All right, time to ramble on how this godforsaken setup came into existence. In truth, it stemmed from a few musings about Large Normals, but mostly I think it came from my affinity for reflexive roles and my desire to use a reflexive-type Cop. And oh, the irony that that was the first Night Kill.
Anyway, in camp last summer I was sitting in the camp zoo, in the little indoor cabin/house/whatever (a smallish but well-managed and bold little zoo it was; I was one of five keepers of the place) and scrawed out a setup idea. I was rather fond of it and at first glance it seemed both semi-balanced an rather subversive. I forgot about it, but a friend gave it to me after I'd left it lying around the zoo and I kept it. It had the multiple targeting roles which were needed to make a Reflexive Cop useful in the first place (mostly protective roles), it had the multiple kills per Night needed to make that both workable and interesting, and it had the subversion of those kills coming from a Double-Kill Serial Killer and a Vig, with a Largish Mafia without a kill.
Some refining was needed, with the help of Mirth and SpyreX, and it happened. That's when the Mafia One-Shot Vig was added, as a balancing factor in case the SK was caught early. A Tracker was added (I'll see if I can look in my old PMs to find out what prompted that or whether it was there in the first place and why), and I took out a second Jailkeeper before I sent it out for review. And that was mostly it, give or take edits I can't remember (oh yes, and all Roleblocks were made to pnly block the first action performed by the player in question).
Or so I thought. The Town managed to lynch its CLAIMED VIGILANTE, definitely a move I didn't anticipate (and I'm shocked as heck that Tubby's playerslot made it all the way to the end of the game after that). That was one kill missing. Then the SK chose
not to kill at all
and the Mafia team, feeling threatened or such, after looking like they'd fall into the trap of RBing the Cop (totally fatal, and the reason I considered the RB to be a detriment rather than a real bonus to the team when I put it in) used their kill on him then. I really thought they'd save it . . .
And Day 2 didn't go that much better, though you managed not to lynch a claimed powerrole. Luckily the SK started to kill, and targeted two scumbags . . . one of whom was protected. Okay, it wasn't going totally down the tubes. But I don't think DN-now-Tate was under any suspicion at the time, and the longer he lived the more dangerous he'd become.
Day 3 the scumteam started to slip, especially, as I recall, thanks to Vi. This was pretty epic play; Vi was correctly guessing a good chunk of the scumteam. Another lynch of scum and it was looking all grand until two of the precious few remaining powerroles were both killed before they even really affected anything.
But scumhunting was still going pretty well, with Rofl falling to a rallying town and followed by the death of Vi (finally, though she really wasn't an immediate danger to scum) and Rayfrost.
And this is where, if I'm correct, Malp claimed Doc and stuff happened. Namely, Imaginality asked me a question about his role:
imaginality wrote:Hi Plum,
Another couple of role-related questions:
1. If I protect someone who is targeted for a kill, and I am in turn protected by a doc, then am I correct in thinking I won't die?
2. If two people try to kill my target, does the target die?
3. If two people try to kill the doc's target, does the target die?
Also, I second the deadline extension request.
Thanks,
imaginality
My response was as follows:
Plum wrote:1. No. Actually this was something I hadn't explicitly gone over, but wording implies that your spontaneous triggered death is not the sort of death a Doctor can prevent. I'm pretty sure that this was my intention. Sorry both for the answer and for the fact that some part of that decision process got made right now as opposed to earlier.
2. Yes. You do too.
3. Yes.
- Plum
I admitted and admit now that the Bodyguard Role PM was flawed as explained in (1.) above and that it didn't specify that the Bodyguard could only protect against one kill, as was noted in the other protective Role PMs and was my intention. As you can see, I was quite clear to Imaginality what the parameters of his role were and he was clear on it.
However . . . stuff happened. As you saw, Imaginality's plan was not effective, and, in fact, was based on role parameters different than the ones I explained to Imaginality. Sajin mentioned this point in particular to me when we discussed constructive criticism of my Modding in this game (which he offered multiple times and we gratefully accepted at every opportunity. I welcome stuff like that and it's always a pleasure to Mod for players active and interested in the game). To clarify,
this
is the source of the trouble:
Plum wrote:imaginality wrote:I am considering lying about the fact I'd be killed if doc is on me and scum target my target (to allow us to create a chain of malpascp -> me -> Dry-fit). I want to check with you if that's an acceptable tactic before I do that though.
I wouldn't say "Plum said I won't be killed if scum target Dry-fit and mal protects me," I'd just simply say, "I won't be killed if scum target Dry-fit and mal protects me" and hoping everyone (and scum in particular) just believe it. Obviously, if someone specifically asks you whether I'd be protected I know you'd have to tell them the truth.
(I might not do it anyhow... if scum call my bluff and target Dry-fit, it gets mal mislynched tomorrow if he is doc so it's kinda risky. Just mulling it over, and wanted to check if it is acceptable.)
You can lie about this sort of stuff. If people ask me, of course, I'd have to speak truthfully, but there's no reason for me to prevent you from choosing this course.
As you can see, Imaginality's fears came to pass pretty badly, with both remaining Town PRs dying at the hands of the doomed plan . . . and Malp the Doc-claiming scumbag wasn't even lynched for the trouble! Moral of the story is that taking risks can end up hurting you, and that lying as Town can be bad in ways other than ending up lynched.
And then Alvinz was lynched. He didn't know that the only ones on his wagon were scumbags. Until he self-hammered (something I will not choose to punish in this case. If you have an argument for punishing this, or CSL's selfhammer, I'm all ears).
Both of the SK's kills were on dramonic that night, bringing it down to 2:2:1. How could Town possibly make it now?
Well, a combination of things. First, the scum realized, through comparison with their own actions the Night that Imaginality and Dry-fir died, that DN/Tate had to be lying about his role and thus be the Double-Kill SK, and prosecuted their main threat accordingly; resulting in his death (which is another reason I didn't Modkill Tate immediately; and in the end his death meant his loss either way).
Now we went into a very interesting situation. 2:2, but because of the Mafia's lack of kill and the wording and intent of their win-condition ("You win when only members of the Mafia are alive or nothing can prevent the same") they didn't win then. In theory, if the Townrealized what was going down and continuously forced a no-Lynch, the Mafia would be prevented, fair and square, from being the only players left alive, as they had no means to kill.
After the first no-Lynch and No Kill, I did consult with SpyreX (with whom I also consulted on Mod-punishment decisions and other things; I owe him many thanks and you can all salute him, too) on when a draw would be reached due to no-Lynch + No Kill cycles (Happily Ever After ending). And amazingly (sort of), the Town stood
very
firm in the face of something they thought was a single-player threat. Nerves of steel and extremely competent play on the parts of Sajin and Tajo really sealed the win (or at least lack of loss) for the Town and definitely earned it. In my book.
I myself didn't realize that the rules were such that even a mislynch in three-player LYLO meant a draw, not a Mafia win, but that was what was indicated. Was that fair? I think so. The Mafia started out with 6 players out of 20 and two protective roles, plus a Roleblocker and a one-shot Vig (the Godfather, who couldn't target anyone, which was the only way to be investigated by the Reflexive Cop, was a total red herring).
In conclusion, WTH. That was what this setup did to you and that was what you did to this setup did to me.
