Turn of Camn ~FIN~
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Mathdino Survivor
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Confirm
Is this finally the setup in which policy lynches are optimal play
Yassss-
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Mathdino Survivor
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yeah this is problematicIn post 27, Aristophanes wrote:Which guard am I? I need to know where to vote XD
i'm old guard by 2018 standards but the Older Old Guard keeps tunneling my towngame so i think i'm defecting to new guard-
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who the fuck has pine even met out of this playerlist after dat hiatus-
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VOTE: mastina-
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is this seriousIn post 50, Mulch wrote:NOTE:
I talked to alisae and, unbeknownst to me, at least before we talked, alisae ASSIGNED the town people’s roles. For example, I’m a role that fits me really well. This was really easy to miss in the rules, so realize that roles are NOT random, and that we can townfirm people (at least some) by how well their role fits their personality
how does miller fit NSG's personality at all
i refuse to believe pine drafted her and then told her to claim miller lol-
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i'm literally eating dinner fuck off-
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I have shit to sayIn post 65, Mulch wrote:
You had 24 hours to plan a strategy post when this game is FULL of pre game shit you can doIn post 57, Mathdino wrote:i'm literally eating dinner fuck off
You are one of the most mechanics driven players I’ve seen across all 3 sites
I find it hard to believe you twiddled your thumbs
I’m not going to tunnel you on #pregamereads, though
The game started while I was heating up my dinner lol-
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Mathdino Survivor
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yo i appreciate itIn post 65, Mulch wrote:
You had 24 hours to plan a strategy post when this game is FULL of pre game shit you can doIn post 57, Mathdino wrote:i'm literally eating dinner fuck off
You are one of the most mechanics driven players I’ve seen across all 3 sites
I find it hard to believe you twiddled your thumbs
I’m not going to tunnel you on #pregamereads, though
i basically never plan strategy posts though until the game actually starts
see polygamist where i accidentally proposed a bad strategy before breaking on page 2
my main concerns are
1. Ellibereth is a pretty obvious Pine pick. Thinking objectively optimal strategy is policy lynch Ellibereth D1 and sheep all his reads afterward.
2. but also fuck mastina for self-voting, i'm not reading those walls
not to mention mastina school of scumplay = pine school of scumplay
3. VTs should act like they're masons and masons should act like they're VTs. I feel like you guys know this by now.
4. NSG is probably 99% innocent child based on that claim alone.
so
mastina --> Ellibereth -- > whoever townElli tells us to lynch
probably takes out 2 scum
or 1 scum and sets the game on lock
Edit:does anyone have 100% record of reading chara
because that would actually remove the need to lynch elli if they're town-
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this means independently of anything that's actually happened so far btwIn post 88, Mathdino wrote:objectively optimal strategy
mulch is probably town so far just for application of mathdino meta knowledge
not familiar with the meta on like anyone else-
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...In post 89, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Also, how many of these fucking "pick a player to be X alignment" games do I need to play and then FLIP TOWN IN before people realize that no one is ever going to pick me to be scum in these games. Humans are naturally risk averse.
Additionally, I think Alisae is the kind of person who would draft me to keep me from being drafted as scum.
can we talk about this in about a week-
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how many games with each alignmentIn post 92, MariaR wrote:
ooo ooo I do!In post 88, Mathdino wrote:does anyone have 100% record of reading chara
because that would actually remove the need to lynch elli if they're town-
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i actually had my own convo with alisae where she literally said that if creature were in this game, and she got to draft scum, she would draft creatureIn post 99, Centipede Syndrome wrote:
or you could wait for us to be nightkilled instead of wasting our day one lynch on policy and then sheeping reads we's only have a day to make.In post 88, Mathdino wrote:Edit: does anyone have 100% record of reading chara
because that would actually remove the need to lynch elli if they're town
i mean. this is an objectively terrible plan and i'm surprised at you. if we're town (we are, obviously) Elli is tearing this game wide open and scum are going to kill us at their first opporunity.
~Chara
not to roll the town with mad scumskills
but because it robs town of
1. creature's reads
2. creature's deterministic end of D1 flip
both of these things apply to the ellibereth/chara hydra except 10 times as much on point 1 and about half as much on point 2
like there's a point in skill level as town (assuming average or above scumplay) where you literally become the optimal lynch to everyone but yourself. i reached that point with my IRL group and RC basically reached that point for me
i will defer to others if you're just obvtown in a way that couldn't be coached by elli tho
also i read all the walls and it is actually sickening for me to say
but i think we should basically sheep mastina and mulch-
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are you ever going to (re)learn charismaIn post 120, mastina wrote:
Which alignment do you suppose that makes him, then?In post 99, Centipede Syndrome wrote:i mean. this is an objectively terrible plan and i'm surprised at you.
you literally wrote the article on it that rocketed my townplay and then threw it all out-
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my plan is actually to lynch mastina first and then youIn post 125, Centipede Syndrome wrote:Fire: not at all!
or maybe a little.
like. if Math's plan is to follow town Elli's reads after he's lynched, why the hell does he propose lynching usfirst? we can get more scum if he waits, and the far more likely scenario is us just being nightkilled so the day 1 lynch can actually be useful.
reread my post-
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you have meta on bbmolla?In post 145, northsidegal wrote:Like, that doesn't seem real. If you're speaking without hyperbole i just don't think it's reasonable to have a scumread of that strength on mastina right now, and you don't strike me as the type of player who makes 100% or near 100% confidence scumreads like that this early with this little to go off of.
i don't even have meta on bbmolla and i literally wrote his title lol-
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this does not a scumread makeIn post 144, mastina wrote:Ginngie is doing something this game she absolutely should not be doing if she is town, and doing something which is ABSOLUTELY exactly how she would be going about things as scum.
There's a minor caveat, in that she is doing something which she would in fact do as town. So if you think this is soulread levels of confidence, it's not. But she is in fact a quite serious scumread.
this is actually a fantastic argument that ginngie doing that is NAI
i can't believe i didn't overhaul the slayer's gambit wiki page before this game started
everyone's reactions are NAI because they'd just vote the gambiter as town anyway-
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pretty sure soulreading is when you know the player so incredibly well that you can instantly read themIn post 149, northsidegal wrote:
no, just speaking from "soulreading" as the MUers say.In post 146, Mathdino wrote:
you have meta on bbmolla?In post 145, northsidegal wrote:Like, that doesn't seem real. If you're speaking without hyperbole i just don't think it's reasonable to have a scumread of that strength on mastina right now, and you don't strike me as the type of player who makes 100% or near 100% confidence scumreads like that this early with this little to go off of.
i don't even have meta on bbmolla and i literally wrote his title lol
if it didn't tick you off when i brag about it i would basically call "Mathdino reading NSG" as the only example of my ability to soulread
probably add redflavor to that
regardless i think you're more psychologically profiling
in which case fine i guess i'm gonna be doing some sweet cold meta on bbmolla-
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In post 105, mastina wrote:
VOTE: MathdinoIn post 88, Mathdino wrote:mastina --> Ellibereth -- > whoever townElli tells us to lynch
probably takes out 2 scum
or 1 scum and sets the game on lock
Edit:does anyone have 100% record of reading chara
because that would actually remove the need to lynch elli if they're town
lol i did not see these postsIn post 106, northsidegal wrote:i agree that mathdino wanting to lynch ellibereth day one is terrible
hey NSG what do you think of always lynching radiantcowbells D1 then-
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which as per alisae conversation is exactly why they're EXTREMELY likely to be scumIn post 162, Ginngie wrote:
RC death tunnels people because ego and fucks up a lotIn post 159, Mathdino wrote:In post 105, mastina wrote:
VOTE: MathdinoIn post 88, Mathdino wrote:mastina --> Ellibereth -- > whoever townElli tells us to lynch
probably takes out 2 scum
or 1 scum and sets the game on lock
Edit:does anyone have 100% record of reading chara
because that would actually remove the need to lynch elli if they're town
lol i did not see these postsIn post 106, northsidegal wrote:i agree that mathdino wanting to lynch ellibereth day one is terrible
hey NSG what do you think of always lynching radiantcowbells D1 then
Elli is a paragon, not a Don Corleon
that said i do accept that they're probably dead tonight (and supposedly obvtown) if they're town anyway
plan functions if chara is not obvtown and if elli does not die tonight
mastina has graciously given us a day/night to make that happen-
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i'm so disappointed with the lynch requirements in larges
i patiently await reckoner's reaction to this flummery
Edit: i also would recruit elli first, it's practically throwing not to-
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how exactly does the guilty child mechanic actually affect the game literally at all
i have never seen a set of skilled players lynch based on things that confscum say after they're confscum-
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reading larges is dangerous for my health
still surprised that people did that
can't we just play pretending that guilty child is on our ignore list
this setup should be townsided with combination of
1. choose your side meta (props to LLD for reminding everyone of this beautiful thing)
2. innocent child is supposed to be the counterbalance to guilty child but it's extremely +town EV while pine is 0 EV
3. NSG is basically an innocent child as well, along with others depending on what roles alisae assigned them personally-
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like that's actually idioticIn post 187, Firebringer wrote:
We can try but lolIn post 185, Mathdino wrote:reading larges is dangerous for my health
still surprised that people did that
can't we just play pretending that guilty child is on our ignore list
this setup should be townsided with combination of
1. choose your side meta (props to LLD for reminding everyone of this beautiful thing)
2. innocent child is supposed to be the counterbalance to guilty child but it's extremely +town EV while pine is 0 EV
3. NSG is basically an innocent child as well, along with others depending on what roles alisae assigned them personally
There is a reason for Pines title
i beat scum pine literally by ignoring his bullshit about self-meta (HE NEVER BUSSES UNLESS HE DOES, GUYS) and ignoring everything he said once he was confscum to me
Edit: oh wow it looks like pine made a post, guess i'm not reading that-
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no, reading larges is dangerous for my healthIn post 196, northsidegal wrote:hey math, did you ever read open 701?
i read your ISO, like two others, and the entire mafia PT, but that was it-
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Mathdino Survivor
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wait does that script actually work even though scum wrote it
do you wanna make a pact NSG to create an expanding ignore-pinebloc-
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1. not picking ellibereth is gamethrowingIn post 205, Firebringer wrote:If I was scum who would I pick?
Probably two good scum players and probably two just weird choices?
Maybe something like mastina, Reckoner, kuhaku and shos?
i would lol if pine lost just because he wasn't familiar enough with the playerlist to know this
2. picking 2 weird choices is overrated if they don't have the charisma to survive as either alignment
Edit: ginngie stop talking to pine-
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Mathdino Survivor
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like guys if you wanna be buddy buddy with pine that's great, happy for the family reunion, but just do it outside the thread thanks
i've been sitechatting him since he got back last week or so lol-
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i actually don't know how that works lol
are you on chrome NSG?
will teach myself JS if it means i can make sure that script is restricted to only this thread so everyone can use it-
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OMG CAN WE POLICY LYNCH BOTH MASTINAANDGINNGIE IF THEY KEEP TALKING TO PINE
BOTH OF THEM ARE INCREDIBLY OVERRATED AT TOWNPLAY
edit: NSG GOAT-
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NSG there seems to be a flaw in the code
while i did lol at thisIn post 227, northsidegal wrote: inner.innerText = "Ignore confirmed scum, ";
is there any way we can make this line funnier-
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fuck it only works if the URL starts with the thread URL
doesn't work if you click post numbers
still, good enough-
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i'm guessing there's a way to get it to input the thread title (which itself is a link to the thread URL) and only execute the script on this threadIn post 243, northsidegal wrote:oh true, i guess it's a trade off between having to turn it off elsewhere and that
guessing that would also allow hiding pine on pedit boxes and topic review
Edit: yeah those people are dumb and don't know how to use sitechat to talk to their friend-
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i'm gonna be completely honest here and say i don't give a fuck if she's town
like realtalk for a second here
there are basically 2 players total that i respect when self-voting as town (assuming the mechanics aren't wonky, i.e. vengeful or short deadline)
and both of them have hilariously good reads directly after the self-vote. like HILARIOUSLY good. one does it to (successfully) WIFOM the scum
but those players are also pretty well recognised as messes of AtE and not something newbies should aspire to
mastina has published by far the most articles on mafia theory. like i actually find it difficult to write articles around stuff that mastina has already ranted for 5 pages about. when people read up on how to play mafia, they are by far most likely to run into mastina.
So fuck self-voters. And fuck them even more when they're incredibly prominent members of the community with dedicated schools of townplay.
We're lynching mastina D1 or D2. Take your pick.-
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i meanIn post 257, Mulch wrote:I'm just going to town!confirm Aristophanes right now beause Pine isn't a fucking idiot (someone correct me if wrong)
My oh my it feels good to be on the opposite side of these townsinded as fuck alignment non random games
the key is to not do exactly what everyone expects you to do lol
and to do something just slightly less optimal than maximum
also someone raised a good point in that pine didn't have access to ALL his top picks. first pick was most likely either
Pine: mastina
Alisae: Ellibereth, X, X (nothing matters at this point tbh
or
Pine: Ellibereth
Alisae: {good scum player}, {good town player}, etc-
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glad you liked my (admittedly mostly fabricated) speechIn post 261, Mulch wrote:
VOTE: MathdinoIn post 260, Mathdino wrote:i'm gonna be completely honest here and say i don't give a fuck if she's town
like realtalk for a second here
there are basically 2 players total that i respect when self-voting as town (assuming the mechanics aren't wonky, i.e. vengeful or short deadline)
and both of them have hilariously good reads directly after the self-vote. like HILARIOUSLY good. one does it to (successfully) WIFOM the scum
but those players are also pretty well recognised as messes of AtE and not something newbies should aspire to
mastina has published by far the most articles on mafia theory. like i actually find it difficult to write articles around stuff that mastina has already ranted for 5 pages about. when people read up on how to play mafia, they are by far most likely to run into mastina.
So fuck self-voters. And fuck them even more when they're incredibly prominent members of the community with dedicated schools of townplay.
We're lynching mastina D1 or D2. Take your pick.
Wolfy as fuck
Not the fact that you are pushing a policy lynch, the tone behind it. It's fake as hell
Thoughts on LLD?
it's fake because i don't actually think mastina is more scum-indicative than normal
like it's hard to argue that lynching town-mastina is +town EV
(granted, nothing matters if ellitown anyway)
but i'm also aware that she's hard to lynch
i hereby pledge to reenact political campaign ads in order to get mastina lynched for this absolute fuckery
because this is a major element of declining self meta
which i recognise that you don't recognise but whatever
it's morning in mafiascum-
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policy lynching policy lynchers is some idiotic shit that is also a major part of declining town site metaIn post 268, Parama wrote:i'd policy lynch math for voting mastina before i policy lynched mastina for self-voting
p-edit: wow. someone who doesn't know dgb, that's actually kinda adorable
people are actively afraid of lynching the shit out of lurkers and people who claim scum-
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@mulch: i'm avoiding talking about LLD right now for about another week or so-
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this is exactly like every other depressing sequel isn't itIn post 281, Mulch wrote:Mastina is town
Lynching town =bad
I'm not using this game as a platform to try and create "long term reform" in MS
I wanna win
badly
--- and Mastina isn't completely destructive
tbh if i only wanted long term reform i'd probably WOTC ellibereth for youknowwhat but w/e
if chara turns out to be scum i will withhold on policy lynching mastina, fair?
also having just finished a game with town mastina who tunneled me for a whole day, blew up the thread (allowing scum to hide), and actively ignored anything i had to say
while butting into the conversations i was having in order to try to sort people (which hurt my ability to sort people)
i disagree that mastina is less destructive than derpy hooves
and flubbernugget is fine-
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firebringer is clearly being sarcasticIn post 282, Parama wrote:
i love too lynch lurkers but i'll also self-vote all day, y'all aren't even lynching fire and he claimed scum first so w/eIn post 277, Mathdino wrote:
policy lynching policy lynchers is some idiotic shit that is also a major part of declining town site metaIn post 268, Parama wrote:i'd policy lynch math for voting mastina before i policy lynched mastina for self-voting
p-edit: wow. someone who doesn't know dgb, that's actually kinda adorable
people are actively afraid of lynching the shit out of lurkers and people who claim scum
mastina is outright pulling slayer's gambit
also mastina is a more respected mafia theorist than firebringer-
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what the fuckIn post 298, mastina wrote:
Except, legit, I genuinely think it is. While I did make that post more or less as a parody, the point behind it? Dead serious.In post 274, Mathdino wrote:like it's hard to argue that lynching town-mastina is +town EV
I think that lynching me before endgame is +town EV.
I don'tlikeeating mislynches (especially since by my SWA algorithm that's an automatic -2), but when it's part of gamebreaking I can bite the bullet. And I legit think that lynching me at some point DOES accomplish that. I'm not sure about when, specifically, lynching me would be the right play. But lynching me, I genuinely feel helps the town. It's just a question of when, and what I can do to maximize said help.
I don't have the specifics planned out. But I more or less mapped out in my mind...I can't find the words for it, but the beginning of a strategy whereby lynching me helps to expose the scum.
the last time i argued for policy lynching you before lylo you went balls to the wallpost shitting on my play and arguing you'll never get lynched no matter what
are you purposefully just saying something completely different every game re: self meta-
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hoooo boy i have some spicy things to spam this game with in a week or so as well-
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@mulch/firebringer:
this is the ideal mafia postIn post 46, mastina wrote:Hey.
VOTE: mastina.
Dead serious here.
I'm entering in a 1v1 with mastina.
Like. If she flips town POWER lynch me here.
I was informed that role assignment wasn't random this game.
Pine knows me to be a stellar scum player and not quite as strong a town player, yet I wasn't one of his picks for the scumteam.
But unless I massively misunderstood the game's nature: Pine did in fact get a choice in at least ONE scumbuddy, if not all three. (Something about a draft order.)
He didn't select me.
I refuse to believe he allowed both me and mastina to be town.
So lynch me, lynch mastina, doesn't matter who you lynch first but mastina is scum.
Guaranteed.
you may not like it
but this is what peak performance looks like
also FWIW i agree that there is no way ginngie and mastina are both scum-
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wat
i'm saying that a scumflip between the two of you hardclears the other one-
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HEY OK WAIT
so obviously trying to sus out pine's picks is some dumb shit because his job is to WIFOM us out
but alisae's picks are naturally going to be more honest
what are the chances that alisae allows pine to draft more than one of {Ellibereth, mastina, Ginngie} given that she gets 3 picks in a row?-
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i'm strongly considering keeping a counter of who talks to pine more and policy lynching whichever of mastina and ginngie is highestIn post 343, Ginngie wrote:
Fuck you.In post 342, Pine wrote:I will point out that you were both Town last game, and I won. Gin even got endgamed.
Edit: not talking about that one yet-
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not gonna post a reads list until everyone checks in, sorry
almost everything that's been posted so far is unreadable nonsense
also fuck you i win by townhunting
{mulch, NSG, parama} is where i'm at
if we can get a scumflip on {ellibereth, mastina, ginngie} that's 2 more 100% townies-
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wait you still around kiana?-
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@Kiana:
Thoughts on this post?In post 424, Firebringer wrote:I just had an epiphany that Alisae doesn’t really have an incentive to try to form an all star town team so he could just draft randomly or for no good reason
camn and Pine have wincons. Alisae does not.
Also you need to stop masonhunting. The vast majority of scumwins in mason setups are lost because town is full of dumb shits that accidentally force the masons to out themselves. See history of Friends & Enemies.-
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this here's a townslip btwIn post 702, Kuuhaku wrote:I absolutely missed the miller claim, didn't see it at all, but from NSG's posts independently I've been townreading her outside of it. I see no reason to change my read based on something as irrelevant as a miller claim.
scum-kiana would remember all the claims i think-
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Mathdino Survivor
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wasn't going to ask, but okay
your reasons mostly show a lack of understanding of my playstyle, which is whatever
people were scumreading me in BYM D1 because that was an offgame with the nonstop shitshow
Edit: jesus christ-
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Mathdino Survivor
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you overestimate your own read accuracy significantly more than RC does, kiana
like you're slowly turning into the new him in that regard-
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Mathdino Survivor
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have you ever actually calculated your own read accuracyIn post 724, Kuuhaku wrote:
Coming from a scumread, I'll take this comment with a bucketload of salt.In post 722, Mathdino wrote:you overestimate your own read accuracy significantly more than RC does, kiana
like you're slowly turning into the new him in that regard
PoE does 5 times as much work as actual scumhunting, which, for the majority of players, results in = random reads
yours included-
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i'm just gonna let everyone else deal with thisIn post 727, Kuuhaku wrote:Yes, I have, it's above 80%. Don't believe me? Check my completed games where I was town. The base rate where a random number generator is used to determine reads is 33%, which is most scum:town ratios. Weaker players are worse than that.
this is inaccurate on 3 different levels-
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Mathdino Survivor
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sighIn post 734, Kuuhaku wrote:
I doubt anybody cares, to be honest. It's like, you asked me a question, I answered you, then when I gave an answer that you don't like, you go "nope, gonna let others deal with this."In post 732, Mathdino wrote:
i'm just gonna let everyone else deal with thisIn post 727, Kuuhaku wrote:Yes, I have, it's above 80%. Don't believe me? Check my completed games where I was town. The base rate where a random number generator is used to determine reads is 33%, which is most scum:town ratios. Weaker players are worse than that.
this is inaccurate on 3 different levels
Then why ask?
1. i HAVE been checking your completed towngames, your scumread accuracy is not 80%. ELLIBERETH'S scumread accuracy isn't even 80%
if your townread accuracy is 80%, you are exactly average
2. random reads are 25% accurate on scumreads, 75% accurate on townreads
3. you don't seem to know what ratio means
4. you constantly act like you're some hot shit, SAY that you're some hot shit, and it's annoying as shit and i thought i'd get away from that kind of playstyle after RC got banned
like people call me egotistical but that's mostly because of confidence
i'm pretty honest about my reads accuracy and the possibility of being wrong
you're just... not
i asked because i was hoping we could talk about your self awareness for a second (something something read my article) but w/e
you're fitting right in on this site-
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Mathdino Survivor
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- "If you don't like my answer, why ask": because i wanted to see whether you had, and if you had, how accurate your self appraisal actually is
- oh fuck off, i nailed NSG and mulch. you weren't ejected, you threw a tantrum. i voted against my reads that lylo because i sheep the dead as a matter of principle
people don't sheep the dead nearly enough on MS
i assumed that RC would have a correct read on CT given his history of correctly reading her
- you're asking me counterquestions when i respond to you yet you want me to not respond to you?
80% scumread accuracy is such a meme
i'm waiting to talk about my scumreads for a thing to finish in a few days or so
D1 is literally "find a lynch that isn't shit, hope ellibereth is town, and wait for him to solve the game"
so far shit lynches would be
{Mulch, NSG, Parama (why the fuck are people scumreading this), Aristophanes, Kiana} and probably {BBMolla}-
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Mathdino Survivor
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hilariously cluttered ISO but on review firebringer is town as well-
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if you don't want me to continue the discussion stop fucking asking me questions then
i follow your games onsite, i know exactly why you replaced out of all your games (welcome back to an alisae large theme btw), and my statements of having nailed NSG from the first 5 pages are entirely correct
you literally started a discussion with "HEY MATHDINO YOURE GOING TO ASK WHY IM SCUMREADING YOU AND HERES WHY"
to which my response is, i don't really give a fuck, you townslipped and you have a way higher opinion of yourself than what is in any way realistic, and it's like i'm playing with another 2018 RC
all i wanted to talk to you about in the first place was the alignment choice meta thing
i suspect that alisae might have balanced the game in response to the skill level of the scumteam
but i really don't think alisae is "playing to town wincon" like camn is-
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Mathdino Survivor
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reckoner do you have reads on {Parama, DGB, LLD} based on ISO
the hyperposters will get sorted by the 2017ers who all know each other, i wouldn't worry about that-
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Mathdino Survivor
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oh actually i'll throw in BBMolla and maybe aristophanes?
who can you reliably read in this game on ISO-
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Wait you didn't answer the parama question reck