Mafia 67 - Abandoned!

[Hjallti]

Here is a random vote for you all:

vote: soupfly

[Hjallti]

@Jordan
Would you have selfvoted if your die would have asked you?

[Hjallti]

FoS:Jordan

for missing the

"

in his quote and not previewing, and thus officially FoSsing someone without wanting that!

unFoS:Jordan

because otherwise the latter reason applies to FoS me.

[Hjallti]

Careful guys... Battle Mage and soupfly are at lynch-13!

=)

Albert is also getting in trouble!

[Hjallti]

Hey I want to look scummy (Is any unvote scummy?):

unvote

[Hjallti]

actually even if everyone needed to lynch them would vote now we wouldn't have a page 4 lynch but page 5.

Anyway:
What reasons could we have to lynch someone on day 1? We are with 28: it will be hard to convince 14 players to vote.

[Hjallti]

Okay, we are warned then.

[Hjallti]

I don't think not posting for two pages is lurking as on each page at least three of us can't post (28-25=3) and some post more on one page.

But anyhow we should all try to play the game.

My thoughts so far: Albert B. Rampage was joking back at some random votes and then got spoked by the bandwagon forming, I am a bit reluctant to call this a huge scumtell at this moment. But he has indeed questions to answer he didn't really answer earlier.

Some people are reading scumtells in the start of those random bandwagons and that can mean two things: either they don't get jokes or they want to show scumtells that aren't there. I guess everyone playing here is smart enough to see that the bandwagons were meant to be funny (and partly reaction testing), so it is interesting that some reacted.

[Hjallti]

Sorry Fonz, I miss the direction of your last comment on bobbyplumb. Do you mean he is scummy? or do you mean this is not scummy, but just strange and someone else reported?

[Hjallti]

I am not scum, and I don't want to be bussed.

This contains a logical flaw: it should have been: Since I am no scum, I

can't

be bussed. (unless I miss someone only scum can bus eachother (at least in that part of the discussion))

@undo: getting on the major band wagon is not

random

[quote="TheStatusQuo]ust a quick point, the REAL PJ plays on these boards, so People might get a bit confused by your referring to me as him. Refer to me as Shea or TSQ, please. [/quote]

I will use TheStatusQuo all the time...
Apart that Niv post is hard to read anyway you should refer to someone with his username all along, in my opinion. If you want to be reffered to as TSQ why is your username not simply TSQ?

[Hjallti]

I think you're still stuck in game mode, because there was no reason to attack me there...

Excuse me, which attack are you talking about? I reported a logical flaw of Albert B. Rampage and one of undo, where I want some reaction. I didn't occur to me I attacked you.

[Hjallti]

in the next week i'll try to check, but it won't be much.
just to be sure

unvote

[Hjallti]

vote: Battle Mage

I believe Tar

[Hjallti]

Hjallti: Wow. From past experience with Hjallti, I know he usually is a really active scum-hunter as town, but in this game I'm just not seeing that at all from his few posts. He really needs more content at this point.

I have a couple of reasons to be more on the background. First of all lately I have been active at nights of this game: I was practically checking entire last week till friday, and it was night the whole time. The game has been moving quick the past 2 weeks, the first of which I had limited acces. Secondly, I played so far newbies and minis which are much more overseenable and need more experience, thirdly talking by experience, I got night killed in 2 minis at the same time (both time in game: as night after first day, as time in real life) and I strat being very active in slow games, where this game is moving fast I even not have the time to think.

1. His statement that he is confirmed sane. This is odd enough in itself, but what makes it even odder is that the Mod said cop sanities will be revealed at the end of the game.

Not granted, obviously the mod could have meant "will revealed to everyone", while he can write it in the role-PM in the beginnining personnaly.

I have two pretty general questions:
1. What is happening here? we got more in this game then I met in all games before: jester victory (It is my first chance to congratulate Albert for this! NICE WORK), conspiracy against the mod, modkill of the SK, sane cop claim, ... Could someone give me an outline of what are the important things in those 30 pages?

More important question I think:
2. Blagho insisted this was a 30 persons game in the queue. Apart from 2 scum, a jester, a SK, a sane cop, what could be plausible configurations for this games? What would balance it?

[Hjallti]

It is not my habbit to call something that is odd but still could be explained "incredibly scummy", but for once I will make an exception.
I find bobbyplumps post (#751) incredibly scummy since you make a number of false assumptions and then call my wording incredibly scummy. (Granted the wording could be better, but then again, the site is open for none native speakers. Let's review

@Hjallti...I find your post (#744) incredibly scummy. Let's review

I got night killed in 2 minis at the same time (both time in game: as night after first day, as time in real life)

... But secondly, you're either lying or you need to update your sig. Because your sig says you've only ben NKed once. So if you got NKed twice at the same time in real life, why wouldn't you post both of those NKs on your sig?

That is a simple one. Only one of those two NK's is in a completed game. I will update my sign each time a game finishes. I think the words 'completed games' were clear.

I made that comment because I wanted to explain to Aimee why I stand back more. She was metagaming, I thought I had to respond metagaming.

Not granted, obviously the mod could have meant "will revealed to everyone", while he can write it in the role-PM in the beginnining personnaly.

I made the same point in my post that you are responding to. Either you glossed over it or you are posting stuff that's not really adding to the discussion.

I glossed over your pretty unclear point (' it could mean something different'). You shouldn't call something odd and then go on and explain that it probably is not odd.

I have two pretty general questions:
1. What is happening here? we got more in this game then I met in all games before: jester victory (It is my first chance to congratulate Albert for this! NICE WORK), conspiracy against the mod, modkill of the SK, sane cop claim, ... Could someone give me an outline of what are the important things in those 30 pages?

It seems to me like someone who is dedicated to finding scum would read those pages himself, rather than relying on others to Cliff Notes it for you. Maybe you don't really care to investigate because you already know who the scum is?

Uh, did I say I didn't read those pages? Then it would be hard to sum up what has happened, or you think I made it up?
Did I say I wanted to make my mind up based on other peoples suspicions? If I don't want to play this game I wouldn't sign up or ask a replacement. I have a very decent scheme in my head of what seems important in the game to me at this point. What I wanted is that experienced players also point out what they think is important. There has been a lot of two persons quarrels that in the long run are not important unless someone makes mistakes.

It is incredibly scummy to call the post incredibly scummy before I could answer these questions.

[Hjallti]

The reason you have to go first is, that if you are indeed guilty, we can trust K-Scope as a cop. Lynching K-Scope first, finding out he's telling truth, and then lynching you means that we lynch a Cop for a Scum which is not a good thing, IMO.

I would like to point out that this wouldn't really make me trust Kaleidoscope to be a cop. Kscope-bobbyplump both scum seems weird but that may be exactly the idea behind the fight they are putting up...
They introduce a new cop. ((With no indicated sanity, which is weird to me: if a mod PM's the sanity to one cop, he would also PM the sanity to any other cop?)) confuse the Tar-claim, and try to distract us.

Second logically possible failure in the discussion: could there be a 75% sane cop: every nightchoice he makes, the investigation has 3/4 chance to be right?

Thirdly, I don't see a problem with in creating a 30-player game and have strong scum against more than one cop. If you have only one cop the balanse might be very bad. Let's naively assume that blagho took a jester, SK then a 7-21 balanse. we might be in scenario: 1jester, 1 sK, 7scum (1GF+6others), 21 town (2cop,2doc almost 4 times the C9), although I really expect there being anothe neutral around (surviver?).

[Hjallti]

I think there could easily be 2 sane cops. And I know I'm town and Kscope got a clean result on me, so he must be sane.

So a cop can't be half sane? or Three quarter sane?

Anyway, I would vote for Bobbyplump now, if Tar wasn't away.

[Hjallti]

2) You're killing the MVP of this game thus far. I've caught one SK (TSQ), one scum (Kscope), have a plan to verify Tar today (lynching Kscope to find out if he is goon or GF), and I have my sights on a couple other probable scum.

I am not really thinking in the MVP way, but let's see: I thought TheStatusQuo was modkilled and your other claims or all not proven yet. Not is your plan even able to give us evidence of Tar's cop claim neither.

The MVP's (for town) might wel be seen as:

TSQ (killing The Fonz and getting himself killed)
and
Tar (getting BM killed and preventing probably the nightkill last night)

I would even put ABR on 3 for getting a neutral lynched at day 1.

So I wouldn't lynch the living MVP now...

[Hjallti]

Mod: could you update post nr. 0?

[Hjallti]

I guess if we hammer tomorrow Tar will be in time for his night choice

[Hjallti]

Could someone check my counting: bobbyplump is at 8 votes now, and we are 22 so 12 to lynch: bobby is at L-4.

Right?

[Hjallti]

So I will put now, 6 hours later our beloved bobby on L-3

vote: bobbyplump

^^^^

WOAH! Scum much?

You want to hammer on the 10th, giving the mafia two whol real life days to make a decision before Tar would even be back?!?!?!

ReFOS: Hjallti

Djeez, First of all I already said that I would vote for you if Tar was coming back, unless you gave me reason not to vote you or someone asked to be vote off for some other reason.
Secondly, I don't see your point at all, I thought the order of the night choices arriving with the mod doesn't matter, whatsoever. If Tar is back he can make his. Anyway if the hammer falls now, people who will log in monday, will be able to send in their night choices as well.

-During the night I will be waiting for players to send in their night actions. If this takes too long, I will give a deadline. The topic will be closed at night.

[Hjallti]

Maybe the time for your final thoughts is near then... we are a big group. Out of 22: 9 have voted you, so only 3 of the other 12 should do so.... and maybe your final thoughts give us other thoughts... I am curious!

[Hjallti]

mod, can we have a votecount?

With bobby at L-1, we should give him a chance to gives his final thoughts!

[Hjallti]

Hjallti – Hasn’t said much. But he answered my accusations well. He made a few non-substantive posts early in the game. Also suggested very early that we should “No Lynch” on Day 1. Thought he could have gone either way, until he asked for a lynch before Tar (the real cop) would be around. I highly suspect him, but for some reason I think he might be just a townie who made some idiotic comments. Nevertheless FOS: Hjallti

If I suggested a no lynch day 1 it would have a bolded vote:nolynch in the post which it hadn't. I just asked in my bad English (and I know someone thought I meant it other), how we would ever come to such a huge number of votes, without to much information. It was a

idiotic

newbie comment, granted. As nobody bother to go in to that again I didn't bother to correct that. My question for the lynch was not 'come on let lynch him' but like I addressed last wednesday (post 783) 'waiting due to Tars' absence has no longer use, I think', because if the lynch went down later than last friday Tar was away.

I admit I didn't do much, but note that I addressed this as well: first of all there is already a lot of talk, and I have been around during game-nights mainly.

[Hjallti]

I think it's ironic that people feel the need to defend themselves against what I'm saying, (...)

In my case it is rather respect. You took the trouble to give your final thoughts, I take the trouble to reply. Sorry if you feel sad about that

[Hjallti]

Real life got me hanging out a week longer... back on monday 3th

[Hjallti]

I cant really respond since french keyboards are really retarded and i can barely quote. back on sunday, so expect a reply then.

I am quoting you on a french keyboard. I don't see the problem.

So the case a this point is:
Tarhalindur claimed cop and found Kaleidoscope town
Kaleidoscope claimed cop and found bobbyplump scum
and finally

I thought this lynch was pretty straight-forward, with a claimed 'guilty' on bobby. The reason it's not that simple, is of course K-Scope himself. The only thing he has been doing for the last pages is mess with the town, and that is not what I call cop behaviour.

I would have liked to see it the other way round, but as this waiting for a lynch is harming town as well, I guess it is better to get L-1!

unvote

vote: Kaleidoscope

[Hjallti]

I am with undo and Aimee at the moment. I think Kaleidoscope played pretty much anti-town lately; On the other hand that is pretty bizarre. If he wouldn't have said anything we would have killed bobby already. So in all likely scenarios it seems he is playing bad.

Could K-scum have thought to offer bobbyplump-scum to get a free pass? That would have been useless since he was already freed by Tar. In that case he is investigation safe (GF) or Tar is scum.
Could K-scum be another neutral hoping to get killed (2 jesters in one game?)? Expecting a cop claim would do it via counterclaim.

I don't understand his playing in any possible scenario whatsoever.

[Hjallti]

I pondered much about this game and I think ir is more logical to vote bobby than Kscope. So

unvote, vote bobbyplump

I think I do not understand this comment deep enough. Could you elaborate? It might make me swap votes again, but I doubt it.

Tar, the most likely setup atm is you being scum with K-scope and Sir T. If we lynch K-scope to be guilty, that leads us to you and Sir T. The gain from a guilty K-scope is much greater than that of a guilty Bobby, while an innocent K-scope is the same as an innocent Bobby.

[Hjallti]

vote: Aimee

[Hjallti]

mod

Pie do you have the rights to update post 0. It would be welcome.
How much does it take to lynch?

[Hjallti]

unvote

vote: Kaleidoscope

[Hjallti]

1) Aimee
2) Undo
3) Guzame
4) Honary Hitchhiker
5) Niv
6) Khelvaster

1 is clear of course, but I wouldn't put undo or Khelvaster on my list. the other 3 I don't have a real clue for yet.

[Hjallti]

I investigated Jordan, and he is a townie, though that was expectable, no?

Why did you investigate someone for who was it axpectable he was a townie? If I had to choose I would have taken someone that I get a scum-read of or no read, or someone else believes it is scum.

[Hjallti]

vote:Aimee

6th vote!

[Hjallti]

We only need a couple votes now. 10 or 11, I didn't keep track.

[Hjallti]

Pie, I very much appreciate your comodding! thanks and I als don't hope the game dies. To much modkill might unbalance the game though.

[Hjallti]

...48 hours between my posts...

....We might try to get some content, like "I am sure G***** is town" or something, but it seems only sensible that we vote of Aimee now.

A deadline would solve the problem as well....

[Hjallti]

Guzame has posted very little in this game, but he did post and made the votes that were normal in the game. I'm inclined to say his town, apart from his lurking he hasn't done anything scummy so far, and I refuse to call lurking a scumtell. Tomorrow we need some more content maybe and we will see if Guzame starts to play the game.

[Hjallti]

Seems we are falling back in waiting once again. Are there any ideas how to stop this. mass prod, mass replace, deadline, ... others?

From the start I have been wondering why blahgo insisted on the 30 players. If there is something in his setup forcing this, or so... but it sure breaks up badly now. Are these lurkers actively playing on the site, or like blahgo left without a trace?

[Hjallti]

Then only xyzzy can be expected back and Aimee shouldn't be replaced, she doesn't post to avoid content or something. We need 7 replacements....

[Hjallti]

Could we have a votecount as well Pie?

[Hjallti]

Can we just call Aimee lynched? every active player is voting for them

That is why I want a deadline, then it is a lynch, that way it is even by the rules, although an exception could as well be made. The only problem is that if there is no positive result on investigation tomorrow, we are back in the same situation.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP: We are in a worse situation. If we have a positive result we are in the same situation.

[Hjallti]

With a deadline we can lynch as well.

[Hjallti]

even double mod abandonned...

[Hjallti]

okay we are alive again...

[Hjallti]

I hope everyone sends all information to JordanA24 they have... For instance: Aimee can send all mafia, and might even be aware of their powers...

[Hjallti]

I had really fun with this game, and I thought we were winning...

I was : a 100% sane cop. I got some investigations equal with Tar, but also three others. Was it a good idea to actually already give clues in the thread in case I would be NK-d?

Did you see the clues? The only scum I investigated was Battle Mage Night 0. I was hesitant to share, when suddenly Albert jested his way out, and afterwards Tar claimed cop with the same investigation, so I had no reason to claim.

[Hjallti]

You'd investigated undo, hadn't you? Something about that "I don't think Khel or undo are scum" combined with my innocent on Khel gave me that impression.

Yes and the night afterwards Guzame, but you might have missed that:

....We might try to get some content, like "I am sure G***** is town" or something, but it seems only sensible that we vote of Aimee now.

I didn't want to make it to obviuous.

[Hjallti]

Tornado claimed vanilla
xyzzy was the only player to abandon the game without abandonning the site...

[Hjallti]

Do you mean we had all but one cum nailed already? Then there must have been some other neutrals apart from the jester and the SK

[Hjallti]

I think it was a 30-player game, so the balance was way of. A jester and SK don't make the balance that much better since they are also not pro-scum.
I would think there might have been more neutrals than 2 then. Which powers did the scum have?