Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Frozen Angel]

First thing first: WOOOAAAAAHHHAHHAAAHHA

I'm the leader!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for choosing me guysss

I voted Shiro cause I robbed his chance of being the leader in bloodborne day 1

and cause I miss playing games with him / but this was applicable to more people/

and cause he is my firey twinnie

[Frozen Angel]

Hey sando

were you playing on my Unforgiving mafia that was played offsite?

Your avatar has a quote from that game which is interesting oO

[Frozen Angel]

Alright catching up!

First I must say



for choosing me <3

Also, if anyone who WASN'T FA(or a couple of other people who I won't be naming) were elected, I would agree with you about the high scum probability. FA is in a unique situation, having recently returned to the game and being generally well known, so I'm not particularly surprised she was chosen.

I actually complained to the mod when I submitted my vote about that, noting that I thought it would be better if there were an open thread to talk about this, UNLESS scum were also unable to talk to one another while making this decision(thus, the question I asked), OR their membership was entirely devoid of "popular" players.

I'm really town and I really got voted by people for leadership n0 !!!!

This feels kinda awesome XD

[Frozen Angel]

I understand the pregame scum bias and how that will point out to me having more chance to be scum and that I can't do anything to refute that point but to say that I'm town and that I will use the rest of this day phase to show that.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Were scum able to chat during the pregame?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Rule 7 in leaders say the leader can't die unless a no lynch is achieved. Does this mean they will die in the case of a no lynch, or simply that they will not be protected that night?

If a No Lynch is achieved, the Leader will lose their protection for the night.

Is the leaders protection absolute? As in, strongman/empowered-type kills will still fail on them?

The Leader's protection is absolute until it expires or is voided.

Can multiple people acquire the same power at the same time? That is, could FA and myself, if we were both on the team, gain impenetrable skin tonight?

7. Multiple players may acquire the same Superpower.

Yes.

Are all the powers listed here today unlimited use?

Yes.

Will the superhero team selected be publicly known?

I will not publicly reveal any Superhero Team.

Are superhero teams able to privately communicate with one another during the night/at any other time?

Players are not granted the ability to privately communicate with each other for just being in the same Superhero Team.

What does it mean when the mod is shrugging about scum pregame chat

Also the last part means no adventures xd

[Frozen Angel]

@mod: Shush, don't go quoting your own ambiguous posts at me. We have no reason to assume that abilities won't be available AGAIN in a future phase, so clarification was necessary.

I see absolutely no benefit to the rush of having people express their choices ASAP.

Confirmation of daychat(which we should have assumed anyways means that assuming town doesn't lie, by claiming in advance of the person "most likely" to have been selected by scum(though only marginally more likely than others, as I said before) we give scum the ability to coordinate their claims and say whatever "fits" the situation as revealed by town. If they find out that without their set of votes, their selected teammate would not have won, they can deliberately distance by only having the requisite number of them claim to have voted for that individual. This is, of course, assuming FA is actually scum, or at the least a choice scum decided to make for whatever reasons.

Also, people claiming who they voted for without saying why are being bad and should feel bad for giving out the information most useful to scum, without sharing the information that's useful to town.

Thing is I can see scum choosing me especially if they didn't have pregame chat cause they thought it will make me look worse and that I had a chance in this cause I just returned to ms and sign up thread showed excitement from a bunch of players who wanted to play with me.

[Frozen Angel]

FA I think for now you're someone who flat out shouldn't post their votee.

I can see the point of forcing you to generate a list of people to vote-claim in though. But that might be busy work and understandably tedious, dunno if anyone agrees with me on this point.

I already claimed my vote in my first post.

[Frozen Angel]

I voted Katsuki and firmly believe he should have been leader.

Hi how are you bbmolla

Long time no see o/

[Frozen Angel]

I like molla and katsuky votes on zmuffin

I like Toranaga so far he is doing his usual things

[Frozen Angel]

you should explain your reasons in clear manner so everyone knows what your mindset really is instead of playing mysteriously like your read is so relevant it should be left for later because of reasons. IDK what fence-sittery means and rather have it spelled it out for me and the thread.

I understand what fence-sitting means, basically lack of commitment to reads.

But you can't say:
This is an RVS vote oh and by the way you're also fence-sitting which is scummy.

RVS is random, it does not pair well with a legitimate read.

But that post was clearly not an RVS even though human claimed it to be one

not that it was scummy from human cause it wasn't and I liked his next post about it

[Frozen Angel]

We had RVS?

why did you ask this?

[Frozen Angel]

firey

fiery*

im helpful

XD

[Frozen Angel]

I have a rough guess of at least 3 more people who could have voted me in remaining players

If I won this with less than 5 votes that will suggest scums could not coordinate this on their members either so they didn't have a scum chat during pregame.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't know the best way for popcorning the pregame vote claim between remaining players

should we ask the people who I think voted me first or the rest

or people can just claim this all together and be done with it which might be minorly suboptimal

[Frozen Angel]

I have a rough guess of at least 3 more people who could have voted me in remaining players

If I won this with less than 5 votes that will suggest scums could not coordinate this on their members either so they didn't have a scum chat during pregame.

You don’t think any villas voted for youu?

No I'm saying if I was chosen with less than 5 votes

2. This game is comprised of an 18 player Aspiring Hero Faction and a 5 player Aspiring Villain faction.

that means the 5 scum didn't coordinate the vote.

I actually think there were always a bunch of towns who were voting me here because of my return to ms and because of friendship (for example I can't see Toranaga voting anyone else but me)

If a really high number - about 8/9 were voting me I would assume it was scum trying to pile up on me + some town but if I was nommed by 4/5 votes that means scums didn't have pregame chat and just couldn't pile on the votes on anyone.

[Frozen Angel]

should we ask the people who I think voted me first or the rest

My only thought outside of random was just saying no-one to claim anymore until everyone has posted and claimed to vote you (if they did). This means anyone who voted you and doesn't want us to know that can't know that they won't be caught out in a lie because the numbers on non-winner aren't known.

yeah lets actually do that

[Frozen Angel]

The big assumption is that: Scums wanted to pile on their votes to have a scum leadership today.

Which might be wrong because that would put the chosen person in the spotlight

[Frozen Angel]

this could be the one and only game ever run on MS where scum didn't have pregame chat

seems likely

elaborate why it is likely

[Frozen Angel]

well i just think after thousands of games that have been run with pre-game chat, brian decided "you know what? pregame chat sucks and i hate scum and i'm not gonna let them have it" and so he didn't

it just makes sense

[Frozen Angel]

I can tell you that I'm like 95% sure that I had 2 more votes from the remaining playlist and that they would vote me regardless of alignment.

I can even see myself have upto 4 votes between the remaining playerlist.

Looking at this and the votes that are already claimed, it feels like that the scums were uncoordinated pregame or if they were coordinated they were not coordinated enough to bypass the votes on me (or they thought it's unnecessary)

one other theory is that they did pile up on me because they saw sign up thread and felt like I might have some votes so they just halped it happen to put me in spotlight but that feels kind of suboptimal. and they must be lieing about their votes if that's the case. or the people who would vote me regardless of alignment can be those scums.

[Frozen Angel]

Also 123456789 and Toranaga already claimed they voted for me

[Frozen Angel]

Chikade lets say they could coordinate and they did

what do you think about the claimed votes so far?

[Frozen Angel]

I think the better practice would be to claim who you voted for, the reason and your favorite superhero.

Like me, I like Green Lantern, specifically, the one played by Ryan Reynolds. That movie is like Citizen Kane, but better.

This post is low key alarming on a reread.

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: zMuffinMan

why you don't elaborate your reads/points

[Frozen Angel]

reads/points

dont feel like it atm // if i made any points, it was an accident and i apologise

[Frozen Angel]

ok let me ask more direct questions

why do you think katsuki reaction in voting you were not pure?
why do you think bbmolla reaction was tentatively pure?
Please talk about your read on Toronaga and Human.
What is that Jesus Christ meaning?
why do you think sando is towny?

[Frozen Angel]

I really want to think that I'm actually a good town and that the votes on me were not for petty or because of my special condition only

but yeah the reasons for votes are important. People with fresh meta on others can analyse that better though.

I can say that the two claimed votes on me were "made with town’s best interests in mind" and that I'm not freaked out by either.

[Frozen Angel]

I voted for FA, because she was the person in the list who I felt had the greatest combined chance of being selected by the rest of the playerlist, AND putting me on her team. ^^

lol <3

I consider it XD

[Frozen Angel]

hmm, ive actually been more forward with stating reads than i initially planned to be in this game so i'm going to stay quiet for a while and observe proceedings and maybe ask questions here or there

I dont plan on putting much effort atm.

If any of these posts were made on MU you were already lynched or dayvigged. Huge culture differences... huuuuuge

Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?

[Frozen Angel]

Good thing this isnt MU then.

We can have some of their good habits here

maybe that will help ms towns

[Frozen Angel]

hmm, ive actually been more forward with stating reads than i initially planned to be in this game so i'm going to stay quiet for a while and observe proceedings and maybe ask questions here or there

I dont plan on putting much effort atm.

If any of these posts were made on MU you were already lynched or dayvigged. Huge culture differences... huuuuuge

Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?

For what it's worth FA, I did come into this with the intention of putting forward LOADS less effort than normal, so there's a place for it...I don't think that place is D1 though.

I do think I'm going to stop bloating the thread myself right now though, since I DID convince some people to play that aren't used to larges/didn't really wanna deal with the volume of a large game, so it would be rude to make that worse myself.

I'm just saying I don't understand intentional transparency and avoiding to elaborate points with the excuse of I don't wanna try early. If it was for - yeah I'm busy IRL - or for -I'm not in the mood to play the usual way - it was understandable but - Hey I'm not gonna do anything cause I say so - is kinda eww

[Frozen Angel]

My early impression-reads is that a lot of town were talking so far so I expect at least 2 scum in people who are not talking

I feel good about cerb, sakura, nancy, Toranaga being my early townreads

I feel slightly good about Human and mola as second tier

Too early for having meaningful reads. just telling what its on top of my head

[Frozen Angel]

because when i give reads, i get people asking why and i don't feel like answering why this early - you either follow my thought process or you don't and i don't particularly care if you don't atm

It's about understanding how you think about stuff, It's not just about what do you care about and don't

and you should care about people not having the same opinion/ not understanding your opinion cause they matter

[Frozen Angel]

So you won't pick me?

how did that post imply that?

[Frozen Angel]

I choose people who I think are town and I'm more confident in my reads on them

[Frozen Angel]

Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?

1 - I already have a hard time keeping track of everyone in such a large game, so im stating already im not putting effort so i dont have to answer questions about people i dont even remember.
2 - I have noticed that putting more effort D1 just causes a lot of arguing and in fighting and TvTing and i just dont want to deal with that stress.
3 - Scums are easier to find lategame anyway.

Based on this, i decided to do a change of approach this game and see how it goes. That way i can relax, and then start analyzing when there's more information out in the open.

yeah, but we must have a day 1 and day 2 to reach that endgame. tvts and discussions produce the content needed for the late stage that you're talking about

besides that, it's a fair approach to put more effort into the game when you can [lategame].

[Frozen Angel]

you should care about people not having the same opinion/ not understanding your opinion

when i feel like lynching someone or when someone i think is likely town is going to be lynched, then i will say so and perhaps explain why

otherwise, i honestly don't care right now what you think of me or my reads

Yeah I doubt anyone can win any games as the town with this approach ever

I mean beside - by getting carried by others who cared enough to contribute to game for real

which makes me question the honesty of this answer. Are you trying to sort a series of excuses to avoid conversations that can be used to evaluate your mindset or are you really just not cooperating because you're lazy? I feel it's the first in this case because the tone of this response is off.

[Frozen Angel]

think what you want to think

[Frozen Angel]

Good thing this isnt MU then.

We can have some of their good habits here

maybe that will help ms towns

Oh dear lawdy are you gonna be Mulch 2.0

Mulch is Amrock?

[Frozen Angel]

Toranaga explain that vote

[Frozen Angel]

ok 3 people claimed they voted me That is way under than what I thought I had

either scum really didn't have a pregame chat - they decided to split vote and allow town to choose people - or they voted me cause they think they can control me

[Frozen Angel]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

[Frozen Angel]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

[Frozen Angel]

ok 3 people claimed they voted me That is way under than what I thought I had

either scum really didn't have a pregame chat - they decided to split vote and allow town to choose people - or they voted me cause they think they can control me

if scum voted you and you're town, they don't have to lie about it. the 3 people that voted you making you leader leads to me thinking scum votes were spread out to avoid associative reads, especially if you won with just 3 votes. wolves can have pregame chat AND not coordinate their votes in any way, cause that leaves a readable paper trail town can figure things out with.

yeah, which means:

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this or that they didn't want to do it

[Frozen Angel]

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS VIVE LA FRANCE

[Frozen Angel]

FA, at least 4 people said they voted you right? Myself, Shiro, and two others who responded earlier?

What surprises me is that I had at least 3 votes! If I hadn't voted for you, and nobody else voted for you, I could have been leader! !!

Oh

I didn't count you

yes 4 people voted me with you I was miscounting

[Frozen Angel]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mind

1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.

Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.

Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.

what do you mean secret the prs? you mean my team? I'm not gonna announce who I'm gonna choose today. tomorrow I will out all players though

I don't get the last sentence and how is this related to my post though

[Frozen Angel]

And I'm not gonna ever randomize the people I choose to get prs

[Frozen Angel]

actually

@Mod if we learn an ability, is that ability permanent or is it just for one-night phase?

[Frozen Angel]

Are you trying to say that giving random people abilities is more optimal than giving one to my town reads?

[Frozen Angel]

Are you trying to say that giving random people abilities is more optimal than giving one to my town reads?

Unfortunately yes, but it is mathmatecially optimal not playing mafia for fun optimal.

Yeah, I don't think I'm that shit to be less accurate than random.

[Frozen Angel]

FA, check #205 by titus. I find the flat out assumption that scum coordinated their votes to you strange. also her entire ISO is just these mechanical talking points that aren't solid towny thoughts.

Hi. I don't think we've met. I'm the queen of votes and mechanics. I detest d1 because there is little of either. D1 is people trying to puff up themselves.

Oh you met him lol

[Frozen Angel]

I voted for Drixx. I felt that him as leader makes him more readable and gets him to form reads earlier.

FA as leader, assuming scum could coordinate, suggests scum are at a minimum trusting of FA's judgement which is wierd

Ok ufo has a point here

Why did you assume that the scums piled their votes on me?

[Frozen Angel]

What is the benefit of publicly announcing who I'm choosing?

Unless if we're saying it will be a consulting thing and we all are gonna choose one of my peek together

[Frozen Angel]

maybe we can decide someone and ask them to choose night protection abilities - I think there was a bp one

[Frozen Angel]

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS VIVE LA FRANCE

SEE WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE ELECTED
DEMOCRACY HAS FAILED ONCE AGAIN

See you in the finale

if you can get past both Sweden and Croatia though

[Frozen Angel]

It's obvious why the existance of a scum leader is good for the scum team, they would be able to know which players have superpowers.
As a town leader you're uninformed and may end up inadvertedly giving scum a superpower.

Suffice to say, I think im not gonna rely on PRs to find scum, that mechanic is swing af, and it also puts a lot of pressure on whoever the current leader is.

"But with great power, comes great responsibility"

Yes, which is why I will never do it randomly. Unless if its random from a little group of people I have town reads on.

[Frozen Angel]

Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?

[Frozen Angel]

Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?

Alisae is mentioned in there for some reason. Otherwise, no clue.

The reason I'm asking it in the first place is that Alisae is mentioned there.

[Frozen Angel]

@Titus can you explain your math? why random is mathematically optimum in your opinion?

[Frozen Angel]

Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.

[Frozen Angel]

As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.

We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think

[Frozen Angel]

This feels smart at first glance (no way to screw this up since you're completely kill-immune) but what advantages are there really to this?

I was thinking it's a one night only power when I said that so I was thinking that way people will know who had the abilities and can hold them accountable for those later on.

I'm not sure if it's the right play now that I know I was wrong with my initial impression about this

[Frozen Angel]

Shouldn't we consider FA as random though?

?

[Frozen Angel]

I have a feeling that scums might get some secret abilities from these skills - something like the setting we made in nahdias civilization mafia last year. If anything this setup is really similar to that game with ability mechanics.

[Frozen Angel]

I have a feeling that scums might get some secret abilities from these skills - something like the setting we made in nahdias civilization mafia last year. If anything this setup is really similar to that game with ability mechanics.

I mean there are clearly 2 source for abilities - one is called "Leage of alisae".

Maybe there is another hidden league of something for scum

[Frozen Angel]

which if that's true it will make the public claiming of members a bit risky.

I need to think about the best way for handling things a bit more

[Frozen Angel]

As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.

We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think

Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?

pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.

no I will probably fail at having 5 solid ones

what do you think with scum having a league of villans or something idea of me?

[Frozen Angel]

@Titus Because from my experience you're a good asset for town, and partially because I wanted to be chosen.

Why do you think I would choose you? Do you think being chosen is advantageous?

1. Because you like me
2. Not neccessarily, I just want to be a neighborizer.

what neighborize ability are you talking about?

[Frozen Angel]

this is true, but 5 people get a power
u can't kill them all, even if they don't land on scum

more importantly, it informs the decisions of future leaders

what do you mean by last sentence?

[Frozen Angel]

oh I actually get it now

we need at least one public candidate who will be tomorrows leader

[Frozen Angel]

Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game. The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen. In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?

yes in civ there were wonders that were only buildable by scum which were known and adoptable by scum so if they were chosen with some mechanic they could build them etc

It will make it more powerful than a 1 shot factional block or factional cop cause it will be perma

they might get a perma strongman or something out of that too

or abilities that might mess with leader voting itself

There are so many possibilities

[Frozen Angel]

The thing that made me theorize that is that there are 2 type of abilities:

BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE LEAGUE OF ALISAE
INFINITECH STANDARD

if you see the vcs

and no where it's confirmed we will have 6 abilities revealed per day

[Frozen Angel]

actually the number of 6 makes me wonder

@mod can two players learn the same ability?

[Frozen Angel]

I was not a player in civ I reviewed the game I don't remember if the wonders where known to town or not but I guess not

but yeah the conclusion will be scum might have anything and it's either factional or by abilities they can learn that town can't

[Frozen Angel]

I'm sorry it's late, I'm in bed and I'm phone posting or I would check op first

[Frozen Angel]

FA assuming you're town, do you think scum would have seen you as a big enough threat as leader to try and get someone else leader, town or scum? Do you think there's anyone in the player pool that scum might have wanted to NOT be leader?

Sometimes I'm really a scary town: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Minimash

That is when I get a full grasp of the game state and have enough free time and discussions in the game to understand stuff. for example, in that game, I linked starting day 2 I caught 7/9 mafia team and hard cased the deepest ones and 2 3ps in a game that was very obviously scum sided and we won as the town. I got nommed for the best town for next award set on the mafia universe because of that.

But I guess no one but ufo or Titus in this game thinks I can do a game like that here though.

Any way I can see a decent percentage of players in this game not giving a fuck to give me the leader position assuming that I will ruin it.

[Frozen Angel]

the worst appeared and commented about the pregame chat thing and disappeared?!

[Frozen Angel]

Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?

I think Alisae invents two of the powers while the mod had the rest pre-planned.

Isn't that bastard that a "future sub" player is secretly a part of mod team and is giving out powers on ms?

[Frozen Angel]

Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.

Are we sure about that? What is town's winrate here on Mafiascum (for normals)? I'm pretty sure it is fair bit under EV.

Yeah first those are not the same random things, one is about winning the game the other is about finding 5 town

Secondly, I would like to think so that way about myself. I won't surrender my decision to randomness

[Frozen Angel]

Impenetrable Skin: You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

@Mod can you clarify this ability? Is it an active ability getting activated every night (so one bp per night phase) or is it a passive ability protecting from 1 kill that same night phase?

[Frozen Angel]

Impenetrable Skin: You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

@Mod can you clarify this ability? Is it an active ability getting activated every night (so one bp per night phase) or is it a passive ability protecting from 1 kill that same night phase?

It is an active ability that provides its effect whenever it is activated.

so it can be reused each night?

[Frozen Angel]

This seems it can be reused each night

[Frozen Angel]

how bout you FA?

I'm trying to find the grasp of the game state that I mentioned earlier.

I need more people talking in game atm for this to work

[Frozen Angel]

But I guess no one but ufo or Titus in this game thinks I can do a game like that here though.

Hey D: I also believe in you.

<3 sorry

[Frozen Angel]

Any reads twinnie

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: alisae
Being serious here, uhh I townread Sando so far, and FA, I think.

1-9 seems fine. As does Cerb.


I need more kokichi content to determine his alignment.

talk about these reads a little bit

anyone else?

[Frozen Angel]

i don't see why he'd lie about that. i trust cupcake to tell the truth

yeah well, a lie about that will make you think scum used a real factional ability on him which might bias you to think they are town.

The thing about that is that they could use a post restriction like that if it's real on a member of their own faction

Occum razor is that its a lie actually

[Frozen Angel]

It's just a very NAI thing if its truth and a very NAI thing to lie about. If its true it proves that scum has extra abilities theory.

[Frozen Angel]

btw these names are "Winter Skies, Sprinkled Delight, Red Gyarados, and Democracy" Aspiring Villain teammates

I wonder how that makes sense if all of the players in scum team were receiving same role pm with "Aspiring villain" as role name >.>

[Frozen Angel]

Hello Brian Skies, you are an Aspiring Villain. Your teammates are Winter Skies, Sprinkled Delight, Red Gyarados, and Democracy. Your factional PT is located here. You win when your faction achieves parity with the Aspiring Heroes or nothing can stop this from happening. Please respond to me with confirmation of your alignment and your vote for the game's first Leader (you may not vote for yourself).

This is how a sample villain role in the op

[Frozen Angel]

is*

[Frozen Angel]

wait are those usernames of people who play on Mafia scum?!

[Frozen Angel]

I'm stupid I was thinking its some sort of flavor reference

[Frozen Angel]

Ok lets discuss this

You're voting katsuki cause you think their vote on you was scummy

You think their claim is legit and that they wouldn't lie about that

These two things can coexist I'm just intrested to know how are they sitting together in your mind? what is your current read on katsuki and how are you elaborating it?

[Frozen Angel]

I like the people who voted muffin becuase their posts are a little weird and especially the second one can look like TMI, and I think the votes are pure reactions to things these people (katsuki, bbmolla and chickadee) find scummy, so I'm fine townreading all of them as much as it's possible this early.

(katsuki, bbmolla and chickadee)

no // tentative yeah // yeah

?!

[Frozen Angel]

i think hes town for that post restriction post

why?

[Frozen Angel]

Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game

and probably is doing it to help scum

[Frozen Angel]

I really don't like titus in this game so far. she seems nervous and not easy with her suggestions - mechanical discussions tonaly. she has been alarming me here and there

[Frozen Angel]

Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game

and probably is doing it to help scum

yeah it appears like e either makes up powers or is given a predetermined list of powers and distributes those throughout the gamedays to help scum.

wonder if alisae is in wolfchat.

Varsoon made a game I was reviewing with a role like this - a person who was in wolf chat and could switch abilities for scum

[Frozen Angel]

Do you have any actual scumreads?

yeah

will you vote them for my ease of mind?

[Frozen Angel]

Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game

and probably is doing it to help scum

Since attention is being called to it now, FA, my 358: was I right in assuming that you'd understand what I was trying to accomplish with it? Don't say what it was! Just making sure that my assumption about how you'd take that post was correct.

If you mean 353, you know that I can understand when someone is putting some wine in the field. I just count that approach NAI coming from you.

[Frozen Angel]

what are your town/scumreads

I think muffin, katsuki, FA and hebichan are town.
I think cerb and brass are scum.

can you write one sentence for each

[Frozen Angel]

Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game

and probably is doing it to help scum

Since attention is being called to it now, FA, my 358: was I right in assuming that you'd understand what I was trying to accomplish with it? Don't say what it was! Just making sure that my assumption about how you'd take that post was correct.

If you mean 353, you know that I can understand when someone is putting some wine in the field. I just count that approach NAI coming from you.

<3

Fair enough. Thoughts on Titus, of all people, not getting that?

yeah titus is being kinda reserved and its giving me flashbacks to first day of age of wonders game when she was a scum and I read her wrong and she killed me and then started playing to her scum meta freely.

She is just kinda tonely off and feels distracted. Idk how to think about that yet

[Frozen Angel]

Why would anyone make something like this up?

to post some anime musics obviously

[Frozen Angel]

can you write one sentence for each

Can? Sure.
Will I? Nah.

Don't feel interested enough to defend any TR or SR yet, much rather see if anyone notices what im noticing.

oh yeah I forgot about that late-game only elaboration policy

[Frozen Angel]

And yet if everyone does what you're doing

But they arent.

purposefully proceeds to ignore the rest of cerb's post

I never learn

[Frozen Angel]

I should finish that article that I was writing about the social aspect of mafia and how one can use it to have a better game.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't wanna be the one pushing nancy cause reasons but she pings me as scum since very early and quite a lot.

I find her invested and genuine actually. can you elaborate?

[Frozen Angel]

can you write one sentence for each

Can? Sure.
Will I? Nah.

Don't feel interested enough to defend any TR or SR yet, much rather see if anyone notices what im noticing.

oh yeah I forgot about that late-game only elaboration policy

MEH if it's a playstyle thing I'll give it a pass but I'm not happy about it

I don't know their meta

there was a discussion earlier in this game about it

[Frozen Angel]

@VLA for 48 hours

I will post in between, also sorry for my disapearenece

I'm hosting a 120+ people thing sorry

[Frozen Angel]

I'm back don't hammer. Let me make sure about my team tonight.

[Frozen Angel]

UNVOTE:

I don't know the vc and I'm so behind. Will read this in few

[Frozen Angel]

actually please give me 12 hours to catch up my eyes are red and I'm physically incapable of doing this rn

[Frozen Angel]

If my request was not clear: do not rush this day please

I can't do things tonight give me tomorrow to catch up

[Frozen Angel]

Reading the game rn

[Frozen Angel]

Page 22

I like Nancy and UFO debate about light game. Nancy looks okish and typical and ufo has the spark of solving in his attidue he shows as town

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

This post from cerb looks decent coming from him. I don't think I remember his scum game but I liked the way he is talking about Sakura here. About Sakura, It felt like sakura really wants to not post her reasons but wants to do it at the same time. If it was because of an old game wound or something I can give it a pass for a bit I think.

@Katsuki, is this a mod thing or something connected with your role? Afaik, no roles or powers have been given out yet, so how do you account for it?

Like nancy doing it. if katsuki did nothing but that so far she can die. About Katsuki, her doing it is not AI imo but if she kept doing it and if she did nothing else, it makes her a no-entity player (people who don't play the game and do random things instead) which I want gone sooner than later.

Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353

It does seem rather hinky. It's rather unlike Cerb to suppose town can just keep 6 people alive indefinitely and that FA would automatically trust him. Seems exactly why scum would let FA be a leader. Town!Cerb is more of a critical thinker than that. Town!Cerb would also consider the possibility of a factionsl strongman.

VOTE: Cerb

I dunno. I think Cerb is likely town here based on meta. Where do you get that scum wanted FA to be a leader? It looked like a mostly town vote to me. Why would you think FA’s being a leader is primarily scum motivated?

Basic math. 5 scum. If scum didn't want FA to be leader, they coordinate on someone else. FA has received fewer than 5 votes claimed. The Day 1 leader is always scum motivated. (Note: That does not mean FA scum).

Cerb acting as if he cannot die is rather scummy. A town Cerb considers that a) There might be a factional strongman b) That FA might read him as scum incorrectly and thus not give him a vest or c) imply she would give cerb a vest to protect more town reads but scum shoot Cerb anyway.

Why do you think I will bring cerb no matter what? What gave you such impression? Why do you think scum had a pregame chat? Do you think that i was chosen cause people think they can manipulate my reads and pocket me to do this early game?

[Frozen Angel]

page 22:

Furthermore, the BP option ensures no investigatives.

what do you suggest me and my team should do?

page 23:

Completely disagree with everything you just said. Faking a PR is totally NAI and ignorable unless people build reads off it. I don't think what zmuffin is doing is wierd.

The question is if they really believed what they did or did they fake it. their whole reaction around it is troubling me a little. It felt like they were faking that they believe it.

I'd rather take 6 trackers, use the kill information for VCA.

there aren't so many things to track in this though. 6 trackers will give scum a great chance of getting outed though.

Or better yet, enhanced hearing

Enhanced hearing is bullshit titus

It's not a watcher. it's just an alarm if actions were casted

or am I getting it wrong?

[Frozen Angel]

page 24:

I think I like titus mathing up this whole role picking tactics a little bit.

yeah titus assuming ufo gave a sr on Sakura and getting in fight with him is actually weird but low key towny. I want to read a little more of this actually. So far she doesn't seem like someone who puts thing together to push a fake agenda. Completely opposite, her fight seems to have no further agenda which is a little bit towny of her.

I need to read more to judge this better tbh

[Frozen Angel]

page 25:

But if you aren't implying Sakura is scummy, write better.

i gtg

Why do you care about a sr on someone else? Do you think they have been towny or ufo was scummy when implying that in what/how you read things? Why not allowing sakura defending themself first? whats the point of this push of you on that specific read like this?

you gave reads, just didn't expand when asked.

That is correct.

if you can go down from your millennial podium for a second to explain this one I'd appreciate it.

I'd appreciate it if you didnt talk about it in that way, I never said I was better than anyone, nor that my reads should be listened to without explanation, im just relaxing and being lazy.

These posts shade Sakura fwiw. You imply she's millenial and thus lesser.

But she didn't expand her reads for real. how is that implying she was scum for it? do you disagree with what ufo said there?

this is what you do as scum. you throw any logic out the window to push whatever you want pushed. you'd be more reasonable as town.

Yeah she is the moon walker. the key thing in reading titus is that "is she doing things calculative? she has an agenda doing this or is she just her "the girl on fire" style self? is she posting fake reads and fake dumb telling on purpose?"

That reminds me that I got actually a little bit concerned about the enhanced hearing comment of titus.

[Frozen Angel]

page 25:

Titus, it's perspective. Toranaga's intentions and what they actually did don't particularly matter in this case. You're perceiving what they did as claiming to scum read Sakura, and are moving to protect Sakura, therefore you're white knighting. Your white knighting is uncalled for/unjustified given that Toranaga didn't actually say they were scumreading Sakura(and even explicitly said they did not think the point I brought up meant Sakura was scummy), but that doesn't mean you weren't attempting to white knight.

I find it a little alarming that cerb avoids giving a read even not a simple shake stance on titus and ufo here when he is talking like both are townreads.

VOTE: randomidget

isn't doing anything and posts are awful

You called titus scum a few posts above this what changed?

wait are those usernames of people who play on Mafia scum?!

Technically one is...? Democracy was a mega hydra that was in a game I played

Gonna be honest, I do not feel like reading 15 pages. I've skimmed some of it...and I'm glossing over....

All I am confident in is Cerb and FA being town. But like...those are shallow reads and even I know it.

I like that you tried to just give out a reads on top of your head (which is conflicting on strength in post as you just posted kinda find it towny a bit) but them without any follow up won't give any one anything to help them read you.

I just ISO'd muffin and it's the wolfiest posting in this game by a large margin maybe.

chickadee isn't that far behind after last post.

I'm ok with that. I kind of expected to drown in this game, so I can't really fault anyone for scum reading me.

why not putting some effort and giving a read that you can be accounted for or just any comments? what do you think about leader and team and the mechanics? what do you think about people discussing those things?

[Frozen Angel]

page 26:

I don't actually care about not giving reads. I don't give reads early game. I care about not expressing the reasoning behind the reads when given.

whats the difference? Both can come from both alignments. the context really matter

oh you wanted to post votecounts like mafia host does on MU.

yeah it's not a feature here.

I know, it really messes up my game, if either the mod doesn’t post vote counts enough or I have to reread the thread for subsequent votes.

How many games have nancy played on ms? This is something I can see from ms scum faking but this is just not a thing I expect from nancy to do if scum.

brassherald, thoughts on the game?

we're movie bros now, but that doesn't make you town.

There's lots of stuff I have only skimmed from today because I am semi-VLA during the weekends, but here are general thoughts so far.

I am not a fan of people refusing to explain reads, personally, I don't necessarily think it's AI, because I have played with people like Wisdom who do that as town, but, damn, it's annoying and I think inhibits the town from forming an effective town block.

I'm very confident in Gamma being town, he has a distinct tone in his town games from his scum games. I know he took a break, but this is his town tone, not his scum tone. I've successfully identified the town tone in games in the past, particularly Civ V mafia where people wanted to lynch him repeatedly, but, I really ask that people listen to me on this one for a change.

As I said, Nancy is probtown, that whole ISO thing doesn't come from scum with daychat.

the worst is not looking good to me, he's another I have a good record of reading and I don't know how involved he actually is in the Marathon weekend, but he's been evasive here. In fact VOTE: the worst

I see the point on muffin, and he's scummy, but we have plenty of time and I've no clue what the VC on him is.

Chick is also another one that pings me, but, let's be honest, that's nothing new. Eventually I'll be right and she's scum, but she's on my watch list.

If there's anyone in particular you'd like my thoughts on, I'm happy to give them. This is just what's sticking out in my head right now.

what is the point on muffin and why was he scummy in your opinion? Why not playing is scummy for worst? You also mention marathon as a reason for his absence. Why TW over everyone else not playing/putting effort if you wanted to poke a lurker?

[Frozen Angel]

page 26:

Sando just talking aboit mechanics still. This attidue might be coming from the mafia who is trying to go deep so it's good to keep watch on them imo

Wtf? Why the hell is Muffin’s vote still on Katsuki after insisting he’s not scum. This makes no sense whatsoever.

pretty sure I mentioned that before. do you find those muffin responses scummy?

You just quoted his posts. what is odd about him parking till he finds a better wagon to pile on?

Page 27:

why does it matter?

Your vote is on someone you keep saying is not scum. Do you not think that’s kind of odd?

any suggestions on a better wagon out of interest?

That is a low key alarming entrance. It's nai on it's own it has wolf equity though there are so many thing you can talk and take stances on and you decide to ask someone for a wagon to suggest them to you?

unshakable gross-feeling powerwolf gutread on FA which my head is telling me to shake

what gave you such feeling and why you didn't talk about it more elaborated or vote me or ask me things instead of asking nancy for a vote to follow?

ohey I like Titus. I don't know that there's anything strikingly alignment telling in there but she comes from a place of sensibility and optics are definitely good.

what did you like in their observations? why its not AI. if its not ai why you like the slot?

[Frozen Angel]

page 28:

Look, there's a thing called a pressure vote. I was trying it on for size and summoning the duck. It worked.

You think they wouldn't summon after marathon?

Like sando questions from tw don't think that are towny just good questions.

VOTE: zmuffinman

I don't know the muffin man, really, but this seems like an okay vote if the worst is going to play.

why it's an ok vote? based on what?

I doubt you did. her mechanic talk has been sensible fmpov but again, nothing there screams alignment indicative.

what part of it and why you didn't mention the parts of her mechanics you were agreed with and found them right till this point?

I think you're okay. wouldn't really say I'm engaged enough to townread you and I'll be more interested in sorting you later.

Why are they ok? why hesitant in taking a stance on them here? do you have meta on them?

FOS Theworst : that is such a middleground taking - it's a way to show he is working which will let them make a read based on the conscious on muffin later on in day. I find the progression fake.

P.edit just want to add that based off of meta, the worst seems to be town here.

explain this meta

tw backing off from the ok read to make a stance in same page few comments later. Is he always going middleground on reads and then backtracks to councios as his meta?

[Frozen Angel]

page 29:

the link? no. need more data before i talk about that

why they're scum individually? i thought it would be obvious to anyone who'd read their ISOs - if you don't see it, then you don't see it

i'll throw you a bone and say that there's a lack of incisive commentary from either player and that plays a part in it. think about the movitations behind why they ask the particular questions they ask too

Honestly I read so many people acting like gods with high ego in games. But this is just an entire new level. I have trouble deciding if it's open wolfing or just an extremly annoying town play.

I'm actually leaning on second a bit here cause I liked the effort before with snark comments and questions and you giving reads and I expect ms town to do these things from my exprience and memories.

page 30:

yeah I like muffin more

unforgiving mafia talks XD

[Frozen Angel]

Wait, are you backing off on your "ok" read on Nancy or?

I'm kinda curious where you ended up on her.

is this @ me?

I think I don't expect scum them to fake some attitude they show in this. I was just wondering how much mser she is now cause ms mafia are known for doing dirty acts like that and are good at that u know

[Frozen Angel]

page 31:

I like HS response to ufo vote and post

So my current TRs are FA, duckling and Sakura (who doesn't pick a mechanical fight with me as scum imo). I normally build a "Town list", a "not to be lynched today list", a "yeah ok you can lynch them list" and a "scum list". That said, are we coordinating the next leader openly? Cause while I think we should obviously go for as townie as possible in our leader list, there's some townies that I don't feel completely comfortable picking as leader (although still better choices than anyone not in townie list).

How exactly is it scum-motivated? Or rather, why are you jumping the gun here?

Scum have daychat correct? Otherwise I'd say as a means of coded messages.

Oh so alisae is switching like the way ufo was in nintendo game

and probably is doing it to help scum

I don’t see how either of the given abilities help scum. They look likely help town more tbqh.

I don't understand FAs post, what was UFO doing in nintendo?

Nintendo switch mash was a large mafia game on MU. It had a mechanic that would switch half of the abilities off and turn on the other half and UFO was in charge of deciding which half is active even after his death. I just suggested that alisase is probably something like that as a player in game who is not with us and can choose a bunch of abilities from a pool he has access to and we see them as "League of Alisae"

[Frozen Angel]

page 32:

Yeah exactly what ufo explained about alisae.

I mean tora my reason for voting fa is self explanatory, she is fa

XD

@VLA for 48 hours

I will post in between, also sorry for my disapearenece

I'm hosting a 120+ people thing sorry

Where is this 120+ people thing?

It's a MU event. still not done.

[Frozen Angel]

Page 34:

so I have as towns: FA, cerb, sando, shiro, muffin, human, nancy.

This is a great town list imo probably with 1 error or maybe 2 at most.

I would lynch a good number of players this gameday. katsuki, sakura tbh, titus, nicorobin cause he voted for titus, chickadee, the worst.

nico is a she and she is a hard person to read and that won't make her scummy. I think you're wrong on titus but I'm not sure. Sakura is just passing without effort atm imo. Chik and tw are my scumreads too.

@Shiro stop being so cute You already are over-pocketing me with things. This is reminding me of the way people were against the scum you in that multiball game where I was in hydra with RC and we were scum in another faction ...

in other note I liked shiros early posts. And their vote on me is very natural and expected from him imo.

[Frozen Angel]

page 35:

FA could be scum or scum could be charismatic and capable of buddying FA. Either is scum influence in picking FA. It's also impossible to pressure FA to sort her given the fact she's lynch immune.

given you know about my mental condition you know that asking me questions and expressing reads on me will trigger me and is as same as putting pressure votes on me. You of all people should know how much self aware I am.

Anyway I'm not scum. neither I think I'm easily manipulatable. none of the people voting me concern me about this either. I think 1-9 or cerb are the people with weakest reasons for voting me and I'm concerned about neither in first glance.

Why do you think scum selected me?

[Frozen Angel]

I have the best reason for voting you! Naked ambition and a superior understanding of the relationships between people outside of the game than that displayed by some other people who voted for people who they thought would give them stuff, but didn't consider whether or not that person was most likely to be selected!

It's good to see you back and doing stuff FA!

Thanks! I've been really busy!

Also yes I understand your reason and I think it's so you to think that way and I like your vote and reason.

Two things about it though:
1) It's just not AI by nature of the reason you claimed you have. You can have that reason for voting me as scum or town
2) It's not as strong vote as shiro and ufo put on me. They both had pregame, even more than mafia games, friendship related, so many games playing together reasons for voting me and based on stuff I would scum read them if they were claiming a vote on anyone else probably if I'm making sense.

I also like your proposition about town read announcement by others.

[Frozen Angel]

page 37:

wait are those usernames of people who play on Mafia scum?!

Technically one is...? Democracy was a mega hydra that was in a game I played

Gonna be honest, I do not feel like reading 15 pages. I've skimmed some of it...and I'm glossing over....

All I am confident in is Cerb and FA being town. But like...those are shallow reads and even I know it.

This is a town-motivated post.

why?

Nosferatu replaces Chickadee.

Hi Nosferatu!

Sup yo?

sup
VOTE: sando

i was on like page 15 so im gonna continue with that

reads were like

{}
{}
{human, chick, molla}
{nico,brass,sakura,ircher,gamma,hebi,kokichi,mylo,nancy,rando,shiro,worst,titus,tora,muffin}
{sando, drixx, tora, cerb}
{}
{}

just so you know

where am I?!!!

This is a bad post.

Why was it a bad post?

[Frozen Angel]

page 38

in nintendo switch mash, after I died n2 I became responsible for "switching" all the colours at night. there was red/blue, yellow/brown, black/white, etc. players actions would perform different abilities depending on what colour I chose at night. E.G. a role that, if white, peeks it's target and, if black, kills it.

I believe alisae has the power to either choose from a row of mod determined abilities every gameday, or craft their own in a way that can help scum. it's different from what I did in nintendo, but similar in the sense that both me and alisae need to achieve a wincon through manipulating the mechanics, without being "alive" in the sense of posting in thread etc.

Interesting theory, but why does Alisae pick a bulletproof option for scum? There isn't a vig currently, so scum don't need a bulletproof vest.

Maybe Alisae is doing it for town? He claimed he is a villain in sign up thread but I don't think he would have been allowed to claim who is he is siding with like that if that was the case? the bp is certainly townsiding though.

mulch was closer to FA 2.0 really

Is this suppose to be an insult?

I'm not in your reads yet.

Nosferatu catchup is towny. his reads are bad imo. Can't follow him at all. his questions are not reads or explanations its just stuff that he through there based on a skim. can't see agenda hunting or critical point rising there. eh

page 38:

The League of Alisae is flavor for the Spectator Thread. It is a joke that I carried over from the Sign-Up Thread so I can show some homage toward Alisae for being a generally awesome person and being the lone Spectator. Alisae bears no responsibility for anything that does or doesn't happen during this game.

No changes to the setup were made after it was approved from the Review Process.

Goat thanks XD

I still don't know why abilities were parted in 2 in lists

[Frozen Angel]

that was page 39 and 40

[Frozen Angel]

where am I?!!!

good question

What is the answer?

did you forget me

[Frozen Angel]

@FA: Ya, true, it's 100% NAI for me, especially since you were part of getting me into this game...really, voting for any of you, Chickadee, or TW would have been easily defensible, as would voting for Titus, on almost the exact same grounds.

I know you secretly think I'm a great player and you wanted to give me the chance to do this cause you thought I'm a great option. Thanks!

*hides*

[Frozen Angel]

page 40:

FA hasn't played with me in a while but she can read me pretty well

That druid game mate. That is one of my favorite/ most memorable games ever xd

Sakura, Titus, Gamma, FA, Ank: Read on this slot please and thank you.

If you decide he's scum, I'll word him to death.

Yeah I remember about 0% msers metas

I have a gold fish memory and was out of here for a year.

I think they did work, it's fakable as scum but they did it. need more data to judge them better.

[Frozen Angel]

page 41:

I like ank actually.

That's why if I was leader I would circle jerk and pick people I am familiar with instead of depending on "reads" :p

shirrrrroooo why you're doing this to me!

There are way too many voices for me to really sort properly. But I think Ank is my biggest town read atm. So I'm gonna sheep it till I feel like I have a better feel here.

VOTE: nancy drew

you must vote your biggest concern not sheep your biggest townread. explain why is ank scumreading her and why you thought thats ok to sheep them. whats your read on nancy?

i...didnt mean to unvote....

why didn't you vote back then?

[Frozen Angel]

people talking about gitsou xd

[Frozen Angel]

page 42:

the 1-9 became a wagon in this page for no mentioned reason. It's eh. I was hoping to see more for the leading wagon.

I don't like titus jumping on the wagon AT ALL.

VOTE: Numbers

Still need to compare professed leadership votes to wagons but I am highly curious about this. Numbers has done a lot of attacking but very little townreading of slots.

Numbers flip would suggest Tog's alignment as well.

this is a really really really really awful post from titus it's actually the agenda-y fake thing I think titus do when scum.

[Frozen Angel]

idk how it would be an insult unless you really hated mulch or something idk

I don't hate mulch (or as I know him Amrock) I just know a lot of people who do though. me and he, we have a really different style though and I don't know what are you talking about xd

[Frozen Angel]

titus saying they voted numbers cause they voted for me as little looks good for titus

damn it reading her this game is a little harder than usual

[Frozen Angel]

{}
{human, molla, gamma, sakura, nancy, muffin,ank}
{nico,ircher,hebi,kokichi,mylo,rando,shiro,worst,titus,fa}
{sando, drixx, cerb}
{tora}

@FA: added you in

pedit: i dont think you have similar play. you just came first so it doesnt make sense to call anything of yours derivative to his lol

I still hate your readlist. I have a hard townread on tora mainly because meta but his play is also towny ignoring the meta. I don't know why you got the cerb drixx sando tire reads and how molla is up there?

is the tier I'm in null?

[Frozen Angel]

titus saying they voted numbers cause they voted for me as little looks good for titus

damn it reading her this game is a little harder than usual

ive noticed that i dont really sort titus, i generally just pick an alignment for her and im usually right

yeah I can say that I never misread her in any games we played together and there are a lot of them. this game is a little complicated cause they are doing mechanical base reads about votes on me which makes her intentions complciated. can't understand if it's scum agenda or she trying to make information that she can use for further reads.

[Frozen Angel]

I am pretty sure leader votes were popularity thing since the start of the game.

I'm fairly confident scum coordinated, but everyone seems to assume that means they coordinated to elect FA. I just think they coordinated to only vote one person each and minimise the risk, however small, that we nail em with it.

It's Titus' seeming confidence that they coordinated to elect FA

and

then not taking that to its logical conclusion that has me worried.

This post is so towny

and yes

titus being sure scum wanted me as the leader but not gunning me first with questions or mechanical push when she knows she can do that even without voting me is concerning AF.

She had been actievely avoiding to engage with me over anything

pedit yeah nos that helps

[Frozen Angel]

@shiro let me ask you this

if you elected anyone but FA, do you think people would read into it as maybe agenda driven? because you're so likely to vote for her anyway that it'd be suspicious if you voted for someone else?

I would suspect him as much as I would suspect you if you were not voting me.

[Frozen Angel]

@Sando

Titus moonlogics a lot though so I don't know how i feel about that.

its not moonlogic titus is assuming things by moonlogic and then not making the first conclusion that she can make like she has tmi

[Frozen Angel]

@Ank, I did. That's because scum likely had a hand in picking FA as leader. That very premise disagreement is why I am being wagoned by Tog.

If I suddenly said FA is town therefore scum did not pick her, the wagon on me would disintegrate.

I was trying and still am trying to counter the obvious. The three biggest early pushers on me, Numbers Cerb and Toog all voted for FA.

yeah thats not how this game works.

why do you think I was picked by scum? how is saying I'm town is backtricking from that stance? these are two seprate things as you mentioned even if scum picked me I can be a town person getting picked or a scum one.

why are you throwing dirt and acting like you're ok with me at the same time?

[Frozen Angel]

I should stick to MU. There my intelligence is respected even if disagreed. I don't get voted for mechanics disagreements and trying to sort from my theory.

You're literally suggesting a plan that:

1. Is likely to have at least one scum being picked for a superpower regardless just via statistics
2. Makes it so FA is not accountable for her picks
3. Makes it so FA can "happen" to have the picks land on scum if she's scum and claim they were random
4. Basically removes any readability from the mechanic, which is the biggest protown way to use it right now

This is a heavily proscum move and I see you in a better light than to assume you would suggest this as town, so you're scum.

1. This is true if FA picks as well. FA was picked by scum so they know how to manipulate her assuming she's town. Also if random they can get useful things.
2. She's not announcing (proscum) so she cannot be accountable anyway.
3. Yeah but she'll give scum PRs anyway if she picks if scum.
4. There isno readability if she won't claim.

I already said I will claim my peeks day 2. WHO IS MANIPULATING ME?

about 3 - then I will be accountable for my reads. as a fan of vca why do you want to deny my picks information?

[Frozen Angel]

FA claims her picks D2. Done.

That solves #4 and #2 by itself, #3 is still better for town because then she's more accountable for it, and #1 is higher information.

She said no. Not like we can pressure her.

what?

This is a lie!!!?!!!!!

VOTE: Titus

[Frozen Angel]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mind

1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.

Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.

Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.

what do you mean secret the prs? you mean my team? I'm not gonna announce who I'm gonna choose today. tomorrow I will out all players though

I don't get the last sentence and how is this related to my post though

How can you say that lie in game to dodge the push on you?!

[Frozen Angel]

She won't be leader day two.

But that leaves us where day 1?

Same predicament. I try to sort my theory. Get jumped. Try to create ideas that remove scum advantage. Get jumped. Like I get disagreeing with mh random theory and wanting to sort me but at least sort me and try to bring something better than out the PRs d2. It does nothing to solve d1.

Ok this is bullshit?

You did absolutely nothing today to sort me? why will be back where we are in day 1 tomorrow?!!

[Frozen Angel]

She won't be leader day two.

But that leaves us where day 1?

Same predicament. I try to sort my theory. Get jumped. Try to create ideas that remove scum advantage. Get jumped. Like I get disagreeing with mh random theory and wanting to sort me but at least sort me and try to bring something better than out the PRs d2. It does nothing to solve d1.

I don't understand what you're even trying to argue here

FA has no accountability D1. If I try to find who might be scum buddying FA, I get voted by all those who selected FA as leader. Thus negating my ability to find who it is. I get voted for being "incompetent" for trying to find a solution to scum possibily buddying FA.

The forcing FA to claim day 2 does nothing for Day 1. Scum already likely get their hooks in.

So what's your idea to stop FA from giving PRs to scum that are charismatic?

I think it's likely numbers because of the major pushback there.

UFO is just basically being UFO. Cerb was second place according to claimed votes, so he's probably buddied.

That leaves numbers.

you think 123456789 is manipulating me and is a charismatic scum here? or that I'm scum and that I will give them ability?

[Frozen Angel]

I think titus was trying all day to shade me without doing it - make sure scums are likely getting one ability out of night by randomizing it and to make me less accountable for the picks. This is not just moonlogic this is her lieing about what I clrealy said in thread and mixing stuff to make her point look better.

[Frozen Angel]

Titus: I might be misremembering, but I *think* FA just said she wasn't going to claim them today, and she didn't know what she would do tomorrow. I don't think she said she definitely wouldn't claim them tomorrow...she was just part of the conversation about the pro's and con's of it.

Valid point that pushing for the pure random thing is proscum, but it would be a prime example of classic Titus moonlogic for her to have reasoned that random is better than deliberate, if the person doing the picking is vulnerable to scum manipulation, without stopping and slapping herself because EVERYONE is subject to scum manipulation, so that means she's just arguing to always randomly select the person.

I'm also a little guilty of this, because I was focused purely on what might make it mathematically more likely that only town end up with abilities, and so expressed acceptance of there being possible value in a modified version of her suggestion.

I agree with substance but not sure why claiming PRs needs to be the accountability method but it may be the only one we have. I also may have misremembered but FA seemed to be against claiming it ever.

why you didn't look it up then?

[Frozen Angel]

Frozen Angel - Townish but maybe captured dunno

what does this even me?

[Frozen Angel]

Frozen Angel - Townish but maybe captured dunno

what does this even me?

mean*

[Frozen Angel]

gonna sleep see u guys tomorrow

[Frozen Angel]

I voted for Ankamius for leader

I picked Toranaga, Ankamius, Cerberus v666, Nancy Drew 39, Shiro

My only regret is shiro...

[Frozen Angel]

Like

I wasn't sure about him I had him in my list but I was thinking I shouls spend more time and choose someone I can truely trust but I didn't have time to do so

[Frozen Angel]

This means cerb didn't pick the bp thing. rip...

[Frozen Angel]

Also 1234-9 being scum means scum voted me for leader so probably I should have been more careful with choosing people who voted me. I didn't even realize I have all those people in my last list beside 1-9 till I saw 1-9 flip and checked the list again

[Frozen Angel]

I actually think Titus being leader over literally anyone else in this is suspicious AF

[Frozen Angel]

Also 1234-9 being scum means scum voted me for leader so probably I should have been more careful with choosing people who voted me. I didn't even realize I have all those people in my last list beside 1-9 till I saw 1-9 flip and checked the list again

What was the list of people that voted for you? Last I remember was that the rest looked fairly town, which suggests the "spread-out-to-make-it-null" theory I had yesterday.

the 4 people who claimed who voted me were Toranaga, cerb, shiro and 1-9

[Frozen Angel]

reading last page now why did you want the list hidden?

[Frozen Angel]

either titus is being voted to become the leader as a way for framing her or she is really scum and is open wolfing/double bluffing us by choosing herself as leader.

[Frozen Angel]

I can't see this town stacking votes to make her leader. This is definitely scum choice.

[Frozen Angel]

is there a point in claiming our votes? ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ

I actually think today vote claims are very informative.

[Frozen Angel]

Anyway I have a presentation tomorrow that I must work on. See you all tomorrow night.

[Frozen Angel]

sorry katscum page top belongs to queen shifty.

[Frozen Angel]

Sure I can make a list. I want NicorRobin, Katsuki and Drixx claim first

after them Kokichi Oma, , the worst, Human Sequencer, randomidget, Shiro, BBmolla, Sando, Nosferatu in order if it can happen.

[Frozen Angel]

we can ignore nico slot for and do the rest of the list in order if possible

[Frozen Angel]

nico votes are good.

also if titus is scum she is very likely scum with her as she voted for titus pregame over me. I think there was a good chance she would vote for me if she was completely unbiased as I returned to site.

[Frozen Angel]

we used to be really close I mean. her reason of "titus is great for town when she is town" thing didn't sit well with me but I was thinking maybe its because of some meta I'm not informed about.

[Frozen Angel]

No. I was probably made leader because town wanted it. I was right yesterday in that scum wanted FA. So why wouldn't town vote for me? Let's all claim our votes to see this. If it shows I should not have been the leader, I'll eat my words. We can then put FA or majority target today as the vote leaders. If I was duly elected as the leader, we can sort the players claiming to vote me and see if any might be scum voting.

I voted for Ank btw.

What the hell?

one of my voters flipped town and one flipped scum. No you were wrong in scum wanting me as the leader. Scum just didn't care to effect the leadership votes yesterday and NO Sane town would vote for you as leader today based on your scummy af yesterday

[Frozen Angel]

Plus I was right on scum voting for Frozen because she's malleable.

Who is scum in people I picked? WHo are the other scum who "Wanted" to make me leader and why are they scum?

[Frozen Angel]

Also @Titus You made a series of questionable lies yesterday about what I said in thread and a bunch of questionable "dumb tells" the way you do as scum to get your things done. Whenever you have time please comment on my last series of posts about you in last day phase.

[Frozen Angel]

there is at least one scum in

Ankamius: Missed Deadline
Brandi/NicoRobin: Missed Deadline
Gamma Emerald: Missed Deadline
hebichan: Missed Deadline
the worst: Missed Deadline
Nosferatu: Missed Deadline
Shiro: Cerberus v666

[Frozen Angel]

I feel like it's actually 2.

[Frozen Angel]

Plus I was right on scum voting for Frozen because she's malleable.

Who is scum in people I picked? WHo are the other scum who "Wanted" to make me leader and why are they scum?

Maybe you gave to zero, what scum expected of you doesn't mean they succeed. Scum wanted you as evidenced by Numbers being the tie breaking vote to elect you. Combine that with Cerb dying. Cerb wagon might be pure.

Numbers wanted you. He voted you.

Yes But I would never in hell give them a power role ever. You said they found me manipulatable. "THEY" wanted to pick me not just one scum. I wouldn't have been a leader with just one scum vote if they wanted to force it through. cerb died as a villa. Who else - in my alive voters is scum who wanted that happen that they could actually hope I would give them a power role? Shiro?

[Frozen Angel]

the worst, hebichan and shiro need another look imo

[Frozen Angel]

And why do you think you were not a scum selection again?

[Frozen Angel]

the worst, hebichan and shiro need another look imo

Why those 3?

They all claimed they voted for a dead person last night to be a leader or that they missed the deadline and they are the people who make most sense of being lieing about it in that list

[Frozen Angel]

And why do you think you were not a scum selection again?

Because I started the pressure on voters on your wagon. It resulted in a Numbers lynch. Even if town doesn't understand (charitable to call all active posters town), they wouldn't elect it.

I have to reread your posts about 1-9 and that wagon.

[Frozen Angel]

the worst, hebichan and shiro need another look imo

Why those 3?

They all claimed they voted for a dead person last night to be a leader or that they missed the deadline and they are the people who make most sense of being lieing about it in that list

There's others that missed the deadline too. I agree with the sentiment. I am just surprised BBMolla is not here given the argument scum selected me.

That was a list I made from the people from the votes that were claimed they didn't fly last night not based on the votes on you. We don't have all the vote claims yet to conclude anything about the votes on you.

[Frozen Angel]

You and drixx voted for cerb or claimed that if I'm right

And that makes neither of you town because of cerb flip

[Frozen Angel]

1-9 - frozen angel -
bbmolla - katsuki -
brassherald - gamma emmerald - pretty cool dude
cerberus - frozen angel - more likely to be voted and pick him as well
chickadee - the worst - more likely to be voted
drixx - cerberus - self evident reasons
frozen angel - shiro - cause she robbed his chance to be leader in a different game
gamma - kokichi - wanted to give him power and see what he can do
hebichan - kokichi - cause she likes him
human - muffin - cause he lead town in a different game
katsuki - didn't claim
kokichi - sakura - cause she is the protagonist in the story
mylo - didn't claim
nancy - cerberus - most rational player
nicorobin - titus - highest potential to help town
randomidget - cerberus - no need for explanation
sakura - muffin - played a great game as town last time
sando - duckling -
shiro - frozen angel -
the worst - nancy drew
titus - drixx - gets more readable as leader
toranaga - frozen angel - she is awesome
muffin - mylo

[Frozen Angel]

randomidget and drixx

yeah still think it's nai

[Frozen Angel]

why do you think cerb voters yesterday were town when obviously they were scattered or lieing as the votes on me were both from town and scum?

[Frozen Angel]

why do you think cerb voters yesterday were town when obviously they were scattered or lieing as the votes on me were both from town and scum?

Because Cerb was killed. If Cerb could be manipulated, they wouldn't need to kill him unless his reads were accurate.

"why do you think cerb voters yesterday were town when obviously they were

scattered or lieing

as the votes on me were both from town and scum

?"

They obviously didn't pile on one person. He was not chosen as leader for your manipulating idea to be even remotely accurate. I agree that his reads matters but the votes on him are NAI imo.

[Frozen Angel]

need to look at hebi I guess. Will do after my presentation which is in few hours.

[Frozen Angel]

The fact is Cerb does not have a reputation for liking players early. You do.

What reputation are you talking about?

Do you even know how I play?

[Frozen Angel]

I don't know about hebi have to iso the slot

will do later

[Frozen Angel]

The reputation you have for being warm and bubbly to anyone warm and kind to you. You're basically a mirror. If someone townreads you and is nice to you, 9/10 you will do the same back.

May I ask you to name 1 game this happened in?

[Frozen Angel]

I never give early reads.

My readlists usually doesn't have a town tier. My motto is "Never vomit reads". My play style is that to seprate alarming behaviors and anlyze the pattern of them accuring. to trust people who don't do that but always doubt their intentions.

That's how I play my mafia games. It's actually quite intresting that you claim my meta is giving so many reads early.

[Frozen Angel]

like you're literally lying about every part of my town meta to make your point go across. There are people here who have been playing with me recently and there are players here who played with me a year ago.

[Frozen Angel]

The reputation you have for being warm and bubbly to anyone warm and kind to you. You're basically a mirror. If someone townreads you and is nice to you, 9/10 you will do the same back.

May I ask you to name 1 game this happened in?

Any game I was scum against you. I think Math did it in Shadowrun specifically but it's something I have known about you for awhile.

I have that same flaw but on an intellectual level, which makes today more frustrating.

I was hard going on math in that game till she sent me a letter and claimed doctor who was healing me. So I holstered my push on her for a while to see how the game will go forward - just to get tricked by her and to die in the next adventure. how is that me giving an early read like you claimed?

[Frozen Angel]

I never give early reads.

My readlists usually doesn't have a town tier. My motto is "Never vomit reads". My play style is that to seprate alarming behaviors and anlyze the pattern of them accuring. to trust people who don't do that but always doubt their intentions.

That's how I play my mafia games. It's actually quite intresting that you claim my meta is giving so many reads early.

It's not a magical talisman but go back and check your selections and look at their tone towards you. You'll see I was right.

No you were not. I picked ufo and ank and cerb cause I had found them most towny in this game. I formed a read on nancy based on her play in this game. Shiro was just a place holder I didn't change before eod.

I didn't pick the people who voted me because they voted me. I didn't even realize they were on my list till eod happened and I find it triggering that you think I did.

[Frozen Angel]

like you're literally lying about every part of my town meta to make your point go across. There are people here who have been playing with me recently and there are players here who played with me a year ago.

Nah, you're just too proud to admit your vulnerability when I tell it straight to your face. Oh well.

Like I got flaws too and you could lay back into me to ensure I pick town. We can hash it out. Or you can pretend that my criticisms of you are worthless pointless and everything that happens is a coincidence. I'm ok with either but I prefer being honest with you.

I'm just asking you to show me my vulnerability. I really want to work on it if it's real yet you bring an example that has nothing to do with you claimed about me.

[Frozen Angel]

The reputation you have for being warm and bubbly to anyone warm and kind to you. You're basically a mirror. If someone townreads you and is nice to you, 9/10 you will do the same back.

May I ask you to name 1 game this happened in?

Any game I was scum against you. I think Math did it in Shadowrun specifically but it's something I have known about you for awhile.

I have that same flaw but on an intellectual level, which makes today more frustrating.

I was hard going on math in that game till she sent me a letter and claimed doctor who was healing me. So I holstered my push on her for a while to see how the game will go forward - just to get tricked by her and to die in the next adventure. how is that me giving an early read like you claimed?

Oh this is exactly the point.

Math did something nice for you.
You holstered your punch.

Scum are nice. You do things for scum.

Scum win.

So I went in assuming scum would do that.

She freaking claimed town doctor, messaged me who was town and talked about reads. she tried to set a code for speaking to me midday. what she was doing was towny. I didn't back off because she was nice. She tricked me by doing towny actions.