A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[jjh927]

NSG does seem to be quite a popular wagon. That seems like a good place to start.

[jjh927]

Those uses do sound like scum claims but they aren't what's going to happen

[jjh927]

It's bedtime for me now anyway

[jjh927]

Shit me I'm gonna wake up to something good


Jingle you've seen me play scum lmao

[jjh927]

The post restriction being optional was not something I considered when making the push on Vecna. It was a new possibility. A lot of my read came from the mechanics of designing post restrictions that don't ruin games for players. The IC claim was some low effort Hull crap and the argument of how he wanted to limit how much he was doing the colour thing was pretty bullcrap too, but my immediate reaction to his early day 2 was that he was town.

I've not metadived NicoRobin yet because I had an important presentation to give yesterday, and if I was reading shit I should have been reading scientific papers. For what it's worth, I don't think I'd have been as distracted by this game as scum, because I find it a chore to play scumgames. You really should metadive me.

At the end of the day, I am still more confident in my NicoRobin scumread than I have ever been in any read I have ever had. It does not feel right to push elsewhere at this time. Furthermore, my stance as to why has not changed. None of the positions I have taken are mutually exclusive.



I agree that using my ability is mechanically suboptimal, but there is more than mechanics at play and the difference in the mechanics isn't particularly great.





To anyone irrationally scared of voting - please use hurt tags

[jjh927]

Reminder that in (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today

[jjh927]

What you need to do, creature, is vote on someone for Mastina to gladiate

[jjh927]

I would like to know that as well

[jjh927]

Creature read the fucking game

[jjh927]

Let's have another quick summary for you and any other future lazy arses


In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today.

It will be obvious it is me because I will announce it before, and then RC will come up and say people's votes are locked. Only people who are voting at the time of the freeze will be affected. However, the use of my ability would cause abilities such as gladiates to fail, meaning if we are going to make use of Mastina's gladiate today, then that is to be done before that timer runs out and I freeze the votes.



So basically, vote on the gladiate target or we're lynching like normal

[jjh927]

I don't really think he is.

He's doing similar kinds of mechanicsy shit as he did in this game, especially noting that I believe he was trying to push a mechanical pro scum!NR strat wrt mastina earlier which links the two together. I would also bring attention to this game as I was scum with Jingle there and him scumreading me after seeing my scumgame there is laughable

[jjh927]

Yeah but if you're gonna do that then get her to gladiate someone first

[jjh927]

Who do you think she should gladiate

[jjh927]

So you haven't had time to meta NR, but you abandoned the angle of "There's no way she would pull a stunt like this as town" and shifted to "She's doing this to manipulate meta for mastina" for what reason now?

They're the same angles

This is a caricature of what she might do as town

[jjh927]

I don't understand what you're saying here now

[jjh927]

Fuck it let's wagon up

VOTE: Jingle

I'll settle for doing NR afterwards

[jjh927]

My push changed drastically after Mastina made a defence of NR

[jjh927]

Yeah I do

[jjh927]

but she actually made a long defence post

[jjh927]

Yeah because it's an experience from Spring Fever

[jjh927]

I've seen this exact thing where someone who supposedly should have good accuracy at reading Yume because of experience with her hard townreads her because of a manipulation of her play. In that case it was with Titus and exposing that manipulation was part of my case on Yume.

[jjh927]

You still don't understand my angle.

She is good at understanding what specific people might look for. This only became a relevant point after Mastina made the defence, Mastina being the player in the game on whom she was most focused on early on

[jjh927]

She is, however, a relatively simple person, and I don't think concerning yourself with macro "She did this thing as town here" meta is worth it at all. You want to go more subtle on the meta. Tendencies, motivation and the like

[jjh927]

My summation of the game included the fact that mastina was a mason with her in that game, and yet it was the perfect example. So by your own logic of "she was doing it to manipulate mastina" how was it "the perfect game to meta."

Because it should be a good place to look for the subtle shit that I'm trying to test out here.

[jjh927]

These are literally opposite viewpoints from you. Either that game is a perfect example from which to draw meta, in which mastina's meta defense is fine, or it's not. You've taken both directly contradictory stances, because you're not trying to read NR. You're trying to lynch NR.

My meta approach is different

It's a perfect game for me to test my approach

However I disagree with the points you and Mastina made regarding that game

[jjh927]

You think I can possibly manipulate mastina, a God tier player?

Well, I thank you for overestimating my skillz, but be realistic here.

Also, your case relies on the fact that I am smart enough to reverse-pocket Titus, when that is simply not true. If I were scum, she'll snuff me out faster that you can blink.

[jjh927]

There's so much more of this "stupid shit"- the role related stuff- that it makes more sense that she is actively doing it because Mastina and apparently you will townread her for it as she has done similarly before and that was commented on before she went and did even more stupid shit

[jjh927]

She also had to abort the 1V1 with Mastina when she couldn't conceivably win it

[jjh927]

I guess in a way I'm also misplacing anger at the lack of votecounts

[jjh927]

But I do think the pressure to decide on someone who you can gladiate would be really helpful if we had some way of keeping track of who wanted what

[jjh927]

Hey fire, do you know why I know you're town

[jjh927]

wow rude

at least I know you'd never try to nightkill me

[jjh927]

I mean you just linked a fuckton of games without making a point about them

[jjh927]

I could say that you being exposed to more towngames by virtue of random chance and the ratio of town to scum in mafia games means you're more likely to see things pop up in town games

[jjh927]

Also oh snap I forgot about once upon a time

yeah you just linked another example of where I caught scum Yume. That time we got her to set herself on fire

[jjh927]

I'm not saying she's so much of a master manipulator, more that she can mimic her towngame as well as observe on a macro-level what other people might be looking for in her play. In this playerlist, who do you think scum!Yume would be most concerned about reading her?

[jjh927]

Also I clearly have some kind of magical powers because I've got her to nightkill herself as scum twice, and this is likely the second time she has failed to kill me

[jjh927]

Word on the street is that scum mastina never gets wagoned

[jjh927]

I was getting kinda town vibes from Varsoon personally

There's a lot of role stuff between me and Varsoon that I'm really conflicted on though, so it's only kinda town vibes



He's definitely a candidate for the gladiating that I would support

[jjh927]

Like if we're gonna use Varsoon's ability to lynch following the Mastina gladiate, then I'd rather she gladiates someone who is fairly null and sane rather than someone who is scummy but lacks common sense because if we don't hit scum I'd rather have conftowns that make sense rather than the literal bottom of the barrel


Jingle, Varsoon, and NSG are all good candidates for that

[jjh927]

I might give an extension on my countdown to ZA WARUDO, which is currently at(expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00), because I feel like we could all really use a votecount right now

[jjh927]

read the fucking game

[jjh927]

1)

Spoiler: The MEME Men

I'm a double voter town with one shot investigation ability of some sort who will win gladiates if a gladiator targets us. I just had a crisis in life and had to flake and whenever I was online on ms this thread was locked.

I will need till night to catch up and read stuff about this game and to try to communicate with my hydra partner. If I can't get that to work I will replace out

~Sora

2) Northsidegal
3)

Spoiler: Firebringer

wait my role gives guns not allows me to shoot...

u troll rc.

I will give a gun to whoever promises to shoot gamma if he isn't lynched.

4)

Spoiler: Nicorobin

p-edit: Rolecop and triplevoter.

5)

Spoiler: Mastina

I was expecting a troll role when I submitted my picks, and hoh boy did RC not disappoint.

I am Ginngie, Hated Loyal Gladiator

.
Outside of lylo/mylo (which is purely by the numbers, per the role wording), I take one less vote to lynch.
I can gladiate anyone by claiming a guilty on them, but if they're not town-aligned, it'll fail.

I can maybe, MAYBE use this as a conditional cop, IF we can no-lynch after a gladiate (I need to ask RC about this), but if not, yeahhhhh...

6) Gamma Emerald
7)

Spoiler: Chickadee

I'm a video vendor. I can vend any time.

8) Skygazer
9)

Spoiler: Varsoon

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

10)

Spoiler: KuroiXHF

I'll die, but I'll come back. And I won't flip.

BTW, I can post at night. I am alive, but not the same as everyone else.

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14)

Spoiler: Vecna

Alright here goes. Im sort of waiting for someone to pop their head in, but explaining stuff wont hurt (or maybe it will, but itll all be alright). Also on mobile and not at home so this may go in pieces.

JJH was on the right track, but he was asking completely the wrong questions.

My post restriction day1 was optional. The original restriction was that I could only state I am cornholio and that i need tp for my bunghole. I was cheeky and asked RC if I could also use the other cornholio quotes to make it less bland. he hesitantly agreed. I could not vote day1 without ruining the restriction. The reason I did not want to continue too much with the answering questions was that I felt it was not in line with the spirit of the role design, and RC had already given me more leeway in what I could do. I felt if I continued it might result in me failing the clause and it being for nothing. Besides that, asking someone with a PR to provide rainbow reads in his formatting somehow, while hardly anyone else is asked such a thing was complete bullcrap. Thats why instead you got rainbow trolling.

The only reason jjh was on my case was because he thought my quotes had ran out. If you just wouldve asked if my pr would last past day1 as a followup, all that nonsense wouldve been prevented. Regardless, I got run up. It is what it is. I claimed IC as an easy way out to at least be able to defend myself today. I judged that if I suddenly started talking normally I definately wouldve been the lynch.

Needless to say I do not have a literal IC role. Its similair'ish but nowhere near as definitive.

My role has three parts:
-I can visit someone at night and harass them. It will be revealed to them that I am beavis, village idiot.
-If anyone visits my house at night, they will hear the music that I am listening too (can choose a song each night).
-If I survive day1 while fullfilling my posting restriction, one of those abilities gets upgraded. Im not revealing what it is, and if any town finds out, please keep it quiet - unless I ask you otherwise.

More later

15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle
19) Nero Cain
20) Creature
21)

Spoiler: jjh927

Yo I'm deathproof and I can freeze people's votes in place

22) Aristophanes



Did I miss anyone

[jjh927]

I think it's just how having a fuck ton of day voting related abilities goes


Varsoon's essentially breaks up the gladiate though, whereas mine prevents it from happening. However, I think based on how other voting related stuff works with his like double voters and shit, if people have their votes frozen they might not be able to vote? It's difficult because we can't really ask "How would my role interact with a normal X" with this

[jjh927]

FWIW, from not my perspective I'm the optimal clear.

Confirming town me confirms the presence of a loud doc in the game.

The mechanical implications of that are really weird though:
-Why have a town mastina-role and a town loud-doc in the same setup? Extremely broken at face value
-If the last point is still true; why have scum not used the power that can offset that balance to kill Mastina last night?
-Why on earth was this loud doc on you?

Leads me strongly to believe that one of several of the following has to be true:
-Either Mastina or the loud doc have to be scum
-Or scum was not trying to kill JJH but Mastina last night, and this is a scum jingle rolefishing.....
-Or scum decided to not kill Mastina, or any of her clears, to raise suspicion and mount a massive lynch attempt on Mastina today
-Or scum has a watcher-type role that is meant for them to eliminate any protectives on Mastina

I'm not getting bored of jojo memes it's just that sometimes not everything is a motherfucking jojo reference

But fwiw I also think 1 is likely

[jjh927]

VOTE: NicoRobin

[jjh927]

I might give an extension on my countdown to ZA WARUDO, which is currently at (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00), because I feel like we could all really use a votecount right now

My halloween roleplaying event went well but it meant I couldn't post for most of today. Furthermore, we got our votecount but it took its time. Therefore, as I am a reasonable man, I am extending the deadline to halloween.

GMT of course. So that's (expired on 2018-10-31 00:00:00) away.

Merry dootmas everyone

[jjh927]

I might give an extension on my countdown to ZA WARUDO, which is currently at(expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00), because I feel like we could all really use a votecount right now

Backing out so easily? XD

Hey JJH!

If you think there is slam dunk scum in Varsoon and mastina you should 100% freeze votes now because they are the only viable wagons i believe!

It would take our options solely into your own reads but it is an interesting thought!

Ari scum?

[jjh927]

But yeah today I remembered that the true meaning of dootsmas is to demand something you would like and fuck people over if they don't give it to you so it's a pretty fitting deadline

[jjh927]

They are not

[jjh927]

But even if they were it would be anti-town af

I'd rather minimise the damage from the freeze itself while freezing for the sake of preventing the gladiate so people know I mean business

[jjh927]

But even if they were it would be anti-town af

I'd rather minimise the damage from the freeze itself while freezing for the sake of preventing the gladiate so people know I mean business

How would it be antitown if you were fairly confident in those reads?

Also, this game is stalled because of the gladiate and the promise of this freeze now. I'm just getting bored of waiting. It fees like there's nothing to do since the game will sort itself out anyway.

We've got a lot of shit going on now. You were involved in some of the less useful discussion, but it's still some of the discussion. Discuss the shit

[jjh927]

I think it's concerning that Mastina wasn't online anywhere near to my original deadline

[jjh927]

Who cares, youre either scum thatll be revealed, or you'll be towncleared. Being towncleared is awesome since you can do and say stuff and have more weight attached, and your ability is not a enormous loss if the towncleared status forces scum to NK you in due time.

Then why did you claim ic

[jjh927]

I mean, that's precisely what NicoRobin has not done

but I don't think a no result was likely to be possible and she still hasn't answered Jingle's question

It's one of the more objective reasons that we should be gladiating NR

[jjh927]

Like, it would have been super nice to be able to say that both NR and Mastina are objectively the same alignment

[jjh927]

Town

[jjh927]

New approach

Could people hurt tag their top 2-3 gladiate choices for me to collect later

[jjh927]

New approach

Could people hurt tag their top 2-3 gladiate choices for me to collect later

Beat you by a post jingle

[jjh927]

But yeah I want this to be as smooth as possible wrt selecting a gladiate target in a way that does not take an excessively long amount of time

[jjh927]

HURT: NicoRobin, Jingle, Aristophanes

[jjh927]

Votes on people who aren't mastina as of or following the most recent votecount translate as hurts. If you would like to no longer be represented as wanting to hurt someone, use a heal tag or just be generally outraged and I will probably pick it up.

jjh927's hurtcount #1

Gladiate Target	# of hurters	Hurters
Varsoon	6	Northsidegal, Creature, Porkens, Skygazer, The MEME Men, Vecna, Chickadee
Nicorobin	3	Invisibility, Vecna, jjh927
Aristophanes	2	Chickadee, jjh927
Northsidegal	2	The MEME Men, Invisibility
Jingle	1	jjh927
jjh927	1	Nicorobin
Porkens	1	Vecna
Lady Angel	1	Skygazer
Vecna	1	Invisibility
Not Hurting	-	Aristophanes, KuroiXHF, Mastina, Lady Angel, Jingle, Gamma Emerald

I will use ZA WARUDO in (expired on 2018-10-31 00:00:00) unless Mastina gladiates someone.

[jjh927]

Beat you by a post jingle

Yeah, but mine was prettier.

Right back at you

[jjh927]

Wait did you collect people's opinions from things that aren't vote or hurt tags

that is above and beyond

[jjh927]

I spent most of my time on the table formatting

[jjh927]

I realised I also missed everyone who was voting Mastina off the not hurting list but w/e

[jjh927]

You're not limited to 3 on mine either fwiw

I'm also probably gonna stop even though mine look cooler and you're not reminding people of the deadline

[jjh927]

Jingle, please remove the information that you gathered from posts, and only count actual hurt tags here. I want to know the actual score on Varsoon now that people have to take a stance. I want to know who is ignoring this NR thing. The varsoon number is hyper-inflated, with at least people like Porkens not being willing to take a stance and some other votes that are not actually there.

I could revisit my hurtcount if you want

[jjh927]

HURT: Varsoon, jjh, Jingle, Porkens

See, now why would NR not want to get gladiated here while she knows everyone is extremely suspicious of her, and she will have full role access if she gets town-cleared. Suddenly the vote on Varsoon appears.

Fakeclaim a guilty.
Probably fake-claim a no result.
Change and walk back your claim three times.
Trying to avoid being towncleared while under so much scrutiny, while your role requires cooperation.

And people are somehow still voting to have Varsoon gladiated over this. I know I was guilty of it for a little while out of boredom, but c'mon.

Feels really fucking iffy, especially considering all these weird votes for me over the IC thing.

Note that the no result is also the ONLY result that we would consider gladiating anyone other than NicoRobin. I'll put the thought that the no result makes no sense aside for a second and we consider the other possibilities:

Does not corroborate claim. In which case, Mastina targets NR and the guilty resolves itself.
Corroborates claim. In which case, Mastina targets NR and we either get a guilty or we get to say both of them are objectively the same alignment, which is super helpful

[jjh927]

the only reason nr would be scum with mastina then is if they both are.

You might want to revisit your use of logic

[jjh927]

Especially since I think I get what you were trying to say and it's wrong

[jjh927]

As far as the NR being a good gladiate target post, I agree with you. Note, she is the only one of my townreads I support gladiating.

Checkmate Jingle scumreads himself

[jjh927]

Bold my name on NicoRobin plz

[jjh927]

Reminder that I will use ZA WARUDO in 0 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes unless Mastina gladiates someone


Where the fuck is Mastina

[jjh927]

Over 3 days since her last post

[jjh927]

Curse you Vecna you stole the pagetop I was gonna use for my meme

[jjh927]

Ngl I just wanted to do that meme before I ditch the facade

[jjh927]

We've got some really good discussion here that Mastina should weigh into and then gladiate following a functional majority

[jjh927]

I assure you it's fuckin hilarious and highly relevant

[jjh927]

but also inaccurate to the update seconds afterwards because I don't intend to use my role

[jjh927]

How are you not fluent in bad photoshop anyway that's like the pinnacle of memes

[jjh927]

I am pissed off because people expect me to call them by correct pronoun all the time and flip out on me when I don't, but will not extend the same courtesy to me. >.>

Since we're doing posts unrelated to the game, I'll hit you with just the one and hopefully it will give you some perspective.

Gender identity is of mixed importance to different people, but the most likely to get actively angry when the wrong pronoun is used are those who experience dysphoria when misgendered. The vast majority of even these people, however, will understand that A. people can make mistakes and B. most people on the internet will default to assuming other people are male. It becomes an issue when it seems like a personal attack; that someone has made the mistake so many times and been corrected on it each time. Alternatively, at that point, it would be total disrespect, as the person simply makes no effort to use the correct pronouns for different people. Sometimes people actually use that as a defence. It is not a defence. It is just a different way of being a bad person.

However, this whole "That person is a bad person" thing is very much a multiple-strikes issue. It seems immensely unlikely that any significant percentage of people has, in fact, flipped out on you for a single incorrect pronoun usage. Furthermore, what you are essentially trying to do is expose an uncommon hypocrisy with blatant hypocrisy. What is it you are fighting for? Do you just want to flip out after someone uses the incorrect pronoun once? Or do you want to be able to make the odd mistake now and then? Because the first is questionable, the second is already the case, and the two are incompatible.

Basically, I flipped out to show all of you how that feels.

Ah. There is what you are fighting for. Understand that you serve as a harmful caricature of those to whom this is an important issue.

[jjh927]

Mastina going missing and the game not being able to progress is a good example of what many of us are concerned about

[jjh927]

Varsoon be like

[jjh927]

That was actually a protown use of his ability though in that using it like that was scumclaiming and helped us lynch scum

[jjh927]

In other news, Varsoon going completely batshit crazy there actually gave us info

I would surmise that there must be scum in the gladiate Varsoon wagon, as scum would have had full freedom to vote elsewhere without anyone knowing and if it was all town then Varsoon would have known completely the outcome of his ability use

I'm also further convinced Mastina is town because scum!Varsoon just self-destructed while complaining about how powerful her role was

[jjh927]

I still want
VOTE: NicoRobin
more than I want to think, unless anyone else wants to scumclaim

But yeah, I've got a lot of mixed vibes on Nero and haven't really put much thought into Creature

[jjh927]

Yeah I voted Varsoon

I wanted to vote NicoRobin but there was a risk of a bunch of tools voting Mastina and Varsoon scumclaimed

[jjh927]

We don't really get anything out of this though? Scum can lie and we would have no way to disprove them

[jjh927]

I think we should go right back to hurtcounts tbh

[jjh927]

We don't really get anything out of this though? Scum can lie and we would have no way to disprove them

I think you lied. Specifically, lied about being bulletproof.

I never said I was bulletproof. I said deathproof

[jjh927]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

[jjh927]

But yeah I think you shot me so I also think you're lying about thinking I'm lying

[jjh927]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

[jjh927]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

Actually, it didn't. The mod was just late in giving me the info. :/

Then how come I haven't been sent anything?

[jjh927]

Wait do NR was redirected?

So she claims

[jjh927]

She's at least saying she intended to target me

[jjh927]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - NSG
Porkens - V?
Creature - M
Firebringer - M
Invisibility - NR
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V
Lady Angel - V

Okay, so the reason this is important, is because as people flip we can put things together.

Varsoon - (10) Jingle, Vecna,

Mastina,

NicoRobin, Meme Men, Porkens, NSG, JJ, Lady Angel,

Chickadee

Mastina - (4) Creature, Firebringer, Aristophanes,

Varsoon

Nico - (1) Vizzy
NSG - (1) Nero
Firebringer - (1) Gamma Emerald
Didn't vote- Adalbert Steiner, Skygazer

5 Scum, none of which would have voted for Varsoon. All of which had the opportunity to vote anonymously, and thus would have chosen whoever was most likely to be a viable mislynch. If mastina is town, that's mastina. That means, at most, the Varsoon wagon can have had 3 people claiming to be on it as scum, mathematically. Additionally, people who weren't voting Varsoon, or who were voting mastina, etc. can be asked to justify their votes.

You may have noted that Chick is presumed to be on the Varsoon wagon. That's because that is the possibility that gives scum the least opportunity to manipulate the information later.

Skygazer and Adalbert on the other hand were both pending replacement, so neither could have voted.

That's a really good angle and honestly I'm surprised I didn't see it, but that said I was anticipating the entirety of the game saying they voted Varsoon. Let's comment on this having shifted those green tags to only include Mastina- on the basis that Mastina would not self vote, throwing in Varsoon's inevitable Mastina vote, and correcting your whole mistake with Gamma Emerald and Firebringer.

Assuming 5 scum including Varsoon, so 4 unknown scum. If all 4 of them are claiming to be on the Varsoon wagon there, then them being on the Mastina wagon instead would have lynched Mastina.
Similarly, if 3 scum claim to be on the Varsoon wagon and 1 on some random other unimportant wagon, then Mastina could have also been lynched.

[jjh927]

5 scum is the more conservative estimate in this case

If there are 6 scum, this gets even better

[jjh927]

I guess the potential for 3p wildcards this a bit but

While I am making some assumptions here, there's got to be at least 1 scum in Creature, Firebringer, Aristophanes

[jjh927]

I think Varsoon said that double voters and shit would work, but based on the PM I think that was a lie

[jjh927]

Actually looking at it again I guess it could make sense but I don't really like how RC has phrased it in the case where they do

[jjh927]

Yo meme men, did you get to vote twice

[jjh927]

Okay yeah pretty sure RC would have been like "No you can only vote once" if you could in fact only vote once so double voting was in play

which makes it more likely that you are town as you would have swayed it harder tbh

but at the same time it makes it harder to make deductions

[jjh927]

Let’s lynch the flashing ducknow

You couldn't if you tried

[jjh927]

Let’s lynch the flashing ducknow

You couldn't if you tried

Well you could and I'd flip because scum already killed me once but I'd still be around to talk shit at you and post memes

[jjh927]

How USELESS would you have to be to actually need a body to talk shit at people am I right

[jjh927]

I dunno I'm pretty sure I just said I'm deathproof

[jjh927]

Also I think I recall saying it was modified somehow

[jjh927]

I don't think I ever claimed full deathproof because that would be crazy bullshit

[jjh927]

Any bullshittery surrounding my claim is obviously to keep things unsure for whether or not scum should kill me anyways

[jjh927]

that said if you thought I was infinitely deathproof then lmao

[jjh927]

Dunno really

I just don't like leaving things unresponded to that much even if they don't really deserve responses

[jjh927]

VOTE: jjduck

I have a guilty on this

No you don't

[jjh927]

-Am town
-Have no night action
-By extension no gun
-Role PM says evil mastermind I guess but it's written in green

[jjh927]

I voted Fire because I felt like it was the most sure lead I had
And why should I be voting mastina?

Did you not think about who there was any actual chance of lynching then?

[jjh927]

-Am town
-Have no night action
-By extension no gun
-Role PM says evil mastermind I guess but it's written in green

Interesting reaction lol. My first assumption was that it was porkens bullshitting, but you straight away jump to this.

Whats your flavour?

DIO

[jjh927]

But yeah, my reaction is that I know that a guilty on me is literally impossible for the combination of those reasons so it's gotta be bullshit

[jjh927]

Competency requires consistency

[jjh927]

You think wrong

[jjh927]

No I mean your thinking is wrong and it's concerning

[jjh927]

You assume Mastina's gladiate will succeed on Wheme but think she should gladiate Wheme

[jjh927]

why the fuck would we do that

[jjh927]

I mean I don't want to see her lynched anyway but I feel like if the gladiate fails then, with the exception of the scenario where mastina lied about the trigger for the gladiate, it's a guaranteed guilty

[jjh927]

Wait what the shit

[jjh927]

So what skygazer no longer existed?

This is some revisionist history shit over here

[jjh927]

Yes except he modkilled sky and now sky doesn't exist any more and instead we have Shoshin who could be town, 3p or scum based on the simultaneous change to the number of things in the game and Shoshin's entry

[jjh927]

motherfuckin chaos theory

Skygazer's inactivity just changed the nature of the game

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

Uuuuuh

you aren't on any signup lists

[jjh927]

Also Skygazer objectively got modkilled except RC just said nobody got modkilled and crossed Skygazer out of the list of dead players

[jjh927]

Skygazer was smited for inactivity! She was

A misguided man who just read Lorenz's famous paper On chaos theory ("Does the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil set off a tornado in Texas?") and is now off to Brazil with three months of camping supplies and a butterfly net in an attempt to do something with that information, Town Very Intelligent Person

.

Spoiler: Role PM

That fucker who beat me in pool is going to regret the fuck out of that shit. I will destroy his fucking house.

Welcome, Skygazer. You are

A misguided man who just read Lorenz's famous paper On chaos theory ("Does the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil set off a tornado in Texas?") and is now off to Brazil with three months of camping supplies and a butterfly net in an attempt to do something with that information, Town Very Intelligent Person

, Conditional Night Skipper.



Tornado (Night Skipper): If you manage to trigger a tornado in Texas, it will skip a night.
Plane to Brazil (Night Zero): You are currently flying to brazil. You don't have an action right now.

You win when the Mafia have been removed and at least one Townie is still alive.

Chickadee has died! She was

A Song Stuck in Somebody's Head, Spammy Annoyance

.

Spoiler: Role PM

MAKE IT STOP!

Welcome, Chickadee. You are

A Song Stuck in Somebody's Head, Spammy Annoyance

. You are a Loud Repeating Youtube Linker.



The Song! (Loud Youtube Linker): As often as you like you may pick a player and send them a song from youtube. They will know you have done this.
Stuck in their head (Repeating): When you do this the song will get sent to them again as often as I feel like sending it to them. It might get annoying.

You win when the Mafia have been removed and at least one Townie is still alive.

No one has been modkilled this game.

These two things don't seem compatible to me

[jjh927]

You didn't even post in the signup thread

[jjh927]

Anyway, doesn't matter.

jjh927, what're your reads?

I went to bed before you asked this

Hmm reads indeed

NicoRobin is objectively scum and there is very little that is going to convince me otherwise besides Mastina succesfully gladiating her.

Creature and Ari would be where I'd find scum that aren't NR, and if Porkens makes it clear he's being serious about 'guiltying' me then he's obviously scum

but really my reads have mostly gone down the toilet because I really just don't get how we haven't lynched NR yet. Oh yeah, Mastina is 100% town, not just because of role now but also because of Varsoon self-destructing. Also, Jingle might as well be town now too

I used to think Firebringer was objectively town based on a ~thing~ but that's not necessarily there any more so who knows

[jjh927]

Creature, as interesting as this is, if Mastina wants to claim something to do with redirection then the flavour would have to belong to another player in the game

[jjh927]

In other words, you may as well actually go all out with the guilty because I doubt Mastina is gonna go "I lied"

That said I don't think Mastina is the kind of player that would lie about flavour when it's one of those things in uPicks that can be very easily discovered as a lie and also RC's gladiate flavour has been "A guilty has been declared" so I would like you to do a common sense check before we even get off the ground here

[jjh927]

Creature, as interesting as this is, if Mastina wants to claim something to do with redirection then the flavour would have to belong to another player in the game

My result doesn't seem to indicate I was redirected, but let's see.

Do you mean to say that it is reasonable that her flavour would be a gladiate?

[jjh927]

I dunno, I'm pretty sure you went to lengths to avoid innoing her

[jjh927]

Okay, done some sleuthing-

The signups thing does seem to include Shoshin

It also includes RadiantCowbells (which I believe was a joke when Titus signed up)


It DOES NOT include Chickadee or Titus, but again, Titus was not included for the reason above.
In the playerlist in the game, however, Chickadee's number is the one Shoshin was supposed to have.
What does this mean? Who the fuck knows

[jjh927]

Oh you've been doing the hurtcounts again

HURT: NicoRobin with special emphasis
HURT: Aristophanes, Creature

[jjh927]

Yeah I voted Varsoon

I'm having trouble believing this based on what you said about Varsoon's slot previously. Why'd you vote him?

The other half of that quote is

I wanted to vote NicoRobin but there was a risk of a bunch of tools voting Mastina and Varsoon scumclaimed

[jjh927]

The use of his ability there was a literal scumclaim which I could go into more detail on but see no reason to

[jjh927]

Okay so he had quite a clear pro-town way of using his ability, right

and we'd actually reached a point where everyone was discussing reads and it was going pretty well although honestly Mastina really should have been more involved with the process

and then out of nowhere the guy snaps and uses his ability in the most anti-town way possible- just using it off the bat out of nowhere. With warning, it would have been better but still bad. Without warning, we as a town are left unable to coordinate whatever the hell we're doing. And again, there was a pro-town way of using his ability that he'd just thrown down the toilet.

So the situation we were in when the thread locked was that nobody knew for sure what the wagons were going to be. Jingle's hurtcount here was the best thing we had. And I did consider voting NicoRobin, but I was aware that that wasn't gonna be as huge a wagon because it's quite a spread wagon on which not everyone wants to lynch. Similarly for Jingle, although admittedly at that point I was more for gladiating him than I was for lynching him. Thus, I assumed the main wagons would be Mastina and Varsoon, of which I believed (and still do) Mastina to be town, and Varsoon had just scumclaimed. Seeing the mechanics of his role actually happen also helped contrast them with my own role, but that's still fairly minor in the face of what I considered to be, again, an absolute scumclaim.

[jjh927]

Are you townreading jjh, Nero?

Kinda. I think his play is scummy as fuck but I felt like NSG hard town reading the guy was scum that knew he was town.

Still waiting for you to explain why you are asking me about Fire and Jingle.

NSG is allowed to hard townread me btw

[jjh927]

Which one

[jjh927]

To elaborate on 5463, I mean NSG had enough experience of my play through actual experience and osmosis to catch me as scum really fuckin easily

ie she can actually place me and I don't think it's weird when someone who has played with me before can easily spot my towngame because it's not hard

[jjh927]

Thanks for the explanation, that's helpful. Can you also explain why Mastina is town, jjh?

A. Role

She is objectively a gladiator. She claimed loyal with a flavour that makes sense (this may be about to go down the drain- if Creature's guilty makes sense then I'll look into more shit)
Now, if she is indeed loyal, she must be town.
If she is disloyal scum, then fullclaiming was bad play on her part because we can still leash her for town's benefit (and furthermore should, so I don't really care too much about this scenario, but I don't think it's likely)
So then there's the scenario where she's neither loyal nor disloyal, and I don't think anyone who doesn't have one of those modifiers claims it. It's fuckin weird as a fakeclaim and holes appear in it when you start introducing flavour too. This and the lack of holes helps, but I also don't think this is the kind of lie Mastina would tell on day 1 due to running the risk of being found out mechanically.



B. Scum want to lynch her

Varsoon self-destructed trying to get her lynched. I am confident that not all of his frustration was faked, rather frustration seems most real when there is something real within it- and in this case, it was Varsoon's frustration at how powerful her role was for town. I can find a quote directly addressing this if you like.

Furthermore, NicoRobin, who I FIRMLY believe is scum for a whole variety of reasons, was going in very hard on wanting her lynched. I am also of the belief that her "no result" while rolecopping her is total bullshit and she just wanted to avoid giving an inno result on Mastina. The whole thing around how NicoRobin has used her role screams scum that was trying to get Mastina lynched, honestly. I also don't believe she got redirected but that's w/e to this.

[jjh927]

What's the difference between your towngame and scumgame?

Excuse me for a bit of self-meta


It is far more mental effort for me to play scum than it is for me to play town. I can almost always find the time for a few posts here and there in a towngame and am basically checking the thread all the time I am awake. My modern scumgame is best (and tbh, only) characterised by this game linked here, and while I have made the excuse that I could have done better but got super busy with other shit, I honestly don't know and haven't done better. Naturally, that is the game I was caught by NSG and lynched day 1. My other scumgames (in reverse order) include replacing into a widely scumread slot and lurking out then getting lynched, lurking out but making it to endgame and mechanically "townclearing" myself with mechanics town were not privy to nor expecting, and one where I got lynched day 1.

Just as a comparison, I do get ran up as a lynch wagon reasonably often when playing with people who have not played with me before when I am town. HOWEVER, in such a scenario I still don't tend to be lynched. I think I've been mislynched as town twice- once when I replaced into an unclaimed miller slot on day 3 in a shitshow of a game, and once on the (pretty much only) time I lurked out as town. One takeaway from this is that I have been lynched more times as scum than I have as town.

[jjh927]

Mastina is hard town reading Nico, you think she's just wrong?

That I do

But I'll reexamine her on her own BoP if it's confirmed I'm right

[jjh927]

I guess I'm kinda against quantifying everything I'm using to place NR here because it would involve going deep into and explaining the more psychological side of my playstyle

[jjh927]

Ginngie, some thing

[jjh927]

I am DIO, Evil Mastermind

Chickadee was A Song Stuck in Somebody's Head, Spammy Annoyance.

Etc etc

[jjh927]

Is this concurrent with your results on anyone else?

[jjh927]

I take it that means your past results imply the comma does count? You should probably ask RC though.

You should also have asked Mastina to fullclaim flavour before outing the nature of the guilty tbh.

Tune in next time on "jjh understands other people's role pms than they do"

[jjh927]

Tune in next time on "jjh understands other people's role pms better than they do"

Ebwop because I typoed the name of my own schtick

[jjh927]

In my world, Mastina just got confirmed to be either loyal or disloyal and as such optimal play is to leash her until she dies

[jjh927]

Oh also Creature has the town counterpart to NR's role

[jjh927]

HEAL: creature

[jjh927]

I thought based on an earlier post that creature's slot was the target of Vaxkiller's delaying thing anyway

[jjh927]

Wait, the mod PMed me just now my N1 results.

The gathering had started. Fantasy heroes, abstract concepts, and larger than life figures from the real world were all gathering in anticipation. It was time for another glorious showdown where one side would reach glorious victory and another side would lose horribly, because all great stories have winners and losers. They gathered in anticipation of the moment where everything was promised to begin, at 11:35:24 on the 15th of August, 2018. All of them had arrived in time for the event and the atmosphere grew tense as they counted the minutes and the seconds down then...

...nothing. It didn't start.

The contestants looked around, not sure what to do. A few wandered off. Most stayed, but the trust was no longer there. The promise had been broken.

Vaxkiller has died! He was

8/15/18 11:35:24, A Broken Promise

. You are a Post Restricted Delayer.

Spoiler: Role PM

Yeah I will totally start this game at this time, right guys?

Welcome, Vaxkiller. You are

8/15/18 11:35:24, A Broken Promise

. You are a Post Restricted Delayer.

Breaker of Promises (Post Restriction): You cannot claim your night action accurately before you make it, nor can you assent to performing a leashed action. If you agree to any action you must break said agreement. You may claim this fact. If based on my subjective opinion you have failed this clause your action will be cancelled (or if you agreed to not act, randomized.)
Delayed Game (Delayer): Each night you may target a player and cause any actions they perform that night or the following day to resolve two phases later (Night 2 actions delayed to Night 2, Day 4 to Day 5.)

You win when the Mafia have been removed and at least one Townie is still alive.

Day 2 has begun!

[jjh927]

Did you ask RC if the stuff after the comma counts?

[jjh927]

I'm on NicoRobin twice now - not that that does not accurately convey the level of confidence with which I believe she is scum

[jjh927]

As a point of public information I have considered the possibility of Mastina being scum. However, as with many things I consider, this was processed very quickly and determined not to be worth thinking about. I acknowledge that Mastina could still be scum, but there is no point in lynching there when she has basically just been confirmed to have been either loyal or disloyal- ie she has played her role straight and the objectively correct play is to leash her. However, this of course reinforces a number of the reasons I was hard townreading her anyway. I could almost certainly dig up at least one post from myself showing I have at least considered scum!Mastina, though it is not a stance I have ever held, nor is it really worth doing so.

[jjh927]

She has actually been caught telling the truth

[jjh927]

Okay, so, would you really want me as conftown?

Furthermore, if we're both town and she is disloyal, then the gladiate won't work. She might also refuse to do it.

How about those?

jfc you just scumclaimed twice in one post

[jjh927]

Maybe rhree times if the second one counts twice

[jjh927]

You basically said:

"Don't gladiate me, but if you do, then don't be surprised if it doesn't work"

[jjh927]

Here is the idea: how about instead of apologizing, you join Korina's game? I really want it to fill......

I have no intention of ever joining a korina game

[jjh927]

Ginngie, Angry Person

[jjh927]

Ginngie, Guilty Claimer

[jjh927]

Ginngie, something with the letter a in it but only once

[jjh927]

I take it you missed this week's episode of 'jjh understands other people's role pms better than they do'

[jjh927]

Creature's reaction after I brought it up seemed to imply I am right, but he hasn't properly answered fwiw

He should have asked RC by now though




Mastina should probably claim her flavour with the stuff following the comma, not that it would make much difference since if she was lying she'd be able to make it up now

[jjh927]

Can you revisit that tomorrow? Today would be a pretty bad day to lynch Fire

[jjh927]

Not expanding on that

[jjh927]

Tfw NicoRobin invented scumreading Mastina and is now suing Firebringer for patent infringement

[jjh927]

I'm still enjoying being DIO tbh

@RC if you call the game I'll freeze the votes and you'll be forced to do a votecount so keep it going

[jjh927]

Lol I stole a patent on scumreads

Good one jjh

Yeah wow sleep deprived me before I went back to sleep was on his game

Attempting to hold the mod hostage to continue the game too

[jjh927]

I don't want to stop the game but mass modkilling slots horribly damages the integrity of the game.

Yeah I feel you

Tbh if it does come down to modkilling then ending the game prematurely is probably better

[jjh927]

Lynching slots so that the mod does not have to find a replacement does not tend to be a good idea

[jjh927]

One of two things will happen, I guess- either there'll be a replacement, or there'll be a modkill. Can mastina just gladiate NR please

[jjh927]

But yeah it'd be dumb to use a regular lynch just because the slot is at risk of dying to a modkill, because the net of that is wasting the lynch. This isn't a regular lynch though because we have Mastina, which makes the play even dumber.

[jjh927]

We are not gladiating an inactive, fuck no
You probably need to die for insinuating that’s an option.

You may be having issues parsing sense

You're advocating the lynch of that inactive when gladiating is the inevitable outcome. It is YOU (and everyone else on the wagon) who is supporting the gladiate of Invisibility. I am pointing out this is dumb

[jjh927]

We are not gladiating an inactive, fuck no
You probably need to die for insinuating that’s an option.

You may be having issues parsing sense

You're advocating the lynch of that inactive when gladiating is the inevitable outcome. It is YOU (and everyone else on the wagon) who is supporting the gladiate of Invisibility. I am pointing out this is dumb

If mastina gladiates Vizzy she gets lynched for making a BLATANTLY anti-town move, barring a guilty. Because that is from her POV a conf town inactive that never gets filled, thus meaning either a conftown gets modkilled, or the game gets called. And until the mod verifies he’s not gonna call the game over an unreplaced slot, I’m sticking to this.

...

How would lynching the slot be any better than conftowning it and no lynching

[jjh927]

You're blindly moving towards a play that is stupid and being like "This near-identical play is stupid"

[jjh927]

Furthermore, scum!Vizzy is totally okay with the game stalling out

[jjh927]

I'll even put this into nice simple logic with bolded important bits for everyone, even the people who can only read select lines.


Hurrdurr inactivity lynchmob says we should lynch Vizzy so that RC doesn't have to either find a replacement or modkill the slot.
If RC finds a replacement, the issue is resolved.
If RC fails to find a replacement, then he modkills the slot.

If the slot is gonna get modkilled anyway, why the fuck should we waste a lynch on it? It's already gonna die.

Furthermore, optimal play with Mastina's role in the game is still to leash the shit out of it and get her to gladiate whoever town agrees on.

If you L-1 Vizzy, Mastina will still be obligated to gladiate there.

Failing the gladiate would mean you just continue lynching. The gladiate succeeding would mean you stop and no lynch. A completely inactive conftown slot is able to do all of the things a dead towny can do and more, including getting someone replaced into it. In this scenario, if the slot ends up getting modkilled after being conftowned, oh no, we get another bold point:

If the slot gets successfully gladiated and then modkilled, it is in the exact same scenario as if you halfwits lynch it.

Okay, but what if RC just calls the game instead?

We shouldn't play suboptimally to stop RC calling the game. That's fucking stupid.

RC is only considering calling the game because of the effect that modkilling slots and the whole replacement shit has on the game. Lynching Vizzy here to prevent this is actually giving in further to that and would arguably compromise the integrity of the game greater than modkilling the slot would.

[jjh927]

This is scum, yes? Like he's either scum or really dumb. Like RC isn't threatening to modkill the slot, he's threatening to call the game. You're basically saying that we should let RC modkill the slot instead of lynch him but that's like not even why he was getting ran up.

The only replacement you need is Vizzy right? (assuming Fire stays) lets just lynch him.

[jjh927]

slots plural

[jjh927]

After giving it a great deal of thought I think that if I am unable to find replacements for these slots the correct move is to call the game early.

I'm fairly sure he wouldn't call it over 1 and if he does then w/e I don't care about it that much

[jjh927]

Yeah sure but it doesn't mean it's not stupid to do it

[jjh927]

I feel like I'm gonna have a really hard time doing anything in this game if I don't see NR gladiated

[jjh927]

I need to either know that I am right so I can shit on people's reads or reevaluate

[jjh927]

Well yeah I'm not gonna reevaluate shit unless I'm shown to be wrong

[jjh927]

IDK, it's a big game

Ari is probably one of them though

[jjh927]

Wait what the shit you've only done it once

[jjh927]

Also the reason I TRed you was because I claimed in there

[jjh927]

Today

-This was because he would have a watcher again tonight

[jjh927]

Answering Mastina's posts will take more time than I have rn

[jjh927]

That said, the main new point about Varsoon is bullshit because I've seen the way Varsoon busses before. Furthermore, the fact that he switched over to Mastina is pretty critical too. The way in which he approached NR and Mastina is decidedly different, and it is the genuine nature of the breakdown that basically clears Mastina, not his supposed scumread