Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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First thing first: WOOOAAAAAHHHAHHAAAHHA
I'm the leader!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for choosing me guysss
I voted Shiro cause I robbed his chance of being the leader in bloodborne day 1
and cause I miss playing games with him / but this was applicable to more people/
and cause he is my firey twinnieFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Hey sando
were you playing on my Unforgiving mafia that was played offsite?
Your avatar has a quote from that game which is interesting oOFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Alright catching up!
First I must say
for choosing me <3
I'm really town and I really got voted by people for leadership n0 !!!!In post 15, Cerberus v666 wrote:Also, if anyone who WASN'T FA(or a couple of other people who I won't be naming) were elected, I would agree with you about the high scum probability. FA is in a unique situation, having recently returned to the game and being generally well known, so I'm not particularly surprised she was chosen.
I actually complained to the mod when I submitted my vote about that, noting that I thought it would be better if there were an open thread to talk about this, UNLESS scum were also unable to talk to one another while making this decision(thus, the question I asked), OR their membership was entirely devoid of "popular" players.
This feels kinda awesome XDFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I understand the pregame scum bias and how that will point out to me having more chance to be scum and that I can't do anything to refute that point but to say that I'm town and that I will use the rest of this day phase to show that.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Spoiler:
What does it mean when the mod is shrugging about scum pregame chat
Also the last part means no adventures xdFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Thing is I can see scum choosing me especially if they didn't have pregame chat cause they thought it will make me look worse and that I had a chance in this cause I just returned to ms and sign up thread showed excitement from a bunch of players who wanted to play with me.In post 27, Cerberus v666 wrote:@mod: Shush, don't go quoting your own ambiguous posts at me. We have no reason to assume that abilities won't be available AGAIN in a future phase, so clarification was necessary.
I see absolutely no benefit to the rush of having people express their choices ASAP.
Confirmation of daychat(which we should have assumed anyways means that assuming town doesn't lie, by claiming in advance of the person "most likely" to have been selected by scum(though only marginally more likely than others, as I said before) we give scum the ability to coordinate their claims and say whatever "fits" the situation as revealed by town. If they find out that without their set of votes, their selected teammate would not have won, they can deliberately distance by only having the requisite number of them claim to have voted for that individual. This is, of course, assuming FA is actually scum, or at the least a choice scum decided to make for whatever reasons.
Also, people claiming who they voted for without saying why are being bad and should feel bad for giving out the information most useful to scum, without sharing the information that's useful to town.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I already claimed my vote in my first post.In post 86, Sando wrote:FA I think for now you're someone who flat out shouldn't post their votee.
I can see the point of forcing you to generate a list of people to vote-claim in though. But that might be busy work and understandably tedious, dunno if anyone agrees with me on this point.False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Hi how are you bbmollaIn post 87, BBmolla wrote:I voted Katsuki and firmly believe he should have been leader.
Long time no see o/False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I like molla and katsuky votes on zmuffin
I like Toranaga so far he is doing his usual thingsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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But that post was clearly not an RVS even though human claimed it to be oneIn post 71, Sando wrote:
I understand what fence-sitting means, basically lack of commitment to reads.In post 65, Toranaga wrote:you should explain your reasons in clear manner so everyone knows what your mindset really is instead of playing mysteriously like your read is so relevant it should be left for later because of reasons. IDK what fence-sittery means and rather have it spelled it out for me and the thread.
But you can't say:
This is an RVS vote oh and by the way you're also fence-sitting which is scummy.
RVS is random, it does not pair well with a legitimate read.
not that it was scummy from human cause it wasn't and I liked his next post about itFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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why did you ask this?In post 76, Sakura Hana wrote:We had RVS?False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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XD
False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I have a rough guess of at least 3 more people who could have voted me in remaining players
If I won this with less than 5 votes that will suggest scums could not coordinate this on their members either so they didn't have a scum chat during pregame.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I don't know the best way for popcorning the pregame vote claim between remaining players
should we ask the people who I think voted me first or the rest
or people can just claim this all together and be done with it which might be minorly suboptimalFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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No I'm saying if I was chosen with less than 5 votesIn post 103, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
You don’t think any villas voted for youu?In post 98, Frozen Angel wrote:I have a rough guess of at least 3 more people who could have voted me in remaining players
If I won this with less than 5 votes that will suggest scums could not coordinate this on their members either so they didn't have a scum chat during pregame.
that means the 5 scum didn't coordinate the vote.In post 2, The Dream Weaver wrote:2. This game is comprised of an 18 player Aspiring Hero Faction and a 5 player Aspiring Villain faction.
I actually think there were always a bunch of towns who were voting me here because of my return to ms and because of friendship (for example I can't see Toranaga voting anyone else but me)
If a really high number - about 8/9 were voting me I would assume it was scum trying to pile up on me + some town but if I was nommed by 4/5 votes that means scums didn't have pregame chat and just couldn't pile on the votes on anyone.False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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yeah lets actually do thatIn post 104, Sando wrote:
My only thought outside of random was just saying no-one to claim anymore until everyone has posted and claimed to vote you (if they did). This means anyone who voted you and doesn't want us to know that can't know that they won't be caught out in a lie because the numbers on non-winner aren't known.In post 101, Frozen Angel wrote:should we ask the people who I think voted me first or the restFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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The big assumption is that: Scums wanted to pile on their votes to have a scum leadership today.
Which might be wrong because that would put the chosen person in the spotlightFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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elaborate why it is likelyIn post 109, zMuffinMan wrote:this could be the one and only game ever run on MS where scum didn't have pregame chat
seems likelyFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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In post 111, zMuffinMan wrote:well i just think after thousands of games that have been run with pre-game chat, brian decided "you know what? pregame chat sucks and i hate scum and i'm not gonna let them have it" and so he didn't
it just makes senseFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I can tell you that I'm like 95% sure that I had 2 more votes from the remaining playlist and that they would vote me regardless of alignment.
I can even see myself have upto 4 votes between the remaining playerlist.
Looking at this and the votes that are already claimed, it feels like that the scums were uncoordinated pregame or if they were coordinated they were not coordinated enough to bypass the votes on me (or they thought it's unnecessary)
one other theory is that they did pile up on me because they saw sign up thread and felt like I might have some votes so they just halped it happen to put me in spotlight but that feels kind of suboptimal. and they must be lieing about their votes if that's the case. or the people who would vote me regardless of alignment can be those scums.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Also 123456789 and Toranaga already claimed they voted for meFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Chikade lets say they could coordinate and they did
what do you think about the claimed votes so far?False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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This post is low key alarming on a reread.In post 49, brassherald wrote:I think the better practice would be to claim who you voted for, the reason and your favorite superhero.
Like me, I like Green Lantern, specifically, the one played by Ryan Reynolds. That movie is like Citizen Kane, but better.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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VOTE: zMuffinMan
why you don't elaborate your reads/pointsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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In post 130, zMuffinMan wrote:
dont feel like it atm // if i made any points, it was an accident and i apologiseIn post 129, Frozen Angel wrote:reads/pointsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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ok let me ask more direct questions
why do you think katsuki reaction in voting you were not pure?
why do you think bbmolla reaction was tentatively pure?
Please talk about your read on Toronaga and Human.
What is that Jesus Christ meaning?
why do you think sando is towny?False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I really want to think that I'm actually a good town and that the votes on me were not for petty or because of my special condition only
but yeah the reasons for votes are important. People with fresh meta on others can analyse that better though.
I can say that the two claimed votes on me were "made with town’s best interests in mind" and that I'm not freaked out by either.False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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lol <3In post 137, Cerberus v666 wrote:I voted for FA, because she was the person in the list who I felt had the greatest combined chance of being selected by the rest of the playerlist, AND putting me on her team. ^^
I consider it XDFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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In post 146, zMuffinMan wrote:hmm, ive actually been more forward with stating reads than i initially planned to be in this game so i'm going to stay quiet for a while and observe proceedings and maybe ask questions here or there
If any of these posts were made on MU you were already lynched or dayvigged. Huge culture differences... huuuuugeIn post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:I dont plan on putting much effort atm.
Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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We can have some of their good habits hereIn post 151, Sakura Hana wrote:Good thing this isnt MU then.
maybe that will help ms townsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I'm just saying I don't understand intentional transparency and avoiding to elaborate points with the excuse of I don't wanna try early. If it was for - yeah I'm busy IRL - or for -I'm not in the mood to play the usual way - it was understandable but - Hey I'm not gonna do anything cause I say so - is kinda ewwIn post 153, Cerberus v666 wrote:
For what it's worth FA, I did come into this with the intention of putting forward LOADS less effort than normal, so there's a place for it...I don't think that place is D1 though.In post 150, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 146, zMuffinMan wrote:hmm, ive actually been more forward with stating reads than i initially planned to be in this game so i'm going to stay quiet for a while and observe proceedings and maybe ask questions here or there
If any of these posts were made on MU you were already lynched or dayvigged. Huge culture differences... huuuuugeIn post 148, Sakura Hana wrote:I dont plan on putting much effort atm.
Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?
I do think I'm going to stop bloating the thread myself right now though, since I DID convince some people to play that aren't used to larges/didn't really wanna deal with the volume of a large game, so it would be rude to make that worse myself.False tears bring pain to those around you
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My early impression-reads is that a lot of town were talking so far so I expect at least 2 scum in people who are not talking
I feel good about cerb, sakura, nancy, Toranaga being my early townreads
I feel slightly good about Human and mola as second tier
Too early for having meaningful reads. just telling what its on top of my headFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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It's about understanding how you think about stuff, It's not just about what do you care about and don'tIn post 156, zMuffinMan wrote:because when i give reads, i get people asking why and i don't feel like answering why this early - you either follow my thought process or you don't and i don't particularly care if you don't atm
and you should care about people not having the same opinion/ not understanding your opinion cause they matterFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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how did that post imply that?In post 157, NicoRobin wrote:So you won't pick me?False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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I choose people who I think are town and I'm more confident in my reads on themFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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yeah, but we must have a day 1 and day 2 to reach that endgame. tvts and discussions produce the content needed for the late stage that you're talking aboutIn post 163, Sakura Hana wrote:
1 - I already have a hard time keeping track of everyone in such a large game, so im stating already im not putting effort so i dont have to answer questions about people i dont even remember.In post 150, Frozen Angel wrote:Why would anyone want to reduce their amount of effort intentionally and how will that help?
2 - I have noticed that putting more effort D1 just causes a lot of arguing and in fighting and TvTing and i just dont want to deal with that stress.
3 - Scums are easier to find lategame anyway.
Based on this, i decided to do a change of approach this game and see how it goes. That way i can relax, and then start analyzing when there's more information out in the open.
besides that, it's a fair approach to put more effort into the game when you can [lategame].False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Yeah I doubt anyone can win any games as the town with this approach everIn post 166, zMuffinMan wrote:
when i feel like lynching someone or when someone i think is likely town is going to be lynched, then i will say so and perhaps explain whyIn post 161, Frozen Angel wrote:you should care about people not having the same opinion/ not understanding your opinion
otherwise, i honestly don't care right now what you think of me or my reads
I mean beside - by getting carried by others who cared enough to contribute to game for real
which makes me question the honesty of this answer. Are you trying to sort a series of excuses to avoid conversations that can be used to evaluate your mindset or are you really just not cooperating because you're lazy? I feel it's the first in this case because the tone of this response is off.False tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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In post 169, zMuffinMan wrote:think what you want to thinkFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Mulch is Amrock?In post 199, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Oh dear lawdy are you gonna be Mulch 2.0In post 154, Frozen Angel wrote:
We can have some of their good habits hereIn post 151, Sakura Hana wrote:Good thing this isnt MU then.
maybe that will help ms townsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Toranaga explain that voteFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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ok 3 people claimed they voted me That is way under than what I thought I had
either scum really didn't have a pregame chat - they decided to split vote and allow town to choose people - or they voted me cause they think they can control meFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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or that they didn't want to do itIn post 227, Frozen Angel wrote:so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.False tears bring pain to those around you
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yeah, which means:In post 229, Toranaga wrote:
if scum voted you and you're town, they don't have to lie about it. the 3 people that voted you making you leader leads to me thinking scum votes were spread out to avoid associative reads, especially if you won with just 3 votes. wolves can have pregame chat AND not coordinate their votes in any way, cause that leaves a readable paper trail town can figure things out with.In post 226, Frozen Angel wrote:ok 3 people claimed they voted me That is way under than what I thought I had
either scum really didn't have a pregame chat - they decided to split vote and allow town to choose people - or they voted me cause they think they can control me
so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this or that they didn't want to do itFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS VIVE LA FRANCEFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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OhIn post 234, Cerberus v666 wrote:FA, at least 4 people said they voted you right? Myself, Shiro, and two others who responded earlier?
What surprises me is that I had at least 3 votes! If I hadn't voted for you, and nobody else voted for you, I could have been leader! !!
I didn't count you
yes 4 people voted me with you I was miscountingFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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what do you mean secret the prs? you mean my team? I'm not gonna announce who I'm gonna choose today. tomorrow I will out all players thoughIn post 232, Titus wrote:
Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mindIn post 228, Frozen Angel wrote:
or that they didn't want to do itIn post 227, Frozen Angel wrote:so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.
1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.
Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.
Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.
I don't get the last sentence and how is this related to my post thoughFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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And I'm not gonna ever randomize the people I choose to get prsFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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actually
@Mod if we learn an ability, is that ability permanent or is it just for one-night phase?False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Are you trying to say that giving random people abilities is more optimal than giving one to my town reads?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Yeah, I don't think I'm that shit to be less accurate than random.In post 247, Titus wrote:
Unfortunately yes, but it is mathmatecially optimal not playing mafia for fun optimal.In post 244, Frozen Angel wrote:Are you trying to say that giving random people abilities is more optimal than giving one to my town reads?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Oh you met him lolIn post 248, Titus wrote:
Hi. I don't think we've met. I'm the queen of votes and mechanics. I detest d1 because there is little of either. D1 is people trying to puff up themselves.In post 245, Toranaga wrote:FA, check #205 by titus. I find the flat out assumption that scum coordinated their votes to you strange. also her entire ISO is just these mechanical talking points that aren't solid towny thoughts.False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Ok ufo has a point hereIn post 205, Titus wrote:I voted for Drixx. I felt that him as leader makes him more readable and gets him to form reads earlier.
FA as leader, assuming scum could coordinate, suggests scum are at a minimum trusting of FA's judgement which is wierd
Why did you assume that the scums piled their votes on me?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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What is the benefit of publicly announcing who I'm choosing?
Unless if we're saying it will be a consulting thing and we all are gonna choose one of my peek togetherFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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maybe we can decide someone and ask them to choose night protection abilities - I think there was a bp oneFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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See you in the finaleIn post 261, Randomnamechange wrote:
SEE WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE ELECTEDIn post 236, Frozen Angel wrote:WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS VIVE LA FRANCE
DEMOCRACY HAS FAILED ONCE AGAIN
if you can get past both Sweden and Croatia thoughFalse tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Yes, which is why I will never do it randomly. Unless if its random from a little group of people I have town reads on.In post 262, Sakura Hana wrote:It's obvious why the existance of a scum leader is good for the scum team, they would be able to know which players have superpowers.
As a town leader you're uninformed and may end up inadvertedly giving scum a superpower.
Suffice to say, I think im not gonna rely on PRs to find scum, that mechanic is swing af, and it also puts a lot of pressure on whoever the current leader is.
"But with great power, comes great responsibility"False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?False tears bring pain to those around you
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"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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The reason I'm asking it in the first place is that Alisae is mentioned there.In post 268, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Alisae is mentioned in there for some reason. Otherwise, no clue.In post 267, Frozen Angel wrote:Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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@Titus can you explain your math? why random is mathematically optimum in your opinion?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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Frozen Angel SheQueen ShiftyShe
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Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie-
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