NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1575 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:38 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1553, T S O wrote:He says he has reads - functionally (in practice) he doesn't.


functionally you have absolutely no reason for voting Aneninen,
well except for the one
you chose
and i discussed which you then described as
"It's not scummy? I just disagree with it. That was why I SAID that I didn't agree with anything Aneninen had said."

When pressed for posts that actually show Aneninen to be scum you come up empty.

In you post 3 Aneninen posts and ask Tier if they seem like natural progression of reads.
(I suppose you think that means that they are unnatural in way than implies scummyness but you dont actually functionally say that.)

I ask you to do just that, show its scummy. You dont. You summarise them inaccurately and still doesnt show he is scum.
I post describing how your post fails to show Aneninen is scummy at all, and you claim I am misrepping you.

again you do not state what mnisrepping or where.

Your arguments are vacuous.

@TSO

Show me where i misrepped you.
Explain how you think his reads are not a natural progression.
Explain how the wagon on the guy you want lynched is based on stuff you read in the thread.
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Post Post #1576 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:54 am

Post by Garmr »

Wait we only have 3 days left till dead fuck that went by fast.

A reminder that the deadline is essentially suspended until I find replacements.

-Aegor
Last edited by Aegor on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1577 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:28 am

Post by Aneninen »

I'll post tomorrow. Seriously.
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Post Post #1578 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:29 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1576, Garmr wrote:Wait we only have 3 days left till dead fuck that went by fast.

A reminder that the deadline is essentially suspended until I find replacements.


Wow. Cool.

Now I can insist on those Scripten townreads that I despaired of getting.
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Post Post #1579 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:35 am

Post by The Fonz »

Grrr. PV is right about one thing - It's time to stop engaging with him. That last post addressed to me manages the impressive feat of pushing all my buttons, and completely dodging the concerns I have by denying he did something that the thread plainly shows him doing.
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Post Post #1580 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:38 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1579, The Fonz wrote:Grrr. PV is right about one thing - It's time to stop engaging with him. That last post addressed to me manages the impressive feat of pushing all my buttons, and completely dodging the concerns I have by denying he did something that the thread plainly shows him doing.


You started it by replacing in and voting the largest wagon based on a page 6 post. C'mon, now....

And we can talk about my answer pushing all of your buttons. Let's talk about it. :wink:
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Post Post #1581 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:43 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1561, Garmr wrote:No face palm on you your just filling this thread with junk and it's not Smurfing productive and It's starting to tick me off.

1. I have actually not discussed the Pere case much with Pere - I *have* discussed it at length with people other than Pere.
2. I have addressed many other things in and amongst doing so.
3. I am keeping it in the conversation because I haven't managed L-1 yet. Oh, wow, look at the days left and the wagon composition - it's almost like we should get an L-1 somewhere.

What do you think I need to comment on that I haven't? Or is this just an empty complaint of "boo-hoo, people are talking and it makes things hard for me!"
Because I have to tell you, I am not particularly sold by that as an issue.
You know what the issue is?
That people aren't pushing a wagon to L-1.
That's why the game is going long and stupid.
Not that two people are talking somewhat whilst one half of the equation you're complaining about is amongst the game's serial lursacks.


In post 1562, PeregrineV wrote:1. Players can "agree" with you without reading or understanding your "case". You know lazy town does it as well as scum. You've not questioned anyone about their understanding of your "case" except me, and I've said I don't see it. Flubber giving it actual attention means he's probably seeing the same issues with it.
2. Get real, it's not a counterwagon and you know it.
3. Your certainty that I'm scum- is it a "safe assumption", stronger than that, or weaker than that? :cool:
4. I asked you to explain it like I was 6 (),
Spoiler: Your answer
In post 1226, Thor665 wrote:viewtopic.php?p=6270527#p6270527

5. Sure you did.
Spoiler: Post 1366
In post 1366, PeregrineV wrote:I could continue to argue with you, but I've seen this before. Plus, you've managed to evolve your case/vote from to to whatever this is supposed to be. But, like the Scripten vote, overreaction to speculation is just not a town thing.

6. And haven't really explained why in the context of
7. Read #5 Evolving Cases. Then,
Spoiler: Read this
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:
19. Thor665-
early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball ( and ) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun. :]

In post 1107, Thor665 wrote:It is inherently unscummy because there is no suggested inside knowledge in the comment and also the comment flowed naturally from the conversation I was having at the time suggesting no strange focus on multiball either - ergo, it was a natural comment to make and also showed no inside knowledge.

1. I have convinced multiple players and discussed the case at length with them. I can think of at least two that I changed their minds about it, insomuch as they opposed it and then supported it.
2. Okay. So, then, with, in yoour opinion, multiple scum teams, how come I haven't even gotten close to L-1 on you yet if there isn't resistance?
3. This is a deflective jab with no purpose to it dodging how you were scum flailing in your last #3.
4. Okay...and that *is* explained like to a 6 year old. It was step by step. If you don't understand it it's up to *you* to explain where it lost you.
5. Quoting my case from before your multiball call out and then after it is hardly proof of me changing my story, and you know it and it is scummy you're trying to sell it like that.
6. There is no context there to explain.
7. Ah, so now we're complaining that, as I saw new information, I updated my reads? That is different than saying my "story changed". Very different. Like, not even in the same galaxy as a tell.


Edited for formatting upon request.

-Aegor
Last edited by Aegor on Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1582 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1460, The Fonz wrote:PV: NO! You still haven't answered the question of why you assumed insider knowledge rather than error.

"Most games this big have multiscum. So it's safe to assume it, therefore we can't rule out two players both being scum even if their interactions appear unlikely from teammates."

Give me literally ANY possible Thor thought process that makes even close to as much sense as the above and is compatible with your allegations.


I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am kinda leaning towards the latter, and want to lynch TSO, because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .
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Post Post #1583 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:10 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 1581, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1561, Garmr wrote:No face palm on you your just filling this thread with junk and it's not Smurfing productive and It's starting to tick me off.

1. I have actually not discussed the Pere case much with Pere - I *have* discussed it at length with people other than Pere.
2. I have addressed many other things in and amongst doing so.
3. I am keeping it in the conversation because I haven't managed L-1 yet. Oh, wow, look at the days left and the wagon composition - it's almost like we should get an L-1 somewhere.

What do you think I need to comment on that I haven't? Or is this just an empty complaint of "boo-hoo, people are talking and it makes things hard for me!"
Because I have to tell you, I am not particularly sold by that as an issue.
You know what the issue is?
That people aren't pushing a wagon to L-1.
That's why the game is going long and stupid.
Not that two people are talking somewhat whilst one half of the equation you're complaining about is amongst the game's serial lursacks.
.

Ok I acknowledge you have being doing other things with other people but the focus on pere is stifling so more a complaint as your arguments haven't been the strongest.

To be fair I'm town reading pere and your sitting on the fine line between town and null and I'd rather lynch my scum reads. Is there any other person you find is scummy because there's 3 types of people at the moment people who think the pere vote is weaksauce (I'm in this camp),Pere is scummy and lurkers/people that have ignored it.

What other wagons would you like to be seen pushed to L-1 Because at the moment the top 2 wagons aren't ones I like and people aren't jumping on the annienen wagon.
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Post Post #1584 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:28 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 1582, AxleGreaser wrote:

I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am kinda leaning towards the latter, and want to lynch TSO, because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .


You have the similar thoughts on the pere/thor subject as me, But I don't see tso as scum and you seem to feel similar about Annienen. So how about we start a new wagon. Maybe a muffin wagon since after Isoing him and seeing the way he act around pere while buddying up to thor is scummish to me or a nerocain,scriptian and davesaz wagons are pretty good to or if you have changed your mind about Annienen there's plenty of room there.
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Post Post #1585 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1584, Garmr wrote:But I don't see tso as scum


So you can explain how it is plausible he has his read on Aneninen?

because I also have similar problem with your read on Aneninen, but find TSO scummier, so I started with him.
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Post Post #1586 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:04 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find
TSO backing off on his wagon
to be alignment-indicative


been meaning to get back to this, please show me what you see as
TSO backing off his wagon
.

Not sure i agree he was ever on his own wagon, but I want what you saw as him backing off his wagon.
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Post Post #1587 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:11 pm

Post by goodmorning »

In post 1532, T S O wrote:
In post 1526, goodmorning wrote:This game is the first time I encountered Csareo.

Did you think he was town?

When?

In post 1536, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1521, goodmorning wrote:@Axle: Who do you find scummy other than TSO?

are you looking explicitly for my secondary reads, or are you looking for evidence I am actually playing the game.

Explicitly the former.

@Mod: Thor's post broke the page a little, probably a spoiler tag overlapping a quote tag, pls fix.


reeeeeeaaddssssss

reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaddssssssssssss

rreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaddssssssssssssssssss

rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaadddsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss are cominggg

Right after I finish the last 20 pages or so.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
LA during normal working and sleeping hours EST

Get to know a very pleasant AM.
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Post Post #1588 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:18 pm

Post by Scripten »

In post 1586, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find
TSO backing off on his wagon
to be alignment-indicative


been meaning to get back to this, please show me what you see as
TSO backing off his wagon
.

Not sure i agree he was ever on his own wagon, but I want what you saw as him backing off his wagon.


What? I never said TSO was on his own wagon. I'm not sure why you would think I'd say that? I said he'd backed off of Aneninen's wagon in () and I wanted to know what you thought of that.

Why are you asking me this when it seemed like you understood when you answered in ()?
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Post Post #1589 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:53 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 1585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1584, Garmr wrote:But I don't see tso as scum


So you can explain how it is plausible he has his read on Aneninen?

because I also have similar problem with your read on Aneninen, but find TSO scummier, so I started with him.


Bang this just hit me.

I have explained my reasons even through it started with a misunderstanding. What I find wrong is how your attacking the Aneninen, wagon and trying to disassemble it with out once saying Aneninen, is town. Sure you said here are some of annienens town games but not even once in the slightest have you said Aneninen to say what you think his alignment is Hell. When you presented Aneninen, town game to me you didn't even say this is why Aneninen, is town/scum because of this game and that one match up(they don't). Your like here's some Aneninen games I can't be bothered pointing out the points to show why they can be referenced with this game.You been passively defending annienen as well.

I think you did this subconsciously as he is either your scum buddy or your trying to buddy him. Your also reluctant to share your reads other than tso and you been playing a mediator role the whole game when it doesn't involve a scum read like you want to get in on the action yet not get to heavily involved.

come on people read through his iso Aneninen is mentioned over 100 times but not his alinement.

UNVOTE: Aneninen
VOTE: Axlegreaser
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Post Post #1590 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:31 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1583, Garmr wrote:Ok I acknowledge you have being doing other things with other people but the focus on pere is stifling so more a complaint as your arguments haven't been the strongest.

Strongest compared to what?
I certainly think they're at least as strong as any other case presented in this game. I personally think they are stronger, natch, but I'd be fascinated to see what you would call stronger.

I also do have other people I'd be willing to lynch.
However, as noted, my prime lynch option is the top wagon. I'm not sure why everyone keeps expecting me to compromise at this stage.
That's not how it works.
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Post Post #1591 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:52 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 1590, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1583, Garmr wrote:Ok I acknowledge you have being doing other things with other people but the focus on pere is stifling so more a complaint as your arguments haven't been the strongest.

Strongest compared to what?
I certainly think they're at least as strong as any other case presented in this game. I personally think they are stronger, natch, but I'd be fascinated to see what you would call stronger.

I also do have other people I'd be willing to lynch.
However, as noted, my prime lynch option is the top wagon. I'm not sure why everyone keeps expecting me to compromise at this stage.
That's not how it works.


Your opening reason to vote him was weak that has probably lessened the impact of your other cases even some are rational. I would call my point on axles hesitance to say Aneninen alignment,including the passive defense with the meta thing with out explaining what we should be looking at and the (lack of/resilience to express) reads a stronger case than peres.

Can I ask what you think of the people on the pere wagon other than yourself.
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Post Post #1592 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1591, Garmr wrote:Your opening reason to vote him was weak that has probably lessened the impact of your other cases even some are rational.

:neutral:

Oh big whoop - at the stage I voted him my reasoning was fine because he *was* skating through the thread, and it happened to expand into a quite functional case after he decided to whip out the nonsensical surface tell he did and then claim to stand by it as logical. If you can't segment your awareness of the case from the less and more serious aspects (a point, incidentally,t hat Pere is not only incapable of doing - but is trying to sell as skeevy on my part...because...I guess he's literally never seen that happen before?) is pretty 'meh' to me.

In post 1591, Garmr wrote: I would call my point on axles hesitance to say Aneninen alignment,including the passive defense with the meta thing with out explaining what we should be looking at and the (lack of/resilience to express) reads a stronger case than peres.

That literally just happened, and seems sadly in line with Axle's wishy wash talk that he has been doing all day on a wide number of subjects. I'll agree it's bad, I'll agree he looks worse for it, I don't see it as bigger than someone pushing a bad tell, and then dodging explaining it for thirty odd pages even when people other than me have asked him to justify the thought process.

In post 1591, Garmr wrote:Can I ask what you think of the people on the pere wagon other than yourself.

It's literally basically made of people I townread. Regardless of Pere's alignment I suppose I'll agree to the theoretical concept that there is a scum on there, because that does make sense. I'd probably tag Boonskies as the worst supported move, and maybe Scrip and Dave as the ones I personally have the least ability to wish to argue too strong int here defense of. But, no, I am pretty comfortable with the wagon as stands as it does not really contain people I would otherwise wish to lynch today.

What do you think of the wagon, and the reasons people have stated for supporting it?
While we're at it - what do you think of the wagon on me - a wagon I think is the definition of an awkward creation.
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Post Post #1593 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:33 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1588, Scripten wrote:
In post 1586, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find
TSO backing off on his wagon
to be alignment-indicative


been meaning to get back to this, please show me what you see as
TSO backing off his wagon
.

Not sure i agree he was ever on his own wagon, but I want what you saw as him backing off his wagon.


What? I never said TSO was on his own wagon. I'm not sure why you would think I'd say that? I said he'd backed off of Aneninen's wagon in () and I wanted to know what you thought of that.

Why are you asking me this when it seemed like you understood when you answered in ()?


1250 is a quote, in the text of the question that I colour coded the same i made a typo and left out "on"

Well I kind of did, or rather guessed, when I looked recently I did not find a post that is clear enough about him backing off.
Also as that *only* backs of an interpretation of a set of three posts that should not from TSO claimed his case was have changed his whole read.

As I said I found the thread weird, and not helped by the number of posts replying without quoting or explicitly referring to what has a point where.
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Post Post #1594 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1593, AxleGreaser wrote:Also as that *only* backs of an interpretation of a set of three posts that should not from TSO claimed his case was have changed his whole read.


previously TSO said
In post 1074, T S O wrote:Don't get me wrong, though, he's done plenty of scummy shit.


So as far as i know he has only backed off one particular scummy thing, and he claims there are plenty.

I smell BS.
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Post Post #1595 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:42 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1589, Garmr wrote:What I find wrong is how your attacking the Aneninen, wagon and trying to disassemble it with out once saying Aneninen, is town.


And what is wrong with that?

If Aneninen is scum then other scum may have decide to bus him. There is no requirement for me to believe Anenne is scum to have trouble with understanding the veracity of the cases against him.

wow what OMGUS.

All I am doing is flagging that I also want to examine your reasons.

and nope, I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games ,that I pointed out to you,
but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.
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Post Post #1596 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:48 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1589, Garmr wrote:I think you did this subconsciously as he is either your scum buddy or your trying to buddy him


This is bullshit. My interaction with you,
where I made sure I made simple post (no excuse not to read it)
here is the post.
In post 688, AxleGreaser wrote:@GARMR

A simple question.
have you read any of Aneninen's previous games?

While the earliest games are the oldest they do show best where his approach to play comes from. newbie 1513.


not sure everyone will notice but that is clearly a deliberate post.

it in no way defends Aneninen, but it does make sure ignorance is not a defence.

The last sentence is even ahelpful suggstion that the best way to come to an accurate read is to examine that old game, as it shows IMO most clearly where his play has evolved from.

That was about the towniest post I made in the whole game.
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Post Post #1597 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:49 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Hey PereV , you rated the threads reaction to your Scripten vote as fairly high.

The thread over here is registering 10.
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Post Post #1598 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:56 pm

Post by Scripten »

In post 1593, AxleGreaser wrote:
1250 is a quote, in the text of the question that I colour coded the same i made a typo and left out "on"

Well I kind of did, or rather guessed, when I looked recently I did not find a post that is clear enough about him backing off.
Also as that *only* backs of an interpretation of a set of three posts that should not from TSO claimed his case was have changed his whole read.

As I said I found the thread weird, and not helped by the number of posts replying without quoting or explicitly referring to what has a point where.


...

What?
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Post Post #1599 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:22 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1589, Garmr wrote:I have explained my reasons even through it started with a misunderstanding.


and yes the fact that you have reasons in the thread is the reason I started by trying to prose TSOs reasons out of him.

I don't know what will happen when I discuss your reasons with you, it may be that they appear to make sense to you.
I do know not all your previous reasons are current.
Some time ago, you said
"I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon."

as you subsequently unvoted boon, I believe you must no longer believe it was a failed chainsaw.

Also people dont 'disprove' cases they present you reasoning that you either accept or reject. Thor has for instance failed to provide you sufficient reasons to vote PereV, whom I believe you strongly town read.

So could you identify which posts hold your current reasoning that Aneninen is scum.
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