NY 173: Knight-Errant 2 - GAME OVER!

[Turkish Van]

VOTE: Lords of the Undead

There is only room for one royalty and that shall be me!



I'm the evil queen.^

[Turkish Van]

yay for rvs!

Vote Blue

because hes the only person in the game I remember

You know me, but I'm just in a hydra.



But, Hi, I'm Mala also known as the Evil Queen this game. This is how you'll tell Peng and I apart.~

[Turkish Van]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

Scum lurking by not confirming.

Hmmmm.

This is my first game with a "hydra." What are they and why do people do them? Lol

Two players in one account who share the same role PM. They are fun and a learning experience.

This is my first game with a "hydra." What are they and why do people do them? Lol

6 months and you don't know what a hydra is

...what rock have you been living under?

A PineApple Under the Sea.

Need to talk to Peng, but starting not to like Bob.~

[Turkish Van]

Nope.

I'll start spoiling my sigs.

[Turkish Van]

Other head checking in. Early reads:

Town:

jbomber--liked his early willingness to go against the grain with a Hopkirk town read and his seeming to be happy at knowing someone in the game from his comment to Mala.

KK--I like his forthrightness out the gate, and his annoyance with notscience running interference reads genuine. Glad he moved on from kvetching about the hydras/anonymous hydras. But I don't follow his reads list in 157. Especially having Bob and Hopkirk as town?

Antihero--very tentative read given how poorly I usually read him, but his attitude is pretty casual, willing to confront scum suspects without getting bogged down. I'd like to see more of his reasoning, but at least it seems to be there as in 77

beastcharizard--not resting on his Hopkirk vote. He's still trying to sort him more definitively and discussing the read with other players. Town who wants to get it right, not scum happy to coast.

GreyICE--willing to put him as town for now. Pushes feel sincere with about the level of support I'd expect from him.

PV--engaged PV is likely town-PV. Not worried about him beyond that, as I tend to think I read him better the deeper into the game he goes.
Scum:

Bob--avoids engaging on points, like the coaching accusation. Dismisses people citing earlier games of his without elaboration.

Hopkirk--worries about justification for a vote from GreyICE on page three. But not worried about all the other votes on relatively flimsy pretexts. Also way more interested in 'winning' arguments than trying to communicate. This isn't a town mindset. (...which is what Antihero is saying. More points to Antihero-town above)

Katarina--mild scum read. Just not liking the half-assed Antihero scum read she pulls out to ignore the criticism of her joining the Hopkirk wagon.

-----

Twisted Advice, as per 45, how much stock do you put in your gut reads? And what on earth did you (Vizier) like about our 33? Mala quoted a post with no elaboration, explained what a hydra was, and made some jokes while citing the need to talk to me without moving our vote. Iago-head not liking the first quote rings way more authentically, and I don't get why you'd feel differently.

Katarina, why so much fluff, proportionally speaking? Why are you scumreading Antihero?

MonkeyMan, why this:

You're right.

A) I am town
B) I didn't read the setup, and corrected my mistake.

So it seems Grey is claiming Jester without a Jester as a role?

Your open-ended question about Grey claiming Jester draws no conclusion or line of inquiry really, so why ask it? Do you think it's a scum move from him or not?

Guzame, you read all eight pages, and the most interesting thing you found was that there were hydras? So, the OP. If you're really that interested in the merits of hydras, there are MD threads for that. Comments on the game content, please.

VOTE: Katarina LeBlanc

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Your open-ended question about Grey claiming Jester draws no conclusion or line of inquiry really, so why ask it? Do you think it's a scum move from him or not?

I was trying to get a responce from other players. I like to get other people's opinions before I draw conculsions for the most part. I don't necessarily think it is scummy, but I do know Jesters are rare on this site, so it is suspicious.

So what did you get? What's your current read on GreyICE?

--PA

[Turkish Van]

eh, jbomber reads a lot more newb to me
i don't think so

This is my first non-newbie game, so I'm a bit confused with some things, such as hydras. But I'm a quick learner and hopefully you don't judge me just because im less experienced.

Just think of hydras as one player, but sometimes they don't always agree with each other reads, but others tend to take the discussion in regards to that elsewhere and not in the thread.

Also, I'm curious though, why do you care what others think of you?

Twisted kind of looks town.
Anti is probably town.

PV isn't lurking so it is worrying me some.

Hopkirk is scum.

I noted the same thing with PereV. My last completed game he ended up being engaged and active and I thought it was a towntell for him and it turned out he was some type of third party. So here's where my read with PereV kinda meshes up with yours. I'm not going to be so quick to call him town, but I'm not going to be so quick to call him scum either.

I actually like Twisted for town.

I'm not sure if I agree on Hopkirk, but I need to go grab some old games on his playstyle.

The same goes for you because you seem to have improved from our last two encounters in the enchanted forest. (This is a good thing.)

It was clearly RVS. Metal was the only one not confirmed at that point so I used it as my fun reason.

I know the following players from another site as well:

notscience
Katarina
Hopkirk
Metal Sonic

I like choosing them as my RVS targets if I am in a game with them.

Can you explain your reads please? Kat has said like 2 things and Metal has said like 1 thing yet one is slight scum and the other needs more? Neither have posted content so i am curious how you got those reads. I agree with the jbomber scum read only because they played the new card and their reads don't make much sense to me. How is Hopkirk town exactly?

Ftr, someone playing the newb card doesn't make them scum.

Early Reads:
Townish: Bicephalous Bob, Twisted Advice, Hopkirk

Need further study: Lords of the Unreal, mafiaSSK, burn_209, Metal Sonic, notsience, Turkish Van, Guzame?

slight scum: Katarina LeBlanc, beastcharizard, Antihero, MonkeyMan576

Strongest scum-feelings: GreyICE, jbomber732

Where's PereV at all in this list as you seem to not have put his name in a list. I don't agree with the quick scumread on BC, can you explain that for me? Also how is Bob a townread?

@kk I voted bob in the RVS, not because of any scumread. I already said that before. I mentioned that I thought there was someone in the game named blue and I voted for them cuz i dont lke that color. I realized there wasnt and changed my RV. I'm sorry that I can't expand my townread on hop, but i get town vibes from him.

I don't really like this post at all. When you first posted your RVS I thought maybe you accidentally slipped in RVS'ing a buddy and his name is different in the mafia QT than it is in the game. There's just something about this post that I don't like at all.

It's more of a gut whoever doesn't agree with me is probably-scum and I didn't like the tone of his posts reading back :3

I dislike this post also, does this make me scum?

bringing the heat

VOTE: katarina leblanc

O-oh no senpai

I also hate how you reacted to Antihero, but ignored the vote placed on you by my partner.

jbomber brings up a good point. There has been lots of activity so far not to have any scumreads.

FOS: Guzame

I dislike this fast sheep. Baaaaaa goes Prince Charming before he was Prince Charming.

PSA: Monkey is town

Explain please?

*sigh* Ok listen. Just because I don't act the way a town should most of the time, doesn't mean that I'm not town. Frankly, I act so scummy, and I even know it. You can ask mala, who in a previous game saw this exact thing happen to me. That's why I was excited mala was here, because there'd be someone who knows how I play, and wouldn't be so fast to jump on me.

Shush about this game. Do not reference it again until I let you know it's safe to do.

(You aren't allowed to reference ongoing games even in the slightest. You are new so this is your first warning, but the next time it happens it won't be a warning. So, please don't reference anything until you see a title "Game Over" in the game you are referencing.)

Spoiler: Mah siggy

[Turkish Van]

Ok I think you're mala, so the reason I said that I didn't want anyone to judge me for being newbie is that I thought it might influence their reads in some way. I voted for "blue" because for some reason I thought there was someone named blue in the game. Also, what is a mafia QT? In the game where I was mafia I don't remember a "QT" And sorry I didn't know that I couldn't reference other games. But what I said doesn't really matter at all does it?

I am Mala, why would I lie to you about that?

You keep changing your reason for your RVS vote and can't keep your story straight, you do know that right?

yay for rvs!

Vote Blue

because hes the only person in the game I remember

This was your first post and your RVS. You voted them because it was the only person in the game you remember.

Then you quickly unvoted when you realized you slipped up and your reaction was pretty bad:

nvm who is blue.. i dont even know.

VOTE bob

Then you added here that you voted them because you didn't like the color.

@kk I voted bob in the RVS, not because of any scumread. I already said that before. I mentioned that I thought there was someone in the game named blue and I voted for them cuz i dont lke that color. I realized there wasnt and changed my RV. I'm sorry that I can't expand my townread on hop, but i get town vibes from him.

Anyways, I decided to pull up the only mafia game on this site. You probably don't remember the mafia QT because you never posted in it. it's here

Also what you said does matter. We can't speak regarding it so don't reference it again until it's called. You are a new player and I like you. I rather not see you suspended for a rookie mistake like this when it can easily be avoided.

Spoiler: Mah Siggy

[Turkish Van]

Hey Mala

You and peng should have a long discussion about the following topics

1) Why isn't ns in our townreads yet

2) When we put him in our townreads do we put him in the "holy fuck he's town" slot, the "obvtown" slot, or the "holy fuck he's obvtown" slot

Can someone on the hopkirk wagon (I'd prefer one of the later votes) explain why it's a thing? "Bcoz he's scummy" is not an answer.

Why do you care about our opinion that much? But sure, we'll call you town as long as you keep amusing us. Gut doubts you'd throw yourself onto our radar like that as scum. More seriously, you do tend to become clear cut sooner rather than later, so I'm not overly worried about you wriggling away.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Then both of you get your heads out of your asses and put your vote on something that isn't lynchbait

Do you see MafiaSSK as non-lynchbait?

Kublai Khan, given your deteriorated read on Hopkirk, how does that impact your take on beastcharizard's interactions with Hopkirk? And I kind of follow what you mean about Hopkirk having odd logic patterns. Things like claiming that one vote was a reaction test does seem to come from a town mindset of wanting to incite interaction/reactions, even if the execution is shoddy. What I'm having trouble deciding is whether this is genuine or scum covering for a bizarre play. I seem to recall seeing newish players claim to be reaction testing before and capitalizing on their unclear execution as scum, so I'm interested in hearing what parts of Hopkirk's postings you think are town motivated.

As far as Bob goes, his play reads as incredibly anti-town. I don't see anything in particular that makes me think he's town, but I'm also not sure what motivation he'd have as scum to play that way. Mala was saying in a brief convo that Bob has played this way as scum before, but I want to look into it myself.

Grey, I'm not sure about Khan right now; I agree that his stances are less than solid, but I'm also seeing some genuine attempts to figure people out in the process. I disagree about jbomber quite a bit though. His reaction to you calling him out on not voting doesn't read scummy. He eventually places a vote but didn't exactly leap to appease you in the process. I'd expect scum to move one way or hte other, especially with the slight town read on you he professed right around the time you called him out. Brown-nosing scum seem more likely to do that along with placing a vote, or get paralyzed and not vote at all.

Antihero, you discuss the appeasing thing in 237. Looking at it along with his subsequent play, do you still think jbomber is scum trying to placate his critics?

Katarina, why do you make no attempts to convince others you're voting scum or engage with anyone?

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Grey, I'm not sure about Khan right now; I agree that his stances are less than solid, but I'm also seeing some genuine attempts to figure people out in the process. I disagree about jbomber quite a bit though. His reaction to you calling him out on not voting doesn't read scummy. He eventually places a vote but didn't exactly leap to appease you in the process. I'd expect scum to move one way or hte other, especially with the slight town read on you he professed right around the time you called him out. Brown-nosing scum seem more likely to do that along with placing a vote, or get paralyzed and not vote at all.

this would be good if khan was... i don't know.. an "intermediate" player (like me)

given his join date, i would think his scum game has advanced beyond that

what i said before about beast and the hard line defense of bob bugs me, but you're saying that you think it's an attempt to figure something out?

What gets me about Kublai Khan's stance on Hopkirk and beast is that he doesn't have a clear read on Hopkirk any longer (citing post 174 as bad enough to throw his town read on Hopkirk into doubt) but he's still drawing conclusions about beast from beast's interactions with Hopkirk. The logic presented is disjointed in a way that could come from scum being artificial or town considering multiple angles. That he pings as town for other aspects of his play (willingness to be antagonistic, mostly) makes me lean town in his motivations.

Bob comes off as low-hanging fruit upon first read, and if one was more sold on other scum reads, I could see dismissing him as such. But there's such strong anti-town play there that I don't buy town-Bob. Kublai Khan wanting a case on him does show a lack of motivation, given how straightforward Bob's ISO is.

I guess what it boils down to is that I want to see where Kublai goes from here. Right now the town vibes are overriding the questionable content for me. And IIRC, the last time I saw Kublai play, he was in a Pick Your Poison game as an IC who got run up to the point where he claimed D1. I didn't read the game carefully due to limited duration, but I'll put it on the list to see if there's overlap between here and there.

actually, just had a look at khan's profile and it's about comparable to mine. i have a pretty unusually crappy scum game, though.

whatever. the last line of the above post still stands. my general point was that any scumbag who isn't terrible could pretty easily evade penny's scumtells

...I think we've established that I at least read you for shit when you're scum. Your call if that's more due to my lousy town play or your selectively good scum play; I'm not picky.

We're still working with limited info here given early Day One, and I tend to think that scum still have general motives and goals regardless of scum tells' accuracy.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Penguin and I have been discussing Jbomber. I was pushing something at first that I thought could be a scum-slip, but Jbomber's following posts after that read town. So no more discussing that. Jbomber is town as simple as that.

Jbomber, please do not discuss anything else related to the other game. Not even that we share a QT. We are both on thin ice right now. Please, please I ask this of you.

Everyone else let it go or else I will throw a fireball at you and I'm not afraid to do it.

Spoiler:

https://24.media.tumblr.com/7009043fa48 ... o1_400.gif

[Turkish Van]

And your summary of the Pick Your Poison game you saw me in is inaccurate. I played in a way to get myself run up Day 1 because I was an Innocent Child. I figured it was a free Day 1 bandwagon. I'm going to assume that your description wasn't an attempt at a misrep.

Like I said, I didn't read the whole game because I replaced into the claimed one-shot cop slot overnight and the last scum got quicklynched the next day. Just checked out the generalities of what happened. Interesting choice to get yourself run up as the IC, but one can hardly argue with the outcome of a game that lynched all three scum by the end of Day Three.

So I'll assume that you're quite capable of not being scummy when town, good to know.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

@PereV:

You do know your scum list is mainly composed of those who haven't posted much and/or lurking. In fact, I personally don't like it.

Also the fact majority of your posts interact with Hopkirk yet you have him placed at what looks like a null read, why is that?

Spoiler: mah siggy

[Turkish Van]

Why are people not voting to lynch Khan?

I really am curious.

PV - your list is the most confusing thing ever

I don't really see Khan as scum.

If you say your case is based on meta can you link me to games that back that up, please?

Spoiler: siggy

[Turkish Van]

notscience, current Bob read, and MafiaSSK take?

jbomber, why does Guzame replacing out invalidate your read?

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Sorry, I have been dumbfounded by the lack of activity. Bicephalous Bob, Hopkirk, beastcharizard, and burn_209 would all be fine lynches in my book.

Don't like this post~

You are amazed by the lack of activity, yet your last post was like 2-3 days and yet you are also to blame for this lack of activity because you come back with posts like this that have zero substance of scumhunting~

Spoiler:

[Turkish Van]

1) This is day 1, how much content do you expect?

2) I was plenty active at the beginning of the day, there is no rule saying hyperactivity is the best way to catch scum.

3) What exactly have you done to scumhunt?

1) Enough so we can analyze information on flips. What do you expect for a large game?

2) You might have been active, but you certainly weren't aggressive. I never said hyperactivity, but hell better showing of scum hunting from other players would be grand. There's some that are doing nothing and fading into the background and no one is doing anything about it.


3) Are you expecting to magically gather a scum flip by doing nothing?

More than you, apparently. Enough to gather that we have niggles of varying degrees of reads. Others we want to see more from.

@Mod:

Can you prod the people that need prodding.

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

I'm not just taking random guesses. I'm at least debating and calling people out about posts/lists/reads to get reactions to get myself one step closer to figuring out who's scum and who's town.

I have a similar playstyle, but I don't just observe because I engage before I come to conclusions.

But yet again... you are missing my point entirely.

My point is you are amazed at the lack of activity. Partly bitching about the lack of activity and being a hypocrite at the same time because you are helping to contribute to the lack of activity by not being active as much as you can be.

[Turkish Van]

Previous post from Mala.

MonkeyMan576, I assume your stances on Bob and Hopkirk haven't changed. But what about beastcharizard and burn_209? beast still doesn't seem like scum to me, and nothing about burn stands out as scummy. Frankly that Katarina's on beast is enough to keep me the hell off that wagon right now.

jbomber, the question is though that when you voted Guzame, he also could have been dumb scummy town, as you put it. Him replacing out doesn't change that, and it's not like your single vote was going to crush the spirit of the replacement player we get.

Twisted Advice, PV-wise, I've seen him play on the passive side as scum or town. I tend to think that deviations from that are more likely to come from a town place. Yeah, he was more pro-town in Anything Goes as a third party entity, but he also had a lot of cover with some very loud scum and town players. Mala might disagree, but I'm inclined to take advantage of PV being pro-town in his activity, even if I'm watching for signs I'm being misled. If he's scum I have faith in being able to figure it out eventually.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

^ You forgot us. I know, we're very boring.

Why are a lot of your reads in the form of assuming people are good scum? It's an odd characterization.

Mala/PA what are you guys thinking regarding (beast, Katarina)

I think beast is town. Mala isn't 100% on that. Katarina-wise, I'm sticking with the vote for now because I just can't stand the way she's reveling in not playing the game. The sticking point I'd that I'm not sure scum have motive to play like that. But such a thought goes double for town, so then I'm back to wanting her dead.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Greetings and Hello everyone!

Sorry that guzame didn't post anything of content.

Ashmed Tell, 100% autolynch

Vote: mnemonicdevice

Free day 1 scum lynch

Everyone

Sheep Ashmed

Applied properly, it never fails

I saw this too. If there was any doubt I felt you weren't town it's gone now. I think you're town.~

Also I'm getting weird feelings about the bob wagon now. Not sure if its due to who's on it or how fast it built or both.

VOTE: mnemonic

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Alrighty, now that I had time to actually sit down and take a quick skim of ALL Mnem's game that he has replaced into in the past is that as town he has not come close to dropping an Amished Tell like he did. The closest thing however to it was this:

Alright. I didn't get to read again this morning, but should tonight. I will post then.

Also, I side with Jason on that TSO did nothing wrong.

Which in itself is different.~

I'm actually a lot happier with my vote on him than I was when I casted it at lunch time.

~

@Ns:

It's more something to do with GreyICE and I being a MasonLover in Cabds game. Just this game his approach is very similar to how he approached that game. Although we were confirmed town to each other and had day talk there so we were in constant contact with each other. He's scum hunting and it feels genuine to me and his response to meta is the same too~.

[Turkish Van]

mnemonicdevice, your analysis is recapping players' ISOs, not analysis. And interacting with a player, challenging their reads, or questioning them doesn't make them a scum read. Mala's a bit leery of MonkeyMan576 last we actually talked about him (this was some time ago) but I'm not scum reading him myself. I do want to get more info from him.

Your play here though is anomalous. I've seen you in a few games now, although not for more than a single day phase ever, but always as town. And your posts have had some attempts at analysis, not this busywork tone.

Mod, the PA head will be V/LA through 4/9. Hopefully more LA than V, but we'll see.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Two things:

One: can someone tell me what the amished tell is? is it on the wiki?

Two: I still don't understand why some people think I'm a better lynch than bob. Instead of claiming, he stalled until votes moved somewhere else. And, he hasn't even attempted to be remotely helpful.

It's basically when a player comments on the scummiest of the processor after they have replaced in.

[Turkish Van]

I lied. I always forget I am on this game and forget to read it

Fucking sick of this shit. if you join a game then play it, if you don't want to play then replace out. This goes for Kat also and those who aren't playing like they should.

[Turkish Van]

I don't get why there's a wagon on Bob, explain please?

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Oh man I get to be first.

This is the second game I've seen Grey die n1. PeregrineV died first as well in the 1st Knight's Errant, right? ThIS mUst BE A CLUE

Grey wasnt in the last game.

PereV replaced in, but I don't remember him dying N1, but I could be wrong, but I do remember him dying and flipping Rb'r too, lol.

[Turkish Van]

Bob, mafia ssk and twisted- these would be nice lynches.

One is pretty going. The other people are talking about, but explain twisted? I'm reading him as Slighty town.

Also if you believe these three wagons are good wagons why haven't you placed your vote?

[Turkish Van]

Nevermind, you did vote, I missed it.

[Turkish Van]

oh hey penny and/or mala

so, are you going to be the ones to break this groupthink circle jerk and vote khan with me?

It's Mala I'm just constricted to a phone so can't image GiF.

Maybe, I'm not really seeing Bob as mainly scummy.

Also I dislike that Monkey is trying to start a wagon based on saying grey was killed for a threat when he lead the wagon on Mnemonic at a time where it wasn't needed and the momentum shifted which makes it very unlikely that the push would have been a scum push.
I'm also town leaning a bit over on Bob just because he was mnem's CW.

[Turkish Van]

I know. Pa and I were in the midst of doing a partial reads list and I ended up falling asleep on her. I want to talk to Peng more before I make an executive decision.

[Turkish Van]

oh hey penny and/or mala

so, are you going to be the ones to break this groupthink circle jerk and vote khan with me?

Khan's D1 didn't end up doing much, but I don't mind his Katarina vote, and I'd like to see what he does having presumably vented his spleen at Twisted Advice and without the argument potential with GreyICE.

On the other hand, looking at the VC from the end of the day, Katarina-scum means there were three scum on Bob. Which, um. Maybe if she's the SK who wouldn't have been in tune with Mafia. It does make me like the current Bob wagon less.

Not whether or not they are scum

this "clarification" was both hilarious and townish

mneu are you often lynched as town

...and here comes scumbuddy bob, giving zombie man the "OMG, i'm mislynched

all the time

, poor me" out.

What happened to this?

Also, 380. He put Guzame/mnemonic at the end of his better off dead list. He also has Bob and MafiaSSK there. Not sure he'd set up more than one buddy like that. Counterpoint is that it was early with time to back off.

Regardless, PV's ISO doesn't look like Bob is a partner, which makes the wagon bad. Probably panicky scum going for an easy mislynch with regroup time/set up further mislynches.

Hopkirk or Monkeyman576 would be all right. Hopkirk looks worse today to me. Mala agrees, so.

VOTE: Hopkirk

--PA

[Turkish Van]

it was bluster. i ripped a page from kuribo's playbook: everyone not killing what i'm killing is scum. (see: metal sonic) again, i don't think bob is likely groupscum.

Right, I agree. So what do you think of Katarina and Hopkirk?

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Apologies for my lack of presence yesterday. The affairs of the kingdom and various other real life issues took precedence. I should be here with more consistency now.

Metal Sonic, could you explain post 730 and 731 for me? It looks suspiciously like you slipped insider information and tried to cover it with nonsensical jabbering as appears to be your trademark.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

~The Royal Vizier

This rubs me the wrong way. Not sure if it's fishing or just in general. If you think someone slipped insider information, why did you automatically jump that it has to be

scum

dropping insider information. Isn't town just as likely to do it also?

I feel like he did this last knight game to with the BP

yeah but relying on slips is terrible

anyway khan was the only one to seriously respond to my rambling about pv

that would be the worst thing to do if he was scum

but maybe I'm giving him too much credit

Not really terrible no, it's a decent scumhunting tech.

@Kat:

Can you explain why you want those three people dead? Can you explain why Day 1 you decided to skate, but are currently putting a wedge in not skating by anymore..?

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Ok I just spent 10 minutes and took a look at the board

There are 2 scum role blockers

No wonder it was difficult possibilities. Look like we must wait for another scum to flip.

Two scum role blockers?

[Turkish Van]

Ok I just spent 10 minutes and took a look at the board

There are 2 scum role blockers

No wonder it was difficult possibilities. Look like we must wait for another scum to flip.

Two scum role blockers?

Ugh, nevermind, I got it right after I made this post, derp.

[Turkish Van]

I scum read mafia ssk, bob (duh) and (very lightly) monkey man

Meanwhile khan, me, hop, and katarina are all town, so unvote off of them please.

Reasons for Khan and Hopkirk please?

Katarina, your town reads are yourself, jbomber (who's obviously not getting lynched today) and Bob. And your reasoning on Bob is...that we lynched Mafia yesterday so any other wagons must be town. Never mind the possibilities of Bob-SK or Bob-Mafia PR. Or hell, Mafia goon Bob who took a backseat to the scummier mnemonic device.

And I object to you not doing anything to actually further your supposed scum reads. The Khan vote is unconvincing. After you've done nothing the whole game, expecting other people to dance attendance on your scum reads is absurd.

--PA

Vote Count 2.05

Kublai Khan (5) - Antihero, Metal Sonic, Katarina LeBlanc, Bicephalous Bob, beastcharizard
Bicephalous Bob (2) - jbomber732, MafiaSSK
Hopkirk (2) - MonkeyMan576, Turkish Van
Katarina LeBlanc (1) - Kublai Khan
Metal Sonic (1) - Twisted Advice
MafiaSSK (1) - Hopkirk

Not Voting (3) - notscience, Lords of the Unreal, burn_209

15 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline is May 4th, 3:20 PM EST.

Countdown:
(expired on 2014-05-04 15:20:00)

[Turkish Van]

Katarina LeBlanc and MonkeyMan576 are most likely to flip scum according to my re-read.

right...

a sentence or two about this...?

Post 596

And Katarina?

notscience, your obvtown status has gone to hell in a handbasket. I want your actual take on Bob now, since last time he was null for you but you were willing to sheep the people on his wagon.

Looking over PV's ISO, I like our Hopkirk vote more, given that PV went after him for weak stuff early on and then entirely dropped him.

MS, why first assume that scummy vibes stem from a playstyle conflict rather than from a player having received a scum role PM?

--PA

[Turkish Van]

ER, why are you so bloodthirsty for me. You seem to think you can leash me up and have me kneel for you as if you're controlling who is and isnt in the townblock.

That just makes me more prone to messing with you :3

:rolls eyes: Assuming you're talking to us, a) I'm asking KK why he's scum reading you, b) I have no interest in a town block, never mind determining who's in it, and c) oddly enough I don't think you're scum for some stuff that's gone down this day phase. I do think you're damn unhelpful town, and I'd like to see that change, as my impression of you from our brief time together in Micro 273 was that you were competent. And I read some of a large theme you were in too (Touhou) and had a favorable impression.

Although points for the creepy image...

--PA

[Turkish Van]

If you think Bob is the SK, why not vote him? Lynching the SK gives us minimum four day phases to catch the last two scum before we'd run into LyLo in the worst-case scenario, precluding PRs that stop NKs. I don't agree on Bob-SK based on some things today, but with two Mafia flipped, eliminating a NK puts us in a great situation.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Prod dodge basically.

burn looks just OK to me aside from 'not wanting to risk' lynching someone he thinks could be the SK. I'm listening if anyone has points on him beyond bleeding towniness from his orifices one way or the other. But I still like our Hopkirk vote.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

It was my scum day but thanks bomber.

Turkish, was there a reason you commented on burn that I am missing? It seems completely random and out of place to me.

Sorry, I'm not super-coherent in the morning. Was reading everything that had been said since the last time I read the game, and Antihero's ambivalent read on burn was the only thing I found particularly interesting/discussion-worthy. Since the Twisted Advice-Antihero squabbling made my eyes glaze over.

Being reminded of burn brought up that I think I shuttled him over to the town group in my mind, but for the life of me I'm not sure why. Just trying not to let things go under the radar in my brain.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

What's with you and voting really townie players, Kublai Khan?

~The Royal Vizier

I differ with you here; any positives I had on MonkeyMan576 are getting stale quickly.

Um, Metal Sonic, read 913 again. I don't think it means what you think it means.

notscience, we're lynching Hopkirk for being unrefuted scum, although if Kublai Khan keeps saying silly things his grace period might run out. Or if you don't start trying to earn our town read, I'd toss you on the gallows too. Or SSK for being a useless wagoner. Count me among those who would like Lords to give an updated read on SSK, FTR.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Getting bored waiting for ns to be useful.

VOTE: notscience

--PA (and Mala endorses this too...)

[Turkish Van]

Getting bored waiting for ns to be useful.

VOTE: notscience

--PA (and Mala endorses this too...)

What do you think of ssk?

What does this have to do with anything? I'd rather hear what you think of ns, especially after you voted SSK as 'most likely to go through'

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Can we shit-can all SK-hunting talk? Because it's the most anti-town thing to do.

Yes, the SK has a night-kill and can kill townies. Sure, whatever. But right now the night fighting is the mafia trying to kill the SK and vice-versa. As long as both need to kill each other, they are (or should) be leaving the towniest players alone and going after the lurkers and the anti-town. If we try to and succeed in lynching the SK, then the mafia can switch to hunting and eliminating town PRs.

So anyone trying to lynch a serial killer right now is hurting town. So, let's stop being dumb.

Please tell me you aren't serious about this?

I really don't see this at all. Does a GreyICE kill by mafia look like SK-hunting? Yes, there's some truth to this statement because the SK did hit mafia, but I don't see as night Mafia vs. SK, I just don't.

This post is all full of wrong and makes me want to warrant a vote on you due to it.

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Can we shit-can all SK-hunting talk? Because it's the most anti-town thing to do.

Yes, the SK has a night-kill and can kill townies. Sure, whatever. But right now the night fighting is the mafia trying to kill the SK and vice-versa. As long as both need to kill each other, they are (or should) be leaving the towniest players alone and going after the lurkers and the anti-town. If we try to and succeed in lynching the SK, then the mafia can switch to hunting and eliminating town PRs.

So anyone trying to lynch a serial killer right now is hurting town. So, let's stop being dumb.

Please tell me you aren't serious about this?

I really don't see this at all. Does a GreyICE kill by mafia look like SK-hunting? Yes, there's some truth to this statement because the SK did hit mafia, but I don't see as night Mafia vs. SK, I just don't.

This post is all full of wrong and makes me want to warrant a vote on you due to it.

~Mala

What.

I sort of agree with his post because lynching the SK is a lot easier said than done unless there are actual results, tells or slips. An SK has almost the same information as a villager and has enough motive to take shots in the dark because that's their objective. Unlike Mafia where they have the underlying fact that they have to preserve their members.

You can think anyone is an SK but that's just solely relying on gut,

especially

at this far in the game. That's part of the reason I don't want out who my gut feeling for SK is, because I don't actually have basis on it.

Listen to me closely. We actually are ahead of plan this game than we were last game. We have two mafia out of four gone by not even Night 2. We caught the SK last game only because Beast claimed trying to night kill and failing. Town actually got fucken lucky last game due to that. Then we caught the last scum due to a guilty from the SK if I'm remembering correctly.

Please do though tell me that you guinely believe that our N1 kills were fraction hunting each other. Do you actually believe that...?

Having both of them alive and not eliminating the deaths at Noght by 1 helps both of them not given them a disadvantage.

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

@Turkish:

Your wording in the above posts comes from the mind set of not town. You said our kills which implies on of the kills was yours. I am really not liking how you look right now.

No, you are being very nitpicky over the wording to be totally blunt. If you notice my previous paragraph I was talking about Knight I so I was explaining the difference of how games events were going on including the night kills and I was talking about both kills together in a plural sense. I only had a few minutes before work and really pressed for time so instead of writing out 'mafia kill' and 'SK kill' at Night 1 were fractions hunting each other so I just threw it as 'our'.

I don't see how my post doesn't come from the mindset of anything else, but town.

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Look, both ns and Hopkirk are doing nothing. I would rather lynch the one who is actively doing nothing rather than the one who is not even posting. We get a lot more information off of the Hopkirk lynch so put your vote back on that wagon.

I agree, but a) we have some time, and b) by wagon, we apparently have a total of two votes. No one else seems willing to see Hopkirk's scumminess. If you think you can do more to convince people, I'd be happy with his lynch today.

I'd like to hear everyones opinion on burn. I feel like hes pretty town, but he posts not very often and some of his posts seem a bit artificial.

So what does feel town about him to you?

Getting bored waiting for ns to be useful.

VOTE: notscience

--PA (and Mala endorses this too...)

What do you think of ssk?

What does this have to do with anything? I'd rather hear what you think of ns, especially after you voted SSK as 'most likely to go through'

--PA

Because what you said about notscience is the same criticisms you could make of ssk so i'd like to see if one is being consistent.

SSK never does much in my experience. notscience made a big deal a bit wanting us specifically to town read him and has been coasting since. I know he's capable of being more useful as town, and his choice not to be so far is an abberation worth pursuing.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

UNVOTE: notscience

Consider this us wanting a claim, AJ.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

khan, would you mind doing me a solid and summarizing the case on monkey for me?

Not addressed to me, but at this point I'm finding it weird that AJ isn't doing anything. Not a 'hey, will catch up soon' or 'hey, here's my claim' or even 'hey, don't lynch me until I can catch up and claim.'

--PA

[Turkish Van]

khan, would you mind doing me a solid and summarizing the case on monkey for me?

Not addressed to me, but at this point I'm finding it weird that AJ isn't doing anything. Not a 'hey, will catch up soon' or 'hey, here's my claim' or even 'hey, don't lynch me until I can catch up and claim.'

--PA

he hasn't posted site-wide since thursday, penny

also, khan's scum

...didn't realize the time that had elapsed between replacement and now. Everyone wanting him to claim made me think it had been more than :checks: 30 hours.

Not super-eager for claim then, more interested in what he has to say first about game impressions.

KK-wise, he's not convincing me of his towniness certainly. Depending on how AJ looks I might be persuaded to turn the heat up on KK.

Also have to check in with Mala; I've been a delinquent hydra partner...

--PA

[Turkish Van]

So it's been a while since I've played with AJ, but I think he's the one who claimed cop as Mafia traitor in NY 161 and got two townies lynched for the eventual win. That kind of attitude implies to me that if he thought he was near a lynch he wouldn't be claiming VT. Scum's down a PR, and town is at full strength. Mafia should be able to track the possible knight jumps that could connect their two PRs. (like if they assume their roleblocker is from the upper right corner, the next jump can only go to cop or town BP, and the jump after that has to connect with their second PR; same process with the other roleblocker square) making it worth trying to fish out a claim or brazen it out with a fake PR claim as scum.

Not interested in an AJ lynch any more.

notscience, what's your read on Katarina that you're holding your vote over her head?

VOTE: Hopkirk

Nothing in his posts says town, nothing's changed. Wagon is very likely on scum, and we get good info from it even if I'm wrong.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Ah, someone else with a three word name, my bad. (My brain's weird sometimes...)

Less confident on you not being scum then, but I still like a Hopkirk lynch better.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Hey Kazekirimaru, let's hear either your read on MafiaSSK elaborated upon or your other head's current read. Both would be peachy.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

I've not read up yet.

See you later.

Where are you up too?

Also I want to say I'm not sure if lynching LoTu is the right approach. Something about taking the whole Kirk 'mafia rb'er' claim seriously struck OTT to me. I might agree with a SSK lynch, but I feel like we are PL'ing more of a lurker than anything else. This is my opinion of both wagons, tbh.

I haven't liked cho's posts so far.

Hasn't read up yet is still willing to jump on a wagon that's up in numbers. Feels opportunist and scummy.

As of late jbomber has been giving me bad feels and Anti-hero has become a non presence.

Khan and MS are both town, i think. Rest are kinda up in the air. Besides the townread I had on Muffin for his previously slots posts~

<Mala

[Turkish Van]

I see a metric fuckton of votes on LotU and SSK, but no reasoning from them really, which is quite odd.

I would like a case. Give me a pretty case, and I'll see about getting Mala to let us vote that way.

Yes, I could make cases, but I'm more interested in what the two votees come up with beyond 'iz scum, die naow.'

--PA

[Turkish Van]

I see a metric fuckton of votes on LotU and SSK, but no reasoning from them really, which is quite odd.

I would like a case. Give me a pretty case, and I'll see about getting Mala to let us vote that way.

Yes, I could make cases, but I'm more interested in what the two votees come up with beyond 'iz scum, die naow.'

--PA

Not feeling like any cases beyond 'lurking' and 'voting me' have materialized from LotU or SSK. Would like that rectified.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

who else do you think is scum, ms?

Cho should answer this question too.

Turkish Van should iso me for answers as to why Lords of the Unreal is scum instead of being lazy.

I'm aware of the cases. I'm more interested in why the two suspects in question, despite knowing one another so well apparently and cross-voting, don't have coherent cases to present that I can find.

Mod, PA head is V/LA for two days. Thanks.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

I'm finding Cho scummier with every post.

Samiez.

THis game is seriously dragging with very little vote movement.

We need a replacement for Aj the Epic.

Alternatively, we could just lynch Aj the Epic.

Seriously, who here objects to lynching Aj the Epic?

I'm okay with an AJ lynch, however, PA thinks AJ is town so we might not see eye to eye on that matter.

Also Jbomb stop being a parrot.

Also if SSK does flip scum those who have said "we're gonna hammer" and haven't I'm going to take it as scum stalling while trying to save their partner, kkthx.

[Turkish Van]

Mod, I will be V/LA for a week (through 6/4) due to personal issues. I apologize to you and the players; Malakittens has my blessing to kick me out of the hydra and go solo should she choose, given the length of the V/LA.

[Turkish Van]

Alright, made a decision. I'm going to be stickin' to the hydra. I'll wait til Peng comes back because I'd still love to have someone to bounce ideas/reads off to get them to be more accurate.

Also, I have had a townread on LoTu since two days ago. The OTT reaction from Kaze's post 1239 doesn't really feel like something that would come from a scum-buddy especially after their partner was flipped and was the Rb'r.

PA had a town-read on the AJ slot, but me not so much. At this point I'm giving time for Lemi to catch up, but as of right now I'm null on the slot waiting for some content to appear.

Jbomber I still believe is town and I'm leaning town on Muffin.

KK and Kat are gutish town reads.

Also MS did a brilliant job on helping to determine who is likely not a SK. KK and TA are not the SK, but could still be mafia.

I still don't like Cho. My townread I had on ns went stale and before ns got replaced I was slighty leaning scum. Cho hasn't done anything to move herself from the scummy scale of my list.

Only thing that bothers me about Anti is the fact I started pushing Cho-Scum and now this day phrase he votes our hydra due to a wiki page. Something feels off.

if Cho or Anti flips scum; I'm likely thinking the other one has a good shot at being mafia.

VOTE: Cho

[Turkish Van]

Uh uh. Nope.

Alright, made a decision. I'm going to be stickin' to the hydra. I'll wait til Peng comes back because I'd still love to have someone to bounce ideas/reads off to get them to be more accurate.

Why did any of this need saying, and why was it a decision at all?

PA had a town-read on the AJ slot, but me not so much. At this point I'm giving time for Lemi to catch up, but as of right now I'm null on the slot waiting for some content to appear.

Even though she doesn't seem terribly interested in catching up or doing anything at all...?

Also MS did a brilliant job on helping to determine who is likely not a SK. KK and TA are not the SK, but could still be mafia.

Cheerleading the dead town PR rubs me the wrong way. Also, you ultimately suggest Anti could be mafia in this post for little reason, even though this is the only place you mention us. Why aren't we under consideration?

I still don't like Cho. My townread I had on ns went stale and before ns got replaced I was slighty leaning scum. Cho hasn't done anything to move herself from the scummy scale of my list.

You had a townread on ns... and I understand reads going stale like back to null, but I don't think reads normally decay all the way to scum to the point where you'd actually say you're leaning scum. And slightly leaning scum is the best you've got? You're voting someone for posting but not particularly well but giving Lemni a pass for the same thing?

Only thing that bothers me about Anti is the fact I started pushing Cho-Scum and now this day phrase he votes our hydra due to a wiki page. Something feels off.

A) Cho is now "Cho-Scum" despite the fact that she was a lean at worst two lines ago.
B) This is just not a good reason to ultimately throw Anti in your suspect pool.

VOTE: Cho

Last but not least, this vote is just incorrect!

Iago

Gaah, hate having to refresh pages to get my scroll bar.

Because she's going to be gone for a week and possibly more. No, I'm not at liability to discuss, but we wanted to make a decision sooner than later. As I said; I'm sticking with the hydra even with an absent hydra. I personally like hydra'ing rather than solo especially when I have time restraints and something else I rather not be made public.

I'm giving Lemi time. The site was down for quite a while. If she doesn't produce content soon then she has my vote. PA was pretty confidentish in AJ-town and the last few lessons that I have taken away from my past hydra games is that I don't trust my partner's reads enough.

Where did I suggest Anti could be mafia? I didn't. You're kinda nullish for me. you were a townread for me prior, but it went stale and I got disconnected from the game. Your current posts haven't done much for me.

I have a lot of meta experience with ns. The ending before he replaced out was more towards the ns-scum scale meta than town-ns meta. Earlier posts are indication of town-ns, but it gradually turned as he went inactive. I know his replace out wasn't likely alignment-indicative as he mass-replaced out of the site.

Lemi v ns is totally different. I'm trying to trust my partners reads and both Peng and I were leaning towards ns-scum before the downcrash.

Potential associative tells are a reasonable reason to put someone in a suspect pool.

@Pre-edit:

Sorry anti, I'm not the in the mood to have a debate about who has the possible biggest weiner fight. My mood is just not in it and your attitude needs to go. Also, I don't 1v1, get on my level, tia.

I spammed the living shit out of Day 1, but not at all related to why my posts have gradually decreased.

I been busy with life. I'm working almost 50 hours a week and my boss won't give me a set schedule and has me half nights and half days which ends up putting my body is chaos. I wake up go to work and just immediately want to sleep the moment I get home and when I have nights I wake up 1 hour before my shift and then have to immediately sleep because I have a shift 6 hours later. So, no time for mafia and I told Peng prior to signing up this might happen due to college kids coming back.

Still no relief for me coming summer time as he's hiring and I'm training and only have one day off a week.

I'm waiting for vacation to happen and then my boss and I are having a serious talk because I just can't keep doing this.

Hmmm, Idk how I feel about lemi's post..

Anyways a bit of a prod dodge. Ill try and see if I'm in the mood to post tonight.

Above 2 posts are repulsively bad. Just... ew.

Iago

Thanks, I never knew a prod dodge could reek so bad.

Quoting for clarity reasons~

[Turkish Van]

PA was pretty confidentish in AJ-town

y?

The ending before he replaced out was more towards the ns-scum scale meta than town-ns meta

elaborate

She was confident in Aj-Town due to his claim and how his claim came about. I have to dig through skype chat logs and paraphrase it, but if you really want me to I can, but it's a pita. We are half using QT and half using skype for reads etc.

Ns didn't react to votes/reach out as I would think town-NS would have. Makes more sense from a scum-ns.

just an overall analysis will do...

well... any analysis will do....

^ This.

Cho, so far your play has been nothing but "Oh, people have a town-read on this slot? Then I'm going to coast on that." Well, your coasting has caused that townread to stop and you need to do more than just cheerlead wagons.

people had townreads on notty?

that's news to me...

I had one on him in Day 1, but then it went stale.

I'm here because I replaced in. I thought my vanilla slot was already hammered / dead, so I was confused why to put any effort in at all. By the time it would take me to fully read through this game, I assumed I'd have been dead.

Speaking of which, why am I not dead yet?

only reason i think TV might be scum is i have too many stronger town reads elsewhere

also

Vote: Lemniscate

Honestly, I hate the point underlining this paragraph but it's true. TV and Myself are seemingly the town's lynch subject today, and since I don't know TV's role, I'd rather you lynch me. At least you don't lose a power role. Besides, I haven't given this game any amount of attention that it deserves, and since I'm fairly certain there's nothing I can say to help because it appears the entire town is dead-set to lynch me, I'll let the roles take it's course. However I will highly advise, that you look elsewhere away from me before the deadline ends, to figure out who will be scum *just in case* I flip town. That way you're not dumbfounded and dead on your feet during Day 5 like you all appear to be right now.

Actually now that I'm sitting down this is a reeeeeeeeaaally bad post. I didn't even see the first part of her post because I was skimming it, but I was referring to the bottom part of the post that was giving me mixed feelings.

Lemi let me ask you this. Would the mod have you replaced in if your slot was already hammered and/or dead?

Let me ask you this, Do you want to be dead?

Why are you saying it's between you and I. The reason why this post gave up mixed feelings is her giving herself up for the lynch for the sake of not losing a PR.
Then there's the AtE that gave me a bad vibe as she's already set in her mind that she's dead.

[Turkish Van]

OK, catching up here after being absurdly absent and being a horrible hydra partner. BUT.

For anyone being purely idiotic enough to think that we're scum of any flavor:

If we were Mafia, there is zero chance I'd have let us bus Day One. No, I don't care if Guzame was running around in a sandwich board claiming to be the scummiest scum who ever scummed. I don't bus, and I don't let my hydra partners bus. And quite frankly, impolite as it might be to say, in this hydra when I'm not off fucking up my personal life, I'm the one approving the votes and such.

If we were the SK, there is zero chance I'd have had us kill PeregrineV Night One. I'd have kept him around forever and ever given past evidence that I can play him as per NY 164. SK-me would consider his presence in the game to be a gift from on high. Not someone to be killed out the gate, sheesh.

Titus, you had a question for me I think. I'll go rummage that up, then figure out what the hell's been going on since I last actually analyzed anything and didn't just string Mala along with promises of getting my head back in the game.

--PA

P-edit: Antihero, don't be an idiot. You should know my game by now enough to know that all of the above is 100% true and that I'm town here even if I am being a complete waste of space the last couple game days. And sadly we don't have time to lynch wastes of space today. We need to find scum. Ideally the SK, since that gives us a fighting chance to take out the Mafia with back-to-back lynches; second choice Mafia to hope that scum then cross-kill and give us a chance to have a XyLo choice.

[Turkish Van]

Looking at the flips, that we got 50% of the Mafia before Day Two and none of them since then indicates that something seriously wacky is going on with the scum hunting here. I don't have a good sense of the game rhythm here, but it seems very likely that we have groupscum directing a lot of the scum hunting somehow. I'll be looking for that in my reread.

First posts of Day 3. I think their target died or something.

Heh, am I actually paying more attention than you? TA was blocked by Metal Sonic N2.

So it's been a while since I've played with AJ, but I think he's the one who claimed cop as Mafia traitor in NY 161 and got two townies lynched for the eventual win. That kind of attitude implies to me that if he thought he was near a lynch he wouldn't be claiming VT. Scum's down a PR, and town is at full strength. Mafia should be able to track the possible knight jumps that could connect their two PRs. (like if they assume their roleblocker is from the upper right corner, the next jump can only go to cop or town BP, and the jump after that has to connect with their second PR; same process with the other roleblocker square) making it worth trying to fish out a claim or brazen it out with a fake PR claim as scum.

Not interested in an AJ lynch any more.

notscience, what's your read on Katarina that you're holding your vote over her head?

VOTE: Hopkirk

Nothing in his posts says town, nothing's changed. Wagon is very likely on scum, and we get good info from it even if I'm wrong.

--PA

Can you explain the rationale behind this post? Is it possible to deduce what scum likely have left here?

I think we have a Mafia BP left. The only way to pull in a Town Cop and a Town Roleblocker with a Mafia Roleblocker is to start at the upper right corner with the Mafia Roleblocker and make the first knight hop to the Town Cop, the second knight hop to the Mafia BP on the third row, right side, and then the last hop to the Town Roleblocker on the bottom.

[Turkish Van]

You're not SK, you're mafia.

:rolls eyes: I have exactly two games here in 75+ where I've bussed a partner. One was Open 459, one of my first games on site, and Day One bussing led to a town romp. The other was Mini 1527 where I was utterly screwed anyways and took a Hail Mary on living another day (and definitely shouldn't have). Get a better working theory, please and thank you.

--PA

P-edit: My take is that the Grey kill N1 was Mafia trying to set up KK and they're still hoping it'll pay off down the line. There was something there actually that made me think he was a mason, but that's obviously outdated now anyways.

I'd like to go back to Grey's reads as well, come to think of it. Some recently finished games have demonstrated the utility of not overlooking the obvious motives for NKing/eliminating people that include 'them having a crapload of reads as accurate.'

[Turkish Van]

zMuffinMan is burn_209. Burn was kind of borderline scummy IIRC. I'll have to see what zMuffinMan has been doing in the meantime.

Also, what the hell on the set-up? Don't we know by the knight moves that would land on both town cop and roleblocker that we have a Mafia BP as the only option, not a godfather or whatever?

(sorry, I've been leaving all my hydra games to my partners while I sort out my IRL shit and have gotten out of the habit of signing)

--PA

[Turkish Van]

OK, looking at the NKs (because I'm lazy on a Saturday afternoon and would actually rather be napping, not reading 74 pages of posts) we have:

PeregrineV,

Mafia Roleblocker

, was killed Night 1.--this was the SK
GreyICE,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 1.--this was Mafia
beastcharizard,

Town Mason

, was killed Night 2.
Bicephalous Bob,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 2.
Metal Sonic,

Town Roleblocker

, was killed Night 3.--either both Mafia and SK killed him or he blocked one of the parties; has anyone checked who he was likely to have blocked? Given that he was broadcasting being a PR?
Lords of the Unreal,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 4.
Twisted Advice,

Town Cop

, was killed Night 4.

Posting to take a further look...

--PA

[Turkish Van]

So Mafia kills a big name player N1. They then go on to kill either a solid but not terrifying player N2 or Bob (who...wasn't exactly ripping things up). N3 is either obvious or unknown. N4 they kill either a hydra of good players or anonymous ones. The possibility of KK being set up aside, it is odd that he hasn't been taken out, especially since there was a point where I thought he might be a mason based on some of his posts.

If scum are trying to crosskill then it helps less, but if they're playing with an agenda on who to take out, how the Grey kill fits in with any of their other potential choices is an interesting question. Still processing to figure out where that all leads.

--PA

P-edit: let me check who Titus replaced; I don't remember. Although did we get an explanation for why Titus was pretending to be a cop? Because it smells like a Mafia BP being cheeky to me.

[Turkish Van]

Oh, hey, Titus replaced Katarina, whom I only let off the hook because I thought she was crumbing mason. Which obviously wasn't the case.

Haven't looked at Muffin yet, but this really makes me want to lynch Titus. Has she actually done anything here? I seem to recall her post-replace-in posts were pretty fluid in a non-useful way.

--PA

P-edit: OK, so if scum are trying to crosskill and targeted LotU and TA, what does that tell us? Without getting super-convoluted please. Because figuring out if said scum were pushing those lynches in-thread seems like a game of WIFOM. Was anyone voting them at the end of yesterday?

[Turkish Van]

@TV, I never gave one. I was saying my claim was fake all along. ika is someone who I play with and he frequently gambits. I was saying I was claiming cop tomorrow to draw a nightkill and create the very scenario I was explaining, considering no one was listening to me.

Looking at the table, a Mafia RB and a Mafia BP mean that the in-between move is either on Town Cop or Town Gunsmith with a flipped Town Roleblocker. The ambiguity of your claim makes me think you were actually trying to smoke out the last town PR. Do explain why I'm wrong, any time.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Screw it, I'm out for the afternoon at least. I'll read Burn-Muffin when I get back.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

Splitting headache and short on time, but I'll get in here for real tonight. From the last place I was reading:

@TV, I never gave one. I was saying my claim was fake all along. ika is someone who I play with and he frequently gambits. I was saying I was claiming cop tomorrow to draw a nightkill and create the very scenario I was explaining, considering no one was listening to me.

Looking at the table, a Mafia RB and a Mafia BP mean that the in-between move is either on Town Cop or Town Gunsmith with a flipped Town Roleblocker. The ambiguity of your claim makes me think you were actually trying to smoke out the last town PR. Do explain why I'm wrong, any time.

--PA

I can't even see how that would draw out the last town PR. My claim was not ambiguous at all. I specifically said I was claiming town cop tomorrow, and I crumbed my own claim was bullshit. The only players capable of understanding me were you, Antihero (conftown) and possible Marquis. Everyone else wouldn't understand it at all. It literally was a no risk plan, but of course if it nets me scum it's a good idea.

You also look solid for being scum based on VCA. The wagon surrounding you at the start of the day is off.

My only concern is this being too easy.

OK, my problem is that either you're scum who's decided it's worth mislynching us even though it means you get lynched tomorrow or you're town who's going to torpedo the game. We. Are. Not. Scum. Of any flavor. That your slot and ours are the only unflipped ones from a bad wagon is unfortunate if you're town, which I think you are. Our town flip means that either scum will assume you're opposite flavor scum and shoot you or they'll ignore you and have you for an easy mislynch.

Do me a favor: take a step back and assume we're not scum. I'm assuming you're not because you setting up our lynch here is bad for you as scum. If you're town and we know Antihero's town and we're town, that puts the last three scum in four players. We can actually figure this out. I'll try to be more useful tonight, see if I can pick a top town read out from that group.

And your claim was ambiguous because you implied you could be a gunsmith. Or so I gathered in my speed reading.

You're not SK, you're mafia.

:rolls eyes: I have exactly two games here in 75+ where I've bussed a partner. One was Open 459, one of my first games on site, and Day One bussing led to a town romp. The other was Mini 1527 where I was utterly screwed anyways and took a Hail Mary on living another day (and definitely shouldn't have). Get a better working theory, please and thank you.

--PA

I actually said that in reference to your incorrect ideas about how the setup is determined- the four roles on the chart are determined in one fell swoop, or one move, from start to finish. It's not determined by hopping from one point to another, which totally negates the point of the setup because that would allow for any combination of a random four on that chart.

I think that because of your interpretation you probably aren't the Serial Killer, who would know about the powers in play already and consequently wouldn't come to the mistaken conclusion that you did, or even think of potentially faking that sort of conclusion about the game setup. Again, there's a slim possibility you faked not knowing how roles were determined, but at this point I'm just going to take whatever process of elimination puzzle pieces I can get.

A) that's annoying as hell--knights pass over squares, they don't move through them, but whatever. Not my set-up.

B) Mafia should know all four powers in play by now, which means I'm as unlikely to be Mafia as SK by your logic. If I were the type to fake it, all bets would be off, but you can't have it both ways.

More hopefully after dinner and post-beautiful, beautiful 800 mgs of Advil.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

@TV, if the wagon is all town, at least one scum faction will kill jbomber tonight, who is essentially dead weight. Given the fact I'm 90% sure that the wagon is NOT all town (given the reluctance to go along with the plan and the unlikely odds).

I'm open to lynching jbomber, but unless someone proves to me that you both are town, I think that's the wisest option. Otherwise, y'all are mislynch bait for tomorrow if we don't figure it out.

Can you tell me who killed TA?

I'm confused on which wagon you're referencing. The one where you and we are the only 'unknowns'? Because I'm afraid us being mislynched today makes you mislynched tomorrow and at absolute best leaves the game in the hands of scum cross-killing.

Question: were you trying to claim potential gunsmith? Or was I reading weird stuff into it?

No idea who killed TA. Actually, looking at the NKs, knowing PV was the SK kill and Grey was the Mafia kill, I suppose you could assume the SK was going for low-profile people and the Mafia was going for active players. Best breakdown from there has beast as the Mafia kill and Bob as the SK kill, then LotU as the SK kill and TA as the Mafia kill. But that assumes both groups are sticking with their victim profile, so to speak, and that there weren't specific reasons based on reads for those deaths. Or crumbs caught. That's my best guess though.

I'm between zMuffin and Marquis for the town player in {KK, jbomber, zMuffin, Marquis} here, so I'm OK lynching jbomber. As far as us helping to lynch mnemonicdevice, all I can say is that I really don't bus like that. I know, self-meta, w/e, but it's just a mental block I generally have.

And yeah, I know I've been fadey here, but all I can say is that RL is kicking my ass time-wise and in terms of how much I enjoy the prospect of fighting with people online when RL is constant conflict. Would prefer that it didn't impact things here, but it does. Add into that that Mala gets all nervous about deciding things when we get left for the end (actually this feels a lot like Anything Goes, damn it) and yeah, I'm not feeling super-helpful.

Consider our vote on jbomber though pending an official vote count.

I'll try to read burn/zMuffin and Marquis/whoever this weekend and get my thoughts in order. And bug Mala, heh.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

VOTE: jbomber

L-1. I feel OK about this lynch, and Mala seemed on board last time we synched, IIRC.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

i was summarizing what i thought was khan's recent line of posting in the last page, not my own thoughts

right. kk isn't hiding the fact he's scum. but that doesn't make jbomber any less scum

Except I'm not. There's been no case on me besides "Oh, he was wrong about Lemniscate". And if that's the entire case, then my will is sapped because town morale is in the toilet.

If I was scum, I would have hammered. I didn't, but nobody cares. So my morale is sapped.

This post gives me horrible horrible vibes. If you think that the case boils down to "wrong about Lemni" then you are wrong.

This is the thing, you think both Muffin and I are scum, but you are doing jack to push us. I think your willing to vote Jbomber is probably a last minute bus most likely.

I'm going to

UNVOTE: Jbomber

at this point. I'm going to talk to Penguin again.

I do have to say the last few posts by Jbomber read like "scared scum" even though I was reading him as town for remainder of the game. Part of it was because I thought he was a power role of some sort.

I do have to say, I believe the last three scum are most likely {Titus, jbomber, Khan}.

~Mala

[Turkish Van]

Titus posts regarding the VCA looks like she's setting up lynches, imo. I'm scared if Jbomber flips town that she's going go after Peng and I with a pitchfork. That's reckless, although, her play last day made sense from a town perspective. Trying to draw the NK is something I have attempted to do in the past even though time after time I have failed.

I can't read Muffin worth of shit. The last game I played with him I was a vig and he ended up being a scum commuter; I vig'd him because he was fluff posting rather then looking like he was really hunting. I'm not seeing that many fluff posts from Muffin.

[Turkish Van]

Titus posts regarding the VCA looks like she's setting up lynches, imo. I'm scared if Jbomber flips town that she's going go after Peng and I with a pitchfork. That's reckless, although, her play last day made sense from a town perspective. Trying to draw the NK is something I have attempted to do in the past even though time after time I have failed.

I can't read Muffin worth of shit. The last game I played with him I was a vig and he ended up being a scum commuter; I vig'd him because he was fluff posting rather then looking like he was really hunting. I'm not seeing that many fluff posts from Muffin.

Mala. Posting this here because I might have missed you on Skype. Titus is setting up her own death if she's scum, which is insane in this set-up. If zMuffin and Marquis are both town, then she's scum, but it makes no sense, and Titus tends to make sense.

If we think KK is more likely to be the SK than Mafia, I'll support his lynch. And are sure he's at least as clearcut scum as jbomber. Question is whether the GreyICE kill came from Mafia KK or Mafia trying to set up KK.

Unvote is acceptable pending thoughts there.

--PA, who would be partaking of nonalcoholic drinks on the jbomber wagon...

[Turkish Van]

Titus, it makes zero sense for you as scum to push us as scum. Our town flip makes you look really bad due to wagon stuff, and as scum you would know that. And you know who the heads are; I sign, Mala doesn't.

I'm exhausted and cramming for a very short notice job interview tomorrow, so I'm just going to say that I'm voting jbomber before I go to bed in a couple hours because I'm tired of this. Likely scum is likely scum. It needs to die.

--PA

[Turkish Van]

VOTE: jbomber

--PA, who is going to bed too late as it is