Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[Empking]

@mod

- Is there any difference between the mafia and mafia goon flips?

No

[Furry]

After manho reclaims I will post what the setup is

[saberwolf]

why would town lose? All we need to do is lynch the final scum and its over, simple as that.

Three deaths N1, three deaths N2. That means we have three killing factions, everyone claimed VT, so unless someone really is the vig and lied, there are two anti-town players alive.

this is pretty bad logic.

scenario 1: we had 3 killing factions, mafia team 1, mafia team 2, and a vig
4 mafia are dead, so that leaves a vig a VT and scum, making one of the teams unbalanced

scenario 2: that would make both manho and myself scum [from your POV]
This logic also fails because that would be defined as a scum win because of majority. Even if manho and I were both scum but different factions, that would still lead to a uneven balance of mafia teams. Also, that would create 6 anti-town players, in a 13 player game. Kinda too scary to be true. If it weren't for the fact that mafia crosskilled every night, it'd be a guaranteed mafia win.

Scenario 3: <reserved for after manho contributes>

[Furry]

Actually it is either

4 mafia
1 SK
1 vig
7 VT

4 mafia
2 SK
7 VT

[saberwolf]

ok then, in that case, you're boned either way [realise I am humoring you here and pretending hypothetically you're absolute VT and this is from your POV]

assuming we are both SK me and manho, voting for either one of us wouldn't matter.
You simply choose one of us, the other quicklynches, and you're NKed.

voting no lynch doesn't help you, cause if there's a nolynch. we either kill someone and scum win, or scum crosskill and nothing happens [assuming SKs are NK immune], and we're back at square 1.

assuming one of us is vig and one of us is SK, you can't trust the claim of either one of us, especially as we both claimed to be VT.

[Furry]

ok then, in that case, you're boned either way [realise I am humoring you here and pretending hypothetically you're absolute VT and this is from your POV]

assuming we are both SK me and manho, voting for either one of us wouldn't matter.
You simply choose one of us, the other quicklynches, and you're NKed.

voting no lynch doesn't help you, cause if there's a nolynch. we either kill someone and scum win, or scum crosskill and nothing happens [assuming SKs are NK immune], and we're back at square 1.

assuming one of us is vig and one of us is SK, you can't trust the claim of either one of us, especially as we both claimed to be VT.

Actually chances are I will be voting a no lynch after I prove each of you are SKs.

Now, im operating under the likelyhood that you are both SKs due to imbalance that would be five mafia. This also mean you are both NK immune, in fact I would not be surprised if one of you tried to kill the other last night.

From there a no lynch creates a tie game. If either of you kill me, you likely endgame eachother, no one wins. So anyone doing anything loses them the game.

This all depends on manho not being a vig though.

[saberwolf]

why just manho? why does he get a chance to retract his VT statement?

also, what happens if manho does claim vig? This scenario already has been explained.

Also, I'd like to know what you thought of your predecessor and his play throughout the game. I kinda figured if anything he was the SK, as it now makes sense whereas before it didn't when looking at F_C as a mafia possibility.

[Furry]

also, what happens if manho does claim vig? This scenario already has been explained.

It matters. It will very likely change the outcome of the game

Also, I'd like to know what you thought of your predecessor and his play throughout the game. I kinda figured if anything he was the SK, as it now makes sense whereas before it didn't when looking at F_C as a mafia possibility.

I havent read the game apart from the OP. I dont intend to untill I figure out what I am up against, since after the setup is known I would need to reread either way.

[Furry]

why just manho? why does he get a chance to retract his VT statement?

Also if you are going to retract it, do so in the next post or I wont believe it later under any circumstances

[saberwolf]

why just manho? why does he get a chance to retract his VT statement?

Also if you are going to retract it, do so in the next post or I wont believe it later under any circumstances

I have no intention of retracting. I'm VT. But I was just curious as why you targetted manho for retractment. I guess it's part of your secret plan, so I'll let you be for now.

Make sure you read my ISOs from earlier as well as ISO me if you have the time please.

[Furry]

I guess it's part of your secret plan, so I'll let you be for now.

Yep. My hypothesis is about 95% proven already though

[manho]

hi Furry. and i'm VT.

i think there should be 2 mafia team, with 2 scums each, and 1 SK. it can explain the 3 NK in N1 and N2. and we have 1 scum left in N3, so we can have the 2 NK in N3. so, for now we have 1 SK and 2 VT left.

[Furry]

hi Furry. and i'm VT.

i think there should be 2 mafia team, with 2 scums each, and 1 SK. it can explain the 3 NK in N1 and N2. and we have 1 scum left in N3, so we can have the 2 NK in N3. so, for now we have 1 SK and 2 VT left.

Yeah the mod confirmed all dead mafia were on the same team. Not going to fly hun.

So, you guys are both SKs, im the last VT, which sucks because I need a pro-town player to be alive to win.

Proof of this being 2 SKs, 1 VT is simple.

There have been three deaths a night for most nights. This mean there are three killing factions. None of you have claimed vig (damn, you were both confirmed non vig with iso reads). Therefore, there are at least two killing roles alive. Five scum is unbalanced, so thats out. No one is a vig, so thats out. All that is left are SKs. There are two of them.

Now, I know im the last VT. You two are both SKs, so my next goal is to prove that each of you are the other SK. I *think* that one of you figured that out last night, I would assume not manho given that he was going to try and lynch me today. Maybe one of you doubled up a kill, but I think that saber tried to kill manho last night. Either way, if that happened, one of you know the other is a SK already.

If I die, you two will endgame eachother. Everyone loses. So you two are playing to lynch the other, which I will not do, I am playing for a tie, which you will do.

Im going to get more concrete evidence that you guys are SKs so you dont kill me at night losing everyone the game, once I do, I will vote no lynch.

Ciao

[manho]

no, the mod say "mafia"="mafia goon" only, so the 4 scum have the same roles, not necessary being in the same team.

@mod, is it possible that there are 2 mafia teams?

[Furry]

Lets just make it clear as possible

@mod

- Are pyro, santos, deathnote and rising of the same faction?

[saberwolf]

manho: seeing as we are both apparantly SKs, maybe we should just both vote furry

but seriously, I'm not liking furry's attitude, to me it's the same as not taking sides by saying we are both scummy, just so that (s)he can wait to make the second move.

As of yet you have failed to prove anything. Your conclusions are based on theories, and no proven facts. Your predecessor was particularly scummy, and his only saving grace was he had two scum on his BW, which cleared him for a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were the SK. He suspected Manho, which to be honest, he had escaped my radar completely, but I guess it's possible too. I would like to see more coming from manho other than simple one liners, and for furry, I'd like to see either hardcore evidence showing we are both SK (which won't happen, because it isn't true) or at least a case on either one/both of us showing why either is a good reason to lynch.

Manho: why haven't you said much? Are you just hoping to ride this out for a quicklynch?

[manho]

manho: seeing as we are both apparantly SKs, maybe we should just both vote furry

yes, we should lynch furry and have a tie. just kidding.

but seriously, I'm not liking furry's attitude, to me it's the same as not taking sides by saying we are both scummy, just so that (s)he can wait to make the second move.

i think his next move will be voting no lynch and persuade us to a no lynch. then he will nk one of us and get the win, if he is really the SK, and that's what i think.

FC is definitely not a mafia, like i said yesterday, but can be the SK. as for saber, i haven't done the reread i said before, but i want to make sure the setup first. i'm worried that you both are SKs, although the chance is really small.

[Empking]

no, the mod say "mafia"="mafia goon" only, so the 4 scum have the same roles, not necessary being in the same team.

@mod, is it possible that there are 2 mafia teams?

Yes.

@mod - Are pyro, santos, deathnote and rising of the same faction?

No comment.

[Furry]

or at least a case on either one/both of us showing why either is a good reason to lynch.

Ahhh.. you miss my point.

There is no way I am voting anything but no lynch today.

Need to do some thinking about what the setup is, a mod refusing clarify if players are from the same faction is kind of bastardly. Given my alignment I know its not 6-3-3-1, and a 7-3-2-1 isnt balanced, so it still looks like 6-4-1-1, as we need three anti-town killing factions

[Furry]

Both of you answer this question though:

How does santos dying eliminate a nightkill and keep balance in the game?

The answer to this is why I still think you guys are both anti-town

[saberwolf]

Ok I'm going hypothetical of course, but there is ways for it just to be one SK:

Mafia Team one: Pyro, DeathNote
Mafia Team two: Rising, Santos
SK: Furry [just using your name]

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1

Killed by team 1

12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by team 2

1. Rising

Jackinthebox

- Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by SK

11. Donkeyz12212 - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos - Mafia Goon - Killed night 2

killed by SK

6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 1

7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 2

13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

- Mafia Goon - Killed night 3

Killed by SK

5. Xofelf

RealityFan

- Vanilla Townie - Killed night 3

Killed by team 1

That wasn't so hard.

[Furry]

I dont think that is too balanced though... but its the only way that it could be just a SK remaining. 8-2-2-1 is just super unbalanced for scum, 6-3-3-1 would make more sense

[saberwolf]

I dont think that is too balanced though... but its the only way that it could be just a SK remaining. 8-2-2-1 is just super unbalanced for scum, 6-3-3-1 would make more sense

how is it unbalanced though? 6-3-3-1 is more unbalanced because worst case scenario you're down to 7 players at mylo. 8-2-2-1 you're down to 5 players at mylo. So your logic fails here too.

So far nothing you said has been proven right, and has actually been proven wrong. Everything you have been saying is off of theory and guesswork, and little to no facts.

FoS: Furry

The only think keeping me from voting you is manho's lurking.

[saberwolf]

another thing. 6-3-3-1 isnt possible in this game

that would make all three of us here mafia and SK, making nobody town. 6 townies have already been killed, 4 mafia are dead, leaving two spots left, and none of us can be on the same mafia team or itd be over, and the one who isnt mafia would be SK. I find this to be really unbelievable.

Seeing as I'm VT, I know that not to be true, but I'm wondering if somehow you slipped with your alignment in these numbers of yours...

manho, your thoughts on this?

[Furry]

Thats the arguement im using for a 7-4-1-1

With two scum per team, I would be amazingly pissed if I was scum and knew what I was up against. There is almost no chance of them being able to win with cross kills. I think a SK has the same if not slightly better win chances then scum if thats our setup.

Its interesting though that manho is somewhat more accepting of my no lynch then you. Just for that reason, I would actually prefer he votes me before you do if that is what is happening. If I am the last anti-town, it wont matter since he thinks I am scum over you. If he is the last anti-town, im not going to quicklynch you, and you wont quicklynch me.