New York 146 Zach's Insane Mafia World (OVER)

[Zachrulez]

@Mod - Can you fix my quote tags in 834, please.

I swear one day I'm going to figure out how to do them properly

Preview is your friend.

Also, you have to put quotations (" ") around the name of what you want to quote. You missed that a couple of times.

[Tammy]

Thanks! I keep forgetting that you can't edit here once you submit.

[Tammy]

This post doesn't serve much of a purpose, but I'm just going to mark this for DV:

This is from Day One - page 13 of the cached files:

Scumreads (from strong to weak):

JasonT1981
Havingfitz I've decided that claiming I didn't make sense/was being hypocritical when I was actually making sense is scummy.
IamInnocent
DarthYoshi Not much more than a feeling right now, but: Why isn't fitz on your suspect list?
MagnaofIllusion Despite the obvious effort put into his posting, I feel that everything he says is carefully constructed and I don't sense much freedom in his expression.

He nailed at least three of the mafia in his scum reads on day one. That's pretty cool.

Neither one of you would like to confess yet, would you?

[Tammy]

This is from page 22 of the cache. I'm marking it because it's part of where I said that NS seemed more engaged in the game before crash. I don't know what to make of it yet.

RC: What did you expect? I'm curious.

Amrun: in the one game I've played with redFF, he was town and more or less lurked through. It may be a non-tell from so little meta, but I have other reasons, too. Like his constant pressuring of Palisade. Scummy.

redFF; I'm posting. Shut up.

DarthYoshi wrote:
@NS: Games please for your meta-reasons on redff. I'd like reactions from you on the following:
-The growth of the MOI wagon
-Jason's claim
-Palisade's most recent list of reads


DY: the game that I played with redFF is Oxymoron Mafia. 93 pages of amazing goodness, have fun. (And it's not so much lurking, as he didn't exactly lurk; it's more of an apathetic mindset that I saw there that I don't see here.)

I have personal bias against MoI so any wagon on him is a good one. Otherwise, I haven't really paid much attention. But Snake's entry to that wagon is bad.

On jason's claim: far too early in the game to be claiming, but from what I know of jason, he can be derpy like that. Null at this point.

Palisade's most recent list of reads: Thank you for pointing this out to me. redFF isn't on the list AT ALL, and MoI, apparently a popular wagon, is town. I don't like the list, nor do I like the lack of promised reasons.

With that...

unvote

Vote: Palisade

Although this screws with my redFF read, but for now I'm happy with voting Palisade. Also, Pali+redFF or Pali+Snake as scum is probably not highly likely.

[Tammy]

I know CES asked earlier, but do either of you know who Baseline's alt is? The playstyle is

really

familiar. Frustrating though because he didn't give an MoI read when he read everyone else. Nailed three of the scumteam though. Oh wait, he got back from his run and movie. You both are weak town reads for him. *Frustrating.* His reads are usually pretty good, which would be helpful if you weren't both the same exact read for him.

/end rambling

[Tammy]

Never mind about Baseline's alt. Just got to the point where he's not outing it. Should probably not comment until I read the rest of the page. Besides, I figured it out anyway.

[Nobody Special]

I'm not really clear on whether I need to actually dodge a prod, but I'm posting anyway.

[Tammy]

Ok so, you know what's frustrating?

MoI's actions and interactions look really suspicious and it's so easy to see the scum motivation behind so many of the things he's done this game.

but But BUT

NS has so little interaction and actions, like seriously my post 853 is the most involved post I've found of his all game, and then he started getting involved again at end game. The lack of effort is, in itself, inherently suspicious.

*Irritating*

--------------------------------

Just putting some notes here for reference, as I'm going out of town for a little while and don't feel like taking them with me.

IaI - Day one had a strong town read of NS, pg. 15 defends MoI to Yoshi, pg.28 says he's not interested in talking out the best player, MoI, day one even though he agrees his performance has been lackluster.

Fitz - Pg. 28 gives soft-suspicion of MoI and supports his wagon but says members on it are less townish than Palisade's and questions MoI scum read a bit, has a null read of NS; day two, page 34, more soft suspicion of MoI as scum.

Muffin interaction with MoI on pg 13 and 34.

MoI day 2 solidifies HF scum read but doesn't push it because Yoshi is a stronger scum read. (I'm formulating a question about this, I think.)

[Nobody Special]

The lack of effort is, in itself, inherently suspicious.

*Irritating*

--------------------------------

I have that effect on people, sadly. I'm not trying to justify it, but I get lulls in worktime and I join a bunch of games, then work picks up and I get rushed and I lurk a lot.

On the rare occasions I

do

roll scum, I'm (98% of the time) much more involved, like by orders of magnitude.

Ask anyone onsite, they'll agree. MoI has a history of screaming and yelling at me to increase my activity.

My wiki's way out of date, but if you want a recent(ish) scumgame of mine to read, I'll find my latest. (Although, to be honest, I get third party even more than I get scum. Go figure.)

[Nobody Special]

So, just to be helpful, I went through my games, from now backwards to.....

My last scum game was West Wing Mafia -- except not really, because I was Mafia Traitor (I knew them, they didn't know me) AND there's only the first 8 pages left after the crash.

I had to go ALL the way back to summer of 2011 to find Open 323, which I replaced into as scum, and won (17 pages).

Then we go back to June 2011, and we find that in Newbie 1113 I was scum and got lynched Day One (15 pages).

And that's as far back as I can see (that's when I started keeping my Role PMs in a separate folder).

[Nobody Special]

Fun Fact: My Role PM folder contains 80 PMs (although probably 10 or so are MishMash games); out of all those, I've only drawn scum three times.

[Zachrulez]

MagnaofIllusion has been prodded.

[Nobody Special]

I forgot one: RedPanda's Vengeful just ended; I lost as Mafia Godfather. (I don't put a lot of stock in Vengefuls: they're very short and often display a distorted playstyle. YMMV.)

Can I just mention that MoI seems to not be posting a whole bunch? And might I mention that he had been fairly active during the weekdays prior to this particular Game Day?

Just, you know, food for thought.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Been prodded.

Work has been busy and Team Mafia is taking most of my focus. Sorry.

NS - want to suggest I'm particularly avoiding the thread. Have at it. Would be the most relevant reason you possibly have given all game as to why I am scum (even thought it is, of course, wrong).

[Tammy]

Thanks NS. While meta can help you understand someone's play style, I'm really hesitant to use it to make determinations on how people act. Once someone knows their meta, most of the time it's pretty easy to replicate, especially in the case of someone being a lot more engaged as scum but not as engaged at town.

I did look at your games as someone, Kamrun maybe, had linked a couple of MoI's games in the archives and I skimmed those. Kinda interesting point, in the game in which MoI was in a 3 person LyLo as scum, he was the first to vote.

The games were helpful to a point, as in they gave me a better feel for you as a player that I was missing due to you not being very much involved.

What would be most helpful though, is not that you're town because you play differently as scum, but why are you town in this game? Why is MoI scum? If you're town, then you

know

MoI is scum. How can you show that he is?

[Zachrulez]

This is your official mod endorsed 1 week warning.

Deadline just under a week from now.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4:30pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. And specifically this weekend with a charity golf Scramble on Saturday to help with and Mother’s Day on Sunday my posting is likely to be restricted to late nights if at all.

Yes, I’ve been derelict. I’ll be working (as much as I can, anyway) over the weekend to respond to Tammy’s avalanche of posts and make a concise case on NS for scum.

I promise (and may you hang my if I don’t comply) to have it fully up by this time Tuesday at the latest!

[Nobody Special]

So everyone who is not voting fitz and not fitz himself has posted and NOT hammered.

So the following are the ONLY situations that make sense (aside from an asshole team stringing things out) -

1. Fitz is scum, or
2. Both CES and I are scum together, or
3. We only have 1 scum left so today isn't LYLO.

Mull this over ...

You forgot one. You're scum with fitz and (surprise!) stringing things along. Note that MoI was the second of three votes to lynch fitz; I was the hammer.

Why, if fitz were my partner, would I ignore him all game and then suddenly hammer?


Also this:

Fascinating response that is completely useless -

Why don't you think fitz is scum? He's been on the wrong side of the vote-count for every important lynch this game (voted for Palisade, did not vote for Jason) and his play reads as scum-fitz to me.

I didn't say that I don't think fitz is scum -- I'm just not as apparently convinced as you are. It's your level of confidence that worries me.

Also, this can be read as fitz trying desperately to point away from his last buddy.

[Zachrulez]

Tammy has been prodded.

[Tammy]

Acknowledging my prod .

[Tammy]

Hey Magna, in case you're unaware, there are departure trains leaving every 15 minutes from Coney Island. Their first stop is New York. You should buy a ticket.

[Nobody Special]

Hmmm. I wonder why he's

specifically

avoiding this thread. Could it be that he can't really make a good case on me because I'm town?

Hmmmmm.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah yeah I've been prodded.

NS do you really think I would worry about making a case on you because you were 'so Town' if I was scum? Seriously that's such an absurd statment I find it funny. Especially given Harry Potter where I was able to counterclaim your RoleName and get you lynched easily when you true claimed.

Team Mafia is more important. Tuesday isn't over. Live with disappointment today.

[Tammy]

Yeah yeah I've been prodded.

NS do you really think I would worry about making a case on you because you were 'so Town' if I was scum? Seriously that's such an absurd statment I find it funny. Especially given Harry Potter where I was able to counterclaim your RoleName and get you lynched easily when you true claimed.

Team Mafia is more important. Tuesday isn't over. Live with disappointment today.

LOL Scumposting.

[Nobody Special]

Tuesday's

just about

over, innit?