130.Mirror Mafia - Game Over

[Bunnylover]

WHY YOU NO LYNCH HOHUM WHEN TS TOLD YOU HE FAKED THE INVESTIGATION AND THEIR WAS NO DEATH AT THE NIGHT NOR DID HOHUM SAY WHO HIS LAST INVESTIGATION WAS.
Good game

[mastin2]

1: It's my personal belief that more people should read Myk's article on scum behavior. It's buried somewhere in MD, but it's a dang-good article. There's one specific lesson in there which is perhaps some of the best, most golden advice you will ever receive in a game:

Scum bring exactly who they want into lylo.

The example given? Three-person lylo in a newbie. One's a VI. The other's a person who has heavily suspected said VI the whole game. Who's the scum? (Answer: neither of them.)

A situation almost directly, uh...

mirrored

(:P) by this game. (Only, with four instead of three due to the lack of NK, but it would have been three.)

Ctorj, VI from Day One. Ludi (presumably) alive, Nocmen killed. Ludi said the day before that Ctorj was scum. Nocmen (who did not give an opinion on the matter) was killed. Now, who's the scum?

Hint: it's not the VI.

2: Additionally. This one's a gem multiple veteran players can tell you:

When the "confirmed town" is still alive days later, despite there being no better night-kills, are they still confirmed town? (Answer: no; they're most likely scum, who can't NK themselves, the most obv-town player alive.) This applies this game, since hohum should have died, due to his cop claim. He didn't. Heck, with Pine being hounded by Hohum from days before, Hohum should've been killed BEFORE then, really. He wasn't. Despite having pushed hard against Black Scum, the Black Scum never killed him. Hohum replaced in on day three, and locked onto Pine, never letting go. Duplicity, Calc/Fuc (you had no way of knowing which was which), and Bunnylover were Black Scum kills, few/none (debatable) of which were better than Hohum, who was hounding Pine. Was he still obv-town?
(Answer: no. Though admittedly, he wasn't confirmed scum. He just shouldn't have been eliminated as a suspect so easily.)

3: Third point. This was Mirror Mafia. The mafia were perfectly mirrored. We had two masons. We had two hiders. (More on hiders in point # 4.) We had an SK, who created two neighbors at a time. We had two Godfathers, we had Two Trackers, we had Two Goons. We had...one claimed cop, with no second claimed cop.

...Now, what claim here is a little out of place?

(Answer: the single, un-mirrored Cop Claim.)

4: Fourth point. Roles. Hiders. WE HAD TWO HIDERS THIS GAME. Know what the Hiders were? The hiders WERE the cops this game. It's becoming commonly known, nowadays, that Hiders act as weak cops. Hide behind town, they're confirmed town. Hide behind scum, the hiders die. (Which unfortunately happened immediately for both of them. )

Hiders originally started out as some unique role, serving an interesting purpose: try not to die. But they evolved. Certain roles which were MEANT to be used one way eventually shift and become used in another--in this case, Hiders became weak Cops. It might not currently be common knowledge, nowadays, but it definitely should be (as an incident like this demonstrates). So, Hohum's role was redundant.

5: Meta. Hohum pushed Pine hard. Pine did not push Hohum at all. Pine as scum doesn't believe in bussing. The fact that hohum could push Pine, but Pine wasn't pushing back, was a dead giveaway. (Admittedly, you'd have to have played with Pine previously to know this.)


These are all things that were obvious well before we died, so it's not Graveyard Bias. (Believe it or not, we were not informed of who the scum were in the graveyard. That we figured out by ourselves.) However, that said, I can understand why not all of these are common knowledge. So, keep these in mind for future games, and use them well. Realize the mistake you made this game, so that you don't make it again.

In other words, this is a friendly critique meant to improve your play for the future, rather than a harsh criticism.

[Twistedspoon]

...

hohum gets no mercy from me. I need to fake cop investigations on him from now on

anyways /in for Mirror mafia sequel

[Twistedspoon]

still, I wouldn't have said the hiders were cops. They die behind godfathers don't they? It still makes godfathers moot

[mastin2]

Yeah. Hiders were made more powerful by that. Not less.
Godfathers were an INTENTIONAL Red Herring left by Tasky. (He said as much in the dead QT.) Hiders could overcome even Godfathers with their investigation--making them, in that regard, stronger than a normal cop. (In a way. )

[Ctorj49]

Told you guys I was town. You guys couldn't read me for nuthin.

Go Town anyways!

[Twistedspoon]

I told you guys Ctorj was town :p

[Twistedspoon]

but yeah, when Hohum admitted to faking his result on me, that was when you should have stopped trusting him

[hohum]

but yeah, when Hohum admitted to faking his result on me, that was when you should have stopped trusting him

This.

One of the first things I said in the black scum qt was we aren't going to win this game because of smart scum play but rather dumb town play. I think Ludi and Nocmen were sick of this game by day 7 and I exploited that. I really didn't think my gambit would work.

After I watched Spoon kill Pine I was afraid of a cross-kill. I weighed my options:

1) Let spoon live and help out, hope he kills town, kill him for the win.
2) Claim cop, get a lynch, back-track the flip.

Neither option was very appealing to me but I decided that if black scum can't win this game then no scum should, so I did what I had to do. To my surprise, it worked.

[Twistedspoon]

how did you figure out there was no cop?

also, do we get to see your QT?

[hohum]

Also someone needs to post the dead QT, the red scum QT and the Mason QT.

Here's the black scum QT. Also pine is a bleeding butthurt little dyke.

Redacted on request, Tasky

[hohum]

how did you figure out there was no cop?

It was pretty obvious 6 days in after so many VT flips that there were no town PRs.

[Twistedspoon]

cop could have still been there

redscum QT (highly embarassing)
dead QT

[hohum]

cop could have still been there

The odds were on my side. I really had resigned myself to loosing on Day 6. My only goal was to take you down with me.

[hohum]

EBWOP: Losing. Can't seem to spell today. Lose is what I didn't do this game and Loose is what your mother is.

[hohum]

1: It's my personal belief that more people should read Myk's article on scum behavior. It's buried somewhere in MD, but it's a dang-good article. There's one specific lesson in there which is perhaps some of the best, most golden advice you will ever receive in a game:

@Mastin - shorten the post by 50-75% it will remove the preachy feel and consequently feel less RAAAAAAAAAGE!

Secondary thought - remove most of the absolutes (example below)

1: People need to read Myk's article on scum behavior.

1: I think it would be helpful to read Myk's article on scum behavior.

They don't need to read the article - but it could help. Total difference in tone due to lack of directive nature of comment.

ITT we learn that Mastin plagiarizes his massive walls of text and passes them off as original thought.

[Tasky]

Hi guys, I'm back! I'm a little sorry the game ended when I was away, but meh.
I will comment on the course of the game later or so, right now I'm a bit tired.

PS: here is the mod QT, where you can find all the information you need on this game (except one: limited serial killer could only kill as soon as there was a dead mafioso).
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/UWEHL62CBhns

[hohum]

BTW after I replaced in I didn't bother reading the game. I just bussed to ultimate victory! The only time I had to read back was when I was trying to come up with a convincing claim.

[Tasky]

Oh, btw, if you liked my game, keep tuned on my Wiki for upcoming games. I am planning to run a Death Note Mafia in the near future and a Red Herring Mafia as soon as Time Travel Mafia is over (and I get over the mini theme queue).

[Ctorj49]

I told you guys Ctorj was town :p

If only they listened to you.

[Nocmen]

I rushed too much at the end. I looked at the no kill, thought "well maybe we NL", then realized that it would lead to another no-kill, failing to account for the fact that the cop could confirm everyone if that cycle happened, or the fact that THE COP WAS STILL ALIVE. Ugh, I'm a moron.

[mastin2]

ITT we learn that Mastin plagiarizes his massive walls of text and passes them off as original thought.

Read further back, Hohum. I made the wall, and it was all me. I read it, thought that--despite my efforts to make it polite--that it sounded rude. I asked for help. Thor gave it. The first statement was what it used to be. (Not exact words, but close.) The second is what Thor thought would sound better. So, I took his advise, and removed as many absolutes as I could. Starting with that one, but I edited the whole wall.

That piece of advice was always there, and Thor wasn't suggesting I add it. He was suggesting I edit it. This is something that you'd realize if you read the whole QT.

[hohum]

ITT we learn that Mastin plagiarizes his massive walls of text and passes them off as original thought.

Read further back, Hohum. I made the wall, and it was all me. I read it, thought that--despite my efforts to make it polite--that it sounded rude. I asked for help. Thor gave it. The first statement was what it used to be. (Not exact words, but close.) The second is what Thor thought would sound better. So, I took his advise, and removed as many absolutes as I could. Starting with that one, but I edited the whole wall.

That piece of advice was always there, and Thor wasn't suggesting I add it. He was suggesting I edit it. This is something that you'd realize if you read the whole QT.

You're still annoying

[Haylen]

Why can I only scumhunt in newbie games

[Thor665]

Lack of beard.