Large Normal 204: BooneyToonz III - Calling All Cryptids!END

[massive]

Ego.

[massive]

Damn a lot of these joined dates are pretty old xd

Oh yeah? VOTE: WhyMafia

Ego.

this annoys some people
or should I say sheeple

I'm a grown-ass man, I do what I want!

If MuttonChopMagic raps in every game I'll just follow them into every game they join.

[massive]

Oh yeah? VOTE: WhyMafia

He's right you are ruggedly handsome.

FTFY

[massive]

PPS I will

VOTE: Transcend

[massive]

Jeezus 12 pages. Well I hope someone had a meltdown.

[massive]

I like Egg. I like Texcat. I think Lexa might be OK too. And if MuttonChop is scum he can just win the game now because I am never ever going to lynch him.

This is probably town ABR which makes Gin's overreaction not so great. But I'm not crazy about FourTrouble either so if I had to fall on one side or the other, I'd probably give Gin the benefit of the doubt since ABR's townplay is designed to do exactly what it's done.

VOTE: Tchill

Look at this cat trying to buddy ABR. That won't end well.

[massive]

I like Texcat.

Why?

391 mirrored my exact thoughts when I read it.

[massive]

I like Texcat.

Why?

391 mirrored my exact thoughts when I read it.

So what's town about those thoughts?

Well I personally know that mine come from town, so why wouldn't I associate similar thoughts with similar alignment?

[massive]

I'm ok with that.

[massive]

Massive why such a strong town read on mutton chop?

Yeah under no circumstances have I said I have a strong townread on him. I just said I don't want to ever lynch him. Pure entertainment value is pretty limited in some of these games and you gotta take it where you get it.

And some sons of biscuits better learn to freaking edit their quotes or there will be heck to pay.

And I could follow ABR a bit.

VOTE: lapsa

[massive]

Yeah under no circumstances have I said I have a strong townread on him. I just said I don't want to ever lynch him. Pure entertainment value is pretty limited in some of these games and you gotta take it where you get it.

ugly backtracking

Quote me saying I townread him.

massive
albert b rampage
why are you voting a mod-confirmed townie

To see who would try and back it up. You knew someone was going to forget and just see the wagon and go for it. I assume ABR the same but he could actually want you lynched, your style is atrocious. Thanks for confirming my scumread Tchill though.

VOTE: Tchill

kinda think massive voting lapsa was a dumbtell for town

Well that's mean. I'm old, not senile. And I'm trying to be more crafty.

===

Egg, what purpose do you think scum-Mutton has for continuing to entertain us (or at least me)? Do you think his reads are otherwise obscured by it?

FourTrouble, I have a little experience with ABR but I'd probably say "give me a couple days" and then I can go back and look at previous games. I have seen both halves, I do know that.

[massive]

Look at Lore trying to get in on the rap game.

[massive]

Quote me saying I townread him.

it looks as if you intentionally kept it open that way

nobody cares - nice, you have successfully buddied mutton
somebody cares - there's always path to retreat

Or maybe I'm just entertained and I explicitly said "I don't care if he's scum because I'm never going to lynch him" because of that. You are going to need to misrep me a lot harder to get me lynched.

[massive]

Lore might be ok. Game needs more Tchill votes.

[massive]

There is a whole lot of people in this game who need to get off their vanity wagon.

[massive]

massive: OK people we need less vanity votes
WhyMafia: *moves off of a wagon onto a vanity vote with a player with six posts and an RVS*

Just kill me now.

[massive]

massive: OK people we need less vanity votes
WhyMafia: *moves off of a wagon onto a vanity vote with a player with six posts and an RVS*

Just kill me now.

but
he/she has 45 posts and has been active

Your vote is a vanity vote.

If I say just exactly that you will say "oh no it's a wagon, Theta is on it with me."

Theta has six posts and the vote is RVS.

HENCE

It's not a wagon. It's you vanity voting. Knock it off.

[massive]

Page-32-Pisskop is town. I'm slowly working forward.

[massive]

36-Tchill is calling for attention on people instead of actually questioning them himself. Why is he expecting others to do the heavy lifting? Still happy with my vote.

[massive]

Oh and Page-40-Transcend is a jerk.

[massive]

Massive hasn't game solved at all. I made a lazy, ignorant play because I wasn't paying attention and he attempted to claim he had a part in that stating it was his "plan". I don't believe that at all. Cheap way to get cred.

Shade will get you nowhere bro.

[massive]

There's something in 912 that makes me think FourTrouble is town in this game and has been town in every game he's played so far.

[massive]

There was a reason I voted lapsa before I realized he was conf town.

So don't leave us in suspense, what was it?

[massive]

Massive hasn't attempted to game solve at all.

It sure seems like, for very early in your Mafia career, you certainly have picked up on one pretty good keyword. I wonder how many of the other 19 players you would qualify as "trying to game solve."

I already know you don't think Transcend is trying to game solve thanks to 1088. Why isn't Transcend in the name of players you keep namedropping?

(side note: tchill, 38: voted on transcend when everyone was voting transcend for his vote on lapsa. if that vote wasn't because lapsa was confirmed town and transcend had voted for him i would be interested to know what it WAS for)

This by the way is an awesome catch.

We shouldn't lynch Tchill today. For starters, if he were scum, he'd probably have realized that Lapsa was confirmed. Or if not, he'd probably have been told she was confirmed by his partners. It's possible he contrived it, or that he's careless/oblivious scum, but both scenarios are unlikely as compared with assuming he's lazy/clueless town.

Again, I can picture no circumstance under which you have ever been scum on this site. Why does being scum necessitate not realizing Lapsa is confirmed town? In that case everyone who ever voted for Lapsa would be conftown. Why do you believe his partners would pass along that information? WHEN do you believe his partners would have passed that information? Do you have inside knowledge of scum daytalk? Why is careless-town more likely than careless-scum?

===

I am unconvinced on Lore. Theta has 12 posts and should probably be replaced instead. So we need more Tchill votes.

[massive]

I'm weighing probabilities. I don't know if scum have daytalk but they usually do, so it's probable they do. If scum have daytalk, it's probable they discussed Lapsa's confirmation. If Tchill's scum, it's less likely he'd have been as careless as he's been, because scum usually aren't as careless as townies. You weigh the probabilities. They suggest Tchill's town.

No they do not. His actions may suggest he's not paying attention, but they do not suggest he (or scum in general) are less careless in that role. You are conflating your expectations with the MECHANICS of this game which are not proven, and you are using them to clear / suggest clearing someone based on them.

If you want to play that way then fine, but do not expect the rest of us to follow you when that's Not How It Works.

[massive]

massive I noticed you tried to take credit for what was a lazy vote on lapsa on my end. There's not many people "gamesolving" but you tried to look like you were when you claimed credit for my lapsa vote. I would definitely have payed more attention to the beginning of the game if I was scum. I hate rvs, ignored the game for a bit then it got away from me. I had like 10 to 15 pages to catch up on and I didn't read them very well before interacting a bit.

Uh cat I think you got it backwards. I want YOU to take credit for your vote. I didn't make you do anything.

===

You're the one voting Tchill. Why? From what I can tell, it's because he voted Lapsa. In your words, he "forgot" the confirmation. Why would scum be more likely to forget a confirmation than town? What do scum stand to gain from that?

It's not that he "forgot" the confirmation. It's that he saw an easy wagon on someone he had zero reason to scumread, and hopped onto it for no reason other than to perpetuate the wagon. THAT is how scum vote. They don't have actual scumreads so they just have to go along with the flow, and he saw that quick succession of votes and decided to go along with it.

Your argument here is that Tchill is just lazy. That he would ask this during the FIRST round of Lapsa voting:

Lapsa is confirmed town? Did I miss something?

and not pay attention to the answer. That he would double down on it here:

There was a reason I voted lapsa before I realized he was conf town.

and then give us "I thought he was scummy" as that reason in 1000, yet there being nothing in his ISO indicating he had any type of lean on Lapsa?

Beyond that: "so-and-so needs more attention" without providing a start to that attention. Wants to direct wagons without being on them himself.
Beyond that: Isolating one person for "not game solving" as a reason for a scumread without, I don't know, looking at even the activity overview? Platinum has 5 posts. Texcat has 10. Heck I would say you could say Transcend isn't game-solving and not get much argument from some people. It's a buzzword with absolutely nothing to back it up.

We are going to agree to disagree on whether or not scum-daytalk is relevant, or whether or not scum-Tchill would be more or less likely to bumble into a IC vote than town-Tchill. But you are looking at NAI (at best) things to call Tchill town, even at 51-49.

But I'm going to keep my vote right here.

Oh and saying this is an interesting misrep:

Gamma's defending Theta. Massive's defending Theta. There's lots of information to look at re: Theta's flip.

I don't even think I've mentioned Theta, so please quote this?

[massive]

Oh I did mention Theta! Is this defending Theta?

Theta has six posts and the vote is RVS.

[massive]

I don't know that I actually know your case on Theta, but Tchill is scum regardless of it.

[massive]

Also, how many of those associatives have to be town before Theta is town? If it's not a two-way street, then I'm super confused.

[massive]

The problem is that you're trying to use corroborative evidence to prove something that's OPINION. It's your interpretation of Theta's playstyle. If you can prove that Theta has a different style when scum or town, then you need to do that. Otherwise you're just "proving" something that only you believe. Posting style is NAI. Activity is NAI.

You're way too tryhard here to be scum. But you're going about this the wrong way IMHO.

[massive]

It's only "evidence" if it relates to facts. Otherwise it's just "an additional opinion."

But I can be left out of this. Let's go back to lynching Tchill.

[massive]

Look at pisskop getting into the rap game.

[massive]

@Townies

Theta's listing reads in the order of the player list, which suggests she's reading ISOs, not the game. Think about what that means for Theta's alignment.

HOLY SHIT

Spoiler:

That means nothing

Was expecting an awesome GIF, wuz robbed. But did lol.

[massive]

If Theta is an alt and it is who I think it is, I'm a bad person to ask as I probably always scumread them no matter what and they've sworn up and down to never join a game I'm in.

[massive]

That's a copout to some degree. My read on Theta is:

Theta's thing with Gamma is fine. If I scumread Gamma in one ongoing game, and he does the same stuff here, regardless of what his actual alignment ends up, it's still helping to inform an opinion. Eventually I may learn "Gamma does X scummy thing as town" versus "Gamma does X scummy thing as scum" but the answer might be "Gamma is just a scummy scumfuck regardless of alignment" -- and that shouldn't mean I should scumread him less. That a bit obtuse but tldr I don't have a problem with her using another ongoing to help inform her thoughts on Gamma, and I don't think it's indicative one way or the other.

Focus on Gamma is still there in so the opinion isn't just a throwaway one -- she brings it up when talking about pisskop and says more information would be helpful. So it looks like genuinely trying to sort Gamma there.

(also everyone should rhyme when talking about MuttonChopMagic
unless you can't rhyme which is really kinda ... I don't know what's another word for sad?)

[post=1154]1154 isn't great -- she went through the trouble of linking up some Transcend posts as "examples of game solving" (srsly you guys and that phrase) but they're hands-down the worst examples she could have linked. Lots of throwaway one-liners that I don't see as alignment-indicative.

And the "scumread" on Penguin for what a dozen posts? and the OMGUS vote back on you, not the greatest examples of play.

But are they scummy? Bad yes, but I'm not sold on scummy. A good part of your "case" on Theta was that this was all elaborately planned by the daytalking scum. Do you feel like that is still the case? That Theta is carrying out some highly-skilled devious scheme?

[massive]

Oh I hate myself.

[massive]

I may be conflating all of this "scum daytalk" stuff. Tell me how it helps you get a Tchill townread but still points to Theta scum.

[massive]

IE, why would daytalking scum help set scum-Tchill on the straight and narrow regarding Lapsa, but daytalking scum would still let Theta wander around giving off all these scum tells?

[massive]

*spins the top*

[massive]

 As town, it's easy to skim a game and say things impulsively without thinking them through, because town rarely worry about how suspicious they appear until they actually come under pressure. But as scum, we tend to become more self-conscious about what we're posting, regardless of how much pressure we're under, because we focus more on avoiding suspicion in the first place, and that leads to less carelessness

Everyone is different on this. Some people want to control the game as scum while others will try to coast. Some people want to solve the game and lead lynches as town while others let people do it for them and just try to pick the right side of a fight. And I disagree that everyone is more self conscious as scum. I'm always self conscious lol.

It's even worse than that. Some players have an obvious town vanilla game and an obvious town power role game. Twoface I'm pretty sure I can tell WHAT KIND of power role he has in some instances.

ABR's probably scum. He's typically more motivated as town to do things.

Please point me to games you've shared with him.

[massive]

Please point me to games you've shared with him.

I don't think I've shared one with him.

I am SUPER curious where your ABR meta comes from then.

[massive]

HEY Y'ALL I GOT MORE SPAGHETTI WE CAN THROW AT THIS WALL TO SEE WHAT STICKS

[massive]

OK, I'm here. Tchill seems to be a non-starter today so I'm looking at the other wagons, if anyone wants to point me towards specifics.

[massive]

I'm not sure why scum-Penguin would sit on this Transcend wagon (and push it!) for the same IC-voting stuff from the very beginning. Someone tell me how that serves scum's win condition.

[massive]

184 isn't how townies think about the game. It's mechanical. This is what I see: "Transcend's scum; Egg's defending Transcend; therefore Egg is Transcend's buddy."

This to me is just the normal hyperbolic over-the-top response that I see from modern Mafiascum players. Trying to make a case out of just this is never going to hold water because I bet at least three of the people you hope to get on this wagon have done this exact thing in their last three games.

I'm not sure why scum-Penguin would sit on this Transcend wagon (and push it!) for the same IC-voting stuff from the very beginning. Someone tell me how that serves scum's win condition.

It depends on Transcend's alignment:

If Transcend's town, it's a mislynch. If you're asking why the reasoning sucks, it's because contriving scumreads on town isn't easy.

If Transcend's scum, it's to distance. If Transcend's his buddy, Penguin's distancing with reasoning that won't get Transcend lynched, hence shitty reasoning.

You're answering "why would scum-Penguin vote Transcend" and not "why would he sit there and push the wagon, on the weakest of reasons, in most of his admittedly very few posts, with the likelihood that it goes absolutely nowhere, when he would be better served by being flexible with his vote and changing to a wagon that might go someplace."

[massive]

I swear the next one of you that uses "game-solving" is gonna eat a dayvig.

[massive]

Lore, why are you voting no one?

[massive]

This to me is just the normal hyperbolic over-the-top response that I see from modern Mafiascum players. Trying to make a case out of just this is never going to hold water because I bet at least three of the people you hope to get on this wagon have done this exact thing in their last three games.

The response isn't "normal hyperbolic over-the-top." It's thoughtless, mechanical, and unrealistic, because at that point in the game Egg was by far the most townie player in the game. I doubt Penguin's reads are this thoughtless, mechanical, and unrealistic as town.

You're answering "why would scum-Penguin vote Transcend" and not "why would he sit there and push the wagon, on the weakest of reasons, in most of his admittedly very few posts, with the likelihood that it goes absolutely nowhere, when he would be better served by being flexible with his vote and changing to a wagon that might go someplace."

Why are you interpreting this as a town-tell?

It's throwaway. You and I both agree it's throwaway, we're just seeing different reasons for it. You see it as being purposefully done in a hope to sway someone's opinion. I see it as a junk comment made on a junk read. And it's NAI, not a town tell. Which is why I ask why you think it's scummy, because I don't see it as anything to even include in a read.

Massive, have you made any attempts to sort Mutton?

I haven't and I doubt I will today, but I feel like Ginngie is town and would defer to her most likely. You also asked about PMyst and I don't need to quote it but will say I think PMyst is OK right now. I like that he is willing to put his opinions out and defend them where they are WILDLY different from the established consensus -- scum would find a way to match thoughts better.

[massive]

It's throwaway. You and I both agree it's throwaway, we're just seeing different reasons for it. You see it as being purposefully done in a hope to sway someone's opinion. I see it as a junk comment made on a junk read. And it's NAI, not a town tell. Which is why I ask why you think it's scummy, because I don't see it as anything to even include in a read.

I didn't say the vote on Transcend was scummy. My point is that it's consistent with a scum perspective. Penguin's scumtell is his mechanical response to Egg.

And my point is that it's not. Town are just as likely to make that statement. You read it as "mechanical" as in it's forced or purposefully contrived. I read it as banter. I see way more examples of the latter in today's players than the former. Let me put it to you this way: Do you see any other examples in Penguin's postings that would indicate he is a scum with a well-thought-out scum gameplan?

Massive, have you looked at Tchill's newbie game?

I'm not really a "read other games" kinda guy. What would you hope I would gain from this?

[massive]

If people aren't thinking their actions through, it's impossible to believe there's a specific motive behind it.

[massive]

Also, I made it to post #6 I believe in Tchill's completed game before I noted that his initial scum game plan was to kowtow to experienced players and it reminded me how somehow he went from scumreading me for not gamesolving to suddenly townreading me for tunnelling him. Huh.

[massive]

Townies have some sort of thought process for their reads; scum don't.

And RIGHT HERE

IN THIS MOMENT

is where you and I disagree, and it comes down to this one sentence. Expecting townies to "have a thought process" or act otherwise townie ESPECIALLY in the current state of Mafiascum is asking too much. Expecting mafia to not be able to generate an authentic-looking read or act otherwise scummy is the same. If it was this easy there would be no point in playing the game. That's why, to me, the throwaway "so-and-so's partner" is NAI.

And now you may all get off my lawn.

[massive]

I mean, I think FourTrouble is town so I want to stop arguing semantics. I think we're getting distracted from hunting scum. I'm thankful we did so in a polite and conjugal manner rather than a rap battle with all sorts of nasty words because I think we all know I can't rhyme.

I played in a Princess Bride themed mini in 2003 where I was Fezzig and in order to use my doctor ability each night, I had to quote another player and then rhyme them in my response three times during the game day. Hardest mini ever. I had some real stretches in there.

[massive]

OK, I can look at that Ginngie.

[massive]

So Ginngie talk to me about 161. This looks town, like, I can't see even bad scum wanting to take on Gamma based on things that seem so NAI they could make up an episode of That's So Mafiascum. They'd be putting their neck out against someone who they already know is possibly going to have "extreme" or "jerkish" reactions. Why does scum-PMysterious make this post?

[massive]

Real quick: It's anti-town, and current Mafiascum protocol is to differentiate that from scummy. Town players play in anti-town ways all the time, whether it's out of boredom, spite, willful trolling, ignorance, or clumsiness. You say "Penguin's response to Egg can't come from town" and I tell you I can give you a dozen examples of town doing That Exact Thing if you want to wait for them. Heck I would even be willing to try to limit myself to people in this game who have done it and who aren't standing up and saying "oh yeah I've done that as town" because I bet pisskop and Transcend AT LEAST have done it. Maybe even Ginngie.

Re: 161 vs the rest -- I haven't yet. I came back here because I wanted to engage Ginngie on 161 specifically and then got caught up in work. So I'll keep going through PMyst shortly.

[massive]

Tchill: Why does lynching you as town put us in a worse position, but you're ok lynching Theta who you can't tell the alignment of?

[massive]

Does scum-PMyst continue to push Gamma when Gamma OMGUSes him back? Or does scum-PMyst just walk it back? Calls it in 744 (Gamma's wagon is definitely evaporating at that time); does eventually say "well maybe I overreacted" and walk it back in 1581, so maybe that's where PMyst decides to jump ship. I don't know, maybe PMyst has balls of steel or something.

Looking at his overall reads list, I don't understand how I can be "null" due to good content vs fluff, and somehow Transcend is still "null" as well and merits zero comment about his fluffposting. ME! Over TRANSCEND! I'm insulted.

[massive]

Okay, maybe I did come off as eager, but hey, at least Scum won't have the advantage of the RV stage anymore, and that's what counts in the end. Less fluff, more communication of actual things that matter.

(announcer) What we DIDN'T tell PMysterious is that we secretly replaced his expected discussion of actual things that matter with 100% MORE FLUFF! Let's see how he reacts!

[massive]

Like

Nothing Lore is saying is inherently wrong

But

It's so top-level

Like

There's no way the five people we're talking about today are exactly the five scum, but since we're talking about them they're at the forefront of her mind and she figures that while it's an easy answer, it's an answer that everyone would swallow?

[massive]

but

at the same time it's consistent with her posts up to this point

oh let me finish good woman

[massive]

Well, I was still thinking!

If it's Transcend 1v1 Lore I'm gonna vote Transcend, but I think Tchill is still the better lynch.

[massive]

Vedith is there a "Why Whymafia" in your ISO? I skimmed it but didn't see it.

[massive]

Did you posit a case on WhyMafia in your ISO? Your vote came in your readslist without an explanation and while I skimmed your ISO, I thought it would be easier to come back here and ask since I was just skimming it.

PEDIT: OK. As I noted, he was the bottom of your readslist and so pushing him makes sense but I didn't see anything beyond that, so let me go back and look at him. So far that's at least a name I'm not immediately like "what why?" about.

[massive]

Im not at a PC right now so I'm not quoting however...
WhyMafia lacks any real content or Scum hunting. When I was originally speaking with Pisskop, WhyMafia pinged me as Oppornist for his ridicules vote. Every time WhyMafia speaks about a player being Scum it's more of a question to try an see a general opinion or just very passive.
I have no understanding of what level WhyMafia has with the game and like I just said, he has no content including moving the game forward or resolving.
I'll have to go over the posts with Scum calling or voting which may explain it better.

No, I think that's a good start. I saw some of the same things.

When he's on Gamma's wagon, he is happy to call other people (specifically Tchill) scum but he is stuck to the Gamma wagon. When he finally decides to abandon the Gamma wagon it's onto pisskop for something abstract and (more questionably) NOT onto Tchill who has a counterwagon at that time. But he never really pushes pisskop -- just makes a few snarky answers.

And the "questioning scumread check" is another good one, since he just did it with Texcat:

Question:
Am I the only one that thinks Tex is scum?
Sorry, it's just the volume of posts make it quite hard to fully grasp what's going on in the game

I also kind of hate his soft-defense of Transcend during the "let's vote Transcend for voting the IC" phase of the early game. He's definitely more invested in defending Transcend than I think even Transcend was.

This is probably a good direction to go if we aren't lynching Tchill.

VOTE: WhyMafia

[massive]

VOTE: Transcend

[massive]

Yes, we get it, you're going to continue to refuse to be helpful. Well done you.

[massive]

A ... SISTER!

[massive]

Hate you guys. Catching up from somewhere in the 90s.

[massive]

What happened?

[massive]

Neo is a cop with VT's

I assume someone has come on and corrected Ginngie for the number of times she said "Neo is a cop with VTs" and pointed out it's a vanilla cop (ie, gets "vanilla" for both VTs and Mafia stooges) right?

[massive]

HE CLEARS AND PROTECTS ONLY VANILLA TOWNS

At some point right?

[massive]

huh

learn something every day

[massive]

Y'all coulda just said "p118"

[massive]

Oh thanks for the heads-up

[massive]

VOTE: Judge

[massive]

Well I see we're all back to our well-behaved selves.

[massive]

Is there some reason Waffles' claim couldn't be real AND he still be scum? Seems like a pretty advanced fakeclaim. If it's real but scumsided, it interacts with the Day-X vigs as a downside, but Mafia is way more interested in who's vanilla and who's not.

I don't see any way Lore isn't town.

[massive]

With Dredd flipping town and PM's promise to immediately claim on daybreak, I can see why they might also target PM. But it's speculation. We don't need to know right now why there wasn't another night kill last night.

[massive]

I'm also willing to let Waffles check me, if we want to have another option and we want to let Waffles live.

[massive]

I'm beginning to really hate trying to work with Vedith and then having him scumread me.

[massive]

There was no vote count and we were actively discussing how to test Waffles's claim. Why would I vote that?

And yeah pisskop is scum, since he knows i'm always quiet and that activity is NAI.

[massive]

I assume by "get Lore" you mean "a present since she's so town."

[massive]

Catching up from 3408.

[massive]

Not much but at least Srceen did more townie things in gen posts than Alexa did the whole first day.

Any of these wagons are fine by me but a vote count would be nice Boons.

[massive]

Man y'all startin' up counterwagons like there's a run on 'em at Costco.

Vedith, what exactly happened that caused you to flip from "push the Waffles wagon" to "form every counterwagon"?

[massive]

Vedith, what exactly happened that caused you to flip from "push the Waffles wagon" to "form every counterwagon"?

[massive]

Vedith, what exactly happened that caused you to flip from "push the Waffles wagon" to "form every counterwagon"?

I responded to this post.
Once again... You aren't reading.

Well I don't see it on this page, or since I asked it, but I guess let's also get when I wasn't reading previously that you feel it's ok to say "once again."

[massive]

VOTE: Waffles

[massive]

massive, why weren't you on the wagon earlier? Why suddenly now? Did you want to be off the wagon when it flipped town?

I didn't want to be on the wagon when I didn't know what the vote count was. I'm pretty sure I've said that before. And honestly, the more Vedith fights against it, the more I feel like I want to be on it. (Since I'm unlikely to find a bunch of other people to push Vedith.)

[massive]

I said basically you were in one of the conversations where I say why it's a good idea to not lynch Waffles.

So it's the "we can test him again tonight" thing? Do we have any confirmation from him that he is willing to do this? Do you still feel strongly about removing me as another possible candidate?

Because over half the players voting Judge did it purely because of out side influence like morons.
Before that Judge was no where near the prime lynch.

See it's stuff like this that make me want to vote for you. It wasn't "outside influence," it was the previous owner of the slot coming into the thread and ACTUALLY CLAIMING SCUM. Talking about it like it was predicated on some random occurrence isn't being accurate and you know it. And I notice that Waffles has a chance to point that out and just corrects the reason without blasting you for misrepping it.

[massive]

What exactly is the "long time ago" that scum would have killed Waffles?

[massive]

Or you're naive, one of those two is probably correct.

[massive]

don't tell me that you just gonna tunnel Transcend all day long

OH THE IRONY

unvote

I'll play along as long as Waffles agrees to include me in his possible check pool.

Titus, let's townblock.

[massive]

You hush.

[massive]

Titus, because I know how to read ABR and I have a pretty good way (I think) of determining your alignment as well. And you should know by now I'm town.

[massive]

@massive, Why should I know you're town?

Because I'm trying to sort you rather than avoid you.

Titus, because I know how to read ABR and I have a pretty good way (I think) of determining your alignment as well. And you should know by now I'm town.

What have you said or done since Titus came in a hats obviously town?

What, is my ISO off-limits?

[massive]

Is there absolutely anything that you can point to re: Egg? He's a pretty universal townread.

[massive]

I don't think the two quotes are related here.

She's right. "I'm trying to sort you rather than avoid you" is why she should townread me, but that's not what I've said that's objectively townie, which is what you were asking Srceen (and I was being snarky about). I haven't done anything obviously town to anyone else, I don't think. Or I don't know, have I?

[massive]

Crush, how did I go from "not wanting to lynch" 1118 to the lower echelon of being scum? How did ABR / Titus get down there? In 2027 you seem at best ambivalent about the slot.

[massive]

Catching up from daystart.

[massive]

Fun question; we cant setup spec but i think massive takes a real hit for that.

Explain this. My spec was that Waffles could be telling the truth about his role but still scum. I'm not sure what my motivation to say that would be if I was scum myself, especially since that would mean I didn't know he was scum.

[massive]

It sparkled at me like a teenage protagonist.

This is bad and you should feel bad.

Also, didn't we already have a discussion on who was scum if it was multiball? Didn't that happen between you and Vedith yesterday? Weren't you BOTH supposed to be scum if it turned out to be multiball?

[massive]

4357 is shit on a stick, and its raunchy smell should offend every here.

I assume you think I'm on the other mafia with Vedith, huh.

[massive]

Yeah I should probably contribute. I thought I had done pretty good up to now but I really hate all these tired same-old-same-old wagons.

[massive]

If you feel like DANNNNNCCIIIIIIINNNN

oh heck you pisskop

[massive]

Yeah I'm fine with WhyMafia.

VOTE: WhyMafia

[massive]

I am 5 pages in and I saw so much fluff I want to take my eyes out.

Ok

We all took a solemn oath to help Boon get the largest Mafia game thread ever.

[massive]

Srceen do you want to go back and revisit Lore for some reason?

[massive]

Basically whymafia you're scum because you don't look town. I'm willing to put this on the back burner for the time being. Now why did you vote fykus?

VOTE: fykus

[picard-wtf.gif]

[massive]

Yeah I saw that too Egg.

Tchill: here I got you. Tchill your reads are horrible.

[massive]

Like I could honestly see one family being Transcend-Vedith-PP and them just LAUGHING AND LAUGHING in the scum thread.

[massive]

VOTE: Fykus

[massive]

Tchill please find a trustworthy townie and Sheep them. I mean this in the nicest way but clearly you don't have experience with multiball to realize that scum are going to appear townie because they need to legitimately hunt scum themselves.

[massive]

Sure would like to see a more well-rounded reads list from Titus.

[massive]

If you think pisskop and Transcend go together, wouldn't it be better to lynch pisskop?

[massive]

Explain how

Because if you're wrong you don't lynch an actual helpful role?

---

I could lynch Titus maybe too. Would like to see that promised reads list.

[massive]

Hence the voting of Fykus doggo

[massive]

I have no idea how I'm a Titus townread.

[massive]

Hey check out my sweet reading comprehension!

ummmmmm

hunh. you know, Ima let the day play out first

Well you seem to know something and on some level agree with me since your vote is on trans too

If you think pisskop and Transcend go together, wouldn't it be better to lynch pisskop?

[massive]

I don't know that I think you and Transcend go together, my question was to point out how Fykus' shade on you didn't match up with his vote on Transcend and not you.

[massive]

That reading comprehensions is certainly ....... special.

And yet somehow Fykus understood what I was asking and answered it. Go figure.

I think there's too many scenarios where pisskop is town here. But I don't get the leap to "I prevented the nightkill" (and yes I read 4803) because if one assumes Transcend is the black mafia version of Waffles, and that Waffles was successfully recruited N1 (due to the missed kill), then there's no point where a missing nightkill means Transcend was recruited. It can't be last night because he was jailed. It seems way more likely that the jailing prevented one scum faction from killing / targeting Transcend instead.

Of course, that doesn't mean Transcend is town, it just means that I don't understand how 100% he's scum.

The problem with "pisskop is scum roleblocker / jailkeeper" is that it doesn't change whether Transcend is scum at all, so I'm not sure why it would be a viable defense?

[massive]

The missing kill confirms.

HOW does the missing kill confirm Transcend-scum?

---

it hink i might have been sAvEd

I think so too but this doesn't mean you aren't scum so why is this your defense?

[massive]

[ das nasty gif ]

[massive]

Well, I was thinking that the recruit wouldn't go through since the "kill" wouldn't go through, but I guess it's possible that it's different. Probably should ask for clarification.

Mod: In a theoretical universe where SlingshotWaffles would have been targetted with the nightkill and a jailkeep, would the recruit have gone through?

[massive]

Yeah I wanted to clarify the actual question and I saw yours was kinda half-assed so I went ahead and hit submit, since mine worked off of known flips rather than leaving the mod some ambiguity when replying. Like, you should know that, if we want a whole answer we can't depend on the mod being willing to confirm you one way or the other, so why work your own alignment / role into the question?

[massive]

Like, the definition of useless.

[massive]

Hey PP, do you agree that if Transcend is scum he hasn't been recruited?

[massive]

(and if so, does that even matter? I just realized I have no idea how they start out, but looking at Waffles' role it looks like they're always just scum anyways)

[massive]

I'm having second thoughts about Fykus.

[massive]

4729 for instance makes a lot more sense now.

unvote

[massive]

Egg I'm having trouble reconciling both 3766 and 3809 with someone who performed a night action on Waffles N1. They both have some subtle defenses of Waffles, but I cannot figure out what power you might have that would cause you to act on him N1 and still be OK defending him D2. I'm not trying to get you to out your role, just speak about how your D2 defense of Waffles might line up even a little?

[massive]

Yeah I guess we do need to have some more info from Egg.

VOTE: Egg

[massive]

Like, Egg, I know you know this, but posting scumhunting isn't helping any of us get back to townreading you. Scum need to scumhunt too.

[massive]

Actually

Is there a reason you don't want me scumhunting?

Because that's kind of a weird post coming from someone I just said could be scum with transcend.

I want you addressing your N1 visit of Waffles better. The longer you duck it the scummier it gets.

[massive]

I see you PP.

[massive]

I'm with pisskop. It's absolutely nothing that wasn't public knowledge already.

[massive]

Egg, you say "never seen Titus so detached," does that mean as either town or scum?

[massive]

Massive post soon.

-ZZZX

DING MENTION

[massive]

I will lynch Titus. It's also getting pretty obvious to spot the scum when they keep saying "oh no it's in the best interest of the town for me not to fully reveal all my information."

--

Also we had two kills last night so there's likely one each.

[massive]

I feel like even Detective Doggo could figure out we have two killing factions left.

[massive]

Like, why would Titus post "Srceen is scum, Egg probably is" when we already lynched Egg and found out categorically he was scum?

[massive]

Lynch D1

Judge Joseph Dredd

[11]: FourTrouble (now ZZZX),

MuttonChopMagic

,

Ginngie

,

Tchill13

,

SlingshotWaffles

,

Crush

,

Lore

,

Egg

, massive, texcat,

PMysterious

--- [LYNCH]

Transcend

[4]:

PenguinPower

,

Judge Joseph Dredd

,

Lapsa

,

Transcend

SlingshotWaffles

[3]: Albert B. Rampage,

Gamma Emerald

, Lexa (now Srceenplay)

I think it's crazy that our two counterwagons D1 were on scum and that had we not ended up lynching JJD because of the shenanigans, we were on the right path. No pink mafia on Transcend makes it more likely there's another pink on JJD I think, and more likely that that pink jumped from Transcend to JJD, so I guess let's look at texcat's voting history ... went from Lapsa to JJD, so that's not real helpful. FourTrouble went from Waffles to JJD. I don't know what that means, if anything.

Actually the most likely to be scum I guess is me, since I did jump from Transcend to JJD.

1.11 Egg jumps from Transcend to ... nowhere.

Oh I see, the top wagon in 1.12 is Waffles and he can't jump there, so there's another pink on Waffles in 1.12:

SlingshotWaffles

[10]: FourTrouble (now ZZZX), Albert B. Rampage (now Titus),

Gamma Emerald

,

Transcend

, Lexa (now Srceenplay),

PMysterious

, Vedith,

MuttonChopMagic

,

Ginngie

,

Tchill13

,

Lynch D2

Crush

[10]:

Tchill13

, Vedith,

WhyMafia

,

PenguinPower

,

jjh927

,

Transcend

, Titus, Pisskop,

SlingshotWaffles

,

Fykus

---- [LYNCH]

SlingshotWaffles

[2]: texcat,

Crush

,

Assuming three-man teams, it seems unlikely that any of those remaining unknowns on this lynch are black mafia.

Lynch D3

WhyMafia

[9]:

Transcend

,

Fykus

, pisskop,

Egg

, texcat, massive,

Assemblerotws

,

Shinobi

,

WhyMafia

----- [LYNCH]
Titus [2]:

Lapsa

, Vedith

Egg

[2]: Srceenplay, Titus

Same with this one.

Titus / ABR ending two of the three lynches on pink mafia? That's ... weird.

Lynch D4

Transcend

[8]:

Fykus

, Pisskop,

PenguinPower

,

Assemblerotws

,

Tchill13

, ZZZX, Srceenplay,

Transcend

----- [LYNCH]

Needs a pink. Since we need a pink on D1 Lynch, 1.12, AND D4 Lynch that means it's probably FourTrouble now ZZZX.

So I guess I'm

VOTE: ZZZX

[massive]

@massive what's the likelihood of 4-man balls?

I think we can probably rule it out. The traitor PMs said "You know X1 is one of your partners" and "you turn if you target X2, your unknown partner" (paraphrasing but you can go check out the exact words) so it seems like each traitor was looking to get added to a pair of scum.

I did consider 4/4 while I was writing that but decided even with scum crosskilling that 8 scum was a LOT for 21, which is more normally 6. The fact that the traitors actually got their factional kill if both of their partners died meant that it was less necessary to balance them not getting recruited.

[massive]

I'm kinda surprised Titus had zero to say about my VCA.

[massive]

Oh no, I'm rubbish at VCA, what you see is what I did. I am still early in my learning of VCA as a tool.

And I can see Titus Apathy for not doing her own. But I would expect her to at least look at mine and go, "that's rubbish." Even if Titus Apathy prevented her from going "here's why" or "here's a better one."

But I also think Titus is probably a question for another day. It just stood out to me as weird.

[massive]

Massclaim time?

[massive]

You are missing another possibility.
Someone didn't submit an action.

No I should not be the lynch.

Why is this your "another possibility" when you run at night?

[massive]

I have thoughts but I'm going to wait until the massclaim runs its course.

[massive]

Are there enough people who think I'm town that I can go last and we can get Titus to go next?

[massive]

So we are gonna have that discussion pisskop either way.

Yes, Mafiascum does have a name for Srceen's role, and it's Commuter -- and that's what I am. I spent some time after Srceen's claim trying to figure out if Boons would push this duality out to the town but I think if he DID that at the very least he'd call them the same thing, and that's Commuter, not Runner. I imagine we can ask him his limitation and compare, but right now I'm more inclined to believe that he thought he found a reasonable loophole and didn't expect to be counterclaimed.

[massive]

I waited because I wanted to ensure that I wasn't jumping the gun. We have two killing parties and someone might have gotten a wild hair and tried to fakeclaim something else that might explain no nightkill last night. There was no danger to town and I think I made it pretty clear I didn't believe his claim. And since Titus is the other party I feel least confident in being town, by the time popcorn got to me, I didn't feel bad asking her to claim before me.

I don't crumb well and I don't think commuter is something you crumb. There's no information to be gained after death and there's no benefit to town to out it until a nightkill is missed.

Srceen hasn't disclosed what his limitation is yet, I noticed.

[massive]

I'm afraid your vagueness is going to get you lynched. You practically need to match up with me exactly for me to even consider not lynching you.

And I'm not sure what you're asking about Titus.

[massive]

I've already said I didn't crumb, pisskop.

I'm walking back through some of my previous thoughts. Honestly any of you could be scum which is what makes multiball hard for me.

Srceen, you asked what Titus could have said that would have made a difference, and I don't know that there was, but it cost me zero to find out. And you said I scumread her, when the actual answer is "I don't know how I feel about her."

Texcat: Well I wasn't until NOW

[massive]

Lynch D1

Judge Joseph Dredd

[11]:

FourTrouble (now ZZZX)

,

MuttonChopMagic

,

Ginngie

,

Tchill13

,

SlingshotWaffles

,

Crush

,

Lore

,

Egg

, massive, texcat,

PMysterious

--- [LYNCH]

Transcend

[4]:

PenguinPower

,

Judge Joseph Dredd

,

Lapsa

,

Transcend

SlingshotWaffles

[3]: Albert B. Rampage (now Titus),

Gamma Emerald

, Lexa (now Srceenplay)

Ew, I fucked this up and had Egg as black when he was pink. So it looks like texcat is the last black Mafia. And it seems like she knows at least one of us is scum since she's pushing the "both town or both scum" angle, hoping to either mislynch me today or push for my mislynch tomorrow after Srceen flipping scum. (Course she doesn't know which of us she's mislynching, but it doesn't matter to her ultimate wincon, mislynch today or mislynch the other tomorrow works either way. She SHOULD be pushing to lynch scum so she can avoid getting herself shot tonight.)

[massive]

We're gonna play semantics so OK, I'm sure someone can point out "I feel least confident about her being town" is probably pretty close to "I don't know how I feel about her."

[massive]

Vedith what do you think about the Runner v. Commuter?

[massive]

No, I am not odd/even.

[massive]

The thing with Massive. Screen should be clear Scum to him and yet he's not voting him.
He doesn't seem to be trying very hard in pushing Screen where I'm currently reading Screen as more genuine.

I'm not. It's because of the duality of everything else. Two bunyips, two single-day vigs, two traitors. I'm trying to be careful since I also think this is MYLO (or at least, if it's not, that tomorrow hinges on today and this specific interaction). Why aren't you asking Srceenplay why he isn't being careful or considering the duality?

If not that role, why does Screen claim it as Scum instead of VT?

Because he figured it was a safe claim for the missed kill. Because he figured he might be able to draw out the real reason for the missed kill. Come on Vedith you should be able to answer these yourself.

[massive]

VOTE: Srceenplay

[massive]

Your questions are either designed to inject confusion or play to WIFOM or me outguessing the mod. That seemed like a perfect response.

[massive]

I mean, you obviously aren't trying to figure this out, you straight-shot voted me immediately after my CC of you and began throwing shade at me, so why pretend to be building an actual case against me now?

[massive]

I don't know if it IS reasonable. But I wanted to explore all options. It could be a red herring, like having a ninja with no watcher. Boons is a slippery little bugger. Which is why I've been asking about the limitation. It gives me more information to try and figure out if it's a fake claim or a red herring. But you don't seem to have any of that curiosity. You went straight to the 1v1, because there isn't a place in your world where we're both town -- you have to be all-in on the "massive is scum" line because that's how you get to tomorrow.

[massive]

So ... you guys want to purposefully lynch town?

[massive]

There's no way for town to no-lynch here and be in control of their own destiny. We need to guarantee ourselves access to two lynches and no-lynching here removes our options. We can't rely on scum to act how we want, even if we think it's in their best interests.

[massive]

Um, I think that's basically what I just said

Well, yes. I had a different way I started thinking and then got to where I was the long way around.

[massive]

Lynch scum. That's what we do.

[massive]

Any feedback on why, Vedith?

[massive]

I think you need to be looking at people's names rather than their avatars, because what you've described is exactly the opposite of what's happening.

[massive]

Man I will be sore if I successfully commuted a nightkill and I get mislynched the next day.

[massive]

Let me fullclaim.

[massive]

Non-consecutive commuter. Commuted n2 and n6.

[massive]

The answer is "because Texcat is the other scum" but I think I outlined that earlier.

[massive]

Man that was an ugly lynch.

[massive]

Pisskop I hope you figure out how to win this for town because it don't look good.