Mafia 61: No Theme - Game over!

[Battle Mage]

Theo- i see where you are coming from, and i totally understand your scepticism about Rands claim. However, he is not the play for today, even if he is lying. We can test what he gets tomorrow, and then make an informed judgement.
Much as logic tells me otherwise, i think Rand is town, albeit OMGUSSY town.
A better play for today would be Scotmany or Kison. Im not sure whether DGB is scum or just noob-town atm. There are certainly better candidates.

[Battle Mage]

thats exactly my point. ill allow you to make your own mind up. Suffice to say that my reading was that both were cutting their losses, and bussing a crap scumbuddy. Lalm cant have been that stupid. He was amazingly good at allowing BM1 to defend him, before dying.

@Skruffs-if you were in my shoes, you'd be saying the exact same thing about DGB.

Theopor, I think a good question to ask yourself is this : don't you think it's more likely that there are two Criminologists, a not-so-common role, in the same game, rather than the coincidental fact that Rand claimed a rare role that Battle Mage Sr. also happened to have?

I don't know maybe I'm going a little overboard with it and should slow down . . . it really concerns me as you can tell. I don't see really how helpful one of these criminologist guys is let alone two! The fact that Battle Mage the First had the same role was pretty unbelieveable especially as regards the claims. It's flustered me, even more so that everyone seems fine with it. Kison what do you make of Skruffs claiming when he did?

Maybe I should get back to re-reading. BM can you elaborate your case on Scotmany and Kison. Only asking as both from interactions with Lalm seem good to me - Lalm doesn't strike me as a particularly clever player hence I think his attack at Scotmany makes Scot much more likely to be a good guy.

[Battle Mage]

yeh, that was embarrassing. still, i did exactly the same with Jah and i was right, so i spose 1/2 isnt so bad. :p

[Battle Mage]

Skruffs for heavens sake . . . we've been over it. Two Criminologists is crap and you know it.

Unvote

Vote : theopor_COD

Sorry, but there's only so much of the same argument to push for someone's lynch that I can take.

ac1983fan, I'm hardly done with you.

if there was anything that could prove that Theo was town, its this^


@Theo-i do understand what you are getting at, but whether he is scum or not, he is NOT the play for today. On the other hand, neither are you.
MoS is always unhelpful. i dont think he's necessarily scum in this game.
Scotmany and Kison on the other hand...
If one of them isnt scum, ill eat my cat.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i think you are underestimating Lalm. he may have been easy to spot scum, but he was damn good at luring BM1 into trusting him. bearing in mind he was capable of that, id say its quite possible that he simultaneously tried to distance himself from scumbuddy Scotmany.
If you dont have a view on Kison yet, you might wanna read through again. Or are you saying you find him neutral?

What flavor cat do you have?
Actually I have no reason to think one way or another, about kison, but i doubt scotmany is scum if only because of lalms reaction to my questioning about his vote on him day one. He acted very defensive of it . I don't think he wanted to be called out. Maybe that's because he was quietly distancing from a buddy, or maybe it's because he voted scotmany because someone else did and had no real reason for it.

I noticed MOS's responses that day, too, but they are so ambivalent that there's no point reading into them. What about since then, though?

I don't think TCS is acting any differently from how he acts normally as town.

Jalyn is very intellignet and has caught two people in absurd statements - lalms, and now DGB.

Are mafia allowed to target dead people?

[Battle Mage]

i think you are underestimating Lalm. he may have been easy to spot scum, but he was damn good at luring BM1 into trusting him. bearing in mind he was capable of that, id say its quite possible that he simultaneously tried to distance himself from scumbuddy Scotmany.
If you dont have a view on Kison yet, you might wanna read through again. Or are you saying you find him neutral?

Wasn't BM1 pretty much the only person that he was able to lure into trusting him

true. thats 1 reason why i think his scumbuddies were all amongst those who were pushing him. An elaborate plot eh?

[Battle Mage]

What I will say is out of the Lalm wagon I like Skruffs, Kison and Scotmany more than anyone.

oh dear, dear, dear...
*considers suicide*

[Battle Mage]

check the way he played BM1 for a fool, then tell me he was a TOTAL noob-scum.

[Battle Mage]

check the way he played BM1 for a fool, then tell me he was a TOTAL noob-scum.

WOW. You're claiming scum again.

Thank you for pointing out that Lamesteak owned you.

need i remind you how much Jah owned you?

and dont even get me started on YOUR failings as town.

1 question though-are you a jester? you do seem to be begging for a lynch...

[Battle Mage]

BM - just promise that no matter what happens, you won't allow yourself to be so easily taken for a ride.

lol if you want me to promise that i will lead you to lynching all remaining scum on consequtive days, im afraid i cant. im not infallible. However considering my luck this game, i figure im bound to be right on some of my suspicions.

[Battle Mage]

No Skruffs, i havent changed my mind about Kison. i simply consider Scotmany to be a better play for today, in light of further scumminess.

of the wagons so far, the only one worthy of any merit is the wagon on TCS (and obv my vote on Scot). I have a gut feeling that Theo is confused town. I havent seen any sort of half-decent case for killing Acfan. TCS wouldnt be my top candidate today, but id rather see him lynched than someone obviously town.
BM

I'm torn between Theo nad DGB at this point. That last post made them tied, in my mind. Gonna run down the vote cout nad comment on each 'cnadidate'

ac1983fan (2) -- Jalyn, Mastermind of Sin -

- Jalyn is apparently voting 1983 for reacting oddly to Rand's original claim AND for thinkign that Rand is likely to be a criminologist, now. I don't buy it, personally. MoS says that 1983 is following the elader - so he followed aloong behind jalyn and voted 1983. HE later said that 1983's tells are much stronger than BM. USing BM as a comparison for tells is a horribly scummy thing to do.

scotmany12 (1) -- Battle Mage

- Battle MAge rarely needs a reason to vote someone, the reasons only come later after a lot of pressure and yelling and gnashing of teeth. As far as I am aware, Battle MAge has dropped his theory that Kison was bussing Lalms, and notw believes that Lalms voted Scotmany long long before he was in trouble.... why? I'm not sure why he would do that, and actually push it. When I asked him why, in day one, lalms fossed me and acted very defensive. "Why are you targetting me" was the general tone. HE explained it because of :

I got scum on scotmany from his posts 1, 4, 9, 10, 12, 13, and 15.

I do trust Sailor Jerry, partly because he suspects scotmany also, but I don't know what to think of his specific reasoning.

Those posts involve Scotmany voting blahgo, defending it as "Blahgo claiemd scum and is trying to back out of it", discrediting the c ase on RR, repeating that, and then explaining his lurkishness. HE ends up explaining that other people other than himself stood up for RR, including MoS.
Personally, I would take this to mean that Lalms was protecting his potential scum buddy Blahgo - who is now

Jalyn.

Battle Mage (1) -- DrippingGoofball

- DGB is acting REALLY goofy in this game, and seems reluctant to do the really GOOD scum hunting that I saw her do in Open 2 - where she was town. Come on, DGB, where's your chi?

theopor_COD (4) -- Skruffs, Rand Althor, ac1983fan, Kison

- Theopor is being voted for by two claimed power roles, both of which he has been almost entirely suspicious of day one. His voting style is kind of edgy, iffy, sketchy, he almost seems desperate to get a townie role lynched. He's moved on to:

The Central Scrutiniser (1) -- theopor_COD -

He compared TCS and MoS and decided to go after TCS. PErsonally I think he's avoiding MoS - who might be a potential buddy of TCS. TCS does tend to act like scum when he's town, and he's not done a lot, visibly, to help the game. But why TCS over MoS ? This is curious.

[Battle Mage]

thats a bit of a reach Skruffs.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage (1) -- DrippingGoofball

- DGB is acting REALLY goofy in this game, and seems reluctant to do the really GOOD scum hunting that I saw her do in Open 2 - where she was town. Come on, DGB, where's your chi?

I don't remember playing in "Open 2" - but I am willing to admit that BattleMage is seriously impeding the flow of energy. As long as he's around, I can't seem to find anyone remotely scummy in comparison. I just can't seem to see anyone, but him. I think I just realized yet another reason why we should lynch him.

i know, i know. im totally irresistable.

[Battle Mage]

go fish elsewhere Skruffy.

[Battle Mage]

err how?

[Battle Mage]

Skruffs dont be silly. me laughing at what is obviously (intended as) a joke, is hardly a confession of being scum. why are you trying to misinterpret me?

[Battle Mage]

im a tad sick of having my name bantered around as some kind of insult.
I still think Theo is town, but he seems a bit lost as to whats going on. Id rather lynch someone scummy than just kill someone for bad play.

[Battle Mage]

not in itself, but you are jumping around alot, and avoiding those who i think are the best candidates.

[Battle Mage]

Skruffs-i dont believe i said anything of the sort. if you can show me where i said Theo was suspicious, ill answer the rest of your post.

[Battle Mage]

you said he wasn't scummy, BUT that he was jumping around and avoiding the people you think are suspicious. You've said repeatedly that you think he is confused townie though. PErsonally, I think he was makign a lot of noise because he was fishing. Not for information on scum, but for information on town. Now that he's 'off' that, your last post seems to be trying to encourage him to 'take your side' - and maybe you are right, maybe you are not. I don't know. It's getting really frustrating having to spend 90% of my time trying to get people to STOP from trying to lynch know, claimed power roles.

huh? now you've really lost me...
since when was Kison or Scotmany, a claimed power role?

[Battle Mage]

so who was your post directed at?
t'would be nice if you could make it clear.

[Battle Mage]

Wow, this game did die.

Nothing that can' be revived by piling a few more votes on BattleMage, who has claimed scum several times already today.

is your lying chronic?

[Battle Mage]

hmm i guess that'll do for today.

Unvote, Vote: Kison

[Battle Mage]

See 1806.

Not sure whether MoS was kidding with his spoof/real investigation but the subsequent post from AC seems pretty much to me like scum giving up.

Ah! Now I see it.

vote: ac174382947fan

if your gonna vote me, at least get my username right and show me some respect.

if you expect respect from DGB you got another thing coming. at best, you can reasonably expect a sarcastic quip, alongside an ill-considered vote.

was that other post of yours a confession? similarly, i have to ask, you claim was a joke right MoS?

[Battle Mage]

was that other post of yours a confession? similarly, i have to ask, you claim was a joke right MoS?

Since ac43289789fan confessed, it hardly matters whether MoS's claim was serious, or in jest.

Rolefishing much, scumbag?

get a grip DGB. MoS has half-claimed Cop. if he's not scum, he'll probably get NKed tonight. its always good to make such a claim CLEAR, so the scum are wary of potential doc protection. similarly, its not wise to let MoS get away with inferring he is cop one day, then changing his story the next. it would be nice to get something concrete.
Your logic (or lack thereof) astounds me.

[Battle Mage]

let me be blunt. if MoS is actually claiming cop, we have 1 of 2 possibilities. he is either genuine Cop, or scum. now, it seems obvious to me, but ill repeat it for your benefit, that if MoS is not scum, he has placed himself as a probable NK target tonight. There are of course benefits to full claims rather than breadcrumbing. I wont spell it out to you, but really it doesnt take a genius to work out what im getting at.
Currently MoS has only half-claimed. Now if he is scum, its totally irrelevant anyway. But if he ISNT, and he genuinely is a cop, it is pretty obvious that he should now claim fully. The only reason i could see for not coming forward with a full-claim now, would be if he was vanilla townie, who wanted to take the bullet for a real cop.
But i'd like to make sure we dont lose a genuine power role through stupidity today.

if the claim was a joke, thats all well and good, but i'm not going to believe that until i hear it from MoS himself.

oh and i will be voting ACFan, but not until MoS has had a chance to read my post.

BM

get a grip DGB. MoS has half-claimed Cop. if he's not scum, he'll probably get NKed tonight. its always good to make such a claim CLEAR, so the scum are wary of potential doc protection. similarly, its not wise to let MoS get away with inferring he is cop one day, then changing his story the next. it would be nice to get something concrete.
Your logic (or lack thereof) astounds me.

I have a pretty good grip, sweet stuff. But we do not need a "clear" claim at this point. I rather believe that MoS might have been bluffing/joking, and in the off-chance that he's actually the cop, and I seriously doubt it, no townie would want him to confirm it.

Hence you are rolefishing, my dear BMscum, you are seeking confirmation that MoS is a cop, when it is very obvious to anyone with a brain cell that chances quite overhelming that he was joking - going by appearances.

[Battle Mage]

no offence Skruffs, but you dont have a clue what you are talking about. As i've already said, i want to hear the truth 'from the horse's mouth'. Not only that but I'm sure if anyone will understand what im getting at, it will probably be him. The fact that Acfan seemingly confessed is of course good, to the extent which it does not require discussion. Ive said that i agree that he is the lynch today. However, i have a very valid reason for not casting my vote until i have heard from MoS, and some others. I hope the town respects that.
i dont necessarily see your comments as a scumtell. I just see it as ignorance (and i dont mean that as an insult btw. I'm just saying that you obviously aren't seeing what i am)
Simply put, i'd like MoS to judge for himself. If he doesn't want to fully claim either way, thats his choice. Of course, i'm giving him the opportunity to do otherwise, should he so choose.

BM

*Oh and i realise this comes across as rolefishing on the surface, but it just isn't. thats WIFOM, but that's the only explanation im giving now.

Again, BM, the focus is not on MoS's claim, which was obviously joking. It is on 1983's reaction, which you seem to be only referring to in passing. IT doesn't matter wether Mos is really a cop or not - 1983 fessed up as soon as he saw the "claim" and has said nothing to say that he was just joking. So.... yeah, it doesn't matter if mos is a cop or not,a dn I'm surprised you would want Mos to confirm wether he was a cop or not. If he really is scum, than 1983 is not countering him with "You can't, I'm a townie". If he is atownie, he should claim a cop to draw kills tonight, but then you runt he risk of the real cop, if there is one, counter claiming. IF he really is a cop, he is still going to pull night kills.

The pro town thing, right now, is for MOS not to confirm anything.

[Battle Mage]

No, BM, you watn to out a power role and ignore the scum confession. I'm sorry if this comes accross as 'clueless', but that is exactly what you are doing. Let scum worry about wether he is scum or not and look at what 1983 said.

I hope you realize what a huge target you just put on yourself by saying you have a reason for wanting MOS to claim.

rofl. you are jumpy today aren't you? your attitude is surprising. I genuinely gave you more credit than the logic you are coming out with. Hell, maybe i sound arrogant, and you're angry about that, but just do me a favour, and think about what you are saying. A power-role may ALREADY have been outted. MoS-town has made himself scum enemy number 1. IF he is a cop, its in his interests to fully claim. Of course if he isnt a cop, i could sort of see your point, but really there are 2 glaring reasons which should encourage him to claim. Im amazed that nobody appears to have seen them. Thats why i'm asking for MoS (and anyone who hasnt already commented) to give their view. As for me ignoring the scum confession, that BS, and you know it!
However, i have to once again question your priorities.

oh and btw, i dont give a flying £$%* whether ive made myself a popular target in saying this. It doesnt take alot for scum to get me lynched. Maybe ive made it easier for them, but as i've said before, i care alot more about helping the town when i am alive, than i do about staying alive myself. You'll be thanking me at endgame.

BM

[Battle Mage]

leave him alone in what respect? you mean dont allow him to talk?

[Battle Mage]

hello!? im not asking him to claim. Im asking him to confirm the half claim he has already made. or are you so certain MoS is town, that you will allow him to go along with a half-claim, and decide a bit later as suits his fancy.

[Battle Mage]

If AC1983Fan comes back scum then yeh MoS looks pretty damn pro-town to me. Agree? - whatever role he has.

now that is just silly Theo. i really hope you were kidding there.
let me explain, in my eyes, what could well happen.

MoS claims guilty investigation result on Acfan. Acfan comes up scum. MoS claims he was only kidding, and IS NOT A COP.
In this case, MoS is highly likely to be scum.

MoS claims guilty investigation result on Acfan. Acfan comes up scum. MoS claims he was only kidding, and IS A COP.
In this case, MoS is significantly more likely to be town.

simple, no?
I am genuinely appalled at some of the rubbish that is being spouted in this game. No offence Theo, but you cant seriously tell me that you are willing to totally trust someone, who was confident enough in his suspicions to name a scumbag who was certainly guilty. The fact that Acfan confessed could also indicate a bussing.

MoS himself would be appalled by such logic.

[Battle Mage]

unvote vote:ac1983fan

SOMEONE HAMMAH!

This certainly backs up the bussing theory. MoS hasn't responded to my post, and his scumbuddy is anxious to end the day, so he doesnt have to. I'm more than a little wary of MoS at this point.

And no DGB, i wont be hammering, until MoS has posted a response to the recent comments.

If we have a Vig, please ffs kill DGB!

[Battle Mage]

I don't imagine that BM will live through the night.

huh? is that a threat?

[Battle Mage]

I don't imagine that BM will live through the night.

huh? is that a threat?

No, just a prediction.

on what grounds?

[Battle Mage]

WHat I think is hilarious is that BM is tryign to put all the atttention on a power role instead of addressing the outed scum, which is exactly what he did day one with lalms. ALways suspect the townies, never suspect the scum.
What I am REALLY Surprised is that BM hasn't sugested that MOS is scum bussing his buddy, which is what he NORMALLY says about people voting claimed scum.
BM, maybe you should claim, too, before 1983 gets hammered - you're definitely not getting any protection, tonight, and TCS's directing of the vig is in this case fairly apt.

You think I'm angry at you? Sorry.

Skruffs, im losing patience with you. Not only are you talking crap, but your talking crap that ive already responded to. Its like you have no intention of helping the town here. As i have ALREADY SAID, Acfan is getting lynched today. Big whoop. Its pretty clear cut, and im unsure what else you want me to say on the matter. The fact is, Acfan is not going to be the last scumbag in this game, and thus im still trying to find the others. The play by MoS was genius, but whether or not is proves him protown remains to be seen. its totally ridiculous that you are pretending to work hard, when in fact, you are flogging a dead horse, when you should actually be concentrating on what comes next.

But, in your favour, you have made useful comment. You think TCS was directing the vig? that's your interpretation, but i must say, i thought he was directing the scum. I genuinely dont think the Vig is dumb enough to try and NK me tonight. I dont even see WHY he would try, because as far as im aware, i havent done anything that could be construed as detrimental to the town.

however, any respect i did have for you is now gone. After all your bitching about me 'rolefishing from MoS' you go and do the exact same thing to me. I've explained my actions, how about you explain yours?

One thing is true though, there is a strong possibility i will be NKed tonight. If i am, here is my last will and testament:

Kill DGB.
Kill Scotmany.
Kill TCS.
Kill Kison.
Keep a close eye on MoS.
Keep a VERY close eye on Skruffs.

If you follow those guidelines, we've almost certainly won the game.

oh and Skruffs, you think you're angry-well im F£$KING FURIOUS with your play!
if you are town, expect one hell of an onslaught when the game is over.
if you are scum, i take it all back. Your play is exactly what i'd expect of you.

BM

BM

[Battle Mage]

omfg TCS. I'll say it once again just for you.

I AM NOT DEFLECTING FROM CLAIMED SCUM. ACFAN IS BLATANTLY THE PLAY, BUT THERE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED BEFORE WE GO INTO NIGHT. I COULD WELL ASK YOU WHY YOU ARE TRYING TO STIFLE DISCUSSION!

HOW THE HELL AM I OUTTING A COP, WHEN THE 'COP' HAS ALREADY CLAIMED? ITS LIKE YOU ARE FEELING AROUND IN THE DARK, AND KNOCKING EVERYTHING OVER IN YOUR BLINDNESS.

And fuck it, any half-decent Vig would realise that NKing me is stupid. I mean, maybe the Night 1 incident was understandable, but i dont think he/she will make the same mistake twice. However, i will say that if i do die tonight, dont assume that it is the vig. i'd say that the scum are going to be keen to have me dead tonight.

BM

I don't imagine that BM will live through the night.

huh? is that a threat?

No, just a prediction.

on what grounds?

Do you even read what you write?

You've been trying to deflect from CLAIMED SCUM and trying to OUT THE COP.

Pro-town play at its best. If I were vig, I would vig you in a heartbeat.

[Battle Mage]

1. were you being sarcastic? if you were, you shouldnt have been. If im half right on who i think is scum now, me getting NKed would be no surprise atall. Of course, you are a perfect scumhunter, so you know much better than me, and i may be wrong with all my suspicions. However, i highly doubt all of those things.

2. MoS's claim for one. Jalyn says that your comments deserve attention. I'd also like to hear an explanation from Skruffs, regarding his latest actions.

omfg TCS. I'll say it once again just for you.

I AM NOT DEFLECTING FROM CLAIMED SCUM. ACFAN IS BLATANTLY THE PLAY, BUT THERE ARE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED BEFORE WE GO INTO NIGHT. I COULD WELL ASK YOU WHY YOU ARE TRYING TO STIFLE DISCUSSION!

HOW THE HELL AM I OUTTING A COP, WHEN THE 'COP' HAS ALREADY CLAIMED? ITS LIKE YOU ARE FEELING AROUND IN THE DARK, AND KNOCKING EVERYTHING OVER IN YOUR BLINDNESS.

And fuck it, any half-decent Vig would realise that NKing me is stupid. I mean, maybe the Night 1 incident was understandable, but i dont think he/she will make the same mistake twice. However, i will say that if i do die tonight, dont assume that it is the vig. i'd say that the scum are going to be keen to have me dead tonight.

BM

I don't imagine that BM will live through the night.

huh? is that a threat?

No, just a prediction.

on what grounds?

Do you even read what you write?

You've been trying to deflect from CLAIMED SCUM and trying to OUT THE COP.

Pro-town play at its best. If I were vig, I would vig you in a heartbeat.

1. If you are town, why would the scum want you dead? I mean, after all, you're doing so much to help catch them.

2. What exactly are these important things that need to be discussed before acfan gets lynched?

[Battle Mage]

EXACTLY. You've hit the nail on the head here. You are fishing with the intention of stopping me getting killed tonight. I'M DOING THE EXACT SAME THING.
And yes Skruffs, i appreciate that you arent the scummiest player here, however your logic is so flawed, i get Pookified, and start ranting.

and in response to your question, no, i wont be claiming. If the Vig is dumb enough to target me, that's his problem. Me claiming cannot be of benefit at this time.
Dont get me wrong, i'm not saying i have total faith in the Vig to do the right thing. However, my only option is to trust them. Hopefully they will realise that it is far more beneficial to kill someone who WON'T be lynched during the day. Let me see tomorrow, and you won't regret it.

and i mean that.

Mod, can you please

Prod MoS

?

No, I am spartacus!

THe difference between me and you 'rolefishing' is that I am trying to give you a chance to keep yourself from being vigged, whereas you are trying to figure out who is or is not a cop, when at this point in the game it does not matter what MoS's role is.

I like how BM isn't worried about the 'confused town' but is worrired about someone who's helped confirm two pro-town roles in the game.
I'm so scummy it hurts. <3

This is why I think BM needs to claim now to avoid it, bbecause after all he has information that is useful, and if he knows he's going to be vigged as town, he should try to do somse last ditch effort to help town. If you are a power role other than scum, you need to tell us before someone hamers 1983 and your fate is sealed.

If I was the vig, I would vig BM tonight, too. That he doesn't realize, or pretends not to realize, why, while he stalls for a claim just adds more confidence that it would be a good vig.

[Battle Mage]

maybe, but as i say, in a game where it is best not to trust anyone, i'd like to hear it from him. The fact he hasn't shown up is worrying. If you are right, and he did try that as a gambit, he's definitely someone to keep an eye on.
oh and no, that scenario doesnt make sense, unless you are now suggesting that Acfan is in fact suicidal town. a scum-trio is possible, but very unlikely.
BM

to clarify - MOS never 'half claimed'.. He pulled the oldest townie gambit in history as a joke, that 1983 fell for. We are not voting for 1983 because MOS has an inspection on him, we are voting 198 for congradulating what he thought was a cop claim on him. Mos's joke was just a joke.

I wish someone would add something like "Oh yeah I investigated this person and they are scum"...
we could alwyas lynch theo...

Oh yeah, I investigated ac1983fan and they are scum...>_> <3 Skruffs?

bah, congradulations.

WHy haven't you suggested that I am scum with MOS and I Was day-talking with him to get an easy lynch on 1983? That's what the townie-BM1 from yesterday would do. You're being scummy-BM in the

wrong ways

.

[Battle Mage]

the answer to that is obvious. the big difference between bandwagonning someone during the day causing a lynch, and NKing someone, is that if someone is killed during the day, they have a chance to defend themselves. To put it simply for those of you not bright enough to get what im hinting at, I can PROVE my innocence. So, should i be the play for tomorrow, and if i deem it necessary to do so, i will explain why i am innocent, and we might have a chance at lynching scum. Of course, if i am Vigged, i dont get the chance to defend myself when it counts.
So, if the Vig has any sense, he will choose not to kill me tonight.
oh and while im picking your 'arguments' apart, why not explain why i am 'more likely than not scum'.

and btw Skruffs, this post adds another feather to your cap of idiocy. i dont think anyone knew who was the Vig, but well fecking done for revealing him.
now we have 4 revealed power roles, all of which could be killed tonight. bravo.

BM

WHy would the vig NOT want to kill someone that's more likely than not scum? That statement sounds like you are saying that vig should only hit people that everyone's NOT sure is scum. Defeats the point. THe point of day is to discuss reveal results and as a consensus try to lynch scum. IF we get two scum at a time, there's no point to give scum more nights to kill by lynching them one at a time. If theo wants to vig someone for being uber scumy than you better believe he's going to do it.

K. Well. I gave BM a chance to claim, he doesn't want to, is going to stall and contninue to try and distract town nad say he's town without actually doing anything townish except say that he's town. Sorry BM, but, if you do get vigged, you can't say that the vig is stupid since you are giving them no reason not to. my next post is the hammer.
If you want to just say you have a power role, i'll track you, and if the person you target doesn't die, you'll be cleared.

[Battle Mage]

right, the solution to this is obvious. Its pretty obvious that the scum have noticed Skruffs mistake. So,

RICH

You are probably going to die tonight. However, you really ought to go out with a victory. Here is what you do:

NK somebody. I reccommend any one of the following:
DGB, Kison, TCS, Scotmany

Do NOT NK me. I am not scum. I swear on our friendship that if you NK me, you will sorely regret it. I'm genuinely glad it is you who is the Vig. I have faith that you will make the right decision. If you never ever trust me again, trust me now.

sincerest thanks,
BM

[Battle Mage]

Once again BM, another joke. Skruffs did not come out and say theo was the vig. He simply put it there for added effect.

if he has, then he is stupider than i had previously thought.

[Battle Mage]

woah. shit.
I think its pretty clear that Skruffs was the mafia kill. That means the Vig actually LISTENED TO ME.
and even worse, i was FRIGGING WRONG!
On the bright side, im still alive, as is Rand. Assuming nothing dramatic has changed, i probably ought to claim.
BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, don't swear on your friendship. If you think you should not be vigged, maybe you should try defending yourself instead of pleading for the vig to not night kill you.

I'm sorry if that was a bad thing to do. I was just a little frustrated at the lack of perception i was seeing. I guess i did a Pooky.

[Battle Mage]

no, soz about that. Skruffs and MoS confused me ALOT.

[Battle Mage]

I DID NOT CLAIM COP, NOR DID I EVER TRY TO CLAIM COP. SKRUFFS MADE THAT PERFECTLY OBVIOUS IN MY ABSENCE. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE THOUGHT I WAS CLAIMING COP.

Clear enough?

It was still really funny.

Indeed.

you are seriously telling me you dont know what i was doing?
thats very disappointing MoS.
Sorry LFB, but i will claim now. I may not have any votes now, but i probably will do unless i can prove my innocence. so, ill save everyone some time.
Oh and TCS, i disagree about your suspicion of an SK. Im pretty sure the mafia kill on Night 1 involved both shooting and stabbing. I think thats how they differentiate between mafia and vig.
BM

[Battle Mage]

I AM THE DOC

Most of you should have worked it out by now. Skruffs obviously knows now, but its too late for him to reveal it. I had thought TCS had realised yesterday, hence the threat of me being NKed. Either TCS isnt scum, or he was just referring to a vig.
My play should be consistent with this. i tried to breadcrumb a little yesterday. When i replaced in, i didnt get a night choice, as night ended when i joined. my first night protect went to Rand Althor. We only had 1 kill on that night, and it was the same flavour as the previous Vig Kill that killed BM 1. I found it hard to believe that we had either multiple docs, or that the scum had chosen not to kill. Thus i am pretty sure that Rand is genuinely a Criminologist, as is reflected in my discussion with Theo yesterday.
The stuff with MoS should have really given me away. MoS, do you remember that game we played on AIM where i was a Doc? you had been killed Day 1, due to a Cop guilty result, and i was so confused about who to protect, i forget to protect the Cop. Anyway, if nothing else, that taught me to be damn sure who needed protection that night.
You half-claimed Cop. There were 2 ways of looking at it. On the one hand, it does look rather scummy if someone pops up, chooses a guy at random, saying he is scum, and then the next day, saying it was just luck. But the main reason i wanted you to claim, was because if you really were a Cop, i wanted to know whether to use night protect on you!

Then as the day neared an end, Skruffs throws another quandry into the equation, by seemingly revealing the Vig. again, 3 potential targets requiring protection. However his comments at the end of the day (which i wasnt able to respond to before the thread was locked) made sense, so i dont think Theo is the Vig, though i genuinely dont know why Skruffs was laying such traps for me.
If you read my plea to Theo (which was pretty stupid with hindsight) i believe i pointed out that he 'would not regret letting me live another night', because obviously i intended to reveal him, in the hope that the scum would target him over a Criminologist, and then i could protect him.

Oh and btw, im sorry i didnt protect Skruffs last night. It was a choice between him and Rand. Whilst Skruffs' role was significantly more useful, i was genuinely unsure whether he was town or scum, whereas i was certain that Rand was town, so i protected him again.

and thats about it. i'm also sorry about directing the vig to DGB. I'm now less confident about TCS scum, but i still think Kison needs watching.
I'm also very wary of MoS at this point. perhaps his trap for acfan was a genuine townie gambit. however, it seems a bit peculiar to me. To put it bluntly, he's far from confirmed town.

i hope this is all pretty clear. Ive virtually cleared Rand, and prevented a bad mislynch today.
might go some way to repairing the terrible play ive exhibited in this game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yeh this claim at least means that if another power role is outted, they are guaranteed another night.

[Battle Mage]

Mastermind of Sin - Did not claim cop, but I think we can call him town.

WOAH. are you kidding me?
How the hell did you work that one out?

HoS: TCS

for that statement alone.

[Battle Mage]

oh and LFB, with regard to your claim, i assume you have reread Skruffs posts carefully in order to verify whether TCS-Vig fits. I mean, Skruffs knew who the Vig was, so by his suspicions, we can get a pretty good idea of who it ISNT. Its now a case of whether you can prove that Skruffs was genuinely suspicious of TCS-moreso than the other name which you choose not to divulge.

BM

[Battle Mage]

true lol.
however, there is the possibility that he genuinely noticed that i was hinting at a power role, and chose to believe me.
not a particularly strong possibility, but still... lol

[Battle Mage]

Yeah, reading through it, it's obvious that Skruffs didn't think TCS was the vig. Doing another read through though, dispells my belief that the other name is the vig.

BM, you're going to love this.

Kison, what are you doing with a gun?

I post this name because Skruffs tried to out you by asking you who you targetted on Day 3. I don't think he would have done that to the vig if he really thought that person was the vig. So, yeah, again : Kison, what are you doing with a gun?

lol you're right. 2 people ive been campaigning to get lynched for ages, and at least 1 is certain scum. Of course, potentially both could be. 1 thing though, if Skruffs asked Kison who he targetted last night, that might suggest that he KNEW KISON HAD A POWER ROLE. So yeh, im not sure which is the better play for today.
BM

[Battle Mage]

a tracker and criminologist combo is a very powerful tool. I track someone to teh dead person - criminologist tells me what that person is - person is cleared or indicated. IT would even catch godfathers. So don't go knocking the criminologist OR the tracker.
BM's not the play today, regardless of if I vote him or not. I can only handle so much ridiculousness though.

Fos : THeopor, Kison

Kison, you never answered my question. Who'd you target last night?

To which Kison's response was 'I didnt target anybody'. Now Rand can presumably confirm whether yesterday nights only NK was a Vig or Mafia kill. If it was, as i suspect, a Vig Kill, Kison is almost certainly not the Vig, meaning he is certainly scum. TCS is then by no means confirmed town, but we cant at least give him another night to prove he is the vig somehow.

Of course, what doesnt make sense is that Skruffs seemed to know, out of the blue, that Kison had a power role. This was an unprompted, inexplicable question. It might suggest that Skruffs knew Kison was Vig, as it followed a discussion about who had made the kill in the preceding night. However, in this case, the FOS doesnt make sense.

BM

[Battle Mage]

If the kill comes up to be a vig kill, why does that rule out kison as the vig. I'm very curious as to why you think so BM.

because he said he didnt target anyone.

[Battle Mage]

And that makes him scum? That makes no sense BM. If the he didn't want to reveal himself as the vig, of course he is going to say he didn't target anyone.

Skruffs asked the question in such a cryptic fashion, it seemed very simple for Kison to respond in kind. However, he didnt even question the statement. He simply denied it.
Of course, this is all speculation until Rand shows up.

[Battle Mage]

Skruffs didn't place any scrutiny on me at all. Skruffs KNEW my alignment, and our exchanges clearly indicate this fact. That you are completely misrepresenting the facts makes me think that you, LFBProd, are scum.

I think we should lynch Kison today, vig LFBProd, and investigate Theopor or Twito's replacement.

On an unrelated note, no one's even wondering where Braze, Lowell, or Voidybuns are, either.

LFB, i have to agree with TCS on this. I reread Skruffs, and he seemed slightly more suspicious of Kison than TCS. However TCS, i dont think this different of opinion is enough to suggest that LFB is scum, when his play has been giving off strong town vibes to me.
I take strong objection to your threat to Vig a power role.

BM

[Battle Mage]

that all said, TCS makes a strong case. Could you please do me a favour and quote examples of your breadcrumbing?
then i would like to hear from Kison.

Oh and on another note, i have 1 more request. In light of the possibility that NEITHER of these is the real vig, the real vig must claim NOW. You are guaranteed another night of survival, and you will be able to out 2 more scumbags for us.

In order to verify that there are no counter claims, can everybody state 'Not Vig', so we can eliminate them from our enquiries into a possible counter.

Obviously, i'm 'Not Vig'.

[Battle Mage]

true lol.
however, there is the possibility that he genuinely noticed that i was hinting at a power role, and chose to believe me.
not a particularly strong possibility, but still... lol

Why are you feeding TCS his claim?

lol im not. im doing something most people wouldnt consider me doing in their wildest dreams. Im using the evidence we have to come to a reasonable conclusion. Your seeming defence of Kison is noted.
As is Kisons panicked tone in post 1953. Why do you say i am jumping to conclusions, when i specifically said that i wanted to hear what you had to say?

[Battle Mage]

Hmm. This makes things alot more confusing. Can somebody reasonably trustworthy tell me whether Gunsmith is a reasonably common role? (about as common as Criminologist).
To look at it one way, the possibility of a pair of Gunsmiths to go with the confirmed pair of criminologists, looks good. On the other hand, the fact that you have evidently noticed this perfection means it could potentially be a clever scum ploy.

It does however seem a bit coincidental that Kison claimed the EXACT SAME ROLE, AND MECHANICS as LFBProd. His story about Skruffs misses one vital part.
Why do you suppose Skruffs knew you had a power role?

Now im torn. I'd still like to hear Rands result. I was previously inclined to believe TCS was Vig, but of course, this confuses things. Im starting to get the impression that the scum could just be copying the roles claimed by town.

Im going to tentatively

Vote: Kison

based on a combination of his previous scumminess, and weakness of his claim. However that may not be permanent depending on what else comes up.

Battle Mage, I don't know why you're jumping to conclusions, such as the fact that we will both CLAIM Vigilante, but you should probably stop. I'm not the Vigilante either. And unfortunately, I am now in the position where I must claim.

I am the/a Gunsmith

- My role works precisely as LFBProd described. I may select a player every night, and am told whether or not the player owns a gun.

Night Actions/Explanations :

On Night One

: I investigated Battle Mage and was told that he had no gun. Shit!

On Night Two

: I investigated AlexPaoletti and was told that he had no gun. So why did I lie about not targetting anyone? Well, please tell me why I should have told the truth. I waited a long while before I decided on how to handle the situation, because I was not ready to claim nor even hint at the fact that I had a role, which was my initial response to Skruff's question. There were a few ways I could have seen this playing out :

1) I could have told the truth. This would require a full claim without having any useful results. This would have played out with me either being lynched for having confessed to having targetted someone who was night killed, or put me in a good position to be night killed over having a very threatening role against scum.

2) I could have lied, yet claimed I targetted someone else. I considered this, but again, I did not want to hint at my having a role. Role = better target for scum.

3) I could have lied and claimed I targetted nobody. This would hint at the possibility that I am a vanilla townie. Guess what? It seemed to work.

On Night Three

: I investigated LFBProd and was told that he had a gun. Bingo, but at this point, I wasn't sold on his being scum. My guess is that Cops and Vigilantes(obviously) show up as having guns. However, by the time he claimed, I was sort of in a state of shock over having seen my own role claimed. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense. What do gunsmiths do? They repair firearms. It's pretty much a deja-vu of the Criminologist fiasco from before.

Unfortunately, this puts all three of us in a rather tough situation. We have two claimed Gunsmiths, just as we had two claimed Crimonologists. I don't know whether or not I believe The Central Scrutinizer, however, my concern still lies with his supposed town tells on Scotmany that he refused to speak about. So I will ask again that he speak up on that subject.

[Battle Mage]

oh and surprise surprise. All Kisons targets so far (other than LFB) have died on the night he investigated them.

[Battle Mage]

thats poor logic. You surely understand what im getting at. Lets say you are telling the truth, and LFB is lying (although i know the two are not mutually intrinsic). Do you really expect us to believe that LFB not only picked your role out of thin air, and described the mechanics EXACTLY how they are for you!?

the bit with Skruffs still bugs me. I mean, if he had said something as cryptic to me, i would have probably made a big deal over it. Maybe thats not necessarily the best thing to do, but it IS the sort of thing i would expect from you Kison. Yet you IGNORED IT. Now, im pretty damn sure that Kison-town would have looked at that comment, and at least queried it. However, you havent.

Also Kison, please direct me to a completed game in which a gunsmith got a guilty result on a Cop.

Im pretty sure now that Kison is the play. Of course, should he come up scum, we also have an easy lynch choice tomorrow.

BM

It does however seem a bit coincidental that Kison claimed the EXACT SAME ROLE, AND MECHANICS as LFBProd.

Coincidental? What, do you think we'd have the same role with

different

mechanics? Do you think Rand and Battle Mage The First had different mechanics? My guess would be no. So it's

not

a coincidence.

His story about Skruffs misses one vital part.
Why do you suppose Skruffs knew you had a power role?

How in the world would I know if/how he knew I had a role?

I'm sorry, but this is rediculous. You can't be a gunsmith with a gun. Otherwise you'd be able to kill someone at night as well. You have a gun, you can kill at night. End of story.

Unvote: TCS

Do you even know what gunsmiths do? They make and repair guns. Obviously I'd have one lying around, but that doesn't mean it'd be loaded, just as with you. It's just like if you had someone repair a DVD player. You don't send it in loaded with a DVD. You don't have the lock on your safe repaired with money inside. You don't have your gun repaired with it fully loaded. In most normal games, Cops, Gunsmiths, and Vigilantes

do

come up as having a gun when investigated by the gunsmith. I don't know why cops don't in this game, but it could perhaps have something to do with us not even

having

a cop, but you are definitely jumping the gun(no pun intended) by immediately dismissing the claim.

[Battle Mage]

Now im torn. I'd still like to hear Rands result. I was previously inclined to believe TCS was Vig, but of course, this confuses things. Im starting to get the impression that the scum could just be copying the roles claimed by town.

Where are you getting this impression from? We already established that Lalm was given a safe claim of Criminologist. That's as good as proven right now. I agree that Kison's claim is fishy, but I'm concerned with some of your statements and attacks regarding him. I'd rather you rethink your reasons and not vote him and he turn up scum (he wouldn't last long anyway), than have us lynch him for entirely the wrong reasons, scum or not.

Lol when did you establish that? i must've been takin a whizz, coz that is total crap. We now know that Lalm was SCUM and Rand was TOWN. Do you seriously trust Lalm-scum when he said he had a safe-claim? dont be ridiculous! He was mafia! He's not going to deliberately give away his scumbuddies main weapon. Its infinitely more likely that he just copied Rands claim. Currently there is not one good reason i could see which makes TCS a better play today than Kison. Granted, there is a possbility that TCS is scum aswell. There is certainly evidence in favour of that.
On the other hand, for every bit of incriminating evidence on TCS, there are 2 or 3 on Kison. And lets face it, letting them both live through today, would itself be criminal. Thats why im voting for Kison.

[Battle Mage]

I would have made a big deal out of it, because Skruffs claimed TRACKER. he said he knew who the Vig was. Now, far be it from me to state the obvious, but if he claimed to know that i had a power role, and I WASN'T THE VIG, I'd be keen to draw it to everyone's attention, as it would suggest that Skruffs might not be who he claimed to be. Now, had Kison claimed Vig, i might have believed him over TCS based on this one example of breadcrumbing. However Kison has not claimed Vig.

the bit with Skruffs still bugs me. I mean, if he had said something as cryptic to me, i would have probably made a big deal over it. Maybe thats not necessarily the best thing to do, but it IS the sort of thing i would expect from you Kison. Yet you IGNORED IT. Now, im pretty damn sure that Kison-town would have looked at that comment, and at least queried it. However, you havent.

Why would you have made a big deal out of it, BM? Are you that eager to reveal to the scum that you have a power role? Is there a reason to out yourself just because a tracker asked if you targetted anyone?

Also Kison, please direct me to a completed game in which a gunsmith got a guilty result on a Cop.

Yakuza mafia, perhaps. It had a gunsmith that did not detect one of the scum, and I think it might've detected cops as well.

Also, http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Gunsmith
Note that cops are listed as having a gun under the traditional role description. Although I fail to see how this is relevant at all, since both Kison and LFBProd have confirmed that their roles, if they aren't lying, do not detect cops.

*shrug* I hope that expediates the discussion.

[Battle Mage]

hmm, interesting, but i'd hardly call it conclusive!
We've already established that there was an actual Criminologist in this game (2 in fact). By definition, a safe-claim is one that nobody else can match. So, i can say with come certainty that Lalm did not have Criminologist as a safeclaim, unless we have a Bastard Mod who really wants a town win. :p
Lalms slip of the tongue is, admittedly, noteworthy, but it cannot logically be more than a coincidence.

[Battle Mage]

much as its nice to have a discussion on tactics that i understand, im pretty sure you're wrong MoS. I had always thought that the concept of a safe-claim was a claim that would help the scum blend in. Maybe i am wrong, and the definition is broader, but the fact remains that your scenario offered, does not do that. So, we have 2 actual criminologists. A third criminologist claims. Are you seriously telling me that you would have no doubts that a THIRD useless power role would exist?
True enough, BM 1 was in that position, and fell for it hook line and sinker. But still, to look at it from this point of view, there is absolutely no way on Earth you could accurately claim that with 2 claimed CRIMINOLOGISTS, a 3rd claiming would be universally believed. Tbh, we were sceptical enough about 2 criminologists. scum claiming to be a 3rd, would be put down as outright liars.
I think im probably misunderstanding you here, because what you are saying makes no sense.
The simple question is, what is more likely, 2 of the same power role, or 3 of the same power role, in a game?

BM

hmm, interesting, but i'd hardly call it conclusive!
We've already established that there was an actual Criminologist in this game (2 in fact). By definition, a safe-claim is one that nobody else can match. So, i can say with come certainty that Lalm did not have Criminologist as a safeclaim, unless we have a Bastard Mod who really wants a town win. :p
Lalms slip of the tongue is, admittedly, noteworthy, but it cannot logically be more than a coincidence.

You're wrong. A Safe Claim, by definition, is one that the town will likely believe. The fact that there were two criminologists made it more likely that we'd believe Lalm's claim, since counterclaiming him doesn't do anything. Had there only been one protown criminologist, it wouldn't have been a safe claim. There

had

to be two for it to be a safe claim, and lalm's posts nearly guarantee that he had it as a safe claim.

[Battle Mage]

interesting comments. I agree with you about Jalyn, but i would be intrigued to know why you think MoS is town.

TCS- your Vig target should be obvious. If Kison comes up scum, i'd bet money on Scotmany being his buddy. Should Kison come up town, Im not so sure. I'll let you decide that yourself should it happen. Obviously if somebody else is a Vig, then its safe to assume TCS is lying, so he would be the good kill.

MoS- in response to post 1990, Skruffs suggested that Kison had a power role, by asking him who he targetted the previous night.

BM

So we got claims coming from everywhere. Really looking forward to CTD's input, a fresh face's thoughts will be appreciated.

Of the others we got -

BM - Doctor.
TCS - Vig
Rand - Criminlogist
LFBProd - Gunsmith
Kison - Gunsmith

I'm all for power roles but with a dead Tracker, Role Blocker and Criminologist that makes 8 out of 21. Seems excessive but then again that's just me I guess. Shoot me for it . . .

Of the others MoS and Jalyn I have firmly entrenched in the town camp.

I want to hear from BrazeGoesMoo, Lowell, SV - nowhere near enough content and I don't want this day to end until we get some content, even if they get shipped out and replaced. Infact do give them a sharp prod please mod.

As for Kison his interactions with Lalmstreek had me pin him down as town but I believe LFBProd's claim ahead of his, I do think one of them is lying. I'm going to have re-read Kison and Raging Rabbit. TCS for now I believe . . . his play regards ac1983fan could be considered defensive. He was however pretty aggressive against Alex Paoletti so for now I believe him.

Also need to re-read ac1983fan see who he's attacked and what not.

[Battle Mage]

Im surprisingly up together with this game atm, hence my uber-activity.
Ive commented on who should be killed if Kison comes up scum (Scotmany obv). However, if he comes up town, we need another choice. I really dont know why you put yourself in the 'To Vig' category. I also think Theo is a bad choice. The other 3 havent posted much content that i can recall, and i tend to dislike Vigging people who havent got their suspicions down clearly.
oh but i do disagree with your comments on MoS. Whilst he is far from scummy-looking in comparison to some people today, i wouldnt go as far to say he looks town. The thing with Acfan doesn't present him in the best light imo. I agree that it would not have been planned as a gambit at night, but i find it quite possible that MoS took the initiative and threw his buddy under the bus.

MoS-what you say is true, but that doesnt make it a safe-claim. rather it puts you into the limelight with numerous others.

oh and

Unvote

i dont want Kison to die before we hear the result of Rand. I dont find his evasiveness amusing when we are waiting to proceed with the game...

BM

TCS, I would say that the vig kill should be among this group (assuming we lynch Kison):

theopor_COD
Spectrumvoid
Jalyn
BrazeGoesMoo
Lowell
Scotmany

If Kison comes up scum, scotmany would make the most sense to me. (He defended RR during the Twito/RR debacle and Kison when BM2 went after him day 2.)

If Kison comes up town... perhaps SV or BGM because of inactivity? (Lowell and Scotmany are also inactive, but at least they've posted recently. Scotmany has been very active in the past)

As for the others:

Rand Althor - claimed criminologist. Confirmed by Skruffs, dead tracker. (Did we get a result from yesterday's kills?)

LFBProd (replacing Wizardcat) - Claims gunsmith. Found claimed vig and Kison (claimed gunsmith, admits to having gun) Seemingly confirmed?

The Central Scrutiniser (replacing Fircoal) - Claims vig. No counterclaim seems to confirm.

Mastermind of Sin - Probably not mafia based on interaction with ac1983fan. The setup would be a strange planned gambit ("At some point, I'll jokingly announce that I investigated you and found scum, you pretend to fall for it and we'll lynch you, but I'll look good." And then someone else happens to set up the joke for MoS. Improbable at best) On the other hand, it's unlikely that ac1983 would have responded to a joke made by his scum buddy in this manner.)

CrashTextDummie (replacing Twito) - No claim, hasn't really been involved for quite some time. If Kison comes up as mafia, the bitter fight between Twito & Raging Rabbit will look interesting.

Battle Mage 2 (replacing StallingChamp who replaced Zarvok) - Claims doctor, no counterclaim but I'm not sure that there would be one. Not confirmed.

As a note, I included myself on the first list because I didn't fit in either the "probably confirmed claim" list or on the "tangible reason to believe not mafia" list. It seemed wrong to leave myself off of it, especially as Theo is there for the same reason, not because he's done anything to make me think he's scum.

[Battle Mage]

BS. This STILL doesnt explain why Skruffs knew you had a power role, or more to the point, why you didn't pick up on the fact that YOU WERE THE ONLY PERSON HE ASKED.

but it strikes me as odd that Kison called his bluff. As a protown role, you would think that he would do his best to avoid being caught in a lie.

I thought I already made that part excruciatingly clear :

1) I feared Skruffs was trying too hard to determine whether or not I had a role. I didn't want to make any hint of it so scum wouldn't target me. Maybe if I had a crappy role like Criminologist, I wouldn't care, but my role is important enough for me to want to lay low.
2) I didn't want to tell my target because doing so would reveal that I targeted the same person who happened to die. This would cast enough suspicion on me for me to be forced to claim without having any useful information.

Battle Mage - You said you found it convenient that I targeted two players who happened to die. Do you know

why

I targeted them? Because, obviously, they were scummy enough from their previous actions that I thought it would be useful to determine whether or not they possessed a weapon. Well, apparently the Vigilante, as I would assume, caught on and took it one step further.

Do I get a last supper? Mashed potatoes if you'd please.

[Battle Mage]

FFS Kison... do you even care about this game any more!?
If so, stop avoiding the question, which is, why didnt you cast suspicion on him for such a tactic? i mean, if somebody who had claimed tracker, inferred that they knew i was a Vig, and yet i wasn't, i'd be pretty suspicious.
You, apparently, weren't.

also, what Scotmany thing?

BS. This STILL doesnt explain why Skruffs knew you had a power role, or more to the point, why you didn't pick up on the fact that YOU WERE THE ONLY PERSON HE ASKED.

I did pick up on the fact that I was the only one he asked. In any event, we knew at that point he had the tracking ability. I don't know why he chose to ask me, and I don't know what he hoped to gain out of it, but at the time it looked like he was trying to get something out of me by using his role as a scare-tactic, and I -think- that I guessed correctly. The fact remains that I wasn't prepared to give away my role, which is why I acted as I did.

In response to theopor, I don't know who the best lynch candidate would be at this point. As of the beginning of the day I'd have said Battle Mage, but I have since changed that stance as a result of his claim. I think he is a high priority night-kill target for scum, and the doctor role is one we want to keep alive to protect one of our claimed players for as long as we can. Rand and LFB are the only two I'd say are town without and hint of doubt.

There are a couple of concerns that remain, but they are very minor :

Spectrumvoid/Lowell Lurking - Both have since responded to this concern

Jalyn/Blahgo - I hope we haven't forgotten the horrible Blahgo play from earlier, but again, at this point, I'd call this a minor offense, one which may be attributed to the player of Blahgo, as Jalyn has been doing considerably well since replacing in.

Theopor's Rand Campaign - Unwarranted, and proven to have been incorrect. Theopor has since changed his stance on the situation, but only after having been proven incorrect beyond reasonable doubt.

I'm not too familiar with the Scotmany thing you're going on about, Battle Mage, though I do recall you making some reference to it previously, so please fill me in on that again.

[Battle Mage]

ffs way to lynch without letting Rand tell us his result...

[Battle Mage]

oh btw, if and when Kison comes up scum,

KILL SCOTMANY

If you dont believe anything else i ever say again, do this.

thanks,
BM

*oh and don't put too much trust in MoS. He's acting town atm, but there are some question marks by his name.

[Battle Mage]

For Kison

TCS, I'd say vig either Scotmany or Spectrumvoid, flip a coin or something. That way the scum can't be sure who you are taking out

Jalyn weren't you listening?

VIG SCOTMANY

Mod can you please prod Rand

.
Assuming its still Day, we need to hear from him before we hammer.

[Battle Mage]

Yes, I was listening. And I see no reason to let the scum know exactly who the vig target is going to be anymore than I think you should announce who you will be protecting tonight.

I do, however, agree with "Rand?! What did you find out last night?" So we're at lynch -1, not night?

unvote

until we hear from Rand.

i dont think the former really matters unless we are expecting a scum-doc.

[Battle Mage]

woah, wait a minute. If Alex was Mafia kill, my vouching for Rand is no longer valid. It is still possible that scum and Vig killed Alex together, but i am actually shocked that it was a scumkill, rather than a Vig Kill. It also throws some doubt on the TCS claim.
On the other hand, i'm still happy to lynch Kison today. What this does mean is that there is some serious doubt with some of our power roles, where there previously was very little.

Vote: Kison

[Battle Mage]

OK, we have a vig, because Rand confirmed BM1 was killed by said vig. So, it's safe to

unvote, vote:Kison

and say "Hey, vig? Kill TCS tonight as your counterclaim."

good idea. ofc if TCS is Vig, follow my instructions earlier.

wait...does that mean i shouldnt protect TCS?

oh and Jalyn, in response to your question in post 2053:

Yes.

[Battle Mage]

NAW WAI. If TCS-Vig doesn't kill tonight, we have no way of validating him!
Besides, it would allow us another mislynch, assuming he targets Scot-scum.

is it just me, or is Kisons last post an outright lie?

Who to believe.

LFBProd claims Gunsmith - claims he's found a Gun on Kison and TCS.
TCS claims Vig - has killed Alex Paoletti and DGB
Kison claims Gunsmith - investigations so far Battle Mage, Alex Paoletti then investigates LFBProd and he shows up with a Gun.

Note I don't think a Gunsmith should have a gun, correct? My recollection of the role was only mafia, vigs maybe cops? I don't buy Kison's little claim that he'd have an old gun in his shed or whatever.

What? Why is it that I am surrounded by people intent on lynching Kison for bullshit reasons? His claim that a gunsmith would have a gun

makes sense

, because

HE MAKES GUNS

. However, this claim is countered by LFBProd's assertion that he can only find people who make nightkills. This means one of them is mistaken (LFBProd) or lying (Kison).

The other little sideshow obviously is Rand has revealed Mafia killed Alex. Which means TCS is lieing or Rand is lieing - I'm still not putting Rand down as confirmed - there was only kill Night Two the night Skruffs followed Rand - he could well have been blocked - either way he's not 100% confirmed as pretty much everyone else is saying . . not for me anyhow, not yet. Mind one of Rand or TCS is telling porkies.

Rand is confirmed. Skruffs tracked him to a target

that was already dead

. Scum would not be able to target a dead person. Only the criminologist can do that. When will you stop trying to sling misdirection and confusion on Rand's confirmed claim?

FoS: theopor

I would like Rand to confirm that he indeed targetted Alex. If so, TCS is a guaranteed scum, perhaps even more than Kison. I would not be surprised if both were mafia caught by LFBProd. The only thing left to decide is which do we lynch today, and which tomorrow. My personal opinion leads towards TCS, but that's more out of strategic value than thinking him scummier. Killing TCS rids us of a possible second kill, if he is SK or Vig. Even if he is a protown Vig (not likely given Rand's result), he has not successfully killed scum to this point, so I would not want to risk losing another townie to his kill. This, of course, is all subject to Rand's confirmation of his result.

I have read my role PM over and over again. I am not mistaken. His claim as a Gunsmith is false. Also, because of the new revelation that the Alex kill was scum, not vig, TCS has got some serious explaining to do.

I don't want to say that we should kill him should he be an actual town vig, because that's just a wasted lynch, when someone else is much more preferable (Kison). If TCS is the vig, I would ask him not to do a night kill. If he isn't, then it would make sense for the real vig ot kill him.

[Battle Mage]

only evidence of an actual RB will validate such a claim at this point.

[Battle Mage]

With so many role claims in a day, I would rather the Role Blocker not claim.

rofl. way to state something that in other games would be obvious, but here is actually worth saying.

[Battle Mage]

only evidence of an actual RB will validate such a claim at this point.

Dragon Phoenix (Roleblocker) shot night 1

Dare I say:

GG Reading Retention

rofl. thanks for the reminder MoS.

@Kison-yes, i think it is justified to consider an annoying scumbag a burden in mafia. :p

[Battle Mage]

not bad, but you missed something pretty vital. The possibility that both Vig and Mafia targetted THE SAME PERSON. Admittedly, it's not very likely, hence we will have to test TCS tonight. However its not a good enough case to see him hang today.
oh and i think the case for TCS being an SK is weak, seeing as Rand claimed that TCS's claimed target was a Mafia-Kill, and we have no evidence of a 3rd klling role.


BM

is it just me, or is Kisons last post an outright lie?

No, it's not. Let's take a step back and look, here...

1) Rand al'Thor has been confirmed beyond all possible doubt that he is a Criminologist by Skruffs.

2) Skruffs has been confirmed beyond all possible doubt to have been confirmed to be the Tracker who confirmed Rand al'Thor.

3) Our confirmed Criminologist has told us that our claimed Vigilante lied to us, either in his claim or in who he targeted. One of the murders he claimed to have committed was indeed the act of the Mafia.

To me, that is

proof

that he is Mafia, whether or not you wish to acknowledge it.

[Battle Mage]

not bad, but you missed something pretty vital. The possibility that both Vig and Mafia targetted THE SAME PERSON. Admittedly, it's not very likely, hence we will have to test TCS tonight. However its not a good enough case to see him hang today.

And are you claiming that you mysteriously know that if both Vigilante and Mafia target the same person, that ONLY one will show up in the Criminologist's report?

lol i dont KNOW, but i'd say its more likely than not (not that i ever had the chance to test that )

[Battle Mage]

TCS please hammer, and kill Scotmany tonight.

[Battle Mage]

giving up and going along with the plan of others?
that doesnt sound like normal MoS behaviour... :O

[Battle Mage]

wow. and i mean wow. I'm still alive!
and even more surprising, Scotmany wasn't scum.

[Battle Mage]

I think TCS not being vigged confirms him. The fact that Scotmany is dead, as requested, and I believe him. I was thinking about Rand's results and I wonder if the result on Alex was because both the vig and the mafia use guns to kill - as in Rand can only tell the first kill because it's the same weapon?

I am, however, going to

FOS:Battle Mage

. Why is LFBProd dead? That was the obvious night protection.

lol i told you i suck at choosing the right person, though tbh LFBProd was never in the equation for me. I was torn between Rand and TCS. actually the Mod can verify at endgame that i sent in TCS as my protect originally, before remembering that we were testing his claim :p
So then i changed to Rand, mainly because i was dubious about his results so far. also, as a CONFIRMED power role, i figured the scum would consider him a good target.

BM
in the light of things, i feel we got off lucky.

[Battle Mage]

While I'm glad Rand's alive and all, I think it would have made much more sense to make sure the closest thing we had to a cop still living made it through the night.
And what has made BM "pro-town" when two days ago he was so scummy that people were begging him to claim lest he get vigged? He claimed doc? I don't remember him being so incredibly pro-town yesterday that he should get a pass. After a quick reread, he went very hard after Kison, is that what you meant?

As for TCS, ok, so the vig was roleblocked or TCS was protected. Why is scotmany dead?

i think its pretty obvious i'm town. i mean i breadcrumbed about as blatantly as possible. Not to mention the fact that i have been going after Kison-scum literally since Day 1. Oh yeah, and the fact that there wasnt a case on me to begin with.

FoS: Jalyn

trying to cast suspicion on the doc is almost always a bad idea.

[Battle Mage]

oh yeah, and

Vote: MoS

not only do i get a scummy vibe from him, but the only player here who would know just how bad i am as Doc, and thus leave me alive. I'm sure that if MoS wasn't scum, i'd be dead already.

[Battle Mage]

i doubt we have a SK. though i spose if we do, RA would be his logical target.

[Battle Mage]

The "stabbed repeatedly" part of Skruffs death notice seems to indicate the existence of one. I'm not sure why MoS or I are the most likely SKs though? But... BM, you said that there was NO doc protection night 1?

That would have to mean that either the SK didn't try to kill or DP blocked him? I'm going to go back and read DP.

i replaced in at the start of Day 2. As far as i am aware, no protect was made. I could check with the mod though if you think it matters...

[Battle Mage]

DGB was killed by a vig.

unFoS: TCS

I guess this clears him, although I am still quite confused by his "mafia" result on Alex Paoletti, because it makes no sense at all for the mafia to have killed him.

actually with regard to posts like these, i can sort of see where TCS is coming from with the MoS-SK theory.

As for Jalyn always acting sickeningly protown, unfortunately that is the case in my experience, regardless of alignment. I am finding it difficult to see Jalyn as scum, and certainly not the play for today at least.

[Battle Mage]

i cant see the logic for voting SV today. MoS is the play.

[Battle Mage]

i cant see the logic for voting SV today. MoS is the play.

Backup roleblocker is a pretty weak-sounding role, TBH. There's a legitimate discussion there.

even so, lynching a claimed power role is poor form, when there is somebody even more scummy who hasnt claimed a power role.

[Battle Mage]

"other scumgroup"?
we have 2 scumgroups now? as well as an SK?
wonderful news..
but ill humour you with a response. It is possible that the second scum group, knowing that there were other anti-town killing roles, chose not ton waste their NK on the Doc, thinking someone else woudl kill him. However i seriously doubt we have 4 killing roles still in the game, when we have yet to see even 3 NK's at night.

oh and MoS, the case is greater than that post alone. My suspicion of you was mainly arroused by your interaction with Acfan, which stank of bussing even moreso than Kison and Lalm. Not to mention the fact that, after you exhibited this behaviour, people started suggesting you were confirmed protown. Again, there is absolutely no logic to such statements, therefore it figured that some people had special reason to protect you.

I will reread your interactions with Kison later on.

BM

BM, why must you insist, as usual, to vote me without presenting a reasonable case, and then completely ignoring my responses to you?

oh yeah, and

Vote: MoS

not only do i get a scummy vibe from him, but the only player here who would know just how bad i am as Doc, and thus leave me alive. I'm sure that if MoS wasn't scum, i'd be dead already.

BM, everyone

in this game

has evidence that you are a bad Doc, because they saw Skruffs die without protection. Also, you are claiming that I am responsible for the kills of ALL the scumgroups, which makes no sense whatsoever. If I am the only person who knew you were a bad doc (which we have already established to be a false claim), why did the other scumgroup not kill you?

I am interested in seeing how you justify the last question, because I only see one logical answer, but that answer is again nullified in and of itself.

[Battle Mage]

how about you do BM a favour, and reread MoS's posts in their entirety?
then give some detailed feedback.
upon completing this task, you will forgiven for all your lurkiness over the course of the game.

[Battle Mage]

hmm an interesting analysis. I don't agree with some parts, but i can certainly appreciate your PoV.

[Battle Mage]

no, soz i forgot lol. i am pming the mod NOW.
also can we please quit it with the "MoS is not Mafia, he must be SK" stuff. or at least, if you do wish to say that, please back it up with something more than the fact that he bussed his buddy. In response to the same point being made by Lowell, the fact is, the behaviour by Acfan when MoS made the jokey claim was EXACTLY what he would do if they were scumbuddies. Its pretty reasonable to assume that if MoS found himself in a scumgroup with Lalm, Acfan and Kison, he probably admitted that he would bus them if necessary. Acfan had picked up alot of heat preceding that, and it looked very rehearsed from where i was sitting.

Lowell, what didn't you like about Twito's vote for Kison? Did you go back into day 1 to remember the RR/Twito interaction or are you just looking at the "lynch Kison already" posts that Twito made for months? It was the day 1 interaction that made me think that it wasn't likely that CTD was mafia.

I agree that MoS is not mafia, have not cleared of being the SK.

Spreaking of SKs:
BM, have you found out about the Night 1 protection?
SV's claim of blocking Theoper_COD last night could be interesting. (How likely is an alternating night kill for a SK?)

Well if TCS says there's an SK I'd do well to believe him.

I think we're looking at one more mafia and an SK.

vote CTD

. I having this nagging suspicion that he and kison were on the same team.

Why does TCS insisting that there's a SK convince you?

[Battle Mage]

no. let's not. I've tried to explain my reasoning, the least you can do is explain yours if you still maintain its validity.

no, soz i forgot lol. i am pming the mod NOW.
also can we please quit it with the "MoS is not Mafia, he must be SK" stuff. or at least, if you do wish to say that, please back it up with something more than the fact that he bussed his buddy. In response to the same point being made by Lowell, the fact is, the behaviour by Acfan when MoS made the jokey claim was EXACTLY what he would do if they were scumbuddies. Its pretty reasonable to assume that if MoS found himself in a scumgroup with Lalm, Acfan and Kison, he probably admitted that he would bus them if necessary. Acfan had picked up alot of heat preceding that, and it looked very rehearsed from where i was sitting.

Lowell, what didn't you like about Twito's vote for Kison? Did you go back into day 1 to remember the RR/Twito interaction or are you just looking at the "lynch Kison already" posts that Twito made for months? It was the day 1 interaction that made me think that it wasn't likely that CTD was mafia.

I agree that MoS is not mafia, have not cleared of being the SK.

Spreaking of SKs:
BM, have you found out about the Night 1 protection?
SV's claim of blocking Theoper_COD last night could be interesting. (How likely is an alternating night kill for a SK?)

Well if TCS says there's an SK I'd do well to believe him.

I think we're looking at one more mafia and an SK.

vote CTD

. I having this nagging suspicion that he and kison were on the same team.

Why does TCS insisting that there's a SK convince you?

I completely disagree. Let's leave it at that.

[Battle Mage]

Mastermind of Sin - Probably not mafia based on interaction with ac1983fan. The setup would be a strange planned gambit ("At some point, I'll jokingly announce that I investigated you and found scum, you pretend to fall for it and we'll lynch you, but I'll look good." And then someone else happens to set up the joke for MoS. Improbable at best) On the other hand, it's unlikely that ac1983 would have responded to a joke made by his scum buddy in this manner.)

hmm the first point is valid, although i don't think anyone is suggesting it was planned to that degree. I believe i've already explained why the second point is simply untrue.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No, you've said that you think it is untrue. I disagree. This is the point I was making several posts ago. Not to mention, you specified it as "rehearsed," which would mean a planned gambit, which you just admitted was farfetched.

So, once again, I disagree, let's leave it at that.

the BUSSING itself seemed rehearsed, but the actual gambit seemed pretty spur of the moment.

oh and i got clarification from the Mod. My predecessor didnt make a choice on N1.

[Battle Mage]

hmm. ok.

Unvote

I could still go for an MoS lynch, but that doesnt look like its going to happen. Instead i'll go for my second choice:

Vote: Lowell

[Battle Mage]

huh? CTD you better not be serious. More claimed power roles is about THE WORST THING we could do at this time.

[Battle Mage]

i still don't understand what you are saying. I just cant fathom how outting more power roles, and giving the scum a clearer picture of who to kill will help us.

FoS: CTD

huh? CTD you better not be serious. More claimed power roles is about THE WORST THING we could do at this time.

I was actually quite serious. We have 10 players left, of which 4 have already claimed. There are at least 2 killing roles still out there (not counting the vig). If we assume for a moment that all 4 claimants are telling the truth, the scum should already have a pretty clear picture of who to kill and who not to kill.

On the other hand, and excuse me to be blunt, I do not trust you (BM) or The Central Scrutinizer (we can be lucky that the latter only hit vanillas so far) or Spectrumvoid to make the correct choice, and having all the roles in the open would diminish the chance of further accidents happening.

Also, by the looks of it, we're heading towards lynching and vigging two of the unclaimed, both of who will probably come out before the day is over. That would make 6 claimed and 4 unclaimed. I really don't see any reason not to go all the way here.

And lastly, Theopor_COD has been saying repeatedly that he doesn't believe Spectrumvoid's claim, and if he has a reason to believe this (as in he wasn't actually roleblocked), he should bring this information out in the open. Of course, for him to address this issue would immediately reveal whether he has a role or not, so he might chose not to. A massclaim would solve that problem.

[Battle Mage]

i still don't understand what you are saying. I just cant fathom how outting more power roles, and giving the scum a clearer picture of who to kill will help us.

FoS: CTD

Can you fathom how giving us a clearer picture of who to lynch and vig will help us?

I can't believe you've never been involved in a massclaim during your stay on this site.

of course i've been involved in a mass claim. Its generally a good idea when you are at LyLo. NOT NOW. This just sounds like scum trying to out any last power roles, because lets face it, any protection roles are gonna be screwed at this rate. A mass claim is only going to confuse things.
If you are a protown power role, and claim now because CTD told you, you are incredibly dumb, and i'm not protecting you tonight.

[Battle Mage]

You know I think SV may well be a role-blocker, but I'd hedge my bets she's a mafia one

The last time i saw somebody say this, the person in question was actually a vanilla townie trying to direct fire away from real power roles. lol

[Battle Mage]

i agree with TCS, though i appreciate that Theo's case is good. I don't think SV is a Mafia RB.

[Battle Mage]

SV. If you thought you were a backup doc, why would you think that you had a protection to send in? We have no dead docs.

Theo - I'm thinking "not a roleblocker at all" which is testable.

I'm thinking BMG or Lowell for today. Which puts me half in line with TCS. Speaking of which, why CTD? I think there's a pretty strong case against him being mafia, not bulletproof, but strong. You said that you thought MoS or I were the SK, so I know why I'm there - why not MoS?

I dont think BGM has done anything particularly scummy that stands out. A Lowell lynch on the other hand, i could definitely go with.

[Battle Mage]

Theo-can you elaborate why you feel BGM who hasn't really done alot, is a preferable lynch to Lowell?

[Battle Mage]

i disagree Theo. What kind of insane mod would instill

4

investigative roles into a game. I believe Kison and Lalm (both proven scum) claimed to possess the same role as somebody else. It doesn't take a genius to follow the pattern, and see that this claim is highly suspicious.

FoS: CTD

as a note however, i do to some extent agree with alot of what CTD says about tonights actions. However his claim is scummy imo.

[Battle Mage]

that wreaks of rolefishing. :p

[Battle Mage]

Can we just lynch Braze or at least apply some more pressure.

no... why are you letting the main suspects get off the hook?

[Battle Mage]

Main suspects?

Whom CTD . . I don't see CTD as a viable lynch today.

CTD and Lowell. and of course your comment begs the question- WHY?

(you may have already answered this, however this game is dragging so much, i forget where we are)

[Battle Mage]

rofl. where did i say that people who attacked Kison were scum?
also, shouldnt you be on holiday?

[Battle Mage]

ok cheers for the explanation, however all it really clarified is that Theo's logic makes no sense. lol

[Battle Mage]

I thought the sarcasm was obvious, perhaps my tuner's better than some?

Hey! I have the best damn tuna of all the mariners in my town!

[Battle Mage]

i'll be happy if i survive till page 100.

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I'm here. Still having trouble finding regular access.

I'd be in favor of a mass claim to get things moving.

you can go first then.

[Battle Mage]

I would suggest that no one respond to any claims until everyone has claimed.

why?

[Battle Mage]

Scum are more likely to slip up and have inconsistencies in their claims if we don't say anything about the current claims before them.

ok, that makes sense.
And i suspect that 'popcorn style' is a lot less fun than it sounds.
i think CTD should claim next.

[Battle Mage]

oh yeh! i remember now. lol

[Battle Mage]

we need a new list of claims up to this point. I can't even remember what MoS claimed. rofl.

[Battle Mage]

ok cheers Jalyn. In that case, i'd like MoS to claim next, followed by BGM, if thats ok?

[Battle Mage]

By the way, I'm just going to put this out there: I don't buy CTD's claim. At all. Not even a little.

actually, i have to agree. However, i'll say more when the others have claimed.

[Battle Mage]

wait for BGM. my tolerance with him is wearing thin at this point.

[Battle Mage]

Ideal order of claims:

BGM>Theo>Jalyn

[Battle Mage]

I'm a vanilla townie.

Nothing to verify my role, I dont' have a title or specific name. The only thing different from this than other vanilla PMs I've gotten is a word that starts with 'w'.

I will be gone from Aug 3rd-15th.

Mod

, replace me if needed, but I'd rather not.

I'm sorry but i don't understand this. I assume you are trying to subtly tell us somethign incredibly useful, but i don't understand it. Much as i liked MoS's plan of not discussing claims until they are all through, i don't want to forget.

Scot-in the meantime, you are advised to claim. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questionned, something you may later require in LyLo.

BM

[Battle Mage]

dang thats a shame...

[Battle Mage]

Confirm Vote: Lowell

[Battle Mage]

I'm happy with a CTD or Lowell lynch today. MoS can wait a little longer i am sure.

[Battle Mage]

this is going to sound dumb, but could you please explain to me how exactly the mechanics of an FBI Agent differ from those of a Cop?

[Battle Mage]

Scot is not the play. I'd rather we stuck with certain scum first.
Lynch Lowell today, and TCS can vig CTD. Then we lynch Scot tomoz, ok?

[Battle Mage]

Oh, that's right, Lowell.

unvote, vote: Lowell

well done TCS. Now MoS, you join the BW too, and we can get a nice scum-lynch today.

[Battle Mage]

Mod: Could you prod Lowell one last time, please?

Done with jumper cables.

shocking...

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Scotmany

with hindsight, Scotmany probably is the scummier of the two. The ease with which i managed to get a wagon on Lowell, makes me a bit uneasy.

[Battle Mage]

BM, what do you think of Lowell's last post? I could see how he might've made that mistake, but I would feel really dumb if he was scum and got away with a lame excuse like that.

*shrug* Like I've said, I'll hammer either one of them. It's hard to go wrong when you've found 2 scum.

well obviously, as an IC, its surprising that he made such a mistake, but there again he hasn't been prolificly active in this game, and its quite posible that he hasnt been paying attention. Either way Scotmany is a safe bet, and i recall his play earlier in the game stank of scum to me, especially his interaction with Lalm/Kison.
I find him being a Survivor quite hard to believe, based on that alone, but at least, even if the worst comes to the worst, and he IS a survivor, at least its better than potentially killing a townie.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, my play earlier in the game my play was of a townie. I have since been vigged, and then replaced back in cause patrick asked me so nicely. Are you saying that because you thought I was scum the first time around, that I am scum now? Or did you jsut totally forget that I was vigged under your discretion, which you were wrong at, and that I still have the same role?

lol fair point. you replaced back in straight after you died, hence i got muddled. Still, i'm happier to lynch you than Lowell today, simply based on your claim alone.

BM

[Battle Mage]

well i'm still alive. lol
As is my protection target.

BM

[Battle Mage]

well i'm still alive. lol
As is my protection target.

BM

Why did you decide against protecting an investigative role

again?

lol i've been protecting investigative roles every night up until now. Amazingly, i felt there were more valuable people to be protected. Significantly people who werent high on my suspect list.

[Battle Mage]

lol i had a slight inkling this might happen. If it matters, i protected TCS last night. It was a toss up between him and Rand, but i figured Rand probably wasnt as useful anymore. I thought a Vig who i believed was more valuable than a Tracker that i really didnt believe.
And its frigging obvious why i'm still alive-the scum know that i generally slip up as Doc where i dont know who to protect. A nice idea might have been for you to have TOLD ME who to bloody protect, after you realised that i might not get it right.
Its also pretty damn obvious WHO the mafia member who has chosen not to NK me is, because its the one individual here who had prior knowledge of my poor play as a power role. Unfortunately, its the one player who has come in defending me
As it is, i think we are in a good situation. I need to read through to confirm whether my main suspect is still my main suspect, or whether this mornings revelation changes anything.
But before you blame me for not protecting every kill on every night, you should note that Scot-SK didnt manage his NK every night. Now, this might be stupid, but i'd like to assume that it might just be because he was blocked. Maybe by a Doc.

I'll be back later to read through a bit and place my vote. In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions on who to protect tonight, please fire away, so at least you can take some damn responsibility, rather than blaming me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

if its all the same, id rather you didnt start a thread about me in MD. They tend to end up as flamefest. After the game, we can discuss via pm if you like.

in the meantime, i'd like to hear why TCS thinks Theo is a good play for today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

also, Seol, have you already claimed targets?
if not, i'd like to hear them. If so, it'd be nice if you could direct me to them. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

hold on a sec. Your plan has some very definable holes. One is your misconstruing of who can actually be deemed as CONFIRMED innocents.
As far as i'm concerned, MoS is not confirmed innocent. I'm sure he'll agree, that, from a practical point of view, he could still potentially be scum. You wonder why i have issues knowing who to protect, when i'm getting fed lies?

Now, i'd also like to tackle this issue of me being a suspect. Now, i'm no more confirmed than MoS is, but even so, i'd like to think you have more sense than to Vig a claimed doc. You have alot of power TCS, and i dont want you to use wrongly, so rather than let you do something stupid (as i have done) i'll tackle this with you now.

Do you seriously think i am scum?

And last but not least, why do you think Jalyn and Theo are our last two scum? Because they havent claimed? You have to be kidding me...
Why not do something really revelationary, and ask them to claim!?

fyi, i believe Seol now. Either he is clever scum who bothered to read the thread and corroborate his story with others, or he is genuinely an RB. His story coincides with that of confirmed town CTD at least, so i think that is some confirmation.

BM

Those I deem innocent

Rand Althor: Should be treated as confirmed criminologist.
The Central Scrutiniser: Confirmed Vig
Mastermind of Sin: I believe him to be pro-town, because of the "cop-investigation" play

Those I deem questionable

Battle Mage 2: claimed Doc, poor results of which I have pointed out
Seol (replacing spectrumvoid): claimed backup roleblocker, a claim I still don't believe

Those of no claiming and stuff

theopor_COD (replacing Kilroy8675 who replaced pevergreen)
Jalyn (replacing Blahgo)

I think that we need to confirm Seol tonight. Seol should roleblock Rand Althor, who should also receive Doc protection and investigate a corpse. If Rand is not blocked, then we know Seol is lying scum. If Rand is blocked, then Seol is confirmed. If any party refuses to participate in this plan, I suggest we lynch them. Because then we:

Lynch Theopor, vig Jalyn

And end up tomorrow with some combination of

Mos
TCS
Battle Mage
Rand
Confirmed/Unconfirmed Seol

If Seol is confirmed roleblocker, or something fuxxors with that plan, then we lynch BM. If Seol is not confirmed, we lynch him. Or you could no-lynch one day just to be extra fun.

But my plan is full of win. So we lynch Jalyn or Theopor, and I vig the other. If any of you has concrete evidence of either of their innocence, then we lynch the other and I vig BM.

[Battle Mage]

hold on a sec. Your plan has some very definable holes. One is your misconstruing of who can actually be deemed as CONFIRMED innocents.
As far as i'm concerned, MoS is not confirmed innocent. I'm sure he'll agree, that, from a practical point of view, he could still potentially be scum. You wonder why i have issues knowing who to protect, when i'm getting fed lies?

He didn't actually call MoS confirmed. I read it as he considers MoS to be "highly likely innocent", and if I'm reading him right, although there isn't any specific rolebased information to support that, I agree with him. Sometimes you end up in situations where you can't clear everyone, and then you have to make judgments. This seems like a reasonable judgment to me.

It is just that though-a Judgement. I certainly found it confusing, and i'm sure others might have done, to find somebody who's affiliation was NOT certain, to be placed in a group which distinctly implied that they were CERTAIN town. As this wasn't made clear, it is misrepresentation.

Now, i'd also like to tackle this issue of me being a suspect. Now, i'm no more confirmed than MoS is, but even so, i'd like to think you have more sense than to Vig a claimed doc.

Are you arguing you shouldn't be a suspect because you've claimed doc?

No lol. I'm pointing out that Vigging me is idiotic. If you really felt i was scum, you would be better off tackling the issue during the day, when somebody can still talk sense into you.

And last but not least, why do you think Jalyn and Theo are our last two scum? Because they havent claimed? You have to be kidding me...
Why not do something really revelationary, and ask them to claim!?

Firstly they have both claimed (vanilla townie), and secondly the point of this plan is not that TCS is sure they are the last two scum, but this allows us the best chance of covering all the likely possibiities.

As far as i'm concerned, thats not a reason atall. Its dependant on trusting all power role claims we have heard so far-which just sounds presumptious to me.

fyi, i believe Seol now. Either he is clever scum who bothered to read the thread and corroborate his story with others, or he is genuinely an RB. His story coincides with that of confirmed town CTD at least, so i think that is some confirmation.

That's true, I'm now at least confirmed as having targetted theopor with a non-lethal action, which is about as good a level of confirmation as we have on anyone at the moment.

[Battle Mage]

I'd like to hear the case on Theo/Jalyn. Ya know, one that is more than 'they claimed vanilla'. unless we have something concrete against them, i have an idea which just might work.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No, i dont think TCS is trying to manipulate the town. Not intentionally at least. I simply think he is forcing his opinions on others, which is not helpful. TCS is town-we can be sure on that. Rand is also confirmed town. You are most probably town, but if it comes to it, you could very easily be scum. All it would require is a bit of thinking, and the ability to read the thread before claiming. Not completely impossible at least. I know i am town.
That leaves 3 real possibilities for today. I am deeply, deeply concerned that everyone else seems to consider MoS to be above suspicion. I feel there is a strong case against him-something i hope to address later. But perhaps, more than that. Every gut feeling, every instinct in my body, is telling me that MoS is scum. I tend not to put too much stock in vibes like these, as they arent always right, but on the other hand, they have a higher success rate than my logical thinking does. Theo and Jalyn have been lumped together pretty well, but its hard to see us winning the game that easily. Until someone provides a case against them, neither gets my vote. Process of elimination is BS, when we all seem to have different opinions on who is a suspect, and who isn't.

Now before i suggest my plan, i'm going to work at writing my case on MoS. This is primarily because, if i suggested my plan now, i would end up with all of you laughing in my face, because apparently, suspicion of MoS is totally unreasonable.

In the meantime, i STILL want to talk directly with TCS. Its all very well and good discussing things with you, Seol, but in reality, its TCS who considers me scummy, and as TCS has the potential to kill me, its TCS who i need to persuade to think about this. Post 2428 infuriates me, simply because i dont think TCS is paying attention to what i am saying. I can easily see us lynching/Vigging Theo and Jalyn over today and tonight, and tomorrow, the game is still on. What happens next? I get lynched, and MoS-scum probably wins the game.

I need to reread, but from my perspective, there are some big decisions that need to be made today.
I'd like TCS to comment now please.

BM

hold on a sec. Your plan has some very definable holes. One is your misconstruing of who can actually be deemed as CONFIRMED innocents.
As far as i'm concerned, MoS is not confirmed innocent. I'm sure he'll agree, that, from a practical point of view, he could still potentially be scum. You wonder why i have issues knowing who to protect, when i'm getting fed lies?

He didn't actually call MoS confirmed. I read it as he considers MoS to be "highly likely innocent", and if I'm reading him right, although there isn't any specific rolebased information to support that, I agree with him. Sometimes you end up in situations where you can't clear everyone, and then you have to make judgments. This seems like a reasonable judgment to me.

It is just that though-a Judgement. I certainly found it confusing, and i'm sure others might have done, to find somebody who's affiliation was NOT certain, to be placed in a group which distinctly implied that they were CERTAIN town.

As this wasn't made clear, it is misrepresentation.

Do you think TCS is trying to manipulate the town?

Now, i'd also like to tackle this issue of me being a suspect. Now, i'm no more confirmed than MoS is, but even so, i'd like to think you have more sense than to Vig a claimed doc.

Are you arguing you shouldn't be a suspect because you've claimed doc?

No lol. I'm pointing out that Vigging me is idiotic. If you really felt i was scum, you would be better off tackling the issue during the day, when somebody can still talk sense into you.

We are tackling the issue during the day. We are discussing the plan. I'm happy to hear your arguments, but I don't think you appreciate what the thought process behind TCS' plan is. Either that, or you're scum flailing for a counterargument using arguments that aren't really appropriate for the situation because they're all you can think of (which, to be honest, is how I read the situation).

And last but not least, why do you think Jalyn and Theo are our last two scum? Because they havent claimed? You have to be kidding me...
Why not do something really revelationary, and ask them to claim!?

Firstly they have both claimed (vanilla townie), and secondly the point of this plan is not that TCS is sure they are the last two scum, but this allows us the best chance of covering all the likely possibiities.

As far as i'm concerned, thats not a reason atall. Its dependant on trusting all power role claims we have heard so far-which just sounds presumptious to me.

Well, we know the following for sure:

There is a vigilante, TCS has claimed vigilante and demonstrated the ability to kill, nobody has counterclaimed vigilante. That seems like a good reason to trust TCS.
Rand has claimed criminologist and a proven town tracker has tracked him targetting the dead person he claimed to target. That seems like a good reason to trust Rand.
I have claimed backup roleblocker and a proven town tracker has verified I targetted the person I claimed to with a demonstrated non-lethal ability. I think that is a good reason to trust me however you can make your own mind up about that.

MoS does not have the same level of confirmation, but I trust him vastly more than you, theopor or jalyn.

This plan is not based on strong cases against you, Jalyn or theopor. It's based on strong cases

for

everyone else. Under such circumstances, an elimination plan is solid. Of the three of you, it is sensible to kill you last.

However, I would be very interested in hearing your idea.

[Battle Mage]

No offence TCS, but if thats what cemented your view on MoS, i dont think your arguments should be too difficult to break down. lol

I can explain why i am still alive. Obviously using that as an argument against me in the first place, is WIFOM, but w/e. I'd rather not leave any doubt in anyone's mind. You consider the only case against me to be that i am still alive, which is easily disregarded as WIFOM, and the fact that my protection choices werent the best in the world. I mean, ask MoS. he knows better than anyone that i am crap as a cop when there are more than 1 good targets. Which btw, is something i want to raise in itself later.
Its not an excuse, but i do get confused. I feel, that whilst i may not have made, with hindsight, the BEST choice, i have made a decent choice. I need to remind myself of my choices, but i have protected Rand on several nights to this point. Confirmed protown players are common targets for scum. That is a fact. No scumbag likes to have 1 less person to get a mislynch on. Thats why i protected Rand. At the time, a confirmed protown power role, seemed like an obvious choice for NK. I'd like to say i was right, due to the lack of SK kill on those nights.
Last night i protected TCS. Rand's usefulness had decreased significantly with the SK gone, and i felt that a Vigilante was far more likely to be under threat. I would NEVER have protected CTD last night, because he was one of my suspects. If i remember rightly, you actually suggested Vigging him at one point. So i dont think you have the right to criticise my choice of not protecting him, and instead protecting a confirmed protown power role.

So to conclude, your suspicion of me is entirely based on WIFOM, and opinion. It is 100% fluff. I dont think i have done dreadfully. Obviously i made one bad decision, which cost us the cop, but if i could go back to last night and make the decision again, i'd still protect you.
If you disagree thats fine, but its certainly not a reason to NK me!

Its even ok that you think i'm a shit protown player. The 2 people i have the best record of reading correctly, are you and MoS. Obviously, trying to talk to you is going to be futile. However i'd like to think that the majority of the town will at least be open-minded regarding my views. If you aren't, we have absolutely NO chance. Obviously, even my plan wont work if TCS thinks so little of me.
So we have to lynch MoS to win. I'll work on my case as soon as i've finished reading through Shanba's mini game.

BM

That leaves 3 real possibilities for today. I am deeply, deeply concerned that everyone else seems to consider MoS to be above suspicion. I feel there is a strong case against him-something i hope to address later. But perhaps, more than that. Every gut feeling, every instinct in my body, is telling me that MoS is scum. I tend not to put too much stock in vibes like these, as they arent always right, but on the other hand, they have a higher success rate than my logical thinking does. Theo and Jalyn have been lumped together pretty well, but its hard to see us winning the game that easily. Until someone provides a case against them, neither gets my vote. Process of elimination is BS, when we all seem to have different opinions on who is a suspect, and who isn't.

I want to hear your case on MoS. Cause I want to hear precisely how you think that MoS claiming cop to get acfan to give up doesn't clear him. I don't care how bad of a scum acfan is, and he's the worst, you can't convince me that he thought a

scumbuddy

was really a cop. The only situation in which this would make any rational sense is if it was preplanned, or acfan is the dumbest person alive.

Process of elimination is how you win mafia games. We have three solid, confirmed innocents. We have one guy who I'm fairly certain is scum. And we have a claimed doctor who has failed to protect the obvious targets three times and who has magically lived two nights since claiming.

Now before i suggest my plan, i'm going to work at writing my case on MoS. This is primarily because, if i suggested my plan now, i would end up with all of you laughing in my face, because apparently, suspicion of MoS is totally unreasonable.

I think it is. But I am open to be convinced otherwise if you can be exceptionally persuasive.

In the meantime, i STILL want to talk directly with TCS. Its all very well and good discussing things with you, Seol, but in reality, its TCS who considers me scummy, and as TCS has the potential to kill me, its TCS who i need to persuade to think about this. Post 2428 infuriates me, simply because i dont think TCS is paying attention to what i am saying. I can easily see us lynching/Vigging Theo and Jalyn over today and tonight, and tomorrow, the game is still on. What happens next? I get lynched, and MoS-scum probably wins the game.

The fact that you think MoS is scum is, frankly, one of the best reasons to consider him pro-town. Your scumdar is almost never right. I'm sorry if that's offensive, but I've never seen you correctly call scum on anyone but me.

We need to reread, rank the four non-confirmed, and proceed to kill our top three. That's my plan. For the record, I presently think thusly, from most to least scummy:

Battle Mage
Jalyn
Theopor
MoS

[Battle Mage]

I want to hear your case on MoS. Cause I want to hear precisely how you think that MoS claiming cop to get acfan to give up doesn't clear him. I don't care how bad of a scum acfan is, and he's the worst, you can't convince me that he thought a

scumbuddy

was really a cop. The only situation in which this would make any rational sense is if it was preplanned, or acfan is the dumbest person alive.

Cite exactly where this happened. Because, reading through, I don't see MoS doing anything like that - but then, I could have misread.

BM, please don't quote the entire post at the bottom of your posts, it's really annoying to rread and doesn't add anything. If you're responding to specific points it's fine, but otherwise either just reply or delete the original.

there is absolutely no difference to quoting at the bottom of the post as there is to quoting at the top. I will do whichever feels good at the time.

[Battle Mage]

excellent. That works for me.

Unvote, Vote: Jalyn

Look, this plan is a 100% foolproof way to win.

Lynch Jalyn.

BM protects TCS
TCS shoots Theopor_COD
Seol roleblocks MoS or Theopor

If TCS dies, lynch BM.
If TCS does not die, lynch MoS.

If the game is STILL not over, TCS vigges BM.

We eliminate all nonconfirmed players, at no point being at lylo.

vote:Jalyn

[Battle Mage]

all we need now is for Rand to show up and drop the hammer.

[Battle Mage]

omfg. Now can we lynch MoS already!?

Vote: MoS

[Battle Mage]

why did you block Theo when you knew that TCS was going to Vig him?
Wouldnt it have been wiser to block MoS, who has claimed an ability which is no longer of value to us, and who is still under suspicion?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, i'm still confident that MoS is our final scumbag. But IF that isnt the case, i have a good plan for tonight.
Seol, you Roleblock me. TCS you Vig Seol.
That means, if Seol is scum, either me or TCS will survive and win.
If i was scum, I wouldnt be able to kill, and so the game would end as a tie.
However, as i'm not scum, this is irrelevant.

BM

[Battle Mage]

why did you block Theo when you knew that TCS was going to Vig him?
Wouldnt it have been wiser to block MoS, who has claimed an ability which is no longer of value to us, and who is still under suspicion?

In fact: Why didn't you know I didn't block MoS immediately? Why weren't you surprised there was a second kill?

Because you knew that the Mafia kill wasn't being prevented either way, because you were taking it.

unvote, vote: BM

rofl. ur dumb.

[Battle Mage]

The town goes for a massive speedlynch today, confident that their awesome plan will lead them to guaranteed victory. MoS isn't even given a chance to say anything as he's dragged to the noose in the middle of the town square. It doesn't take him long to die. The three of you check his belongings and his home, and to your immense relief, it turns out that MoS was indeed the last member of the mafia.

Mastermind of Sin (Mafia) has been lynched.

Town wins!

I hate to say i told you so...


But, F**k it- I TOLD J00 SO!

I hope, if nothing else, this game might increase TCS's opinion of me a little.

great game overall guys-well done.

[Battle Mage]

why did you block Theo when you knew that TCS was going to Vig him?
Wouldnt it have been wiser to block MoS, who has claimed an ability which is no longer of value to us, and who is still under suspicion?

In fact: Why didn't you know I didn't block MoS immediately? Why weren't you surprised there was a second kill?

Because you knew that the Mafia kill wasn't being prevented either way, because you were taking it.

unvote, vote: BM

rofl. ur dumb.

I was highly suspicious of you for - well, ages. And yes, I was wrong. To be honest I wasn't doing much more than going through the motions here.

I was surprised nobody called me on potentially being a scum roleblocker, though.

I was only a little wary of you at the end. I hadnt had time to go back and validate your story, and i was worried that the victory was just too easy. Turns out i was right all along with my instincts.

[Battle Mage]

I want to hear from TCS and MoS, and really everyone who didnt believe me about MoS being scum. lol

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: ZOMG-PAGE 100!!!!!

[Battle Mage]

Wow, that's incredible. acfan has got to be the worst scum ever. :\

Sorry I didn't believe you, BM, but, well, I have reason to.

Crazy that Rand made up that result. Wow.

Thats not the response i was hoping for. I was hoping for more of a 'now i realise that you aren't TOTALLY shit at scumhunting, i might pay more heed to you in the future'.