Large Normal 207: Theatre Mafia

[James Brafin]

And suddenly, a new player arrives in town...

Hey! I'm James Brafin, and it's a pleasure to meet you all! I'll be subbing for MeowMix this game.
I'm kind of a new casual player, but don't let that fool you; I'm heavily invested in the meta, especially Fallacy and Gambit stuff. I'm working on memorizing them all right now. But I'm mostly here for a good time and some chill conversation; no crazy wild accusations and walls.

Now, I'm a really busy guy, and I don't have the time to read 32 pages of posts, so I'm going to try and make this quick for everyone: Can anyone condense this game into three-five paragraphs or less, so I at least have a general idea of what is going on?

[James Brafin]

OOH! "Give me evidence." Avoiding point A while trying to play off point B? Looks kind of shady to me.
Also: UNVOTE:

[James Brafin]

Back that up. They weren't helpful last time in newbie, and they were scum.
Also, we have just 2 votes on Jordan, and now one on acid. Not much difference. I think maybe scum shifted from one town to another mislynchable town.

So, because they do something as scum means, they're willing to do it as town? That seems like fishy logic to me. I smell a Fallacy, can someone give me a hand?

[James Brafin]

maybe. i'm happy with either.

Why are you happy with either? Do YOU know who the scum are?

[James Brafin]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

[James Brafin]

Dang it, I found the Fallacy!

HITLER BUILT AUTOBAHNS

Hitler Built Autobahns arguments are a subset of the Correlation Implies Causation fallacy. It is exemplified by the following formulation:
Hitler built Autobahns (freeways). Hitler was evil. Therefore, building autobahns is evil.
Although Hitler was undeniably evil, his building autobahns was neither caused by, nor the cause of, his evil. Hence, it is unreasonable to assume that building autobahns is evil, and, in fact, it is a policy which has been espoused by many different political groupings.
Whilst pyschological and behavioural scumtells exist, a huge amount of things that players say and do as scum are not directly related to their alignment. An HBA argument in mafia would be along the lines of:
'You did X as scum in the last game I played with you, and you have done it here. Therefore, you are scum.'

Exactly what is going on here. This is beginning to look real shady.

[James Brafin]

But the last game you play has no bearing on this one, no matter the situation. Just because a player does something in a previous game doesn't mean if they do the same thing here, they are the same alignment.

Yeah, you are misinterpreting that. I told people that Acid is always town when they are useless like this, he provided a counterexample. He's not trying to say that because Acid was similar they are scum here, just that they aren't always town.

I see. So you were using HBA.

[James Brafin]

I said that even if Massive was scum, scum would still be busing in that scenario.

Agreed. So right now we're looking for scum on massive. If Massive is the scum everyone thinks he is, then we can worry about him on Day 2; confirmed mafia is always better on a later date. If we're pretty sure he's mafia, the best idea is to leave him be and start looking at his wagon.

[James Brafin]

I said that even if Massive was scum, scum would still be busing in that scenario.

Agreed. So right now we're looking for scum on massive. If Massive is the scum everyone thinks he is, then we can worry about him on Day 2; confirmed mafia is always better on a later date. If we're pretty sure he's mafia, the best idea is to leave him be and start looking at his wagon.

Pardon me, I didn't finish my thought.
The same is true of Jordan or whatever. It doesn't matter WHO's wagon we're looking at, the important thing is that rather than looking at the wagon, we should be looking at potential bussers that don't want to get caught. BUt with Massive having half to lynch, I assumed there was a pretty large consensus that he looked bad.

[James Brafin]

Ok everyone let's stop this idiotic theory talk and vote Jordan

Okay, if that doesn't look scummy, I don't know what does.
VOTE: Mulch

[James Brafin]

Ok everyone let's stop this idiotic theory talk and vote Jordan

Okay, if that doesn't look scummy, I don't know what does.
VOTE: Mulch

Why is that scummy?

Are you kidding? This is a combo of Argument of Repetition and Appeal to Emotion! A pretty scummy move if I ever saw one, even more so than the HBA.
Besides, you haven't even given a legit reason for WHY Jordan should be lynched. (At least, not one I've seen.)

[James Brafin]

And this one smells like scum.
-Buddying
-asssuming that they will live until lategame with boon
-trying to change a vote via bribery

Buddying is NAI
I am never nightkilled
Asking for votes is towny or NAI

Are you never nightkilled because you're lynched as scum? Because that seems pretty scummy.

[James Brafin]

James, town are often illogical. Scum are normally "logical". And pleasant. And blend in. Mulch is a tricky scum player. But i have expereince with Mulch, and he looks (and FEELS) TOWN TO ME.

Are you accusing me of being scum? Because that looks like EXACTLY what you are doing.

[James Brafin]

I didn't do HBA. When did I do that? I thought I refuted that I did that, actually.

What is arguement of repetition and why is it scummy, and why is appeal to emoition scummy?

He should be lynched because he has not done anything towny, and has made 2 scummy posts, and has refused to follow up on questions I've asked him.

For #1, okay. For #2, AoR is saying the same thing over and over until everyone begins to think it is true. It's a pretty pungent scumtell.

And what are these scummy posts you are referring to? And can I see the questions too, please?

[James Brafin]

James, town are often illogical. Scum are normally "logical". And pleasant. And blend in. Mulch is a tricky scum player. But i have expereince with Mulch, and he looks (and FEELS) TOWN TO ME.

Are you accusing me of being scum? Because that looks like EXACTLY what you are doing.

No. Also, respond to my point or you

are

actually might probably could possibly be scum!!!!

First, I was talking to mozamis, not you, about the scum accusation. But now you are accusing me of being scum.
Second, what point? I must have missed it.

[James Brafin]

Oh, I see your point now. AtE is scummy because it appeals to emotional impulse, rather than logic.

[James Brafin]

For #2, AoR is saying the same thing over and over until everyone begins to think it is true. It's a pretty pungent scumtell.

Dafuck? Why can't town do it to get votes?

Because it means that you don't really have any reason to vote for him. You're just saying the same thing over and over to get folks to jump on your wagon. That's anti-town AT LEAST, if not scummy.

[James Brafin]

James, read the thread. Just glance thorugh it. GET THE OVERVIEW. Don't get involved in this tit-for-tat with Mulch.
I wasn't accusing you of being scum, i was saying you are wrong about Mulch.

Okay. Just making sure, since I've tried to be respectful and use logic this game.

[James Brafin]

For #2, AoR is saying the same thing over and over until everyone begins to think it is true. It's a pretty pungent scumtell.

Dafuck? Why can't town do it to get votes?

Because it means that you don't really have any reason to vote for him. You're just saying the same thing over and over to get folks to jump on your wagon. That's anti-town AT LEAST, if not scummy.

Who said I don't have a reason? Nobody asked me except now

Well, I'd like to see it.

[James Brafin]

Oh, I see your point now. AtE is scummy because it appeals to emotional impulse, rather than logic.

Why is that bad?

Because in doing so, you're basically appealing to our fear of the Mafia so you can get town lynched. THAT's the danger of AtE; the idea that someone can hesitate into voting the wrong guy and we get a bad kill.

[James Brafin]

And then a Mafia walks away scot free.

[James Brafin]

Oh, I see your point now. AtE is scummy because it appeals to emotional impulse, rather than logic.

Why is that bad?

Because in doing so, you're basically appealing to our fear of the Mafia so you can get town lynched. THAT's the danger of AtE; the idea that someone can hesitate into voting the wrong guy and we get a bad kill.

Why can't town use AtE to get a scumread lynched?


Also when did I use AtE lol. Especially when did I use a "fear of the mafia" lmfao

They could, theoretically. But WHY would a townie ever do that? It's a very scummy tell, and so puts the player at risk.
And your AtE is part of your AoR;

Ok everyone let's stop this idiotic theory talk and vote Jordan

You've just pushed to get Jordan voted, hoping that people will get scared of letting who you think is scum walk free.
Also, appreciated the lol and the lmfao. Those are also common tools (like an OMGUS) that Mafia will use when they are on the backpedal.

[James Brafin]

For #2, AoR is saying the same thing over and over until everyone begins to think it is true. It's a pretty pungent scumtell.

Dafuck? Why can't town do it to get votes?

Because it means that you don't really have any reason to vote for him. You're just saying the same thing over and over to get folks to jump on your wagon. That's anti-town AT LEAST, if not scummy.

Who said I don't have a reason? Nobody asked me except now

Well, I'd like to see it.

Why did you scumread me for it before even asking me for a reason? curious

Because you don't look like you have one, you're just AoRing. But if you have one, by all means, let's see it.

[James Brafin]

But WHY would a townie ever do that?

To get their scumreads lynched?


Also, lol and lmao are meta tells, not scumtells.

And yes, I want people to be afraid of my scumreads. What's wrong with that?

Because that's EXACTLY what a mafia would do. They breed fear among many to cause dissent and mislynch.

[James Brafin]

Why would I push someone without a reason as scum?

I don't know. But I still don't see any proof.

[James Brafin]

Why would I push someone without a reason as scum?

I don't know. But I still don't see any proof.

If you don't see any scum motiviation how is it scummy lol


Also, how the fuck am I supposed to give proof?

Lack of proof = no reason for scumread.
No reason for scumread = pressure test or scum mislynch
You're holding awfully hard for a pressure test.

And proof would be those two scummy psots you told me about, for example, or those questions you supposedly asked him.

[James Brafin]

Because that's EXACTLY what a mafia would do. They breed fear among many to cause dissent and mislynch.

Why woulden't a town do it?

Breed fear among town? Because that's so anti-town that's not even funny. Making factions is never a good townie idea. They shouldn't need to.

[James Brafin]

Because that's EXACTLY what a mafia would do. They breed fear among many to cause dissent and mislynch.

Why woulden't a town do it?

Breed fear among town? Because that's so anti-town that's not even funny. Making factions is never a good townie idea. They shouldn't need to.

Uh... why not? Why shoulden't I use fear to get my scumreads lynched?

Now we're in a circular argument. YOU DON'T MAKE FEAR BECAUSE IT IS ANTI-TOWN. And Anti-town, in my opinion, is only one step away from scummy.

[James Brafin]

But James, TAKE AN ARIAL SNAPSHOT. Maybe Mulch is making mistakes, maybe not, maybe he is being really pro town, maybe not.
BUT SCUM DONT NORMALLY PLAY LIKEHIM. SCUM ARE LOOKING AT YOU TWO ARGUING. SCUM LIK ETO BE IN THE SHADOWS, NOT OUT IN THE OPEN. NOT ARGUING THE TOSS.



STOP THE TOEN VERSUS TOWN JERK OFF, YOU'VE BOTH GOT HUGE DICKS, WE GET IT!

Whoa, dude. Chill. All I'm saying is that he's using AoR, and that looks bad.

[James Brafin]

Anyway here are the things I didn't like about them.

1) They haven't been TOWNY.


2) 619- I feel like their reads on me and acid could be fabricated. I'm not sure, though.

I think Una and Dunker are scum, their posts seem to be less "hey look, there's scum" and more "Hey [insert player here], I think you're right"

This line is legitimately a lie. Dunker has been going around saying everyone is scum. Also, it's not rock solid evidence, but Dunker is often pushed as scum when he is town, he is lynchbait.

Anyway I decided to ask for their reasoning on why I was town and they just ignored it--620.


Then, their scumread in 648 made no sense to me, although I don't often see scum 180ing their reads like that. It;s just such an easy thing to push me on, when it is something really NAI. I mean, I can see town thinking this, but I can also see scum doing this. So there is a possibility for scum motiviation here.

I ask ANOTHER follow up in 650 and still no response.

I disliked 699 his read on NK15 seemed shallow.


And finally 818 made it seem like they knew Massive was town and was trying to setup a lynch on me aftewards.

Okay. On 619, I can see your concern. But on 620, he may have just missed it.
I actually agree with Xnad on this; that does seem like a mighty middle finger point to me, to be deliberately confusing, and is a little scummy. But I'm not sure why he didn't respond to that one. As for 699, I'm not ggod enough to determine whether it was shallow or not, and 818 looked like he was jumping on the bandwagon. That's all. Oh and by the way, you ARE the bandwagon now. Just so you know.

[James Brafin]

No, now Xand is, now that NK15 has posted.

[James Brafin]

More importantly, what towny things have they done. NONE.

I wouldn't know on that point. I haven't been here long enough.
With all that being said, I do think your argument may be valid.
VOTE: XnadrojX
But for future reference, you should NEVER EVER EVER try AoR. That is what got me on your case. It looks SO anti-town, it is not even funny, regardless of your intention.

[James Brafin]

We've had claims?

[James Brafin]

What did Massive claim?

[James Brafin]

Has anyone else claimed? What the heck have I missed?

[James Brafin]

Kay, I found it. That's... interesting. Not really sure what to make of that.

[James Brafin]

I think I'm going to look at the 6+ pages and try to scum read a few. Unless someone has an issue with that.

[James Brafin]

James Brafin is either completely adorable or a very well-done alt.

Sorry, what? What does that mean?

[James Brafin]

Okay, WOW. I've done a sift of pages 6-11, and this is what I've got:

I sense a town win. I have too many townreads

How do you have "Too many townreads?" Are you so confident in your reading ability that you know from the get-go who is town? And if so, why?

I feel so bad, but Una’s actually scum.

I'm confused by the early claim. And Boon, why are you calling Una scum and yet voting for Meow?

I’m a hard reaction test player.

This is absolutely crud. A one word response for Boon's 'read' on Una that skirts the question.

i don't think me boon or mulch are scummy it's just no one knows our metas

You can’t put yourself there.

annoyingly that leans towards Town dunker.

What

A one-word post. Great. That doesn't look at all like spam.

still don't really like boon. the rest of you have meta on him so your reads might be clearer but everything he posts seems to serve to intentionally confuse. wagon on me also came up p fast in response to my vote on him

mulch's vote on me feels opportunistic

I like the cut of mozamis's jib

@xx don't know you sorry

How opportunistic?

Again, a two-word post. He's not even fully forming thoughts before he launches them.

so opportunistic

Why

And again.

I also had 21 players. But generally I wouldn’t think that 15-3-3 is unbalanced. 12-3-3 could work, but it’s probably just 4-14. Or 14-3-1

Boon seems awfully sure of himself about the setup. It seems to me that he knows WAY too much when that's included in his first.

Why can’t unexplained townreads be genuine?

DUDE. This is SO scummy. An unexplained townread can't be genuine because it looks like you are just trying to cover for your scumbuddy.

As a matter of fact, I think Mulch, Boon, and Xnadrojx are all part of a scumteam together, and they are now bussing Xnadroxjx for something stupid he said in a later post.

12-18 will come later, but for right now, this is me.

[James Brafin]

Excuse me, typo:

I feel so bad, but Una’s actually scum.

I'm confused by the early claim. And Boon, why are you calling Una scum and yet voting for Meow?

I’m a hard reaction test player.

This is absolutely crud. A one

sentence

response for Boon's 'read' on Una that skirts the question.

[/quote]

[James Brafin]

As a matter of fact, I think Mulch, Boon, and Xnadrojx are all part of a scumteam together, and they are now bussing Xnadroxjx for something stupid he said in a later post.

I think you are probably wrong about Boon and Mulch. But if you could vote for Xnand, that would be great, as we are running out of time.

I am voting for Xnad. I'm just saying that it looks to me like Boon and Mulch look like his potential scumbuddies to me.

[James Brafin]

James can be vigged too , ty

And why exactly do you want me killed, Mulch? Is my logic too powerful for you?

[James Brafin]

I mean I quite literally said, it's almost impossible to explain. What's wrong with that? It's a gut soul meta read

Hmm.

Mulch, are you scum?

1. Because I asked for an explanation and there was never a detailed explanation.

This is a mulch towntell lol

1. Because I asked for an explanation and there was never a detailed explanation.

This is a mulch towntell lol

Yeah, Mulch is pretty easy to meta read, I feel. That’s not a bad thing. When town, that’s kind of the best. Sucks when scum, but then once you abuse the fact you’re easy to meta read is when people will start to get forever paranoid and kind of wreck your town game for a bit.

Boon is so hard to read but my soul says no

His play wrecks any first time players to lmao

My goodness! Maybe I'm insane, but it looks to me like Boon and Carcalily are trying desperately to cover for Mulch here. Bussing might have been just as bad at this point, but these pots look like some folks trying to protect their team.

[James Brafin]

Like... Decently confident we are both town

Meow isn't towny

Wtf those are my highest town reads

Wow. Why so confident in that town read, Mulch? And you seem to be pretty irritated when folks don't agree with your town reads.

I’d bus Mulch for fun.

I’d bus Mulch for fun.

If this doesn't stink to high heaven, I don't know what does. Joking about bussing to avoid lynching and get Mulch out of some heavy fire.

I’d bus Mulch for fun.

lets do it
VOTE: Mulch

Why? I’m not scum, and neither is he.

how do you he's not scum if you aren't scum?

Psychic.

Yeah, right. That makes so much sense. I'd bet on these two being scumbuddies. All this tag-teaming and "oh, I know he's not scum" seems suspicious to me.

[James Brafin]

James can be vigged too , ty

And why exactly do you want me killed, Mulch? Is my logic too powerful for you?

I feel like you are going to be a detriment to town

So a policy kill? You do understand how scummy that sounds, right? You want me dead because I keep pointing out the problems in your posts, not because I'm going to be a town detriment.

[James Brafin]

Also, I want to make clear that I’m not giving mulch a strong townread, it’s more of a null. Is everyone saying mulch is town very confidant he is town? Same question goes to the people on his bus.

I'm town. The reasons for voting me are shit and the longer the votes stay on me the more likely they come from scum

No explanation, just scummy panic defense.

Like they just really really are

continuation of panic defense.

Someone needs to vig this dude holy shit

ANOTHER policy kill. Mulch has a nasty habit of wanting to "policy kill" anyone who might suspect him...

Let's lynch Kamina

Can you explain to me why we should lynch Kamina over Mulch, who is clearly evil?

Why couldn't I have forgotten to answer your question?

You could. It is just not very likely.
And even if it IS true: I don't trust your explanation. You still defended someone from a valid question with a wrong answer. You are still sus for mentioning multiball.

Why is it not likely for me to forget? Why is it a wrong answer? If it IS a wrong answer (don't even know at this point) why couldn't I have made a mistake? What's my scum motivation for answeing something incorrect factually? Why can't town have brought up multiball? What makes scum more likely to do it, considering that I was aware that scum could he doing it to signal and even had a paranoia theory against someone because of it?
About 7 questions for you to answer

SEVEN questions. SEVEN. And a few have no bearing on the quote. This is insane.

Mulch, back off NotKnown. He's obv town.

Yeah, but so is Mulch.

And how do we know this, exactly? I've never seen a good scumread on Mulch.

Someone needs to vig this dude holy shit

Why isn't NK allowed to scumread you

Do you really think your play has been beyond reproach

He’s allowed to scumread me. In fact, I don’t even scumread him . But I want him to come to terms with himself jay his push is bad and I’m trying to do that by having him answer these questions and realize his process is flawed

Mulch certainly slipped up here. He asks for me to get vigged, and posts later he says that he doesn't scumread me?
Let's lynch him.

Correct, I don't scumread you and I still want you vigged

That makes as much sense as a monkey in a tutu. Why should we kill someone "just because?"

Mulch, we need to focus on getting Meow lynched. Don't get sidetracked in some TvT debate.

Right. But I want him to admit he's wrong

WHY? WHY do you want him to be wrong so bad?

[James Brafin]

Why would scum be so obvious that a terrible player like you could pick them up lol

Why am I so bad? Just because I'm new?

[James Brafin]

James can be vigged too , ty

And why exactly do you want me killed, Mulch? Is my logic too powerful for you?

I feel like you are going to be a detriment to town

So a policy kill? You do understand how scummy that sounds, right? You want me dead because I keep pointing out the problems in your posts, not because I'm going to be a town detriment.

I mean, you keep saying random things and saying they are “problems”. Like, me saying “the sky is blue” and that’s scummy for you. Technically true, but not scummy.

None of these are random. I am taking specific posts and pointing out the obvious flaws in them.

[James Brafin]

Can you answer the questions fully instead of vague one sentence answers- The red responses and subsequent questions were much more multi-faceted and complex than those responses would warrant.

Dude, this sums up half of my problems with your answers. AND YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. A one sentence, vague answer doesn't work.

[James Brafin]

I'm not a good player?

And this looks really AtE to me. "Oh, I'm not a good player? Oh, poor me! Don't lynch me, show me some pity!"

[James Brafin]

Why would scum be so obvious that a terrible player like you could pick them up lol

Why am I so bad? Just because I'm new?

The way you are approaching the game is bad. You are already succumbing to confirmation bias , and the things you scumread people for are all bad . Specially the logical fallacies

Lots of logical fallacy tend to be scumtell. You're right, one on their own is not, but Lots and lots of little ones make for a pretty powerful case against a player.

Can you answer the questions fully instead of vague one sentence answers- The red responses and subsequent questions were much more multi-faceted and complex than those responses would warrant.

Dude, this sums up half of my problems with your answers. AND YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. A one sentence, vague answer doesn't work.

Just ask me to explain then lol

Alright, then explain a few. Like the ones below:

James can be vigged too , ty

And why exactly do you want me killed, Mulch? Is my logic too powerful for you?

I feel like you are going to be a detriment to town

So a policy kill? You do understand how scummy that sounds, right? You want me dead because I keep pointing out the problems in your posts, not because I'm going to be a town detriment.

I mean, you keep saying random things and saying they are “problems”. Like, me saying “the sky is blue” and that’s scummy for you. Technically true, but not scummy.

None of these are random. I am taking specific posts and pointing out the obvious flaws in them.

? Everything you have pointed out isn’t scummy. You haven’t even explained why any are scummy .

Also, I want to make clear that I’m not giving mulch a strong townread, it’s more of a null. Is everyone saying mulch is town very confidant he is town? Same question goes to the people on his bus.

I'm town. The reasons for voting me are shit and the longer the votes stay on me the more likely they come from scum

No explanation, just scummy panic defense.

Like they just really really are

continuation of panic defense.

Someone needs to vig this dude holy shit

ANOTHER policy kill. Mulch has a nasty habit of wanting to "policy kill" anyone who might suspect him...

Let's lynch Kamina

Can you explain to me why we should lynch Kamina over Mulch, who is clearly evil?

Why couldn't I have forgotten to answer your question?

You could. It is just not very likely.
And even if it IS true: I don't trust your explanation. You still defended someone from a valid question with a wrong answer. You are still sus for mentioning multiball.

Why is it not likely for me to forget? Why is it a wrong answer? If it IS a wrong answer (don't even know at this point) why couldn't I have made a mistake? What's my scum motivation for answeing something incorrect factually? Why can't town have brought up multiball? What makes scum more likely to do it, considering that I was aware that scum could he doing it to signal and even had a paranoia theory against someone because of it?
About 7 questions for you to answer

SEVEN questions. SEVEN. And a few have no bearing on the quote. This is insane.

Mulch, back off NotKnown. He's obv town.

Yeah, but so is Mulch.

And how do we know this, exactly? I've never seen a good scumread on Mulch.

Someone needs to vig this dude holy shit

Why isn't NK allowed to scumread you

Do you really think your play has been beyond reproach

He’s allowed to scumread me. In fact, I don’t even scumread him . But I want him to come to terms with himself jay his push is bad and I’m trying to do that by having him answer these questions and realize his process is flawed

Mulch certainly slipped up here. He asks for me to get vigged, and posts later he says that he doesn't scumread me?
Let's lynch him.

Correct, I don't scumread you and I still want you vigged

That makes as much sense as a monkey in a tutu. Why should we kill someone "just because?"

So, what exactly is all this? NOT explaining how this stuff looks scummy?

[James Brafin]

Firstly, this is not Burden of Proof. I'm not asking you to prove that you are not scummy, I'm pointing out reasons you could be scummy! Big difference there.
And the scummy stems from:
A: Lots of one-sentence, vague answers (None of which that I just pointed out you will explain.)
B: Obvious panic and self-defense
C: Wanting to kill other players just because they don't agree with you and/or scumread you. Yeah, that especially isn't scummy at all.

[James Brafin]

But yes. You’re right. I am sure of myself. Because that’s my town game for you...that damn good. And arrogant, so even if it’s wrong, I adapt. I’m like a boiling liquid.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ng:_A_Plea

[James Brafin]

I wasn't aware you WERE scumreading me. but okay.
It does look to me like you guys are tag teaming to either get someone mislynched or bus Xand though.

[James Brafin]

Okay. That's not the vibe I've gotten, but changing your vote to me certainly makes it seem like it.
If it is a mislynch though, Mulch looks kind of shady to me.

[James Brafin]

Which is part of why Mulch seems suspect to me. Why is he SO sure that Xand is the mafia?
Right now, I'm sheeping, but concerned that this may turn out bad for us.

[James Brafin]

Which is part of why Mulch seems suspect to me. Why is he SO sure that Xand is the mafia?
Right now, I'm sheeping, but concerned that this may turn out bad for us.

why are you sheeting if concerned this might turn out bad for us and you are suspicious of Mulch? That doesn’t make sense.

Seems like you are on the wagon, knowing it’s town, and want to help push the wagon along, but also show that you had doubts about it for mediocre town cred.

Excellent point. Sheeping him IS a bad idea.
VOTE: Mulch

[James Brafin]

Well, I have a feeling that Mulch may be bussing Xand for something. But so far, I've read 18 and found no answers. SO I'm starting to lose faith in him.
You're absolutle right. It makes NO sense to keep on Xand's bandwagon when the evidence is low.
Unfortunately, it may make little difference. With L-4, It looks bad for Xand.

[James Brafin]

Firstly, this is not Burden of Proof. I'm not asking you to prove that you are not scummy, I'm pointing out reasons you could be scummy! Big difference there.
And the scummy stems from:
A: Lots of one-sentence, vague answers (None of which that I just pointed out you will explain.)
B: Obvious panic and self-defense
C: Wanting to kill other players just because they don't agree with you and/or scumread you. Yeah, that especially isn't scummy at all.

Why are one sentence words scummy? Why is self defense scummy?

One sentence allows you to make accusation without really giving a reason. Self Defense is only scummy when it is panicked.

How do you know I’m panicking? I was not.

Sure looked like panic to me. Maybe it wasn't but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I only want to kill bad wrong players, like you and NK15. People I disagree with that are good like rask and boon can live

In other words, players that don't agree with you most of the time should be killed, while players that do agree with you most of the time should not. THAT makes a lot of sense.

[James Brafin]

Nah. If he was scum, you look more like the busses than Mulch. Why would Mulch push him so hard right now if thye were buddies, when he easily could push elsewhere and stop his buddies lynch?

Because that's what bussing is: pushing to get a scum that the town knows about lynched so that you look like town.

[James Brafin]

Not if one guy is dead. Then Mulch will look really town.
But I may be using the wrong terminology here. If Mulch is scum and Xand is not, then he's trying for a mislynch, not a bus.
But if they are both scum, then Mulch is trying for a bus.
Either way, this only makes sense if Mulch is scum.
Of course, then again, Mulch could also be getting a misread, but I don't think that's what is going on right now.

[James Brafin]

I’ve unfortunately seen him tunnel town before, and seen him hit scum on my null reads that I’ve protected before. I don’t believe that he’s ever hit scum on someone I town read, though, unless he was scum.

I think for this reason, Mulch was scum. He seems to be pushing a town read for no reason except he can. And that seems SO fishy to me. He's so completely tunneling it's not even funny, and isn't looking at the possibility that Xand might not be scum.

That’s exactly what I think is happening.

I think what should happen is that we all jump on the XnadrojX wagon before time runs out and we get a nolynch.

Either you mean we all jump off and we get a no-lynch, or we all jump on and get a potential mislynch. Right?

Also, what should happen is that some investigative person looks at Mulch(because Mulch is currently scum for some, and town for others)

Definitely needs to happen.

Also, what should not happen is that Mulch(not everyone, just mulch) vigs me or james(because that would make them look like a Serial Killer)

My guess is that Mulch IS an SK, and he's going to try and blow it off as vig kills.

[James Brafin]

Mulch

was

scum?

Excuse me. Wrong tense. Mulch

IS

scum

[James Brafin]

Here's what we are looking at, folks:

Official Vote Count

XnadrojX

(7): Fykus, Mulch, massive, mozamis, Not Known 15, texcat, wavemode

massive

(3): UnaBombaH, acidphoenix, XnadrojX

Mulch

(2): Raskolnikov, James Brafin

James Brafin

(2): pisskop, Boonskiies

mozamis

(1): Dunkerdoodles

Fykus

(1): Kaminaseigaku

Boonskiies

(1): Carcalilly

Not Voting

(1): Assemblerotws

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-10-14 15:00:00)

[James Brafin]

i don't like xan wagon at all
VOTE: mulch
looks like this is more likely then moz

Why are you hell bent on ruining this game?

Wow. Why is voting for you going to ruin the game? What's so bad about being suspicious of all of the stuff you have done, most of which (in my opinion) look REAL scummy?

[James Brafin]

Less than 2 hours left. We might have reached hammer, but I am not sure, so keep voting XnadojX

You can check at the first post; there's a link to the vote counter.

[James Brafin]

Yeah, he is at L-1

If James dosen't hammer he's confirmed scum

Okay, why the HECK does not hammering make me confirmed scum? I want an explanation on day 2. But right now I'll humor you and
VOTE: XnadojX
There. I sheeped you, Mulch, and you got what you wanted. Great. But if Xand is town, My No. 1 scumread is YOU. I just want to make that clear.

[James Brafin]

Okay, why the HECK does not hammering make me confirmed scum?

Because you consciously robbed town of a lynch. When even a mislynch is better than a no lynch.

While I'll agree that a mislynch is better than a no-lynch, a mislynch lead by player A whom player B thinks is scummy is not grounds to claim scum on player B just because he doesn't agree. That's like saying all of those who are not on the wagon are scum.

But if Xand is town, My No. 1 scumread is YOU. I just want to make that clear.

This makes me think you know he is town. is this true?

Heck no. I don't know if he's town. But if he does flip town, I think you look scummy and are trying to purposely lead a mislynch on Xand, because your only argument for him being scum, as far as I've seen, is "He's scum."

[James Brafin]

Also, do we know any of the roles?