Large Normal 204: BooneyToonz III - Calling All Cryptids!END

[Egg]

I don't like either pmyst's or gamma's reaction to lapsa being confirmed town. Pmyst commenting on it being "quick" feels like he wasn't happy about it. Gamma is the exact opposite, seeming to exaggarate his happiness. It's weird how both initially took pisskop's "always town" comment so seriously too. Both players have made a post I liked though (26 and 33).

Fourtrouble, why should we lynch transcend?

And why does pmyst feel town?

(I see you retracted that)

Not a fan of pisskop buddying to ABR.

Tchill, why the naked vote on transcend?

Whymafia is coming off nervous, but also noticed a couple of the same things I did.

Gamma, what is forced about saying hi?

Theta, care to elaborate on your "reasons"?

Texcat, why don't you seem happy with a confirmed town?

Vote Gamma

[Egg]

Oh, so it's just personal lol

[Egg]

I think it's the exclamation point.

[Egg]

Are you drunk?

[Egg]

Lapsa is confirmed town? Did I miss something?

My question unless this is your answer to it.

Fourtrouble, why should we lynch transcend?

Voting mod-confirmed town is scummy. It's similar to self-voting but much worse, much more pro-scum, because while a self-vote might lead to a meaningful wagon on yourself, voting mod-confirmed town leads to nothing, because mod-confirmed town isn't ever getting lynched. There's no possibility of deriving anything meaningful from Transcend's vote and that itself is scummy, it obscures his motives.

Ok, fair.

[Egg]

Roses are red,
Violets are blue.
Four is town
Egg is too.

Roses are red,
Violets are blue.
Gamma isn't.
That's the vote I shall do.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

That was beautiful.

and it is safe to assume that we are in multi-ball

Why is that? I see you chose not to explain once, but I don't get the assumption and it would drastically change the way we should scum hunt.

Why are you asking me what's forced about it? Fifth Amendment bitch!I was happy to start what seemed like an exciting game.

Uhhhh, because you're the one who said it was forced? I wasn't talking about your entrance.

Really an exclamation point makes you scumread me? How would you prefer I wrote it? The exclamation point adds a specific tone I was aiming for.

I was asked why it felt exaggarated so I went back and looked.

lapsa, youve gotten better too, it seems. at least, youre more vocal now

More buddying.

I will be perfectly honest when I say this. The reason I came off as "not happy" is because I was more so surprised, than anything. I never actually played a game with an Innocent Child involved, so that's where my reaction comes in. But hey, at least no one had to use a power role to find out that Lapsa is innocent, and that's perfectly fine with me.

That's pretty fair. I can see it.

___________________

This whymafia wagon is a good one.

[Egg]

PMysterious feels town.

I take back what I said about PM earlier.

You need more words on these

I thought PM's initial comment on the confirmation felt town. My response was similar ("wow, quick confirmation, too bad we didn't get the confirmation after more posting, after people took positions"). The rest of PM's posts changed my read. His posts are awkward, and over-qualifying his responses with shit like "honestly," which never sits well with me.

I like the thought process here. This is someone who wants to lynch the scums.

[Egg]

@egg & @four_trouble - can I ask you two to always vote in sync? really want you two working together as close as possible

P.s. I won't vote Transcend

I'm willing to do this if he'll vote for scum.

Like...

I don't see it in Crush. I don't understand where the votes are coming from and my early gut read on him says town.

I also don't agree with the Transcend votes. I mean I at least understand where those are coming from. It's "OMG HE VOTED THE IC DIE", but really he was just trying to be funny which happens in RVS from either town or scum. I'd get it if the issue was his reaction to the votes or something like that, but people are...oversimplifying or would it be overcomplicating it? It's like people think he expected to get a lynch or had some kind of ulterior motive. I guess it's overthinking. He made a joke and that's all.

But yeah when we get to crunch time and need to compromise, I'm willing to work with whoever just as long as the compromise is on someone who I'm ok with. Like I'm not gonna go "lapsa wants me to vote <insert strong town read> because fourtrouble is voting there" and I get that no one is going to do that if my scum reads are their strong town reads. But I do get the value of compromise late in a day.

[Egg]

Lol k

[Egg]

VOTE: PenguinPower

Why?

[Egg]

Lapsa, crush's attitude towards transcend seems like someone who is thinking critically. He seems to genuinely be trying to determine transcend's alignment. And his conclusion doesn't seem like one that scum would push the way he is.

Preview edit: do you see any other reasoning against transcend than that?

[Egg]

@penguin could you tell in your own words what you see in that quote?

the entirety. it's unnecessary (the Transcend wagon is small); he regurgitates WhyMafia's reasoning for the votes (even though no reasoning for the votes has been stated); AND, it's

uncomely

.

I don't understand your thought process but I appreciate the effort

He sees my attack on the reasoning as a soft defense that could come from a buddy. It's actually kind of fair for someone who scum reads transcend and doesn't know my alignment.

[Egg]

Fourtrouble, it starts here:

Because troll votes don't serve any purpose. No one would ever lynch a confirmed town, it's not pro-scum because it leads to nothing, his vote doesn't benefit scum in any way. I would say it's actually more pro-town because it evokes interactions like the one we're having, and that's all D1 is about.

He's looking at not just what happened (transcend voted lapsa) but why. Specifically, what motivation would scum have to do it. Then he comes to a conclusion I agree with which is a lack of scum motivation. Seeing it as town because lolreactions isn't something I agree with, but it's something I can follow and something I believed in years ago.

Yes it does, I think it's a bad reason to vote for him (granted it was the beginning of the day so you need some reason to vote) but I don't like the fact that 4 people jumped on him. And no I'm not trying to paint anyone scummy, I just think the reason for the vote is bad, that's all.

Then here, it would be easy for opportunistic scum looking for a safe push to say "the people who don't think how I do are scum". But he acknowledges that people can be wrong and still be town which is what he seems to believe is happening here.

I just really like the thought process he shows here and no one has given me any reason to think otherwise.

[Egg]

Then he

[Crush]

comes to a conclusion I agree with which is a lack of

[Transcend's]

scum motivation.

There's no possibility of deriving anything meaningful from Transcend's vote and

that itself is scummy,

it obscures his motives.

this is a very useful dissonance

both opinions are valid

I understand fourtrouble thinking that, but like I said, it's overthinking. I think transcends thought process was more "lol this would be funny, imma do it" than "oooo if I vote lapsa, no one will know what I actually want".

[Egg]

In my opinion it does. If scum have the opportunity to take an easy wagon, with solid reasoning they probably would. Meanwhile town would, or rather should, critically look and analyze everyone's posts, even if there's an easier lynch target. And I think it was obvious based on my other posts what I think on transcend (that he's null)
However, I don't like his wagon, which therefore is giving me a nulltown read (albeit very thin)

If scum have the opportunity to take an easy wagon with solid reasoning on town, sure. But that assumes the person is town, something scum do but not town. If town think someone is scum, regardless of whether it's an easy wagon (and maybe precisely because it's easy and solid), they'll vote that person as quickly as scum would (and maybe quicker if the player is in fact scum). My point is that the ease of a wagon doesn't tell you much about the alignments the wagoners unless you have a clear read on the player (and you've been pretty clear that you've got Transcend as null, which means the ease of the wagon shouldn't be entering your analysis).

I just feel like this is a scum driven wagon. I am not sure how to articulate this properly, but I feel that the faults of Transcend's posts were grossly exaggerated
Gahhh I know what you mean, but I just don't know how to properly say what I am trying to say

So who specifically is the scum pushing it? That's an empty statement without names. (I apologize if you covered this earlier and I missed it)

[Egg]

Because i had another scum read dipshit

That escalated quickly

[Egg]

I get hints of town from this. It's neutral towards his skills. Scum tend to downplay.

I think this is more personality. Like me personally, it depends on my mood. I typically feel like I'm a very good player, but when I'm in a bad mood I'm really hard on myself. I don't think my alignment in any one game has ever changed this. I also don't see how his platinum vote is town. Voting the guy with a weak entrance feels easier than you seem to think it is. And calling the word "hi" forced is possibly my biggest issue with gamma so far.

that was an eggcellent pun

Don't egg him on. We don't need everyone coming out of their shells and yolking around. We've got a game to crack.

<- never mind, pisskop wins.

[Egg]

Who is that directed at?

[Egg]

I was gonna ask for Vifam's thoughts but lapsa's post works too.

Ginngie, can you be more specific on why you don't want to give scum reads yet?

[Egg]

lynching transcend seems dumb for what was essentially a joke.

egg gives me townfeels at this point but idk theres not that much info yet

PMysterious seemed too literal when the game started, obviously pisskop has been scum before but does that lie matter or was it a joke that was blown out of proportion. but then later i think PM did some pretty good analysis on gamma so idk

I like WM explanation of transcend's meme vote (232). that makes sense to me, even though i think it was a dumb joke in the first place.

I think overall the lazer focus/L-4 on gamma is a bit fast, too fast for a wagon imo. my top scum reads are crush for avoiding voting and gin for being weird about scum reads but its still v early

I don't agree with everything in this post, but I like it for a town post. Not afraid to take solid stances. My one question is about the gamma wagon. You said it's fast, but I can't quite tell what your opinions on that are. Are you townreading gamma? Are you scumreading anyone for their vote on him?

[Egg]

Lore, see that's what I don't get. Usually having an issue with the speed of a wagon means you think scum are pushing it. But if you aren't scumreading anyone on the wagon, why point out how fast it is?

Fourtrouble, I was reading those both as being town reads. Maybe lore didn't seem confident, but that's ok. Lack of confidence can mean uncertainty which imples a lack of knowledge about alignments which is town. I also don't see it as just being safe reads like you say. A town read of pmyst is borderline between safe and not. Ginngie seems like the type of player who may push back on a scum read. And even the transcend stance (while yes it's been said by a select few) is mostly against the grain. Lore also gave two scum reads and neither is the two lead wagons so she's not afraid to be different. I really liked the post.

[Egg]

my top scum reads are crush for avoiding voting 

i agree with a lot of what crush has posted especially with it being a dumb way to lynch someone without more information. Their posts feel town to me right now.

Wait did I miss something?

[Egg]

I'm downgrading that town read I had on lore just a bit.

[Egg]

I've got more of a problem with tchill not giving a whole lot than ginngie, actually. Ginngie seems to blatantly not give a shit if she gets scumread for it. She seems to be doing it for her own reasons and if anyone dislikes it, too bad. That doesn't sound like scum trying to stay alive. Tchill on the other hand is quiet, under the radar, and giving thoughts that go with the consensus. (Actually, I typed this before reading Ginngie's reaction to ABR. Maybe it's not THAT town. I still think if Ginngie was that worried about it, she'd just give reads though.)

[Egg]

Gamma, What is scummy about wanting two wagons? I've heard people say it helps town to analyze things later and that seems to be the logic being used here.

ABR, I dunno. Like I said, if Ginngie was scum and you were so intimidating, wouldn't she just drop the whole not giving reads thing to appease you?

Transcend, wtf is that 180?

I have seen ABR play and it's not like this

Uhhh this is kind of exactly how ABR plays. He tunnels and doesn't say a ton yet manages to make people uncomfortable.

[Egg]

Gamma, What is scummy about wanting two wagons? I've heard people say it helps town to analyze things later and that seems to be the logic being used here.

ABR, I dunno. Like I said, if Ginngie was scum and you were so intimidating, wouldn't she just drop the whole not giving reads thing to appease you?

Transcend, wtf is that 180?

I have seen ABR play and it's not like this

Uhhh this is kind of exactly how ABR plays. He tunnels and doesn't say a ton yet manages to make people uncomfortable.

Wanting two wagons isn't scummy. Ginngie's call for it wasn't a "1 v 1 GO", it was "push these two and see what happens". Lexa's stance seems to be taking the idea and using it to wagon me for no discernible reason

I can buy this if you get lynched, flip town, and lexa is on the wagon. But lexa even said you're not a scum read so I'm fully expecting to see either that change or the vote come off. I don't read it as an opportunistic attempt to get you lynched.

The scum don't just acquiesce to you when you call them out. Acquiesce. I like saying that word. No, they reveal themselves in another way, they become defensive and look angry, like they want to fight. It's better for them to seemingly fight you than to pretend to have reads. You give them an easy out. They take the bait. It's as simple as that.

Hmm. It's hard not to agree with this, but I'm just not seeing scum in Ginngie's posting anywhere except that reaction to your vote. Everything else feels town.

___________________

Tchill, my point against you doesn't deserve a response? =(

[Egg]

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=28822

Literally the same Avi and everything XD

But different pronouns. Is one a mistake?

[Egg]

@Egg - what do you think of this Tchill guy?

I answered that when discussing Ginngie. I'm kind of tempted to abandon this gamma wagon and try to get one going here instead.

There's like this little tick, idk it's like someone sets off a switch and I just pounce. Psychology wise, I think it's because I can't believe someone would scum read and my ego rushes in to try and find out what is up.I dunno, it's just how I am and I get angry a lot, trying to turn new leaf to playing a lot more relaxed because this is a text based game on the internet but I haven't quite reached the point where I can be at peace when people scum read me yet.

I actually really relate to this. I've never handled criticism well in or out of mafia. I don't respond well when people call me stupid or talk down to me. It's interesting because I've never thought of it as an ego thing but maybe it is. And if it's the same thing as I deal with, it's completely null because you take yourself out of the game mentally when it happens and just defend against the attack and take it personally. I'd actually love to discuss this with you privately postgame if you'd be up for it because there's a chance it's the same thing I've been trying to understand about myself and control for quite some time and it sounds like you understand it a little more than I do

[Egg]

I like Tex too but for a different reason.

When you're done talking with massive about it, I'm curious what that is. Texcat hasn't really made an impression on me one way or another.

[Egg]

I liked Texcat's vote on Penguin. 184 felt mechanical. Cat's vote followed immediately. Don't think it's something she'd have done as scum.

I don't see why not. Penguin voted someone (transcend) and just accused the first person not on board with it (me) of being transcend's buddy. It's an easy thing to vote on. It's also a valid concern. If that was even texcat's reason for voting. It's a pretty null vote in my opinion.

ABR and Massive are both voting for Lapsa. Will the Transcend voters move over to ABR or Massive now?

I'm more interested in your thoughts on it and why you asked this.

______________

Unvote, Vote tchill

Think I'd rather do this than gamma.

[Egg]

Fourtrouble,

100% town:
Egg/Lapsa

Town reads:
ABR
Fourtrouble
Ginngie
Massive
Crush
Muttonchop

Null pile, townier on top, PoE scum on bottom (obviously I'll sort this list better as the game goes on):
Vifam
Penguin
Platinum
Lore
Lexa
Theta
Texcat
Pmyst
Transcend

Scum:
pisskop
Whymafia
Gamma
Tchill

[Egg]

@Egg - couple questions.

Why's ABR/Mutton town?

Why is Theta more town than Tex, PM, or Transcend?

Why's Piss scum?

Why's WhyMafia scum?

ABR is consistent with what I've seen in his town game. His scum game is a little more lurky and vote hoppy. He tunnels more as town and while I don't agree with him about ginngie, I believe that he believes his case.

Mutton is hard to read because of his gimmick, but he seems to be going out on a limb with gamma and thinking for himself with lore. I have a soft spot for people who go against the grain and he's kind of doing that.

Theta is pretty null for me. People are scumreading her posting style which I don't get and the fact that she's above those names has more to do with them than her. I had issues with tex's comments about the lapsa votes, specifcally her lack of opinion on it but choice to comment anyway. I had issues with pmyst's early posting although he's gotten better and I feel like I remember misreading him in a past game before. And Transcend's overreaction to pisskop kind of sucked.

Pisskop had a couple of cases of buddying that stood out to me. First with ABR and then with lapsa. It doesn't sound like much, but they were pretty blatant cases of it and the second could be an attempt to pocket the IC.

Whymafia is a hard one to explain because it's mostly a tone read. It's like he's...I dunno, struggling to fit in? Does that make sense? Like his focus is on blending rather than catching scum.

[Egg]

@Egg, does posting fluff/not posting give players town cred?

No.

[Egg]

Crush, I wouldn't say those names are high on my list. They ended up in the null pile for a reason. The one thing that stands out about penguin was his comment that I was transcend's buddy which I explained earlier makes sense from his perspective of not knowing my alignment, suspecting transcend, and seeing my post about the wagon. Vifam's ISO is pretty empty, but he's owning his play. Not making excuses and accepting people's thoughts. We'll see how he develops over time, but so far he's not on my radar. Platinum, I'm also hoping to see more from. All he did was vote gamma and it's hard to get a read because there's a good enough chance gamma is scum and that doesn't read like scum/scum, but it was pretty OMGUSy so I need more info.

Fourtrouble, when ABR is town, he might not give as much as some people but if you ISO him you can see a legitimate attempt to scum hunt and pressure scum reads. He's even more invisible as scum.

Massive, I think mutton would have done the gimmick as either alignment and he's not going to drop it now. It's null. And yes, I absolutely think it hurts his ability to play. But I've seen gimmick alts before and I'm sure you have too. He's giving a lot more to work with than most do if you can see past it and look at his reads.

Lore, if the lapsa votes are so bad, why aren't you voting them? And then in the next paragraph going so far as to say you don't have somewhere better to put your vote after unvoting.

V/LA the rest of today and tomorrow

. Working two 16 hour days. Will attempt to check in between shifts but no promises.

[Egg]

Reading a little. Some quick thoughts:
-I don't think texcat answered my question
-Transcend has too many town reads
-lore's "it will be obvious you're scum when I flip town" line is gross
-lexa's lore vote might be even worse than lore's post

I'll try to catch up in about an hour.

[Egg]

I'm actually going to 180 on that last lexa comment I made. I was thinking about it in the shower and, well, why does it seem like a bad vote? It gives off an opportunistic vibe. But what does an opportunistic vote actually look like? It's usually either bad reasoning or completely naked in an attempt to fly under the radar at the end of a wagon. This vote was early on the wagon with the words "I like bandwagons". As bad as it sounds at first glance, I think it's more likely to come from town than scum.

Back to reading. We'll see how far I get. Should be able to get fully caught up tomorrow.

[Egg]

Lexa's further posting confirms my thoughts that the lore vote wasn't scummy. I like the intent of generating info as coming from a town mindset. I would like to see more from lexa later though. And a quick ISO glance shows that lexa gave a wall post so we'll see how that looks when I get there.

Pisskop, to be perfectly honest the most I saw from ABR was about 1-2 years ago if I'm not mistaken. So it's possible he's changed in that time, but he is matching my perception of his town meta. You seem to have a good understanding of his meta. Did I miss your read on him somewhere? I don't understand your question about multiple teams.

Whymafia, the blending vibe came from your early posting. You voted gamma while calling the transcend wagon easy. Neither of those stands out on their own, but together it's hard to see how you can believe in both. And then a lot that followed was short simple questioning without much to back it or any follow up and then some things you agreed with. Your posting just felt like it lacked something. Like I said, more blending than genuine scum hunting. And skimming your ISO to see a point where that stopped, I really don't see one. Your point that ABR could be scum playing to his town meta is fair, but does he stand out as scum to you? Because he doesn't to me.

I know I didn't get far, but I need to stop there.

[Egg]

So this catchup might have to come in short bursts. I don't have a big chunk of free time to do it all at once.

Yeah I wasn't really paying attention before. I did call myself an idiot by the way. Like it's pretty stupid to miss the 1st post. I understand why so many people scum read me

The last sentence here feels fake. He is saying he made a mistake in missing that lapsa is confirmed which sounds like a defense after catching heat for his vote. If he thinks he was scum read for an honest mistake, why does he understand the scum reads? It feels like an attempt to get it shrugged off and get the attention off of him.

Lapsa, why is pisskop town?

Lore, in your response to me you mentioned massive's lapsa vote being a gambit and in context I took that as you townreading massive or at least not seeing the vote as scummy. You also seemed to not see the other lapsa votes as being scummy which I was pretty sure was your explanation for not voting any of them. But then a few posts later you go on to list those who voted lapsa and call them scum reads specifically for those votes. Can you clarify that stance for me? For reference, posts 726 and 737 are the ones that feel contradictory.

Ginngie, who do you think is avoiding voting lexa?

[Egg]

Lexa, I was shocked at the end of your wall that you listed tchill as a town read. Every mention of him in that post was "this is bad but null". What pushed him toyour town pile?

Ginngie and gamma, can you tell me specifically what you liked about lexa's wall? I want to be sure that it's not just "a lot of words = town".

Platinum coming in to say "lol" and not giving any thoughts tells me he's probably intentionally not really playing. Move him from my null pile to a little on the scummier side.

Tchill's page 34 is pretty bad. He says he's caught up and still gives minimal thoughts. Not a word on crush aside from the vote and a later follow up that crush hasn't gotten enough attention when he kind of did get attention. The annoyance at penguin asking for transcends thoughts on him (tchill). The "I suck" card. Just everything in his posting reeks of scum. I like my vote here. Tchill would be a good lynch.

[Egg]

Transcend, regarding tchill I don't think newbie game meta translates to a large when you are using effort as a tell. He even said he was overwhelmed. I don't think he'd lie about that regardless of alignment.

Tchill, you say massive, theta, and crush need more attention but you aren't saying much about them outside of that. You even called massive a null read. If they need attention, shouldn't you get more specific or take a closer look at them?

[Egg]

I'm asking people for reaFourtrouble's theta case isn't really selling me. Most of his concerns can be chalked up to personality and being lost in a large. I don't see anything from theta worth townreading, but I'm not convinced she's scum either. The one point that is interesting is the whole paying attention to the lynch thing. I'm not sure what to think about that, but it's interesting at least.

Whymafia's reaction to the case on theta interests me more than the case itself. It looks like another "a lot of words" situation where he goes "oh cool" and votes. When asked about it, he seems to have trouble saying what he actually agreed with (see the parenthesis where he second guesses and says he's being hypocritical).

36-Tchill is calling for attention on people instead of actually questioning them himself. Why is he expecting others to do the heavy lifting? Still happy with my vote.

Exactly!

I'm asking people for reads of others I'm suspicious about and I'm trying to get them to do the heavy lifting? There's reasons I'm already suspicious about you. Asking what others think is a much better way to get something talked about.

Hold up. Now these are scum reads? What happened to this:

I just said they needed more attention. Never listed my scum reads

?

First time playing with him. He's usually like this?

Does it matter? He's the one player whose alignment we don't have to sort.

[Egg]

Theta, some questions on your reads:
-you said pisskop looks town but didn't get specific. Can you do that for me?
-where do you see game solving in transcend's posts?

Lore, you really read platinum's gama vote as RVS? I thought it was pretty OMGUSy.

Tchill, what happened to your scum read on crush?

Lapsa, why is pisskop town?

I know him well enough

Well that's not a very persuasive arguement.

Lore, ok, that's actually fair on the lapsa votes. It looked like a contradiction to me, but I can see that being natural progression on reads.

Gamma, what kind of response were you expecting on your clarification about your reaction to my question? It makes perfect sense that you misread and doesn't really change anything. The issue people had with you was the vote itself, not your response to me. I find it a bit weird that you want a response to it so badly.

Straight up gut 

Content wise there's no doubt he's scummy af

Gut says I've seen his type befpre, usually a mislynch

Why do you think his scum game wouldn't be scummy?

Ginngie and gamma, can you tell me specifically what you liked about lexa's wall? I want to be sure that it's not just "a lot of words = town".

I feel the points Lexa is making come from a town perspective
In exchange can you address post 1094

I feel like you missed the word "specifically". See above in this post for my opinion on 1094.

Egg what information, if any, do you need from me to help you with my slot?

When I have questions, I'll ask them. I've been doing so all game.

Lapsa, I feel like pisskop and texcat are too high on your pyramid especially with your comment about not changing it without full cooperation from the top two tiers. I'd prefer for any of your two "priests" to be there instead.

[Egg]

Gonna echo massive's thoughts towards Fourtrouble. I don't at all see how tchill couldn't miss lapsa's confirmation as scum especially if scum don't have daychat.

perhaps pisskop's read on whymafia could be useful here.I suspect that latest interactions might have made him a convert

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

In response to lore wanting to know what it was for transcend already had a few votes on him and I wanted to help build the wagon in rvs. There's only SO much you can nitpick out of rvs that has actual reason behind it

You did that without wondering why people were voting transcend?

 As town, it's easy to skim a game and say things impulsively without thinking them through, because town rarely worry about how suspicious they appear until they actually come under pressure. But as scum, we tend to become more self-conscious about what we're posting, regardless of how much pressure we're under, because we focus more on avoiding suspicion in the first place, and that leads to less carelessness

Everyone is different on this. Some people want to control the game as scum while others will try to coast. Some people want to solve the game and lead lynches as town while others let people do it for them and just try to pick the right side of a fight. And I disagree that everyone is more self conscious as scum. I'm always self conscious lol.

[Egg]

t chill is vi
you can tell tonally my guise
I'm not gonna tolerate an easy mislynch like that

But why is he town?
You keep pushing this and I ain't down
If he's a VI, that's null.
Get that through your skull
Randomness, not skill level, determines alignments.
Damn now you got me pitching tents.

Associations have little palce in D1

^this. You do everything you can to lynch scum. If you were right, you go to associative tells on day 2. If you base day 1 reads on associative tells and then mislynch, you don't exactly have the same info you thought you did on day 2. The worst part might be the biases you create in your own reads. For example, if on day 1 I say that Jim and Bob are scum together and Jim is lynched and flips town, it triggers something in some people's minds saying "I was wrong and that makes Bob more likely to be town" which obviously isn't true.

Speaking of biases, fourtrouble is already past the point of confirmation bias with his scum read of theta and it shows in post 1245. Even if theta turns out to bescum, not every post that scum makes is scummy. At this point, he's trying harder to persuade everyone and prove he's right than he is to sort theta. I mean, really, the fact that she's ISOing by playerlist order is scummy? Come on. Of course, it's possible I'm doing the same with tchill but I'm pretty sure he's scum so it's hard not to.

Wait
umnot sure if this is allowed but um
theta isn't alive in any game apart from here from what I see

Try going back to the time of her post 590.

egg, I suppose I have a high opinion of people who roll scum, in my experience the scummiest looking players almost universally become town lynchbait (especially on D1) while the actual scum make considerably more effort to look town to the point where even if they're suspected they can push the Lynch off on someone else. And of course the best scum will never be a suspect to begin with. I've yet to see a scum in any game who opens their game looking scummy, continues to be scummy throughout the day, and get lynched as scum, on D1 at least This mindset is more pertinent on D1 when there aren't any flip associations than it is on future days, after a certain point scummy behavior is scummy behavior and even if they are town they can't live into LYLO, but that's something I'd prefer to deal with later when better wagons exist

Uhhhh. That's interesting. And if it was true, we'd be lynching town reads all the time.

it is not supposed to be modified that easily

Ok, but why do pisskop and texcat have to be so high on it?

I wasn't particularly wondering no. Stuff has to happen before you can have reasons behind what you do. I thought that was kind of the point of rvs.

I'd think you'd at least be reading posts though in the stage of the game where reads start to develop.

Finally caught up. But now I have three consecutive 16 hour work days starting tomorrow. FML.

[Egg]

Lol. Had to.

[Egg]

Unvote, Vote Transcend

Fourtrouble, you didn't get those motivated vibes from ABR around the time he started pushing ginngie? And I think we're in agreement on tchill except that youare putting more weight on his forgetting lapsa was IC than I am which is why we have different reads on him.

[Egg]

this is town!transcend unless anyone can link me a scum game he played remotely like this

viewtopic.php?t=71353&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

[Egg]

he doesn't have a super low effort scum game
that game egg linked is night and day

You're joking, right? I admit I didn't read very critically, but that ISO felt low effort to me.

well rhyming is fun and lapsa is IC.... one of those lines was a question not a true false statement. but i am not scum which is what i think you were asking about.

This follow up feels overexplain-y and nervous at effectively being asked "are you scum"

[Egg]

Ok, five days off work starting tomorrow. I'll be back to normal then.

[Egg]

Holy fuck, how many pages?

Gonna get started...

[Egg]

Unvote

[Egg]

Bear with me on outdated stuff...

I don't get why theta saw a scum slip from fourtrouble. Unfortunately, she replaced out so I can't ask her. And fourtrouble obviously didn't get lynched over it soI'm guessing it turned out to be nothing. But if anyone can explain it to me, that would be cool.

Vedith, you replaced in and sheeped the IC by asking who is scum and voting transcend when lapsa answered which is fine. But then you said in your next postthat transcend looks town. So why did you keep your vote there.

I don't like tchill trying to paint theta's offer to replace out for rules reasons as scummy (Post 1442). What reason could someone possibly have for doing that as scum that they wouldn't as town?

More after my phone charges

[Egg]

Unvote

bad egg
rotten egg
infertile egg
do i need to beg?

It was a stale pressure vote.

Back to reading.

[Egg]

Tchill, what did you mean when you said you flipping town would give pisskop town cred? He hadn't been defending you or anything unless I'm misremembering. Pretty sure he had you as scum. If you meant his push would look town, what difference does the flip make? Also what makes you say he's after the town cred rather than genuinely town? Just trying to get a sense of your thought process here. I also don't like how you backtracked on that read shortly after saying that. Being ok with lynching null reads for info sucks too (post 1518). Another question: why were you convinced by a scum read (vedith) that someone you were scumreading earlier (crush) is town (post 1519)?

Ginngie's 1548 doesn't convince me that the lore wagon makes lore town. Just that it was started by low effort posters.

Pmyst, why are you worried about seeming "super defensive" (Post 1586)? And why didn't you list being town as a reason not to be lynched? Also, in 1594 you said there hadn't been "many" power role claims. I wasn't aware of any at all unless lapsa as IC counts. Did I miss something? Some questions on your reads list:
- Do you honestly believe mutton would drop the rhyming as scum? This is very weird to me
- I hope you've sorted lore by now, but if not can you attempt to do so? And why did you "hope" to end up townreading lore?
-

Why do you think giving a read on theta and platinum won't help just because they were being replaced?

<-answered
- Why does activity/content/fluff factor so much into your reads when you said right before posting the reads list that you could understand inactivity while being pressured?
- Why do you think that me working 16 hour shifts without internet makes me less likely to be town?

The reason I didn't give reads on those being replaced, is because this is only Day 1, and we have nothing to support the claim of either of them being Town or Scum. I can't give a read on a future player that hasn't posted or been recognized yet.

By this logic, no one should have any reads at all. Why does this only apply to players being replaced?

I don't feel like massive's 1641 contains any game solving.

You say "Penguin's response to Egg can't come from town" and I tell you I can give you a dozen examples of town doing That Exact Thing if you want to wait for them. Heck I would even be willing to try to limit myself to people in this game who have done it and who aren't standing up and saying "oh yeah I've done that as town" because I bet pisskop and Transcend AT LEAST have done it. Maybe even Ginngie

I've probably done it early in a game while trying to build a wagon as town.

Transcend, why is lore's 1645 "a fucking scum claim"?

What do you think is the safer lynch. Pmysterious, penguin or lore? It's hard to get a back and forth with someone in here. I think the SAFEST is probably penguin.

Ew...

Phone is dead again. Maybe one more burst tonight.

[Egg]

Pisskop's reaction to vedith's accusation is...interesting. Like I agree with vedith that he seems defensive over it, but at the same time he's not wrong to want reasoning for it.

I agree with ginngie that tchill's transcend town reasoning sucks shit covered ass.

Whymafia, why is penguin an easier push than lore or transcend? And even if it's easy, does that matter?

Judge, I was hoping for more thoughts from someone who just caught up on such a long thread...

I know I didn't say much this stretch but the thread kind of went to shit. Can you guys not spam so much? Like if you don't have something somewhat useful to say, don't post until you do. Shitting up the thread is pointless, not funny, and makes it hard for people to keep up.

[Egg]

Reading up a little more but it's a busy day so probably won't finish until tomorrow.

____________

For what it's worth, I didn't realize transcend's "simba" post was directed at lore either so I understand her not realizing that. Her vote was probably self preservation. Not acknowledging as much is kind of shitty. Transcend is kind of doing the same though so... But yeah, I actually think transcend is a little scummier than lore.

Vedith/lore, I'd be willing to join you on whymafia. I'd prefer that to transcend and lore.

Actually...first night vig? wtf? Is that normal? Forget the above. Lore lynch is ok with me.

[Egg]

If it's normal, it's confirmable. Shoot scum uncountered and I'll believe it.

[Egg]

Ok, gonna try to finish this read right now.

Whymafia suddenly "getting a scummy vibe off vedith" reeeeeeks of OMGUS. I'm still ok with lynching there if people want.

I think I understand why a waffle wagon popped up so fast. The whole suspecting lore, saying he read up, missing the claim, and lack of interest in what the claim was thing was pretty bad. I also don't see where the "scum claim" thing came from, but going back to his own ISO to try to find it was pretty bad. I've seen while skimming that waffle claimed investigative though, so we'll see what happens tonight. We're not lynching waffle.

Ginngie, what specifically did you like about transcend's lore case?

Don't like tchill asking if he should make an "I'm town" case to the vig threatening him. He also posted right after me and didn't acknowledge my point about theta's replace out offer and how he called it scummy.

I didn't say that Mutton would drop the rhyming as scum, but I feel like it puts a lot less stress on us, making it actually seem pretty chill (or, preh... Tchill. XD), which at a time like this, is needed more than anything. 

You implied it though by townreading him for it. My point is that it's a gimmick that he probably decided on before coming into the game which makes it null. The fact that you called it town is what bothers me.

 Lore is a case of I hope she's town, because sometimes, activity is an issue and I get that (as a guy who goes through that phase myself).

What does activity have to do with it? Hoping lore is town just feels like a weird thing to say.

Okay, I want to say this regarding the whole 16 hour work shift. Be honest with me, how was I supposed to know that? We all have lives, I get it, but I didn't know you worked 16 hour work shifts, and if I skimmed over it, I'm sorry in advance.

It's right in the thread. I gave it as my reason for going v/la. My point is that free time tends to determine whether people are active or not much more often than alignment. You mentioned activity on damn near every read and your read on me is a perfect example of how you're putting too much stock in it.

_________________

What did I miss? Why would judge get modkilled?

Guys, can we not direct the claimed power roles? If they are town, it just tells scum if they need to be worried about those players or not.

Looks like I need to start working on some town cred if the group consensus is I should get shot this night phase.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

I'm so close but I can't keep my eyes open. Bed time. But first, did vedith scum claim?

[Egg]

At least I was on the right track with Pmysterious. Feel OK about that haha.

We don't know if those accusations were real or not yet.
Don't get ahead of yourself yet.

^this. I found what everyone's issue is on a skim and platinum easily could be lying about being scum and/or pmyst being a buddy. We should be fine to continue. And anyone voting lapsa needs to not. We should be acting as if we're fine to continue because if we are a deadline is still approaching.

[Egg]

Vote Judge

[Egg]

Ok more reading...

I'm at waffles' claim and just saw the whole thing and man has the definition of normal changed over the years if that's actually a normal role.

Ginngie/tchill, what do we actually get out of waffle checking a claimed VT as long as waffle is still alive? I mean I guess his death confirms his results, but meh. I feel like there was a better way to play that but I'm old school in wanting claims to wait as long as possible so, *shrug*

^oh, I see fourtrouble already had this arguement for me. Well, I agree with him. For once lol

<- never mind. didn't know results were guaranteed now.

Tchill, the 3-1 lead jokes will never go away. It will be like the Buffalo Bills where we are talking about "wide right" 27 years later.

Pmyst not scumclaiming should be enough for the game to continue in my opinion.

And now I'm caught up so I'll be pissed if the game gets called now lol

[Egg]

I think we should ignore platinum. He's a troll and no longer a player in this game.

That said, I'm still ok with a judge lynch. It's been a scummy slot, he has a wagon on him already, and deadline is coming.

The power roles should do whatever they damn please.

[Egg]

I'm too tired to comprehend anything. Next full night of sleep is saturday.

ISO'd lore and waffles to see what they say they did last night. Looks like we didn't get much info out of it. Lore might be telling the truth though because pmyst as a shot from scum doesn't make much sense.

[Egg]

I'm back to normal today and tomorrow, but it's father's day and tomorrow is my kickball league's playoffs so I'm still busy. Should be able to at least catch up on old stuff, but won't be able to keep up for real until later in the week.

[Egg]

Already lost my post once, but let's try again. I'm hoping to be caught up by tomorrow night

Vedith you opened the day with one vote and then changing to waffles because "there's a reason pmyst was killed". What was that reason?

Pisskop, when vedith asked if pmyst scum claimed and text answered "yes" and voted, I get why that's scum points for texcat, but why vedith as well? And why did you assume pmyst was a shot from scum and not lore who claimed vig?

I might end up subbing,
idk gonna lurk for a bit this game

What the fuck is this? And from someone I've been townreading...

Tchill, why the lore vote to open the day? The fact that pmyst, who doesn't seem like a scum NK, died as well as his flip (as much as I hate mod WIFOM) seem to suggest lore's claim was truthful.

Texcat, your theory is that scum (who you obviously feel have daytalk) gave waffles the fakeclaim. Give me a list of players in this game who you think are capable of coming up with that claim.

Crush, what is your past experience with fykus?

Jjh's calling out fykus's unvote "just in case" is weird as fuck. It's one of those things that even the person posting it has to know it's weak and I get that he just replaced in, but really? That's what you choose to nitpick?

More later. Phone's dying.

[Egg]

Back to it...

Tchill, you called yourself confirmed town. That's only true if waffles is town. Are you really that confident that that's the case?

Crush, I already asked pisskop why he assumed pmyst was a scum kill and not a vig shot from lore. Now I want you to answer the same question.

I can't believe it even has to be said that waffles could be lying about checking tchill. That result gave us zero info on waffles.

I actually like vedith's idea to give waffles another chance with no prior info. His claim is the type that he's bound to screw up at some point if fake and is worth getting results on if it's real. I like vedith and massive as town for volunteering too. Same applies to tchill from day 1, not sure if I've mentioned that yet.

I second tchill's question about texcat having him (tchill) in blue on her reads list, but not for the same reasons. That felt more like null territory to me and I don't see how you can null read tchill right now. I notice the same on crush's list.

Crush, you said you'd move fourtrouble in your reads list if you understand. What do you need to understand?

Aaaaaaaand dying phone again. Pretty good dent in this though.

Preview edit: fuck, that was a bad question. Didn't know. Sorry.

[Egg]

You seemed to be assuming it here:

Eh
Lore I'd suggest you claim now

im first night vig

I point you to this.

Liar, or roleblocked?

vote for tex

See the bolded

[Egg]

Texcat, why does one of lore/waffles have to be lying?

Vedith's 3531 is an eggcellent post. Like I said already, waffle's claim sorts itself out unless he's a scum rolecop. Whymafia is also a good lynch. Texcat would be good too.

Whymafia, I'm assuming in your post where you vote waffles, you don't understand the difference between submitting an action and knowing that it stopped a kill?

Crush's 3638 reads as being genuine. I doubt he's scum with whymafia.

Tchill, if whymafia and crush are both good votes, why'd you leave the whymafia wagon to vote crush who didn't have a wagon?

ISO Whymafia he looks like he is scum hunting and making cases.

Look closer. He doesn't push his thoughts or follow up. Just asks questions and calls it enough. And he's most active when he's under scrutiny. It's the appearance of scum hunting but not actual scum hunting.

Jjh, the most null person is screen in my opinion. Massive second most null.

why does judge go through but waffles don't?
Can someone give a rundown for me. 

Probably the fact that waffles claimed a power role and judge's slot claimed scum.

context.

Im defending her and pushing tex

Ah. Gotcha.

Can we get votes from the nonvoters?

Egg, care to rainbow?

Vote whymafia

I'll do the reads thing tomorrow. My brain is fried from all the reading.

Crush, pretty sure most of us missed pmyst's soft claim but I guess all it takes is one person who happens to be scum noticing so that's fair. I personally would be surprised if scum shot someone who had such a good chance at being lynched though.

[Egg]

Egg I left the whymafia wagon because it didn't seem like it was going anywhere. Players on the crush wagon are townier to me than players on the sling wagon.

But when you switched, there wasn't a crush wagon.

[Egg]

why the fuhhhhhhhhhhhkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk are you not voting crush

I don't scum read him.

[Egg]

then you're getting lynched today so i can lynch him tomorrow

Lol k. Is there anything in whymafia's actual play that makes you town read him?

[Egg]

then you're getting lynched today so i can lynch him tomorrow

Lol k. Is there anything in whymafia's actual play that makes you town read him?

nope

just feels counter-wagon-y

frikin waffles gets to l-1 and then enxt thing u kno whymafia has 6 votes rofllol

why do you not think crush is scum that's a boggler

I was trying to find whymafia at six votes to ask you who is scum on the wagon, but can't find it above four. Crush has six though. Why don't you think the crush wagon is waffle's scumbuddies? And if that's your reason for townreading whymafia, why aren't you voting waffles?

Waffles claimed the fakest of all fake claims and some of you are actually letting him get away with it.

Nah he has zero chance of surviving to end game. Either we catch him lying on results, we lynch him after a while as a probable scum rolecop, or he's town and scum has to kill him.

[Egg]

If scum wanted to kill waffles they would have done it a long time ago. They didnt. HE IS SCUM.

There's a pretty realistic chance their N1 kill didn't go through considering lore claimed pmyst was a vig shot. That was their only chance. Either way, him getting NK'd as town was only one of a few possibilities I listed. He's not reaching endgame.

[Egg]

Ok, rainbow reads. Format shamelessly stolen from penguin:

{Egg, Lapsa}

{lore, vedith}

{tchill, penguin, fykus, fourtrouble}

{shinobi, ABR, crush}

{massive, screenplay}

{waffles}

{pisskop, transcend}

{jjh}

{whymafia, texcat}

[Egg]

Texcat, your theory is that scum (who you obviously feel have daytalk) gave waffles the fakeclaim. Give me a list of players in this game who you think are capable of coming up with that claim.

I don't know many of the players in this game, but the ones I've played with before like Transcend, pisskop, Vedith, ABR, lapsa, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some again, could probably come up with the claim. I could easily see it as a collaborative effort.

Texcat, why does one of lore/waffles have to be lying?

I obviously had a different idea of what Waffles meant when he said that the mod confirmed that he healed TChill. I thought that meant that TChill was attacked and that Waffles healed him. But TChill makes zero sense as the scum kill. And Lore claims to have killed PM. I'm reluctantly willing to accept that you can heal someone with them being attacked, but I still don't accept Waffles' claim.

Ok.

Usually it's vanilla or not vanilla.
The whole "mod said I healed him" doesn't sit right either.
How often have anyone seen mod confirming to a doc if someone has been attacked or not?
Common sense says waffles is scum unless someone can confirm ^ that's common practice.

It's not common practice. I've never heard of it. Not even in this game.

[Egg]

Yes

[Egg]

Lapsa is also innocent child.

[Egg]

Yeah, jjh, I want to know what changed your mind.

Titus expecting a wagon is weird especially if she's seen a town PM. I highly doubt ABR made that comment for alignment related reasons.

[Egg]

I get the thought but it's not really common these days. And even when it was, it was a Day 1 kind of thing. Kind of irrelevent though so whatever.

[Egg]

Wasn't really near a lynch when he last posted. Got flash wagoned at deadline after his slot scum claimed.

[Egg]

Yeah, what penguin said. The mod edited it out but platinum claimed scum a couple of times and added that pmyst (N1 kill, claimed vig shot by lore) was a buddy later. Judge replaced platinum.

[Egg]

To rephrase, lore claimed to be a vig who shot pmyst. Pmyst didn't claim vig (although he softed power role and most people didn't notice until he was dead).

[Egg]

Penguin quit answering for me! lol. But yeah that's what I was asking.

Titus:
-Gamma wagon I think people just thought it was RVSy or found better options
-lore claimed vig
-transcend... I'm actually not sure

[Egg]

dont worry, abr was town

but ill do you one better and say i have extensive Titus experience.

if shes a rotten scumbumble ill know it and words shall be had.
but shes not

That's not enough and you know it.
Talk to me more about this magical Titus read you have, because she's barely said anything of note and ABR was pretty scummy.

ABR really wasn't that scummy.

[Egg]

That wasn't really that aggressive. We disagree on a read. It's cool.

At the moment, the best answer I can give is "ISO me", but I'll give a better one tomorrow afternoon.

[Egg]

For starters, which of my reads aren't you sure on?

[Egg]

*shrug*

The list was only done by request and I'm still V/LA a few more days. I'm surprised you couldn't find reasoning though. My ISO isn't exactly lacking.

[Egg]

Shinobi,
WHYMAFIA:
-This one is mostly gut, but see posts 57, 623, 934, and 3818 for further explanation on that.
-His reaction to the initial theta case was ugly
-He OMGUS'd the hell out of vedith by suddenly getting scummy vibes when vedith started to push him
-A lot of the questions he's asked give me more of a blending vibe than they give me the impression he's looking for scum. I've questioned him on some of these questions throughout the game.

TEXCAT:
-There was weak stuff early that I didn't pay much attention to, but still questioned like her reaction to lapsa's confirmation, the naked vote on penguin, and the very sideline reaction to wagons shifting.
-The reaction to lapsa getting some votes rubbed me the wrong way.
-She was very quick to sheep vedith after he called something a "scum claim" when it wasn't. Weird for such a passive player
-She almost seemed too sure scum have daytalk with her theory that scum gave waffles his claim, but then needed to be prodded to give names of players capable of coming up with it.
-Null reading tchill seems impossible to me so that's weird.
-The assumption that lore or waffles is lying stands out. I'm still trying to sort that for sure, but it could be either scum doubtcasting claims or scum with more info than the rest of us about what happened last night.

JJH:
-This is all left over from Gamma. I haven't really seen anything from jjh that I can get a read off of.

TRANSCEND:
-I admit some of this might just be frustration with the way he plays, but he did have one bad 180, a reads list with wayyyyy too many town, and a moment where he was getting wagoned for not doing anything and chose that of all moments to be the one time he gives meaningful contribution (although to be fair he also had the crush case recently). I get the feeling he's trying to survive, but give off the "*shrug* I don't give a fuck" impression

PISSKOP:
-I'm rushing now because I'm headed in to work, but there was early buddying, defensiveness to vedith, and a weird reaction to the pmyst kill.

And with that, I'm back to work for two days.

[Egg]

Transcend, clearing whymafia as not pink for waffles' wagon falling apart doesn't work because waffles was a traitor, not regular scum. Whymafia's wagon also never took off like crush's did. Also have to ask, where is the scumslip?
Edit: I see there's speculation he was recruited so if that's ever proven then maybe you have a point. Him being recruited would actually explain some of N1. But if lore shot pmyst and there are two scum teams, that would still mean another scum kill was stopped so I'm not sure I'm sold on all of that quite yet.

Tchill, no you aren't confirmed town but you're still pretty obvtown for some end of day 1 stuff and day 2.

How can scum not know their partner?

Huhhhhh. If this is genuine then man is it a huge townslip.

Vote whymafia

I'm on page 174 but my battery is dying. Will finish after charging.

[Egg]

You know what fuck it. I'm causing too much confusion.

I'm a town jackelope.

I effectively have the same powers as waffles did. Neapolitan someone and if they're vt, they would receive a bulletproof vest for the night. Unfortunately I don't have any clears. I think one of my checks is really obvious but the second one not so much. I didn't think there were two of my role in the town, nor did Waffles ever mention the word Jackelope so that made me really distrust him. So um yeah I have two soft guilties but they might be non vt towns.

For now let's rope whymafia, he wasn't one of my checks.

Inb4 autolynched lol

Fykus is one of my soft guilties

Do you confirm that you're not VT, Fykus?

lmao...calling it now...Transcend is scum trying to use his "role" to legit rolefish.

even-night gunsmith my ass...

VOTE: Transcend

parked.

I could see it.

[Egg]

V/LA until Thursday night

[Egg]

Is everyone just blindly following transcend?

I'm not.

Can someone tell me where's the case on me so I can actually you know, defend myself

I did. You wrote it off as tone and bullshit.

[Egg]

I'm too tired to comprehend anything. Next full night of sleep is saturday.

ISO'd lore and waffles to see what they say they did last night. Looks like we didn't get much info out of it. Lore might be telling the truth though because pmyst as a shot from scum doesn't make much sense.

why does PM make sense as a "Vig" shot but not scum? He softed as pr. I would think town vig might be apprehensive about shooting a pr but scum wouldn't be.

When I posted that, I hadn't seen anyone point out that pmyst apparently softed a power role. If scum picked up on that, then maybe they did actually shoot him.

Whymafia,
-On the theta case, you started off with being unwilling to call theta town but still defending her under the logic that there are other options (obviously true with any case) and anyone can make one bad post. Then you sheeped fourtrouble's case while still giving things you disagreed with. All in a span of just a few posts. It didn't feel natural.
-Gut is hard to explain but I've already tried multiple times so at this point you probably just aren't reading.
-You are right that OMGUS isn't a universal tell, but it was the way you did it with vedith that seemed like scum OMGUS.

Shinobi, if you felt my whymafia reasoning was a "half answer", I don't really know what you were expecting. I understand if it didn't convince you, but a half answer? Really?

They both have coasted doing nothing.

You caught me. As town I'd be calling in to work until the game is over.

[Egg]

Titus case is trash, no surprise there.
Moving on:

I'm too tired to comprehend anything. Next full night of sleep is saturday.

ISO'd lore and waffles to see what they say they did last night. Looks like we didn't get much info out of it. Lore might be telling the truth though because pmyst as a shot from scum doesn't make much sense.

why does PM make sense as a "Vig" shot but not scum? He softed as pr. I would think town vig might be apprehensive about shooting a pr but scum wouldn't be.

When I posted that, I hadn't seen anyone point out that pmyst apparently softed a power role. If scum picked up on that, then maybe they did actually shoot him.

Whymafia,
-On the theta case, you started off with being unwilling to call theta town but still defending her under the logic that there are other options (obviously true with any case) and anyone can make one bad post. Then you sheeped fourtrouble's case while still giving things you disagreed with. All in a span of just a few posts. It didn't feel natural.
-Gut is hard to explain but I've already tried multiple times so at this point you probably just aren't reading.
-You are right that OMGUS isn't a universal tell, but it was the way you did it with vedith that seemed like scum OMGUS.

Shinobi, if you felt my whymafia reasoning was a "half answer", I don't really know what you were expecting. I understand if it didn't convince you, but a half answer? Really?

They both have coasted doing nothing.

You caught me. As town I'd be calling in to work until the game is over.

The bottom line is that I don't like your case.

That's fair but I still don't get why you called it a half answer...

[Egg]

K

[Egg]

V/LA for the weekend

Although if the game keeps this pace, you won't even notice.

[Egg]

sorry guys i got tickled not prodded.

wm red mafia, transcend red mafia version of sling.

Red?

i've been tunneled by scum!titus before

her tunnel on egg is the equivalent of her petting a dog compared to the pushes she does as scum

Titus pushes harder as both alignments than this. The only thing that's consistent with her past games is the fact that she's scumreading me while I've been behind on the game.

[Egg]

Why is this game so quiet?

[Egg]

Better be scum after that

[Egg]

With four days left?

[Egg]

So I think fykus fits as a whymafia buddy after looking at whymafia's ISO, especially when you look at ginngie/fykus's ISO next to it. I see whymafia and ginngiethrowing shade at each other and the tone is more jokey with each other than with everyone else. Then after throwing shade at each other, they stop interacting completely before whymafia calls ginngie a null read and ginngie claims not to remember anything whymafia has done. Fykus replacing in and naked voting whymafia didn't feel natural either and whymafia's irritated reaction to that feels like it could be a buddy upset about being bussed. I'd been townreading that slot mostly because of ginngie, but the connections are there for sure.

Lapsa, I don't get why you're voting Titus. ABR seemed town to me and Titus isn't very readable so far.

Titus, I don't get why shinobi "had to be a vig shot". I don't think I had the same impression as you did about nobody townreading shinobi.

Texcat and screenplay, why is vedith scum?

Tchill, this is weird considering the way Day 1 went, but I think you and I are actually on the same page now. I agree with you about fykus and transcend. I don't have the meta with fykus though. Can you go into that a little more?

I agree that I'd have expected more kills, but it might be that Black Mafia kills on odd days and Pink Mafia kills on even days

I could see that. Only thing that makes me think probably not is that there were two deaths N2 and the N2 vig was already dead.

Vote Fykus

[Egg]

and Titus isn't very readable so far.

that is the reason

which makes even more sense given it's a multi ball

So null read = scum read just because there are multiple scum teams? That doesn't mean there are no tells. Just that some of the tells are different.

[Egg]

@egg any comments on this?

Yep. I asked why Titus assumed that and mentioned that I disagree with the assertion that no one was townreading shinobi. And she didn't answer but I guess that's probably intentional so I'll shut up about it for now.

WhyMafia was at the bottom of all of his read lists. He kept saying that WhyMafia was scum. And yet his vote was on Titus.

So associatives. k.

_________________

Titus, why are pisskop and texcat your town pile? Actually, I don't disagree but I'm curious why on massive too.

[Egg]

Also, texcat, don't take that as me dismissing your point. I just wanted clarification and that actually makes some sense. I just need to look into it myself which I'll probably do tonight. I've been townreading vedith so far though and I'm pretty sure I heard recently that his scum meta is pretty established as a busser (although he's aware of that so it could change at any time). But like I said, I'll look.

[Egg]

Ignored again. So I guess Titus is choosing not to interact with me at all.

[Egg]

Can someone else ask Titus why she's townreading pisskop and texcat? And for a more detailed reason on massive?

[Egg]

Texcat and screenplay, why is vedith scum?

WhyMafia was at the bottom of all of his read lists. He kept saying that WhyMafia was scum. And yet his vote was on Titus.

I just went back and ISO'd them side by side and remembered vedith kept offering up whymafia as his preferred alternative to waffles. They might be scum together, but not for your reasons because I'm pretty sure that would have to have been a hard bus from vedith when waffles was getting lynched. He seemed to genuinely want whymafia lynched instead.

[Egg]

Texcat and screenplay, why is vedith scum?

WhyMafia was at the bottom of all of his read lists. He kept saying that WhyMafia was scum. And yet his vote was on Titus.

I just went back and ISO'd them side by side and remembered vedith kept offering up whymafia as his preferred alternative to waffles. They might be scum together, but not for your reasons because I'm pretty sure that would have to have been a hard bus from vedith when waffles was getting lynched. He seemed to genuinely want whymafia lynched instead.

I agree that he seemed to. My problem is the next day when Why was actually lynched, he voted for Titus. It's a case of not putting your vote where your mouth is when it counts.

I dunno. Vedith doesn't seem the type to hard bus, get his way, and then back off. If he was going to bus, I'd think he'd stick with it the whole way to actually get the town cred for it. What do you think of fykus as a whymafia buddy?

[Egg]

Would scum really send transcend to do a kill? He claimed a power role, so he'd a prime RB target from an opposing scum team and he's had quite a few people suspect him so he could be watched/tracked to keep him honest.

Pisskop, why'd you block (or whatever you did) transcend?

[Egg]

Egg, remeber when we were in lylo and I lynched you cuz you were a scummy serial egg?

what did you do all game?

I didn't scum hunt "all game". I got rid of scum pretty early lol. But yeah, I wasn't about to dispute that point anyway. Scum teams hunting other scum teams is a pretty well known thing by now. My only concern is that transcend claimed a power role and you did something that blocked his action. It was risky if you're town.

[Egg]

that transcend claimed a power role and you did something that blocked his action. It was risky if you're town.

posh.

He claimed traitor 2.0

Maybe. I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate here but do you think he'd just claim it like that if his role was the same as waffles'? Something feels weird about it. Jailing him is still risky just in case you're wrong because we lose his result.

______________

This is weird because I can see pisskop and transcend being anything from scum on opposite teams to both town. Both are scummy based on their play, but the way both players claimed felt town. The only thing we can probably rule out is them being scum together.

I think I still prefer the fykus lynch. A jailkeep isn't a true guilty. Transcend could have just as easily been a kill target because he's a guaranteed threat to at least one scum team as either a town power role or scum. And that's even assuming we trust pisskop.

[Egg]

Massive, I think you're confused about what a jailkeeper does. It's RB+protect, so transcend could still be targeted by a non killing action last night. So if he's the same as waffles, he could have been recruited.

Screenplay, remind me what the rainbow idea was all about.

[Egg]

How are you getting Fykus out of all of this?

Interactions between ginngie/fykus and whymafia. See my first post of the day for details. Also not sure I can see your color thing in a normal game. Teams areusually identified by the color of their flip. I didn't know this though:

night n scum killers is non-normal

[Egg]

He was saying that before all of this as well, but yeah he can answer for his own reasons.

[Egg]

trancend's ISO

Good luck...

Seriously though, a few questions:
1) You ISO'd Titus when you replaced in. Why'd you choose her? Did you ISO anyone else?
2) How are you just now asking Titus who you should ISO when her ISO makes it pretty clear what her answer will be?
3) Why would you sheep someone who you called a "weak town lean"?
4) Can you pull up a three way ISO of Ginngie, fykus (replaced ginngie), and whymafia (flipped scum) and tell me if you think they fit as scum buddies?

[Egg]

Screenplay,

*shrug*

If scum want to sheep me lynching scum, I'm ok with that (regarding waffles voting whymafia).

Not sure where you think you see coaching, but does that mean you're assuming scum don't have daytalk?

_______________

Fykus, so the people who want you lynched the most are scum? Also, I see you're assuming three living scum. Why?

[Egg]

Maybe.

But I'd hold off on assuming the black team had a recruitable until one flips.

[Egg]

So lets flip trans and find out

I don't lynch for info. I lynch to hit scum. And I'm more confident that you are scum.

Fykus scum slipped btw

I don't think he did. The closest I can see is where he said there are three scum left and that may be an info slip IF he is scum, but that's the best I've got.

[Egg]

Yeah I don't think so

[Egg]

Trying to decide what I want to say about any role I do or don't have.

...

Ok, with fykus and transcend BOTH outting this, I'll confirm that yes I'm a power role who targeted sling N1. I'm gonna leave it at that though for now.

Unvote

[Egg]

Huh?

[Egg]

Oh.

So you weren't the kill target.

Wait. Do blocked people show up on watch/track in normals?

[Egg]

Wait. Do blocked people show up on watch/track in normals?

they do not

So transcend still could have been targeted for a NK.

Hmmm. That makes it seem more like his role is really watcher. I still don't understand why if he thought you recruited Waffles, he wouldn't push for your lynch. 

I agree. Unless he was black scum and felt safer holding on to that until he needed to claim. Seems like town would come right out with it if they thought they had a guilty.

_______________

V/LA until Monday night

. Working the next two days and busy Sunday.

[Egg]

Fykus why would a doc have targeted waffles?

[Egg]

I'll ISO Whymafia and Transcend side by side and see if I get anything. I'll do that tonight. Hitting pink scum is more important than black though so maybe I'll check out some vote counts too.

[Egg]

pink scum is more important than black though

ewww no.


All things being equal we want to eliminate the extra kpn

Do you think black is on it's last member?

[Egg]

Fuck it.

Im a 3-shot town watcher:
N1 egg visits sling
N2 wm visits sling
N3 piss visits transcend

Conclusions:

Egg recruited sling
Wm killed sling
Piss jkd trans thus comfirming scum trans.

Titus seems to be an associative read of egg imo. Constantly voting the slot without reasoning leads me to conclude theyre partners.

Waffles was a traitor who claimed a power role Day 1 after getting wagoned. Fykus saw me target Waffles and assumed only a doc or scum recruiting him would do that. I'm not a doc.
VOTE: Egg

Recruited?

[Egg]

This was supposed to be outside of the quote:
Waffles was a traitor who claimed a power role Day 1 after getting wagoned. Fykus saw me target Waffles and assumed only a doc or scum recruiting him would do that. I'm not a doc.

[Egg]

No

[Egg]

So on whymafia/transcend ISOs....

Lexa/screenplay:
-Transcend calls lexa "nullscumish" in his reads list out of nowhere and later calls himself/mutton/lexa a "wagon of Gods". Next readslist he changes her to "townishhhhhhhh" and I don't see anything that changed. After N1, screenplay is town for transcend because "lexa ws obvtown".
-whymafia questions crush's vote on lexa.
I could see this being a buddy

Vedith
-whymafia noticed vedith missing on tchill's reads list and then questioned tchill for scumreading vedith. That's maybe kindabuddyish.
-vedith pushed whymafia hard, but vedith busses, right?
-whymafia seems more frustrated with vedith's suspicion on him than anyone else's.

Massive
-made transcend's "do not lynch" list and I can't figure out why. Could be a buddy?

Texcat
-whymafia called agreed with suspicion on her which could be anywhere between distancing and opportunism. I'm at least noting it for now
^ok, the way he revisits it makes me think opportunism. Gonna say not buddy on texcat.
-yeah he was trying to get texcat lynched. she's not scum with him

Fourtrouble/zzzx
-whymafia's interactions with fourtrouble feel like anything BUT scumbuddy interactions.
-the way whymafia sheeped fourtrouble on theta seems like buddying a player he thought was town.

Pisskop
-whymafia's vote and following posts don't sound like bussing.

General thought
Looks like transcend was HARD crumbing to the black team right before the Judge lynch. Good chance he got recruited N1.

[Egg]

Why? Do you think you had noteworthy interactions with whymafia or transcend?

[Egg]

Still a good point though. I'd forgotten the whole thing about him backing off of whymafia. He probably isn't black scum.

[Egg]

Boon posted the role pms and they said that, so yes.

[Egg]

Don't care.

[Egg]

Actually

Is there a reason you don't want me scumhunting?

Because that's kind of a weird post coming from someone I just said could be scum with transcend.

[Egg]

I tracked waffles to tchill. I kinda figured he was either town telling the truth or a scum rolecop. There is no benefit to claiming any other actions. I don't want to tell scum whether certain people are power roles or not.

[Egg]

Penguin was already voting me. He wanted to reaction test me but I've played way too many games for way too long to not notice.

[Egg]

It's kind of interesting that only two of my town reads (penguin/assemble) are part of that wagon.

[Egg]

I haven't forgotten to look over vote counts by the way. I'm gonna do that tomorrow night. Today is busy.

[Egg]

I don't think Titus is scum.

[Egg]

I'm not paying you to think.

If you're paying me, please re-check the routing number. I haven't been receiving it.

[Egg]

Doesn't sound like a job we wanted scum handling anyway. Any time frame on hiring someone new?

[Egg]

So...would I...just like...pay myself, or???

[Egg]

Hmmm. Sounds like I'd be getting payed to think.

I'll take it!

So I'll get back to you on this voting thing tomorrow.

[Egg]

Sweet

[Egg]

I'm with pisskop. It's absolutely nothing that wasn't public knowledge already.

Which is why there was never any reason to out it. He wasn't lying but could have still been scum.

[Egg]

@Egg, What do you think of Srceenplay?

So on whymafia/transcend ISOs....

Lexa/screenplay:
...........
I could see this being a buddy

[Egg]

Considering he replaced lexa, he's only scum if she was.

Titus, are you ok? You usually have zero issues with reading comprehension.

[Egg]

Considering he replaced lexa, he's only scum if she was.

Titus, are you ok? You usually have zero issues with reading comprehension.

Well, that foundation isn't true. I miss things, but I've been halfhearting this game since I know Lapsa's town and only pushing me because he feels I mess up games rather than anything decent. I can't just get into the game. If we get close enough to lylo in my opinion and we're both still alive and I'm still stuck, I'll probably just self vote as Lapsa will just vote me in lylo anyway.

I mean, yeah you've missed things before but not nearly as bad as in this game. Like just this example. I looked at flipped scum, found who I think their buddy is, and you asked me for a read on that player and THEN asked me if he's only scum if the person he replaced is scum. I've never seen you so detached from a game.

_____________________

I didn't get around to the vote counts yesterday. Was busy with my brand new computer and trying to figure stuff out with it. Unfortunately, my next chance to do that is Monday.

V/LA the for the weekend starting in about two and a half hours

[Egg]

Egg, you say "never seen Titus so detached," does that mean as either town or scum?

Yes. Titus usually has a dominating presence as both town and scum.

[Egg]

Egg, you say "never seen Titus so detached," does that mean as either town or scum?

Yes. Titus usually has a dominating presence as both town and scum.

reason why she lacks such presence is simple - it's multi ball

that slot has been detached & opportunistic

since the beginning

I feel like I've seen her in games with multiple teams a few times. I'd have to get back to you on whether she was scum or not though.

[Egg]

So that was definitely hammer. I checked. And I want to out some info. I have a partner who is a limited rolecop who got a result that lexa/screenplay is a limited rolecop as well. I'm not outting any other results because it doesn't benefit my team.