Excalibur [Endgame]
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DVa Mafia Scum
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It sure does, but if town agrees that having top scumreads duel each other is preferable to having people yolo duel then maybe it will discourage people from yolo dueling.In post 21, Elsa Jay wrote:Because your plan requires atleast one of them to be a willing participant to challenge the other.
Most games with this mechanic are lost or become frustrating/boring for town because of yolo dueling. So there needs to be a clear town position that yolo dueling will result in losing the duel.-
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Yeah if everyone hardclaims a merlin target then people have a 4/17 chance of being wrong, basically 1/4, which means that scum will narrow down the real merlin and Arthur by nearly half the player list.In post 15, Firebringer wrote:If you don’t know what I mean I am saying we all soft Merlin role and claim a person to be Arthur.
In case Merlin is night killed/lynched by accident we have our cleared townie.
Let me begin:
Varsoon is Arthur-
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I agree, if we can get the two top scumreads to gladiate each other, then the winner of the gladiation can claim the sword.In post 47, Auro wrote:Town should probably vote for a consensus scumread to claim Excalibur, for maximum benefit. If they're scum they can't claim and we get a confirmation in the night. If they're not scum and claim we know they're IC -- they're gonna either contribute the next day and kill themselves, or Merlin confirms they're Arthur and we move on.-
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We make it clear that if they gladiate a bad target they get lynched.In post 53, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Why are you people so convinced you can convince two scum to gladiate each other?-
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Unlimited hurt tags.In post 55, Auro wrote:Cool. If this IS a good strategy, we need to figure out a consensus forming mechanism to decide the top two scumreads.
Everyone can hurt as many players as they want, and when there's a 'hammer' (simple majority) on one, they gladiate the next highest.-
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Merlin is already a unique named role, we get more value by having scumreads try to claim excalibur.In post 62, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:So the claimant gets to be bulletproof? So, then whomever is Merlin, should ideally claim the sword, right?-
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Well, the jank town can then test if they're Arthur or not the next night phase, thus giving us another cop action the next night.In post 67, Varsoon wrote:Honestly, we get more value from having a strong town leader claim the sword rather than using it as a jank cop on bad town that no one wants to keep around anyway.-
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uh, no, the person who has claimed the sword does not gladiate the next day lol. This is because it's revealed that the sword has been claimed, so if only one person claims to have claimed the sword, that person is town.In post 94, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:we make them gladiate the following day and lose and so on and so on and so on, until we kill all but one scum and if the vig is actually successful, then Merlin kind of becomes irrelevant anyway.
Merlin is someone who can avoid a gladiation by claiming his role, although it does guarantee he dies shortly afterward.-
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scum never counterclaim merlin in this setup unless it's lylo or somethingIn post 99, Auro wrote:Merlin can't prove he is Merlin then though-
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Not unless they want to be lynchedIn post 181, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Oh okay then. So anyone - other than Merlin - should do this, if they’re convinced they’ve found scum. Got it.
Yolodueling is precisely what made town lose in BoR-
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I'm blown away that you think useless fights won't kill player interest but 7 pages of opening discussion willIn post 191, SirCakez wrote:useless fights are gonna be more useful in the scumhunting game though
Gladiations immediately limit town scumhunting potential and lock the dayphase into two people. That will nuke *my* interest in the game if people start doing it, which is precisely why I want town to be aware that yolo-dueling will result in the yoloing player getting lynched every time. There is nothing more boring to me than seeing two townreads gladiate each other because one had a momentary fleeting thought that the other was scum.
Town doing shitty gladiates on other town is pretty much the foundation of the scum wincon here because the gladiation mechanic will mean that until the lynch goes through they don't have to commit to any other read on any other player and can coast--and town will want to coast too. Basically gladiations force the town to come to standstill until someone dies.-
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How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?
And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.
Do you not get that?
You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.
Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day
Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties
Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase
So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan-
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Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: TripodIn post 222, Untrod Tripod wrote:In post 216, Varsoon wrote:Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2,Merlin claims to become ICand, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
T-
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You're basically saying "town don't even try for cohesion"In post 243, Varsoon wrote:216's a great plan and the only one that accounts for all of town not being on the goddamn ball.-
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You're asking me to stop telling you that your plan sucks?In post 254, Varsoon wrote:@DVa: Or more realistically understanding that it's fucking hard to reign in 13 other jackasses and not hinging an entire plan around it.
Stop shading me with that ish.
You want Merlin to fucking claim day 2 and you want town to attempt 0% cohesion and waste the only investigative tool we have.-
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Do YOU not understand the value of a stealth IC?In post 254, Varsoon wrote:@Dunn: Except it fuckin' confirms them as ICs what don't you understand about how IC works
You think everything about the setup is obvious but literally no part of your plan reflects critical thought about how to play the setup
Pedit: OK well that's nice that you're capable of engaging with criticism-
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Having everyone claim the sword n1 provides the town with the least conceivable information d2.In post 266, Auro wrote:The problems Varsoon and I have posed haven't been answered -- that plan is reliant on amazing town cohesion which is far fetched.
It is not just a bad plan, it is the worst plan.
216 is not a strategy, it is an anti-strategy.-
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Why don't you present a better plan than 216?In post 274, Auro wrote:@DVa: Present a plan that doesn't go whack if two/three town don't stick to it.-
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DVa
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DVa
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Yeah but do I actually call you "It" or not?In post 436, Gamma Emerald wrote:Could’ve picked She but It felt more in line with my avatar character
I waffle around on whether I want to use my preferred pronoun or play the “match the flavor” game
Is your avi not Link?-
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Did you miss him claiming scum the first time?In post 461, Auro wrote:Looks like a scumslip, does Firebringer usually say these sorta things?-
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why?In post 475, Auro wrote:I actually weakly think UT is town.-
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Gamma Emerald -- probable town
Varsoon -- possible town
MariaR -- possible town
Dunnstral -- possible town
Something_Smart -- null
VeridianCleric -- null
SirCakez -- null
Ariane -- null
Nancy Drew 39 -- null
Frozen Angel -- MIA
Auro -- possible scum
Elsa Jay -- possible scum
Firebringer -- claimed scum
Untrod Tripod -- possible scum
Lady Lambdadelta -- possible scum
Kokichi Oma -- possible scum
only 4 scum so need to sort the town out of my possible scums at some point.-
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Why?In post 509, Gamma Emerald wrote:This is town holy shit-
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ok who specifically is trolling and do you therefore think they're scum?In post 518, Auro wrote:Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.-
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I mean, Kokichi is scummy, but I don't see how he can be characterized as trolling hereIn post 530, Auro wrote:Got those vibes from Kokichi, she did this in early game too if I remember right.-
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There's 0% chance scum claim the sword Gamma don't shake my read on youIn post 533, Gamma Emerald wrote:there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.-
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LLD is scummy, so I'm not opposed to her claiming the sword, but I don't see why you would be concerned with LLD's paranoia as a force for the town's collective night actions. She's acting as though people are scumreading her based on BoP when literally no one is doing that rn.In post 533, Gamma Emerald wrote:LLD is concerned about paranoia right?-
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Yeah it's just weird seeing Gamma spew out a weird theory only to immediately dismiss it tbhIn post 543, Auro wrote:He said in his next sentence, "Of course this crumbles if Maf don't go for it, which is the probable case"-
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Elsa why does every post you make strike me as scummy this gameIn post 549, Elsa Jay wrote:532 basically makes me want to follow this man willingly. I like when people put effort into their stuff like that.
On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.-
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No, I don't think Gamma entertaining a shitty idea makes [it] a great teammate for Varsoon, at the moment I still think Varsoon is town who presented a bad idea in earnest and Gamma is town entertaining a bad idea in an awkward wayIn post 552, VeridianCleric wrote:do you (DvA) think that perhaps that those two are working together more than we anticipate?-
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Do you find Elsa's posts townie?In post 565, Firebringer wrote:i don't find anything elsa posted to be scummy.
in case anyone was wondering.-
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Yeah, I'd prefer a third other than Varsoon personally, but I'm also not going to bother trying to stop him. I'd rather Elsa, if we must have a thirdIn post 569, Dunnstral wrote:How about we let Varsoon, UT, and LLD go for the sword? They've all already volunteered their intentions to go for the sword, and they seemed pretty bent on going for it-
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are you mei or mercy this game?In post 570, Elsa Jay wrote:Because I cant wait until day 4 this game to get mislynched like last time we battled.-
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No, they won't be town leader, they'll be innocent child
It's not the same thing
We don't need a town leader and someone being unclaimed sword-holder will not make them 'town leader' when the reason we let them claim in the first place was them being scummy
and if UT gets the sword the issue self-resolves anyway, so stop worrying about it Auro wtf-
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no "we" with me, I wasn't on that wagonIn post 596, Elsa Jay wrote:Like how we lynched BEF for floundering super hard.-
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In post 600, Varsoon wrote:@Gamma: I think you horribly misunderstand the rules. The sword doesn't cycle. Once a townie gets it, they're BP. They'll never be lynched either, because they can just claim sword-holder and so long as Merlin is alive, Merlin can confirm.
the cycling of the sword referred to probably meant non-arthurs taking shots and dying, thus making the sword available again-
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Dunn is this a town tell for Fire in your opinion? does he drop dumb arguments as scum? I don't remember anything like this in Witches Ball
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lol you must think LLD really is RCIn post 608, Elsa Jay wrote:Let's say Lady gets the sword and the first thing she does is challenge me day 2 so town will never get the option to do anything. You lynch me because I'm not the sword wielder. Lady gets her way.
Lady does the same thing day 3, and again, she wins since she has the sword. Day 4, guess what, she does the same thing.
I will forever hang a shitty town if it means the rest of the player base has fun.-
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Why did you write a paragraph of "oh yeah but scum never does this" anywayIn post 620, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fucking read further instead of knee-jerking-
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was that paragraph sarcasm?In post 621, Gamma Emerald wrote:That’s not my weird theory for fucks sake-
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ebwop -- this was re the hurt in 628In post 631, DVa wrote:I'm inclined to agree with Fire, Auro you're saying some wild shit this game
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