Mafia 67 - Abandoned!

[Sir Tornado]

Vote Thestatusquo

[Sir Tornado]

Yes, but then I'd have unvoted. (Actually makes me wonder about the point of me rolling a 28-sided die.)

You are not the only one:

Clicky

[Sir Tornado]

As apology for another game

I feel bad for using you like that.

That was where I really messed up, didn't I?

[Sir Tornado]

Yeah, I didn't think you would do such a thing to Aimee. Your a bad man, Tornado 8)

Bloody hypocrite

[Sir Tornado]

That reminds me.

Unvote

Vote: Battle Mage

He knows why.

[Sir Tornado]

Actually, we

should

make a policy lynch.

I really don't mind lynching BM this early. It will probably save us a lot of problems later.

Unvote, vote BM

Agreed.

That guy just endgamed me about an hour ago! Obv a scum tell.

[Sir Tornado]

<Insert generic "What did BM do?" statement>

Check out the recently concluded Jester Mafia.

That is what he did.

[Sir Tornado]

Hey, you deserved to be endgamed. You were on more town wagons than me, and i was the lonely scumbag. :p

Not really. I was on only 1 town wagon all game (unless you consider the last hammering vote)

Plus, you were the one who were on the Jester-wagon.

[Sir Tornado]

Also, I would like to note that I will NOT let this game turn into a "lets lynch battle mage because we can." type of affair. My opinion of battle mage is well known, but all of you who are pressuring him for no reason and saying things like "I really wouldn't mind lynching BM right now" (a LYNCH!!! On page fucking 4!!!!) are really hitting my scumdar.

Actually, ABR has a bigger wagon (5 votes to BM's 4). And, no one is going to lynch BM just yet. I will take my vote off once this game goes on. It wasn't a serious vote anyway (A sort of OMGUS vote in the random stage).

[Sir Tornado]

just quickly read through the game, and i really didn't see why either of these wagons started. could someone explain that to me. also, will be orking all day tomorow. probally wont post anything sustanciual until 8 or nine pm tomorow

The wagon on ABR started because people were unhappy of being included in his "people who bring spice to my games" list (check his sig)

The wagon on BM began because, well, he is BM.

Hope that helps!

[Sir Tornado]

BM, you are very lucky I did not know any of this yesterday.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

.

I have seen ABR play exactly in this fashion once before. Then, he'd claimed a Psychopath with a one shot NKing ability when he was in fact a doctor. Don't know of what to make of his play.

[Sir Tornado]

Hey you weren't in that game.

I replaced Stalling Champ in it after he was banned.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm getting cold feet about this wagon. Unvote

Would it be because ABR wagon seems to be losing steam?

[Sir Tornado]

a) It sort of correlates with his normal playstyle.

Not exactly. ABR plays a weird game. But not

this

weird.

[Sir Tornado]

@ Jordan, thanks for your input. You are looking fairly pro-town to me, but I don't know if I can bring myself to take my vote off you just yet.

Huh?! You are voting for a player who is looking pro town to you?

[Sir Tornado]

What do others think about the set-up?

Obviously there are at least two killing parties, and the way in which one of the kills took place (face ripped off) shows that there is a serial killer involved here.

So, if there is only one mafia family, then it won't be a 4 member family, it will be rather large (6 or 8 members?) The only other alternative I see is to have 2 usual sized mafia families (4 or 5 members) with either both having selected the same target (highly improbable) or one of them having chosen not to NK (although why one would do that is beyond me)

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP: To add to my second case, it is possible that one of the families may have been roleblocked or something... or a doc protect seems likely in fact, I see Doc protect much more likely, because a doc is sure to protect the easiest target on N1 (usually one of the more expirienced players) rather than a roleblocker, who would have to essentially target one person on random.

[Sir Tornado]

Bobbyplump: I did read the whole post. You seem to be in 3 minds in there. You say that Jordan seems to be pro town, but he has committed an action early on in the game which makes you feel he is anti-town. Then, you admit that the scum would not reveal themselves so early, and say that his earlier SK comment doesn't get outweighed his play after that.

Also,

Compare:

@ Jordan, thanks for your input. You are looking fairly pro-town to me, but I don't know if I can bring myself to take my vote off you just yet.

with

So the fact that you've appeared to be playing in the interest of the town really doesn't outweigh your SK comment on Page 1.

Does anyone apart from me think that they are totally contradictory to each other? The first one says Jordan is protown, the second says exactly opposite of that.

BM: The thought occured to be exactly the moment I pressed the submit button. I cross posted by editing post with yours.

[Sir Tornado]

@ Jordan, thanks for your input. You are looking fairly pro-town to me, but I don't know if I can bring myself to take my vote off you just yet.

Huh?! You are voting for a player who is looking pro town to you?

QFMT.

I also don't really see where speculating on the setup today is going to get us. We have scum and a town, let's look for the former and try to avoid hitting the latter. That's all we really need to know for now. This whole setup discussion looks like an attempt to distract the town right now. Also, whether or not there are multiple families usually becomes apparent once a scummer is killed.

The Fonz: Discussing setups of the games is so fashionable that it has occurred in almost all the non regular minis I have played. It is impossible to say whether the person who started this discussion started it with the purpose to distract the town, or started it because it gets started in every single game.

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP:

In my last post, by non-regular minis, I meant all the games which were not regular minis...

[Sir Tornado]

[quote="The Fonz]
By 'all non regular minis' do you mean everything but regular minis, or every mini that wasn't regular?
[/quote]

Answered that in my 278, which I think got cross posted with your post

It may happen a lot, but I don't see how it is of any real use to the town here and now (later, maybe). Therefore, I don't see it as particularly pro-town.

Hmm... I tend to agree with you here... but what I meant to say is, that discussing setups is not necessarily a scum tell.

Moving on, I'd like Bobby to answer my 276 as soon as he gets the opportunity to do so.

[Sir Tornado]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]

But, as many votes are already piled up at you so quickly, you're clearly not the play today.

[/quote]

That is craplogic and in incredibly WIFOM statement.

[Sir Tornado]

Albert: 3 questions:

1) Why are you claiming right now so early on the first day?

2) Why are you helping us to win when your win condition is clearly different?

3) Why shouldn't we lynch a claimed SK?

[Sir Tornado]

1) Because I have a plan.

Your win condition is different than ours. Shouldn't we NK you before you implement that plan then?

3) Because he is going to kill whoever you choose, and I always wondered what would happen if there was an unofficial voting process to complement the normal lynching. As I said, this is an experiment, I want to see what happens. Lynching a SK day 1 is far worse than lynching a mafia. So think well, and don't jump on me just yet.

Ugh! The last time I saw you "experiment" it proved to be horrifying experience for the town.

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP:

I meant "Lynch" rather than NK in my last post. Was thinking about a completely different game.

[Sir Tornado]

To get my 2 knuts in, I won't be surprised if ARB turns out to be some cop or doctor or mason or roleblocker or a bomb or anything like that. <sarcastic>Or, perhaps even an enhanced psychopath</sarcastic>. Frankly speaking, I don't believe one word of what ABR says in a mafia game, if he is playing like this and says "He is experimenting". The guy is crazy!

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP, I meant ABR rather than ARB in the first line of my last post.

[Sir Tornado]

He might even be a kamikaze.

That is something I am sure ABR is not.

BTW: People are highly recommended to read day 1 of Mini 436. Can't link it because it is ongoing, but read it and compare ABR's behaviour there with his behaviour here.

[Sir Tornado]

All right ABR, I'll call your bluff. Kill me tonight.

[Sir Tornado]

You really think I don't learn from my mistakes, Sir Tornado ?

Well, if you do then why the heck are you playing this way? I mean, why would a SK reveal himself the very first day? No, scratch that, from the very beginning of the first day?

[Sir Tornado]

And, I don't think you actually did a mistake there to learn from... you just wanted to screw the town out and have a jolly good time pushing everyone's sanity to limits in that game, IMO. That's what it looked like anyway.

[Sir Tornado]

Okay screw that I'm going to kill you tonight Tornado. I'll even ask the mod if I can use a chainsaw to put you to death tonight. Choose your next words carefully, for this will be your last day in this game.

Certainly. My first time being NKed here. Lovely.

[Sir Tornado]

Is it normal to have Jester or Kamikaze in a closed normal large game?

[Sir Tornado]

One more thing I wanted to know: Has there been a normal game where Jesters have been used? (without informing the players that is)

In any case, if there is a Jester, it is likely that he would have an independent win condition, i.e. the battle between town and the scum would go on regardless of what happens with regards to Jester.

[Sir Tornado]

Another point against ABR being a Jester: If he is offering to do the town's bidding, he becomes a pseudo vig for the time being. Mafia will not like that and they are bound to NK him to avoid themselves being NKed. A Jester loses if NKed. I don't think a Jester would make this kind of play on the first day.

[Sir Tornado]

This is all very interesting. So assuming I kill Sir Tornado overnight, would everyone be open to negotiations ?

With the said Chainsaw?

[Sir Tornado]

I preferred it when you thought of me as Jester, but I can't claim 4 roles in one page...seriously Jordan is hopping on and off a lot, I don't like this.

You don't like that Jordan is vote hopping on a claimed SK?

[Sir Tornado]

Aimee: He's going to NK me because I called his bluff regarding his claim, and asked him to NK me if his claim is correct. Please note, that you should believe him

only

if I am chainsawed to death, which is how he promised he would kill me.

[Sir Tornado]

How often in life do you ask to get chainsawed to death.

I actually did ask him to, so I would say... once?

[Sir Tornado]

How often in life do you ask to get chainsawed to death.

I actually did ask him to, so I would say... once?

Hope so, otherwise you'd be a zombie, and whatever role a zombie would have, it sure as hell wouldn't be good for the town.

Where and how the heck did a Zombie get in the discussion?

[Sir Tornado]

How often in life do you ask to get chainsawed to death.

I actually did ask him to, so I would say... once?

Seriously, what the hell? If you are town, that's incredibly bad play. (come to think of it, it doesn't make sense as scum either). Why would you want to off a pro-town player to confirm an SK?

I haven't read any of the 5 pages after the quoted post, so I may look a bit foolish here. But, to answer your question Fonz, I asked ABR to kill me because I think he is

not

the SK.

[Sir Tornado]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]

FoS Jordan

for insinuating a jester lynch is good.
[/quote]

LMAO! This is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

KScope, please explain exactly how is advocating a jester lynch scummy?

[Sir Tornado]

How often in life do you ask to get chainsawed to death.

I actually did ask him to, so I would say... once?

Seriously, what the hell? If you are town, that's incredibly bad play. (come to think of it, it doesn't make sense as scum either). Why would you want to off a pro-town player to confirm an SK?

I haven't read any of the 5 pages after the quoted post, so I may look a bit foolish here. But, to answer your question Fonz, I asked ABR to kill me because I think he is

not

the SK.

What do you think he is?

I think he is a pro-town power role who is out of his mind at worst or, at best a scum. Not a SK by any means.

Also, if he is scum, then this is probably orchestrated.

[Sir Tornado]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]
[quote]KScope, please explain exactly how is advocating a jester lynch scummy?[/quote]I explained why. Read back.[/quote]

K-scopre: By your explanation, did you mean this:

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]If he´s scum, it would´ve been more likely that he claimed vig instead of sk, as it at least would´ve saved him an extra day. And lynching a jester in general is wrong, because the point of the town is to only win for themselves. [/quote]

Because it is not. It doesn't really explain why advocating a Jester lynch is scummy. Advocating a Jester lynch can be, at best described as ultra-conservative play and at worst can be described as Jester-like play. Not scummy be any means. Because, the object of scum is (like town) win the game for themselves too, and lynching the Jester prevents that, as it does for the town.

[Sir Tornado]

sir tornado - what seems orchestrated about it?

If ABR turns up scum, it is very much likely that this is some sort of gambit from the scum instead of foolish play or "experimentation" by ABR.

Aiding a non-town player in their win condition is bad play. If you suspect a player is a jester, you should keep him alive and let a vig handle him. A doc wouldn't be in his right mind to protect a jester anyway. At this point, we don't know if there is a vig, but letting him live a day doesn't hurt us. So in general, lynching someone on the day you suspect him to be a jester is bad play. We first need to figure out if that player is killable by any other means then lynch.

That is all very well, but you still haven't explained how it is scummy and warranted a FOS. You say it is bad play, ok, I agree with you that it could be called that. But how is it scummy as you originally claimed? Bad play=/= Scummy. We are looking for scum, and not bad players.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok ABR. I'll make a deal. Explain your entire play so far with the reasons for your SK claim. If the claim is true, then why did you claim it on day 1?

[Sir Tornado]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Because lynching a jester == wasting a lynch. And wasting a lynch is something scum likes to do.[/quote]

But the scum still fail to be the sole winners of the game, which is why you originally claimed townie wouldn't want to lynch the jester. And, a Jester can be quite annoying and distracting when the town tries to catch the scum later on in the game, and is advisable to be vigged out anyway, which effectively wastes a vig NK.

[Sir Tornado]

Well, I was right about one thing. ABR wasn't a SK.

[Sir Tornado]

Day Dawns.


You find The Fonz dead, on the ground. You find his face about a block away. Etched onto his forehead you read: "import face.ripper.*;" Upon futher inspection you find that he was a

Mafia Goon

.



You also find Mastermind of Sin, Townie, dead with 3 bullets in his chest.



13 to lynch.

I think this would mean that there is only one scum group and the town roleblocker/doctor did not stop any killing party for either of the nights. So, that means that we have something like 5/6 more scum to lynch along with a SK.

[Sir Tornado]

I also don't like the end of the day when Fonz defended sirtornado a bunch and seemed to scold him for asking to be NKed by ABR.

QFT.

I don't like it too.

[Sir Tornado]

He's scum. But, my read on battle mage isn't exactly the best one there is. To me, it appears that he is playing too clean a game right now. That's scummy for him.

[Sir Tornado]

My opinion on BM ? BM is one of hte best players on the site, and the fact that nobody tried to kill him suggests he is probably mafia. Otherwise they'd feel threatened by him and have tried to kill him, instead of Mastermind of Sin.

I don't think I like this post at all.

FOS: Skruffs

[Sir Tornado]

For the record, I'd like to say it would have been much better had ABR been allowed to survive to N1 and then made to "NK" me (like I had asked him to) and, then, of course, he wouldn't have succeed and then put to the screws tomorrow. But, still, I don't think this lynch hampers our chances of winning in any way. I do feel totally irritated about ABR winning though. ( )

K-Scope: Jester does mess up the town awful lot. He can cause a lot of damage to the town by his anti-town activities. He would have tried to appear as scum and distracted us from the real scum. I would prefer a Jester being lynched on D1 rather than later in the game.

[Sir Tornado]

Vote: BM

Let us see if Tar is telling the truth.

[Sir Tornado]

TSQ, Is that true? I'll have to modkill you if it is.

I can't risk the day ending without me revealing my information, so I can't risk holding back my information on Battle Mage any longer.

I'm a Cop. I'm mod-confirmed sane and get exact alignments. I got a neutral result on Albert N1 (hence my early wagon on him). I targetted Battle Mage last night.

Battle Mage is Mafia.

Vote: Battle Mage
LOCK ON: Battle Mage

On a second read, this seems to be a bit strange. Do cops get alignments? Or do they get the information as to whether the player is scum or not?

Well, we'll find out whether Tar is telling the truth or not soon enough.

[Sir Tornado]

Battle mage has no reason not to follow confirmed cops...unless he's scum.

Er... you might want to check the last page again. The claimed cop accused Battle Mage of being scum. So, of course BM has a reason not to follow the claimed cop, regardless of whether he is a scum or not.

[Sir Tornado]

Right now, BM is on -4. I think people should be careful for not lynching him until he has chance to complete his claim.

[Sir Tornado]

Not knowing Tar's results, i cannot say whether he is sane or not. Of course, assuming he is sane (to counter-balance my flawed sanity) the obvious possibility is a Mafia Framer.

What is a Mafia Framer and what does he do? I tried to search the wiki for it, but no luck.

[Sir Tornado]

It's misguided too. Harry does not die.

[Sir Tornado]

Cop sanities are supposed to be revealed after the game is over...

So, how did Tar come to know that he is a sane cop in his role PM? I am not sure I trust Tar all that much... BM's lynch could have been pre-arranged by the scum... but I am not too sure of this.

Meh, I'll have to think this over.

[Sir Tornado]

Cop sanities are supposed to be revealed after the game is over...

So, how did Tar come to know that he is a sane cop in his role PM? I am not sure I trust Tar all that much... BM's lynch could have been pre-arranged by the scum... but I am not too sure of this.

Meh, I'll have to think this over.

Wishy-washy, anyone?

FoS: SirTornado

Yeah, I agree it is wishy-washy... but my question still stands.

[Sir Tornado]

What do you mean by a counter claim?

[Sir Tornado]

What do you mean by a counter claim?

A counterclaim boils down to someone saying "Hey, he's lying! He can't be the role he claimed, because *I'm* the role he claimed!".

I know what it means. I meant to ask what did Niv mean by "have a counterclaim" specifically for this game. It is obvious there will be more than one cop, so a counterclaim doesn't really matter.

Yeah, I agree it is wishy-washy... but my question still stands.

I don't know why I have confirmed sanity - all I know is that I have confirmation that I am Sane. I suspect that there may be a non-Sane cop out there somewhere, but I can't be sure.

Now, a question for you: Why are you fishing for a modkill?

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

How am I fishing for a modkill?

[Sir Tornado]

What do you mean by a counter claim?

A counterclaim boils down to someone saying "Hey, he's lying! He can't be the role he claimed, because *I'm* the role he claimed!".

I know what it means. I meant to ask what did Niv mean by "have a counterclaim" specifically for this game. It is obvious there will be more than one cop, so a counterclaim doesn't really matter.

Yeah, I agree it is wishy-washy... but my question still stands.

I don't know why I have confirmed sanity - all I know is that I have confirmation that I am Sane. I suspect that there may be a non-Sane cop out there somewhere, but I can't be sure.

Now, a question for you: Why are you fishing for a modkill?

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

How am I fishing for a modkill?

You are asking me to elaborate on something when said elaboration would lead directly to a modkill. I have said enough as it is.

That is all.

That's BS.

Only directly quoting PMs from the Mod gets you a modkill. I believe most mods accept paraphrasing as fine. And, I was not, asking you to quote your role PM (which, I don't think anyone will do even if I did ask them anyway) -- not even to paraphrase it -- which means I was not fishing for a modkill.

[Sir Tornado]

For now,

FOS: Sir Tornado

as his last posts are incredibly scummy.

I love the way the word "incredibly scummy" is thrown about...

Sir Tornado:

Nothing very noteworthy, except recently. I'm not sure why he is doubting Tar at this point, since it would be pretty stupid to do if Tar was scum. It all seems like a way to dent Tar's credibility here...

I am not sure I get this logic... why would this be a stupid thing to do if Tar is scum? Wouldn't we want his credibility dented if he is scum?

The reason I made the first post, is because I had once thought of claiming a cop and outing one of my scumbuddies in another game; and then naming a few innocent people along with a few scum as innocent, and then get lynched myself at some point. This pulls the town into a huge maze of WIFOMs: "Are the people he said were innocent actually innocent" etc.

The reason I went through this thought process is because I thought Tar was going to investigate me (as directed by bobbyplump) and I felt that I was liable to be set up-ed, had Tar named me correctly innocent today, and then had he himself turned up as scum later in the game. Retrospectively, I should have posted that post only after Tar had confirmed me innocent, and not posted it once he made it clear that he said that he investigated K-Scope instead tonight. Bad timing on my part...

[Sir Tornado]

Everything is going fantastic. We have two dead mafia, a dead SK, and a jester gone and it's only Day 4. Plus we didn't lose anyone last night. This is amazing.


I see absolutely no reason to doubt Tar, everything he said has been accurate, no one has counterclaimed, and he has led us to get a mafia. Not only that but because he is the cop and no one died last night... it is very probable that a doctor chose to save him and he was chosen by the mafia.


I'm going to have to reread the entire game now that we know two mafia, two humans (kscope + tar), a SK, and a jester. That should provide a lot of information. For now,

FOS: Sir Tornado

as his last posts are incredibly scummy. After I look through everything I'll cast a vote.

I'm enjoying the quick speed of this game so hopefully we can finish another round within a week.

I think this speaks for itself.

Unvote, Vote: SorintheSeeker

I should note right now that if anyone hammars before August 12 for any reason, I will consider it the equivalent of claiming scum.

I don't actually see anything scummy in that statement. You have to differentiate between statements which are malicious and the statements which are misguided. This one was clearly misguided.

When looking for scuminess, you should try to put yourself in the scum's shoes and think what the scum would gain from doing something you think is scummy. StS's statement which you highlighted and called scummy would achieve nothing, absolutely nothing, if he is a scum. That alone is a very strange reason to actually vote anyone for.

And, your last statement worries me a bit... why would you actually need to consider a hammer before 11th a claim for scum if you can investigate that person at night and confirm his alignment?

[Sir Tornado]

I think what he means is anyone who hammers quite a bit before the 12th means that, since he has very limited access, if Day 5 breaks before he gets back, he might not have the chance to send in a cop investigation.

Ah, Ok. I forgot about the Limited access thing.

[Sir Tornado]

Sir Tornado: He's been attacking KScope since the end of Day 1, and he's still trying to cast suspicion on me despite new evidence in my favor (BM coming up scum).

I think this is massively overstating it.

[Sir Tornado]

I meant the "attacking K-scope" part.

[Sir Tornado]

Or, rather "attacking K-Scope

since

day 1 part".

And, you will realize, that it proves nothing. Absolutely nothing.

[Sir Tornado]

Reaffirming my vote for Kscope.

I am town, and I have caught myself another mafiate. And I'm going to prove it to you. Kscope's phoney role claim fails a simple logic test. We can eliminate all cop possibilities thusly:

1. Paranoid/Naive Cop. This option is eliminated because he says he's gotten both guilty and innocent reads.

2. Insane Cop. This option is eliminated because he says MoS came up town, which we know to be true based on the Night 2 kill. So if he got at least one correct read, he is not insane.

3. Sane Cop. I know this to be false because I know I am not scum. The group, however, does not have confirmation of that at this point. So we can find out another way. Follow me:

If KScope is sane, then we also know that Tar is a cop (because Tar came up innocent, and he wouldn't lie if he were town). We also know Tar is getting accurate reads based on the Battle Mage lynch. So ask yourself...would Blahgo really give us TWO SANE COPS??? No way.


Simple logic says Kscope is scum. Lynch his ass.

ICING ON THE CAKE: A Kscope lynch will also help us in another way. If Kscope turns out to be a GF, immune from cop investigations, then we can put even MORE faith into Tar. If Kscope turns out to be a run-of-the-mill goon with no immunity, we'll know Tar is a lying scummy bastard pretending to be a cop.

The prosecution rests.

K-Scope got a correct result with MoS. This means he is not insane. He got a guilty on you, which means you indeed are a scum if K-Scope is not lying.

Possibilities:

1) We lynch you, you come up town, we lynch K-Scope tomorrow. If he comes up GF, we believe Tar; we get the GF for a townie, which is excellent.

2) We lynch you, you come up scum, we believe K-Scope, we get a scum lynch correct.

3) We lynch you, you come up town; we lynch K-Scope, he comes up scum goon, we lynch Tar. We have 2 scum for just 1 townie mis-lynch, which is always favourable.

[Sir Tornado]

Sir T, you are ignoring point 3. Tar and Kscope both can't be telling the truth. So the correct town play in this situation is to lynch Kscope. The scenarios will look like this:

I have already included this point:

3) We lynch you, you come up town; we lynch K-Scope, he comes up scum goon, we lynch Tar. We have 2 scum for just 1 townie mis-lynch, which is always favourable.

The reason you have to go first is, that if you are indeed guilty, we can trust K-Scope as a cop. Lynching K-Scope first, finding out he's telling truth, and then lynching you means that we lynch a Cop for a Scum which is not a good thing, IMO.

On post 564, I said of SirTornado: "I also don't like the end of the day when Fonz defended sirtornado a bunch and seemed to scold him for asking to be NKed by ABR."

And I have already responded to this saying I don't like the way Fonz defended me either. And, his defence of me counts to nothing at all because it was quite clear ABR was the play of the day. I was in absolutely no danger to be defended.

[Sir Tornado]

3. Lynch Kscope, he comes up town. Lynch me tomorrow. But trust me, this won't happen.

He won't just turn up town. He'll turn up cop. You want us to exchange a cop over scum?

It's you who are being illogical and are using crap logic.

Vote: bobbyplump

[Sir Tornado]

2) You're killing the MVP of this game thus far. I've caught one SK (TSQ), one scum (Kscope), have a plan to verify Tar today (lynching Kscope to find out if he is goon or GF), and I have my sights on a couple other probable scum.

lol, I have a plan to verify K-Scope today. Lynch you.

You turn up scum, we trust K-Scope (largely because he got your right AND Tar got an innocent on him).

You turn up town, K-Scope is obviously scum.

[Sir Tornado]

Wait till Tar gets back before voting Bobby out...

[Sir Tornado]

I'm back (mostly), but I'll need some time for a close reread.

I guess if we hammer tomorrow Tar will be in time for his night choice

Have I already deployed my Hand? No matter -

HoS: Hjallti

. Suggesting a hammar with no guilty investigations, a Cop who's V/LA, and les than a week of discussion is seriously scummy.

Quick notes: Given what I've seen to date, I'd prefer a Khelvaster lynch over a Bobby lynch right now , and I'm getting

extremely

concerned with how quickly the days are going.

Wait a minute...

K-Scope has found Bobby guilty. You are saying we should we ignore that and go for Khelvaster? Why?

[Sir Tornado]

Nothing is forgotten in this game Khelvaster.

[Sir Tornado]

SirTornado – I FoSed him a long time ago, and still do to this point. First, from his interactions with Fonz. Second, he questioned Tar’s role claim when no one else was. Granted, I agreed that Tar could still be lying, but I didn’t think it was an appropriate time to discuss it. Third, he was the first to come out with Kscope against me, and he came out hard. MAJOR FOS: Sirtornado

This makes me laugh out loud. I think you should check out the first post you made today.

We're doing really well here. Two dead goons and a dead SK. But, as The Wolfe says, let's not start sucking each others popsicles just yet.

Sir Tornado, I'm really on the fence about you. Your interactions with Fonz made me think you could be scum. But today, you come out and say exactly what I was tihnking last night.

For the record, I don't think it's bad to doubt Tar. However, I think it may have been foolish to come out and state it as you did on the second post of the new day. We would be wise to trust him for a little while longer. Or until there is a counter-claim.

Having said all that, though, it seems very plausible to me that the scum tried to kill Tar last night and were blocked.

Newb question: Where I come from, protector roles can't protect the same person on consecutive nights. However, in my first game on this site, the protector could. Is there a general rule on this site on what he/she is allowed to do on consecutive nights?

I don't know if I'll have the time to post anything too substanstive this weekend. I'l lcheck in, but it may be Monday before I post a lot.

How's that for being inconsistent?

And, I will say this for the last time, "I" did not interact with Fonz. The Fonz interacted with me, (that is the defence). You have been harping on about that since forever after that, so let me draw your attention to some of the finer points surrounding that interaction:

1) I did not need to be defended when The Fonz defended me. I was no where near lynch. ABR was the obvious play of the day. Generally, a good player like Fonz wouldn't do it if I was indeed a scum.

2) Even if I was scum with Fonz, I did not need to be defended. I can defend myself quite competently, especially when I am scum, thank you very much.

3) I never defended Fonz at anytime during the game. What Fonz did was a common trick that mafia do, they try to associate themselves with a townie, so that when they do get lynched, the immediate suspicion is cast upon the townie they are defending. Apart from that, there are other advantages of such a ploy, as generally the townie, especially if he is a newbie townie tends to think the person defending him is a town too.

If people are going to accuse everyone a known scum has defended of being scum, then perhaps I should go on defending each and every person the next time I am scum. By your own logic, everyone would be scum, right Bobby?

[Sir Tornado]

Oops. Posted that before I finished.

The point is that, in hindsight, that looks an awful lot like a scumbuddy saying, "Woah, man! Don't kill us here! What if he really is the SK?"

Hmm... well, I guess I completely misread your point there...

There was a reason I asked ABR to NK me... what you must realize, is that I am not a total idiot to try and ask a claimed SK to NK me had I not got a good reason to do so. And, I would definitely not do that when I am mafia regardless of how bad ABR's claim might have been. In case you haven't noticed in my sig, I have a very good survival record in my games, having survived till the end in 4 of my 5 completed games. I am definitely not a fan of suicidal gambits when I am either town or scum.

Inconsistent part:

You said your suspicion of me has decreased after I made that first post today back then. Now, you list that post as suspicious. That's what is inconsistent.

[Sir Tornado]

Well, would I ASK to be NKed if I was mafia? I did not have any incentive to call ABR's bluff if I was indeed mafia. I did have it as town though.

That Fonz said it makes no difference at all. Like I have said about twice before in this thread, I did not like Fonz's statements either.

[Sir Tornado]

Asking to be NKed as mafia makes no less sense than asking to be NKed as town. Scum wants to appear as if they were normal townies. So if you think that's a good town move, why not do that?

Because, ABR has a reputation for being a totally crazy player, and there was a possibility that he was, indeed a SK.

[Sir Tornado]

Xyzzy IS in fact posting in the other games I am with him.

My stand on this issue is known. I really have nothing to say as of now.

[Sir Tornado]

As such, I think we're dealing with one of Bobbyscum, BobbyMiller, or a Mafia Framer.

Oh, no, I don't buy the mafia framer suggestion one bit. It was mostly introduced by Battle Mage, who is a mafia; he wouldn't have introduced it had there been a real mafia framer in the game. IMO, BM made that suggestion because, perhaps a mafia was planning to claim cop sometime, and that the suggestion of there being a mafia framer would assist that person.

[Sir Tornado]

MOD

Samruc had requested to be replaced

[Sir Tornado]

Does the mod actually care about this game anymore?

[Sir Tornado]

Has anyone tried PM-ing the mods?

Yeah. I have prodded Blahgo.

[Sir Tornado]

Just one thing... what happens if K-scope is actually the cop?

You realize that we are lynching a person, who has claimed cop, who has been confirmed innocent by another claimed cop, and on the behest of a person on whom the claimed cop being lynched has claimed a guilty verdict on. I honestly can't believe the town is doing this. However, since a KScope lynch looks inevitable now, I would most certainly be voting for Bobby tomorrow in case KScope turns up cop (which I really believe he is)

Also, I find some of the reasons for justifying KScope lynch are terrible. For example, Guzame's:

This seems like enough reason to lynch Kaleidoscope to me.
Even if he is a cop,he will just be trying to get lynched from this point,so he's not any more useful than a townie,less useful even,since a townie would atleast try to help the town.
(Yeah,I'm still here)

Which is just ridiculous. We don't want to be lynching unhelpful townies, not the least the unhelpful person who'd claimed cop. We want to be lynching scum.

KScope's behaviour reminds me of the way I play when I am behind on games (or simply bored with it), and more often than not, I am townie in those cases.

I would like the town to address one question:

1) What makes you think K-Scope is scum?
2) Is unhelpfulness scummy?
3) Has K-Scope dropped any actual scum tells?

atm, I suspect Aimee and Undo. Niv's post 996 was terrible and very anti-town.

My vote stays on Tar, because I do not want to lynch a person who has claimed cop, and who's been claimed innocent by another claimed cop, over a person on whom the cop has claimed a guilty verdict on, and who claims to be a vanilla townie. I can't understand the logic behind such a decision.

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP: In my last post, I meant my vote stays on

Bobby

[Sir Tornado]

I notice that no one has responded to this at all. Let me make this more clear:

If you have claimed pro-town cop, and you have a guilty on someone else, there is absolutely no logic in self-voting.

I'm having trouble conceptualising how people can argue against this.

So, you tell me the logic behind a person investigated innocent by a claimed cop self voting.

[Sir Tornado]

And, if Bobby comes town and K Scope is not the GF, but an ordinary goon, then we get another scum (Tarhalindur)

[Sir Tornado]

That's stupid, Sir T. You can also find out about Tar by lynching Kscope today.

And, what happens when K-Scope turns out to be a cop? We lose all future investigation results he might have produced for us.

[Sir Tornado]

Niv... we are quite likely to have 2 cops in a 28 player game.

[Sir Tornado]

Aimee: That was what I have been saying all day. Why does no one understand that simple piece of logic?

[Sir Tornado]

Tar, the most likely setup atm is you being scum with K-scope and Sir T. If we lynch K-scope to be guilty, that leads us to you and Sir T. The gain from a guilty K-scope is much greater than that of a guilty Bobby, while an innocent K-scope is the same as an innocent Bobby.

This is utter nonsense You are basically

hoping

KScope turns out guilty and are voting him with that hope. Also, your reasoning is seriously flawed:

Also, you talk about gains... mind paying attention to the losses? A mislynch of a cop is way too disastrous than a mislynch of a vanilla townie, especially when the other person becomes a confirmed scum in case of mislynch. In fact, Bobby might be playing for a cop mislynch if he is the scum.

[Sir Tornado]

Well, i never thought of it like that. i just kept going on K cant be town. i guess that if we lynch Bobby today, then we can have the same debate on K tomorow. Not like were in lyol or something. however i think that the only thing that would confrim K in my mind is if Bobby is a miller. I guess logic says UnVote K, Vote Bobby. however muh i hate the play of K.

Funny. I think I posted something to that effect weeks ago. How come you never thought it like that before?

[Sir Tornado]

For people still not convinced (if any) as to why I believe K-Scope's claim as cop.

K-Scope had just been confirmed as a townie by a claimed cop. He was, I think out of the hot seat. At that juncture, he decides to claim cop and claim Bobby as guilty.

Now, if K-Scope is lying about his claim and is scum, there was no reason for him to lie. He was not pressurized into the claim or anything. And, bobby's argument that he was the MVP of the game for the town doesn't hold true because if mafia wanted to get rid of bobby, they could have simply night killed him instead of having to play this way.

If K-Scope is not the cop, and he's mafia, there are two possibilities to be considered:

1) He is Godfather. If that is the case, then it is incredibly stupid play on his part. A godfather is quite powerful for the scum, and there is only one of them in one scum group. Getting rid of a Godfather so early in the game is a very good result for the town

2) He is Goon. This is even better. Because if he turns out to be a goon, Tarhalindur was lying about his claim. We get to lynch 2 mafia (and, since 2 are already dead, we get 4 scum inside 6 days)

Both the scenarios are extremely disadvantageous for the scum. I don't think the scum would go to that extent just to get rid of Bobby, especially when they could just NK him the next night or so.

One more thing:

Do not believe in any crap about Mafia framer role should Bobby come out innocent

. Remember that the idea of the mafia framer was planted into the game by BM, who is a known scum. Mafia framer role is extremely rare and should NOT be allowed to be used as a defence by any claimed cop in this game. If Bobby comes out innocent, lynch K-Scope tomorrow. If K-Scope comes up as a mafia goon, lynch Tarhalindur the day after that.

Or, come to think of it, if Bobby comes up innocent, it is a good idea for a vig (we should have a vig in a game of this size) to vig K-Scope over the night and go after Tar if he is a goon.

[Sir Tornado]

I think Tar needs to be protected regardless of Bobby's allignment.

Remember, that Tar hasn't fingered Bobby as scum. K-Scope has. And, unless K-Scope comes up guilty as a non-godfather mafia, I think Tar's claim is completely valid.

[Sir Tornado]

Before we lynch Aimee, I want to get the mafia GF.

vote KScope

We'll take out Aimee tomorrow.

I think I know who the mafia is. Check out the people dithering on bobby lynch, which was the most logical lynch. I am positive that they are scum.

[Sir Tornado]

Looking back at the Bobby wagon, my scum list consists of:

Top suspect: K-Scope

Other suspects

1) Aimee
2) Undo
3) Guzame
4) Honary Hitchhiker
5) Niv
6) Khelvaster

I am positive that we have at least 4-5 Mafia in that list of 6.

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP

Looking back at the Bobby wagon, my scum list consists of:

I meant to say: Looking at the

K-Scope wagon

.

[Sir Tornado]

KScope... why did you "make" up the claim?
'
Even if you did, why should we trust a single word you utter henceforth?

[Sir Tornado]

How can you investigate Aimee town when Tar has investigated Aimee scum? Are you being obtuse on purpose?

Why are there still people who are NOT voting for K-Scope?

[Sir Tornado]

Vote Aimee

[Sir Tornado]

I think we need a lot of prods/replacements, seeing as only a few people are actually posting. When there aren't enough number of people to vote out a confirmed scum, you

know

that there is something drastically wrong with the players.

[Sir Tornado]

I'd rather you put me at the top of that list Tar. I can escape your suspicion more quickly that way.

[Sir Tornado]

Er... you mean to say Pie does not have the setup? Funny... I thought ALL setups were first cleared with the List mod before approval for Large Normal games.

[Sir Tornado]

Mod, can we have a deadline?

[Sir Tornado]

Good luck finding 9 replacements Jordan!

[Sir Tornado]

I was townie, vanilla.

[Sir Tornado]

Btw, instead of abandoning, can we declare this a Jester victory? ABR did win.

[Sir Tornado]

I was vanilla.

[Sir Tornado]

Well... in a 28 player game with a Jester and a SK, I would expect about 6-7 scum...

1) K-Scope
2) BM
3) The Fonz
4) Aimee
5) Xyzzy?


There must be at least 2-3 more scum.

[Sir Tornado]

All in all, the setup was heavily pro-town, unless there was something more to it... no wonder the scum got battered so soon!

(Some people might need to change their sigs now that this game is over)