Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

chkflip · Post Post #1625 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:21 am

Triple post: don't care.

Why I am flailing? Wouldn't you flail as town's last good power role? Wouldn't you want the ability to say, "hey guys, I could hide behind X tonight to see if they're scum and clear a third person."?

Because I do. I've cleared CSL and GI. My strongest scum-reads are Zd and edmund. I will happily hide behind one of them and, we can confer and agree to it if you'd like.

Hell, we could even NL today so I could prove to you all that I'm the hider.

Or you can lynch the shitty hider. Your choice.

GreyICE · Post Post #1626 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:18 am

*sigh*

As much as I hate your guts right now I need to be sure you're scum.

Unvote

GreyICE · Post Post #1627 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:20 am

Also under no circumstances whatsoever can you hide tonight.

It's 4:1:1. There will be two kills tonight. If you're town, and you got shot behind another town player (or just died from hiding behind scum), it would take scum literally crosskilling for town to win.

As is, if we lynch town today, we're in deep, deep shit.

GreyICE · Post Post #1628 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:47 am

Geez, this really makes me question the game balance again.

Scum team - 5 players
Serial Killer - 1 Player (Even night)
Town - 15 players (1 vig)

Lets say the vig vigs fairly well, 2 town, 1 scum, dies N3 or is nullified (jailkept because of forced claim, something). That leaves us 12:4:1

The more I look at it, the more I hate it.

But would Neruz be enough of a derp to stick a hider in a game with three different killing roles?

Okay, lets say that we look at this again.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16167
16:4:1
Town had 3 power roles: Hider, Doctor, Roleblocker

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17770
16:5:1
Town had Cop, Cop, Doctor (yes two cops), 2Shot Vig (and PGO+Miller but those don't really count)

At 15:5:1 we'd get Watcher, Tracker, Bodyguard, Vig, and Votestealer?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=15121
13:4:1
Town gets: 2x1 shot vig, Full vig, tracker, hider, gunsmith

I want to say the hider claim is obvtown because I expected at least one power role to claim, but this is the shittiest use of a power role since godforsaken fucking oh my god.

I mean even WITH the claimed PR, town is heavily underpowered here. I' have bought an even night vig, but there's just no reason for town not to claim here.

The last game I saw with this distribution had two cops and a doctor. A watcher isn't a cop, a tracker DEFINITELY isn't a cop, and a bodyguard doesn't quite look like a doctor. And we're down a townie.

*sigh*

HEY CHK I CAN THINK OF ABOUT A BILLION WAYS TO BETTER USE A HIDER ROLE.

edmund.angles · Post Post #1629 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:50 am

I have to think more.
UNVOTE: mastin

@GI: Why didn't you steal a vote last night?

GreyICE · Post Post #1630 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:52 am

Okay fuck it. There's no way we can lynch Chk with this power role distribution. As I said, just look at planet of the hats. 5 scum, 1 serial killer, 16 town. If we line them up, we get

Comparison
- 1 townie in this game (downgrade)
1 cop exchanged for 1 watcher (downgrade)
1 cop exchanged for 1 tracker (huge downgrade)
1 doctor exchanged for 1 bodyguard (huge downgrade)
1 2shot vig exchanged for 1 full vig (upgrade)
1 miller exchanged for 1 VT (small upgrade)
1 PGO exchanged for 1 votestealer (upgrade)

On the whole, I'd say that we need that hider in order for the game to balance at all. It's still MUCH worse for the town than Planet, but fuck, game is unbalanced.

If he's scum, then our entire system is dead.

GreyICE · Post Post #1631 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:52 am

In post 1629, edmund.angles wrote:I have to think more.
UNVOTE: mastin

@GI: Why didn't you steal a vote last night?

Because I'm not a moron

GreyICE · Post Post #1632 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:57 am

Fuck it.

I wanna lynch scum today.

Vote: Edmund.Angles

mastin2 · Post Post #1633 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:24 pm

Alright. So assuming chk and CSL are town, that really makes things simple, no?

Six alive. GreyICE is confirmed town. CSL is obvious-town, confirmed-town if chk is truthful about his claim. chk's claim sucks, but GreyICE makes a good argument about balance. (It might be worth looking into Neruz's first modded game, see what he had there.) That leaves three suspects, no?

Myself, Edmund, and Zdenek.
For the position of Serial Killer and Mafia.
So, from each of our three perspectives, the other two are confirmed scum, correct? Well...

Edmund wrote:I have to think more.
UNVOTE: mastin

Guess who just unvoted?

The conclusion I reached was a rather simple one, through easy deductive reasoning. That the lynch pool had shrunk to three names, myself among them.
Edmund should've realized this, too. And kept his vote on me.

The fact that he unvoted means he just admitted to being scum of some kind.

UNVOTE: chkflip, VOTE: Edmund.angles.

mastin2 · Post Post #1634 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:32 pm

So, doing the math.
Five alive going into night, with either the final scum or the SK dead via Edmund's huge scumslip.

Chk can afford to hide. He announces his hide target--it must be either me or Zdenek.

If chkflip dies and the remaining scum kills someone else, three will be left alive and we know that he hid behind scum. If he hides behind me and I am shot, then two deaths during the night = 3 alive, and Zdenek just shot the only person not confirmed town.

Either way, guaranteed win. Awesome.

GreyICE · Post Post #1635 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:38 pm

True.

Lets make things easier.

Scum, the SK has killed two of you and generally is playing with an even night kill. That means he's probably alternating night bulletproof.

We'll hand the game to him in Kingmaker.

CSL · Post Post #1636 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:20 pm

Vote: edmund

chkflip · Post Post #1637 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:29 pm

We'll talk about this postgame for sure, Grey. I've got a lot of respect for you and I'm sorry I flipped out.

I'll hide behind mastin2.

VOTE: edmund.angles

GreyICE · Post Post #1638 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:41 pm

only if this is a scumflip, remember.

Townflip, and you can't hide period. We can't lose 2-3 town tonight.

GreyICE · Post Post #1639 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:48 pm

Meh, my vote on you was genuine annoyance, rather than scumminess.

That being said, Mastin has sheeped my Vezok vote, my vote on you, and my edmund vote with new and novel reasons each time.

I'm not sure what this is a tell of, but if you're dead tomorrow, he's dead as a doornail.

chkflip · Post Post #1640 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:50 pm

Oh okay, I follow now. Thanks.

Neruz · Post Post #1641 (ISO) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:24 pm

edmund.angles (

4

) -

GreyICE, mastin2, CSL, chkflip

mastin2 ( 1 ) -

Zdenek

With 6 Alive it is 4 to lynch.

The collective hive-mind of the town has decided!

edmund.angles

is uncerimoniously picked up and hurled down a handy nearby well, because that's what you use wells for right? Throwing people down them, preferably while shouting something suitably overdramatic?

Oh, wait, that was the drinking water? Well... shit...

edmund.angles (Townie) has been lynched!

It is now Night 6

Deadline in (expired on 2011-09-29 00:22:34)

Neruz · Post Post #1642 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Suddenly,

GreyICE

explodes!

GreyICE (Town Votestealer)

has died!

With 4 Alive it is 3 to lynch.

Deadline in (expired on 2011-10-13 00:00:00)

Day 7 Begins!

mastin2 · Post Post #1643 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:42 pm

Two scum, we've already lost; what the heck, might as well do what we want. (I worked it out last night, and realized that no matter what, if we have both an SK and a Scum Player, town couldn't win unless one of them cross-killed last night.) And as I said in the QT, the order of play in this game regardless of their actual alignments was GreyICE > CSL > chkflip > Zdenek. And if it doesn't matter WHO we vote and it's game over anyway, I'll take the chance to leave a final "Screw You" to Zdenek.

One scum, and we know it can't be chkflip or CSL. Therefore, it objectively has to be either myself or Zdenek.

And subjectively, I obviously know that it's not me.

Tl;dr?

There's no situation in where I don't do this.

VOTE: Zdenek.

chkflip · Post Post #1644 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:40 pm

Well, since I didn't hide last night (by order of mein fuhrer [the admittedly better hider than I] who passed T_T), I'd like to hear what Zdenek has to say before laying a vote down. I think it would be a really risky gambit for the last mafia member to no-kill last night so I'm of the opinion that we only have the SK left to deal with. Unless you think Zdenek (or possibly mastin2 for all I know) thought it would leave more room for reasonable doubt? I really doubt that, though... unless both scums shot the same person?

CSL, what do you think?

Zdenek · Post Post #1645 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Vote Mastin

Look at the BS he's posting all game, then imagine that it is anyone else. That person would have been strung up long ago.

Zdenek · Post Post #1646 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Vote Mastin

mastin2 · Post Post #1647 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:54 pm

Yup. Zdenek is scum.

If he were town, he would've realized there was one situation.
One.

Where both he and I could be town, without there being two scum:

If chkflip was scum, faking hider. CSL's cleared no matter what, of course (unless you go for the whole "CSL and chkflip are both scum, of different kinds" theory, in which case, it's still game over, scum win no matter what I do), but chkflip is only "cleared" by game balance and his play fits very well for an SK.

I thought of that scenario FIRST. I concluded it was extremely doubtful at best, due to the whole game balance thing, but still, it was my first thought. To look at my scumread of Zdenek and think if he was scum as I thought. If Zdenek was town, it would have been his as well. He'd have looked for any scenario in which I wasn't scum, and at least considered it, trying to make me consider a situation where he wasn't scum. Especially since I laid down a vote on him, first. Especially since I said there was no situation in which Zdenek wouldn't be my vote.

Instead, he flat-out decided to 1V1 me, exactly as I thought scum would.

He fell into the trap.

Confirm VOTE: Zdenek.

mastin2 · Post Post #1648 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:57 pm

In post 1645, Zdenek wrote:
Vote Mastin

Look at the BS he's posting all game, then imagine that it is anyone else. That person would have been strung up long ago.

You can also look at this. He's basically calling for a lynch on me...not because he thinks I'm scum...

...But essentially on policy. A mylo-Policy-Lynch.

...Yeah......

chkflip · Post Post #1649 (ISO) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:02 pm

I like this. Trap seems legit and un-forced. Fits your meta, too. Totally comfortable with a Zd lynch. I still want to hear from CSL since he's our other confirmed townie, but I'll leave it up to him to hammer Zd or bring forth a mastin2 case since I really don't see mastinscum at all.

EDIT:

IKR? I actually thought something similar.

Zdenek, do you have an actual case on mastin2?

VOTE: Zdenek

@MOD:

Y U NO PROD CSL?

I did send CSL a PM, give him some time to respond to it, jeez.