Large Normal 202 - Flavorful Mafia - Game Over!

[Avagantimos]

Hi Avagantimos

Hi yourself. Initial thoughts coming in a bit. I need to organize them a bit. Lots of jokey stuff I need to sort out from the serious things.

[Avagantimos]

The only stuff I have a heavy opinion on right now revolves around the LUV wagon, and people's response to his claim.

Let me take a stab at this:

page 1: fire is town, ali tries too hard, trans prob scum
page 2: lickety is newbtown
page 3: creature prob scum, fire's 59 is bad
page 4: trans' 77 is bad, 79 is sick burn,
page 5: lil prob scum
page 6: aron town
page 7: meh
page 8: eddie prob town
page 9: ?
page 10: meh, ali town I guess
page 11: dont understand the ali/aron thing
page 12: meh
page 13: lil's 300 trying to look casual, is scum
page 14: ditto 341

VOTE: Lil

The cases are garbage. All the cases. But LuV is tonally off. He's trying to emoticon and joke his way into the realm of carefree town. It works for Ali, and maybe even for eddie and fire, but not this guy.

I think this read on LUV makes sense. When I read it, I wanted to vote for LUV.

I'm not bluffing. The wagon pissed me off and if town loses because of it, so be it. People need to stop acting like they can read me and stop pushing NAI reasons.

This post, and his claim, seemed like genuine frustrated town to me. It's the first thing he posted in the game that felt like it probably couldn't have come from scum. So while I townread LUV for this, I still townread Lowell for pushing it, because before this post, LUV looked like a good wagon.

Spoiler: Transcend & Alisae

Scum on your wagon is either Creature or Lowell. I'll sort those two later.

Lowell I could see being scum.

okay alisae let's play a game

VOTE: Lowell

VOTE: Lowell
Challenge Accepted.

VOTE: Alisae

ah but it is a giant trap that you've fallen into

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

jokes

VOTE: Lowell

VOTE: lowell

alisae and transcend. lets make a pact to never vote each other. deal?

I don't like this entire interaction. I think there's an attempt here to turn the LUV wagon into a counterwagon on Lowell, and I think there's at least one scum among Transcend, Alisae, and gerryoat.

tldr, Lowell's town, LUV is town, the votes on Lowell are bad.
VOTE: Transcend

[Avagantimos]

Avagantimos sounds like Infinity 324 for me

I don't know who that is, so I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

[Avagantimos]

Are you an alt?

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I've never played with Infinity 324.

[Avagantimos]

Are you an alt?

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure I've never played with Infinity 324.

Who's your main?

What's the point of having an alt at all if I tell you my main?

[Avagantimos]

tldr, Lowell's town, LUV is town, the votes on Lowell are bad.

I really don't think you understand how opportunistic that LUV vote was.

I understand exactly how opportunistic it was. It wasn't.

Let's look at the other votes on that wagon.

Spoiler: Firebringer

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I want a 1v1 between me and uzi, because I think it would be interesting.
Also I want to know how is day was, as I PUSH A WAGON ON HIM!

Uzi, how you doing?

VOTE: LUV

I'M SERIOUS THIS IS SCUM BTW FMMMM SHEEP ME BOOBIES

I WILL FOLLOW THIS PERSON FOREVER!
VOTE: LUV

Spoiler: Creature

What wagon is bigger?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Spoiler: Chickadee

Sup guys....

I'm totes town. Totes.

Also, I'm still reading, as I just got home from work.

I'm really really down on seeing Chickadee and LUV fight!

Ok

VOTE: LUV

Spoiler: Eddie Cane

VOTE: LUV

I'M SERIOUS THIS IS SCUM BTW FMMMM SHEEP ME BOOBIES

Spoiler: gerryoat

im pr dont lynch me

VOTE: luv

did i hammer?

There's obviously more context to it than that. I grabbed those quotes mostly for humour purposes, but seriously, go back and read the context under which Lowell placed his vote. He saw a wagon building on LUV, explained why that wagon was scummy, and put his vote there, when other people, before and after him, voted LUV without sticking their neck out by explaining why. Obviously not all of those players are scum. A lot of this game has been joking around so far, and LUV is essentially an RVS wagon, but it didn't build out of nothing. There was a kernel of scuminess in LUV's play.

Now let's read Lowell's vote:

Spoiler: Lowell

Let me take a stab at this:

page 1: fire is town, ali tries too hard, trans prob scum
page 2: lickety is newbtown
page 3: creature prob scum, fire's 59 is bad
page 4: trans' 77 is bad, 79 is sick burn,
page 5: lil prob scum
page 6: aron town
page 7: meh
page 8: eddie prob town
page 9: ?
page 10: meh, ali town I guess
page 11: dont understand the ali/aron thing
page 12: meh
page 13: lil's 300 trying to look casual, is scum
page 14: ditto 341

VOTE: Lil

The cases are garbage. All the cases. But LuV is tonally off. He's trying to emoticon and joke his way into the realm of carefree town. It works for Ali, and maybe even for eddie and fire, but not this guy.

I know that Lowell isn't an idiot. The first "real" wagon of the day is unlikely to be the lynch, especially one real life day in to the game when a number of people haven't even posted. If you think his vote was opportunistic scum, rather than town trying to sort people, you're not paying attention.

[Avagantimos]

He saw a wagon building on LUV, explained why that wagon was scummy, and put his vote there, when other people, before and after him, voted LUV without sticking their neck out by explaining why.

Hold up. You're basicly saying here "This wagon is hell scummy, but I'M GONNA JOIN IT ANYWAYS!"
Okay yeah sure, Lowell explained it, but the thing is wouldn't scum like to justify their vote anyways?

PEDIT: "He saw a wagon building on LUV, explained why LUV was scummy, and put his vote there...."

Obviously he didn't explain why the people on the wagon were scummy, he explained why the wagon was for a scummy person.

[Avagantimos]

Okay yeah sure, Lowell explained it, but the thing is wouldn't scum like to justify their vote anyways?

You called the vote opportunistic. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that opportunistic scum wouldn't be the only person presenting a real case on lynching town within the first 24 hours of playing the game. If the wagon succeeds, and LUV flips town, it makes Lowell the most suspicious person on the wagon. Essentially, the only way for Lowell to be scum here is if he's bussing or a colossal moron.

[Avagantimos]

You're basicly raising a "Lynch all Lurkers" PL. Gotcha.

We pressure them:
1. They respond, we sort them.
1a. If they manage to somehow be town, we sorted them.
1b. If we're still in doubt or think they're scum, pressure them more or just lynch.
2. They don't respond, we lynch them because town wouldn't refuse to respond.

While I agree with the sentiment here, I find more often than not it doesn't play out well. In games where town is appropriately pressuring lurkers, scum lurkers increase their posting, and town lurkers don't.

[Avagantimos]

Confirm

Location is a lie. He's on Amonkhet.

[Avagantimos]

alisaee is scummy

Alright, cool, that's a step.
UNVOTE:

lowell is scummy

And you were doing so well.
VOTE: Transcend

[Avagantimos]

why do you disagree with me

I have an ISO. Check it out sometime.

[Avagantimos]

that avalanche dude is also probably town

Was this supposed to be me? Cool.

[Avagantimos]

it was

but i'm just plain omgusing you now

i don't see how my reads paralleling with yours is worthy of being unvoted and my reads not paralleling with yours worthy of being voted.

Alright, I'll lay it out better.

I think Lowell's vote on LUV was the only one with any substance, and when that wagon dissolved because of his claim, it was reversed on to the one person who made a substantial vote. You started it, Alisae joined you, and I thought it was scummy.

When you decide that Alisae is looking worse to you, that's great, and breaks up what I viewed as a pretty shitty little partnership. But apparently you still think Lowell is scum for....reasons?

[Avagantimos]

lil prob scum
page 13: lil's 300 trying to look casual, is scum
But LuV is tonally off. He's trying to emoticon and joke his way into the realm of carefree town. It works for Ali, and maybe even for eddie and fire, but not this guy.

I wouldn't call this substantial. It looks more like shade throwing.

We disagree on the substance of his posting about LUV, but at the very least, he was saying something, while other posters, including Creature, were pretty openly voting LUV with no explanation at all.

I'm going to sleep. Keep investigating Alisae being a shit while I'm gone, and we can talk when I get back.

[Avagantimos]

i'm not scumreading you keyen

i think forming a bandwagon on someone v/la is scummy without attemptig to engage them

Yeah but that doesn't mean lynching them

Wagonning a player without the intention to lynch is only good for generating reactions, usually from the player you're pressuring. If somebody is V/LA, they aren't exactly here to get reactions from.

Forming a bandwagon on someone who's completely absent is only really useful for stalling and distracting from pressuring and getting reactions from people who are actually here.

[Avagantimos]

can any of the people who've randomly called chickadee town explain because I think she's scum

I wasn't getting anything particularly strong on Chickadee, but now I am.

I'm getting scum reads on Eddie Cane and Creature.

Eddie Cane - still not taking the game seriously, just popping in every so often to post something irrelevant.

Creature - Seems to be hopping around all over the place, forming wagons for no reason, and wanting to lynch lurkers purely for the fact they're lurking. It's D1, and really it's not even that far into D1 in the grand scheme of things. People have lives, it doesn't make them scum. It doesn't look great on their parts, but it's lazy scum hunting on Creature's part.

Looks towny to me.

[Avagantimos]

this is exactly how creature felt in think's game. people scumread him there too and he was almost lynched d1. he was town.

Cool. I didn't play that game. I've never played with Creature before, and the way he's playing this game looks scummy to me. Not enough that I voted for him, but enough that I like Chickadee more for seeing the same problems.

Meta is a decent argument not to lynch people, but you can't scumread people for not being familiar with a person's sketchy metagame.

[Avagantimos]

he's pretty much playing how I do half the time as scun

I've never played any games the way you're playing this one, so I don't think some hypothetical overlap in our play styles accounts to anything, but hey, that's me.

[Avagantimos]

this is exactly how creature felt in think's game. people scumread him there too and he was almost lynched d1. he was town.

Cool. I didn't play that game. I've never played with Creature before, and the way he's playing this game looks scummy to me. Not enough that I voted for him, but enough that I like Chickadee more for seeing the same problems.

Meta is a decent argument not to lynch people, but you can't scumread people for not being familiar with a person's sketchy metagame.

take this post: "I'm scum but I'm getting lynched for the wrong reasons WTF!!?!?!?!"

I was talking about your scumread on Chickadee there, boyo.

You're scumreading her for not reading deep enough into Creature's metagame, rather than arguing that his play this game is towny on its own merits.

[Avagantimos]

Eddie's last few posts have had substance to them. How do you feel about eddie now?

For what it's worth, I feel a hell of a lot better about Eddie now that he's actually pushing people. I disagree with him, but he's not actively lurking anymore, which is nice.

[Avagantimos]

You're scumreading her for not reading deep enough into Creature's metagame, rather than arguing that his play this game is towny on its own merits.

no I'm not, nice try though.

this is town creature you can probably mislynch me but you aren't getting creature

Creature - Seems to be hopping around all over the place, forming wagons for no reason, and wanting to lynch lurkers purely for the fact they're lurking. It's D1, and really it's not even that far into D1 in the grand scheme of things. People have lives, it doesn't make them scum. It doesn't look great on their parts, but it's lazy scum hunting on Creature's part.

can any of the people who've randomly called chickadee town explain because I think she's scum

this is exactly how creature felt in think's game. people scumread him there too and he was almost lynched d1. he was town.

That's definitely what it looks like. If there's more behind this progression that you haven't elaborated on, feel free to voice it.

[Avagantimos]

My last few posts have actually had substance to them, because we're at that point in D1. Other people don't seem to be at that point yet. And if they are, they're not showing it.

@chickadee

oh wait I thought you were talking about eddie specifically and not talking about everyone.

VOTE: chickadee

See when you started posting there were people posting seriously, so that statement given to the town just seems disingenuous

I agree with the underlined sentiment. This last hour or two has been full of good content.
VOTE: Chickadee

[Avagantimos]

I'm at a red light to tell you that vote is terrible

Pedit: yeah Ava is scum

Bye

Please don't post bad reads while driving, kids.

[Avagantimos]

I'm trying to figure out if 768 is misrepresentation or misinterpretation

...I thought I was reading that right. Are you reading me right?

Chickadee insulted the quality of town posting at the one point so far in the game where town posting has been very good at moving the game forward. Is that not what you were commenting on?

[Avagantimos]

My last few posts have actually had substance to them, because we're at that point in D1. Other people don't seem to be at that point yet. And if they are, they're not showing it.

@chickadee

oh wait I thought you were talking about eddie specifically and not talking about everyone.

VOTE: chickadee

See when you started posting there were people posting seriously, so that statement given to the town just seems disingenuous

I agree with the underlined sentiment. This last hour or two has been full of good content.
VOTE: Chickadee

Day has been going on for more than the last hour or two though. Sure the last hour or so has been decent, but we're 31 pages in and most of it has been people coming in to say pretty much nothing.

Other people don't seem to be at that point yet. And if they are, they're not showing it.

This is a comment on the current state of the game, not the state of the game yesterday.

[Avagantimos]

Correction, saying pretty much nothing, or noting someone's meta game based on one or two posts from them.

OK, but that's a comment on eddie (at least up until recently), not "other players."

[Avagantimos]

@ava

I brought up how chickadee's entrance into the thread was not serious. Her response to me was about that period of time. I responded by saying yes, there was serious content at the point she had entered. I voted her because if she really cared that much from the beginning she wouldn't have started posting the way she did

Alright, then I misunderstand you're vote on her. Sorry for that. I'm still voting her for similar, albeit slightly different, reasons.

[Avagantimos]

lol Eddie is being wagoned, should I look for who has the most unrealistic scumread on him?

eddie isn't being wagoned. His recent posting seems a little towny.

[Avagantimos]

Tonally not good. I agree with eddie's 754, basically.

Eddie's 754 is partially a misrep, as I'm talking about his scumread on Chickadee, not me. He's not even scumreading me for a missed meta call.

[Avagantimos]

I'm in the same boat as LQ, feeling like they don't explain anything.

chickadee, how does saying something in forced not explain. it doesnt take rocket science to understand what that means

That was forced.


You can literally say anything is forced. It doesn't hold much meaning without explanation.

UNVOTE:

[Avagantimos]

There's a couple votes on the Alisae wagon I don't like at the moment.

Transcend, could you unvote Alisae so I can vote there instead? Please and thanks.

[Avagantimos]

There's a couple votes on the Alisae wagon I don't like at the moment.

Transcend, could you unvote Alisae so I can vote there instead? Please and thanks.

Like who? And why?

Transcend is the big issue I have with it. I think her interactions with Alisae are strange to say the least, and he's one of my scum reads, so him being on the wagon is problematic to me.

The other issue is you, but that's mostly because you haven't posted much yet. I don't necessarily think you're scummy, but I can't exactly have a read on you at all yet, so joining you on a vote is not my favorite thing.

There's a couple votes on the Alisae wagon I don't like at the moment.

Transcend, could you unvote Alisae so I can vote there instead? Please and thanks.

i have never been asked something like this before, and i have no idea what you're insinuating --

but sure

UNVOTE:

That was basically a joke, but give me a minute and I might hop on. If you're gonna vote there, just vote there.

[Avagantimos]

In other news, I like that Transcend, despite having me as one of his biggest scumreads, is basically my puppet.

[Avagantimos]

Transcend is the big issue I have with it. I think her interactions

u wan see meh b00b3hs ? ? ?

VOTE: Alisae

Something about border collies make me misgender you. I also have a habbit of doing it with animu profile pics.

[Avagantimos]

I read this, and it's in English, but I can't parse if you think Alisae is scum or if you think she is town. Yuor desire to vote her seems to indicate you think she is scum. Your worrying about her wagon composition seems to indicate you think she is town.

Explain please.

Exactly that. If it weren't for Transcend's vote, I would feel very comfortable voting Alisae, but as I scumread both of them, it puts me in a predicament. I'm either wrong about one of them, or Transcend is doing some day one bus shenanigans.

[Avagantimos]

VOTE: avagantimos

Is this another test to see what I'll do?
VOTE: Transcend

[Avagantimos]

you forcing an excuse due to peregrinev's presence basically draws the line.

There's a couple votes on the Alisae wagon I don't like at the moment.

I was just saying that I didn't like the Peregrine vote yet.

It wasn't getting in the way, as I thought I made pretty clear, but whatevs, a misrep is a misrep.

[Avagantimos]

Glad I didn't jump on the Alisae wagon. That claim is probably tue.

Lil Uzi Vert (6): Firebringer, Creature, Eddie Cane, chickadee, Lowell, gerryoat

Alright everyone

Brain exercise

There's a very low chance this wagon does not have scum on it

Rank everyone here from 1-6. 1 being towniest 6 being scummiest

My answer is smt like

1. Eddie
2. Fire
3. Chick
4. Gerry
5. Creature
6. Lowell

I want everyone to respond to this

Transcend wants everyone to respond to this so that he isn't in the POE for a lynch right now. That said:
1. Eddie
2. Firebringer
3. Chickadee
4. Lowell
5. gerryoat
6. Creature

VOTE: Transcend

Will also happily vote Creature.

[Avagantimos]

VOTE: Ava

Shoop da whoop

Also

OMGUS

[Avagantimos]

Ava where are you going with your Trans push?

I vote for people I'm happy to lynch. If we don't lynch Trans today, that's your guys' call, but I just want it to be heard that Trans is scum and we should be lynching him.

[Avagantimos]

Glad I didn't jump on the Alisae wagon. That claim is probably tue.

uhhhh

no for real why does it matter if alisae is town if you wouldn't have known it if you were town jumping on the wagon?

p edit let the record state that i said it first, not trans

I don't like to vote for town? Obviously Alisae wouldn't have died if I jumped on, but I can take a little personal pride in not being sold.

[Avagantimos]

Lil Uzi Vert (6): Firebringer, Creature, Eddie Cane, chickadee, Lowell, gerryoat

Alright everyone

Brain exercise

There's a very low chance this wagon does not have scum on it

Rank everyone here from 1-6. 1 being towniest 6 being scummiest

My answer is smt like

1. Eddie
2. Fire
3. Chick
4. Gerry
5. Creature
6. Lowell

I want everyone to respond to this

Transcend wants everyone to respond to this so that he isn't in the POE for a lynch right now.

This is more reason than most are giving, but if you want me to go back and pull some more quotes of me giving you FOS, I will.

[Avagantimos]

...yeah but every wagon on town isn't necessarily scum motivated

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I'm not saying LAMIST for not voting Alisae. I'm just saying I'm happy I withheld doubt and was right.

[Avagantimos]

Spoiler: 495

The only stuff I have a heavy opinion on right now revolves around the LUV wagon, and people's response to his claim.

Let me take a stab at this:

page 1: fire is town, ali tries too hard, trans prob scum
page 2: lickety is newbtown
page 3: creature prob scum, fire's 59 is bad
page 4: trans' 77 is bad, 79 is sick burn,
page 5: lil prob scum
page 6: aron town
page 7: meh
page 8: eddie prob town
page 9: ?
page 10: meh, ali town I guess
page 11: dont understand the ali/aron thing
page 12: meh
page 13: lil's 300 trying to look casual, is scum
page 14: ditto 341

VOTE: Lil

The cases are garbage. All the cases. But LuV is tonally off. He's trying to emoticon and joke his way into the realm of carefree town. It works for Ali, and maybe even for eddie and fire, but not this guy.

I think this read on LUV makes sense. When I read it, I wanted to vote for LUV.

I'm not bluffing. The wagon pissed me off and if town loses because of it, so be it. People need to stop acting like they can read me and stop pushing NAI reasons.

This post, and his claim, seemed like genuine frustrated town to me. It's the first thing he posted in the game that felt like it probably couldn't have come from scum. So while I townread LUV for this, I still townread Lowell for pushing it, because before this post, LUV looked like a good wagon.

Scum on your wagon is either Creature or Lowell. I'll sort those two later.

Lowell I could see being scum.

okay alisae let's play a game

VOTE: Lowell

VOTE: Lowell
Challenge Accepted.

VOTE: Alisae

ah but it is a giant trap that you've fallen into

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

jokes

VOTE: Lowell

VOTE: lowell

alisae and transcend. lets make a pact to never vote each other. deal?

I don't like this entire interaction. I think there's an attempt here to turn the LUV wagon into a counterwagon on Lowell, and I think there's at least one scum among Transcend, Alisae, and gerryoat.

tldr, Lowell's town, LUV is town, the votes on Lowell are bad.
VOTE: Transcend

Spoiler: 625

it was

but i'm just plain omgusing you now

i don't see how my reads paralleling with yours is worthy of being unvoted and my reads not paralleling with yours worthy of being voted.

Alright, I'll lay it out better.

I think Lowell's vote on LUV was the only one with any substance, and when that wagon dissolved because of his claim, it was reversed on to the one person who made a substantial vote. You started it, Alisae joined you, and I thought it was scummy.

When you decide that Alisae is looking worse to you, that's great, and breaks up what I viewed as a pretty shitty little partnership. But apparently you still think Lowell is scum for....reasons?

Spoiler: 946

you forcing an excuse due to peregrinev's presence basically draws the line.

There's a couple votes on the Alisae wagon I don't like at the moment.

I was just saying that I didn't like the Peregrine vote yet.

It wasn't getting in the way, as I thought I made pretty clear, but whatevs, a misrep is a misrep.

So it's three major things:

I don't like the Lowell wagon that he started way back when. It's not great now, but it was terrible then.

He straight up misrepped me when I was uncomfortable hopping on the Alisae wagon due to HIS presence there.

Now he is looking for scum the Alisae wagon, conveniently excluding HIS participation in the Alisae wagon.

[Avagantimos]

Of course anyone is going to exclude themselves off that.

"Hey, I'm gonna go ahead and dictate how we have the conversation after Alisae's claim about who's scum on the wagon. Everyone talk about these six people, and only these six people. Nobody else is relevant to the conversation. kthx"

[Avagantimos]

Someone respond to 1249 please

Yes. Get pizza. I'll eat it with you and you can give me tips on how to shitpost so that town likes me more.

[Avagantimos]

I JUST FIGURED OUT AVA'S MAIN!

...I'm legit intrigued to find out who you think I am, but please do me a favour and don't post it in the game thread (unless you're that hellbent on figuring out my meta (I'll just deny it regardless)). Just PM me post game.

[Avagantimos]

I think it's ThinkBig

Oh, just saw there was another page. Sorry, I'm having a Modelo and Persona V night. Neither confirming now denying that I am ThinkBig. Go ahead and have fun with that.

[Avagantimos]

Nor does TB play video games.

Well that's just depressing. Who doesn't play video games?

[Avagantimos]

Hey Peregrine, still looking for you to address this.

Spoiler:

Confirm

Location is a lie. He's on Amonkhet.

[Avagantimos]

If I were a weak vig I would shoot every night until I died or the game ended.

(I wouldn't target based on "who do I think is the scummiest" but on "who would make a good policy lynch" and/or "who is probably getting lynched tomorrow anyway")

Umlaut is softly on my town list for saying something that I love.

I'm not reading this today. How's the Ali wagon going? Can I 1v1 transcend yet?

Alright, I rescind the townread I had on Lowell from the LUV interaction. This is unacceptable.

What's the VC on Lowell?

[Avagantimos]

1528 is par for the course with lowell

Fine, then I think I'm with Umlaut. Just vig him.

[Avagantimos]

That's not a type of pie

a cutie pie

[Avagantimos]

Thanks for the VC. Time to ruin it.
VOTE: Lowell

[Avagantimos]

Sorry guys. Family stuff happened. No emergencies, or anything. Just family stuff. I should have gone V/LA, but didn't. Sorry.

In other news, these votes on me look like a blatant counter wagon to Lowell after his wagon started to pick up steam again. Eddie said that Lowell looks towny because there's been pressure on him all game, but it's impossible to really build momentum on him, which to me indicates he's scum. Scum keeps angling to NOT kill Lowell, and now they're doing it with counter wagon on me, because I'm not active, and might not be back to defend myself.

[Avagantimos]

wagon construction on this feels VERY comfortable

Says scum that started the counter wagon.

[Avagantimos]

besides, didn't you defend the shit out of lowell?

what's the transition?

why are you acting like being a counterwagon to lowell is a bad thing?

I didn't "defend the shit out of Lowell." I just defended him. He did something that wasn't indicative of him being scum, to me at least, and three players including you jumped down his throat over a noncase. Now maybe that was just you trying to look like you were doing something, and you did it on scum just so that you guys didn't look like you were on a team later, or I'm wrong about you, or I'm wrong about Lowell, but don't misrep me here.

I was not being scummy, people were calling him scum, I called that out as the bad play that it was, then he started to be scummy, and now I'm, on his wagon. As the game develops, so too should your reads on players.

[Avagantimos]

Sorry guys. Family stuff happened. No emergencies, or anything. Just family stuff. I should have gone V/LA, but didn't. Sorry.

In other news, these votes on me look like a blatant counter wagon to Lowell after his wagon started to pick up steam again. Eddie said that Lowell looks towny because there's been pressure on him all game, but it's impossible to really build momentum on him, which to me indicates he's scum. Scum keeps angling to NOT kill Lowell, and now they're doing it with counter wagon on me, because I'm not active, and might not be back to defend myself.

It clearly isn't impossible to build up momentum becaus3 he has a large wagon. he is also constantly brought up as scummy

It's harder to lynch him than it should be, and it's not because he's coming back into the thread with townier play. It's because scum is torpedoing his wagon whenever it gains that momentum.

[Avagantimos]

Lowell

was not being scummy

PEDIT

[Avagantimos]

Again, the fact that the counterwagon was aimed on a player about to receive a prod with two days left in the day phase should say something about it. I got five votes in ten posts, and two of them were explicitly naked votes.

[Avagantimos]

I got five votes in ten posts, and two of them were explicitly naked votes.

Those votes are not all town.

[Avagantimos]

I don't know if we're still talking about Avagantimos, but I skimmed his ISO and everything looks town AF to me. Putting him #1 on my Do Not Lynch list for now.

Quoting that to save you all the trouble.

Your reads on a player adapting to new information isn't scummy.

VOTE: Avagantimos

It's better than Lowell, and Transcend is right that Ava's position on Lowell is incoherent.

What's scummy is that you're being hypocritical about it.

[Avagantimos]

Who do you think is scum on your wagon then?

I've been very upfront that I think Transcend is scum.

[Avagantimos]

If you really had to push me to find other scum on my voters, I'm thinking Eddie. I doubt I have three or more scum within my six voters. That'd just be bad play on the scum team's part.

[Avagantimos]

If you really had to push me to find other scum on my voters, I'm thinking Eddie.

That said, I don't think Eddie and Transcend would be this blatant of scum buddies. I'm more convinced on Transcend than Eddie.

[Avagantimos]

You never said anything about scumreading Lowell, you just hopped into his wagon and made a with remark about the vote count. Tell me now, what did Lowell do or not do to reverse your read?

I'm not reading this today. How's the Ali wagon going? Can I 1v1 transcend yet?

Alright, I rescind the townread I had on Lowell from the LUV interaction. This is unacceptable.

What's the VC on Lowell?

I believe you just didn't see this. When I was looking for a VC, it's because I didn't want to bring him to L-1 on accident. I thought his 1528 was shitty, because it looked like blatant lurkscum, and I was happy jumping on his wagon because of it.

umlaut is trying to whiteknight me. It's subtle but it's there. his reaction to Ali's threat to NK me was both bizarre (why does this affect him?) and unneeded (no one takes Ali seriously). His reaction to fykus's claim is also dumb. Just vote the guy if you want, why make a scene. no one cares about your process. he's a tryhard trying to be a lurker is what I'm saying here.

I thought this comment was terrible. He's basically telling people to stop communicating.

He had the most explained reason to be on the LUV wagon early, and it got him a bit of town points. Those went away as he lurked, and they were replaced with all of this. This is all he's given us to go on, and I think it adds up scummy. I also read scum in him based on how hard it is to push his wagon forward, and how counterwagons keep popping up to it on town.

[Avagantimos]

your last mention of me had me as the towniest put of those 6.

In a post I made four days ago, before you blew up the Lowell wagon, and joined a counterwagon on me, you're right, I thought you were relatively towny. Now I don't. Funny how playing scummy makes people scumread you.

I'm also really not liking that you've continued the off topic joke posts you did at the beginning of the game. I assumed that would cool down as the game developed and there was more to talk about, but you're still just skating by giving minimal detail on any reads and just making one word posts, and I think that's shitty.

[Avagantimos]

Why would scum!Transcend be the first to jump ship from my wagon and start a new one on you, this close to deadline?

Didn't realize Transcend wasn't on the Lowell wagon at the time. It's possible he thought mine was more likely to get steam. It's possible he's just more scared of me because I've been on his case basically all day. It's possible it's a combination of those things two things. I understand scum!Transcend jumping off of your wagon when it's not exactly taking off the ground, for one that clearly will take off the ground. I already got up to six votes, so clearly it was a correct play for scum!Transcend to make. I'm better lynch bait right now than you, especially since I wasn't here to defend myself.

[Avagantimos]

Alright, I need to go, because I have other things to do. I think I've said more than enough right now, and I'm, just waiting for people to come back into this thread and read it. There was a counterwagon off of scum!Lowell on to town!me, when I was absent over a religious holiday weekend, when deadline would be reached very shortly after that holiday ended, and it picked up speed rapidly. Now go hunt for the scum on that movement, because it's obviously there.

[Avagantimos]

So unless I'm reading incorrectly, Eddie didn't actually get a partial guilty on Chickadee and was just putting the screws to a scumread. But Fykus is counterclaiming JOAT. Is there any reliable possibility that there are two JOATs, or is there another reason we're not lynching the person who was counterclaimed?

[Avagantimos]

Also, I just want to remind everyone that Transcend naked hammered without a claim.

Good morning

VOTE: Lowell

and some people still come out of that scumreading me over him.

[Avagantimos]

I lolhammered a lynch i thought was suspicious

You voted Lowell because (???)

I also thought he was scum, but I wouldn't hammer without a claim. I don't exactly expect town to do that, but if this town disagrees, then I'm at a loss.

[Avagantimos]

tldr, Lowell's town, LUV is town, the votes on Lowell are bad.
VOTE: Transcend

Thanks for the VC. Time to ruin it.
VOTE: Lowell

Explain this transition

I'm pretty sure over a thousand posts and my ISO explain my transition pretty well. Lowell continued to lurk and his posting got worse.

[Avagantimos]

You never said anything about scumreading Lowell, you just hopped into his wagon and made a with remark about the vote count. Tell me now, what did Lowell do or not do to reverse your read?

I'm not reading this today. How's the Ali wagon going? Can I 1v1 transcend yet?

Alright, I rescind the townread I had on Lowell from the LUV interaction. This is unacceptable.

What's the VC on Lowell?

I believe you just didn't see this. When I was looking for a VC, it's because I didn't want to bring him to L-1 on accident. I thought his 1528 was shitty, because it looked like blatant lurkscum, and I was happy jumping on his wagon because of it.

umlaut is trying to whiteknight me. It's subtle but it's there. his reaction to Ali's threat to NK me was both bizarre (why does this affect him?) and unneeded (no one takes Ali seriously). His reaction to fykus's claim is also dumb. Just vote the guy if you want, why make a scene. no one cares about your process. he's a tryhard trying to be a lurker is what I'm saying here.

I thought this comment was terrible. He's basically telling people to stop communicating.

He had the most explained reason to be on the LUV wagon early, and it got him a bit of town points. Those went away as he lurked, and they were replaced with all of this. This is all he's given us to go on, and I think it adds up scummy. I also read scum in him based on how hard it is to push his wagon forward, and how counterwagons keep popping up to it on town.

This is the transition.

[Avagantimos]

Typical Transcend would lolhammer

I haven't played with Transcend before. If that's true, then so be it, but it's antitown play. Granted, Lowell would have claimed VT and still likely would have been lynched, but Trans didn't give town the opportunity to make that decision, and didn't give Lowell the opportunity to claim a PR if he had it.

[Avagantimos]

Anyways talk to me about what you think about the joat claims.

I don't know if this is aimed at me or not, but for what it matters, both Chick and Fykus look genuine to me, but I don't believe there's two JOATs in this game, so I'm inclined to disbelieve one of them. Of the two, I think Fykus's claim is more believable.

[Avagantimos]

Since Eddie's investigative role seems unreliable, why did Fykus's information on you turned guilty?

Fykus claims to have a non-vanilla result on Eddie. He doesn't have a result on Chick.

[Avagantimos]

There's no way you are a miller as I think it's not considered as normal.

From the wiki: "A Miller that knows they are a Miller and flips as such is considered Normal on mafiascum.net."

It's only possible if Chickadee

knew

she was a miller, which I haven't really gotten an indication of.

[Avagantimos]

No.
Correct Miller play is to claim in your first post.

Also, this happened. I would have expected it to come up before night one if somebody was actually a miller.

[Avagantimos]

the literal only thing keeping me off the wagon is uma + avas interactions with it but whatevs

So this is gonna be one of those games where explaining my reads on people makes town apprehensive to lynch my scumreads. Cool.

[Avagantimos]

I think it's adorable that you guys are looking for scum exclusively in the last few votes on Lowell but not acknowledging the HAMMER ON LOWELL.

[Avagantimos]

lynch ava or uma

Lining up lynched.

You are full of trickiness.

Glad somebody else noticed this.

[Avagantimos]

VOTE: Chickadee

[Avagantimos]

Misrep it as much as you want. Chickadee had time to claim, and did. We're sitting around waiting for the inevitable happen, and we're done discussing. That's a hell of a lot different from what you did, and you know it.

[Avagantimos]

she didn't full claim though

My possible actions are as follows (all 1 shot):
commuter
friendly neighbor
neighborizer - which I successfully used on Uzi, but he died, so it was useless. I say successful, because the neighborhood exists. I can post there if I want, but Uzi can't on account of being dead and all.

[Avagantimos]

I'm more bothered because I said earlier that chick was the optimal scum to ignore since we know she isn't scum Ninja.
But Ava lynched anyways without even like a strong read and excuses it because "inevitable

So unless I'm reading incorrectly, Eddie didn't actually get a partial guilty on Chickadee and was just putting the screws to a scumread. But Fykus is counterclaiming JOAT. Is there any reliable possibility that there are two JOATs, or is there another reason we're not lynching the person who was counterclaimed?

Anyways talk to me about what you think about the joat claims.

I don't know if this is aimed at me or not, but for what it matters, both Chick and Fykus look genuine to me, but I don't believe there's two JOATs in this game, so I'm inclined to disbelieve one of them. Of the two, I think Fykus's claim is more believable.

[Avagantimos]

I feel like all I'm able to do this game is point out when people are deliberately misrepping me. This has been the entire game for me.

[Avagantimos]

I'm more bothered because I said earlier that chick was the optimal scum to ignore since we know she isn't scum Ninja.

I'd rather lynch likely scum than aim for Ninja, which is likely to be "the towniest scum," especially when a) we don't know there's a Ninja and b) it looks like town is going to decide that's me.

[Avagantimos]

"Ohh boy I got Ninja I better act super townie this game because my team needs me"
Said no scum ever.

If anything those are scum going to coast harder since they can't be found without a cop.

By that logic, chick is no less likely to be the Ninja than any other scum.

[Avagantimos]

Chick is gonna flip scum and I'm still going to be quick lynched tomorrow because town can't pull their heads out of their asses.

[Avagantimos]

"Ohh boy I got Ninja I better act super townie this game because my team needs me"
Said no scum ever.

If anything those are scum going to coast harder since they can't be found without a cop.

By that logic, chick is no less likely to be the Ninja than any other scum.

I've already explained why chick can't be fucking Ninja by using logic of what they claimed....

Are you reading my posts at all?

Chick claimed to have visited dead person.
As scum Ninja, do you claim to visit a person that no one can see you visit?
Answer is No. because tracker and watcher will say you are lying.

If you claim to visit ANYONE as Ninja, Tracker and Watcher can see you're lying. You claim to visit the person who died because they're dead and can't argue with you.

[Avagantimos]

Magic prerelease is happening tonigt. I've got shit to read and shit to say. We have time. Don't lynch me while I'm gone, please.

[Avagantimos]

didn't ava say he was going to post soon or something of the like

Perfect timing.

I lost my midnight prerelease, got home at 9:00am, slept for six hours, and now I'm procrastinating doing my final project for the semester by catching up here.

Expect me to be completely free by the middle of next week. Maybe I should just V/LA in the mean time, but I don't like to do that unless I'm away from a computer, like, camping or something.

I'm gonna be rereading some slots, and giving reads when I have the time (which I will have before day three ends.) If you want to run me up, go ahead, but I'm not accelerating any of this. Not gonna claim until I can get some reads on the table, because I'd rather town have more information to use post-lynching me, and I'm not content with just being mislynched post claim without the chance to get full, detailed reads out there first.

[Avagantimos]

post at least something. the short version.

No.

Wait for the long-form stuff. I have information to process, and I don't want to waffle upon a complete reread.

[Avagantimos]

you can eaffle. it's pro town to post what's on your mind, not bottle or up in fear of contradicting yourself. we aren't wadting 4 game days (Wednesday aka mid next week) in a 10 day cycle waiting for someone to post and blindly speculating around them.

I feel like it's suicidal to say this right now, but Umlaut is town. I think Gerryoat is angling for town points by being off of both of our inevitable lynches while doing nothing to stop them.

[Avagantimos]

Also, I have to say it. I didn't lolhammer. At the very least, my hammer had more nuance and context than Trans's. People were waiting for a hammer, I had presented that I was OK lynching the slot, and she had time to full claim. Some people are clearly legitimately misunderstanding that, but some people are likely intentionally misrepresenting that.

[Avagantimos]

you can eaffle. it's pro town to post what's on your mind, not bottle or up in fear of contradicting yourself. we aren't wadting 4 game days (Wednesday aka mid next week) in a 10 day cycle waiting for someone to post and blindly speculating around them.

I feel like it's suicidal to say this right now, but Umlaut is town. I think Gerryoat is angling for town points by being off of both of our inevitable lynches while doing nothing to stop them.

okay, but that's a separate thing enturely. you are one of the major wagons and uma is the othet. why would you not feel the need to at least out your uma tr? that seems like a pretty damn urgent read to me rn.

Because I'm not ready to discuss or defend calling Uma town. I wanted to do a full reread with the information I have now rather than give anything partial. It's unlucky that falls on my busiest IRL week, but them's the beats.

[Avagantimos]

So unless I'm reading incorrectly, Eddie didn't actually get a partial guilty on Chickadee and was just putting the screws to a scumread. But Fykus is counterclaiming JOAT. Is there any reliable possibility that there are two JOATs, or is there another reason we're not lynching the person who was counterclaimed?

@arona: you missed a spot

[Avagantimos]

"Oh no, you're townreading Umlaut, you're scum."

It's mostly the whole doing nothing about it, thing. "Ava and uma are town, but you guys keep doing your thing. I'm gonna go ahead and start a vanity wagon somewhere else and then just lurk out while you lynch town."

[Avagantimos]

Alright, yeah, no. We're not playing this. I'm still working on my finals, and I still intend to be done middle of next week when they're all due, but if you want to go ahead and push the person who's busy for a few days then I guess I'll push back. Give me about half an hour and I'll put together an argument for town Umalut.

Also, reminder: You're the people that decided to stop playing while I've been busy, and decided not to reread Umlaut. Nobody has been listening to anything I've had to say all game, so if you're really gonna pin the blame on me for the top two wagons right now being town, you're being an idiot.

[Avagantimos]

Alisae's latest posts (on townblocking) are pretty town actually...

Someone give me a new scumread, I suck at binge-reading

Umlaut was looking at scum Alisae for the majority of his early posts, and then turned it around at a time and for a reason that other players decided to scum read Alisae for. Doubling back on a read when it would be safer and more advantageous to keep it steady as scum is a towny thing to do.

LQ, for what it's worth I understand why pre-flip associative arguments are dangerous but I still frequently find myself wanting to make them and sometimes give in to the temptation.

I think being open like this, about your gameplay and its pitfalls, is towny.

People keep saying I'm scummy but no one is voting me. It's unnerving.

I kind of want to join the Lowell wagon just because, hey, wagon, but I don't really get it.

People on the Lowell wagon:

Do any of you have meta with Lowell and can you comment on how his play here compares?

Everything about this post is town. If you're scum and people aren't voting you, cool. Don't draw attention to it.

Not joining the Lowell wagon until given a reason. Explicitly asks people to spell out why Lowell is scummy.

Gut townreading Fykus. He seems overwhelmed by the pace of the game, which I can sympathize with.

Don't really feel in my soul that Chickadee is scum, so
UNVOTE: Chickadee

Still want the Lowell voters to answer my question.

VOTE: Eddie Cane
I'm not going to pretend to have reasoning here, I just want somewhere to put my vote that isn't a townread and isn't Lowell.

Same here. This is just a perfect town vote. Umlaut is transparent, which is a nail in the coffin for scum to be.

I just assumed everyone in this game wasn't

fucking terrible,

my mistake.

Legit frustrated town.



I can't argue why I'M town. I've been pointing out misreps on me all game, and it hasn't stopped people from pushing me based on those misreps. But I can at least present the case to why Umlaut is town, and when I flip, hopefully you guys can look OFF us and do real scum hunting. I'm an easy mislynch for scum because I've been on both town wagons, and because I put myself in the shitty position of hammering someone who town had already agreed was the lynch. I don't understand how Umlaut even became a wagon, because there's never been any real case for him to be scum. I don't think scum is on his wagon, because scum will always look for an easy wagon, and his shouldn't be.

Scum is unlikely to be pushing me right now, because they know town will do the job for them. Peregrine is lurking. Gerryoat decided to vote after I called him out for refusing to make a town case on me or Umlaut or make a scum case on Creature. Creature is on a vanity wagon, and I have no idea what LicketyQuickety is even doing. He's pushing me, but not voting me, then decides to vote me for ??reasons?? while I'm busy for half a week with the end of my semester.

Those are the four slots I wanted to read, given enough time, and I wanted to come back in with a solid "This one player is scum," but I don't have the time to accomplish all of that, so have the group instead.

Of the four, my biggest scumread is on Gerryoat. Fuck all yall. I'm not done talking in this game.

VOTE: Gerryoat

[Avagantimos]

if you're town the blame is on you for bring scummy as shit.

Just because you don't like my play and you don't have any idea how to read me doesn't mean I'm scum. If you're scum, you've lied about my play. If you're town, you're listening to lies about my play. The person you guys are describing, a hypocrite who hammers town after condemning another player for hammering town, is scummy, but that's not the player I've been this game.

There's more nuance to the ends of days one and two than people are including in their one-line summaries, and they're painting me as scum for something that straight up never happened.

So yeah, I'm to blame for being wagoned right now, good job.

[Avagantimos]

Lynch 1.
Shoot the other.
Still want claims tho.

Good morning

VOTE: Lowell

My possible actions are as follows (all 1 shot):
commuter
friendly neighbor
neighborizer - which I successfully used on Uzi, but he died, so it was useless. I say successful, because the neighborhood exists. I can post there if I want, but Uzi can't on account of being dead and all.


So yes, I would say that those abilities are based mostly on self preservation.


I'm not a miller.
I'm not a newbie either. Just because I haven't played much here, does not mean I'm a newbie, and I wish people would stop saying that. I've played for eight years. I feel like everyone is scum reading me because I'm new

here

. This entire game has just been "Nah, this is their meta, end of story."

someone hammer so we can move on please

People want a hammer.

Why should I hammer Chick?

VOTE: Chickadee

For the record. I keep explaining how the two ends of day were different, but since clearly nobody is listening, I guess I should just quote it.

[Avagantimos]

VOTE: Lowell

I really don't think Ava is scum.

I mean, I don't think Lowell is scum either but I'm less confident there, and anyway it's not like he's helping.

What do you make of this ava

We were nearing the end of day one, he saw that there were only two viable wagons after arguing pretty hard for other ones and being ignored, so he jumped on the one he felt was less valuable and lynched a vanilla townie.

More town have done that in the history of this game than scum. I've done it, and so have you.

[Avagantimos]

again, wrong. I gave lots of arguments why Lowell was town and you flat out ignored ne. his other push (sole pusj) was on me, town, and he fosd chickadee iirc, also what we now know was town. it was not too late to make another wagon by any means.

The only real other wagon at the time was me. Umlaut thought, and still thinks, that you're scum, and while I'm not convinced he's right, I understand why he thought that. He saw that the lynch he wanted wasn't going to happen, he saw that it was between me and Lowell, and he made a decision.

[Avagantimos]

1. Quickhammered town

2. Does there have to be a 2?

Oh yeah just noticed this: I don't recall umlaut voting/fosing transcend day 2

Apparently people expect that from Transcend. Should we scumread everybody who targeted me for supposedly hammering and not targeting Trans for doing it worse, because we'd be scumreading most of the players in the game?

[Avagantimos]

I was open to scum transcend and scum arona and scum gerry pushing you, but your arguments are almost as bad as your lack of posting was. you have done nothing to convince me you yourself are town, never mind uma is.

I've basically given up on convincing anyone of anything. I just want to have valuable information for town in play after I am mislynched.

[Avagantimos]

you yourself asked me about Lowell iirc and never even replied to my meta post

Because meta is annoying, not convincing to me (as players should and often do change their meta), and I was much too busy to read the source of your meta argument for validity.

[Avagantimos]

you should probably post your reads list too since I'm being nkd regardless.

A) Why would I need to post my reads list if you're the NK target?

B) Why would you be the NK target?

C) The entire reason I was asking for time before posting any kind of case is because I want to reread to get a better handle on my reads. I gave you the pool of four that I scumread right now and details why. That's more than most players do.

[Avagantimos]

In other news, I wasted a fucking hour on this when I should have been working on my finals because you jackasses couldn't keep your heads screwed on for a few days. I'm out.

[Avagantimos]

Ava AND Umalaut are both doing NOTHING to convince me they are Town.

What is it gonna take to satisfy you? I made walls. I've done everything plausible to explain how seemingly the one thing that's been used to scumread me is untrue.

He even came back and made that clear.

i literally woke up saw lowell was l-1 in the vc and hammered for memes

(:

This is not what I did. It's apparent that this isn't what I did if you were playing the game at the time. Scumreading me for some supposed hypocrisy on this is bullshit.

Spoiler: Fuck

[Avagantimos]

Like to you self image >> solving the game which usually rings the scum bells.

There're two leading wagons right now. They are both on town. I said everything I reasonably could to sway off of either of those two wagons, and presented alternate scumreads, with reasons they're scum. And somehow I'm not doing enough during the ending of my semester. Town's never going to be satsfied with my play, I just wasted this alt and this entire game now, I'm just spent.

Lynch me if that's what you're going to do. I'm out of gas.