NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1950 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:17 am

Post by T S O »

The Aneninen shit is coming but jesus fuck I think I'm going to have to declare V/LA again because I'm snowed in with schoolwork.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1951 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1949, T S O wrote:Thor - because I feel my vote is more fruitful where it is.

I'm not particularly townreading Peregrine like I was and he could be scum, I guess, because I usually townread Peregrine when I ISO him in isolation and that really hasn't happened this game. Maybe that's indicative for Peregrine being scum. Maybe it's indicative of him having an off game. I don't know. At the moment I don't really care either because I don't have enough time for this game in general.

Your current vote is basically doing nothing - are you seriously telling me it's accomplishing something?
What is it doing that is fruitful?
Especially if you generally scum read Pere, as you seem to say you do?
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Post Post #1952 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:30 am

Post by T S O »

Pressuring a greater scumread, for one.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #1953 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

At this point, what further pressure do you think you're bringing on him?

If you want actual pressure beyond yourself you need a wagon - which means you should be doing what I'm doing.
Or, you could back my play and put pressure on Pere, a player you say you consider scummy.
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Post Post #1954 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:34 am

Post by Thor665 »

Axle is currently on L-10.
I bet that's just breaking him apart inside, right?
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Post Post #1955 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:36 am

Post by T S O »

Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV


If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1956 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:36 am

Post by T S O »

i'm out.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #1957 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

How evil of me to point out that your pressure...isn't?
The heck is that about? What's your beef with what I'm saying (rather politely at that)?
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Post Post #1958 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:51 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 1910, Garmr wrote:A example of town boon skies being conscious of his plays in a past game would of been nice.


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=58243
Later he replaced out.
Right now I don not think that his gameplay is the same (mostly because he replaced out) but his early gameplay was very similar.

In post 1914, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1909, Aneninen wrote:Can you define that concept for me?

He's barely interacting with anyone. He's just posting enough passive analysis to fly under the radar.


Hasn't he interacted with TSO for example? I don't think Davesaz is scum.
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Post Post #1959 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:59 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1929, Garmr wrote:1. nope not that i can remember

Does that concern you in an attempt to comment that his play here looks townish? You appear to have no frame of reference, yeah?

In post 1929, Garmr wrote:2A.Muffin-I can see him buddying script a bit and I don't know if anyone's used this as a scum tell but he seems to be leeching you. If a strong player is pushing a wagon just jump on and throw down a few points and don't provide anything to really push it. I think the closet thing to a push is saying come join the wagon and oh look at the history of events in the way I paint it (521)

2B.Scriptian-The town cred thing in a lesser extent and the jump onto the pere wagon in a bigger extent. It didn't feel natural to me.

OrNot2B.Davey- quotes gm says she feels towny and doesn't give a reason why those quotes feel towny. Plays a devil adovocate like role in the thors and pere argument and then gives a meh reason to vote pere (667.

I originally disliked more players on the wagon but I been rethinking them.

I will point out, firstly, your point on Dave is weak considering Dave's playstyle. Seriously, go do research and come back and talk to me on that one. Also, Dave in isolation is reading really townish to me right now, you're not getting any of that?

I also don't see it on Muffin unless he's super buddying me - because he did choose to go into that dustup with GM about me also, which, at least suggests he's willing to take a lead stance on a case if he's so inclined even if he's scum in this game.

I mildly see the point on Script - but, meh, I townread him myself, and even if you don't 1-2 questionable votes hardly a bad wagon makes at this wagon size.

In post 1929, Garmr wrote:3 they were similar at the start (not the same) but they steered into different directions. I don't agree with some of his reads/reactions but I can see how he got there with the way he thinks.

This is frustratingly vague.
I would actually say in the early game he was doing almost anything *but* offering reads and thoughts.
I would also say that, since moving away from me, he hasn't done anything either.
In fact - besies his press on me, i would dare say his ISO barely has anything one could call scumhunting in it.
And I have people calling him town or agreeing with his thoughts.

Do you think I'm crazy to have those beliefs? Like, specifically, that besides comments about me Pere has done nothing this game?

1. Not really

2. Your original vote on pere was weaksauce -_- annoyance out the way

dave-I misread the whole goodmorning thing as well which was a bigger factor as why I scum read him but you have to admit the way he handled you and pere was a bad jump onto it. After he does a lot of theory talk about if pere is scum that there must be scum in the neighborhoods goes in depth about it. That really isn't solid reasoning.

script-was my weaker reads of the three and the only one you agreed slightly intreasting.

muffin- I stick to my points on this and that dustop that involves "explain your read,Is that the best,there's a better vote if that's all,link some some shit" yep real riviting stuff from muffin.

3.
From my view point his got caught up with your wall. But the fact his recent post his brought up egg,muffin and scriptian so it's not all about you and I think his done a little. But the way you act around him got him caught up on you not sure if you realize you have that effect sometimes (remember you and slandaar in the game we were a scum team you didn't even mean for that wall to happen.)







Even through I think pere is town there is one post that worries me through is the sk talk. Originally he used it as way to argue against your multi scum thing which I was fine with but I saw this post.

In post 1705, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1647, AxleGreaser wrote:
@PereV
Hi.

It is important you read the words that I say in this post and respond to this post.
Do not try and explain your case/points against Thor to me, I read that already.

Your are a towny, you are trying to work the game out
(
or pretending to
)
(
ooo spooky colours
)

What is your current belief in how likely this game is to be multiball?
Why?


I don't think it's 2 scumteams.
I think there is an SK.


It became a way to debate your statistic into a surefire thing. I don't understand this transtion.
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Post Post #1960 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:00 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV


If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.
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Post Post #1961 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:20 am

Post by Aneninen »

So, some of my reads. These players are scummy according to my reads now (in the order of possibility, starting with the least scummy one):

PeregrineV – His early posts were scummy, I've written about that before. His later posts? Unsure. To tell the truth, I've been unable to follow that long interaction between him and Thor after a while.

TSO – I've already posted about that. Maybe his tunnelling (which seems to have been stopped) is much less an alignment tell than it is in a smaller game. His Day1 interaction with Csareo was scummy on the other hand. His sheeping vote for Peregrinev? It'll turn out later.

Izariael – There were no real case against Scripten. Long lurks, terrible vote on Thor.

Axel – I've posted about this too. I must add one thing. If he keeps attacking TSO because of his case against me,
why
has he started an interaction with Garmr about similar things? He seems to try to buddy me.

Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that? Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction? As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though). The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!! (By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

________

I'm willing to wagon any of the players above.

I'm unwilling to vote for the following players: Davesaz, Flubber, Goodmorning, Tiershift, Boonskiies, Thor, Scripten (for various reasons).
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Post Post #1962 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:24 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1919, Thor665 wrote:@Axle - oh, and as far as the compare contrast thing. If you're using weak examples (as I think you are) and aren't going to show all of them in one fell swoop..what do you think the endgame point of the exercise is? I'll still do it on TSO, but I want you to state that you have a goal and maybe even clue me in enough on the goal so I can obligate you to do it once you get the answer. I am too lazy to do busy work for the sake of busy work.


Good question. I am not sure. bad plan I know.
I really know that I now have trouble seeing, good stuff in TSOs filter.

I am town, I want to stop not seeing him being town, but only if he is.

So if I am on the wrong wagon convince me hes town?
(not half hearted fluffy,
oh look I am clever I twisted and creatively interpreted Axles towny read pattern and applied them to TSOs words so they might look towny if you dont actually think about it.

I am at a loss for why no one else thinks it even worthwhile voting TSO to get his reasons out of him.
Now he claims ooh I am/might going VLA (which happens to have serious irony for me)
Hey I can go VLA too, I had a death in the not quite immediate family.
but no I can bee here I have time, just not the fucks.
I kinda actually don't really give fuck. I am voting scum. I said why. go team Axle.
I usually have other rules I adhere to about how I play. I kinda actually don't really give fuck.
yeah thats a recent trend, probably since it happened.

Your Reason? You want L-1
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Post Post #1963 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:1. Not really

Well...that leaves that reasoning a dead end path of weak.

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:2. Your original vote on pere was weaksauce -_- annoyance out the way

This is also a pretty empty comment that does nothing and advances less.

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:dave-I misread the whole goodmorning thing as well which was a bigger factor as why I scum read him but you have to admit the way he handled you and pere was a bad jump onto it. After he does a lot of theory talk about if pere is scum that there must be scum in the neighborhoods goes in depth about it. That really isn't solid reasoning.

Again - do you exect more from Davetown? Because if you don't, all you're really managing to say here is 'scumhunting looks weak' well...does Dave scumhunt strongly in your experience?
Look at what he's saying and doing, the people he's talking to and what he's saying. He is coming across as very honest to me right now and your raised issue with him is, basically, sloppy wagon transition...which even i it is a scumtell is more of a poor play tell, and at that point you should be assessing him as a newer player anyway in which case the case becomes weaker unless you know him to be better than this.
Do you?

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:script-was my weaker reads of the three and the only one you agreed slightly intreasting.

Actually no it's not unless you take it somewhere.

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:muffin- I stick to my points on this and that dustop that involves "explain your read,Is that the best,there's a better vote if that's all,link some some shit" yep real riviting stuff from muffin.

Do you not think I showed him having willingness to do original attacks?
If I did - then why is him sheeping me proof of cowardly scum - which is your currently advanced case?

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:3.
From my view point his got caught up with your wall. But the fact his recent post his brought up egg,muffin and scriptian so it's not all about you and I think his done a little. But the way you act around him got him caught up on you not sure if you realize you have that effect sometimes (remember you and slandaar in the game we were a scum team you didn't even mean for that wall to happen.)

You're saying a lot of words here and I'm not really buying it.
Sure, I will agree that Pere (and myself) are prone to wall wars.
That said, *during* the wall wars I was able to still discuss other people and events, Pere was not.
Prior to the wall war I was able to discuss other people and events, and Pere said basically nothing.
After the wall war...well, heck, Pere has basically lurked out and cast an empty vote and you're even mentioning that as though he's somehow discussed Scripten - no, he hasn't. Why do you think he has?

I don't think any of this weakens my point that he appears to not be scumhunting.
Can you clarify why you think I'm wrong here?

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:It became a way to debate your statistic into a surefire thing. I don't understand this transtion.

I don't see how this matters one way or the other, myself.
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Post Post #1964 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:42 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1952, T S O wrote:Pressuring a greater scumread, for one.


by refusing to talk to me?
In post 1880, T S O wrote:I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting information no-one wants except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.

and why are you refusing to talk to me....
because i will do things that would be scummy if i did them.....
way to go with the pressure

and refusing to provide your reasons for voting aneninen?
In post 1880, T S O wrote:I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting
information no-one wants
except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.


So lets test the veracity of that.
In post 1882, Slandaar wrote:TSO can you actually post in one place why you think/thought Aneninen is scum please?

except you still wont?
In post 1835, T S O wrote:the case is coming, btw, surely but very slowly.

In post 1956, T S O wrote:i'm out.


information no one wants?

Even you? !


You were voting Aneninen, and you claim you dont want the reasons for voting him clearly stated in the thread?

I will vote you twice a day and once on Sundays for saying just that.
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Post Post #1965 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that?

I read nearly 2000 posts in 2 days what did you expect me to do? write a bunch of walls aswell? do you want players who are caught up and know whats going on or ones who write a wall take 5 hours to read 10 pages and never catch up?

I told you who needs to be lynched today; GM.
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction?

Yes? I read the recent couple pages while reading the rest? What is the issue with that?
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though).

That isn't my post.
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

It's good to know you are scum though. I call someone town so I am buddies with them? lol.
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Post Post #1966 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:44 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

VOTE: TSO
VOTE: TSO

I am a man of my word.
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Post Post #1967 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:46 am

Post by T S O »

just checked in - Axle, I'm super scared of your double vote btw.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #1968 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
You find him colorful in this game? Becase the only color he showed, in my opinion, was when I forced him to engage me. Other than that he has very much struck me as a sit back and do nothing player.

He has been colourful for Peregrine, yes.
In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
You're falling into his trap here.
It doesn't matter whether or not he believes games are or are not likely to be multiball.
The question is - would he find it *scummy* that I thought it was likely. (or, more specifically, a safe presumption)
Why did he think *that* was scummy.

It doesn't matter whether or not he thought it was or wasn't likely, it mattered that he called it scummy to think otherwise.

I find it believable that if you have a certain experience with games going a certain way you would think others with similar experience levels would think similarly, thus you not doing so when he thinks you would think similar to him appears scummy to him.

He did push it too much but I buy he believes it.
In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
Okay.
Why should he think this? (also, I think you should care - why don't you? We're talking about a read on pere here, I would think that aspect would matter, yeah?)

I explained it above better. I just don't really care about why he didn't attribute it to someone else, I mean if he says he skimmed and paid attention to Thor I would go OK sure so it really doesn't matter.
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Post Post #1969 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:07 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that?

I read nearly 2000 posts in 2 days what did you expect me to do? write a bunch of walls aswell? do you want players who are caught up and know whats going on or ones who write a wall take 5 hours to read 10 pages and never catch up?

"It wanted to be looked like a catchup but it failed the" kind of.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
I told you who needs to be lynched today; GM.

That's a brilliant idea. In another game, perhaps.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction?

Yes? I read the recent couple pages while reading the rest? What is the issue with that?

You could have asked questions. You did not.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though).

That isn't my post.

I meant . (Are you here, TSO? Here's something for you! It's impossible to type 60 instead of 54 by mistake so that
must have been a
scumslip. If you divide 1860 by 1854 you get 1,00367187909 if you miscalculate it and those numbes show the players who are planned to be Nightkilled, in alphabetical order.)

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?


I've highlighted them, see below. (As far as I know he didn't have a game with Csareo before. TSO had. Why don't you scumread him too?)
Also, the quotes you'd made proved nothing.

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:I think Thor and PV are both town.
Lets lynch someone else.

Vote: GoodMorning

GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right and she never seems to have much point to what she says.
:]
But seriously;
The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy.
She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because
it was easy
.
It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed.
You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.



In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

Derail? Isn't that word used for a scum-action? To derail a wagon of a scumbuddy?

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
It's good to know you are scum though.


Spoiler:
Image
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!


You are nervous. Very nervous. Scummy-nervous.

VOTE: Slandaar
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Post Post #1970 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

Yeah see if you understood my reasoning on GM you would realize half the terrible reasoning is hers...

Oh Dear.
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Post Post #1971 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1968, Slandaar wrote:I find it believable that if you have a certain experience with games going a certain way you would think others with similar experience levels would think similarly, thus you not doing so when he thinks you would think similar to him appears scummy to him.

But it didn't in that way.
He said it was scummy if there were two scum teams. But if there was one scum team it would not be scummy.
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Post Post #1972 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:17 am

Post by Muffin »

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:...

GM thinks rolefishing is scummy, now think about this response;
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:It's terribly transparent,
trying to lynch a PR.
trying to rolefish.
Your answer is too simple
- it doesn't take consequences into account.

GM is scum. She is thinking on different levels when it suits her.

The End.

Can you explain this a little more please? The struck-through text confuses me.
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Post Post #1973 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:21 am

Post by Muffin »

like is that paraphrasing you've inserted willy-nilly or what
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Post Post #1974 (ISO) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:35 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1971, Thor665 wrote:But it didn't in that way.
He said it was scummy if there were two scum teams. But if there was one scum team it would not be scummy.

They are not mutually exclusive. It still applies he expects you to think a certain way and because you didn't thinks you are scum who assumes multi-ball with inside knowledge but this doesn't apply when it isn't multi-ball...

I mean is it good reasoning? no, but do you think Peregrine with his experience makes this argument unless he believes it?
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