aggressive? Who's been pushing for olio's death? Who never even considered that olio could possibly be talking the truth? That's you right there.

[Zindaras]

Sure, that could be said. But I don't buy it.

Well, if you're simply going to say "I don't buy it" to anything disproving your train of thought, you're always going to be right.

Um, I'm being serious as a heartattack right now. I have no idea what you just said...

Why the hell should we believe you? The doc went unclaimed for ages.

The fact that no one counterclaims you doesn't make you the doc

.

You think I don't know that?! I basically said the EXACT same thing about Olio claiming cop.

As I said, you didn't say that.

Says you. I really think my claim helps narrow down the suspects.

And how does it do that?

Only problem is, the only person posting right now is scummy, and of course that person wouldn't "believe" a genuine doc claim. This is ridiculous.

No sane townie would immediately believe a doc claim at this stage in the game.

Again, I think you got excited about killing milkman and then decided to back off before people got on to you. Yes, I've been pushing for Olio's death cause

that's who I think is the false-claimer

. I know you're gonna say you think milkman is the false-claimer, so we're at an impasse. Also, I did consider Olio's claim. I considered both in a post which I considered both cop claims and then came to a conclusion. I believe it's on page 13.

I see you point out your own hypocricy.

Also, your entire train of thought for saying that olio's the fake claimer relies purely on me being scum.

[Zindaras]

You hardly

disproved

my train of thought. You gave another option, one you'd LIKE me to believe, but I don't.

And you hardly disproved my train of thought or gave anyone any reason to believe yours.

Oh, silly me. I thought that I may have earned enough credit as townie in the lynchings of sure scum in Twito and BM that someone may have actually, you know, BELIEVED me.

Oh, so now BM is scum too? Where's your proof for that?

Regarding Twito...I voted Twito. Milkman voted Twito. Olio voted Twito. Everyone and their mother voted Twito.

Also, if you are so sure that BM is scum, you shouldn't be saying that I am scum. A simple understanding of balance dictates that there is only 3 scum in this game.

I know you're hoping that anyway.

I see that instead of rebutting my points, you're simply going for attacks against the person.

Not completely. I was already leaning towards voting Olio when I had my "fifth and final thought" in my train of thought post. Call it a gut feeling, but I thought it would be extremely smart of the mafia to false-claim cop and go out on a limb hoping the real cop was already dead. It's ingenious really, cause it throws suspicion all over the place.

And it would also be extremely smart of the real cop to claim at that point. And it would also be pretty intelligent for the Mafia to counter-claim the real cop.

Plus, if no sane townie would believe a doc claim at this stage, why should that same sane townie believe a cop claim, hmm?

Hey, and what did Zindie say?

Sweeeet.

Except if you're lying.

I did answer that. You may think it's bad logic, but here it is again:

I think max # of scum is 4. I think Twito and BM were scum. I think you and Zindy are scum. This equals four.

As I said, the max amount of scum is 3.

PLUS, the fact that N9V's role has been replaced four times, which gives me the

impression

that it is an unpopular role...a townie role.

Which is crap. For one, Cheesefan has apparently left the site and is getting replaced everywhere. For two, as far as I know, the same goes for Maximus. For three, Glork has talked much about trying to get his amount of games down. All the replacements are explainable.

Also, being replaced is

no

indicator for being scum. Read this thread.

[Zindaras]

And how do you know? I know it would be really unfair for there to be 4 scum, but you keep carrying on like you "know" straight up that there are 3 scum.

Every setup needs to be looked at for balance. That's why we have backup mods. Inhim and voidybuns aren't idiots. They know that even without the no-reveal mechanic, 4 Scum, Cop, Doc, 8 Townies is skewed towards the scum.

Assuming there is 4 scum is false and detrimental to the town. 3 scum is simply by far the most probably setup. I'd give it a 99% chance.

I'm not really sure what that proves. There really isn't sufficient data to come to a clear conclusion.

The data that is there says that it says nothing about someone's alignment. If you can give me more data saying the opposite is true, then I'll accept that.

[Zindaras]

The best strategy is to lynch the cop we think is fake today.

[Zindaras]

*Beep*

Your conclusions are completely wrong, as the Mafia can simply choose not to kill the real cop even if they're not protected to set up for a Cop-lynch the day after, or they can kill one of their own to "clear" the other. They can set up whatever WIFOM-game they want. Allow me to simply show it:

There are two possibilities you suggest.

Protect the Fake-claimer, the Real-claimer gets killed, so the Fake-claimer is scum.
Protect the Real-claimer, both survives, so Fake-claimer is scum.

But, as I said, the fake-claimer can simply choose not to kill either in the first situation. Therefore, the second scenario is also obsolete, because the second scenario's results could also be a result of the first scenario.

[Zindaras]

You call that a corrected vote count? *giggles*

SV: You didn't see that. Curse you and patrick who keep spotting my errors just when I'm correcting them..

[Zindaras]

I just can't see the mafia leaving the real cop alive any longer, now that they know who he is. It wouldn't make any sense, with so few people left. If Olio/Milkman investigates scum, it's pretty much over for the scum. It may seem like a anti-logical move, but if we followed my plan, I just cannot see the mafia leaving the cop alive. Way too risky for them.

They can simply leave the Cop alive and we'd still be in the exact same position as we are today

. We won't know who the real Cop is until the game's over.

Oh, god, and let's have the "real" cop investigate the "fake" cop, too, that's bound to get an interesting result.

You are simply trying to chisel away at olio's support so you can lynch him tomorrow.

[Zindaras]

Olio, definitely.

Vote: Olio

All his "investigations" are of people already alive, which isn't reasonable. Also, if he's scum, Zindy is scum.

Appeal to probability.

There is obviously a certain chance that all his investigations will stay alive. A quick calculation (I'm not sure if it's correct) shows that there is a 27% chance for this occurring, though.

Add to that that not all of his investigations are alive (Twito's dead), and I don't really see why it's unreasonable.

[Zindaras]

It was fun having you around olio.

[Zindaras]

Ancalagon, I'd like you to respond to Post 400.

BM, thanks for the heads-up.

[Zindaras]

I don't understand the purpose of your little argument there, Ancy.

[Zindaras]

Vote count, please.

[Zindaras]

Hi.

Vote: thorgot

[Zindaras]

This one's fairly basic. Either the game is unbalanced and irrumator, olio and milkman were all scum, or N9V is scum.

I see nothing making N9V looking especially good, so I'm going to

Vote: N9V

.

Irrumator, if you're going to vote me, please, post reasons before doing so so I can respond first. I don't want to lose this one.

[Zindaras]

Eh, I'd prefer it if you'd wait a day. I think I can find someone to jump in.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Also, I'll

Unvote

for now.

[Zindaras]

Yeah, it shouldn't be over. But let's have it be over anyway.

Vote: N9V

[Zindaras]

*high-fives BM*

How did we win this game?

[Zindaras]

Hmm...pies. I want apple pies.

I suppose Olio was the Cop and N9V/Twito/milkman the scumgroup, but who was the Doc?

[Zindaras]

Four scum? That's ridiculous! It's a 14 player game! I mean, you'd expect 4 scum in a 16 player game, not in a 14 player game with an additional anti-town thing (the no-reveal part).

Also, who was the doc?