Booneytoonz IX - Under The Sea -- Game Over!

[Chara]

it's true that the Wisdom/Kaito scum relationship is more dependent on Wisdom scum, but i feel it goes both ways.
my readlist has shuffled a bit, but i'm less interested in lynching sheep even as PoE.
Wisdom's reads seem rather arbitrary now. especially the most recent list. i don't want to think this because i've been defending him so long, though.

[Chara]

because you're scum

sheep was just poe but someone pointed out he pushed you earlier so hes prolly not scum with you

it was me who pointed it out! :>

sort of regret my attitude to davesaz in light of this, but hindsight is 20/20.
i've found myself trying to find a third option to avoid lynching Wisdom or Elsa, but i can't find a satisfying one. i think i'm just not wanting to be wrong, again.

pedit: i don't know Wisdom, the best way to read you is by your reads, and right now they're not very good.

peditx2: that's actually a better take, at least.

[Chara]

"i think i'm just not wanting to be wrong, again."

[Chara]

and how do you know if my reads are good or not

they're not that bad, you were right on Nikk iirc.
the Maki read is what i was thinking of, though it's forgivable for a day 1 tunnel to be on town.
i understood where you were coming from day 1, even with Maki, but today your reads seem to be very reactive. i don't know how best to explain it. i may have been putting too much weight onto the read on me, and that you had Elsa as a sheep partner, now that i'm actually quantifying everything.

pedit: yes.

[Chara]

i don't think any of the millers are fake. davesaz is the most likely fake miller though, i do agree with that. the claim timing fits and what he's saying fits. and if he's scum you surely aren't.
Elsa is a scumpick for me despite his reasonable posts this phase, which might be throwing me off? how exactly are you reading him? i think he's closer to scum than town due to the survivability thing, but that's all i have.
Clemency's panicked claim was pretty towny, i think. i don't think he would lie about being a PR even as scum, and his fear that Kaito was "lying" felt real. if he was scum and knew he was a PR, he wouldn't have felt as threatened by Kaito's fake, i think.

[Chara]

i'm bad at reading Fire (hi Fire!) but i'd put him closer to townish.

[Chara]

how are you? i'm dealing with too much snow here.

pedit: not quite, Wisdom. where's my vote right now?
i meant that i'm wanting a third option so i don't need to be responsible for the lynch, which is obviously not a great thing. i guess that's rather confusing, but my read confidence has suffered in my last few games and i'm trying to battle against that.

[Chara]

i don't want to be indecisive either, it's terrible.
i think they're both viable options for this game right now, and if one of you or Kaito flips scum i would heavily suspect the other. but i find Elsa being scum more likely. i don't expect you to identify with the feeling, but i rarely have unshakeable confidence in scumreads. townreads, yes.

[Chara]

Chara don't be indecisive, that's how scum (Wisdom) can eventually get a mislynch on you.

From my perspective, Wisdom is setting up a lynch on you now. Dont let that slide.

he was doing that earlier and i called him town for it. what did you think of my reasoning then?

and nobody can get a lynch on me, anyway, though that's not relevant to the argument.

[Chara]

why do you think Wisdom and Elsa are TvT, Pink?

[Chara]

somebody is going to lose a finger on this page.

[Chara]

sounds about right. where are you, Clem? i'm northern ontario.

[Chara]

this is a prod dodge post.
and which is it, Elsa? am i a murderer or a hapless townie? :>

[Chara]

Wisdom went off the deep end and is going for me, Clem, and Maki. He's brainwashed Chara to his side.

1) i thought Wisdom was scum? if he is, tunneling you wouldn't really be "going off the deep end."
2) i find your repeating that i'm town but lack agency in my read on you to be suspect.

[Chara]

5 days. replacement might liven things up but it's cutting it close.
does anyone have a reason to call Angel scum? because i gave a reason for her to be town that i don't remember if anyone argued with. (her readslist was towny, just because she then went inactive doesn't mean it got less towny.)
and picking this game in particular to replace out of/stop posting in isn't AI unless you give me meta that days Lady dislikes scum enough to have a pattern of lurking because of it.

[Chara]

you aren't lynchbait, Elsa.
and "someone elsa"? don't you mean Lady Angel? or Wisdom?

and yes, replacing into a miller slot this game is like replacing into a normal slot.

[Chara]

why? you're nullreading him and scumreading davesaz, right? i find dave's ego (not the negative connotation of that word) to be above null here.


pedit: what makes him lynch bait?

[Chara]

FA is town and should not be lynched, she's dealing with RL and that's NAI.
LA's play has also been NAI so far. i don't agree with Fire that Elsa's replies to the push have been towny. they've made me scumread him more. they're manipulative as Wisdom said and Elsa is grasping at anything.
considering that for a while Wisdom was the only one actually pushing Elsa, and that any scum would have gotten on that train and used him as a scapegoat, there's very few worlds here where this is TvT. and Wisdom is being towny.

[Chara]

by LA's play, what i meant her was her lack of activity.

[Chara]

Yet wisdom is ok with being on a wagon with 2 people he suspects

*one person he suspects, who was the last to join the wagon.

[Chara]

i still don't know why town!Elsa trusts me so much, here. all i've done recently is call him manipulative (which his posts are, blatantly, as he tries to use whatever he can to get a lynch that isn't him) and vote him.
even then, i've yet to hear a reason for him to be town. just that he's null and somehow, that makes him a bad lynch. LA is really, really lynchbaity, and Fire saying that Elsa is the lynchbait here is confusing to me.

[Chara]

like I can see actions being survivalism but if elsa wanted to get a lynch of anyone, I think elsa would be happy going on davesaz here too which elsa isn't doing. I guess you could say strategically doesn't see that as a better counter for his own lynch but I fail to see how its manipulative that he is pushing a lynch hard on someone counter to him when anyone would? Am I missing something here.

it's the way he keeps bringing up how he townread the PR claims, and how mean Kaito outed them. and how he's compromising on the lynch due to necessity, and how it's all Wisdom's fault for turning me against him. the way he says these things is what is manipulative to me. it's all very LAMIST, and not in the buzz word way, but rather the actual way.
and LA wagon is a compromise no one besides Wisdom and i are fighting, so it's certainly a safer bet for Elsa than davesaz would be.

not to mention he's happy to agree with Maki's 'contradiction' about Wisdom voting with his scumreads, when Elsa is on the same wagon as Kaito and fine with it. he's just saying things and justifying them later.

[Chara]

wisdom/dave/lady

oh yeah forgot about kaito

he can be scum too

I still rather Kaito bite the dusto, but if I have to compromise then so be it. Besides, when Maki commits Seppuku and Clem is murdered, we all know who caused that to happen.

VOTE: Lady Angel

Sometimes to get the Super Scum, you got to massacre a few expendable slots.

forgets about his Kaito scumread for a second, but it's still the player he wants most to lynch. and LA is a compromise despite being in his scumlist?

aside from that Elsa's reads are

extremely

static and i'm not seeing much evidence of them changing in response to game events.

[Chara]

compare Elsa's reads to Wisdom's. his read on me changed based entirely on

my

posts during the period he was scumreading me, not on how the game was viewing me at the time. it's part of why i'm townreading Wisdom and why i'm not townreading Elsa.

when i asked why Elsa was so confident in his reads, he told me it was because his townreads PR-claimed. no matter how i've approached him he's maintained a staunch townread on me.

pedit: yes.

[Chara]

Too Chara: like I said before, I grouped you, Maki, and Clem in the same boat since day 1. I'm confident I found a core set for the town and with all 3 of you not being VT's, clearly I was onto something.

a few things.
number 1 would be, i claimed miller in my first post. you weren't "on" to anything.
number 2: there are townies that aren't PRs. i'm not sure why your read accuracy in picking town would be validated by them also being PRs.

[Chara]

i've won as scum before because town wasn't doing anything and i just continued to be active. it isn't too hard when it's like that.
four living millers, you think one is scum, and all of them are behaving similarly except for me... yes, it's a little difficult to believe. and "doing stuff" is so easy as scum, to begin with. is that how deep your reads usually go?

[Chara]

Creature's still town.
a lot of the game is inactive so it's inevitable that it would be mostly two players posting. i don't want this put off as TvT just because they've been going at it for a while.

[Chara]

That's a little discouraging, but like you just commented, I'm working with what I got. Even Clem and Maki aren't posting now, so I got no one elsa but myself here.

out of game, i hope that didn't come across as me insulting your skill, or something to that effect. (referring to calling the read shallow)

[Chara]

what you townreading creature for?

it's his basic tell with the caveat of him being disinterested. he fluffs a lot as either alignment but his lackadaisical posting here isn't scum Creature trying to avoid commenting on the game, i think. his digs are especially town-Creature as they're game-related.

[Chara]

hi Nancy! thanks for replacing in. i'm now more confident your slot is town.
Elsa being disappointed Nancy replaced in instead of being disappointed LA slot is town is... bad.

and Nancy, i wasn't the first miller claim, i was the last.

[Chara]

hurray. was worried Jingle wasn't going to get dead, but he did. <3 to Nancy for making me feel relevant after my death. does not happen often.
yay for win.

[Chara]

the real win this game was my getting nightkilled before Wisdom.
but it sucked, i wanted to play.
great job everyone! i overlooked Fire here and then incorrectly thought sheep wouldn't have bussed Elsa in spite of my scumread.
and i thought Jingle did great here with what he had.

Wisdom's getting blocked and then Jingle failing to willboost the claimed rolecop is what i thought would get him caught.