Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[saberwolf]

I agree with the last part of your statement, however, just because I won't quicklynch you doesn't mean I won't vote for you. If I genuinely feel you are scum, I will vote, but for now I am content with nobody voting while we all try to sift through each other's gameplay. I have already done my ISOs on both of you, and because we all agree that its just an SK left, there is no point in analyzing vote counts. As it stands I think Furry is scummiest, but it's manho's lurking at the endgame that is bothering me. I am not about to make any sudden moves while he doesn't contribute.

If we are done discussing theory, please start scumhunting. Thanks.

[manho]

i'm not lurking, just in a different time zone. you two are talking in 2am in my time zone, and i was sleeping then.

6-3-3-1 is impossible, as the 3 of us need to be all anti-town.
7-4-2 is possible, but not likely.
8-2-2-1 is what saber and me believe now, but i also find it a bit difficult for the scums. the scums should be very protective of his scum-buddy, and i think it can be proven with their posts.

i think 8 townie in a 13 players setup is balanced, and bear in mind we have 3 NKs each night, if scum didn't crosskill, the town will be in a difficult situation. 7 in 13 is just above half, and consider a 7 townie vs 4 scum situation, can you believe that? if the mod really want 2 SKs, a 8-3-2 setup will be better.

[Furry]

If we are done discussing theory, please start scumhunting. Thanks.

Soon, even though I am leaning voting manho off a quick iso read. I would almost rather him just vote me now to save time if you are scum (dont feel like wasting a few hours if you are SK on a wrong case), since there is no way he will vote you if he is scum, and almost no way if he is town.

[manho]

Soon, even though I am leaning voting manho off a quick iso read. I would almost rather him just vote me now to save time if you are scum (dont feel like wasting a few hours if you are SK on a wrong case), since there is no way he will vote you if he is scum, and almost no way if he is town.

is it based on the fact that "you know you are town" or what? i didn't understand any thing you said.

[saberwolf]

I don't like how hard Furry is trying to push himself as town, without showing a case or evidence to back it up.

Also, Furry doesn't seem to be taking sides. He is just carefully phrases his posts trying to gauge reactions from them.

[Furry]

Soon, even though I am leaning voting manho off a quick iso read. I would almost rather him just vote me now to save time if you are scum (dont feel like wasting a few hours if you are SK on a wrong case), since there is no way he will vote you if he is scum, and almost no way if he is town.

is it based on the fact that "you know you are town" or what? i didn't understand any thing you said.

I was drinking, so sue me.

Anyways. Its really obvious that you are going to vote me over saber if you are town (almost to the fact that you not voting me yet is shocking), I saw that in your language yesterday, I saw that in early posts today. I am likely going to be voting you once I get a case up, but given that you are already planning on voting me, I would rather you do that now instead of after I vote you, just on the off chance that saber is scum.

[saberwolf]

Soon, even though I am leaning voting manho off a quick iso read. I would almost rather him just vote me now to save time if you are scum (dont feel like wasting a few hours if you are SK on a wrong case), since there is no way he will vote you if he is scum, and almost no way if he is town.

is it based on the fact that "you know you are town" or what? i didn't understand any thing you said.

I was drinking, so sue me.

Anyways. Its really obvious that you are going to vote me over saber if you are town (almost to the fact that you not voting me yet is shocking), I saw that in your language yesterday, I saw that in early posts today. I am likely going to be voting you once I get a case up, but given that you are already planning on voting me, I would rather you do that now instead of after I vote you, just on the off chance that saber is scum.

I don't get this logic...so you want manho to vote for you, just in case I'm anti-town and might quicklynch? Can you please post something half-decent and useful tot he rest of us for a change please?

Once again, I'm keeping my vote off until I see you both make a case against the other two. I am now giving you both until the end of the week. The one who does the worst job earns my vote, simple as that. If that doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

[Furry]

The one who does the worst job earns my vote, simple as that. If that doesn't motivate you, I don't know what will.

Ummm... you should be deciding on your own with what other say influencing you. Not making a decision on your own on reads before isnt a good thing to do.

[saberwolf]

I already had made a decision based my own ISOs, and it would be currently leaning towards you. I also believe in giving others a fair chance at defending themselves, plus if you were to do an ISO on manho and point out a scumtell that I missed, that could make the difference and make me switch my vote to him.

[Furry]

After a lot, and by a lot I mean about the first two weeks of the game, of lurking. We get the first contentish post as follows

vote: pimj

, he is too defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

This missing on logic though. He is arguing that defending a player is a scum tell. Now, to have this hold true as a scumtell, he would have to agree with the read of toast-town, since as scum, its the better wagon to join, bringing evidence of bussing at a later time.

Now, that means that he is voting a player for defending a player that he thinks is town, which makes no sense at all. The vote here is made on very faulty logic and conflicting reads.

i think the initial post by toast is not that scummy, but a scum would do it. what pimj did is scummy. his reaction to FC's accusation is too strong, and his vote has no real support. then he lurk after being accused.

Just proved my point that he is attacking a player for defending someone he seems to have a townish read on.

Far_Cry and manho: If we were to lynch Pimj today and he were to flip town, what would that say about toast to you? What about if we lynched toast, does that take some of the pressure off of Pimj?

toast will become neutral to scummy if pimj turns town. if toast turns town, the pressure will slight relieve, but he will still be scummy as his vote is scummy. if toast turns scum, then pimj is scum.

And here comes the justification to lynch pimj regardless of what toast flips. If toast is town, he was scum buddying up by defending him. If toast is scum, he is scum defending his buddy. This is just textbook lining up lynches.

1. Jackinthebox777 - not much content from his posts.
2. Santos - again not much content, but his latest post has some good point.
3. Devestation - really a hypocrite but accusing sudai of being hypocritical
4. Far_Cry - attacking toast and pimj for some valid reasons and contribute a lot in other ways, which is pro-town, imo.
5. RealityFan - not much content again, but trying to be useful, which is pro-town.
6. Toast - that conversation-starting post is neutral to scummy. lurking and leaving the game under attack.
7. Boxman - not much content again. voted FC to give pressure.
8. Pimj - see my previous post which explain my vote on him. lurking and leaving the game under attack, like toast.
9. Saberwolf - pretty much leading the town. maybe town or scum trying to act pro-town.
10. manho - definitely innocent, imo.
11. Donkeyz - contribute lots to the game. my gut tell me he is innocent.
12. Sudai - is there someone think sudai is scummy, can that someone tell me why.
13. Chaco (replacing RobotPirateNinja) - looking for his posts.

Check the nothingness reads

lurker/neutral x7
town x3
scum x2

Whole lot of nothing said in this, over half the game he has no read on, but just finds creative ways to say it

More later hun

[manho]

After a lot, and by a lot I mean about the first two weeks of the game, of lurking. We get the first contentish post as follows

vote: pimj

, he is

too

defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

This missing on logic though. He is arguing that defending a player is a scum tell. Now, to have this hold true as a scumtell, he would have to agree with the read of toast-town, since as scum, its the better wagon to join, bringing evidence of bussing at a later time.

Now, that means that he is voting a player for defending a player that he thinks is town, which makes no sense at all. The vote here is made on very faulty logic and conflicting reads.

i'm not voting pimj for defending toast, but that pimj is too defensive on toast.

And here comes the justification to lynch pimj regardless of what toast flips. If toast is town, he was scum buddying up by defending him. If toast is scum, he is scum defending his buddy. This is just textbook lining up lynches.

yes, i thought pimj is scum regardless of what toast flips.

1. Jackinthebox777 - not much content from his posts.
2. Santos - again not much content, but his latest post has some good point.
3. Devestation - really a hypocrite but accusing sudai of being hypocritical
4. Far_Cry - attacking toast and pimj for some valid reasons and contribute a lot in other ways, which is pro-town, imo.
5. RealityFan - not much content again, but trying to be useful, which is pro-town.
6. Toast - that conversation-starting post is neutral to scummy. lurking and leaving the game under attack.
7. Boxman - not much content again. voted FC to give pressure.
8. Pimj - see my previous post which explain my vote on him. lurking and leaving the game under attack, like toast.
9. Saberwolf - pretty much leading the town. maybe town or scum trying to act pro-town.
10. manho - definitely innocent, imo.
11. Donkeyz - contribute lots to the game. my gut tell me he is innocent.
12. Sudai - is there someone think sudai is scummy, can that someone tell me why.
13. Chaco (replacing RobotPirateNinja) - looking for his posts.

Check the nothingness reads

lurker/neutral x7
town x3
scum x2

Whole lot of nothing said in this, over half the game he has no read on, but just finds creative ways to say it

that's not my fault that those players are not posting content. and with 12 players, there should be 4 players in neutral, so i just have 3 lurkers more than a average LoS.

case on FC (or saber) is coming later.

[Furry]

After a lot, and by a lot I mean about the first two weeks of the game, of lurking. We get the first contentish post as follows

vote: pimj

, he is

too

defensive on toast, and he even vote FC for attacking toast. probably a newbie-scum slip.

This missing on logic though. He is arguing that defending a player is a scum tell. Now, to have this hold true as a scumtell, he would have to agree with the read of toast-town, since as scum, its the better wagon to join, bringing evidence of bussing at a later time.

Now, that means that he is voting a player for defending a player that he thinks is town, which makes no sense at all. The vote here is made on very faulty logic and conflicting reads.

i'm not voting pimj for defending toast, but that pimj is too defensive on toast.

What does that exactly mean? Sounds like "he was defending a player too much". Have you really never seen town get a town read on another player?

Check the nothingness reads

lurker/neutral x7
town x3
scum x2

Whole lot of nothing said in this, over half the game he has no read on, but just finds creative ways to say it

that's not my fault that those players are not posting content. and with 12 players, there should be 4 players in neutral, so i just have 3 lurkers more than a average LoS.

You are saying you have absolutely zero read though? Even on gut, or one post, or the having your hackles on end a bit. Usually by around page 5-10 I can lean every player one way or another with a handful I already know I want dead or will refuse to vote.

[Furry]

Its not hypocritical, its admitting that I was wrong, and a joke is hardly even anti-town, let alone a scumtell.

i'm not saying that is a scumtell, but just trying to look pro-town. both scum and town will try to look pro-town.

Cop-out here. One thing I hate is when people say "Hey look at X that happened. It means nothing but lookly looky!". You are just throwing stuff out there for others to chase around and make conclusions of, if it hits scum, you can take credit, if you hit town, others were the ones that used it.

trying to look pro-town is not scummy, but trying to not look scummy is. i know that i may be a bit inconsistent, but that's my thought now.

What is the difference? As far as I know there is none. A pro-town move is pro-town, an anti-town move is anti-town. Town does scum things, scum do town things. What you are saying is just laying foundation for the justification for writing off town things.

unvote, vote boxman

. a little BW should be good now to put pressure on the lurker.

Why this lurker wagon? More then half the game are non-contributing ditzes to you.

but just a few points to note, "trying to look town" is not equal to "look town", the first is a neutral-to-scum tell imo, and the second is a town tell. some of the points are "guilty until proven innocent" and some points is only asking for elaboration rather than scum tells. so flave is just piling up "reasons" so as to build up a lynch, which is scummy.

Examples, examples, examples... this still makes zero sense to me and ive been playing this game for a lot longer then you have.

[Furry]

Vote manho

Done a few isos of each player, I dont see saber as scum at this point and am confident enough to put this vote down before I finish writing up everything. I will show the changes of manho regarding the final day soon, spoilers though, he goes from obv-FC lynch at end of yesterday, early today, and then suddenly is kinda interested in a saber lynch when I declare intention to vote him

[Empking]

Manho (1) Furry
Furry (0)
Sabrewolf (0)

2 to lynch.

[saberwolf]

Ah, so it is a valid vote. I had to be absolutely sure.

vote:manho

[Empking]

Manho (2) Furry, Sabrewolf
Furry (0)
Saberwolf (0)

2 to lynch.

[Empking]

Furry looked around and finally took a breath. "Manho. I declare you to be scum."

Sabrewolf smiled. "He isn't."

A shot was fired.

Manho a Townie was Lynched.

Furry spoke "You, you're a bad guy?"

"Bad guy? Me? I'm the hero of the Town!" Saberwolf fired another shot at Furry. "I just like killing."

Furry a Townie was Endgamed.

Saberwolf a Serial Killer won

[Empking]

Pyro and Deathnote - Scum Team 1
Santos and Rising - Scum Team 2
Saberwolf - SK (Who wins scorched earth).
Everyone else is a townie.

[saberwolf]

Pyro and Deathnote - Scum Team 1
Santos and Rising - Scum Team 2
Saberwolf - SK (Who wins scorched earth).
Everyone else is a townie.

Ok I'm going hypothetical of course, but there is ways for it just to be one SK:

Mafia Team one: Pyro, DeathNote
Mafia Team two: Rising, Santos
SK: Furry [just using your name]

Dead:

3. Devestator - Townie
8.Michelsabreheart

Pimj

- Townie - Killed Night 1

Killed by team 1

12. Pyromaniac

Sudai

Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by team 2

1. Rising

Jackinthebox

- Mafia - Killed Night 1

killed by SK

11. Donkeyz12212 - Vanilla Townie - Lynched Day 2
2. Santos - Mafia Goon - Killed night 2

killed by SK

6. Flava Flave

Toast

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 1

7. Bogre

Boxman

- Vanilla Town - Killed night 2

killed by team 2

13. DeathNote

Chaco

RobotPirateninja

- Mafia Goon - Killed night 3

Killed by SK

5. Xofelf

RealityFan

- Vanilla Townie - Killed night 3

Killed by team 1

That wasn't so hard.

put this right out there in the open, and nobody even paid attention to it really, lol

Mod: how accurate is this? Pretty sure the only place I could be wrong is day 2's results.

[Empking]

Its correct.

[Furry]

saber played a good game, but I think the mod refusing to distinguish who is in what scum faction is bastard modding to an extent

[saberwolf]

Still can't figure out your line of logic furry, you made it real easy to show you up and appear pro-town by disproving everything you say. You were wrong about the setup, you were wrong about the alternative setup, and wrong about me and manho.

[Furry]

Still can't figure out your line of logic furry, you made it real easy to show you up and appear pro-town by disproving everything you say. You were wrong about the setup, you were wrong about the alternative setup, and wrong about me and manho.

There was no distinction between scum so I assumed it was one big group to start with. Still a little bitter about not making that distinction that should always be made. Kill style I can live with, but not being faction specific bugs me.

Also given how bad anti-town shredded eachother, its proof that mafia were underpowered. A 8-2-2 is basically balanced, adding in a SK takes a whole lot of scum win chance away without making it a goon-GF pairing. While admittedly odd, 6-3-3-1 might be better balanced with likely a 45-20-20-15 win chance. This was something like 55-15-15-15 I think. I would of prefered to draw SK then mafia in this game. That should never happen.

I was wrong about the final lynch though. manho going from obviously planning to vote me to suddenly showing interest in voting you when I started throwing around ideas just sealed it for me. That shift made perfect sense from SK.

[saberwolf]

well tbh I thought SK had the worst chances of winning...

scum only crossed killed once btw, I NKed the rest. In this game the scum were real easy to spot.

If we had better scum, they would have stood a better chance.

Also, I think it is very safe to assume that when it's a game of 13 players and the first night was 3 NKs, that there IS NOT one giant group of mafia, otherwise the game would only last 2 days if town failed to hit scum. It's just common sense.

I was kind of worried about a vig possibility myself. Far_Cry was hinting at something I thought because he started mentioning the possibility of bus drivers, which made me think maybe he targetted me for a NK and noticed it failed. I knew better than to fakeclaim though, I just stuck to VT.