VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[OnTheMark]

What’s up is you need to put the fourth member of the hood. It’s pretty straightforward.

[OnTheMark]

What’s up is you need to put the fourth member of the hood. It’s pretty straightforward.

But monte hall problem doesn't work in the way you brought it up.
Why do we need a 4th? I'm obv bias cause I've heard bees argument whats yours
~Maki

Because Bee said there was a fourth member when he said 25% scum.

This means that Bee took the argument that there is a scum in the hood at face value and refuses to put the fourth member.

Yes it does. There are 13 goats and 4 cars.
There are four doors, one for each member of the hood. Contestant picks one.
Then the host eliminates two doors and says they are a goat.

The answer is always choose the remaining door for greatest odds of finding a car.

https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introdu ... Or_No_Deal

Similar concept on deal or no deal means you always switch cases if the biggest prize is still around.

It’s counterintuitive but it is true.

[OnTheMark]

Are you arguing it’s an all town hood? It’s already demonstrated has less than a 21% chance of likelihood.

So it’s literally roughly 80% chance one of us is scum unless you’re seriously arguing that a four person

masonry

exists when Varsoon is on record explicitly saying he freaking hates innocents and that all roles were built before alignments.

And we know there is a scum in the game. That’s why I said best odds is to swap not a guarantee that there is a scum.

All said and done assuming two town in the hood the odds of the remaining two being town are damn near ridiculous. It is

possible

but considering how much is stacked against it you’re looking at just being a stick in the mud.

[OnTheMark]

That’s it I am just done.

You want to keep pretending you are right go ahead.

I will not spam the thread. Continue arguing your bullshit.

I will lynch mastina or Maid Cafe today your guys choice.

[OnTheMark]

Are you arguing it’s an all town hood? It’s already demonstrated has less than a 21% chance of likelihood.

So it’s literally roughly 80% chance one of us is scum unless you’re seriously arguing that a four person

masonry

exists when Varsoon is on record explicitly saying he freaking hates innocents and that all roles were built before alignments.

And we know there is a scum in the game. That’s why I said best odds is to swap not a guarantee that there is a scum.

All said and done assuming two town in the hood the odds of the remaining two being town are damn near ridiculous. It is

possible

but considering how much is stacked against it you’re looking at just being a stick in the mud.

Okay this argument is seriously bad
Like Varsoon did roles before alignments, but unless you wanna argue that Varsoon deliberately making someone scum for a not-all-town hood isn't non-randomness in alignment generation, your gonna have to realize what you're proposing is bastard modding.

It’s actually the other way around.

Beeboy/Maki are assuming an all town hood.

I am assuming randomly assigned roles.

[OnTheMark]

Oh yeah or random.

Forgot Random was in the hood.

Until they put the fourth or we get a scum we never lynch outside it.

[OnTheMark]

Either you are assuming an all town hood or scum know all four members. Period.

[OnTheMark]

Scum in a hood tell their buddies they are in a hood. Do you agree with this premise?

[OnTheMark]

Either you are assuming an all town hood or scum know all four members. Period.

I'm...not doing either math I don't know why you're getting so worked up when I'm just trying to have a conversation with you but I'll stop jeez
~Maki

Yes you are.

I don’t understand why everyone has to make logic so fucking hard.

[OnTheMark]

Scum in a hood tell their buddies they are in a hood. Do you agree with this premise?

Yes of course

Do you agree if scum is in the hood they would have told their buddies? And the only way scum don’t know all four members is if your hood is an all town masonry?

[OnTheMark]

Okay so you agree that unless you Mastina/Yume Random/Shiro and Player X are all town then scum know the players in the hood?

[OnTheMark]

How do you believe Varsoon made the roles?

[OnTheMark]

Do you think he made roles for each player then assigned alignments randomly?

Or do you think he made roles and assigned them randomly then made the colors work and then randomly assigned the alignments?

[OnTheMark]

Or do you think a third option?

How do you define roles are independent of alignment?

[OnTheMark]

How do you believe Varsoon made the roles?

It's...his game? It's magic game plus a upick he had to make the roles
~Maki
Pedit: I think he did Color>Ali>Roles

Finally, Flavor has no bearing on alignment. All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

From the opening. Your suggestion is impossible. Alignment is AFTER roles.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Unvote

Not what I am asking. @Maid Cafe

Do you agree roles alignment came after roles?

[OnTheMark]

How do you believe Varsoon made the roles?

It's...his game? It's magic game plus a upick he had to make the roles
~Maki
Pedit: I think he did Color>Ali>Roles

Finally, Flavor has no bearing on alignment. All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

From the opening. Your suggestion is impossible. Alignment is AFTER roles.

oh shit
~Maki

I guess by that oh shit you have stuff to consider and discuss with your hoodmates?

[OnTheMark]

Because I am

finally

getting somewhere with Maki and I want Maki to follow the conclusion and then hopefully break this open so we can generate a discussion built upon a mutual foundation upon which everyone is working towards a common goal.

In that we can establish a “most likely” scenario and force scum to make suboptimal plays. Since people want this to be a mechanics thing let’s not throw away what seems to be Mastina’s mistake in outing the hood and make lemonade.

[OnTheMark]

Premise: All roles were randomly assigned.
Assumption: there are four scum.
Assumption: All players equally likely to be scum.
Assumption: Then each player has a 4/17 odds of being scum or a 13/17 odds of being town. (I know I am town but for sake of argument)

[OnTheMark]

So far so good Maki?

[OnTheMark]

Okay then any two players have a 13/17 * 12/16 odds of both being town before the first post.
Then any three players have a 13/17 *12/16 *11/15 odds
Any four players have a 13/17 * 12/16 * 11/15 * 10/14 odds of all being town yes?

[OnTheMark]

Okay then any two players have a 13/17 * 12/16 odds of both being town before the first post.
Then any three players have a 13/17 *12/16 *11/15 odds
Any four players have a 13/17 * 12/16 * 11/15 * 10/14 odds of all being town yes?

So 13/17*12/16*11/15*10/14 is right around 30 percent random chance the hood is all town. Before taking in the problem of assuming two players are town.

Now the most likely answer is one of the players in your hood is scum?

[OnTheMark]

And what if I said that when the mana event occurred I was explicitly mod told that a TOWN neighborizer role existed and is colorless. That is literally my entire mana for the entire day. I cannot generate or receive mana any further from this post.

[OnTheMark]

Now will you fucking tell the goddamn VT who the fourth member of your goddamn hood is so this isn’t a waste?

[OnTheMark]

And what if I said that when the mana event occurred I was explicitly mod told that a TOWN neighborizer role existed and is colorless. That is literally my entire mana for the entire day. I cannot generate or receive mana any further this day from this post.

Pedit

[OnTheMark]

And the reasons I suspect Bronya and RR and anyone else talking hoods. It’s because I know a neighborizer exists and is town.

[OnTheMark]

And what if I said that when the mana event occurred I was explicitly mod told that a TOWN neighborizer role existed and is colorless. That is literally my entire mana for the entire day. I cannot generate or receive mana any further this day from this post.

Pedit

What mana event are you talking about?

-Cerb

pedit: There's nothing you can do to help me do what I want, this particular thing is gated by time spent in the phase.

When Alisae stole mana from mastina and/or made Chara double voter.

[OnTheMark]

@Bronya: Chronological days.

@OTM: How are you related to that event happening?

-Cerb

I am not. Coincidence. I had 3 mana at that point in time.

I now have none and cannot get any the rest of the day phase and barring a huge miracle will probably be powerless the rest of the game.

[OnTheMark]

@Bronya: Chronological days.

@OTM: How are you related to that event happening?

-Cerb

I am not. Coincidence. I had 3 mana at that point in time.

I now have none and cannot get any the rest of the day phase and barring a huge miracle will probably be powerless the rest of the game.

I am just quite frankly beyond pissed despite me pants dropping and saying there is a town neighborizer that is colorless that Maki and Beeboy refuse to out the fourth member.

Pedit: Just a sec Cerb

[OnTheMark]

K. So, knowing there is a town neighborizer, do you think it likely that neighborizer is connected to this hood that already exists, or do you think they're something completely different?

Also, why were you thinking Bronya was talking hoods? I don't remember them doing so? The only hood talk I had was with my homie random, because we always end up in hoods with one another in Varsoon games, and want to keep that up. So maybe you meant baku, not Bronya?

-Cerb

Considering mastina said it’s color based and beeboy/Martina never corrected that fact I am 99% sure it’s something different.

[OnTheMark]

so far; Skybird's scumread on me is my favourite. i didn't think anyone would actually be bold enough to call that a scum gambit, as though i

actually

believed someone would go along with that.

I did not read it as a joke.

U

seemed pretty serious to me. Did

u

not see the responses? Of course you did.

U

commented on them.

Emphasis mine.

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the fourth member of your hood that you share with Mastina/Yume/Random?

[OnTheMark]

Okay Beeboy

Let’s assume there are more than three people in the hood. You mastina and random and this other group of players. For sake of argument I will call them silent hood people.
Let’s assume random is scum.

Random would tell the scumbuddies who the silent people are yes?

What do we gain by having town know about the hood?
Also what reason do we have to believe "random" in this situation is scum beyond rand chance.

~B

I mean why is Random more likely to be scum then town in this hypothetical situation if Mastina and I are town?
Random always has a 25% of being scum regardless of anyone elses alignment in the hood.

~B

I think we have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand and it isnt info that is relevant to the town atm.

~B

@Cerb

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the

fourth

member of your hood that you share with

Mastina/Yume/Random

?

One of these things is not like the other
one of these things just doesn't belong
Can you tell me which thing is not like the other?
Before I finish this song.

Mastina+Yume is one slot. What is the fourth slot?

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the fourth member of your hood that you share with Mastina/Yume/Random?

that...hood doesn't exist
~Maki

I don’t know if the hood exists but I am 100% sure the neighborizer does. Varsoon told me it does.

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the fourth member of your hood that you share with Mastina/Yume/Random?

Also.

A colorless neighborizer means you're saying that a card exists, which a town slot currently has in their hand, that can neighborize people.

At least, that's what I take from that statement, because players can't be colorless.

-Cerb

Correct.

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the fourth member of your hood that you share with Mastina/Yume/Random?

that...hood doesn't exist
~Maki

I don’t know if the hood exists but I am 100% sure the neighborizer does. Varsoon told me it does.

there is no hood friend.

So then mastina is lying?

[OnTheMark]

My partner and I have a color PT. It's a large neighborhood. She has a theory that four more PTs exist for each color.

So there is no color PT?

@Maki

[OnTheMark]

Okay Beeboy

Let’s assume there are more than three people in the hood. You mastina and random and this other group of players. For sake of argument I will call them silent hood people.
Let’s assume random is scum.

Random would tell the scumbuddies who the silent people are yes?

What do we gain by having town know about the hood?
Also what reason do we have to believe "random" in this situation is scum beyond rand chance.

~B

I think we have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand and it isnt info that is relevant to the town atm.

~B

What’s up is you need to put the fourth member of the hood. It’s pretty straightforward.

But monte hall problem doesn't work in the way you brought it up.
Why do we need a 4th? I'm obv bias cause I've heard bees argument whats yours
~Maki

Then why didn’t you say so despite me asking like a billion times? And you kept saying “we gain by having town know about the hood”

So you weren’t in the hood and just fucking with me?

[OnTheMark]

idk what hood yall are talking about btw
~Maki

Oh there’s a colorless neighborizer guaranteed to be town.

Still don’t want to put the fourth member of your hood that you share with Mastina/Yume/Random?

that...hood doesn't exist
~Maki

I don’t know if the hood exists but I am 100% sure the neighborizer does. Varsoon told me it does.

there is no hood friend.

So then mastina is lying?

I wouldn't say she's lieing (because remember, Yume only said she was in a hood)
I think its more accurate to say you're making assumptions.

She was in a COLOR PT.

I was informed about colorless.

This cannot be the same thing.

[OnTheMark]

Oh damn it.

Lovely.

Thanks Beeboy.

Since there is another town neighborizer I want to know who is in that color PT before day ends.

[OnTheMark]

That is assuming my townread on mastina + Yume is right.

[OnTheMark]

Good fucking job you wasted 7 pages on argueing about waffles, pancakes, or french toast.
I have never seen such an achievement before in my life.

Jesus I thought I was counterclaiming for fucks sake.

[OnTheMark]

Mark, why did you unvote Dreamerz?

I'm very anti waffles. I like to squish scum into pancakes.

I unvoted Mastina+Yume because I was thinking I could have done a wagon on Random who I thought was in the hood flash wagon without having had to go through all that.

Quite honestly until Mastina+Yume out who is in the hood they are still fine for rope but they are no where near my top scumspecrs and at the time I thought I had scum dead to rights.

[OnTheMark]

@OTM: Again, pretty sure that the colorless bit just means that the mechanism by which the hood is created requires no colored mana...

@Purple Heart: No, they're still right that it's SIGNIFICANTLY more likely than not that there is scum in that hood, given that the alignment of those in the hood was functionally randomly selected, and if there is scum in the hood, they already know the membership, which means it's an area where scum likely have an advantage over town in terms of knowledge, which should be mitigated if at all possible by sharing the membership of the hood.

-Cerb

And mastina is based on a colored PT which would necessitate a colored mana. I am 100% sure it’s a different thing. I can’t copy paste but I am 100% sure that it is something else.

[OnTheMark]

Spoiler: Quote Wall where I thought Beeboy said they were in the hood

Okay Beeboy

Let’s assume there are more than three people in the hood. You mastina and random and this other group of players. For sake of argument I will call them silent hood people.
Let’s assume random is scum.

Random would tell the scumbuddies who the silent people are yes?

What do we gain by having town know about the hood?
Also what reason do we have to believe "random" in this situation is scum beyond rand chance.

~B

I think we have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand and it isnt info that is relevant to the town atm.

~B

What’s up is you need to put the fourth member of the hood. It’s pretty straightforward.

But monte hall problem doesn't work in the way you brought it up.
Why do we need a 4th? I'm obv bias cause I've heard bees argument whats yours
~Maki

Then why didn’t you say so despite me asking like a billion times? And you kept saying “we gain by having town know about the hood”

So you weren’t in the hood and just fucking with me?

[/quote]

@Cerb

[OnTheMark]

Okay Maki away if you need me let beeboy know

Not really I mean beeboy pretty much by acting as if he was in the hood or leaving the impression henceforth kinda fucked things sooooo :/

[OnTheMark]

I think we have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand and it isnt info that is relevant to the town atm.

~B

We have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand(omidget)

[OnTheMark]

Math, I have a request.
Can you let the thread rest for like a bit (atleast 2-3 days) and give the thread space to breath?
Please don't think of this as "I don't like you go away" but moreso as "I want you to give a chance for other people to talk without interupting them."

Like I feel like this main arguement is happening mostly because there is literally nothing else better to talk about so you have to talk about something no matter what it is.
And like, there are still some people we would like to hear from, some people who haven't fully caught up yet, etc.
Argueing about Waffles, Pancakes, and French Toast is nice an all, but people have to

read

that when they catch up (well, the trick is they don't, but some people (mastina) are going to have to put themselves through that)

So like, just give some time for people to talk atleast.

Spoiler: Also if we want talk about breakfest foods

French Toast by far btw. If you use a good Challah to make it with it turns out soooooooooo fucking good. Like whenever I made it it would suddenly become like a fucking cake and it was just so tasty.
But I can't eat that now because Paleo Diet
Luckily, I got a Waffle Maker recently and been trying to perfect a paleo waffle mix. Progress is in fact being made to make that go towards perfection.
Sadly I tried the same mix with Pancakes and it just didn't turn out as good

No.

Not when I have outed myself

Then I will not leave the thread for two to three days

Which then forces a replacement to come in.

[OnTheMark]

And yes I get scum can be in the hood
I want the hood composition to be known and public information

But 7-8 pages argueing about it is absurd.

Then don’t have people pretend to be in a hood they aren’t in and then not say they aren’t in the hood after like one page. And then ignore basic statistics.

[OnTheMark]

I think we have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand and it isnt info that is relevant to the town atm.

~B

We have no reason to believe scum is in the hood beyond rand(omidget)

Okay, i'm pretty damn sure they're just saying that there's no reason to think there are scum in that hood beyond rand(om) alignment distribution.

-Cerb

Then why the fuck did they just not say they aren’t in a good and instead argue the merits of what is beneficial for town like they could out it?

[OnTheMark]

Math, I have a request.
Can you let the thread rest for like a bit (atleast 2-3 days) and give the thread space to breath?
Please don't think of this as "I don't like you go away" but moreso as "I want you to give a chance for other people to talk without interupting them."

Like I feel like this main arguement is happening mostly because there is literally nothing else better to talk about so you have to talk about something no matter what it is.
And like, there are still some people we would like to hear from, some people who haven't fully caught up yet, etc.
Argueing about Waffles, Pancakes, and French Toast is nice an all, but people have to

read

that when they catch up (well, the trick is they don't, but some people (mastina) are going to have to put themselves through that)

So like, just give some time for people to talk atleast.

Spoiler: Also if we want talk about breakfest foods

French Toast by far btw. If you use a good Challah to make it with it turns out soooooooooo fucking good. Like whenever I made it it would suddenly become like a fucking cake and it was just so tasty.
But I can't eat that now because Paleo Diet
Luckily, I got a Waffle Maker recently and been trying to perfect a paleo waffle mix. Progress is in fact being made to make that go towards perfection.
Sadly I tried the same mix with Pancakes and it just didn't turn out as good

No.

Not when I have outed myself

Then I will not leave the thread for two to three days

Which then forces a replacement to come in.

I'm not asking you to leave the game and be replaced.
Post when Varsoon prods you again

All I am asking for you is to just take a break from the game and let the thread breathe for a bit.
Because right now not a lot of people are really talking and/or getting a chance to voice their opinions because you're essentially making the thread all about yourself and interupting people who try.
And that is an environment that induces A. Lots of spam B. Lots of frustration towards you and C. Less contribution.

That's all :/

When people post bullshit and no one stops it someone has to.

And no one has been stopping the bullshit since the damn opening of the day.

[OnTheMark]

It should not take 7 pages to get simple stats across. That isn’t my fault.

The real time posting is to ensure we get scum.

If you’re sure that there is scum in the hood it was worth it.

The only reason it is that painful is because I have to keep fighting so truth wins.

If you can promise me we find the scum in that hood today I will go away til Monday night.

[OnTheMark]

If the thread is going to go on with
“I need mana because I am so goddamn important” instead of scumhunting

I will do everything in my power to ensure scumhunting happens.

[OnTheMark]

@Taly

You forgot that a town neighborizer that makes a different hood also exists. Making the odds of Shining Dreamers, Skybird, or Ico scum damn near 100 percent.

Yeah yeah I am hopping out of the thread now just making sure me being quiet doesn’t fuck us over. And I didn’t claim my informedness just to have it forgotten.

[OnTheMark]

@Titus/Kiana
Because the odds of scum in the hood is the problem, not mastina/yume.
Based on their claim it is color based.
If mastina claimed to create it I would agree but that’s not the claim.

Jekdkeiwndn djskekeosnsj
*pops out of thread and goes to work before being accused of taking it over again*

[OnTheMark]

And I doubt that Creature set is town.

Okay for realz leaving now sorry.

[OnTheMark]

Yeah, we're bolting on this SD wagon. We don't think it's pushed by any wolves but we both have the creeps. I'm concerned because my scumreads aren't attempting a counterpush or bussing. Kiana just gets a bad gut feeling.

UNVOTE: SD

Yay! Heat mapping!

Please heat map Skybird and Ico pre and post hood claim.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

What the hell? If I am not posting a pipe dream is just as reasonable as anything else.

[OnTheMark]

See my imgur picture.

Doesn’t have to be as detailed as mine but just look over posts and get a general feel who attacks who, who defends who, and who makes posts around the same time as those attacks and defenses.

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: OntheMark

I don't necessarily think he's scum but I see his predictable pattern. He might as well say, scum if you have more powers or influence than me. :/ I just am annoyed. I'll probably move this later.

We are thinking about returning to Micc. We both agree that can be scum.

I has reasons.

......

I just can’t explain them.

[OnTheMark]

I like how I've used like 50 posts to ask for mana and no one called me out on it.

~B

Lol and that is why Skybird is scum.

Please reread my points on that.

[OnTheMark]

2309: I feel like the confirmation of being in a hood doesn't do that much because as you said Skybird outed it. btw Skybird outing it makes me feel better about her.

Mastina outed it.
Skybird confirmed it.

[OnTheMark]

@Taly My response was to verify facts.

I am giving you facts.

Either there is a colorless neighborizer that is aligned with town or I am lying to you. Those are facts.

[OnTheMark]

Can we like not?

Seriously I get yelled at for asking for clarity so let’s NOT have another discussion where people ignore the original points and nitpick to suit their agendas.

We know what Creature is saying please move on.

[OnTheMark]

cerb why are you unnecessarily ripping into creature over semantics -_-

i ask because i don't see any intention behind it other than to post "content"

Venmar, I don't need to "pretend" to post content.

I'm ripping into him because of the flippant response he gave to my request for clarification. It annoyed me, and it was a shitty thing to do.

-Cerb

Assume it’s shitty.

Is it alignment indicative?

If not talk with him post game.

Otherwise it’s unwanted coaching which generally only pisses the person off.

[OnTheMark]

back to content

@Mark,

Kiana townreads your frustration. I think it's self aggrandizing frustration so you don't have to put in the work to clarify your thoughts so either a) you can blame others for not listening or b) you can hide behind your obtuseness as scum. You do this repeatedly on MS game after game and wonder why no one listens. You don't take the time to listen to each person's goal in the thread and think more words solves the problem.

I would have given up on you ages ago but Kiana really thinks you're town. (I think this is the Chara question you want answered.)

I still have not seen you attempt a readwall like I requested.

You want me to engage your Skybird thoughts but all your theories are gibberish because they are not concise. My request is my ability to try and engage you.

Honestly I'm kinda with this, it's not scummy yet from OTM but he was making such a big stink about the readwall request when it was imo really simple

It’s simple TO YOU.

If I said for you to program an A* algorithm in C# have it spit out the lowest cost grid in less than a second given a set of sample grids and to have the results spit out in less than a second and have the grid be a variable command prompt along with variable weights.

And have you a day to program this task and no copy paste and no pathing libraries.

To ME that is simple. To most everyone here they would say it isn’t.

To me a readwall is insanely difficult because I have too many theories. When the game narrows this will be simpler.

[OnTheMark]

Look
Here is my stance on this
Are we doing Micc or mastina?
I am okay with either one imo

Look
Here is my stance on this
Are we doing Skybird or RR?
I am okay with either one imo

[OnTheMark]

Look
Here is my stance on this
Are we doing Micc or mastina?
I am okay with either one imo

Look
Here is my stance on this
Are we doing Skybird or RR?
I am okay with either one imo

ILU OTM.

-Cerb

Love you like a brother from another mother but I think you’re a scumster.

Care to explain why in protomen blitz you had day one reads but not here?
viewtopic.php?p=9727598#p9727598

And don’t say you don’t do day one reads again

That was your most recent game.

[OnTheMark]

Eh I'm bored I'll mention a thing

Btw, I got a PM telling me my vote was stolen

WHY HAVEN'T YOU VOTED SOMEONE TO PROVE THIS.

He said he got it back. Please verify before holding shit like this otherwise you’re spamming yourself when you claim to want to stop it.

[OnTheMark]

It matters that your hydra had a read and pushed it.

Here you aren’t. It is a stark difference.

Protomen you just claimed shit. Here you don’t.

Another stark difference.

I am asking why you don’t have reads. Not what the reason you had reads that game was.

[OnTheMark]

All caught up.
Current readlist:
1 Chara
2

Taly Alisae

Purple Heart
3 SnarkySnowman
4 OnTheMark
5 Creature
5 Reasonably Rational (Hydra: Cerberus v666 & Drixx)
5 Maid Cafe (Hydra: Maki & Beeboy)
8 Bronya Zaychik (Hydra: Titus & Kiana Kaslana)
9 Shining Dreamers (Hydra: Yume & Mastina)
10 Iconeum
10 Micc
12 Baku and Munna (Hydra: randomidget & Shiro)
13 Venmar
14

Tibor and Lumia (Hydra: brassherald &

Gamma Emerald)
14 Skybird

. Dunnstral is not in this game for all practical purposes.

I'm not sure what to make of the wagon on Dreamers. For one thing, Mastina doesn't get wagoned (or rather bussed) when scum, so if that ever flips scum then everyone on it is likely Town.

However, if Dreamers is Town I can see scum hopping on the wagon there, so 2-3 scums are on it, and my personal guess would be Champion of the Parish (whoever controls that vote) > Venmar >> Bronya

It's not uncommon that Ali and Yume would go head to head as Town. In fact, I used this tell to deduce they were both scum in the game Ali linked (because he defended her on D1 which seemed rather odd tom me).

I also keep second guessing myself about Creature whenever he disappears, but when he does post it looks like Town him alright.

Titus/Kiana is a mix of good & bad, but the good is relatively more, so I still have a slight town lean there to an extent.

Personally I would rather flip Sky or Tibor, but will also take Venmar or Baku. I won't be fighting against any of Dunn/Icon/Micc/Shining but I won't be voting them myself (They're all more or less null). I

will

oppose lynches on the tip 5 (err.. 7, but there are 3 tied at 5th place currently).

VOTE: Skybird

P-edit: SHIT! It looks like you guys posted a new page already!

Yes he has.

Seriously please Purple Heart take a breather if you need it.

[OnTheMark]

Honestly his three questions were crap if true.

Paraphrased question 1:
Can anyone gain mana not a part of their role?
A gain of -X is still a gain, in the literal sense
Or if Alisae is scum and the X is factional then already proven.

Paraphrased question 2: is there a Miller?
Chara already rescinded so regardless the odds of another Miller having not claimed are close to nil

Paraphrased question 3: Do scum have factional abilities?
Alignments were after roles so it is 100% necessary for this unless Varsoon handpicked scum. Which since assuming random probably not.

@RR Assume your claim is true:
What categories are there?

[OnTheMark]

I just feel like this is a big waste of time. I do not see this going well.

VOTE: Unvote

That being said I am unvoting RR.

I do not trust you. Others do.

At this point no one is willing to discuss reads.

This mechanics stuff is stopping hunting.

I wish I could explain how it needs to stop.

[OnTheMark]

What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.

...

-Cerb

Drizzle has spent nearly all of his posts on Chara’s Miller claim which is mechanics.

Chara is town.

Move on. Chara is universally townread and not even close to being considered and if Chara was that would be silly.

[OnTheMark]

What? We spent like 2 posts on mechanics, and the rest of the time has been us exploring the Chara situation.

...

-Cerb

Drixx has spent nearly all of his posts on Chara’s Miller claim which is mechanics.

Chara is town.

Move on. Chara is universally townread and not even close to being considered and if Chara was that would be silly.

Pedit sorry Drixx my phone now calls you Drizzle

[OnTheMark]

No. I do not.

However as scum you can easily tell the truth to suit a nefarious purpose or be some kind of ascetic or immune to lie detection. Or you can ask inane questions and pretend they came before. An example is with Chara. If Drixx asked the question before Chara rescinded why didn’t he post? Secondly you could have asked that question as scum for the cred.

The only thing a lie detect does if SS is town is confirm the information. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[OnTheMark]

That won’t help.
:/

I feel like every time I ask a question you intentionally answer a different one or say something I didn’t ask.

I am just going to go.

Talking with you I feel is fruitless.

[OnTheMark]

See I think I finally realized why I am having a hard time with RR read on the drive home.

I feel like to excuse the analogy RR is kinda like an infomercial. Like he’s saying things in order for me to buy into him being town.

Like here have a lie detect check. So? He could have known that was in the game before hand. Furthermore even if that stemmed is the truth it doesn’t make it not premeditated on his part.

Like for a buy it now ad on TV. They have testimonials and show the product off. Like “look at all these customers satisfied by the Snuggie. It can’t be wrong.” That’s what I feel RR is doing. I just don’t know how to explain a feeling.

[OnTheMark]

And Taly Skybird did not out the hood. Skybird confirmed it.

Any competent scum would tell Skybird to do that for cred. The outing imho is NAI at best and scummy at worst.

[OnTheMark]

The information would be outed anyway. A good scum gets out in front of it.

I would have been much more impressed if she did it immediately after.

[OnTheMark]

Playing scum is about controlling perception.
Take a look at my scum meta in Shadowrun.

I controlled the perception.

Shadowrun >> Scum doesn’t full claim d1. Except I did to assure JaeReed I was town and then people started dropping pants. Scum doesn’t invent a code so “scum” don’t know about things. Except I did so I never had to worry about cross docs. Scum wouldn’t tell the truth about mechanics. Except I did because it resulted in mislynches when the group perception was bad.

Anytime someone says scum wouldn’t do this my alarm bells go up to 50.

[OnTheMark]

Along those lines I would like to know is
Did anyone have flavor and/or role information for someone besides themselves or someone of the same alignment before 5 minutes into D1 and after the distribution of role PMs?

[OnTheMark]

That question may require smoothing since it’s a compound question.

Another good one would be did scum choose anything during pregame?

So then when we get a scum flip is there some choice we can analyze.

[OnTheMark]

If he is, the proper thing though is to force him to eliminate paranoia and see how town roles interact. For instance, based on the amount of double voting perhaps scum have a lynchproof player or there is a lynchproof mechanic.

I fought RR's D1 lynch because I felt his town utility was OP. He has that feature. Look at that perspective.

~Titus

I could see that if roles were alignment dependent.

But they aren’t.

And the key problem is no person can eliminate paranoia because of it.

Sure he can do what I say, but is it what I need? And no one can force powers to be used a certain way. If someone could scum would be two steps ahead. That’s the issue I have. Cerb called it a smoking gun. I just don’t see it.

[OnTheMark]

Hell I am damn near close to vanilla with the sheer luck I would have to have to get mana and no I am not sharing what. So that means scum will keep me alive which means I have to figure out whether it’s a car salesman or my best friend.

[OnTheMark]

So, Venmar, why now and not earlier?

-Cerb

because it's silly now

eh i think im going to change my vote to the guy that has been all voice and... that's it

vote: reasonably rational

BUT CAN I INTEREST YOU
IN MICC?

for 2 anime coins, maybe

Reasonably Rational will never get majority.

I agree with the read but it’s a horrible vote.

You and I will never outspeak Cerb. Unless someone well liked and respected hops on the wagon is done, unfortunately.

Plus I have an ace up my sleeve! Though mastina slot is already on the wagon! But mastina head probably isn't the one that placed the vote. :p

-Cerb

You literally can’t. There is no role that provides an ace up the sleeve. It’s why I don’t give a shit about what people claim. There is no deck or rational basis. Roles are not alignment indicative.

Hell you could be a scum with what would be the scum equivalent of an IC and just claim IC. Until and unless a moderator confirms someone as town I don’t give a monkey’s butt what you claim I don’t care about mechanics in terms of alignment. So no you don’t have an ace and if you believe you do save it don’t fucking talk about it now.

\Actually, I think I might be lynchable today, if I didn't speak again. I think total number of players-expressed townreads=lynch threshold right now, but just barely.

And sure, i know I don't have an actual card up my sleeve, but it's fun to act like I do!

Can we do something productive? I feel like nothing productive is really happening. :-/ And yes, I'm part of the problem right now, but I don't really feel like putting the thought into initiating something, but I'm okay with reacting to stuff.

-Cerb

Card up your sleeve wrong phrase sorry.

[OnTheMark]

At the risk of being accused of bloating the post count I am going to try something again — being funny

Now I really want to know this Kiana. Because Titus looked at Unity and went “Nope” (excuse the paraphrase any rules lawyers and otherwise in the thread.)

Let's make like Dijkstra's and find the shortest path between you and me and a damn good joke or at least a drink while we try.

[OnTheMark]

So let’s find the shortest path between me and some rose tinted glasses. Find me some damn good glasses for RR mine be broken.

[OnTheMark]

Btw, I got a PM telling me my vote was stolen

And these were his FIRST posts.

See that is the thing.

I actually believe it. But I need you to have faith.

So I make you a deal Alisae — You don’t attack A50 I don’t attack RR until tomorrow. Give it a game day.

[OnTheMark]

Or Taly or whichever head you are.
Sorry that avvy makes me think of e.

[OnTheMark]

That is 100% why I think scum did it.

I have no counter to that. It just feels so dumb to lie about.

Imagine if A50 was lying and scum.

There is no way he says he has his vote back. It’s an equally silly scum move. In your opinion it outs him. Assume he has at least three scum buddies they’d have to agree to rescinding it which would confirm Snarky Snowman in the process as town.

Furthermore if his vote wasn’t genuinely lost why call attention to it? He could have easily held it back and claimed he got it back the next day.

In other words I find the idea A50 is lying about it so painfully completely and wholly ridiculous and a problem Snarky can take care of that A50 is town.

Your points are valid I just don’t see anyone scum claiming that hard D1.

In the case of Snark scum too we get a 1v1

I think A50 resolves itself.

If A50 is scum and scum agreed with that silly plan we are gonna win anyway lol.

[OnTheMark]

Now if you take a player who, if we take your argument, has no charisma, and not always the best idea at mechanics. Scum then get a free mislynch.

I can’t believe I am about to say this...It’s almost too silly to be scum.

[OnTheMark]

I think A50’s is the better of the two.

Cerb is almost telling the truth as either alignment.

However if Almost was lying, the heat mapping and dynamics off that are huge.

[OnTheMark]

Similarly if A50 is telling the truth then scum tried to set up A50 as a mislynch and we are looking for a scumteam that knows a lot about the mechanics and knows how to manipulate the common vote length.

[OnTheMark]

Omg Cerb agrees...I think my rose colored glasses have a wire frame.

And sorry if my attempt at humor fell flat

My joke servos are on infinite delay from Amazon where my AI lives.

[OnTheMark]

I think A50’s is the better of the two.

Cerb is almost telling the truth as either alignment.

However if Almost was lying, the heat mapping and dynamics off that are huge.

*nods* You're probably right. I can't wait until the day I have the cajones to lie in the face of a lie detector because I've developed a reputation such that people won't bother wasting lie detect attempts on statements I make.

-Cerb

Yeah...That...would take a lot...of b....ravery

Stop destroying my frame dammit *nervous laughter *

[OnTheMark]

It is a silly thing that doesn't get them any real towncred, since they didn't prove it, and legitimately made them more suspicious for that same reason.

See
I think A50 still does this even considering this :/

And Cerb and I think you’re wrong so let’s use the check on A50 and move on.

[OnTheMark]

List of players strike through means not lynching them for whatever reason

Iconeum

in the hood Alisae says no I don’t get why but I don’t want the rabbit hole again

OnTheMark

like omg no

Shining Dreamers (Hydra: Yume & Mastina)

heebie jeebies

Chara

very likely town
Baku and Munna (Hydra: Randomidget & Shiro)

Maid Cafe (Hydra: Maki & Beeboy)

because reasons I am lazy if anyone is reading this I will put more reasons later

Creature

Bronya Zaychik (Hydra: Titus & Kiana Kaslana)

Almost50

Reasonably Rational (Hydra: Cerberus v666 & Drixx)

SnarkySnowman

Gamma Emerald Tibor and Lumia

Purple Heart (Hydra: Alisae & Taly)Alisae Taly

Skybird

oh how I wish Sky was a thing
Micc
Venmar
Dunnstral

VOTE: randomidget
World 42

[OnTheMark]

I scumread Icon I don't think its an all town hood I think his play is scummy.

But you said we’re not lynching in the hood earlier and if we are it reopens Skybird and that discussion thread. We’d be divided. I don’t see myself voting anyone but Skybird if Sky is an option.

[OnTheMark]

Whoops forgot to strike RR sorry

[OnTheMark]

Mastina can I ask a small favor before you try to catch up?

[OnTheMark]

Cerb I am disappointed. Gambler’s fallacy from you?

Which alignment do you expect Cerb to be when you are disappointed in him?

Town.
As scum I was actually pretty impressed with him.

[OnTheMark]

Almost50; what do you think about Skybird outing the hood, and the Shining Dreamers wagon?

Sky is at the bottom of my readlist, so I'd say she outing the hood was ill-intended, but to what purpose? I have no idea.

To reiterate, scum do have day chat as per the rules, so if Sky intended to expose the hood to her team she would have done it in their PT.. UNLESS SHE'S A TRAITOR with no access to the Scum PT!! (Note: I don't recall Varsoon ever using a Traitor though, but I've seen the Traitor in the Real Folks Blues 1st run doing it)

As for Dreamers, I'm undecided on their alignment, but the push on them seems unnatural, and I don't think Town would have to use extra voting abilities to get a lynch through on D1, which is why I'm having Dreamers as a town lean (that and the Yume AtE, but I admit I have a soft spot for Yume's AtE unlike my usual stiff self).

...Again Sky didn’t out the hood
Mastina did and sky confirmed it.

[OnTheMark]

Can you please interact real time Mastina?

[OnTheMark]

I'm disliking the read evolution of Shining D on myself. It started with a strong townread before I even posted, and switched to scumread once I started posting. There is no indication that anything changed, and I don't believe I've done anything spectacular to make them townreading me again yet I'm way up on the readlist they posted.

There's also very little effort from Shining D in the PT to sort Sky and myself out.

VOTE: shining D

Buddying Sky in PT is a big word for it. I tried to allign all of our reads and votes to see what would happen.
What I said about Shining D read evolution is my contribution to the case on the slot.

I suppose Sky could confirm what i'm saying about said evolution because that information is not available here...

Everyone did...

Please get facts straight.

Sleepy time for Mark

[OnTheMark]

A50 that's a bad lie detect for so many reasons.... Like it's a silly thing to lie about and doesn't mean a lot to me.....

Why is it a bad lie detect?
Explain it to me like I am 5.

[OnTheMark]

I agree it IS a silly thing to lie about but we need Alisae to move on from this so....

[OnTheMark]

Hi Nancy! Hello from Roundie

[OnTheMark]

Anyone get the feeling Snowman can’t lie detect or is a scum lie detector?

[OnTheMark]

Link?

From what I know of Zaychik’s it only applies in business settings and has different requirements outside of mafia
#PleaseTeachMe

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... nterprises

Okay so this is actually like a mafia post what do you make of Snarky saying the A50 request is silly after asking our opinion.

[OnTheMark]

*sniff*

Guilty as charged on the googling but I do actually learn about IIS stuff every week so it was a fun find.

And lol I haven’t been in college in a looooong time. I highly doubt I could bot anything smart enough. Mafia is too complex. I am much better at fooling algorithms than making them. Could program a heat map but I think at some point it’s not Mafia anymore if I do. Some people have tried but their bots don’t catch me yet. When their bots do I might consider it.

Now I believe you were going to answer my question about Snarky?

Pedit: why not just ask if third parties exist? It isn’t alignment indicative and it just asks about existence.

[OnTheMark]

The fact you thought the answer would be no, seems to imply that you don’t want to ask or feel it’s a wasted question.

[OnTheMark]

Okay so this is actually like a mafia post what do you make of Snarky saying the A50 request is silly after asking our opinion.

Okay I just saw this after you reminded me. I think Snarky's lie detect is limited, a lot more so than RR's questions about the game, so it's actually truly a waste of a lie detect to check something so trivial as a vote thief on A50. So, I agree.

We must first establish the parameters of SS's lie detect, then we can use it to its maximum potential. I don't think we even know how limited his lie detects are yet. If so, please remind me

~Kiana

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

[OnTheMark]

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

No I don't think it's a good use of the lie detect but it appears to be the best option we have today(?) to prevent wastage(?)

If RR's question regarding Vote Thief being needed for mana gain returns true, then the A50 turns to a useless question. Why would someone steal a vote from A50? Because A50 was absent and would be unlikely to use his vote meaningfully, or even notice the vote removal (though Varsoon probably issues a PM alert). Maybe the thief had something to gain from removing A50's vote, such as mana or an extra vote. RR's role can figure this out. We don't need to blow a 1-shot-per-day Lie Detect on that.

So I agree with Snarky that it is actually pretty bad use. I don't know if we can find a better one but if we can, we should.

~Kiana

I believe unless RR’s mana question for gain is flagged perfectly it will likely hit me. I would rather lie detect A50 to be safe.

[OnTheMark]

I kinda wanna hear why Snarky says it’s bad.

It’s suspicious AF to just say it’s bad without reasons.

[OnTheMark]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

Those points I agree with but the thread doesn’t. Confirming a vote thief seems important because then we can find their motivations by whose votes they steal.

[OnTheMark]

My mana generation is hard, yes.
However ...<redacted> might count as mana gain.

Without hinting at <redacted> I can’t help your question.

So I would rather that not be asked.

[OnTheMark]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

Those points I agree with but the thread doesn’t. Confirming a vote thief seems important because then we can find their motivations by whose votes they steal.

That's not true.

I'm sure that if we receive multiple reports of alleged vote-thievery, then we can be sure that there is a sneaky one in our midst!

~Kiana

*dies a bit inside*

A little faith please?

I would rather confirm Snarky as having what he claimed and a set of events rather than just believing them. Plus it gives a lot of hard-info roles for scum to deal with and narrows scum operation greatly.

[OnTheMark]

My mana generation is hard, yes.
However ...<redacted> might count as mana gain.

Without hinting at <redacted> I can’t help your question.

So I would rather that not be asked.

Does your mana gain involve the stealing of votes or the removal of another player's votes?

Yes/No.

If you deal with programmable logic, you should not be having problems with these kinds of issues.

~Kiana

No. But I could still flag as mana gain. I like literally don’t know how to help clarify this. I think that question is crap.

And I would really not want day to drag on simply for more questions.

I cannot explain why.

[OnTheMark]

It is of course always Cerb’s choice but it is my responsibility to prevent misleading information from fueling mechanically driven players thoughts.

[OnTheMark]

I have to go to work.

[OnTheMark]

You’re both confusing the cause and results.

A person can gain things without being the cause of the action in question.

For example if someone gains mana when Varsoon posts a VC. They aren’t the CAUSE.

In other words I guess there is a role that gains mana when
Is different than I guess there is a role that gains mana by

[OnTheMark]

You’re both confusing the cause and results.

A person can gain things without being the cause of the action in question.

For example if someone gains mana when Varsoon posts a VC. They aren’t the CAUSE.

In other words I guess there is a role that gains mana when
Is different than I guess there is a role that gains mana by

Really? The difference between "by" and "when" was the "perfect phrasing" needed?

-Cerb

That’s part of it. I can’t write it correctly while at work. It’s more if you’re going to insist on it I have to pull a Titus.

[OnTheMark]

So, I was thinking.

I'm almost certain that color PT is for people who are W and W/X(short version being because Micc/Nancy Drew was not named as being part of that PT, and when Alisae/PH gave an elemental to someone, it was green aligned, meaning that of the two most likely color PT options, Green and White, White is the only reasonable option).

Which means that the Champion/Crusade are controlled by either Skybird or Icon.

Is it more likely that Skybird deliberately split her vote from her creature, or that Icon is piling as much pressure as he can on SD?

Do note this is all speculation.

-Cerb

What is gained from this speculation?

And I believe you are wrong for all that matters. Someone else I think is Champion/Crusade not saying who but I will say it isn’t me.

[OnTheMark]

Man I wish I was a vig.

The amount of absolutely wrong mechanics, assumptions, and crap on these few pages is staggering.

Varsoon May I please be a vig? Pretty please[/v]

[OnTheMark]

Man I wish I was a vig.

The amount of absolutely wrong mechanics, assumptions, and crap on these few pages is staggering.

Varsoon May I please be a vig? Pretty please

Oh right someone else made a wish and got turned down *sniffles*

Crap

[OnTheMark]

Varsoon, I wish that our slot wins the game.

Kiana that was a joke

[OnTheMark]

also chara is scum caught in a gambit
skybird is lynch bait and ico possibly is as well but i'm not sure yet

OK wow this is horrible, this feels calculated

that just isnt me as scum tho

Oh yeah or random.

Forgot Random was in the hood.

Until they put the fourth or we get a scum we never lynch outside it.

im not in the hood...

We have two people claiming you're in the hood. Wanna think that over a bit?

No. Someone used shorthand for random numbers and I took it to be randomidget.

[OnTheMark]

Alisae/Taly/Bee

What if I said you guys + Shining Dreamers need to form a block?

[OnTheMark]

SD isn't town reading me this game lmao and I've been calling them town for awhile.

~B

Not what I asked.

If I could get Mastina and Yume to work with you two, could you block it up with her and Yume?

Alisae/Taly dame thing.

[OnTheMark]

Can you just give me your blind faith? <3


~B

I mean I can
But I feel like this is an excuse for you to be lazy and your explanations are my catnip.

And no I am not going to bloc with mastina I want mastina to

But I will bloc with Bee

What if I said they were my top town read? Like as part of how Town blocks work if one person doesn’t want another person lynched they don’t get lynched yeah?

[OnTheMark]

Can you just give me your blind faith? <3


~B

I mean I can
But I feel like this is an excuse for you to be lazy and your explanations are my catnip.

And no I am not going to bloc with mastina I want mastina to

But I will bloc with Bee

I am getting my reads through 3rd party tools so I can't really explain them

But on a serious note I'll talk them out on friday once I am done with my test.
Until then I'd rather not get into it.

~B

What if I said I could make almost any third party tool think I am any alignment I wanted?

Please disregard coding. It can’t read minds or role PMs.

[OnTheMark]

Now look.

I know you guys don’t trust each other but I am begging here.

Work with Mastina + Yume or at least pretend to. Mastina is one of those people if backed into a corner she yells and flails hard as either alignment making reads even harder. Take a look at Beneath the Mask when Drixx thought she was scum and convinced me. Look at how that turned out. The only reason we won was the rest of town was good. Give Mastina time please Alisae/Taly.

[OnTheMark]

I don’t wish to discount your feelings but like just please pretend?

I really don’t want to have to try to stop an SD lynch all day? Can you just pretend like me and RR?

[OnTheMark]

3rd is also wrong I was counterclaiming the idea the hood was all town and there was a scum in it. It wasn’t a counterclaim of Mastina.

[OnTheMark]

And on point 6 I haven’t done a read wall in multiple theme games. Lolz.

[OnTheMark]

The games I am more successful on is when I don’t read wall lol.

Like legit turbos and mashes

Got like 8 in a row on a mash and both scum in a turbo.

[OnTheMark]

Random theory which I will immediately ignore because I promised:

RR Bronya Purple Heart Skybird

No lookie here back to regular programming...

[OnTheMark]

3rd is also wrong I was counterclaiming the idea the hood was all town and there was a scum in it. It wasn’t a counterclaim of Mastina.

who acc claimed it was all town?

People refusing to make the lynch a player in the hood.

[OnTheMark]

@Alisae/Taly that’s a towntell
If nancy was scum she’d have just asked her buddies.

[OnTheMark]

Nah...nancy is a good player from MU. Nancy would have delayed entrance til reading some sorta notes.

nancy is town.

[OnTheMark]

You are determined to derail me from my scumreads :/

You’re determined to push my townreads.

[OnTheMark]

A50 that's a bad lie detect for so many reasons.... Like it's a silly thing to lie about and doesn't mean a lot to me.....

However, it seems there are a couple of people who think otherwise. Like, I don't want to

tell

you what to do with your role, but I'm legit pissed at Ali for coming up with this shit.

I feel like Almost50 is a bit more indignant as town so this is probably town him? This is a newer tell based on newer meta and has not been proofed against older games.

Plus I am sketched out by how easily Alisae/Taly dropped the A50 attack when it was determined that the lie detect would resolve that. Seems like part of a master plan to buddy (or that thing I can’t say) with Cerb.

[OnTheMark]

Yes I am scum with 13 buddies! Congrats you figured it out. /sarcasm

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Purple Heart

I wanna see something.

[OnTheMark]

Oh and FYI I think those Creatures belong to scum.

The white ones.

Just a hunch.

[OnTheMark]

Oh and FYI I think those Creatures belong to scum.

The white ones.

Just a hunch.

Not impossible, but likely a misplay if true.

Unless they had reason to believe ownership could be revealed somehow. The first creature came into play before Micc/Nancys ability to gift a creature was known, so if scum, they made a mistake imo, or suspected creatures could be tied to owners easily enough to justify using their creatures and spells sure optimally.

Since someone brought this up publicly(much easier to get potential scum to admit a connection to something if they think it gets people to town read them), I have to ask:

Alisae, why did you give Chara that creature? Chara in particular. The real reason.

-Cerb

Interesting. Elaborate on the mistake further please.

[OnTheMark]

From how I see it, it means if Alisae is scum it isn’t with Micc/Nancy. It also to me means the Creature owner if scum, is not aligned with Micc/Nancy.

Furthermore Alisae supposedly copied a role and stole mana. How would that apply to cards?

[OnTheMark]

Apparently, the Squirrel creature type only became such a big staple of Magic because the head of the art department didn't know how to play Magic.

This is an amazing piece of trivia.

Also, I <3 Squirrels.

-Cerb

I love the art department. Squirrel decks are okay but the art is where it’s at.

[OnTheMark]

@Skybird yes. Control decks very typically remove Creatures and is a good combat to an aggrieved deck.

[OnTheMark]

I would think removal of Creatures is town aligned. But what do I know?

[OnTheMark]

That burns the Creatures though and then town can prepare for that.

It would be a mistake to not play them here.

@Cerb I think there is something at play with my abilities I can’t say. I find that if Alisae and Nancy were scum together there is a huge misstep.

[OnTheMark]

From how I see it, it means if Alisae is scum it isn’t with Micc/Nancy. It also to me means the Creature owner if scum, is not aligned with Micc/Nancy.

Furthermore Alisae supposedly copied a role and stole mana. How would that apply to cards?

It doesn't.

Exactly my point.
The creatures are creature cards.

So the voting can’t be duplicated from what I see.

So no “mistake” exists.

[OnTheMark]

Yeah but you were saying the creature person made a mistake by not waiting on Alisae yeah?

[OnTheMark]

So I fail to see the “mistake”

So just moving on. Chalking it up in the wtf posts from Cerb.

[OnTheMark]

Like, I've seen that exact same stunt before from town.
I agree its not a town motivated move
But at the same time I don't think wolves in general claim miller then retract.

I am giving you a bit of a side eye for that.

You know of at least one occurrence where that has happened and scum won.

[OnTheMark]

I don’t think Chara is doing it here but I really don’t think that town!Alisae discounts it so quickly.

[OnTheMark]

You claimed Miller. Your replacement rescinded.

[OnTheMark]

Nah.

I am gonna enjoy dinner.

Still waiting to see if something happens.

[OnTheMark]

@Alisae

Would you say Titus votes well?

[OnTheMark]

Would you be curious if Titus got another vote what would happen?

[OnTheMark]

Nope I don’t I was gonna suggest Nancy give it to Titus.

If I had an extra vote to give I am not sure where I would put it.

[OnTheMark]

Then exclude me from it. I don’t want the extra vote.

[OnTheMark]

Me, RR, Alisae, Dunnstral, MathBlade, Venmar, Bronya Zaychik
(I am explicitly leaving chara out since we shouldn't stack votes openly)

There roll a dice in that pool take out anyone you don't like but keep the pool big.
Roughly what I think we should do if we are making suggestions.

~B

Take me out please.
Everyone thinks I am an idiot. The rest of the list I am okay with.

[OnTheMark]

I cannot read the last page. Someone catch me up on what it says? Without the caps?

[OnTheMark]

I cannot read the last page. Someone catch me up on what it says? Without the caps?

yeah it says vote mastina

Does it give a new reason or case why?

[OnTheMark]

Nope I don’t I was gonna suggest Nancy give it to Titus.

If I had an extra vote to give I am not sure where I would put it.

Give what to who now?

Assume Alisae is telling the truth then Nancy has a vote to give.

I want to give it to you because of something you said.

[OnTheMark]

Then exclude me from it. I don’t want the extra vote.

Wait, you've been complaining all this time about being powerless but when an opportunity arises that you could actually get power you don't want it? The cost hypothetically would be neglible since you wouldn't be summoning creatures anyway.

Yes. And it’s not a complaint it’s a frustration and a merited one.
I should remain weak.

[OnTheMark]

You cannot miss it.

I see the text.
I legit can’t read it.

Like I have eye problems. Doing things like caps walls or funky colors is impossible for me to read.

[OnTheMark]

Thanks Skybird. I will try reading that post when it isn’t 2 AM. This one I can read the first few sentences so yay!

[OnTheMark]

I want to see what Bryona makes of Iconeum hopping on but that is a good point Cerb.

Bryona has been pushing me to consider Iconeum and I find it rather telling that both Ico and Skybird are on Shining once someone else votes there but they don’t start it.

I have a strong feeling Mastina is town. This wagon composition on Dreamers is crap.

[OnTheMark]

Oh.

I should probably also mention my distaste for Icon's plans as laid out. Lynch 1 strong player, if they flip town, lynch another strong player that's guiding the game, and then if they flip town, lynch *another* strong/vocal player.

...

Don't care so much about my place in that set of plans, but the SDvPH=TvS with such certainty that he wants to just lynch through the two of them certainly isn't acceptable.

-Cerb

@Cerb what do you make of the Taly head of the hydra doing the same?
Lynch Shining a strong player, lynch me, a strong player.

[OnTheMark]

I think we should just read people based on play and not wagon composition.
I don't think SD is scum so I don't actually care in this situation but for future reference I am going to be against that line of reasoning.

~B

Who do you think is scum?

[OnTheMark]

@Taly yes you did. In post 2927 you redact its loudness but keep its points.

One of which was “Self-Reminder to wagon the shit out of this if both of us make it to D2.”

So chaining lynches. First Dreamers then me sans flip.

@Cerb would love your thoughts

[OnTheMark]

VOTE: Micc
ok give me your other reads.

Like, is Titus scum?

...
What the fresh hell, you'd better have developed this read more

Town. Gamma imho.

[OnTheMark]

@Mark, What is your read on Iconeum? I don't like repeating myself.

Also, I would not like any more votes out early ty.

Pretty likely to be town based on mechanics and the Venmar push. Worth reevaluating much later if need be.

Would love your answer to what I just asked you.

[OnTheMark]

Oh.

I should probably also mention my distaste for Icon's plans as laid out. Lynch 1 strong player, if they flip town, lynch another strong player that's guiding the game, and then if they flip town, lynch *another* strong/vocal player.

...

Don't care so much about my place in that set of plans, but the SDvPH=TvS with such certainty that he wants to just lynch through the two of them certainly isn't acceptable.

-Cerb

So what you are opting is we lynch the weaker players first, because they have less impact on the game if we are wrong. What you are also suggesting is that I ignore my reads if they are on stronger players.

I'm not going to adjust my reads/preferred lynches on 'strength' of player.

@Ico what do you make of RR calling you out for “chaining lynches” and avoiding the Taly head of Purple Heart doing the same?

[OnTheMark]

Why?

~B

Assume Shining is town. Then Purple Heart has a bad push on Shining. This should cause Purple Heart to evaluate slots. Yet it seems like Purple Heart has a list of slots of “don’t pressure there”.

Assume Shining is scum. Then Purple Heart is very “not scumhunting” here like a planned bus. I like how Gamma tried to get inside Purple Heart’s head and evaluate them and try to see if who they push and what they say is worth following by asking about a slot they haven’t interacted a lot with, despite both posting a lot.

[OnTheMark]

I am willing to vote SD. It has bothered me that they were calling me scum before the day even started. Maybe they were trying to get a reaction from me, who knows. One reason I'm not voting there yet though is something I'm not seeing. Yume is very bitter that I fooled her as scum in SU2. A lot of that was because we were in a PT where I was able to try and influence her. So here we are in this game and again we are in a PT together. If they were scum, why not try to return the favor and buddy me? Instead she called me eyeball and hasn't tried to interact with me.

Hm, this along with mastina+yume's scumread on Alisae makes me feel like SD probably is scum
HURT: Shining Dreamers
I believe they're somewhat close to lynch and B&M said they wanted to do things before day end, but just imagine this is a vote

Although this vote has me retract what I just said :/

Gamma back in null.

[OnTheMark]

I was asking you why that post made Gamma town.

~B

And I answered?

I liked his push on Purple Heart not questioning Bryona.

[OnTheMark]

Oh.

I should probably also mention my distaste for Icon's plans as laid out. Lynch 1 strong player, if they flip town, lynch another strong player that's guiding the game, and then if they flip town, lynch *another* strong/vocal player.

...

Don't care so much about my place in that set of plans, but the SDvPH=TvS with such certainty that he wants to just lynch through the two of them certainly isn't acceptable.

-Cerb

I want to see what Bryona makes of Iconeum hopping on but that is a good point Cerb.

Bryona has been pushing me to consider Iconeum and I find it rather telling that both Ico and Skybird are on Shining once someone else votes there but they don’t start it.

I have a strong feeling Mastina is town. This wagon composition on Dreamers is crap.

See the underlined and Cerb’s post for context.

[OnTheMark]

What do you make of Ico hopping on the wagon and chaining lynches?
What do you make of Taly slot leading the wagon and chaining lynches?

Sorry I guess asking what you think isn’t literally a question *sigh*

[OnTheMark]

Venmar I kinda agree and disagree with the conclusion.

The fact that Alisae of Purple Heart started screaming despite one vote on eisself and I am still working through Skybird’s quote makes me feel like Alisae wants to be townread and believed based on demonstrating a lot of emotion versus the points.

Even the Skybird quote is still all caps. Like when I go through it tonight I know I will have a headache when all said and done.

[OnTheMark]

Pretty sure Alisae is town which is something I almost never feel about him strongly.
It's usually various degrees of uncertain.

~B

Funny.

I feel the same thing usually about Alisae but my gut is screaming scum scum scum rather loudly.

If you believe Mastina/Yume is town why aren’t you explaining why to Alisae? I am not because I don’t think Alisae will listen.

[OnTheMark]

@Icon: You shouldn't change your reads based on the strength of the players in question. All I'm doing is pointing out that you've outlined a course of action that could easily be scum motivated, and I don't like that course of action because of the benefits to scum it offers.

@OTM: I don't recall Bryona outlining such a course of action? I believe they suggested lynching you, and SD, independently. It's the relational nature of Icon's suggestions that I find troubling. IF x, then y, if y, then z, where following that path to its end with no scum flips saves scum three shots they probably feel they need to take at some point.

So, the issue with Icon and Skybird is that for similar reasons for the likely existence of scum in the hood, multiple scum in the hood isn't especially likely. Possible, yes, but implausible. I haven't done the path, but I think my recall of probabilities is accurate enough a decade later that my thought is accurate. OTM, if you could confirm or deny my thought on that, purely from an objective, probabilistic standpoint?

@MC: about that CW? And I don't object, other than not being sure SS is the best person to vig. He might be just because of his supreme lurker status. Hurts me inside to deliberate call for a vig of an investigative, even a weak one.
-Cerb

Please reread the question.

Taly head of Purple Heart not Bryona is chaining lynches IMHO, with their “If OTM is alive wagon it day two”
Multiple scum in the hood is very unlikely. Agreed possible but very unlikely I have to go to work but the odds of multiple scum in the hood is low. Hence why if SD flips scum which I very much doubt I would then have more data that suggests a low probability world based on heat mapping.

[OnTheMark]

I mean like read recent Gamma posts, it kinda feels like he is ignoring the wagon on him and his recent posts aren't really doing much either.
I am pretty sure Gamma is a hit here.

~B

Honestly he kinda can. As long as Purple Heart screams and demands for SD Gamma doesn’t have to care regardless of alignment.
And I tend to ignore wagons on myself more as town than scum.

[OnTheMark]

Because it forces Yume into following up on the push on me.
It's a line of play you'd make with a more confident/stronger scum player as a hydra partner that can easily make up a case on anyone.

But I don't think that's a line of play you make with Yume. Considering how easily I could have just decided to fight that and force a 1v1.

~B

i can't comment too much on this because i don't think i've played with or played much with yume before. however, i think it's safe to say that mastin has been the primary poster of the hydra, despite mastin saying in the beginning that the plan was for yume to be the primary poster and for mastin to take a more laid back role. yume hasn't even had to commit to a 1v1.

Yume is a lurker by nature.
In the memorable game I played with Yume Yume did a very noticable crumb which to be frank probably won scum!me the game. If anything I suspect Yume is forming the reads and Mastina is just pushing them.

[OnTheMark]

Honestly he kinda can. As long as Purple Heart screams and demands for SD Gamma doesn’t have to care regardless of alignment.
And I tend to ignore wagons on myself more as town than scum.

That doesn't really address the other concern in the post of "he is not accomplishing much".
Which is the main concern.

Neither is half the game with the rate posting is going on. Why pick Gamma?

[OnTheMark]

Neither is half the game with the rate posting is going on. Why pick Gamma?

Gamma has a large post count.
Who has a large post count and isn't accomplishing anything?

~B

The entire game. (This is not a joke.)

[OnTheMark]

The entire game. (This is not a joke.)

So.
You
Cerb
Me
Titus
Purple Heart
Chara
SD
Venmar

All aren't engaging and pushing ideas?
Cause I feel like I could say all of them are.

That wasn’t the question.

You asked accomplishing something.

It feels like right now the majority of the thread is talking at versus talking with.

[OnTheMark]

Unless you feel as though pushing ideas and engaging people about shit that matters isn't accomplishing something?
In which case in your 450 posts you haven't done anything which I think would be a stupid thing to say.

~B

I have done things.
I have tried to tell people where I stand.

However I feel as if I am not accomplishing anything.
Any time I feel I have a valid point someone brings out the MathBlade trope which is why I alted in the first place.
I just didn’t expect that micro to end so soon.

I feel like when I make an appeal to the thread it gets buried so I have to actively respond to try to stop the bleeding I feel is going on.

[OnTheMark]

Let me rephrase what I am saying then.

Gamma has no real compelling original ideas and his posts aren't ever really asking questions that could lead to anything, attempt sway people to agree with him or push his reads it's more an attempt to justify what he is doing.

Is this wording better?

~B

Much.

I don’t think Gamma has formed an opinion yet. I think he’s more still feeling shit out and kinda wants the day to end more than anything. That’s the vibe I get from Gamma. More apathetic than not hunting.

[OnTheMark]

Neither Mastin nor Yume has committed to much of anything. Yume has gone quiet, and Mastin is 70 pages behind, which is plenty of time for her to craft whatever positions she wants to hold by the time she catches up(again, as either alignment).

it baffles me that you can write something like this and not be suspicious of the slot.

There's a rather significant gulf between "suspicious" and "sure enough is scum that I want to lynch them".

-Cerb

Who is in your suspicious pile?

[OnTheMark]

-you-
-lack-
-direction-

i have a couple times tried to get you to vote RR when you clearly scumread them. people try to work with you to try and construct a solid push or wagon and you ignore them cause (??? reasons).

you criticized me for just doing my own thing, but here you are, voting alisae all by yourself. that wagon won't happen today, which puts the influence of your 600 posts to waste.

mark do you think dreamers is scum, and why or why not.

PEDIT: @Mark

Yes you did. After RR was not going to be a thing. I tried again to work with you later to no avail on that wagon.

Yes I am voting Alisae, but I think the SD wagon will fall apart. It’s still mainly the same four people flooding SD scum repeatedly so like meh. It’s going around in circles. The yelling isn’t convincing anyone sure isn’t convincing me and it’s more I am wanting a certain player’s reaction to the Alisae vote.
I gotta go.

[OnTheMark]

Thanks Varsoon for running it as far as you did.

I won’t be able to really type much til after work.

[OnTheMark]

Real talk Chara, why weren't you paranoid about me? The only thing I can think of is my freak out at the start of D2, but I think I do that as either alignment, maybe not talking about replacing as scum though. Not sure if scum!me would realize that town!me wouldn't even want to play anymore with the role I lost and had planned around, since I'd still have new things to play with that could be fun.

I was

I was paranoid of you and Titus and Alisae

Like omg.

Titus clearly did the 4 creature thing
Mastina + Yume should have never have been lynched
She voted when she said she couldn’t.

Oh god the list is there.

Then there was like all my townreads right.

I swear I should just ID town not scum.
I am perma town cop

[OnTheMark]

To be fair, Gamma and Venmar and A50 were all acting pretty scummy D1, and A50+B&M backed themselves into a bad corner. Still, nicely done.

To be fair they shouldn’t have killed me despite the guilty they should have killed Alisae.

I even told them this

But A50 killed me anyway.

[OnTheMark]

Alisae and Taly so sorry!

[OnTheMark]

Tl;dr: I did it, but I would rather nobody knows this and wait to see how everybody reacts. It was the best thing to do regardless.
I agree with that but only for a little bit. I think the best thing you can do is claim it and get in front of it, but then after obtaining reactions first. The reason I suggest this is because surely I am not the only person with the way to find out things. All eyes are going to be on the artifact that stopped the end of day. You can either be out in front of it, or you can let other people control the narrative. (ugh I hate borrowing Titus's words) Whatever your alignment you don't want this biting you in the butt. Never ever assume any action you take is secret ever. People will find out everything you do. I think seeing how people react is good to a point. I'm just a bit salty over not getting Ali wagon reactions too.

^^ Why Almost50 claimed Btw

That was silly “advice” to scum. If I died which scum shouldn’t do then the wrong nugget was there this iding him.

If I lived I could use that for reactions then out the guilty.