NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!


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Post Post #975 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:02 pm

Post by Io »

davesaz wrote:Garmr sheeped onto a wagon where none of the votes were well founded. It’s opportunistic.
Akarin's vote was unfounded? I don't see how this is unfounded. They explained their reason pretty clearly.
In post 512, Akarin wrote:
My reasoning on Davesaz:

Really thought I was going to get more flak from someone over that naked vote by the way.

post 111 kind of sets up a Lapsa read, gets some agreement from Io, then votes in post 136 based on another kind of minor post, saying it "deserves a push."

Then basically doesn't look too hard for scum in anyone else and more and more solid on Lapsa based on... what exactly?

In post 226 he says he's "looking for thought process" in Saudade but doesn't seem to have put any effort in looking at Lapsa's thought process.
In post 207, davesaz wrote:I have asserted that Lapsa is looking for excuses to sheep, and doing nothing proactive.
Like, sure, Lapsa is sheeping, but he's not sheeping every vote. And not much in the way of excuses either.
In post 231, davesaz wrote:Lapsa is scum. Why don't you see that? An answer would be appreciated.
In post 358, davesaz wrote:Not town == scum.
Show me town in Lapsa and I'll consider going somewhere else.
In post 360, davesaz wrote:Not solving -> scum. It's really an easy thing, don't see why we don't just lynch it.
And suddenly he's absolutely certain.

Sometimes he talks like he's looking at why bad play might be scum motivated or town motivated like in post 222. (He does come around to a scumread on CT based on a secret scumtell rather than anything he can point to so he can sort of agree with it while letting other people do the pushing.)

But with Lapsa, Dave is convinced he's scum based on sheeping. It feels like a lot of these are him doing what I assume must be his usual playstyle, but he's throwing that attitude out when it comes to Lapsa for some reason. Lapsa is "easy" indeed and Davesaz really wants to push that hard for some reason.

It's like he has one default approach for talking about the game, and a different approach when it comes to the wagon he's pushing here.

You know who isn't solving the game? Dave.
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Post Post #976 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:05 pm

Post by Hugo Stiglitz »

In post 972, Completly Trustworthy wrote:I liked Tictac's take on me in , it was different from other reads on me and seemed to be relatively well-reasoned. I still want to know their opinions on other players though, they still haven't given the readslist I asked for.

I didn't like , at the time Hugo probably thought it put Dave at L-1 due to what Nos said. It seemed odd that they voted for him at such an important moment after not talking about him for the entire game simply because they wanted day 2 to come. It seemed kind of lazy and expressed an apathetic attitude which you don't often see from townies interested in scumhunting.

Also, Dave, why is Garmr in your lynchpool, is it because he pushed you?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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and i can scumhunt better based on a flip with associations of voting
these longass day 1s kill me
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Post Post #977 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

VOTE: davesaz
I think his disregard of Akarin’s case is scummy
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Post Post #978 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

L-1 btw
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Post Post #979 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by Io »

So in you commented that you couldn't see dave!scum and Lapsa!scum in response to .
If you think dave is scum for dismissing what is your current thoughts on Lapsa then?
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Post Post #980 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

Vig
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Post Post #981 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 979, Io wrote:So in you commented that you couldn't see dave!scum and Lapsa!scum in response to .
If you think dave is scum for dismissing what is your current thoughts on Lapsa then?
Town. I’ve felt they’ve improved somewhat in the “not lying out of your ass” department, but he’s still chafing personality wise, but that’s just a personal gripe
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Post Post #982 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 515, davesaz wrote: is incorrect but good. I can give Akarin a mild town read off that.

Sheeping is not thie issue. Doing nothing to advance the game is the issue. The post I happened to be responding to was sheeping, so I referred to it. You got me for making a lazy post that ddidn't explain every reason for my vote. Good job.

The reason you thought my other posts were advancing the game was because they are advancing it. Feel free to ask any questions you might have about where I am on people.
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Post Post #983 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Post by davesaz »

This is not a picture of someone dismissing a post.
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Post Post #984 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Then why call it unfounded later?
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Post Post #985 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by davesaz »

Because it is unfounded. Incorrect. Wrong.
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Post Post #986 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Io »

Unfounded doesn't mean incorrect or wrong just that it is not based on anything.
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Post Post #987 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:01 pm

Post by Io »

Alright, so here's what I'm going to do.

UNVOTE:

If anyone wishes to counter claim with Vigilante then do so pretty soon.
From what I can tell there is never any Large games with more than 1 Vigilante and it'd be a bit on the risky side for an SK or Mafia to claim Vigilante without knowing if one was in the game.
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Post Post #988 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

There is a modifier. I'm not going to say what it is for obvious reasons, but a CC is possible.
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Post Post #989 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

Let's lynch someone who actually isn't trying to solve the game.
Even considering voting for someone who is actually trying to solve is beyond stupidity and the reason town loses so many games, but my one man crusade to fix site meta has been falling on deaf ears for a couple years.
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Post Post #990 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:06 pm

Post by Io »

I mean even still I haven't seen a Large game with 2 Vigilantes even if they had a modifier.
Baring JOATs of course, but that's a JOAT and not a Vigilante.
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Post Post #991 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:07 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I’m not inviting until Dave backs up him claim
Because Io is right that unfounded doesn’t mean incorrect
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Post Post #992 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:09 pm

Post by Completly Trustworthy »

I don't understand why you wouldn't unvote, a vigilante can prove themselves easily. There's no reason to try and lynch him d1.
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Post Post #993 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:13 pm

Post by Io »

Wouldn't Vigilante need to live to day 2 to back up they are a Vigilante?

Also I did find a few games, but it was just an Even/Odd pair of Vigs and another with just a 1-shot vig alongside the regular Vig.
But it is probably safe to assume if there is 2 vig claims given this is a 15 player game one is probably lying.

And if he is actually risking claiming Vigilante then it should reflect in the night kill count as if he was Mafia he'd need to claim his factional kill.
Only a Serial Killer could really fake a Vigilante, but there's still only a matter of time before they are realized to be a Serial Killer likely by the game not ending with the death of the last mafioso.
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Post Post #994 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by davesaz »

Don't get ahead of yourself with assumptions. Knowing what I am scum could just as easily RB me if they have one, to get a mislynch from lack of an extra kill.
Assumptions piss me off almost as much as stringing people up for being inquisitive.
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Post Post #995 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Dave I want you to tell me what you make of unfounded not meaning incorrect
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Post Post #996 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:24 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 864, davesaz wrote: Don't know why we're avoiding having any serious wagons. Less than 6 days left to get some votes in motion for analysis later.
Explain why scum!me doesn't just let town circle jerk themselves into a no-lynch? At this point there were something like 4 wagons with 2 votes if memory serves. Unless that state was a little earlier...

Pedit:
Gamma I don't give a shit what your definition is. Keep it up and you're my leading candidate for the extra bullet. This kind of bullshit has no place in mafia and it's another reason that towns lose.
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Post Post #997 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:25 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

W/e
UNVOTE:
I just wanted you to acknowledge that in some way. We will have words postgame however.
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Post Post #998 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:28 pm

Post by Io »

No, yeah I'm aware Roleblocker is always a possibility, but Watcher and Tracker are also still a possibility. Ultimately if Mafia has a Roleblocker they have to target you in order to frame you.
A Watcher or Tracker or even a Voyeur would basically out the Mafia's plan if they tried roleblocking you. Not only that if there is a Cop of any kind they could check you which would also put a stop to a Mafia Roleblocker's plans.
Basically, there's a lot of stuff that could very easily stop a Mafia Roleblocker or catch them in the action to the point that the Mafia, if they had one, would need to risk their Roleblocker just for a chance of a mislynch on you.

Honestly, word semantics don't mean anything. It was pretty clear what he was meaning to say even if he used the wrong word to convey it.
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Post Post #999 (ISO) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:35 pm

Post by davesaz »

I should make it clear that my previous was in no way intended to be personal.
I've just seen too many games slip away because people were so intent on the warts on the frog on a leaf on the tree that they failed to notice the forest was rotting.
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