NY 193 : Werewolf Mania (GAME OVER- TOWN WIN)

[Aj The Epic]

Hello. Game summary? Will start reading but 90 pages.... ehhhhhhhh

[Aj The Epic]

Reading yesterday you had PK and blackstar as scum (Was reading last lynch to see why reads didn't match votes until I noticed seer claim). Why do I have an opinion change here when I note that blackstar is actually voting you RIGHT BEFORE a hammer? Knowing you, that would be something you'd pursue if you lived into this day, especially after a claim for guilty on another player.

[Aj The Epic]

Has Almost50 done anything to justify why he's still alive?

[Aj The Epic]

So no one feels like helping me out at all. Thanks.

So we have SRMP claiming tracker, Almost claiming some role and that's why he hasn't been lynched and no explanation on why RCB is on SRMP over blackstar.

[Aj The Epic]

So no one feels like helping me out at all. Thanks.

So we have SRMP claiming tracker, Almost claiming some role and that's why he hasn't been lynched and no explanation on why RCB is on SRMP over blackstar.

because SRMP is scum.

so are you I think.

The unfortunate case is that you are wrong.

What I want explained is why you have called blackstar scum, seen a bad vote from him (on you when there is a claimed seer on a werewolf out) and pursued a different avenue.

[Aj The Epic]

I meant to say that you should read though the game not "I'm town read"

My two top lynches going into this were PK and Black and PK's voting Black so ???

>.>

RCB I'm not chainsawing you, I've read all of 5 pages right now (outside new pages and those right around hammers). I want to know why there's an inconsistency.

[Aj The Epic]

If you expect me to be able to immediately finish 90 pages before the first lynch you're sorely mistaken.

[Aj The Epic]

Almost is extremely desperate to protect SMRP. We haven't had any confirmation that his tracker claim is true, yet almost is doing everything in his power to get himself lynched. So SMRP must be his scum partner who has a strong role. The more almost tries to stop us from lynching SMRP the more it feels like we need to lynch him

I dislike this a lot. Actually, unless someone can give me an example of A50 screwing a scum team he was on, I'd say this is a pretty town-tell simply on the grounds of 'too bad a play to be scum'. The two are definitely not scum together because the play is suicide if both are scum (actually did have someone gladiate when his buddy was at L-1 but I knew that player to be new to game).

They COULD be scum independently (A50 just being wrong or A50 WKing) but I think the second scenario is less likely because LAL would fucking murder A50 right there. No one is inciting it (sadness, I might still tomorrow since you really can't allow it and his contradictions are really strange and need sorted [I don't care/but yet I'm trying to defend SRMP]). The incident of him being wrong isn't worth exploring either because it has nothing to do with A50.

However, it is INCREDIBLY likely that A50 and SRMP are not scum together.

Basically, it comes down to this:

If SRMP is town, then we can assume that he's telling the truth about being a Tracker. We can also assume that the werewolf group will believe him. So, it's much better to lynch a claimed Town PR than target him for the NK, since he can't be protected. Therefore, I would believe that there are definitely scum on his wagon.

If SRMP is scum without a PR, then maybe he gets bussed, and maybe not. However, I think the chances of a bus (even of a vanilla scum buddy), at this point in the game, is relatively low.

If SRMP is scum with a PR, then the chances of him being bussed are much much lower. So, there is likely much fewer scum (if any) on his wagon, and I would say he wouldn't be sitting at L-1 right now if that were the case.

Disagree with point 3. Unless SRMP has a god role, he'd still get bussed for the end all objective of winning the game.

Overall, I'm feeling Peregrine scum. I don't want to explore this today because I don't have all the reasoning to it but tomorrow I'd definitely be willing to put together something. We need SRMP to post and if nothing is said from that slot, that'll have to be our lynch.

Edit: Multiple posts above (peregrines 2445 I think is where I have to start).

[Aj The Epic]

We are lynching SRMP today. end story.

But, we're not.

If SMRP flips scum, then almost will basically be confirmed as his scum partner and we can lynch him tomorrow

Apparently missed my last post on this subject.

[Aj The Epic]

In all honesty, part of it is your childish act and incessant spam. Most of your questions are rhetorical or not even questions worth answering and you're actually wasting our time with this? I wouldn't expect town to have such stagnant and repetitive questions.

[Aj The Epic]

In all honesty, part of it is your childish act and incessant spam. Most of your questions are rhetorical or not even questions worth answering and you're actually wasting our time with this? I wouldn't expect town to have such stagnant and repetitive questions.

None of my questions are rhetorical, and every single one of them has a point. I'm not spamming. I want my questions answered. Given Almost's behavior this entire game, it's laughable that I'm the one that you call "childish."

Tell me something. If we allow one person to get away with ignoring questions, what is preventing others from doing the same? (This is also not a rhetorical question, and thus I want it answered)

Also, your last sentence there doesn't concern me whatsoever. I'm not going to change the way I'm playing, because it's not me who's in the wrong here. But if you really feel that I'm scum (you don't, by the way), then by all means, go ahead and move your vote to me and make me a lynch candidate.

Your third and fourth quotes are anything but useful. "When are you going to answer my questions" and "So what, you're going to pretend Peregrine didn't prompt that" are both unimportant at least, useless normally.

I don't give a shit about your campaign to have someone answer worthless questions. Draw your opinion if you don't get an answer. I've already drawn mine.

[Aj The Epic]

In all honesty, part of it is your childish act and incessant spam. Most of your questions are rhetorical or not even questions worth answering and you're actually wasting our time with this? I wouldn't expect town to have such stagnant and repetitive questions.

What about my questions at the top of this page?

In a literal sense, I doubt he has considered 'every possible' scenario (1872 combinations assuming 2 OR 3 scum remain). If you're going to take up issue, it should be on policy for LAL. The issue with your last sentence is invalidating anyone's opinion on basis of prior correctness just lends itself that the town will eventually be relying on that opinion if the game isn't ended earlier. Like, for example, an IC that isn't killed because they're terribly far off base. A game recently (NY161) came down to said player's choice after having been wrong all game. Invalidating it earlier to make sure they have no voice is going to cause problems since no scum team would ever NK them.

And @Xkfyu, I don't have an issue with it on the grounds that A50 wasn't committed to the vote anyways. It was fairly obvious his intention was not lynching SRMP. Cute that you move me to your lynch pool for disagreeing with you but at this point few people should be paying attention to it since the first person worth lynching is 3 in.

[Aj The Epic]

And @Xkfyu, I don't have an issue with it on the grounds that A50 wasn't committed to the vote anyways. It was fairly obvious his intention was not lynching SRMP. Cute that you move me to your lynch pool for disagreeing with you but at this point few people should be paying attention to it since the first person worth lynching is 3 in.

Lol I knew you were going to accuse me of that. Your slot has been at the top of my lynch pool for a very long time, and it has absolutely nothing to do with you.


Also, this:

Also, please answer my question.

was referring to this:

If we allow one person to get away with ignoring questions, what is preventing others from doing the same? (This is also not a rhetorical question, and thus I want it answered)

I don't give a shit about your campaign to have someone answer worthless questions. Draw your opinion if you don't get an answer. I've already drawn mine.

If you want to lynch me for something that has nothing to do with me, I can't help but feel your involvement in this game is subpar. Unfortunately for you, I'm the one in control of this slot now and the one you'll have to debate with for the remainder of this game.

[Aj The Epic]

Blackstar, how much experience do you have with mafia?

[Aj The Epic]

The RC/Amost/AJ list Xkgyu has is awful and will lose the game if lynched through. Using vote analysis against me is something I'm not going to defend against because I haven't made a vote this game. Pretty fucking pointless. Golden Robster seemed pretty happy to take the first chance he could to start what apparently is an easy wagon, and xkfyu to me is about as sure a scum as they come right now given yesterday's events.

VOTE: xkfyu

[Aj The Epic]

1.) Your work to START counter wagons outside of SRMP (specifically me, Almost50, RCB). Given the flip, I think this is obviously something that needs noted.
2.) Your constant and shit instance that A50 answer your questions, one being rhetorical and one being if he was going to answer you questions. It was obnoxious and trying to make an ass ache out of nothing.
3.)This:

You seem to be daring us to lynch you as if you believe it could never happen, so I want to prove you wrong

UNVOTE:
VOTE: radiantcowbells

The wagon on me started like right after this

Ok, so I went back and read, and the only thing that's really changed is that pisskop is now in my scum pool.

I didn't really see anything that gave me major concerns about neither you nor SRMP. Sure, you could say that his sudden relinquishing of pressure on you was just him back-pedaling, but I'm not convinced that he wasn't doing that for the exact reasons he stated. So, that's really a null for me.

However, I am pretty convinced that you two aren't buddies and this isn't a bus.

Updated lynch preferences are {Almost50, Aj The Epic, pisskop, PeregrineV, Masquerade}.

This lynch pool is shit, with A50 basically town telling yesterday, PV's flip, my knowledge of my role. I don't recall having seen Masquerade post so... That, and the only game I've played with pisskop he was pretty quickly seen universally as scum

. He's not showing the same signs. And you're excluding RCB here but that hasn't held true really ever.

Now. Congrats on figuring Blackstar and SRMP weren't buddies. Not so much on your ever-fluctuating view on what SRMP was. It's interesting that you don't feel either of Blackstar and SRMP are mafia BUT HAVE TO EXPLICITLY STATE they aren't bussing each other. Shouldn't that be defined already? Your going back on your own word here and leaving open the chance to have a free in lynch on one.

[Aj The Epic]

Right now, I'm more on you for scum, as I explained in my last post. Other than that I'm more working on who is town.

[Aj The Epic]

Snarky, your entire iso gives me no reason to explain any of your reads. I could understand this for hiding a power role but you need to start backing up reasons now and playing as a VT. Your vote has no context considering your iso especially since you've wanted Nero so badly in previous days, even jumping off the SRMP wagon towards the middle of it (when I joined).

Xkfyu there's a contradiction in your post. Second paragraph, you've changed your mind on my alignment. Third paragraph, I've done nothing to change your scum read. Hold it constant please and give a real answer on that.

Also A50 isn't scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Yes.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm caught up in a busy week.

stop this.

we lynch AJ.

I mean, I don't hate the Aj lynch. He's definitely right back in my scum pile if Almost flips town, but probably only if Almost flips town.

I still think Almost is the correct lynch.

This isn't good. Basically you lining up a lynch here, especially if you had information on Almost. More than that, I've been defending almost50 as town for a while, specifically because of the gambit yesterday. I see your reasons for wanting that lynch as weak and you're allowing yourself to have a second push off of a town flip when in that case we should definitely be questioning why the hell you were even there.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ, you asked to place in. you specificly pmed the mod to take that role.

i dont like how you made this initative to play and now wont play. its scummy, and bet your ass ill put you down whatever your reason is

I've stated that this is a terrible week for me. The stupid thing about the above statement is your lack of meta knowledge on me shows clear (even though you've toted that you have some on me) to think that I'm less active as scum.

My biggest issue is I currently don't have a good idea on Masq, Cobbler or Golden Robster. The fact that I can't get an idea of their role is probably due to a lack of recognition because I haven't even seen something to bite at. Well... I have read Cobbler a bit. I think it's Cobbler simply due to this nero wagon. That, and:

Hey. I've read the first five pages or so. Here're my preliminary reads in no particular order.

Scumreads:
Blackstar
pisskop slot (not with Almost50)
Xkfyu
GoldenRobster
Almost50 (not with pisskop)

townreads:
Nero Cain

Five pages and 5 scum reads? Through five, the only person who stood out was A50. This is really a stretch among stretches, and the town read count is too low. Once caught up, his quick shift onto SRMP is weird. Low information on vote, but at the same time he could've joined SS's wagon (also three strong). Assuming RC town, we already saw two town making up one and one scum/one town on the other. My belief is if RC is holding enough weight in the town through that lynch (I believe he was) then it's readily explainable that scum would take that specific lynch even on their own buddy (far more likely to occur than their buddy's lynch). Also followed up by flimsy unvote/revotes. ++++:

VOTE: SRMP

He's had plenty of time to full-claim and he's posting elsewhere. I'm scared I might be wrong but maybe less paranoid? Does that make sense? Maybe scared isn't the right word. Nervous maybe? IDK.

Cut and dry scum tell. Feigned emotions to let everyone know you're one of them. I personally call it the Hillary Clinton.

I sat thinking about Xkfyu's post earlier (in which he flipped his read on three players from scum to generally town, in which those 3 made up his wagon, in which he was the largest wagon but in which he probably wasn't the day's lynch...) and have come to the conclusion it is about as null as it gets simply because, while rare for scum to throw out so many potential scum reads, it could also be a panic maneuver used too early. I'm mostly even considering this because the following AtE just sucked ("I'll probably be lynched anyways" plays out like a bad titanic scene in my head).

VOTE: Cobblerfone

[Aj The Epic]

Can I get a reads list from you AJ?

Currently it's something like:

Town: A50, RC, SS
Lean town: PK
True Null: Masq, Golden
Null, but with a strong opinion: Xk
Lean Scum: Nero
Scum: Cobblerfone

[Aj The Epic]

This is what i'm thinking.

Aj lynch --> Someone dies ---> Cobbler lynch

You have too many scum reads (adding Xk to this list along with masq).

Cobber is the lynch for today. And robster needs serious amounts of attentions for such a fluid scum list with very few town reads.

I claim VT. There's nothing to say here anyways.

[Aj The Epic]

probTown. I think I stated this yesterday.

[Aj The Epic]

I have good intuition if it makes you feel better.

[Aj The Epic]

Golden, why not give some town reads.

[Aj The Epic]

Consider my vote on Cobbler. His 3 'reads' are awful, with 2 technical nulls out of three and no real reasons to back up those assertions.

[Aj The Epic]

Xk has been on RCB, Masq, Cobbler, Pisskop today. And a want to lynch A50 again since he somehow thought I crumbed a power role to clear A50.

Then again, Golden has four scum reads...

Right now, everyone is seemingly reading Cobbler as scum to some degree. Whether it's scum leans or scum reads, this is one of the most common grounds. My bet is scum is willing to sacrifice him and have already given up on his chance to live. This pisskop wagon to me makes no sense right now compared to a cobbler lynch.

[Aj The Epic]

But it just so happened that you wanted to vote with him yesterday even though you two have called each other's alignment into question? This is a multi-day voting pattern.

[Aj The Epic]

Why the fuck is anyone not concerned about this ^

[Aj The Epic]

Why the fuck is anyone not concerned about this ^

That JUST got posted, give us time :/

Was talking about the slot as much as the post.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ, what do you think about the derailing of the 'lynch aj' and lynch cobbler' trams?

rob, do you claim to have inside knoweldge wrt rc? youve had a sudden shift in philosophy.

I mean, Golden and RC are still shouting about lynching me but at this point I think golden/cobbler are the last two scum. With Cobbler, I already mentioned the fact that Xk is on five different people (out of eight possible) today. I don't see any reason to rush this but I think that taking Golden at face value right now is throwing the game to scum.

[Aj The Epic]

@Xk: It's a lot more convenient to claim BP after no-killing. I have no reason to doubt RC's claim since he could provide evidence of himself trying to bait the kill. I also get his fixation on Pisskpop. I still don't believe Pisskop is scum and if RC can't come up with anything besides speculation on what scumPisskop would do, I will not believe him. But I don't believe RC is scum.
Also, as you might remember, RC did not want to claim. Which would have been the best play. Yeah they could have claimed vt but what would we have done then? Comment on how he was crumbing a PR and now claiming to be a vt? That's just asking to be lynched. He could have also kept us thinking he was a monk or neighbourizer instead, it already made a lot of sense to us so if he was scum why would he go through the trouble of claiming something entirely different?

I think we should refocus on Cobbler, AJ and Robster, they were not around during this claim and I want their thoughts on it. And Cobblers finished reads as well.

Don't you get it? He HAS claimed VT, essentially. The ONLY difference is that now he has a way to "prove" that he is town.

Continuing with the Monk claim would have been suicide, unless that's what they actually are. It would have been very easy to figure out that that was a lie after N5. If neither of them is Nked, then we lynch one. And claiming neighborizer wouldn't have done a bit of good. Neighborhoods can have scum in them as well.

I'm pretty sure that Cobbler is town, at this point. There were just too many people willing to lynch him. However, I do still want his claim and reads.

Aj and Robster are equally suspicious to me, but nothing like RC and Almost.

Yes, people want to vote Cobbler which is why he has a wagon size of 0.

Or 1:

VOTE: Cobbler[/v]

The lipservice people are giving Cobbler without any real effort suggests to me he is scum but scum doesn't want to sacrifice him. Also I'm glad I'm suspicious to you now, making 6 total suspects from you today, even after you were pretty sure 3 of those were solidly town yesterday.

[Aj The Epic]

Actually, I'm suspicious of all 7 players who are alive, and who aren't me, and you're only about 4th or so on that list, so your overreaction to my "equally suspicious" remark is noted.

Overreaction? Says the one who is throwing suspicions around to cover his own ass to the point where you aren't able to give a town read.

also correcting VOTE: cobbler

[Aj The Epic]

yo I'm down with lynching him if you flip town :>

DAE suck at mafia

Really, has Golden said anything recently to make you the least bit comfortable with the fact that his entire vote is a sheep and he's willing to take 2 easy lynches on out this game, no matter who they fall on? There's no real reason coming from this slot any more outside of "Yeah I'll lynch that if PK flips scum OR town".

[Aj The Epic]

@Town: Are guys blind? Xk is down for lynching just about >ANYONE<. Does this even remotely look like a "concerned" town player to you?? RC, let's lynch Xf today and make it easier for the town. I'm now 50-50 on him already.

Yeah I'm down with this

Pot meet kettle.

Also so far as I know nothing HAS verified the 1 shot BP modifier. Especially with RC being like "Well people would kill me..". No missed NK, no reason to suspect it and a bp claim going into Lylo to perfectly explain why they would survive into tomorrow? Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

[Aj The Epic]

Four scum confirmed where?

[Aj The Epic]

Four scum confirmed where?

It cant be 5, I dont think. The town is pretty weak.

Yes it is. And I'd argue with two pr confirmed (1 shot vig is probably like a .25 utility, seer is a 1?) scum could remain relatively weak (3 scum, 1 being a pr like aesthetic, gf, bp) and the game would remain relatively balanced.

[Aj The Epic]

Robster's issues far exceed some game misplacements.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Robster

You're so fucking scum it hurts. Call RCB to back you up more please.

[Aj The Epic]

Robster, you're scaring me.

Yes, now could you please talk about what drives you to be fine voting with them?

[Aj The Epic]

@pisskop people say I could be scum but it's 100% from the person before me. Honestly, they haven't been able to push anything since because there's nothing to push. The traction they're failing to get is there is 0 case on me.

[Aj The Epic]

Xk, are you new to mafia? Because this is easily the third odd move you've made today.

[Aj The Epic]

I doubt RC busses scum this late in. I also doubt PK and RC are both scum.

[Aj The Epic]

XK do you really think Robster isn't scum?

[Aj The Epic]

Xk, I'll be very honest: You're probably off here. I do see a scenario where RC is scum mainly off the Role claim he has, HOWEVER I don't like pk for scum or them scum together. A50 has been my town read for a long time, and I think that if you look at this game objectively, he's town for similar plays that you've made (Highly questionable and not really a competent town play). I think Masq is pretty much stepped into town leader mode recently.

The people we need to focus on are Robster and Cobbler. RC/PK should be secondary here. At the very least, give me a reason that you don't see Robster (MR sheep RC) and Cobbler (mr jumps reads and have no real explanation) as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

im done with aj

remind me again why we didn't lynch him

oh wait it was the Nero mislynch

You could start by showing why we should lynch me. You've so far not done anything without RC's consent, even avoiding voting here with what you seem to believe to be a good lynch. You are TRYING not to push any buttons and sit in the background as hard as possible. You're manipulative and very clearly unable to come to the forefront and argue a case.

Xk, I'll be very honest: You're probably off here. I do see a scenario where RC is scum mainly off the Role claim he has, HOWEVER I don't like pk for scum or them scum together. A50 has been my town read for a long time, and I think that if you look at this game objectively, he's town for similar plays that you've made (Highly questionable and not really a competent town play). I think Masq is pretty much stepped into town leader mode recently.

The people we need to focus on are Robster and Cobbler. RC/PK should be secondary here. At the very least, give me a reason that you don't see Robster (MR sheep RC) and Cobbler (mr jumps reads and have no real explanation) as scum.

I get it. I really do see why it's hard to believe that this is a bus. But the thing is, I don't think it was every their intention for the pisskop lynch to go through. If you go back and take another look, you'll see that as soon as it looked like the pisskop lynch was about to take off, RC unvoted him and claimed that he was looking for more town reads. Town reads which he doesn't need because he says that there is only one scum remaining. And if that's the case, and he's so sure of pisskop being scum, then we should have won the game already. The more this gets prolonged, and the more they argue with each other, the more convinced I become.

As for the rest of the ones you mention. I do get the case on Cobbler, but as I've already said, and I know you don't agree, I don't like the Cobbler lynch because of how ok everyone is with it. Which means that scum are also ok with it. It just seems a little too easy to me.

Yes, Robster is terribly sheeping RC, but Almost has been doing that exact thing for far longer than Robster has been. So, I'm not sure why you take issue with Robster doing it, but not Almost.

A50 has made multiple moves in this game scum wouldn't. Lying in the open about an obvious fake gladiator is the first real obvious trigger. Baiting people into a lynch on himself, in conjunction with how incredibly loose he is even while making otherwise terrible plays, I see this as town. Robster isn't even close to A50, as I have an issue with him trying to hide behind RC instead of actually coming out and doing something for himself. The last Robster post is basically the premise of everything that is wrong about that slot.

[Aj The Epic]

RC is this like your need to lynch ABR in league mafia and shitting up the thread for the entirety while being completely wrong in the eventuality?

[Aj The Epic]

Why is it that every time I try to push you Aj doesn't commit to a read and instead says 'Oh hey look at that juicy distraction over there.'
and vice versa?
Just wondering. I have seen a general scumread on him from you but you have never voted him and are in fact criticizing me for pushing for you to vote him.

you tried to characterize yourself as having been a major proponent of the SRMP lynch. I proved you wrong.

I committed PK to being a town read a while ago. Of course I'm not going to vote him. Stop being bad.

[Aj The Epic]

As I stated that day, I would vote SRMP if it came to it but had two issues: RC's read changes from d2 to d3 and my need for time to catch up. It makes sense for me to not have voted that day.

[Aj The Epic]

Other than the part that Pisskop and I have already played a game as scum together and we literally stayed as far away from each other as possible? Or the fact that if it were me, I probably wouldn't have hedged my entire game on him surviving?

[Aj The Epic]

Personally would prefer Cobbler first just to end this but I haven't been right all game outside of A50.

VOTE: Cobbler

[Aj The Epic]

Oh whoops UNVOTE: VOTE: Masquerade

[Aj The Epic]

That's a good point about AJ no killing being an odd choice.

I'm reluctant to read through the 800 post ISO of XK but that looks like next step.

Why not just lynch cobbler, be done with the game and if we're wrong with this, you fucking replace your jail on cobbler with xk and repeat?

I'm not wasting my fucking time with this.

[Aj The Epic]

Also the quote in my post is that I WOULD No kill if I saw benefit to it. I've done it before and wouldn't be afraid to do it again. However, in this situation I'd rid the game of Golden so I could keep lynch possibilities on Xk at least and paranoia on RC. It makes no sense to allow a JK to exist and clear people one at a time from a scum asethic perspective. There's also the fact that it cancels out almost all of town's power 100%.

[Aj The Epic]

RC: We've jailed a fucker on a No Kill night.

We've jailed me on a kill night.

The chance of an aesthic, something YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE BRINGING UP, is really low in a setup where it counters EVERY ROLE THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN.

No. Fuck your bullshit.

VOTE: Cobbler

[Aj The Epic]

we're lynching cobbler and jailing xk if for whatever reason we're wrong. Xk isn't dying here.

[Aj The Epic]

If either of us are aesthetic why did we no kill last night and not the night prior, RC? Your argument is shit.

[Aj The Epic]

Considering an aesthetic when we have something 90% of the time that shows a guilty is enough. There's no reason to lynch Xk for this.

[Aj The Epic]

........

Your paranoia is the most useless thing I've ever seen.

[Aj The Epic]

RCB you've been playing exactly like titus these last few days.