Mafia 67 - Abandoned!

[Tarhalindur]

Original Roll String: 1d27

1 27-Sided Dice: (23) = 23

[Tarhalindur]

Random

Vote: Aimee

[Tarhalindur]

Unvote, Vote: Albert B. Rampage

because Albert really *is* the play for today.

[Tarhalindur]

Actually, we should make a policy lynch.

I really don't mind lynching BM this early. It will probably save us a lot of problems later. Unvote, vote BM

I have to agree with TSQ here - making a pure policy lynch on Day 1 is a bad idea, as it leaves us with very little idea of who the scum are (unless BM himself is scum). Or is that what you want?

O.K. I think it would be a good idea to pressure lurkers.

IMO, in a game as large as this we should definitely wait a few more days before going on any form of lurker hunt. There may well be players who haven't even seen the thread yet (especially given the size of the game and the amount of time blagho needed to get the thread up and running).

[Tarhalindur]

We should all put our votes on lurkers for now. And as you can see, I'm not lurking.

Is it just me, or is this post incredibly scummy?

[Tarhalindur]

Well there are a lot of votes on me for no reason. It would be important for them to put their votes where it counts.

Last I heard, the town's job is to kill scum, not to kill lurkers... and while you're not one of the latter, my gut is telling me that there's a very good chance that you're one of the former.

[Tarhalindur]

O.K. I think it would be a good idea to pressure lurkers.

We should all put our votes on lurkers for now. And as you can see, I'm not lurking.

Well there are a lot of votes on me for no reason. It would be important for them to put their votes where it counts.

What ? That's absolutely ridiculous. All I said was it would be more beneficial to take off votes of me. What are you hoping for, a mislynch ? FoS Tar

Don't make me turn that into a vote...

From what I see, you're trying to deflect attention from yourself by calling for a lurker hunt. That doesn't strike me as a pro-town reaction to a bandwagon, especially a random bandwagon - indeed, it reeks of deflection by squirming scum.

I think that the bandwagon on you has merit, and I want you in the center of attention, where I think you belong.

[Tarhalindur]

Vote Tarhalindur

I encourage everyone to vote Tar as well, as he has effectively proven himself to be scum with the latest of his ramblings.

OMGUS, anyone?

[IMO, in a game as large as this we should definitely wait a few more days before going on any form of lurker hunt. There may well be players who haven't even seen the thread yet (especially given the size of the game and the amount of time blagho needed to get the thread up and running).

This doesn't even begin to make sense; would you rather the lurkers catch up to us when we are at page 17, or at page 7 ? Or maybe they are scum trying to avoid attention. Maybe your scum with them and are trying to defend your "friends".

Two problems here:

1) The thread has only been up since Sunday. We may have players who haven't even seen the thread yet.
2) IMO, unlike prods, voting for lurkers is not an acceptable way to get them to post. If someone hasn't been looking at the thread, then they aren't going to post in it, regardless of how many votes they have. (This makes inactive lurkers an easy target for scum - since they won't post to defend themselves, scum can get lurkers lynched without incurring too much suspicion.)

Last I heard, the town's job is to kill scum, not to kill lurkers... and while you're not one of the latter, my gut is telling me that there's a very good chance that you're one of the former.

Again defending lurkers. Pfft. I am not advocating lynching all the lurkers, just to put your votes somewhere more strategical than on me.

... and defending lurkers - particularly inactive lurkers - is a bad thing why, exactly? Being inactive can get you replaced, but it shouldn't get you lynched.

Also, that "put your votes somewhere more strategical than on me" comments seems incredibly scummy to me. My vote is already where I think it can do the most good.

[Tarhalindur]

QFT

lol this is just stupid to have such a big bandwagon on day 1..

Um, unless we want to No Lynch (BAD IDEA) we *have* to have at least one large bandwagon on Day 1...

theopor_COD is my friend, I wouldn't have killed him. BM...shh. Anyway, what does everyone think of the TSQ and Fonz exchange ?

I'm seeing WIFOM (and flawed WIFOM to boot - there was also a Gorrad NK, you know), and (IMO) blatant deflection onto TSQ/The Fonz.

Um, I think this is all gibberish. I refuse to believe I will by lynched on such idiotic terms. What started as a bad joke has deteriorated into a bandwagon on a pro-town individual, and I will not stand for it.

Idiotic terms? I think not. I can see several good reasons for a bandwagon on you: deflection, OMGUS, appeals to emotion, lurker hunting (a weak scumtell, but a scumtell nonetheless), shoddy/nonexistent reasoning, a clear desire to get people on your side, and a tendency to place far too much value on your own head. I fail to see how this play helps the town.

Fine, don't pressure lurkers for all I care. Do what you want. Why are you keeping your vote on me ? Because I tried to move the town in a direction I view as positive ? I'm not trying to be OMGUSsy here, but realistic. Most of you don't even know why your voting for me. Bah.

Tell me, why do you think lurker hunting helps the town find scum? If it doesn't, then why were you trying to move the town in a direction that doesn't help the town fulfill its win condition?

In my opinion, your play doesn't make sense from a town perspective - in particular, you seem to be placing FAR too much value on your own head, to the extent that it seems you'd rather go on a lurker lynch than accept the miniscule risk of getting lynched from a (formerly) random bandwagon. IMO, a pro-town player should *always* be willing to sacrifice their life if it's the best way to help the town find the scum. Given this, it is my opinion that your (apparent) emphasis on staying alive makes sense only if you're scum or some kind of neutral - i.e, a role where playing to survive helps you fulfill your win condition.

[Tarhalindur]

Tarhalindur Note: I've just got word that I'm going to be on vacation from August 4-12. I'm 90% sure that I'll have no Internet access at that time.

Mod

, if that's going to be a problem then you should probably start looking for a (temporary?) replacement.

[Tarhalindur]

Is there a bandwagon on Albert? Horray!

Vote: Albert

Your lack of reasoning disturbs me. Random voting is over, you know...

FoS: undo

[Tarhalindur]

I've been having trouble deciding what I want to do with Albert. On the one hand, I do not believe his pro-town softclaim - he seems to be placing far more emphasis on staying alive than on trying to hunt scum, and IMO that simply doesn't make sense from a pro-town perspective. On the other hand, I really don't like how several people on his wagon simply hopped on with little to no reasoning - it reeks of scum trying to get a quicklynch on someone who isn't in their mafia group.

In my opinion, the best explanation for this is that Albert is some kind of neutral, probably Survivor or SK. (It's also possible that Albert is misguided town, or that Albert is mafia and the people on his wagon are from a second mafia, but IMO these hypotheses don't fit quite as well as the Albert=neutral hypothesis.)

I don't see any reason to neutral-hunt this early in the game when we could be catching Mafia, so

Unvote, HoS: Albert B. Rampage

I need to look over the thread again ASAP, taking a close look at everyone who hopped onto the Albert wagon with little reasoning.

[Tarhalindur]

Guys, unless I'm very much mistaken we're already in twilight. Albert was at lynch -2 when KScope and Khelvaster voted for him (and AFAICT neither were voting beforehand).

The KScope/Khelvaster hammar looks mighty suspicious in my eyes (especially since I believe Albert's SK claim). I'll need to take a closer look at those two tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

I have a question, and I want everyone to answer it (preferably with reasons):

Do you think Battle Mage is town, scum, or neutral?

If you don't mind, I'd like to be the last person to answer this question.

[Tarhalindur]

Jordan, TSQ, care to answer my question?

[Tarhalindur]

Tar, repeat the question?

Do you think Battle Mage is town, scum, or neutral? (Preferably with reasons)

[Tarhalindur]

whoa I'm neglecting this game.

May I recommend checking the player list on the front page?

[Tarhalindur]

Lynching the jester was stupid.

Uh, MoS, you got NK'ed last night...

Tar, can you share your thoughts on BM now? I think I may know what you are going to say, but I'm on pins and needles here.

I was rather hoping to get a few more answers from people (particularly Aimee, undo, SorintheSeeker, KScope, and Jman) before I revealed my thoughts, to be honest. (I'd really prefer to be the last person to comment on BM if at all possible.)

Everyone: Do you think Battle Mage is town, neutral, or scum? (reasons preferred)

Mod: Can we have a

Mod Prod

on Hjallti, Lateralus, xyzzy, Romanus, zakk-status, Khelvaster, and Honary Hitchhiker (who should be back from vacation in the near future)?

[Tarhalindur]

Honestly, at this point I'm liking Bobby's arguments more than I like TSQ's. My gut feeling is that Bobby's arguments are the kind of arguments that a newb town player would make, while TSQ's arguments are beginning to ping my scumdar (along with a couple of other things I noticed during Day 1).

Tarhalindur Note:

3. You started arguing with Fonz about a non-game-related thing (him saying 'lalalala' to ABR). I've found that when scum tend to argue, they argue about non game-related things to make it look like they are arguing while really not.

This is a good argument, but you're using it against the wrong player. TSQ wasn't arguing with The Fonz about past games; Battle Mage was.

[Tarhalindur]

TSQ, Is that true? I'll have to modkill you if it is.

I can't risk the day ending without me revealing my information, so I can't risk holding back my information on Battle Mage any longer.

I'm a Cop. I'm mod-confirmed sane and get exact alignments. I got a neutral result on Albert N1 (hence my early wagon on him). I targetted Battle Mage last night.

Battle Mage is Mafia.

Vote: Battle Mage
LOCK ON: Battle Mage

[Tarhalindur]

Jordan is Town.

Vote: Battle Mage, LOCK ON: Battle Mage

(you know why)

HoS: Guzame, HoS: Skruffs

for their reactions to my questioning re: BM yesterday.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: Wait, Skruffs is dead...

UnHos: Skruffs

TSQ, Is that true? I'll have to modkill you if it is.

I can't risk the day ending without me revealing my information, so I can't risk holding back my information on Battle Mage any longer.

I'm a Cop. I'm mod-confirmed sane and get exact alignments. I got a neutral result on Albert N1 (hence my early wagon on him). I targetted Battle Mage last night.

Battle Mage is Mafia.

Vote: Battle Mage
LOCK ON: Battle Mage

On a second read, this seems to be a bit strange. Do cops get alignments? Or do they get the information as to whether the player is scum or not?

Well, we'll find out whether Tar is telling the truth or not soon enough.

From what I can tell, I get Mafia/neutral/town (neutral is known due to my Albert investigation). Given my guaranteed sanity, I'm guessing there's also some kind of non-Sane cop out there.

[Tarhalindur]

There are only 3 possibilities, IMO: BM is scum, BM is a Miller, or there's a Mafia Framer. On the balance, I believe that #1 is the most likely.

This doesn't matter, because it looks like StS just took away my chance to consider the options.

[Tarhalindur]

I investigated KScope last night. He's Town.

I'm going to be away with little or no access until the 12th. Please, don't lynch anyone until then.

When I get back, I need to take a much, MUCH closer look at Khelvaster. He was strongly pro-BM day 1, and he's been attacking KScope for the last two days.

Vote: Khelvaster

[Tarhalindur]

Cop sanities are supposed to be revealed after the game is over...

So, how did Tar come to know that he is a sane cop in his role PM? I am not sure I trust Tar all that much... BM's lynch could have been pre-arranged by the scum... but I am not too sure of this.

Meh, I'll have to think this over.

Wishy-washy, anyone?

FoS: SirTornado

[Tarhalindur]

What do you mean by a counter claim?

A counterclaim boils down to someone saying "Hey, he's lying! He can't be the role he claimed, because *I'm* the role he claimed!".

Yeah, I agree it is wishy-washy... but my question still stands.

I don't know why I have confirmed sanity - all I know is that I have confirmation that I am Sane. I suspect that there may be a non-Sane cop out there somewhere, but I can't be sure.

Now, a question for you: Why are you fishing for a modkill?

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

[Tarhalindur]

What do you mean by a counter claim?

A counterclaim boils down to someone saying "Hey, he's lying! He can't be the role he claimed, because *I'm* the role he claimed!".

I know what it means. I meant to ask what did Niv mean by "have a counterclaim" specifically for this game. It is obvious there will be more than one cop, so a counterclaim doesn't really matter.

Yeah, I agree it is wishy-washy... but my question still stands.

I don't know why I have confirmed sanity - all I know is that I have confirmation that I am Sane. I suspect that there may be a non-Sane cop out there somewhere, but I can't be sure.

Now, a question for you: Why are you fishing for a modkill?

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

How am I fishing for a modkill?

You are asking me to elaborate on something when said elaboration would lead directly to a modkill. I have said enough as it is.

That is all.

[Tarhalindur]

Everything is going fantastic. We have two dead mafia, a dead SK, and a jester gone and it's only Day 4. Plus we didn't lose anyone last night. This is amazing.


I see absolutely no reason to doubt Tar, everything he said has been accurate, no one has counterclaimed, and he has led us to get a mafia. Not only that but because he is the cop and no one died last night... it is very probable that a doctor chose to save him and he was chosen by the mafia.


I'm going to have to reread the entire game now that we know two mafia, two humans (kscope + tar), a SK, and a jester. That should provide a lot of information. For now,

FOS: Sir Tornado

as his last posts are incredibly scummy. After I look through everything I'll cast a vote.

I'm enjoying the quick speed of this game so hopefully we can finish another round within a week.

I think this speaks for itself.

Unvote, Vote: SorintheSeeker

I should note right now that if anyone hammars before August 12 for any reason, I will consider it the equivalent of claiming scum.

[Tarhalindur]

And, your last statement worries me a bit... why would you actually need to consider a hammer before 11th a claim for scum if you can investigate that person at night and confirm his alignment?

I think what he means is anyone who hammers quite a bit before the 12th means that, since he has very limited access, if Day 5 breaks before he gets back, he might not have the chance to send in a cop investigation.

Listen to Jordan, people. He speaks the truth.

KScope - No, I don't think that using a cop investigation on you was a bad thing. Also, are you claiming GF?

(That's all for now - I'm cutting my timing close as it is.)

[Tarhalindur]

For the time being, I think we should leave KScope (and Jordan) alone. We can deal with the possibility of KScope/Jordan being GF later.

KScope - By getting a town investigation on you, I've gotten a much better idea of who's likely to be scum. To wit, Tarhalindur's Top 3 Suspects:

Khelvaster: He thought BM was strongly pro-town Day 1, and he's been attacking KScope on and off for since the end of Day 1 (even after a Town investigation).

Sir Tornado: He's been attacking KScope since the end of Day 1, and he's still trying to cast suspicion on me despite new evidence in my favor (BM coming up scum).

Bobbyplump: He's been making the bulk of the arguments against KScope for the last few days, and he tried to direct the cop earlier today.

This will probably be my last post for a few days.

Unvote

due to my access situation.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm back (mostly), but I'll need some time for a close reread.

I guess if we hammer tomorrow Tar will be in time for his night choice

Have I already deployed my Hand? No matter -

HoS: Hjallti

. Suggesting a hammar with no guilty investigations, a Cop who's V/LA, and les than a week of discussion is seriously scummy.

Quick notes: Given what I've seen to date, I'd prefer a Khelvaster lynch over a Bobby lynch right now , and I'm getting

extremely

concerned with how quickly the days are going.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm back (mostly), but I'll need some time for a close reread.

I guess if we hammer tomorrow Tar will be in time for his night choice

Have I already deployed my Hand? No matter -

HoS: Hjallti

. Suggesting a hammar with no guilty investigations, a Cop who's V/LA, and les than a week of discussion is seriously scummy.

Quick notes: Given what I've seen to date, I'd prefer a Khelvaster lynch over a Bobby lynch right now , and I'm getting

extremely

concerned with how quickly the days are going.

Wait a minute...

K-Scope has found Bobby guilty. You are saying we should we ignore that and go for Khelvaster? Why?

Because I only just got back and hadn't noticed KScope's cop claim.

I should note that I remember seeing considerable evidence of a Bobbyplump-Aimee connection before I went on vacation (I'll need time to dig up the specifics), so if Bobby comes up scum Aimee deserves a very close look tomorrow.

Vote: Bobbyplump

[Tarhalindur]

Lack of mod, that's what gives. Methinks I should prod Pie_is_good (he's been around lately).

Personally, I believe that KScope is probably a sane cop, given his claimed investigation results and my Town result on him. As such, I think we're dealing with one of Bobbyscum, BobbyMiller, or a Mafia Framer.

Regardless, Bobbyplump's claimed Townie, so I see harm lynching him: best case scenario, we catch at least 1 scumbag, possibly more; worst case scenario, we lynch a townie and get information about several players (Aimee, Khelvaster, and Sir Tornado in particular).

Seriously, that's not even a bad worst case scenario.

Confirm Vote: Bobbyplump

[Tarhalindur]

Guys, take a moment and think things through. You are proposing that we lynch the claimed cop instead of his guilty (who claimed Townie) why, exactly?

At this point, I believe KScope's claim (and if he's actually a cop, then he's definitely sane). His claimed results make sense, he came up town in my investigation, and his actions don't make much sense for a GF (he'd have to be running a HUGE gambit) if Bobby is town. (KScope

could

be scum bussing a goon, but I think we can ignore that possibility for the time being.) I could get even more confirmation (by investigating JimmyR tonight), but I see no reason to do so at the moment (there are more pressing problems). More to the point, if one of my past investigation targets is, in fact, the GF, I very much doubt it's KScope - IMO, Jordan is a much better candidate for GF than KScope is. We can deal with that possibility later, though.

The other big reason for lynching Bobby now is that Bobby coming up scum would strongly implicate 1-2 other people (these connections could be easily confirmed by a well-placed cop investigation ). Observe:

bobbyplumb: I'm actually very impressed so far with him. I'm getting a real vibe of eagerness and scum-hunting, as well as analysis. He does have some good points, especially with KScope and BM/Tar. I would say he is pro-town at this point.

This set off my scumdar, suggesting a possible Aimee-Bobby connection. (Actually, the entire analysis this came from is scummy as all hell - it reeks of scum trying to appear to find scum.)

bobby, please explain why you want Tar to go after Sir T, since you gave no reasons. Also explain the merits of directing the cop.

This also set off my scumdar - Aimee seems to have a habit of asking other people questions instead of providing her own analysis (most of the time), and she's been asking two players for analysis in particular (Albert, the main target of Day 1, and Bobby, who had no significant pressure on him at the time, IIRC).

Aimee – Probably the most pro-town player I’ve seen in this game. Very solid.

It would seem that Bobby thinks that Aimee is the most pro-town player in the game, and vice versa. Hmm.

Also, the way in which Aimee hopped on the Bobby wagon and hopped off again as soon as another wagon became viable (on a claimed cop, no less) is scummy - bussing, perhaps?

Granted, this isn't much evidence, but my gut is telling me that there is some sort of connection behind this.

FoS: Aimee

The other player who I think is likely scum if Bobby and/or Aimee comes up scum is Khelvaster, mainly due to the following post from Day 1:

Here is an analysis. When I mention post numbers, I mean post numbers when you filter that person's posts only.

Aimee: I really like her. First, she talks about how BM draws scum looking for a d1 quicklynch. Then, she says that lurker hunting is premature. She is urging caution repeatedly, and hasn't gone after anyone specifically. For now, I would say she is definitely town.


Albert: This guy is bad. His first real post is a policy lynch on Battle Mage. Now, although Battle Mage *snip--censored, flaming material*, policy lynching anyone is a really bad idea. He then switches, after getting reprimanded for this, to trying to make a massive anti-lurker bandwagon. After two posts of this, he complains about a BW on him, and OMGUS's Tar. He says Tar's argument that lurkers may not totally be scum is wrong, so we should all BW Tar d1.

Iaretheman votes Albert, and Albert appears to blow up about this. He then threatens that "something bad will happen" to the next person who votes for him. After realizing he might be lynched, he said that his partners might try to bus him if he were scum, and they would be on his wagon. This is WIFOM trying to save scumbuddies later on in-game.

After the BW dies down, Albert makes another revealing post: "I'm not being opportunistic, just putting my vote where it belongs." Uh...sorry, but this is opportunistic. He explains then that this was OMGUS for that person placing his vote on Albert.

Now things get interesting. Although he claims to be Vig, he also claims not to win with the town. He is obviously hiding something, and this makes him dangerous. He then goes back and says he isn't really vig or SK, with a "fishing for reactions" justification for the false claim. His next post asks about SKs allying with town...He says he will kill whoever we want him to kill, but then goes and says he will kill Sir Tornado. There is no reason we should let Albert live as a claimed SK. He doesn't care one way or the other who he kills--we should get rid of him before he kills more townies. We would lynch an SK to save a town. We know there will be one person we must lynch today. Doesn't it make sense to make a lynch we know will be good today, when the chance of hitting a townie is lower than it will be tomorrow? Vote: Albert


Battle Mage: Wow...for the first time he hasn't gone out of his way to make himself get lynched Razz. He talks a whole lot about Ultimatum mafia, and doesn't really contribute much to this game. He gets in a small spat with Fonz about that game, but, from the way BM has acted in other games, it is not a scumtell. BM follows through with Albert suspicions, and votes Albert for that threat he made. Battle Mage still continues with that obnoxious bottom-quoting though >_<. Surprisingly, next post he top-quotes. Wow! He then proceeds to FoS K-scope and Albert, unvoting Albert in the process. BM then outs Fonz on thinking Albert's SK hint was a vig hint.

Battle Mage provides a very, very pro-town view, when others are considering the madness of letting an SK live today. His post 29 is one of the best posts I have seen in this topic so far. He then goes even further, with a great post about how K-scope is screwing around with his logic on the SK. This causes me to FoS: K-scope.
I am getting very pro-town vibes from BM about all this. If we both survive into an endgame, I might push to lynch him just because being pro-town is so out of character for him Razz. Seriously though, I see almost no possible way BM could be scum. His cases against K-scope and ABR make perfect sense. Finger of Town: BM


Bobby: Votes Jordan for "speculation" as to whom the NK was coming from. This is needless--idle speculation isn't a scumtell. Voting for people without a good reason is (aka, bobby). He tried to get a BM bandwagon going, so I feel vaguely that between that and Jordan, and then he said that before today, he never knew who BM was


I am going to go, finishing this up in stages.

Khelvaster really likes BM (known scum) and Aimee (who I'm finding increasingly scummy). Hmm.

FoS: Khelvaster

[Tarhalindur]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote]Scope, have you given up? [/quote]I'm cutting on games and I'm happy to start here. For me, it's a win-win since bobby will turn up scum either way.[/quote]

So, we're basically lynching the claimed cop with an Innocent investigation over the claimed vanilla townie with a Guilty from a claimed cop because the cop is tired of playing?

Seriously, dude, if you're tired of playing just ask the Doc to protect me (the other claimed cop) tonight instead of you (this also should help keep the doc around so that I can get more investigations). I don't care how badly you've been playing, you're still a freaking claimed cop with a freaking Guilty on a freaking claimed vanilla townie. The only logical move in this situation is to lynch the claimed vanilla townie, and I'm getting very suspicious of the people who seem to be claiming otherwise (especially Guzame and Aimee, who I'm already suspicious of for other reasons).

LOCK ON: Bobbyplump

[Tarhalindur]

Why the BobbyPlump lynch is the correct lynch for today:

1) KScope has claimed cop with a guilty on a player who has claimed vanilla townie. I don't care how badly the claimed cop is playing (and KScope has been playing *very* poorly), lynching the claimed cop over his claimed guilty is bad for the town (especially since his target has claimed vanilla).

2) I got a Town result on KScope last night. From my perspective, this rules out most possibilities immediately (he can't be non-Godfather mafia or a neutral, barring mechanics unlikely to be seen in a normal game).

This leaves the following possibilities:

1) Kscope is town and lying
2) KScope is Cop and Bobby is scum
3) KScope is Cop and Bobby is Miller/framed (given KScope's claimed results, if he is a Cop he must be sane).
4) KScope is Mafia Godfather and Bobby is town
5) KScope is Mafia Godfather and Bobby is a goon he's bussing
6) KScope is a non-Godfather Mafia who somehow came up town when I investigated him
7) KScope is some kind of neutral that comes up Town when investigated

Now, let's see which possibilities are plausible and which are not.
Possibilities 1 and 4 are unlikely because they require acts of extreme stupidity (lying as town and sacrificing the GF for a vanilla townie, respectively).
Possibilities 6 is unlikely because this game is in New York, not Theme Park (I've seen a role before which gave a Mafioso GF immunity, but it's definitely not a standard role).
Possibility 7 makes somewhat more sense (KScope's play makes sense if he is Lyncher and Bobby is the Lynchee), but this requires that Bobby be a neutral that comes up town to investigations, which I consider unlikely.

This leaves possibilities 2, 3, and 5 as plausible explanations for KScope's actions, in which case Bobby is either scum or Miller (who should show up as Miller upon death), and either way he should be lynched (even if he's miller, we get a mostly-confirmed sane Cop).

Seriously, if we wind up lynching KScope today, I'm going to be extremely annoyed at the rest of the town. The BobbyPlump lynch is so much better for the town than the KScope lynch that it's not even funny. All the arguments I've seen to the contrary pretty much boil down to appeals to emotion.

I'd Confirm Vote Bobby again, but I'm already Locked On.

LoS: Aimee, Guzame, Khelvaster, Undo

in that order (LoS = Line of Suspicion).

[Tarhalindur]

Niv Would like to ask Tahr:

Does play have no weight on who you lynch?

If play does have weight on who you lynch, we kill K

In most scenarios, yes. Thanks to a combination of KScope's claim, Bobby's claim, and my investigation, this is not one of them.

Let's take a look at how this plays out for the town:

Best case scenario: We lynch Bobby, he's scum. We've got a dead scum and a mostly-confirmed cop.
Worst case scenario: We lynch Bobby, he's town. We get the GF (KScope) tomorrow, hence trading a townie for the GF. Seems like a good trade to me.

Other scenarios worth noting include Bobby as Miller (plausible, still gives us a second mostly-confirmed cop) and Mafia Framer (the most worrying of the lot, but Framer is uncommon enough that I doubt that it's in this game, and considering it is just going to lead us into worlds of WIFOM).

Regardless, if Bobby comes up as non-Miller town (or GF/neutral, for that matter), we lynch KScope tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

I repeat: Scope claimed cop, bobby's got a guilty. At worst we trade a townie for a scum (= probably GF), at best we save a cop.

*Sigh*

Whilst I'm really, really, really sure that KScope is scum, the above quote is 100% correct.

If you recognize that this logic is correct, then why are you still voting KScope?

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not going to rule out the possibility that KScope is GF bussing one of his goons at this time - IMO, it's a distinct possibility, especially given how KScope interacted with Bobby Day 1. I am, however, going to ignore the "KScope is GF bussing one of his goons" possibility for today,

because that possibility has no bearing on today's lynch

.

Think about it.

If KScope is GF bussing a goon, then Bobby is scum.
If KScope is a cop with a guilty on Bobby, then Bobby is (probably) scum.

It doesn't matter whether Bobby is GF or cop, Bobby should come up scum either way. Lynching scum sounds like a good idea to me.

(Note: There are two main ways in which Bobby could come up town: Bobby is Miller, and KScope as GF claiming guilty on a townie. These can be ignored, as both of these are good for town - if Bobby is Miller, then we trade the Miller for an all-but-confirmed cop [it's highly unlikely that scum would know the Miller's identity], and if KScope is GF claiming guilty on a vanilla townie [Bobby] then we trade a vanilla townie for the GF, a very good trade for town.)

I don't see how we are "quite likely" to have two sane cops in a 28 player game. I haven't been around this site for a long time, but I looked through some old games and couldn't find a single one where there were two cops.

Anyone have an example?

I've seen Cop and backup Cop if the original dies. But never two sane cops.

Just one example, please.

PS2SUX! Mafia

Next question?

[Tarhalindur]

I'm going to make one request: If Bobby comes up scum, I'd like the Doc to protect me again tonight, for two reasons:

1) There is a distinct possibility that KScope is mafia Godfather busing a goon. If KScope is a Godfather, then protecting him is a bad idea, and if KScope is a Cop the mafia might decide to leave him alive in an attempt to get a mislynch.
2) I really, really want to get in my next investigation. If I get a guilty tonight, I think that I will catch multiple scum (through my guilty and that player's connections).

[Tarhalindur]

Well seeing the past statements the most logical choice would be Bobbyplump. However I still have uncertainty of K-scopes role postion even if Bobbyplump where to turn up scum. We risk a townie or a cop... In all honesty I think Bobby should be lynched. However I think I'll keep my vote on K-scope since I dislike his plays and logic.

So, you think that Bobby should be lynched... but you're keeping your vote on KScope?

HoS: Honary Hitchhiker

Add Honary Hitchhiker to LoS (current LoS: Khelvaster, Undo, Guzame, Aimee, Honary Hitchhiker)

[Tarhalindur]

Guess what? I got a guilty last night.

Vote: Aimee
LOCK ON: Aimee

Major FoS: Guzame, Major FoS: Khelvaster

for Aimee connections.

[Tarhalindur]

Wait, you're right. KScope goes first. (I missed that "alignment: pro-town" in the lynch scene.)

Aimee Lock-On no longer valid due to bigger concerns.

Unvote, Vote: KScope
LOCK ON: KScope

Aimee dies tomorrow.

[Tarhalindur]

There's one thing I'd like to check before we proceed with the KScope lynch.

[b\Mod: Can you give us any further information about Bobby's rolename?[/b]

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP:

Mod: Can you give us any further information about Bobby's rolename?

[Tarhalindur]

You claimed that Bobbyplump was guilty, and he came up innocent. As far as we can tell, Bobby was not a Miller (and without blahgo, the only way to determine otherwise involves lynching you). Ergo, you are almost certainly lying scum, and probably Mafia Godfather to boot.

[Tarhalindur]

Methinks it's because he's scum and he didn't want to get caught in any more lies.

[Tarhalindur]

Can we hammer lying KScope-scum already?

[Tarhalindur]

I count only 10 votes. We need 1 more vote for KScope, then we can nuke this place from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Tarhalindur]

That's a lynch for sure.

Prodding Pie now.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm going to change things up seeing as Jordan got nuked. I got an Innocent last night, but I will not reveal who unless said person is in danger of getting lynched or the Doc dies.

Also...

Vote: Aimee
LOCK ON: Aimee

Reasons should be obvious.

[Tarhalindur]

Can we get a MASS PROD please?

[Tarhalindur]

I think we need a lot of prods/replacements, seeing as only a few people are actually posting. When there aren't enough number of people to vote out a confirmed scum, you

know

that there is something drastically wrong with the players.

Problem is, I'm under the impression that Pie is missing their lurkers' roles, and as such can't really replace them.

I'd rather see modkills than see this game die, tbh.

Prodding Pie now.

[Tarhalindur]

Right now, my top candidates for Aimee's scumbuddies are Guzame, undo, and Sir Tornado, in that order, with JimmyR an outside candidate.

[Tarhalindur]

You still didn't answer my question. What did I do to get so suspicious?

Why Guzame is probably scum, part 1:

Vote: Tarhalindur

for trying to focus everyone's attention at BM.

When I asked everyone for their opinions on Battle Mage, you responded by attacking me for asking for your opinion in the first place. This looks like scum defending his buddy to me.

Why Guzame is scummy, part 2:

FoS: Guzame

Please explain how this is even scummy, and then how it became vote-worthy.

Guzame: He labelled ABR as "scummy", but didn't say anything else about his vote. He seems to have gotten lucky since he random-voted ABR, yet didn't do much else. I find his vote on Day 2 of Tarhalindur incredibly scummy, and would probably call this a link towards BM here. Why was it scummy for Tar to focus attention on BM?

Frankly, Aimee's comments about you give me the very strong impression that she is your scumbuddy. In particular, Aimee FoS'es you but follows up on those suspicions - this looks like a textbook case of the FoS (Friend of Scum) tell.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not sure whether Pie has the setup or not - he explicitly said that he did not have the roles from blahgo when he took over modding (which is why he asked us to send in our roles), but that may have changed since.

[Tarhalindur]

You're twisting my words here,as since,unless I'm terribly mistaken,I called you scummy for trying to lead the town,which allways seems as a scummy thing to do to me,and isn't close to asking for an opinion.

But you didn't say that when I asked for your opinion - instead, you simply voted me "for trying to focus everybody's attention on Battle Mage", which doesn't necessarily imply that you were voting me for (supposedly) leading the town. For example, I interpreted this as you trying to get attention off of Battle Mage and onto the person accusing him, which is scummy (especially since I already had a guilty on BM).

As for Aimee,why would she FoS her "scumbuddy" to get some credibility,when nobody was even accusing her of being scum back then?

Simple - Aimee could have been distancing.

[Tarhalindur]

We cannot lynch without either another replacement or a bunch of modkills.

If we can't get either, than this game is already abandoned.

Prodding Pie (again...).

[Tarhalindur]

Either we need *another* mod or the game is pretty much mod abandoned.

[Tarhalindur]

We require either more players or lots of modkills.

I'm hoping for the former.

[Tarhalindur]

EBWOP: Just in case, can we have

Mod Prods for everyone who is not voting

?

[Tarhalindur]

replacement update: I don't have the player list, and blahgo hasn't returned my PMs. Once I know what roles need replacing, the replacements will be implimented. I have informed both the people who volunteered to replace of this, and they're both still on board.

Good luck.

[Tarhalindur]

Excellent. Maybe we can get this show on the road.

[Tarhalindur]

No, and I get the impression Pie doesn't, which, if true, would be a real kick in the balls, since Blahgo seems to have left the site.

Maybe one of the list mods has the setup?

If nothing else, you could resort to modkills or randomly redistribute the unknown roles (assuming you have the unknown roles, that is)...

[Tarhalindur]

Here's the infamous role PM that kept getting brought up:

You are the Cop, and you can tell good from bad. Each Night, you may send a player's name to me; I will let you know if your investigation shows that they are Mafia or Town. You win if the scum are eliminated, so choose wisely at Night, and lynch well during the Day. You are 100% sane.

Hjallti's PM probably looks similar.

Results:

N1: Albert = pro-self
N2: Battle Mage = mafia
N3: Jordan = townie
N4: KScope = innocent*
N5: Aimee = guilty
N6: Khelvaster = innocent

N7 target would have been Guzame.

* - (I recognized that this might be a GF result, but BP lynch was still correct)

[Tarhalindur]

Well i was the town doctor. Howd i do?

You were doc? Wow... I actually thought Khelvaster was probably the doc, given his play and my investigation.

Then again, you didn't get NK'ed and stayed completely off my radar, so good job.

You docced me on the no-kill night, right?

[Tarhalindur]

You got pro-self for me ?

Albert is pro-self.

Yep. Made your job as Jester a lot easier, since you were going to be lynched D1 (even without your claim) if I had anything to say about it.

[Tarhalindur]

Who were the other scum of your team

I would like to know this as well... besides KScope and Aimee, of course...

[Tarhalindur]

I had really fun with this game, and I thought we were winning...

I was : a 100% sane cop. I got some investigations equal with Tar, but also three others. Was it a good idea to actually already give clues in the thread in case I would be NK-d?

Did you see the clues? The only scum I investigated was Battle Mage Night 0. I was hesitant to share, when suddenly Albert jested his way out, and afterwards Tar claimed cop with the same investigation, so I had no reason to claim.

You'd investigated undo, hadn't you? Something about that "I don't think Khel or undo are scum" combined with my innocent on Khel gave me that impression.

[Tarhalindur]

Oops.

Would have wasted an investigation there.

[Tarhalindur]

Whoa. I investigated 3 mafia out of 5 AND an anti-town neutral? I likes.

[Tarhalindur]

Maybe there was another scumgroup where all the members failed to kill due to inactivity?

Only possibility that makes sense to me.