Mafia 10: Intrigue - Game over!

[mith]

It'll take me a while to get caught up, but I'm here. I blame mathcam for everything.

[mith]

I'm hesitant to vote for anyone, because I'm unsure what will happen with the whole disease thing. I would be voting for Electra though, I've been pushing for her lynching for a couple days now.

I say no to claiming before the note is revealed, and I'm not sure about whether you should reveal it now or not. I'll think about it.

[mith]

FOS: Tigris

If you believe she's neutral, you shouldn't be voting for her.

[mith]

I wonder if Electra is responsible for that attempted killing.

And regarding the Green Crayon quote, I'm pretty sure he meant it the way he said it, though the other way would be equally interesting. What we are looking for is Mafia scum trying to get a quick lynch or prevent Electra's lynch (depending on her exact role), hoping that we will forget their pre-crash stance, since it's been so long.

[mith]

What are we waiting on? I know everyone is still trying to catch up, but I'd just as soon get this lynching over with and see what new information we have come morning.

[mith]

Vote: God

He's a sucky doctor if he is one. Why not try to heal me?

[mith]

I am, once again, wary of voting, but I have circumstancial evidence he isn't a doctor. I have the option of trying to find the cure for the disease thingy (I would guess jeep has the same option), and I decided that I would turn to God. (haha.)

[mith]

Erm, I don't think I ever actually voted for God, did I? Maybe I'm delirious, though.

[mith]

mathcam: Unless cs missed my vote, one of the others voted for you, and one voted for himself. I voted for myself.

I have totally lost any sense of what is going on in this game. I will try to do some reading tomorrow (no promises), and whether I read anything or not, I'll post some random ranting this weekend.

[mith]

Do you somehow know that everyone voted? CS said he was missing a bunch of vote choices. It's probably worth it to have us all reveal who we voted for, just to see if there were any shennanigans in the voting booths.

There are only four of us. You voted for yourself, I voted for myself. If no one else voted, then we would've tied, and you would not have been elected. Therefore, one of the others voted for you. If the last hadn't voted, I'd have been vice. Therefore, the other one voted for himself (or the third, but that's unlikely).

The other possibilities are that CS screwed up, or someone (probably you) messed with the voting. So, yes, who did you two vote for? (Gaspode and Fishbulb)

[mith]

But yes, I probably messed with the voting. I'm also responsible for all deaths so far in the game. And Kennedy, too.

Er, no need to get defensive. I was only listing the possibilities, and who else would mess with the votes? I am sure Gaspode and Fishbulb will clear things up.

And Werescum, I am wary of overly powerful mason groups as well. However, the reason they wouldn't force every night is that they could make the town lose some potentially powerful abilities.

That isn't to say you shouldn't check them. I will probably vote for Gaspode (if he doesn't already have half) soonish, if no other checking suspect comes up.

[mith]

Blah blah blah, I didn't see it, I was here for about two seconds.

I'm just not the least bit convinced that mathcam is innocent, and I am confirmed, so I was curious about the voting, that's all.

[mith]

I don't believe for a second that both of the following are true:

The aliens are all innocent.
They can only recruit innocents.

Recruiting Masons are just too powerful. I find it very likely that Gaspode is scum, and the recruits are unaware of this, and I find it very likely that Gaspode is innocent, but can recruits aren't sure to be.

That's nothing, really, but it's eating at me that everyone but a handful are just sorta assuming that they are innocent. I'll sleep on it and see how I feel tomorrow.

[mith]

I was forcefully rectuited and I haven't been told either way except by Gaspode that I'm/we're innocent. Therefore, IMO, Gaspode is innocent

So if you had been told he was innocent, you wouldn't be so sure? This seems very very naive.

It wouldn't make sense for him to lie to me.

Maybe he has some role-based reason to. Or maybe it's *just him* that is evil, like I already suggested. It would make plenty of sense for the aliens to have their own agenda.

Can you verify that he is the only alien left, DS? As with Electra, I am leaning toward offing the unknown rather than risking it, particularly since he can recruit.

[mith]

Porro: I am defining too powerful relative to my own role, and the revealed roles. But even with balancing roles, the game would tend to come down to luck in recruiting and killing rather than good lynches.

However, note that the original statement depended on DS being sure of Gaspode's innocence, as he seemed to be. That is apparently not the case. The recruits being unsure of the alien(s) throws a wrench into the power of the group.

Anyway, I think Gaspode is at the very least on his own side (if not plain evil), for the following reasons:

1. If I were to have aliens in a mafia game, they would probably not be on the town's side.
2. Gaspode was not the one that revealed himself. DS did, and according to Gaspode this was against his will.
3. Hunch

I can think of plenty of neutralish roles for aliens (for example, they have to recruit X players by the end of the game to run experiments or something), but again, as with Electra, I have no interest in letting "neutrals" run around that could turn out to be scum

[mith]

To clear up yet another misconception about my role: I am the one and only alien. I started out alone and have been allowed to recruit once per night by either of the two methods I previously described. Whoever mentioned that we didn't know if I was the "last" alien obviously didn't realize that I am the only one. I am not a member of a recruiting mason group; I am sort of like a creator of a mason group.

Starting at the end: Sure, but it amounts to as much. But since Werebear brought up Discworld, I'll remind you all that I was the head of the Assassin's guild in that game, and so I agree 100% with Werebear on this issue.

Plus, we only have your word that you are the only alien. There could be another, though I think it's somewhat unlikely that DS wouldn't know that.

[mith]

Alrighty then.

Vote: Gaspode

Hopefully this night won't take a month.

[mith]

Alright, so Werebear, remind us once again who you have checked? DS should also be innocent, by Alien masonness. That'll give us a starting point.

[mith]

Also worrying, we don't appear to have a single actual Mafia member yet.

[mith]

I think I had a theory earlier in the game that most of the good guys in this game has some sort of illegal, questionable, or weird thing. Unfortunately, IIRC, Angel Fish was the only one jailed, and she's still alive (in the form of Someone), so we don't know for sure yet, I guess.

[mith]

Odd, for some reason I thought OJ was a serial killer.

And Electra doesn't count, she wasn't a full Mafia member.

[mith]

Wait, did you check God, or God II? God was the Terrorist.

[mith]

Oh yeah. For some reason I thought Werescum was saying he got God innocent earlier.

I really need to not be sick any more.

Anyone want to dig through the papers while they're doing Porro's bidding and remind me what was said about mathcam/Dourgrim? I've thought all along that it would make sense for the cops to be scummy, but it's been so long since I thought it last that I don't remember why or why not.

[mith]

Vote: Leonidas

, then

[mith]

I've been "investigated" and we know I don't have an illegal type role

That's probably irrelevant though, as that seems to have no correlation with scumminess.

[mith]

Unvote: Leo

At school, more later.

[mith]

Vote: Darkblade

Reasoning:

Werebear has checked Corsato, Porro, myself, and Leonidas
mathcam and God are semi-confirming each other, and have arrested Someone and Fishbulb at some point, who can confirm that they at least do the arresting. I still have a hunch that one or both are scummy scum, but that can wait for now (one or both of mathcam and God).
mathcam and God seem to believe Someone and Fishbulb, for now.
jeep and d8P are confirming each other, though they also are pretty high on my suspect list.
Dragon Slayer is basically confirmed by the revealed alien role.

That's everyone but Darkblade, so he's got my vote. Unless someone reminds me of something I'm forgetting, and then I'll stop playing it safe and vote for one of mathcam, God, jeep, and d8P.

[mith]

Unvote: Darkblade

Forgot about the Electra note.

Doesn't prove he's innocent, but it bumps him up on my list of likely good guys.

Back to my list on the last page, and assuming for the moment that Werescum and those he has checked are innocent, along with DS and Darkblade (Alien Mason and Note getter respectively), that leaves the following "groups":

jeep and d8P - father/child thing
mathcam and God - the cops
Someone and Fishbulb - illegal activities

I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction that one of each pair is scummy scum scum. We've got one dead scum, and 4 plus Electra seems reasonable given the rest of the roles we've seen. And since d8P thinks Polarboy has cleared jeep, then that leaves d8P out of that pair ('sides, if both of any of those pairs is likely to be scum, jeep as godfather and d8P as mafia child works pretty well).

(Don't take all of that too seriously, I'm just guessing at this point. And I hate to vote for someone right after they put all the papers together, but, hey, if I were scum trying to prove my innocence, maybe I'd do that. ~shrug~)

[mith]

Why on earth are we voting DS? Page 16, Gaspode death scene. "recruiting mason group (INNOCENT)". That's enough for me until we run out of other suspects.

Oh, and

Vote: d8P

, as I meant to do in my last post.

[mith]

Maybe I am reading it differently from you, but I am surprised you leapt to the conclusion that I am misquoting rather than considering my point of view.

The way I read it was that the Alien himself was unknown, starting as innocent, and recruited, and that the mason group itself was innocent. It is a reasonable possibility even under this theory that when the change took place, future recruits would be evil as well, but we know DS was an early recruit, and the quote, to me, seems to clearly indicate that the

Alien

could change, not the whole group.

Maybe my interpretation of that is wrong, but your statement that the death scene clearly stated that

Dragon Slayer's

motives changed is false. We only know that the alien could change, and I am giving DS the benefit of the doubt for now.

That said, DS's defense is as meaningless as Gaspode's ever was. DS, we can not possibly be aware of what you have and have not been told. Telling us that you haven't be told anything is not going to convince anyone. You could be lying.

[mith]

Incidentally, due to a bug in my IE, I am currently unable to copy/paste, which is why I am not doing my usual routine of quoting you and the arguing, and why I didn't quote the whole thing in the first place.

[mith]

What good will that do us?

Claim forcing = teh suck.

Sticking with d8P, I see nothing better at the moment.

[mith]

We may not have any "extremely" suspicious people, but we're not talking about going after someone random, we're talking about going after someone we have an innocent result from. That is *not* to say he is a sure innocent, but why on earth are we bandwagoning players just to force claims if we don't even think they are scum?

I reiterate my usual rant, in a sentence: Vote for people you think are scum.

And someone fix my stupid computer, please.

[mith]

I already gave you an alternative. Whether you consider it better or not, I can't really do that much about.

~throws computer across room. after pressing submit, of course~

[mith]

Can't quote, still having problems.

Anyway, in reference to the paragraph starting "OMGUS"

Way to completely miss the point of my vote. *You* are not confirmed innocent at all. jeep may be confirmed (and I am still waiting for someone to remind me *why* he is, exactly), and you may be confirmed in a group with him, but from what we have so far on this game (read: Gaspode's role), there is no real evidence that *you* are innocent. And I'm not convinced jeep is innocent even if he's been found so, as his role would be perfect for a Godfather.

Porro has been checked by the only proven reliable source we have so far (he found God out, he got the unknown result on Gaspode, and he found me innocent, so he's got solid results as far as I am concerned). I am *not* interested in a bandwagon that is clearly just for role claim purposes and not for any actual suspicion (note: I didn't say that we were all sure he's innocent, I said they don't actually suspect him of being scum, they're just trying to get lucky). Everyone who has ever played a game with me should know how I feel about bandwagoning solely for role claims, and in this game in particular I *really* don't think it will do us any good at all, and possibly quite a bit of harm.

So, no, the situations are not at all comparable. I have a hunch that you are scum scum scum, they have expressed nothing similar about Porro, they just want role claims.

And I will tell you right now, I am *not* going to claim my role unless there's actually someone that has something on me. I've been found innocent, and I'm not giving the Mafia any information on me. If that gets me killed, so be it.

[mith]

I'm perfectly aware of how it sounds. And I believe a similar comment was made way back on Day... what, 3? 4? Who knows. When Werebear was going to investigate me.

~shrug~ I'm confident I won't be lynch, so I'm playing a bit looser than normal. And I do take this role claim fetish nonsense seriously.

[mith]

And yes, you reminded us that Polarboy found jeep innocent. Could you remind us *where*? With my computer acting up, I can't wade through 4 million (or 80) pages of game looking for it.

[mith]

Travelling tomorrow, so I won't be on at all til Sundayish, and probably not a whole lot for another week after that.

[mith]

I don't even think I read that when it was posted, no wonder I couldn't remember it.

Well, that makes jeep higher up on the innocent list, but no more so than anyone Werescum has checked (read: Porro), and I still think jeep has a great Godfather role, so it is again not very much of a proof of your innocence. Basically, someone who has gotten an innocent result (which we all seem to agree proves not a whole lot in this game) backs up your role claim; but just telling us you have a role doesn't mean he is sure about you. Look at the cops, they don't seem so sure of each other. And I myself am not sure even of Werescum, he's just been the best source of info so far. Perhaps if jeep were more adamant that you are innocent, I would see things differently, but I haven't seen him be very vocal against me.

Vote stands for now. And I'm not sure how often I'll be on, though the game is going slowly enough that I'm not too worried about missing something important.

[mith]

Unvote: d8P

, since jeep has spoken up. He'd probably said something before, but I don't remember it.

A year? Eesh.

I'll think on it, probably be on a bit tomorrow.

[mith]

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the God-wagon. mathcam has seemed a bit odd in the whole thing.

But if he turns out innocent, Werescum can always check mathcam tomorrow. And we'll probably find *something* out from any deaths we have tonight. So, in the interest of moving on with the game,

Vote: God

.

[mith]

I could've sworn we checked Leo yesterday.

I'll vote Corsato possibly, if Leo checks out, and Someone gives us a bit more.

[mith]

So we have two things saying Corsato has a suspect role, but nothing clear? Sounds reasonable, considering the game.

I'll trust Werescum for now, and let you guys discuss whatever needs to be discussed. I'm not going to vote Corsato until someone actually reveals something though (whether he reveals his role first, or whatever, I don't care, you're just all being annoying with this "I have info that I can't reveal" thing).

[mith]

Just a quick note to say that Leonidas's claim looks like something he might have prepared for Movie Title Mafia (in which he was evil, btw). I'm happy with my vote for now.

[mith]

Oh, and how 'bout we have Darkblade reveal his note, then Corsato claim, then Someone give his info?

[mith]

My thought was that even if you made up a role claim, Someone could catch you with his info. But if you want to claim before the note, then claim. I was just under the impression you were refusing to do so until information was actually given.

[mith]

I'm back. y0.

[mith]

Sounds good to me.

Vote: Corsato

[mith]

Porro, I agree that Someone missed a chance to close the deal.

I think that you're all a bit insane if you can't see how that note might describe an FBI agent. It might also describe a Mafia member, a Cop, a Vigilante, etc.

However, that still leaves that it would've been stupid for the Mafia to try to kill mathcam last night, and until Werebear starts actually talking instead of this "I can't say" nonsense, Corsato is by far the best we have. Even if he is innocent, we've basically confirmed Someone's role (but note, *not* his alignment; Mafia could have a role like this just as easily as anyone), DS's role (even though apparently I'm the only one that sees that), and we still have the Werebear/Leo thing to resolve. That's a lot of info.

[mith]

Yes, and now he says you're scum. You're next on my list, just for that post.

But for now, goodnight everyone.

[mith]

I think Werebear's death should clear me from everything but Godfatherness. My role should be obvious anyway, if you reread the right things.

I'm going to suggest once again that jeep might be Godfather, and d8P his mafia buddy. Werebear did find d8P innocent yesterday, but we don't know what he found last night; all we know is d8P is not something weird. 'sides, they're both "certain" of my guilt, and it should be obvious I'm not guilty (I'll spell it out later for you, but I want to see what they say first).

I'l have to go back through and see who else I thought was innocent. The only one I am fairly sure of is DS.

[mith]

Well, that made it easy. No reasoning, no "gee, I wonder what mith meant by "my role should be obvious, maybe I'll go check"". Just hoping for a quick lynch I suppose.

Why, exactly, are you so sure I am the godfather? You have *not* revealed that.

Here are a list of reasons that were mentioned yesterday for thinking I am Mafia (not Godfather), which is clearly not true (based on Werescum's role):

Maybe his mafia family have the ability to kidnap him to make him seem less guilty.

Speculation. Interesting speculation, perhaps, but the same could have been said earlier on about d8P (before the BoK revealed), and no one would have taken it particularly seriously, so it surprises me to see *him* say this (except that I think he's scum, so it doesn't really surprise me). That, and a quick check on a couple of things would reveal my role and why I was unable to post yesterday.

OK, so here's my theory: There is a scum in every section of the town.

Again, interesting speculation. There's really no way to confirm this theory yet, but if cs *did* put it in as a clue, I find it annoying on his part that he doesn't keep track of where the dead players were living.

mith is also on the top of my list and I think he's hiding somehow to make himself unlynchable.

No real reason, just speculation like d8P.

Actually, I think mith may be one of the last scum if not the last. Sucks that we can't vote him. Perhaps he's merely hiding from us??

Again, no reason...

I konw d8p isn't and if you are then it was a BIG no-no for you to vote. I'm certain of mith's guilt.

Which makes me doubly certain of yours. I know I am innocent.

And that's really it. Nothing particularly substantial, certainly not something that should be described as "all the reasons from yesterday.

So, let's hear it. On what are you basing this "certainty"? And be careful, I *can* prove what my role is, quite easily. You've got my vote unless you come up with a spectacular reason for your behavior.

[mith]

And if someone ends day too fast like yesterday, I am going to be extremely annoyed (that's why I'm not voting yet).

[mith]

Let me understand this: You claim you are a vigilante that, when you use your ability, you become immune to being lynched the next day? Seems pretty abusive, what's the catch? THAT actually sounds godfather like. You get an extra kill and immunity.

Oh, please. At least d8P is being reasonable about this. Do you despute that I am the monster? Do you dispute that it is extremely unlikely the Godfather would be able to turn into a monster? (An extra kill is one thing, but a monster?)

The catch, of course, is that I'm not just "immune to being lynched" (way to make that sound way more powerful than it actually is). I can't post or vote, either, which means while I go and kill Leonidas (which would be a bloody stupid thing for the godfather to do at this stage in the game, when there was some doubt about Werebear's results at the time, no response to that, eh?), I get all this "er, mith is suspicious, yeah!" nonsense with no backing that I have to deal with when I get back. Plus I have to kill someone to get that fantastically powerful ( ) ability, so it's not something I could just throw around anyway.

Come on jeep, you can do better than this. Think before you post, please. At least d8P is putting up something reasonable.

Speaking of...

I have to warn you that I *know* Jeep is innocent. It said so in my role PM. I checked the archive, which is haunted by Fletcher, by the way.

That's great! Except, of course *we only have your word for it*. *My* theory, which I've been going on for several days now, is that you two are scum together (the whole family thing, plus the way you're acting, plus the lack of better suspects). So you "knowing" he's innocent really doesn't have any bearing on that.

How has the mod cleared either jeep or Porro? Their roles have been mentioned in newspapers, but neither is incompatible with being GF. Rich family man certainly isn't, and there have certainly been evil mayors.

DS is at least confirmed innocent from one of those same newspapers (the Alien was unknown, but the group was listed INNOCENT).

Basically, my suggestion boils down to lynching one of jeep/d8P now, and I'll off the other if they're scum. If they aren't, I can still off Fishbulb or Porro (the most likely scum if neither jeep or d8P is), and we should be ok (I'll have to think about that endgame though, it may get messy). I'm confident about jeep and d8P though, for the variety of reasons mentioned already.

[mith]

that would be almost as bad of a play as two mafia to come out as masons on Day 1.

Ah yes, that. I had forgotten that (you have to remember, this was over a year ago, and *I wasn't even playing then*.

Comments:

1. Whatever day it was on, it was 600+ posts in.

2. Originally, you only revealed yourself, which would be a brilliant position for a GF if it stuck. You only revealed d8P when pressed by Sketch.

3. Even revealing d8P, which is more stupid? Masons coming out, giving the Mafia free shots, only because you think maybe there might only be one mason group and so you can get sketch lynched? Or Mafia coming out as Masons, the "lead" one being the Godfather, who will (we assume) come up innocent if checked, who won't be killed by the Mafia because they are Mafia, won't be lynched because the town are sheep, and any potential SKs are unlikely to waste their time with them either (their main targets are generally Mafia and people who might be able to catch them). Plus if you come out early enough, you get to beat people over the head with how you're innocent so that everyone starts believing it, particularly when they can't easily check back on page 32 for the facts.

4. Please, don't pretend that Mafia coming out as Masons, even early, is nearly as stupid as a Godfather killing a fellow mafia for no good reason.

Gotta go eat now, can't remember if there was anything else. The point is that all we have to rely on is your word, and so the simplest option, without better suspects (now that I have dried up as one) is to lynch one of you so we can be sure about the other.

[mith]

And all we have to rely on is YOUR word, too.

No, as I have already pointed out several times, and you keep ignoring, Werebear has confirmed me innocent. He has not confirmed either of you.

Post 7? Huh? mathcam made post 7. Unless you mean the actual 7th post (rather than the one numbered 7), which is:

Also, the "COUNIL" should probably be Council... doesn't this town have a newspaper editor?

Hmm... could the missing letters mean anything? We'll see if they get corrected or not.

BAH at me previewing my post and not getting in first...

I don't see any hints in there about being a father/daughter mason group.

Or maybe you mean 8, which is:

There was a little more, but I didn't catch it. I assume this was a newbie mistake. Everyone makes mistakes when they are young. Under my guidance, you will grow to be a strong and goo mafia hunter.

Which I could see as a hint, but I could also see as Mafia being clever together, and either way I won't put much on it because it is terribly vague. I would say something similar to anyone.

"11" (actually 12, or the 13th post; you're adding instead of subtracting, or something) I missed the first time around, I apologize:

I don't mean to sound like a father scolding his daughter, but... you gotta learn somehow.

Again, though, Mafia, family, it all works together. I could see a mod throwing something in like that. 'sides, you have a baby girl, I could see you throwing something out there like that and then coming up with the mason thing later.

Anyway, that's all for now, I'll let the rest of you decide whether we should lynch jeep or someone else. My main suspect if jeep and d8P aren't scum would have to be Fishbulb, followed closely by Porro.

[mith]

And, don't forget you two, this is, as you mentioned, Intrigue Mafia, don't take "jeep is innocent" or "d8P is innocent" for granted. I've been lied to by the mod before (the infamous Mafia 24).

[mith]

Actually, my theory on mith is that he is a SK who would appear innocent if he doesn't kill the night before (because then, he'd just look like a normal scientist). In addition, I doubt a vig would kill night two. That doesn't seem like something mtih'd do.

I guess that's an ok theory, except that:

1. There have already been at least two SKs.
2. If I were an SK, wouldn't I *have* to kill more than twice?
3. Even if I got to hold off on the killings, why, if that were the case, would I reveal myself so early for no reason? (To answer as a vig: two reasons. I had a theory that didn't pan out, and that *is* something I do, I do something crazy on day *1* half the time. And, to help myself in exactly the situation, I was able to prove my role (at least so far as proving I am not Mafia).
4. I don't think Werescum would get INNOCENT unless normal-scientist-mith's *intentions* were good; and, if my intentions as a mad scientist are good, but I'm a SK by night, again, why wouldn't I have been forced to kill more?

[mith]

the=this, and add a ) on the end of 3.

[mith]

3.Simple. Night one, you wouldn't know how many kills there could be and whether you could get lost in a sea of kills. Or you had some plan like my puny litttle college mind can't conceive, I don't know But honestly, a vig killing on Night Two? From what I remember from your style, you post hunches and go after people during the day with your theories. Killing Night Two as a vig just doesn't seem to compute with the mith I remember.

Why are you talking about night one and two? I didn't kill til... what, night 3? 4? I don't even remember. I wasn't *playing* until day 3. And of course a monster is not going to get lost in a sea of kills on night 3.

As for my style of play, *no* one has much of an idea what I will and won't do, not even me, so I don't really take that bit seriously. But, for reference, I've come out as a cop on day one (knowing perfectly well that there was likely insanity out there), when I have guilty results, just because I know it will get a reaction. Sometimes things can be deduced just by what people say to a cop coming out (or a monster mauling). When I have an ability, I try to make as much use of it as possible. As for what I would do as a vig... well, this game is really it. I can't remember being a normal vig (one shot, which is different, because you have to save that until you're sure); I'm sure I have at some point, but it wasn't particularly memorable. Probably got shot the first night or something. I had a hunch on mikegoo (it's been a while, but I believe it had something to do with him disappearing earlier, but I don't really remember what, exactly). And, as you pointed out but understated, *I play hunches*.

4.Cops aren't always right. See GF.

I never said Cops were infallible. But you're telling me that I could be the only SK that came up innocent, I can hide, I can play a plausible vigilante alibi, and how is this at all fair to the other SKs? More reasonable that I'm a vig (and no, not a very powerful one, I can't kill every night, and when I do it takes away *my* best part of the game, posting crap) that looks a bit suspicious.

So I still think my theory is plausible.

Like I said, it's a reasonable theory, I just don't think it's anywhere near the best one.

More coming, in a separate post.

[mith]

Umm, alright. Any reason you think that? Are you trying to bully me into voting jeep?

Not at all. My reasoning is simple. I am, other than possible SKness (and even if I *were* an SK, it wouldn't be the correct play to lynch me today with one or two Mafia left), am essentially confirmed innocent, so I don't think the vote is going to come between me and anyone. I have given a strong case for a jeep/d8P mafia pair (and they have proof of their innocence, by all means, let them show it, so I can move on to someone else), so that's where jeep sticks. Darkblade gets notes, and so doesn't fit as GF (though he could still be scum), DS was, until DB's latest note, basically confirmed in my head, and Porro is the Mayor (and so probably wins in a vote between you two for now). That just leaves you and jeep, really, in my mind. Unless we catch DS in a lie here, I will almost certainly be voting for one of you before the day is over.

But what about the other way around? You are claiming to be able to kill, why not take him out earlier?

I'm not claiming to be able to, I've *shown* I'm able to. But to answer your question, while I've had vague suspicions about jeep and d8P for a while, it didn't become anything solid until recently, and I used my most recent kill on Leonidas, who we had a reliable (in my mind, if no one else's) Mafia result on. Plus, I have jeep pegged as GF, so I'm not confident I can kill him anyway. *Plus*, I think I'll get him lynched eventually if he doesn't come out with some sort of defense, and I'd rather give him the chance to do so than just take things into my own hands, at this stage in the game.

Anyway, let's hear it DS. Here's the question again:

But, for now, lets talk about DS, shall we? I got a note on him last night. DS, answer me this. What exactly happened to you when Gaspode died?

[mith]

Bah, posted between me. But you still didn't answer the question.

[mith]

Actually, it is *your* error.

Before I get to my theory I would like to point out a mith error (lie?)
Deep Red wrote:
Oh, and one other thing. Who did Werebear check yesterday? d8P. Had he lived through the night, he may have gotten that MAFIA result.

(The reason I am voting jeep, however, is that a. I think both are scum, and b. godfathers sometimes have night kill immunity)


Werebear gave us his result in post 698. d8p was innocent.

As stated by the mod in Werebear's death scene, Werebear got INNOCENT for Mafia when he checked them in the day, but then received MAFIA that night. Remember the odd thing with Leonidas? That's what I was refering to. I know Werebear got d8P innocent during the day, but we don't know that he wouldn't have gotten mafia that night, and therefore Werebear's check does not clear d8P, unlike myself. We know I'm not scum, or Werebear would've said something about getting MAFIA at night after he checked me. My point was that Werebear might've *finally* gotten killed because after Leo's death, the Mafia were sure Werebear got a result for them, and d8P was the last one he checked, so that might be *why* he was killed. It might *also* be a frame, which is why I'm not relying on it as my only evidence.

OK I really would not be suprised if mith was a GF, as he has been known to sacrifice his minions to the town previously, and without warning, discussion, or agreement.

Er, I vaguely remember the game you are talking about, but there was a very good reason I did it. Reference, please? Regardless, the difference is that in that case, I was *voting* for you (which is *common* mafia behavior), whereas in this case, I killed Leonidas at night, when he was far from the lead suspect.

As for the rest of your post, that's almost exactly what Fishbulb was asking me, and I have responded. I obviously can't prove 100% that I am not an SK, you'll just have to look at the 100 pages of evidence and decide for yourself.

As for why I didn't kill last night, think about it for a minute and you might guess. I'd rather not reveal all the details of my role, or it may hurt its usefulness against the Mafia. Normally, if I were you, I'd just bug me about it anyway, but I have answered all questions about my role so far, while jeep, DS, etc. don't answer *anything* about themselves. So, I'm going to hush for a bit.

[mith]

Why didn't we lynch him, then? Hell, Werebear wasn't even sure, that second time he got him innocent.

[mith]

Oh, also, for one last bit of proof I'm innocent, that I just found looking at that day we *didn't* lynch Leo:

Corsato, FBI Agent (INNOCENT), has been lynched. The FBI Agent could investigate once a night, and would receive the unquestionably correct alignment of their target. He also could survive one night kill.

Corsato checked me night 6, and found me innocent.

[mith]

I *could* kill one of them, sure. I'll have to go over the endgame scenarios in my head again, I'll get back to you.

I haven't told you the name of my character, but it's nothing interesting. Just "Mad Scientist".

[mith]

I think jeep is just trying desperately to get another godfather suspect out there.

I'm not sure what to make of the note, but I'm more interested in catching scum scum scum than going after someone who *might* be up to something for an unknown-alignment group. I'm still sticking with the mod saying the group was innocent until I have something more substantial.

vote: jeep

. I've waited long enough. He has offered nothing other than "waah, we're proven father/daughter", and I just don't trust him. Even though he did just unvote me, finally.

[mith]

I agree that DS is acting odd. However, here's how I look at our "priorities":

If we lynch DS now, and fail to lynch the Mafia in time, we lose.
If we lynch the Mafia now, we *might* run out of time on lynching/killing DS (but, particularly as he seems to be unable to kill, if I am still alive, I can just kill him myself, if necessary), or he might be innocent.

I say we leave DS for tomorrow, at least. It's in the Mafia's best interest to kill him, anyway, as much as anyone else.

[mith]

Or a vest, at this point. Unless he has recruited someone else.

[mith]

We only have your word on that. *I* believe you for now, but I'm just saying it's a possibility.

I'm still waiting for jeep to post some sort of defense. He seems to be ignoring the fact that he has two votes, and Porro ready to lynch him if nothing else happens.

[mith]

Dang it. I almost talked myself out of it too.

5 and an Assassin seemed too many, though. I knew Porro was innocent (or he would've taken out DS); I knew DS was innocent. I did call Fishbulb as most suspicious after jeep/d8P, and I should've paid more attention to Darkblade being completely worthless with his notes.

Ah well, we gave it a good run there at the end.

...and so, once again, mith is messed up by a godfather mason. I think we all know what that means.

Bah bah suck scum die die bow die bah scum...

[mith]

Oh, jeep, you should've expressed some small bit of doubt that d8P *might* be scum. I probably would've gone after him instead, and you would've won even sooner.

[mith]

So, basically, I had no chance anyway. Screw all ya'll.

If only the aliens could've killed, I could've pulled one of my "get everyone shooting at you and then duck" tricks.

[mith]

Think you have that backward, cs. 3 Mafia, 2 Townies.

And I went and killed the other one. That's what he gets for sticking with jeepscum.

Ah well, at least I nabbed two of them. With Werescum's help, of course. And I claim Electra.

[mith]

Wasn't much of a gambit if I didn't even remember you had done it.

[mith]

Something to do with how many possible recruits there were for the aliens?