Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[Amished]

I'm taking up a new playstyle in all games I sign up for; you might just approve of it.

Like Phillip Morris approves of anti-smoking campaigns?

[RichardGHP]

I have no idea who Phillip Morris is, so I can't comment.

[The Fonz]

Was there a dead QT?
__________________________

I faked the report because I didn't get to request one that night and I figured it made sense, from a logical standpoint, for a godfather to have the ability to kill as well as the murderers. I suppose I was hoping it would go unnoticed. Please don't berate me too heavily for it. Mistakes, learning from them, moving on and so on.

But that's just it- you made an obvious lie, that didn't make sense (it wasn't logical for the godfather to be able to kill, and also, it would have required you to be protected, which NO-ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would have done). And for no real benefit, too. Believe it or not Richard, a lot of people look for individuals whose actions make absolutely no sense as town as primary scum candidates.

As I noted in the dead QT, it was funny how basically every replacement immediately honed in on Richard and Vasude. The obvious lesson from this game: wagoning isn't a scumtell, lurking definitely is.

[RichardGHP]

Link to the dead QT?

[The Fonz]

http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/7u5F5pGhE7N35

Only me and Shanba really posted at all.

[The Fonz]

Oh, and sharing my big post from immediately after I died:

Hatesagi, Korts may have been a cop, but the rest of us aren't. Thanks for blowing most of the remaining suspense from the game.

Further proof, mind, that posting JUST to avoid prods IS scummy... something YThill said in the Dead QT for Mendo- lurking town will lurk badly enough to get prodded. Players who are constantly near the prod threshold but don't get prodded are usually scum. Although, of course, ksun lurked badly enough to get prodded, too.

Yos is being overly harsh on Amished. His tell is actually good, and makes sense, I just didn't think it was infallible (people who readthrough before getting their role might also make a comment like that). PE came across as much more genuine in his suspicion of mipe than every other player on the wagon, as I said when I was alive- he looked like he believed in it, everyone else looked a scummy opportunist.

The one thing I really picked up on with my overnight re-read, and would have pushed today if I were alive, is that, going back over day one, Quag voting with Korts really deserved a lot more attention than it got at the time. Voting with Korts, with no reason given for actually suspecting Richard, only a justification that he hadn't noticed ksun (OK... read him now, then!) was the most obviously counterwagon-looking vote made... well, all game, pretty much.

If there's a fifth scum, and there probably is, I still think it's Scot... his defence of Quag as 'just a lazy player' stands out. Depending on numbers of scum, the whole 'counterwagon to scum' towntell kinda loses its power when you've already lynched a LOAD of scum and there aren't enough left to push a wagon in any significant number.

I really don't think, given day one and the 'He was an SK' bit, that dahill is scum. I'd definitely have said the same as Anon if I were alive... in fact, I'd agree with pretty much everything he's said until he went off the deep end with the whole 'Scot is scum for asking me to explain my case.' Scot may well be scum; not because of that, though.

If there's a fifth scum, and it's not Scot, I'd then look at Yos, the vacant IAUN slot (surely GOT to be Anon's target tonight) and maybe... I dunno, inHim?

This is a funny game, because pretty much every single replacement who comes in notices Vasude and Richard's wagoning, and immediately thinks they're scum. It kinda makes it weird to do any wagon analysis when the second anyone makes a remotely plausible sounding case, those two will jump on it.

[Shanba]

Fonz: funny you should say that. Do you remember my day 1 voting analysis thing? I picked out ksun, inhim and ricky in red. Hah, and then I went after ricky. Inhim was the worst wagonner of the lot, he just sometimes chose to wagon on scum.

There was too much town power. I was damn sure there would be an even night vig out there; I was going to use that when I came under some pressure (I figured that would happen eventually after my late switch day 1.)

[Amished]

That's what you get for thinking, Shanba. You die. >_>

[The Fonz]

Fonz: funny you should say that. Do you remember my day 1 voting analysis thing? I picked out ksun, inhim and ricky in red. Hah, and then I went after ricky. Inhim was the worst wagonner of the lot, he just sometimes chose to wagon on scum.

Well, so did Richard and Vasude. That's part of why I didn't really think Richard was scum (though, I have to admit, Yos was AWFULLY close to convincing me to switch at the death on day one- your point that Richard looked like he was making out that whoever was the biggest wagon at the time was the one he sincerely believed was the scummiest, was a good one) and I went away from suspecting Vasude (that and the 'Well duh, I don't have a night action' which was so noobtown it was incredible). The fail of Cove's wagoning analysis, apart from y'know him being scum, was he gave scumpoints for wagoning town, and completely ignored wagons on scum. If a player wagons a lot, but is indiscriminate between town and scum, it tends to mean they're just a wagony player. Obv, if a player jumps from town wagon to town wagon but conspicuously avoids scumwagons, you've got something there.

I think this game points up the importance of contrasting scumhunting styles too; I was right about Don, ksun, Zora (yeah, I didn't vote him, largely because of the V/LA: I was still the first one to suggest that a Zora wagon was a good idea) and Scot, but completely wrong on Cove and InHim, was able to resist (just) the siren call of the Richard wagon, but found Vasude incredibly scummy, at least for the first two days. Yos was right on Cove, but wrong on ksun, Zora, and Richard. Amished was right on InHim and Cove, but wrong on Dahill, Scot, and Mr.Chaos. Anon had Scot and Don, but missed on InHim, etc.

As for power roles, a scum odd night tracker might have been useful. That said, again, the two scum doctors had something they obviously could claim, probably buying one more mislynch, and conspicuously failed to do so. Another facet of my thought that Cove was town was that I 100% did not expect a third scum, given the opportunity to fakeclaim, and having seen two team-mates go down without doing so, not to take the opportunity to fakeclaim himself. Even if it was just to out the even night cop. Failure to fakeclaim facing lynch just KILLS scumteams.

[Yosarian2]

Yos is being overly harsh on Amished. His tell is actually good, and makes sense, I just didn't think it was infallible

Oh, for the record; I didn't actually have a problem with Amished's tell, or with his play. The attacks I made on it day 4 were completly tactical. Note I didn't attack his tell at all until after we lynched the scum; day 4, I was trying to pick a fight with an obvious townie to make sure I didn't get nightkilled that night (I wasn't actally convinced the scum couldn't kill on even nights at that point), but to do it in such a way as to make sure that neither me or him would get lynched over it.

[Amished]

Yos is being overly harsh on Amished. His tell is actually good, and makes sense, I just didn't think it was infallible

Oh, for the record; I didn't actually have a problem with Amished's tell, or with his play. The attacks I made on it day 4 were completly tactical. Note I didn't attack his tell at all until after we lynched the scum; day 4, I was trying to pick a fight with an obvious townie to make sure I didn't get nightkilled that night (I wasn't actally convinced the scum couldn't kill on even nights at that point), but to do it in such a way as to make sure that neither me or him would get lynched over it.

That makes me feel a lot better. I'm gonna have to add that into my repertoire...

[Amished]

Oh, and to Fonz? who commented about me not viewing inHim as town due to wagons: I've been burnt a couple times by bussing partners (Sotty7 especially comes to mind); so that doesn't really factor in. Another way of looking at it; I didn't see inHim post thoughts on other people and push for their lynch. To magically hop on and find scum to that degree without many thoughts of your own is a null tell. Evaluate the whole play, not just being on a wagon.

[Yosarian2]

That makes me feel a lot better. I'm gonna have to add that into my repertoire...

Heh. It's not something I'd try often, but considering that it was day 4 and I might FINALLY get a chance to do a cop investigation, I did NOT want to get nightkilled until I got to reveal it.

[Amished]

Yeah, you picked the right person; at times I can step back and realize if I'm talking to town or not; if you can tunnel on somebody like that it's a solid play to fly under the radar. A thought like that never would've come up for me.

[DeathNote]

Just wanted to get a public apology out here to anyone who was inconvenienced by my absence. (people in this game and Farside who had to take over) Luckily Farside is a good mod and took care of the game well enough. I was unable to have internet access and still have limited access due to my new summer job. I did not plan on getting it otherwise I would not have started the game. I am glad to see that most people at least got into the game and enjoyed it. Congratulations town and I will see you guys once school starts again. Thanks for understanding.

[The Fonz]

I didn't see inHim post thoughts on other people and push for their lynch. To magically hop on and find scum to that degree without many thoughts of your own is a null tell.

You weren't around at the same time as BabyJesus, were you? Hehe, I've seen Jack come under attack for exactly that (being right a lot without making cases etc) repeatedly as town. I think there's a folk prejudice against those who don't explain everything that makes them easy targets. That said, I do think you have a point about being on all of them- none of the actual town players was on EVERY scum wagon. Mind you, beware too townie...

Is the Scum QT available?

[DeathNote]

scum QT- http://quicktopic.com/44/H/mvTYfvcCeQBC

[StrangerCoug]

Finis.