Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[BuJaber]

Shaz shoot pidgey or klazam please.

Don't say who

[BuJaber]

I believe we need to lynch joda next day. If she flips orange guaranteed her partner voted her for olympics

[BuJaber]

Massclaim time? Might help especially regarding gamma.

Down to lynch klazam > joda > mark > pidgey > marshy in that order. This might change if people claim. We might get some people caught in a lie.

I think joda is getting a free pass. Don't get what's so townie there.

A50 shot could be wifom to stop us shooting religion spreaders but I mean it worked if that was the point.

HEAL: Host: Brass x3

[BuJaber]

Don't just claim roles I think we need action claims for all nights to figure out what happened.

[BuJaber]

Massclaim time? Might help especially regarding gamma.

Down to lynch klazam > joda > mark > pidgey > marshy in that order. This might change if people claim. We might get some people caught in a lie.

I forgot ran.. he'd go somewhere around klazam/joda.

Joey do you want to lynch someone with a higher chance of flipping red (if scum) or someone who can flip either red/orange?

To be honest if chara lives until the end she would start to look really good as last red so if you think she slipped non-red please share.

I have a theory regarding the A50 kill but I need to see how the day progresses to see if it makes sense. It's very WIFOMy and assumes I'm reading a certain someone correctly.

[BuJaber]

I can't be the only one getting loads of scum from OTM, can I?

Don't know about 'loads' but no you're not. Especially since he replaced titus.

How about a readlist?

(If it weren't clear anybody I didn't put in the lynch preferences post I currently townread).

[BuJaber]

I'm starting to think klazam can't be orange.

There's quite a bit of disagreement but apart from mark pushing for a shaz lynch there doesn't seem to be any clear counter wagons to klazam. I don't think orange will be obvious about defending him but would want to at least offer some real alternatives. There isn't a lot of consensus right now.
Does mark make sense as orange?
A lot of people are getting townread and it makes me uneasy.

[BuJaber]

If I'm right that klazam can't be orange I don't think we should lynch him yet.

Looks like joey agrees with that. Joey could you explain / remind me why ran can't be red from your pov?

I think one orange at least is definitely in the townbloc. I think it is therefore best if we try to lynch someone who could be orange.

Ideal lynch is someone who could flip either red or orange actually. I think joda or mark then is our best best.
I don't like 4905 .. the annoying comment comes of as LAMIST and it's a good way to buddy both chara and mark in one post if they are both town.

Who hasn't voted for host yet? Let's finish up the congress stuff.

[BuJaber]

Looks like joey agrees with klazam =/= orange is what I meant.

[BuJaber]

My point was to lynch outside of the townbloc for someone who could in theory flip either red or orange.

If red we get rid of last red.
If orange we can use the flip to find who among the townbloc is orange.
If town we can probably gain some info anyway because some people would have townread them some would have scumread them by virtue of them not being locktowned.

I am not saying that red isn't in the townbloc but I don't want to start lynching in the townbloc in hopes of catching scum. If red is in the townbloc there are no remaining partners we can flip first to determine who it is. But in the case of orange there is.

I think therefore it is more efficient go for someone who is controversial (not in townbloc) and who can potentially flip either red or orange.

Sorry if I explained it badly but that is basically the summary of my 2 posts above.

[BuJaber]

@chara - I guess it doesn't matter much but I think it is still slightly better shot to go for joda / mark.

Assuming 15/3/3:
We have 12 alive. 9 town 2 orange 1 red.
Religion spreader (can flip only orange or green): 2/11 chance of being scum (assuming no other info).

Can flip only red or green: 1/10 chance of being scum

Can flip any color: 3/12 chance of being scum = 1/4.

Obviously reads and game events change the odds here and there but apart from mark against shaz and shaz against mark nobody seems particularly sure of who they want to lynch so I am using that to make a choice between my scumreads.

So for me it's joda or mark.

[BuJaber]

I'm starting to think klazam can't be orange.

There's quite a bit of disagreement but apart from mark pushing for a shaz lynch there doesn't seem to be any clear counter wagons to klazam. I don't think orange will be obvious about defending him but would want to at least offer some real alternatives. There isn't a lot of consensus right now.
Does mark make sense as orange?
A lot of people are getting townread and it makes me uneasy.

Starting? what about the constant analysis stating Klazam is likely not buddies with Varsoon?

That wasn't my own analysis this is.

[BuJaber]

Mark apart from shaziro who would you want to lynch?

Shaziro apart from mark who would you want to lynch?

Has everyone voted for congress host? Please do if you haven't.

[BuJaber]

OTM is my only vote today. They're the right vote. Depending on what scumteam they flip, I'd be looking into Chara after that.

This isn't helpful.

I am more inclined to be on your side because lynching you today seems dumb to me even if I believed you to be SK 100% (which I don't - I think you're more likely to be town).

However some people are getting swayed by both the titus replace out and mark's posting and they know them better than I do. So it seems a little risky to lynch mark.

But at the same time my conclusions lead me to either joda or mark for today's lynch. So in this case lynching mark seems optimal also in sorting you out.
As soon as the congress stuff is over my vote will go there.

All that doesn't mean you shouldn't answer my question. I don't care that you don't want to vote someone else. Town consensus might differ and I want to hear what you think. Looking into chara after a mark flip is obvious and implied from your pov so that doesn't say much.

This is especially important when you have 2 people arguing and fighting to lynch the other. We need to hear from you both. Because scum or town your opinions will matter for analyzing the game after either of you die.

Mark v Shaz needs to be sorted.
Joda / Mark both have the potential to flip either red or orange.
Klazam / Ran have been scumread several times by different people throughout the game. I think those early reads from our dead brethren should be taken into consideration.

I think the lynch should be mark but if not then at least one of those names (except shaz because like I said I think it's not the right time for his lynch even if he is SK. If he is SK he does not want orange to remain a 2 person team)


I hope joey doesn't leave but if he does let's hope we get a quick replacement.

Gamma where are you at the moment. Got a Lynch preferences or updated read list?


Pedit - regarding my play I'm naturally not inclined to take a commanding role in mafia games unless I feel it is necessary and I have the time to do so. Mainly because I don't like feeling like the game is a chore and because I don't like posting when I don't really have anything to say. Town leaders have to talk and stir up conversation constantly and that is not something that comes easily to me. Also RL situation has changed since I started the game so activity level has dropped. I don't know if this is what you mean by oomph but that's the explanation.

[BuJaber]

Voting scum is inherently helpful, BuJaber.

Of course but you understand that the point of asking is to gain info about you and possibly other people when they react to it. I already know you want to vote for mark. I already understood that you only want to vote for mark. But that doesn't answer my question. Also if you don't get 6 other people to vote mark with you your vote is wasted so too much rigidity is not good.

Especially when the person asking you is someone who townread gamma before you outed your kills and is suspicious of mark so has at least two reads that align with yours.

[BuJaber]

Um what? How does a gamma scumread align with Shaz's reads?

My post says townread gamma not scumread gamma.

?????

[BuJaber]

I don't think it's that obvious today..
There's something like 6 candidates for lynch mark, shaz, joda, klaza, ran and me.

Those are not people everyone scumreads. Those are players people have expressed varying degree of interest in lynching today. I don't think any other name have come up except for just now joda seems to be suspecting joey.

[BuJaber]

Yes my preference for today is mark or joda.
Since mark seems convinced shaz is SK and Shaz seems convinced mark is scum it makes sense to lynch mark first. If he is scum it clears shaz. If he is town it looks suspicious that shaz was so sure.

[BuJaber]

I mean technically shaz could still be SK if gamma is town and somewhere along the line some teams missed. I don't think anybody thinks shaz is scum. Mark thinks he is SK.

As for marshy and pidgey I was under the impression we are treating them as town just for now since A50 got flipped. Only if we don't find scum within 1 or 2 lynches and they are still alive do we look into them further? I know they could easily have killed a50 for wifom but there are definitelly better options for today's lynch.

[BuJaber]

Mark I just find it really difficult to see shaz as SK here.
Not when he defended gamma so hard. Not when he claims he's out of kills.
But even if he is why on earth would we lynch him now without hard evidence?
Is he planning to holster every night and coast and then surprise us with a final kill?
If he isn't we easily catch him if there are extra kills at any future night.

It's not that I don't think you could be town, but you are one of two people (and me) that if scum can potentially flip either red or orange plus I can't see the town motivation for pushing shaziro now when they are definitely scum alive.

If you're town let's lynch joda or at least klazam or Ranmaru.

I just think it's a really bad time to go after someone who may or may not be SK, but we are pretty much sure he isn't scum. I could see it if maybe he could flip red here but considering we had 3 deaths day 1 he can't be last red.

[BuJaber]

Joey had gamma as possible red?

I don't think he works as last red. That's why he isn't on my list.

Joda - it's not that I doubt your claim necessarily that makes me not clear you (Even though admittedly it is a claim that allows for convenient fake actions), but I find it weird how you seemed to be townread by a lot of people and I guess I'm just not convinced you've done enough for me to townread you. I suppose it is partly that your posts/reads haven't been memorable to me and so I failed to see what got you townread.
If one of your actions was backed up by somebody then I missed it.

If both you and mark are town then at least one of klazam/ran just has to be scum or the townbloc has some deeply disguised scum in it.

[BuJaber]

Joey didn't have me as possible red wat

I do't think he did but you said if I got joda/mark from the table I need to add you too so I assumed you meant joey's table and asked you if he did in case I missed something.

[BuJaber]

I'm surprised you still have this much faith in mark being town considering how anti-town it is to go after shaziro at this moment in time.

What is happening with the resolutions brass/thor?

[BuJaber]

I meant that joda was kinda clear on the same principle as me I feel

What do you think clears you and how does it also apply to joda?

[BuJaber]

But they're quite useless in that regard aren't they?

Religion spreader can't lie because at least 1 person has to back him up. If successful the person they recruited knows it.
If they failed the person they claim to recruit has to say they received nothing and someone with a tracker/blocker/similar has to provide evidence why it failed.

If one of you was full fledged tracker every night then maybe I can see it but this way the existence of religion spreaders doesn't make your claims any more or less believable.

I townread you for some early day 1 reads for the fact that your claim is a difficult lie for scum to make and then shaziro accounting for the 3rd kill sealed the deal.

None of those I can use to townread joda.

[BuJaber]

Some variety of cop or motion detector or watcher seem much more useful with religion spreaders for example.

Pedit - wait was joda the one that confirmed your visit to brass?

[BuJaber]

I read the relevant posts from his ISO. I forgot it was her.

Honestly the way she did it was pretty townie. So yeah like shaziro she can only be scum if you are also scum.

Unless for some reason he is a scum inventor.

But yeah alright sorry joda I forgot who tracked gamma.

So mark >> Klazam >> Ran >> Pidgey. That's my preference for today.

If joda and gamma live long enough and we haven't lynched any oranges they would be confirmed scum anyway.

[BuJaber]

That should be enough votes for taoism. I want to use mine to vote against the international games. Anybody got any reason why I shouldn't?

[BuJaber]

That should be enough votes for taoism. I want to use mine to vote against the international games. Anybody got any reason why I shouldn't?

Are you against giving Joey's replacement more congress votes?

Replacement is key word here. I highly doubt thor has read all 200 pages. His contextual knowledge of the game is limited. I'm quite confideng that he is town. I am just not confident in his judgment.

Then there's the games themselves. We don't know if it will be the same as the one pidgey got.
We also don't know if this time the hosting of the events will benefit the people he chooses.

Why risk it? Are the extra delegates worth it in your eyes?

[BuJaber]

@gamma - thanks.. can't say I agree; will wait for others' opinion.


@Ran I can't share my trade secrets lol.
From my own observations my scumgames:
- have significantly less posts (this would inevitably become less of an issue with experience; I just find myself stuck with nothing to say a lot)
-focus heavily on not exposing my partners if I flip. I usualy go in with the expectation I will be lynched day 1/day 2.
-attempts to imitate my town-motivated analysis.

I think the most noticeable thing is I am more reserved with my crazy ideas. I really say whatever comes to my mind if I think it helps the game when I'm town. That is much more difficult to do as scum because my brain isn't actively analyzing so the crazy ideas aren't coming to me as frequently.

I'll link games in a sec

[BuJaber]

You two don't have any issue with mark pushing for an SK lynch (who is likely town) instead of scum lynch?

[BuJaber]

Scumgames:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=74864

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=75137
(Early replace out but multiball)

Recent but non-typical mechanics:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=75509

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=75513






As for pidgey my ego would enjoy her flipping scum so much for calling her out early when most townread or ignored her. So I am biased and don't want to make that decision on her now.
Also considering she claimed religion spreader we can test her and marshy as soon as we have any orange flip because they can't spread and kill in the same night. So I don't think it's a good flip.
Also a50's death while not conclusive sort of clears her and marshy but that's only because of wifom reasoning.

So yeah in conclusion I'm not convinced she is town but she is a bad flip today. She is quite easily confirmable later.

[BuJaber]

Ok, I think I support a massclaim now tbh, but I'll go ahead and claim anyhow because NKA may just be useful here.

I'm Japan, hence my first post in this game starting with a haiku, and I have Bushido. I'm a vig. I shot Dunker, and I shot Kokichi.

Shaz claimed 2 shots.
Why can't he be town 2-shot vig?


Beyond that you agree that religion spreaders can be outed by mechanics so we will be able to deal with them later.

Shaz is easier to prove as SK. As soon as there is (living scumteams alive) + 1 kills in any night shaz becomes conf SK.

So he is either town.
Or he is SK that cannot shoot.
Or not even a vig but orange with gamma.

You think he is SK an a danger to town. Tell me what happens tomorrow if night 3 has 3 kills. Is shaz not and auto lynch in that scenario? So why why why why why would we ever let scum who we know are still alive get a free pass to lynch someone who Miiight be an SK that absolutely cannot kill at night or he is outed. Which goes against his wincon of survival. You are worried about an extra kill per night when that is not an option at all unless shaz game throws.

The only acceptable reason to vote for shaz today would be if you think he is orange with gamma here. And frankly considering that joda is also tied to gamma, the one to lynch would be gamma because he is connected to both possibilities.

By the same token townreading gamma means joda and shaziro cannot be scum.


Since you have never suggested that gamma/shaz are scum I assume you don't consider that possibility. Which is why I have a big problem with you going after shaz.

[BuJaber]

Yeah screw it he is ignoring me and chara when we question his logic too.

FOS chara for not freaking out more about him actually

VOTE: mark

[BuJaber]

My hesitation came from questioning whether a scum would actually push an anti-town lynch like that. It's incredibly ballsy.

[BuJaber]

bu

even if mark is scum do you really think chara would be so obvious about it? theyve played with mark before and just saying "resisting the scum lynch = partners lol" is ???

townies defend/are wrong on scum all the time and i think such a case would likelier point to them being unaligned in all worlds. you really think char is soft defending here? shaz doing this too but hes the vig and shot a scum so hes off the table

I'm just not sure. I just find it suspicous that she isn't more aggressive. She clearly disagrees with his logic. He is clearly not addressing her points. She's too trusting of her meta read imo.

If mark flips scum though I wouldn't immediately jump to chara. I think we're probably still better of addressing klazam/ran who have been on sooo many people's radar and try to sort out the religion spreaders mechanically before it gets too close to lylo.

[BuJaber]

Well I mean your replace back in does point to you not being red. I feel like red wouldn't have bothered to return.

[BuJaber]

Skip his opinions. Read the facts about the game that joey has posted time and time again. Chara suggested it for a reason.

Normally I would be against it in case you scumslip by saying something that doesn't quite fit with your predecessor but it's good in this case because joey's ISO is probably the fastest way to catch up.

[BuJaber]

Besides I for one am pretty confident you are town so the scumslip thing is irrelevant.

[BuJaber]

So you can tell who is not an optimal kill for scum without knowing who scum is?

Scum killing A50 is easily explained. Joey/gamma claimed commute. A50 was pretty much confirmed townie because he targeted brass and brass confirmed the conversion. If we lynched a religion spreader it would have never been A50 first. If you don't kill A50 and you will probably miss if you shoot gamma/joey who do you have left to kill? Most remaining are lynch candidates.
Maybe brass or chara. Was brass protected last night? I don't remember all claims today.

Killing A50 actually reduces the chance that we lynch a religion. Because of the reactions already displayed. We are questioning the kill. Some of us are refusing to lynch a religion spreader today. Some are even questionining if orange actually has a religion spreader.



I highly doubt you actually believe what you're saying. In what world is it more likely that an SK who has claimed vig unprompted and then claimed out of shots has lied and killed someone and the 2 remaining scum teams both shot an untargetable player??!

This is the opposite of assuming the simplest explanation is the correct explanation.

[BuJaber]

No we lynch Mark.

He is picking and choosing which arguments to respond to and he keeps talking about his past successes to justify what is essentially a gut read.

His obtimal / suboptimal arguments are weak.
A) I don't agree that A50 kill was suboptimal.
B) he says that we aren't going to kill religion spreaders in the short term but will once the numbers dwindle. Exactly that is my point.. religion spreader scum gets to live longer because A50 died.
C) he says we shouldn't assume scum played suboptimally but suggesting we kill potential SK is suboptimal for town when there are scum factions still alive especially when he's outed. In fact assuming shaz is SK is in itself assuming that shaz played suboptimaly with his claims. Why should we play suboptimally when you think scum are playing optimally.
D) there was only 1 kill last night. That is proof that scum played suboptimally. They lost a chance at killing another towie.
E) why can't red shoot A50? That part wasn't clear to me.

Then there's the posts. Scum subconsciously talk about how good their scumgame is or their analysis is or whatever other skills they have more than usual because they need to backup cases they know are fake.

Suspecting ranmaru is suspicious given the timing.

Mark
Shaziro defended gamma aggressively at a time when a gamma lynch was quite probable.
When people weren't convinced he claimed vig and the dunk kill.
He claimed a kill on a townie the next day knowing full well he will have to explain it. There were 2 kills. He didn't need to claim it when he could have claimed consecutive or 1 shot. (If you believe he could claim 2 shot I assume claiming 1 shot is in the realm of possibilities).
He then claimed he is out of shots.

Where is the motivation to do any of that?

Even the dunk kill. Dunk was suspected by several people he was likely to flip scum. Why would SK shoot probable scum in night 1?

[BuJaber]

Pidgey, I did say I was not convinced in my own case anymore, as I re-read more I realized I was wrong. I also remembered you voted Klazam early in Day 1, and started thinking you might have been right. Can you tell me why you voted him at that time? I also don't think you are orange scum, as I said before. Mark is orange scum.

Why though.. 5226 is an example of pidgey's latest post trend. She is only committing to 2 reads. Klazam and joda. The rest is just fluff that basically amounts to a nullread on everyone else.

Also she makes sense as orange with mark especially considering mark is insisting that religion spreader scum would not kill A50.

Next 3 lynches should be:

Mark > klazam > joda (if mark is scum, otherwise we try to mechanically catch marshy/pidgey)

Or klazam > mark > joda (same conditional as above)

Don't forget that being on the wagon of red scum is good for orange. They might try to lynch elsewhere but if given a choice between something that may expose them or lynching potential last red they will always pick red. They also would never defend red scum.

[BuJaber]

Buja

: I was too focused on Pidgey's actions near deadline for two days. Yet I re-read and realized he felt slightly town, due to his pushes of gut and feeling. I can't deny that he may be partnered with Mark, as I see no connection that shows he is definitely

not

orange scum with Mark, yet I find no evidence linking him to Mark

either

. Individually though, as a whole, I don't get the feeling he is Orange Scum. By giving the two conditionals, do you mean to say you are fine with Mark or Klazam going either way? If not, can you explain why you prefer Mark first. I just want to take the most optimal path for town.

Mark has to be lynched before pidgey. But klazam and mark can be lynched in any order. So yeah I'm fine with mark or klazam today. I think they're blatant scum.

[BuJaber]

Town: Joda, Thor, Brass, Me, Shaziro
Maybe town(unlikely to be scum): Chara, marshy
No clue (could be scum): Ran, Gamma
Scummy: Bujaber, OTM, Klazam

Hows that for a bunch of nulls

And btw, this is not me making stuff up, this is just what ive said but organized. So take that bu

It's perfect, thank you

[BuJaber]

I don't agree with the olympics thing. I think they're an unnecessary risk.

HURT: nay for international games x 3

[BuJaber]

It's in my ISO.

Basically thor hasn't read everything I'm not sure I would trust him to make the best decisions. Also we don't know if the games would have the same effect as last time (flavor only +extra delegates for pidgey) .. this time it might not be flavor only. I don't think we need the extra delegates anyway. We can pick anybody we want for host which keeps the extra delegates and has a lot of delegates so as long as the host is town it will be very difficult for scum to go against the town in congress voting.

[BuJaber]

Ran wtf. Gamma can only be scum with joda or shaz. You have neither of those in your supposed team.

I think both wagons are on scum.

If klazam is town chara is red and pidgey is orange. Mark my words.

But just hammer either of them.

[BuJaber]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Klazam

I want another day to think about ran/mark.

[BuJaber]

It seems too easy if mark/ran/klazam are all scum.

Probably one of ran/mark is town and derping hard.

[BuJaber]

Ran if you're town reconsider what you're saying about gamma and thor.

Mark if you're town reconsider what you're saying about shaziro.

[BuJaber]

Lol no way I'm lynching thor before klazam, mark, ran, pidgey, chara, marshy. So basically if joey is scum he just wins.

And gamma is a package deal with joda / shaz. Only considering lynching gamma if we mislynch twice in a row. Then we have to consider these pairs and think about what makes the most sense.

I though mark was crazy for pushing the shaziro lynch but ran's thoeries are now even crazier.

And pidgey is scum man how come nobody sees this?

[BuJaber]

Klazam first. This is a classic derail. Klazam doesn't really work as orange but why else would scum be derailing this wagon.. I mean maybe scum is trying to keep red alive for the additional kill per night??

The counterwagons, the crazy theories.. it all makes sense if trying to stop klazam wagon. Lynch this first then I will listen to anybody who wants to build a case on anyone else. (I can't promise I will agree though).

Pedit - maybe pidgey.. I hope so honestly it easier to win if you're town because you're like 3rd or 4th in the lynch order.

Ran - gamma CANNOT be scum unless either 1) shaziro lied. 2) jodax lied. 3) both of them lied.

[BuJaber]

Ran - gamma claimed he visited brass night 1. Jodax backed him up saying he saw him visit brass.

Everyone was under the impression that elbirn soft claimed he visited gamma. Elbirn died night 1 as a weak role so gamma became a top scum suspect. Shaziro defended him by claiming he shot dunk with his vig, meaning scum probably killed elbirn. Because if elbirn died with his weak role where is the 4th kill?

So basically if gamma is scum he can't be scum if joda and shaz are town.


Mark - might be a playstyle thing since he insists on being town without feeling the need to defend himself which is typically townie but his reads seem off and detached at times. There's a lot of what I consider fluff in his posts but not a lot of committing to reads. He is unvoting now because of ran's rambling which shouldn't convince anyone imo. Plus the religion spreader thing.
But like I told him I think there are several better lynches before I get around to actually voting him.

[BuJaber]

You are remembering it a little wromg thought. Gamma claimed he visited brass after joda mentioned in thread that he had info and that if someone visites an innocent child, would that have guaranteed attention. I dont think you can conclude that gamma has to be town if joda and shaz are town.

Doesn't matter jodax still claimed he saw gamma instead of anyone else.

Unless I guess gamma is scum but told the truth about visiting brass? But what scum role would that be? That makes even less sense

[BuJaber]

15 v 3 v 3 with one of town being vig seems balanced to me also

[BuJaber]

I was pretty sure pidgey was scum when mark flipped..
It would have explained why he pushed the scum are not religion spreader thing. These posts would be pretty ballsy from scum though if he actually did perform kill + action and risk being outed by mod. Could it be marshy?

Anyway I confirm I was converted to protestantism.

Maybe we were wrong and klazam is orange? Mark was pushing that wagon to bus or something?

I think lynching religion is still the safest bet. We know there's no SK. And red team should be dead so there should only be 1 NK per night now moving forward.

Shaz is proven town vig. So gamma cannot be scum unless joda is. I suppose joda could be scum by herself. But then wouldn't mark try to push for a gamma lynch to make his partner look better instead of pushing for a shaz lynch?

Marshy > pidgey > klazam > jodax

What do y'all think of this lynch order? If it isn't one of those I think we lose anyway.

[BuJaber]

Only 8 alive.. we have only 2 mislynches left..

We have to answer the question does orange have religion spreader?
We can't delay anymore. We act accordingly. Yes or no people please. Do you think orange has religion spreader?

I think yes.

[BuJaber]

Klazam I think it's more likely that one of marshy/pidgey is the scum BUT my point was that if mark and you were partners and wanted to make sure one of you can survive til endgame you would bus the shit out of each other day 4 considering you both became wagons.

[BuJaber]

Treat me as being on both wagons.
Look at how much I pushed and criticized mark. I BUILT that wagon. Ran's crazy theories were what made me hesitate because it felt like one of them is town and I couldn't decide who.

I'm town and I don't think gamma can be scum. What did he do to brass night 1 if he were scum?
Thor I think is also locktown and brass is IC.
That leaves marshy, pidgey, klazam, jodax.

[BuJaber]

Wagon analysis

Votecount 1.14

LYNCHED [11]

creature

:

Kokichi Oma

,

Nero Cain

,

Almost50

,

Chara

, marshy,

Shaziro

,

Ranmaru

, Gamma Emerald,

Elbirn

, Titus,

brassherald

[2]

Gamma Emerald:

ActionDan

, Klazam
[4]

Klazam:

pidgey,

Varsoon

, Jodaxq, BuJaber

NOT VOTING

:

• Kiana Kaslana (LaserGuy)
  ,
  Creature
  ,
  Dunkerdoodles
  , Joey_

Votecount 2.13

[2]

Gamma Emerald:

Titus (OnTheMark)

,

Ranmaru

[LYNCHED]

ActionDan:

marshy,

Brassherald

,

Chara

,

shaziro

, pidgey,

Almost50

,

Kokichi Oma

, Joey_,

Kiana Kaslana (LaserGuy)

[6]

ranmaru:

Jodaxq, BuJaber,

Nero Cain

, Gamma Emerald,

Actiondan

, Klazam

Votecount 3.FINAL

[8]

LaserGuy:

brassherald

,

OnTheMark

, Klazam, BuJaber, Joey_,

Ranmaru

, Gamma Emerald,

LaserGuy

LYNCH

[2]

Klazam:

Marshy,

Chara

,

Almost50

[1]

OnTheMark:

Shaziro

[2]

Ranmaru:

Jodaxq, pidgey

Votecount 4.7

[5]

Klazam

: marshy, Gamma Emerald, BuJaber, Thor665,

OnTheMark

[7]

OnTheMark

:

Shaziro

, Klazam, Jodaxq,

Ranmaru

, pidgey,

brassherald

,

chara

So Klazam actually looks pretty good here. Him being kept alive as lynchbait possibly. Many of us who voted for him before are still alive.
But if I recall correctly he was one of the first to come up with last orange is religion spreader theory. Which if both are town makes him look really suspicious because that idea has been a huge part of the discussion and analysis.
Mark was also heavily implying that if orange had religion spreader A50 kill was stupid. Which really makes me think he is defending his religion spreader buddy.
Jodax and Pidgey never vote with titus/Mark on any wagon.
I'd be very surprised if marshy is scum. He seems to stick to his votes and just stay there. If Klazam is town it also points to marshy being town since he tried to kill him twice. I don't think he'd keep him alive given that.
I think it's between gamma, jodax, and pidgey. But I can't think of why scum!gamma would target brass night 1.
Not sure why jodax confirmed gamma's brass visit.. maybe to make him look bad?
And if pidgey is scum why start day 5 talking about how he's confirmed not to have committed the kill when that is a lie. Seems rediculously risky when you can get outed by mod.


Honestly I'm leaning towards jodax now. With 2nd option being pidgey/marshy.
But claim-wise I'd be more tempted to believe jodax over gamma. Inventor is a convenient claim but it is also a weird one to fake. Do we know if scum were given fake claims?

I'm just gonna trust my gamma townread. Also the fact that shaziro killed dunk so night 1 elbirn died by scum. Best way to make gamma look bad.

So if I am right and scum is one of {jodax, pidgey, marshy} we can win this by lynching them in any order.

[BuJaber]

HEAL: brass host with all my delegates

Let's do this first

[BuJaber]

Time flies when nobody is posting.
Apparently I got prodded.

I prefer lynching jodax first. Is there a good town case for jodax?
But considering I fully believe we win the game if we lynch pidgey/marshy/jodax in any order, I will hammer any of those if they reach L-1.

VOTE: Jodax

Why I prefer to vote jodax first:
Marshy seems town to me by gut. So I prefer to keep him alive for now.
Pidgey has sworn up and down that he is town pretty much every day phase.
Mark was aggressively against the idea that last scum is religion spreader. So either the last scum is and this is reverse psychology defense of his buddy or he is WIFOMing by saying the truth and getting credit for it if we did lynch religion spreaders before him and they flipped town.
Jodax has to be last scum by elimination according to my reads if both marshy/pidgey are town.
IF ran's crazy ideas are correct and orange has 4 members for some reason, jodax flipping scum implicated gamma. So I'd want to know sooner because gamma is in my townbloc.

[BuJaber]

Is it though?
Non consec doc and it's roleblocker in a mutliball.

But if we're going into setup spec I'm still too inexperienced for that. I was going on what happened.

If others agree with your setup spec I'll switch to marshy.

If it isn't marshy/pidgey I don't know.. you must realize that you become the only possibility. Because for gamma to be scum he needs to have a trackable night action that does not kill and one of the scum teams not killing night 1/ both scums kill the same person /orange also shooting dunk.
Highly highly doubt joey slot is scum. I've followed his posts really carefully and had multiple 1 on 1 convos with him. Plus the way he stopped his roleplaying and the time he did it makes me think town. He got called out for it, continued to do it, and then a few days later stopped alltogether and his analysis posts shot up in volume.

So if it's not jodax or thor or marshy or pidgey or gamma it's you. But you are the one defending jodax so that doesn't make sense plus the wagon analysis points to your innocence.

[BuJaber]

Also I just finished a game where I was scum tracker and (one) of the reasons I was lynched was because I was not nightkilled. Yes there were other scummy things but it is a valid point in any game. How many nights are scum going to ignore a PR like that?

[BuJaber]

Marshy is replacing out btw

Do you think that could be AI?

So many replace outs lately

[BuJaber]

Can everyone please comment on klazam's setup spec? Is it reasonable?

And if we're gonna lynch a religion spreader pidgey should be first for sure.

[BuJaber]

Hahaha are you serious right now?

You make the decision to lynch a religion spreader then if he flips town you lynch someone else?

Once you go religion spreader you HAVE to lynch them both. Mechanically they are one and the same.

Post wise I've felt that pidgey has had a distanced pov of the game throughout. His posts have pinged me and others multiple times.

As for Mark I would assume that someone who spent so much time trying to bs their way out of getting lynched when they were clearly caught is methodical enough not to make their partner obvious.

If you actually think I'm not conftown by now you should lynch me now. It makes your loss faster so you get to spend more time doing something else. And who counts themselves when they're laying out a game plan? I know I'm town why I would I scumhunt myself.


Wanna lynch marshy I'll vote for him I'll trust the town consensus ... but to suggest that pidgey is not next in line in the event that marshy flips green is beyond insane and we need to talk about it first.

[BuJaber]

No pidgey > marshy > someone else

Or lynch me > then any fucking order you want

Because if we're gonna lose let's not make it a 250 page game and just take the plunge right now.

[BuJaber]

Pidgey do you seriously not see how stupid it is to lynch one religion spreader and not the other?

You hate me I don't care.. you can talk shit about me in the dead thread but they're losing it if they are suggesting to lynch only 1 of you.

[BuJaber]

All that tells me is that you think mark is an idiot.

See the point is if marshy CAN be mark's partner then you CAN be too.

Why? Because mark was pushing the idea that religion spreaders would never NK A50. He would be a complete scum amateur if he did that and dropped hints that one of the religion spreaders is his partner.

I don't think the posts you quoted show you can't be his partner. I don't think there is a clear connection between either of you to mark.

And that is why we either townread both of you or we lynch you in a row. Because if there is a religion spreader scum it has to be one of you. We can't go with that theory only to change our mind half way through.

Pedit - scum need 3 mislynches if you lynch me 3rd I still lose as scum.

[BuJaber]

I dont care about being lynched but it would be silly because ive played the towniest townie game that ever towned

This is coming from the guy who wants to lynch obvtown.

How can your posts be the towniest town that ever towned when in the same game my posts are scummy to you? Have you not read anything I've said and done?

[BuJaber]

I'll lynch marshy I don't care pidgey..as long as everyone agrees that you have to be next if he flips green

[BuJaber]

Literally every single post we've had where we talked about religion spreaders brings us to the conclusion that IF there is only one religion spreader alive and the last orange is not found that religion spreader has to be the last scum.

So you either think religion spreader is last orange or you don't.

You can't say marshy could be scum but then if he flips green pidgey is town too. That isn't logical because this way you are saying that marshy is scum but not because he is religion spreader which would mean the religion spreader thing is a coincidence which would raise the question why is he scum in the first place if not for being religion spreader????

[BuJaber]

Fuck you mark lynch would not have happened without me. Sure my vote wasn't on him at the end but that's only bevause ran started suggesting 15 v 4 v 2 which I thought was crazy so I got paranoid about him pushing for a mark lynch with me. But I was the one that got everyone to turn on mark.

[BuJaber]

Marshy > pidgey > x

Or neither of them > neither of them > neither of them

Decide
We can't have a hybrid. Either both or neither.

[BuJaber]

Sorry pidgey I guess I'm a bad player because I still think by play marshy was townier than you.

But that didn't matter day 5. On day 5 what made me lose it was people suggesting they don't lynch the religion spreaders all in a row.

Look I know I sounded like a stubborn idiot but my playstyle does not rely on singular reads as much as it relies on a PoE strategy of lynches. I tend to take my scumreads and categorize them into who I need to lynch first to solve the whole game as soon as possible.

That is why I insisted so hard on lynching koki on day 1, lynching mark or klazam on day 4, lynching you on day 5 for example. In my mind those were the best for PoE analysis of the remaining players. I was wrong about koki because his flip would have cleared dunk in my eyes.

Basically what I'm trying to say is it's not personal I just find the playstyles of you, jodax and koki scummy by nature. I designed my game plan based on what would happen if I'm right and if I'm wrong so that even if I mislynch I would be able to use the flip to lead me to the actual scum.

Also while I am playing I have to fake overconfidence in my reads. If they don't believe that I am sure of my reads their reactions will not be genuine.

As for the part where I may have crossed the line I'm sorry. I got really pissed of that people were accusing me after all the time we've spent in this game while at the same time I was sleep deprived and had to tend to my family. I wished I didn't even post in the first place because once I started I couldn't stop until you saw my perspective.

[BuJaber]

Lol at Elbirn not targeting Gamma.

And y'all wanted to lynch him.