Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[RCEnigma]

Why are you near the top?

[RCEnigma]

Do it now I'm nervous because it might be a N0 guilty on me.

Jk, it’s actually a N0 guilty on you

Vedith locktown.

[RCEnigma]

You can tell me your role, I'm lock town.

[RCEnigma]

Wow FL reading my mind.

[RCEnigma]

I think Liger is doing a great job

Sure, it’s a great job, but is it gonna be enough? Liger solo dolo-ing against this town block?

I will have to do better than that!

Something an overlord would say.

[RCEnigma]

Um. Actually, I haven't played or read any previous starcraft games. Is scum faction limited or can you have like protoss/Zerg/Terran all in the scumteam?

[RCEnigma]

What would be the use in fake flavour claims if all can be scum?

Ahh makes sense actually.

[RCEnigma]

Alright, Liger, is it time?

Yes

Is this a rush?

[RCEnigma]

Um. Actually, I haven't played or read any previous starcraft games. Is scum faction limited or can you have like protoss/Zerg/Terran all in the scumteam?

Last game had Zergs as the Town faction and scum had Zerg fakeclaims. At least, that’s as best as I remember.

Was the 1st game Terran?
Because then it explains this one to be Protoss town.

Was going to call this a townslip but I would assume all the fake claims are protoss anyways.

[RCEnigma]

Only played like 2 games of heart of the swarm so I'm not really SC literate.

[RCEnigma]

I solve through shitposting. Cerb scum btw.

[RCEnigma]

Town has taken a commanding lead I think. Almost have the game figured out, if someone wants to do me a favor and tell me how many scum there are it would be much appreciated.

[RCEnigma]

Omg I am honoured!
I already have the outfit ready! \o/

Umm we were going to be the rowdyruff boys. You me and FL. I'm disappointed.

[RCEnigma]

Wait FL is the professor, we still need a third.

[RCEnigma]

Omg I am honoured!
I already have the outfit ready! \o/

Umm we were going to be the rowdyruff boys. You me and FL. I'm disappointed.

Can't I be in both? :<

No. No double dipping!

[RCEnigma]

K Almost is in.

[RCEnigma]

Performer kissed me though so it's going in my sig.

[RCEnigma]

I would if it was Nancy.

[RCEnigma]

And you all know I’m not 3rd party or I’d have claimed it like I did the last time first post.

Fair, you waited 5 posts to claim.

[RCEnigma]

I solve through shitposting. Cerb scum btw.

Why?

Liking RCE and Alchemist.

~BC

Ehh don't feel as strongly about it with the way that FL framed it. So I understand Cerb as a mechanical player and this would only be my second game with him but here it seems like it was just a weak attempt to break up the social play and have those slots change tempo.

Compared to his RR early game in OK2 where he actually used RVS to analyze and force the game to his strengths. He isn't bringing the game to him in the same way.

It was so weak that it makes me think traitor with 1 scum in the block that was forming or scum with a partner in the block that was forming.

[RCEnigma]

Don't know if I'm all in on that either since I feel all of FL, A50, Vedith, and Alchemist are still town. Unpopular opinion I also think Liger is town and 2 of the 3 Powerpuff girls are town. Bubbles might be deep wolfing.

[RCEnigma]

Nancy...your towniness...it's...it's....blinding me!!!

[RCEnigma]

We need more people calling A50 scum please.

[RCEnigma]

Chenn, why are you at the bottom of the Player Order.

I don’t think it’s random.

Because I signed up last.

Yeah no I was one of the last to sign up and ended up in the middle of the pack. I interpreted it as a euphemism for my mediocrity.

[RCEnigma]

Or that I like sandwiches, mod couldn't possibly know that though....could he?

[RCEnigma]

Is there a name for the guy in the opening post or is he a generic unit?

[RCEnigma]

Glory to Protoss.

[RCEnigma]

Someone call FL scum too please.

[RCEnigma]

Why do I imagine RCE being a Roach with a Protoss mask on right now?

If you mean Protoss Roach

[RCEnigma]

Oooo PB is Pint. Vedith lied to me.

[RCEnigma]

I've been doing a thing, none of it is important yet.

[RCEnigma]

I thought I was...

[RCEnigma]

I'm going to ignore every one of these red flags right now.

[RCEnigma]

I'm going to ignore every one of these red flags right now.

I mean honestly, it’s when I don’t have any red flags that you need to worry about me.

Fair actually.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Shadowless aye aye captain.

[RCEnigma]

This is for the block!

[RCEnigma]

Cerb is going to hate this game.

[RCEnigma]

You think Almost is town?

Their scumread on me is a bit weird, though nothing else has raised any flags with em.

I wish someone would make an actual case for me to respond to instead of everyone just mutually agreeing im scum and leaving a vote

Much obliged! Your iso is weak, don't worry I'll explain but it will be mediocre.

A large majority of this game seems like shitposting, I'll agree. So does your iso but there's a reason a bunch of shitposting has formed a block that you aren't considered to be a part of.

This is just Vedith's style, I can tell what stances he's taken.

FL is going to flip all of his reads at some point anyway.

A50 is going to scumtell day 1 as either alignment so it's not really important to him what he posts or responds to.

PPG idk, I'm pretty much only reading how Nancy is playing as she is the only head I think I have a reasonable read on, her paranoia early was +town.

Alchemists early game indicates excitement to be in the game which I associate more with town!alchemist and his early attempts to articulate his thought process to Cerb was genuine.

Shadow seems to be emulating what the vocal slots are doing to poor effect. Blending I guess would be the term. Maybe it's just a product of the slots that happen to be active but I'm not so sure. I always assume FL is playing to an agenda and his actions have motive so I believe there is a reason he is playing this way. Is there a reason on your end?

The only read I could pull from the iso was that PPG may be town(?) Even that isn't concrete. The lack of a stance is more scum indicative than town indicative.

[RCEnigma]

Will you only survive a shot in the night?

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

[RCEnigma]

A50 is going to scumtell day 1 as either alignment so it's not really important to him what he posts or responds to.

More on this.

What can you tell me of how he plays?

He usually doesn't. If he's town he is probably the night 1 target almost certainly. Although Vedith is also a usual night 1 target so he might have some leeway.

But as scum he would have to play to his "town avoiding the night kill" meta anyways.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: I think BP is a scummy claim regardless. But it can be tested tomorrow so there are better options probably. Not named Liger preferrably.

Who would you rather switch to if not Liger?

Chenn probably.

[RCEnigma]

A50 is going to scumtell day 1 as either alignment so it's not really important to him what he posts or responds to.

More on this.

What can you tell me of how he plays?

He usually doesn't. If he's town he is probably the night 1 target almost certainly. Although Vedith is also a usual night 1 target so he might have some leeway.

But as scum he would have to play to his "town avoiding the night kill" meta anyways.

….this gives me nothing other than he isn't playing. So is he like feared as town by scum or something? Why would he get nightkilled?

He's very capable town, a threat to solve the game as is FL, enough experience with enough players that he could be conftowned if not pushed. But he's also wily and hard to mislynch. He does tend to threaten scum yes.

[RCEnigma]

Then we can let an investigative handle it tonight and have vig shoot elsewhere.

[RCEnigma]

I solve through shitposting. Cerb scum btw.

Why?

Liking RCE and Alchemist.

~BC

Ehh don't feel as strongly about it with the way that FL framed it. So I understand Cerb as a mechanical player and this would only be my second game with him but here it seems like it was just a weak attempt to break up the social play and have those slots change tempo.

Compared to his RR early game in OK2 where he actually used RVS to analyze and force the game to his strengths. He isn't bringing the game to him in the same way.

It was so weak that it makes me think traitor with 1 scum in the block that was forming or scum with a partner in the block that was forming.

I'm quite impressed that with your one game of experience with me you've managed to perfectly determine what is and isn't normal play for me, while simultaneously attributing to me a line of play that indicates I would be concerned about shitposting, and try to break up said shitposting through means that are *outside* of my normal play.

....


/s, if necessary.

Generally speaking, I find FL's vote swap extremely suspect. A VC shows up, with two people at 3/3, and the momentum HUGELY shifts within like 6 posts to being 5:2? That...that's the sort of thing I deliberately set up by making vote counts tied, just to see who blinks and tries to push momentum somewhere.

@Liger: In that last game A50 was slotted as town by me, at least, because of his D1 play, and because the role felt....a bit unwieldy for scum to have to deal with in that game. His blowup actually felt super out of character to me.

@Shadowless: How could you possibly think that days were only three "RL" days long here? :-/ And if you did think that, and thus thought that things were that fast paced, why would a claim at l-4 be reasonable when in a game as fast paced as that, momentum could easily move elsewhere?

-Cerb

How dare I use two points of reference to come to a conclusion that may or may not stick based on what happens outside of the first 20 pages of what may or may not be useless content.

Not /s. Honestly my audacity knows no bounds.

[RCEnigma]

...like we have a whole claim my friend.

[RCEnigma]

It's self resolving, look elsewhere.

[RCEnigma]

Well not self resolving but I'm sure a kind Samaritan is out there willing to carry out the will of -Protoss deity here- as planned.

[RCEnigma]

How do you know I don't know they exist?

[RCEnigma]

Why are you against confirming his role?

[RCEnigma]

Both a vig and an investigative are better used elsewhere, and I find the lack of pushing on what you describe as a scummy claim interesting.

How interesting? Enough to dance?

[RCEnigma]

How do you know I don't know they exist?

It's a bit of an assumption that you don't know for a fact the existence of an investigative role with the ability to clear a slot, AND a vig.

Not to mention the risk that putting an investigative on someone brings with it (blockers, bus, etc)
Having a vig shoot is nonsense either way, because if it's scum BP you achieve nothing, and if it's town BP you give scum the chance to finish him off. If there is a town BP, then its not a long stretch to think there could be a scum Strongman in play to counter. Clearing him as town gives little benefit imo.

Hence, either he's scum for the claim and we lynch or he's town and we leave him be, having scum guess he's actually BP and let them test it out.

And if the setup is multiball? Would you still follow that line of thinking?

[RCEnigma]

There will be at least eleven town players and at least three mafia players.

[RCEnigma]

Though I don't generally see bp used as a third party claim on here.

[RCEnigma]

So is your issue that I think he's resolvable and am looking elsewhere or that you don't think the claim was scummy?

[RCEnigma]

I like the cliff notes.

[RCEnigma]

Yes, you should claim!

Fenix the bulletproof.

My "2" flavors are before and after my body was killed lol

I don't think Liger is scum btw.

im agreeing with you i think

we should lynch through the bullet proof claim that was total bs

RCE, I think sometimes we out-game ourselves when simply voting scum is a solid, time-tested strategy

Consider that recent mini-normal run by NSG, viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78917

Scum was at L-1, claimed mod would confirm him as IC the next day. Simplest example of a role claim being self-resolving

But the mechanics of the game meant that town would have been better off just lynching the guy they thought was scum

Let's try something new and just lynch scum

Why were you so quick to want to lynch him through his claim on day one, given that you were in Starcraft 2? Remember that in that game there were two town-aligned one-shot BP's -- Michael Scott (Auro and I) and Tibor & Lumia (Gamma Emerald and Brassherald)/Firebinger both had that role (see: Starcraft 2 Mod Thread). That game was 11 town vs 3 scum, and there are at least 11 townies in this game, so it's very likely that there is at least one town-aligned BP role in this game.

- Volxen

Yeah but the 2 flavors thing actually makes me think recruitable traitor now.

[RCEnigma]

Does someone like that fit in the starcraft lore?

[RCEnigma]

Is shadow Duran? I guess that still fits with Zerg being the scum faction.

[RCEnigma]

I'm learning a lot of starcraft from this game lol thanks Volxen.

[RCEnigma]

Possibly yeah, flavor-gaming probably isn't the best.

Also looking through Starcraft 1, there was also a bulletproof but it was 1-shot bulletproof godfather. I don't think Volxens argument holds weight, it's not alignment tied and there doesn't have to be a town bp.

[RCEnigma]

But, on the other side of that coin A50. Those that have dropped role hints have all pointed to Protoss as the town faction, I don't think that's insignificant.

[RCEnigma]

Or maybe I started that.... I don't really remember.

[RCEnigma]

Half cyborg battling with the reality that his consciousness may not be the "real" him. But he also has space cancer and is fighting for a cure?

[RCEnigma]

If I could make a suggestion it would be to shoot icon and shadow simultaneously.

[RCEnigma]

My masters have spoken VOTE: Volxen mjl

[RCEnigma]

Hey shiro.

[RCEnigma]

I mean, it's obvious -to me- everyone with no scum reads are going the easy route and voting Volxen for no good reason. Maybe one or two of them do have a reason, but I challenge the whole Volxen wagon to each produce a case on their own.

My overlords willed it.

[RCEnigma]

I don't actually think Volxen is scum yet.

[RCEnigma]

I look forward to your input, I and likely several others will be instantly judging your alignment based on it. No pressure.

P.S. I was going to base my instant judgement on the above post but I'll give another chance.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Chenn sorry PPG I'm not feeling the Volxen lynch and Chenn is begging for it.

[RCEnigma]

We can all help VOTE: Cerb

[RCEnigma]

I feel like scum is controlling the lynch right now and I hate it.

VOTE: Chenn sorry PPG I'm not feeling the Volxen lynch and Chenn is begging for it.

We can all help VOTE: Cerb

What was this vote on Chen?

Seemed like a statement that scum makes. Doesn't have much behind it, doesn't follow a logical progression. Doesn't have to argue one way or the other since it isn't day 1 provable.

I would assume Volxen is the scum controlled lynch with only 4 votes being myself and PPG with like urap and someone else tagging onto the tail end. Don't think you could really argue a team of myself and PPG pushing a mislynch onto Volxen much less a case for individual scum behavior outside of me sheeping ppg on the vote.

But if Cerb doesn't want to play that's fine too, simplest way to resolve him with the least resource allocation.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Chenn

I think it's even more likely that wisdoms slot is still prob scum. Wisdom I'm curious how you view Urap I don't think you've mentioned either way.

[RCEnigma]

I was like 2 pages behind, disregard.

[RCEnigma]

As am I.

[RCEnigma]

Lol fine fine I'll get in the pocket.

[RCEnigma]

Can we make these 1,2,3 responses the go to?

[RCEnigma]

FL is doing his weird pocket from the side scum thing again. This town block is destroyed.

[RCEnigma]

Wisdom/shiro seem svt.
If wisdom were to flip red I'd assume shiro town and rethink the liger townread. If wisdom is town I'd read alchemist red and Liger green. Shiro maybe red. But not as strong a read as a wisdom red flip.

I'm not following any of this, if you could lay it out for me it would be appreciated.

[RCEnigma]

But, I think Chenn is scum and shiro isn't.

[RCEnigma]

I actually like MJL's posting but I think they are scum with Chenn. I voted Chenn after his vote since it looked like opportunistic distancing. Both slots doubled down and I wouldn't mind lynching in either one tbh.

Also think the shiro wagon gaining steam as the counterwagon to Volxen is interesting.

[RCEnigma]

I actually like MJL's posting but I think they are scum with Chenn. I voted Chenn after his vote since it looked like opportunistic distancing. Both slots doubled down and I wouldn't mind lynching in either one tbh.

Also think the shiro wagon gaining steam as the counterwagon to Volxen is interesting.

so instead of helping push shiro through and making volx lose steam, you're saying i'd immediately bus ??

Shiro didn't pick up steam till after this happened. Her name was just being thrown around.

[RCEnigma]

Damn Cerb might be town, that's exactly what I was just looking through.

[RCEnigma]

So Chenn hopped onto the shiro wagon at 3-3 Volxen being the counterwagon. Flips wagons 200 posts later to Volxen despite claiming ppf and I are scum pushing the Volxen wagon.

Wisdom replaces in with a vote on shiro, alchemist pivots from Chen to shiro.

Without anything to flesh out Chen's reads or votes Shiro is an easy pivot. Like he can freely move his vote back if I were to say vote Volxen right now.

[RCEnigma]

None of these wagons are any good

If this is what you were referring to Cerb the wagons were shadow/Liger/Chenn

Chen was on Liger at the time and shadow lost steam from his claim.

[RCEnigma]

You started getting scummy. We needed Vedith, he was the glue.

[RCEnigma]

Same, which makes me feel better about you actually. I had doubts.

[RCEnigma]

What is this game, all of my early townreads were built on balsawood now I'm lost.

[RCEnigma]

Volxen your breaking my Volxen + Chen theory.

[RCEnigma]

A50 you're town right?

[RCEnigma]

And by town I mean scum.

[RCEnigma]

Shade?

I wouldn't call asking if he's town shade. That's a -1 level play but whatever.

I've lost all of my townreads if I'm being honest and don't know if I'm just confused about the gamestate or no one's really towning. Cerb is but I can see his analysis on Chen as either alignment. I'm mostly holding onto the fact Cerb was digging into the same idea I was simultaneously.

I thought buttercup was town early but not because of her usual towntells if that makes sense, the other heads of PPG haven't impressed me. I think FL is scum the longer the day goes.

If I believe the bp claim to be scum Liger is probably town by proxy of shadows wagon moving there directly after.

I don't know Vedith's replace ins name off the top of my head but I has Vedith pretty strong town while I feel the rep in is playing political. No hard stances, trying to "herd" town in the right direction without definitive input. So idk.

Forgot alchemist existed, probably not a good sign.

Tldr;
Cerb
Liger
---------
Everyone else
---------
Probably FL

I'm not finding anyone and I don't like it at all.

[RCEnigma]

I still think Chen is scum. The reservations I have are the lack of reasoning for most of the votes. Like I feel Cerb was town motivated and A50 just wants a flip. If Chen does actually flip town I'd bet scum joined after the Cerb vote not before.

[RCEnigma]

Get back in my pocket RCE. Don't make me whip you

You're still above the everybody else pile, no worries.

[RCEnigma]

Reasons why I’m disagreeing with my Puff sisters on Wisdom:

His initial hesitancy on Chenn reads to me like town who didn’t want to mislynch, as opposed to scum trying to save his buddy and his re-evaluation on both Chenn and Shiro seems to back that up. In DnD game by contrast, it was all, why haven’t we lynched lovebird yet? I mean it’s hard to tell with Wisdom but this seems to me more like UtS and YGM Wisdom than DnD/FH Wisdom here. His reaction to Puffs pushing him also seems townie to me. He’s not being survivalistic here. He was more concerned with FL sr his trs than anyone sr him. Only thing worried me a bit, was post calling me “annoying” but that’s probably NAI. Didn’t love Liger’s “self-delusional” comment which was way worse objectively speaking but his defence of Wisdom read like he hard townread him.

~Buttercup

Ok but his slot was already wagoned and won't be lynched today. We've already had the lynch vs night sort discussion and even though I'm one of the main voices against wisdom I won't lynch there. I wouldn't expect him to go into survival mode

[RCEnigma]

Hey, don't think my thoughts for me.

[RCEnigma]

I still think Chen is scum. The reservations I have are the lack of reasoning for most of the votes. Like I feel Cerb was town motivated and

A50 just wants a flip

. If Chen does actually flip town I'd bet scum joined after the Cerb vote not before.

I actually disagree with that. I think scum would be far more likely to join early to middle of the wagon if scum, to get towncred or stay off of it entirely if town. Of course, there’s always exceptions but in general, unless you have a situation with nearly tied wagons, late stragglers are more likely to be town because scum knows it looks bad. I think I read that on MS Wiki but it makes sense generally speaking, if you think about it.

Again, not liking this comment on A50. How is that scummy? Isn’t it townie to not want to no lynch, anywhere but MYLO?

~BC

Those were the two townier reasonings to be on the wagon. What is your fascination with pushing this Rce vs A50 narrative?

[RCEnigma]

FL is winning back my favor actually. I feel bad for Volxen tbh, he gets lynched for the exact same reasons EVERY SINGLE GAME. Could he be scum here? Sure but I've played like 3-4 games with him in a row where he ends up getting lynched for his day 1s. I don't even really townread him here but I've been guilty of it at some point.

So no even if he hard claims mafia roleblocker in not lynching him today. The man just wants to play some mafia.

[RCEnigma]

Fuck, RCE, don’t do that. You seem lockscum to me when you say stuff like that.

Which, actually might end up us winning the game because of it actually...

Yeah, I powertunneled Volxen in a recently ended game Day 1 for similar reasons.

Is it because I'm such a scum powerhouse?

[RCEnigma]

Why would I be complicit if Chen flips scum?

[RCEnigma]

Why would that implicate urap either? You don't think it's possible Town!Urap defended Scum!Chen and Chen flipped it into a pocket? Or scum!urap could have pocketed Town!Chen?

[RCEnigma]

Liger you play tos?

[RCEnigma]

If you say you scumread PPG I'll hard defend you today.

[RCEnigma]

Oh wow... Vedith is playing vicariously through me.

[RCEnigma]

Hey Alch, guess what

VOTE: Alchemist

I caught you

- Blossom

What did you think you caught?

[RCEnigma]

I'm disappointed in the Chenn bailers.

[RCEnigma]

Damn, I still townlean you anyways.

[RCEnigma]

@Mod, what happens in the case of a tie?

-MJL

There is no plurality. So if someone doesn't reach 9 votes there will be no lynch.

[RCEnigma]

Restless pops?

[RCEnigma]

Not the first thing I wanted to hear. But I was also escalating in my paranoia about PPG so... Probably need to take a step back.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah that kill I think helps me sort a lot better just because I think I get a much better idea of who would and wouldn't make the kill.

Hmmm need to collect those thoughts. Right now though Wisdom is confirmed, RCE might as well be confirmed.
I have varying other townreads but I want to focus on my suspicion list which seems to have grown.

On the other side of the coin I think the kill makes FL look better. Don't think he bails on buddying Nancy as scum that quickly. Did he claim Miller yet?

Give me a rundown of your suspects Liger, brief reasoning on each. Also what do you think about pops shifting placement?

[RCEnigma]

Since I know how much you guys are loving the meta discussion this game. I don't think it's as AI as you think, strong players can be wrong. Consider it could also be an info play.

His reads aren't static either way and he should pick up steam today, we can't play the give me till day 3 game forever.

Also likely he has scum in his day 1 townreads.

[RCEnigma]

LOLOL ok I think you might be pretty town FL. Now scratch my back too.

[RCEnigma]

Doubtful you die. But I'd agree either one could be scum. Pops jumping the order still wasn't addressed so there's that.

[RCEnigma]

Alchemist you're 1shot right? Not even or odd?

[RCEnigma]

My eyes work just fine, I know what he's claimed.

[RCEnigma]

I am disappointed in a lot of you btw.

[RCEnigma]

That's actually really unfortunate.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah forgot yesterday was a thing VOTE: Liger would also kill pops today fwiw.

[RCEnigma]

Ngl back on D1 I had considered making FL my N2 Cop target just to be on the safe side with him. Glad I didn’t.

I was working on conf towning FL, didn't work out. I figured scum would assume you were being misleading with your role and kill you in the night.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah if it wasn't clear btw. I am not a cop. That was a fake claim.
I was going for a gambit to bait a night kill and I really thought Wisdom was town.

There was ample opportunity for you to retract yesterday. Instead of having us entertain things like godfather and lawyer because you wanted to stick to a fakeclaim.

[RCEnigma]

I have different ideas on who the Mason is so it's probably not a very townsided discussion.

[RCEnigma]

I want to Lynch both of you.

[RCEnigma]

You become a direct CC to Alchemist at that point who is claiming a guilty. If wisdom flips town there then your read doesn't matter mechanically. If you believe Alchemist is fake claiming there, meh as town he gets himself killed on a mislynch. He's a better player than that.

So you knowing that you are not a cop, continued to press that alchemist's ACTUAL guilty could possibly be wrong because you had a hunch wisdom was town.

If you're town here I don't mind testing out gambits, it's how you get better, but figure out how to bail when you are impeding on towns wincon.

[RCEnigma]

You mean both me and liger right rce? URAP is basically IC right now.

Yes you and Liger. But the more I think about it the more I think iconeum is scum for trying to move invests off of the bp claim and I don't know if Ico/wisdom/pops fits.

[RCEnigma]

I think its easier to understand when you assume I was town from the beginning of the day and I fake claimed and that my thought process was I didn't want to unveil it in case Alchemist was lying but that Wisdom was acting really really weird for a town player to be doing and that it become increasingly awkward for me to keep the lie but didn't want to just incase he was town and I was fooled by Alchemist. It was really weird situation to be in, idk.

Even if you retract there, scum!Alchemist is claiming a red on town!wisdom. Whom is going to be lynched regardless with Alchemist following behind.

[RCEnigma]

I'll say I really dropped the ball this game now all I have are my reads.

But gun to my head, I would aim it at Ico.

[RCEnigma]

Shiro wasn't going to gain much more steam while the vocal townies were pushing for Chenn, that's an easy switch.

[RCEnigma]

If you consider his separate shots like a joat then it might not be the case. They would basically be separate role cards and not obligated to function the same way.

[RCEnigma]

A condition has been achieved.

Was this ever explained?

- Hydra

Lynch all disciples or something idk.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think there is a maf doc in this setup but bp definitely made sense from a scum perspective if there is an X-night Vig.

[RCEnigma]

Flavorwise would roles be confined to commanders and unit/building types? Are actions like warp or orbital scan possible? Keep in mind I don't know the actually names just the SC basics.

[RCEnigma]

I can't figure out who would kill Flavor Leaf.

Anyone would, it's FL.

[RCEnigma]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

What?

Wisdom didn't flip BP scum like I expected him to, he flipped goon.

Claiming BP makes more sense if he can Proof a Bullet somehow. It's not high on the list of attractive claims to start with.

Maybe I'm overestimating shadow by an awful lot.

Around his claim there was a lot of talk about how to handle the night actions. ICO is the slot that sticks out as actively trying to dissuade town from, as he put it "wasting town resources" on checking shadow or taking a shot there.

[RCEnigma]

Wait we can request fake claims??

[RCEnigma]

I'll get back to this after I watch some Winter videos.

[RCEnigma]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

What?

Wisdom didn't flip BP scum like I expected him to, he flipped goon.

Claiming BP makes more sense if he can Proof a Bullet somehow. It's not high on the list of attractive claims to start with.

Maybe I'm overestimating shadow by an awful lot.

Wait I skimmed this and assumed wisdom was scum bp when he flipped red. Maf doc could be a thing.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Ico

[RCEnigma]

I have different ideas on who the Mason is so it's probably not a very townsided discussion.

NVM. It's all in the open now, but you did well

I tried

[RCEnigma]

How do you know I don't know they exist?

It's a bit of an assumption that you don't know for a fact the existence of an investigative role with the ability to clear a slot, AND a vig.

Not to mention the risk that putting an investigative on someone brings with it (blockers, bus, etc)
Having a vig shoot is nonsense either way, because if it's scum BP you achieve nothing, and if it's town BP you give scum the chance to finish him off. If there is a town BP, then its not a long stretch to think there could be a scum Strongman in play to counter. Clearing him as town gives little benefit imo.

Hence, either he's scum for the claim and we lynch or he's town and we leave him be, having scum guess he's actually BP and let them test it out.

I could see it in context as either alignment but, first mention of BD.

[RCEnigma]

Anyone in this playerlist would make the FL kill. The kill is likely if scum think FL is likely to flip the switch on them (slots like Hydra, pops, urap) yes I know he's being treated as confirmed but I'm illustrating the point.

[RCEnigma]

He thinks you're wifoming. It isn't something town should be particularly interested in over day play.

[RCEnigma]

I have no idea why you all have a fan club around Flavor Leaf.

He's a capable player, capable players are threats to scum. I don't think this is rocket surgery.

[RCEnigma]

Actually yeah that's interesting. That might actually make pops town in hindsight when they hushed up my questioning your 1 shot claim.

[RCEnigma]

I'd probably double down on ligers Lynch right now. Who is Hydra tbd a Hydra of?

[RCEnigma]

Stealthed nvm.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, point still stands about pops.

[RCEnigma]

Nope pretty sure it's rocket surgery. Akin to brain scientists.

[RCEnigma]

It doesn't make sense that they believed you would be 1 shot. All claimed roles to that point were full or even/odd night and they would know based on there roles if x shots would balance the town.

[RCEnigma]

I do have to say I’m surprised scum didn’t do anything to me last Night as far as I can tell.

I think they assume protective.

But scum went with FL after I softed a doc save on him. If they were going to avoid Alchemist to dodge protective they would dodge FL as well.

[RCEnigma]

Nope pretty sure it's rocket surgery. Akin to brain scientists.

You mean neuroscience?

Brainrockets.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t know what went through scum’s head about me.

It would be funny if cerb is scum and scum really do have a lawyer type of role. Would explain a thing or two.

Yeah I was going to argue Ockham's razor says scum probably just have some way to meddle with your results.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah double checked for a pronoun. Found none, went neutral.

[RCEnigma]

I think its easier to understand when you assume I was town from the beginning of the day and I fake claimed and that my thought process was I didn't want to unveil it in case Alchemist was lying but that Wisdom was acting really really weird for a town player to be doing and that it become increasingly awkward for me to keep the lie but didn't want to just incase he was town and I was fooled by Alchemist. It was really weird situation to be in, idk.

A Town fake Cop does not claim a clear on someone before everyone else has posted. You jumped the gun if you were Town to say the least. A FAKE GUILTY gets claimed early to generate reactions, yes. But a fake clear isn't as goof because it simply shuts down discussion about the person you're clearing.

The more you post the more I see why you should be lynched. I just want to take my time exploring other options and reassessing all my reads.

This, I opened the day planning to push wisdom or PPG. PPG died and you insta claimed an inno on wisdom. We might not even have needed alchemist to claim yesterday but what's done is done.

[RCEnigma]

Think there was a tracker/watcher assumption in there somewhere.

[RCEnigma]

A50, URAP, Alchemist, hydra, shiro are my current town block.

Wanted to be mad about this townblock because I'm not in it but...solid actually.

[RCEnigma]

In short, RCE isn't group scum. Assuming an Arsonist exists (just a possibility) he could have been that (and I know he's good at playing solo) but neither I not FL were doused so no. RCE knew we were Masons for real from the get go (he knows us both well enough) and was trying to keep us from being too obv!town so as not to be NK'd. I saw what he was doing clearly, while FL didn't get that play (maybe it's because I sometimes use the same tactic of keeping my strong TRs less confirmed to protect them from the NK)

In short, RCE is town here (sorry if it gets you NK'd, mate)

How did he know this? Was something said in game that he would be able to reasonably arrive at this conclusion?

--MJL

Some that was said and not said. I won't say I believed flat out they were masons though they did claim it day 1. Flavor alluded to his flip confirming A50, or them being targeted together. The way FL brought A50 into his town block. With the kind of player A50 is it stuck out that he wasn't actively trying to sort him.

Then FL started giving out his townreads that didn't really include A50 though he did differ to him multiple times as if he considered him town anyway.

I won't argue I'm a very good player, but I do think I'm able to read between the lines somewhat. If that's what you would call it... They did explicitly claim. I did think the Miller part was bs so goes to show what I know.

Also A50 recognized what i was doing with his slot pretty immediately as it isn't the first time and I likely would have done so with Vedith as well had he remained in the game. It just made me sure he was town and that their connection held weight.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Ico

If you explained your vote here, I've missed it. Why did choose Iconium when they haven't posted since D1?

--MJL

Well day 1 he actively attempt to shift investigatives elsewhere and discredit the idea that shadow (wisdom) should be investigated at all. You can go back and read through our back and forth on it. It's gujsed as conflicting game theory but I think it was blatant misdirection.

[RCEnigma]

You give me butterflies.

[RCEnigma]

All of those who are questioning why I haven't played since D1 is BECAUSE YOU FUCKING QUICKLYNCHED ON D2.
Even with a guilty, it's not very good play.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I questioned why RCE was voting for you when I thought you should be a null-read.

--MJL

Why should I be reading Ico as null? Because he didn't post day 2? Day 2 was a red check into what should have been a day 3 1v1 between Alchemist and Liger though he retracted after the fact.

[RCEnigma]

So I'd agree with Liger but mostly for the small stuff. For example there was a short interaction between wisdom and shiro about a previous game (Giffy-Q) that doesn't feel natural as a partner/partner observation. Reason being it doesn't do anything to prove or "fake" alignment posts regarding slots that weren't also in that game.

Scum theater is hardly subtle like that and only would have been targeted at 1 head in the PPG Hydra and myself to a lesser extent though I wasn't really involved.

[RCEnigma]

I'm isoing Shiro since my contribution is about to drop soon and all that

K. Liger walk. Me through why you didn't check me? Wisdom was being pretty transparently town, yet you were certain I am scum and didn't manage to lynch me, you spent a good amount of day 1 trying to convince people to do so, yet why didn't you attempt to seal the deal?

This kinda reads like a townslip.

Theres also the post where Shiro is telling Wisdom that I faked an inno on him in order for him to townread me so that I could pocket him.

I mean you could make the case that it's TMI from Shiro, knowing that your inno was fake. It sets Town!Liger up for the mislynch albeit further down the line. Wisdom would have to take the fall first.

Since you've already dug it up, was that before or after Alchemist claimed his red check?

[RCEnigma]

Tough call since Shiros tunnel started day 1 which gives probable cause to doubt your claim to begin with.

[RCEnigma]

Throws suspicion on the claimed cop, if you're town and they're scum they know your inno is fake. They can get ahead of you being exposed as a liar.

This is also predicated on Wisdom being a designated buss at some point, with him flipping goon that isn't far-fetched.

Alchemist claiming the red check makes you look bad on wisdoms flip but if scum was going to buss they no longer get the credit. They can still push you though considering how your fakeclaim went.

I don't think Shiro is that scummy or you're that townie, I'm just playing devil's advocate for a whole picture kinda thing.

[RCEnigma]

Just because I was a bit of a dick regarding Wisdom before you revealed your action?

mate, it's more than just revenge. Like, I want to defend you, but then there will be players (more than half the player list) that will argue you should be lynched anyway. It will be a vicious circle and both sides will be posting several pages of why/why not, and it shifts the focus off the real stuff, and it will still be the same way tomorrow if my side is successful in saving your neck today.

This, I'm willing to sheep A50s read on you which is why I don't mind talking things out with you as if you're town and avoid the claim stuff. But you're today's lynch regardless for the good of the town. It's unfortunate but necessary.

[RCEnigma]

I think that kind of thinking requires a lot of planning. Which so-far I wouldn't expect of Shiro.

If I can think of it then it's more than possible and I go under the assumption any given player is as capable or more so than I am.

[RCEnigma]

I think that kind of thinking requires a lot of planning. Which so-far I wouldn't expect of Shiro.

If I can think of it then it's more than possible and I go under the assumption any given player is as capable or more so than I am.

Being able to come up with a plan and then going forward to execute it are pretty different.

There are plenty of users that execute plans well as either alignment.

[RCEnigma]

So claiming miller, claiming, mason, claiming IC, buddying up early, vote hopping

Is anyone townreading FL?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Well not self resolving but I'm sure a kind Samaritan is out there willing to carry out the will of -Protoss deity here- as planned.

Do you think the BP claim was scummy or not? Do you think shadow is scum or not? If the answer to either question is yes, then you should be pushing for a lynch here.
If the answer to either question is no, then the claim doesn't have to be tested as that would waste 2 powers.

I don't see why you would even want the claim to resolve at all because of this.

I Role fish as town more than i do as scum.

I don’t need to Role fish as scum, I’m just good at hunting PR’s

Oh ok good to know.

VOTE: RCEnigma

VOTE: urap

let's lynch scum

well, you did fp me :p

what does fp mean?

fasposted

Hi, Bubbles is suspicious of Volxen and thinks Liger may be town. I would prefer HER to give her reasons why.

This is where my gut is at rn, too

In 584 you wanna lynch the BP claim. From this point, there is zero involvement on your part to actually push this. Moreso, you never vote there anyway.

In 639 you give a number of scumreads in shiro, volxen/mj, Hydra TBD. And end up voting for one of them, never explaining a single one of these reads.

642 feels a lot like trying to buddy A50. Why specifically ask this to him, and not anyone or everyone else?

663 is my biggest issue. A50 replies, and says he has different reads. But instead of asking for information about the slot urap is voting, he wants to know why A50 townreads

the other one.

Feels fake.

HOWEVER, 707 followed by 710 are posts I can relate to, and feel town. Specifically the fact that the hydra only posts after being called out is a red flag, and reminds me of another game I played with a scum!MJL.

VOTE: Volxen/MJL

VOTE: Volxen MJL hydra

Ico, do you think we should lynch shadowless today?

I think it would be a good lynch, yes. And I'm surprised pressure on shadow is status quo after his claim.
Though it's too soon to lynch him now, I want more interaction around his claim first.

Minor scumread on Cereberus. Something seems out of place. Not sure what it is yet.

I started to feel this too.

Piggybacking. brrrrrr. Vedith are you scum this game?

*i suppose a survivor would make sense to get BP, but same goes for a SK*

either way, both options point towards lynching over dedicating town power

That's the kind of thinking that never gets a D1 scum lynch.

Explain this to me? Because either i'm missing the point you are trying to make, or you misinterpret me.

[RCEnigma]

All of your votes to this point, last quote is your stance when pushed on whether you would lynch shadows slot. Sure you say he's a good lynch but do nothing to push that way. It's super non committal to say yes shouldn't be dealt with to explore other lynches AND to make it seem shadow would have been a bad check from his claim.

Humor me with your case on Me + Liger.

I can see a world where Liger is caught scum and you two are distancing as hard as you can pending Ligers flip, but in the other world I still see you as scum making the "group town" play of pushing Ligers mistake. Scum doesn't have to take responsibility there if he's town so no loss in being wrong.

[RCEnigma]

Tldr I don't think it's pretty clear you thought sharow should be the Lynch, day 2 not withstanding.

[RCEnigma]

Feel free to consult on how to push me in the PT I'll wait.

[RCEnigma]

Well I mean unless Alchemist green checked me. But I think thats a waste of an action at this point. Also that is assuming he lives.

He's .. a JOAT. He already used up 2 shots, both of which where strong investigative actions, so I'd expect his 3rd to either be a protective or a very weak informative (Motion Detector??).

Also, with a Gunsmith shot and a Cop shot we are almost guaranteed at least one of Godfather/Mafia Doctor exists if not both. (Gunsmith can't catch the Doctor and Cop can't catch the GF.)

I'd argue towards a vig possibly X-night or another gunsmith possibly being in the setup. Something that triggers a false positive, though I'm not good with setup spec.

[RCEnigma]

I'll fight anyone that wants a pops lynch today.

[RCEnigma]

Dammit A50, now we have to fight.

[RCEnigma]

Dammit A50, now we have to fight.

Nah. We both know we don't want to lynch Liger today. We both agree on a town core, and we probably agree on many other reads. You get to lead the town tomorrow though, so this is kind of my last wish.

Yeah but if not today then it has to be tomorrow. If we have 4 scum and pops/Liger both flip town we're out of luck.

It's also unfortunate for pops that the wagon flips to him when he's the reason Liger isn't hammered yet.

[RCEnigma]

I mean I would go any of Ico/hydra/combo before pops.

[RCEnigma]

Gonna have to stop beetlejuicing combo.

[RCEnigma]

Who said pops flipping scum cleared you?

[RCEnigma]

I've adressed every single piece of poo that was thrown at me but nobody seems to care and talk about it.

Because it's shaky at best. Like if you acknowledged that yes getting investigatives to look away from the only slot that's flipped scum so far looks scummy (it does) then I'd probably have reconsidered my read already.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: pops

[RCEnigma]

I feel guilty for using pop to bait scum into a hammer but there's always at least 1 between Cerb and Volxen.

Eye of Amon is someone off wagon...likely.

VOTE: Cerb

L-1. No one other than A50 has the right to hammer, anyone else is scumclaiming so vote at your own risk.

[RCEnigma]

Well... Fair, that was my bad...

[RCEnigma]

the eyes has to be Cerb, right? It's the first night the eyes didn't kill, right when Cerb is roleblocked?

The eyes killed Clemency so nope.

It says taladra something forces, not the eyes of Amon (Cerb).

[RCEnigma]

Also I found it weird that RCE kind of vanished after Cerberus hammered himself....instead of doing questioning or anything like I did. He just disappeared, and it wasn't like he wasn't around. Between me and Cerberus posting he was a minute from my post responding to Cerb. So he was THERE. Why not interact with Cerb?

What useful information am I going to get out of the guy that just quick hammered himself?

[RCEnigma]

A50 why is RCE town again?

I can't remember why I townread RCE either. Going back through his ISO. He is on the nose about a lot of his reads.

And I don't want to throw on my tinfoil hat too much here. He really thinks highly of FL. Would definitely be a big candidate for someone who might kill him in fear that Flavor would figure him out eventually. Although he will probably fire back that FL was townreading him, which was true at the time.

You can't fear kill someone you don't fear. I respect FL's play but it's not impregnable and it's not something I'm afraid of as either alignment. I'm also not going to worry about a miller claim the first two nights. I'll admit I would eventually kill FL off at some point since he's better late than he is early plus he's a wifom slot.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not sure, I didn't evaluate much in the night since I had a plan to deal with things this day phase but it fell through.

[RCEnigma]

I was sure Hydra/Liger/shiro/Ico had scum in that grouping from the pop wagon.

I voted pop with the intention of baiting scum, only confirmed town were on the wagon and possibly moongrass? But the idea was scum had to make a move on that wagon after my vote to put the Lynch through, essentially claiming red. I was right... But Cerb intended to claim scum anyways. Now I'm not sure if Volxen jumping on was also scum.

A50 are you still sure Volxen is town?

[RCEnigma]

Confirmed claims:

1 shot Joat - Alchemist
2 Shot doc - Pop
Mason - A50
Miller Mason - FL
Odd night Alien - Chenn
VT - PPG
VT - Nero/Urap
/
Mafia goon - wisdom
Unlynchable BP - Cerb

---------
Unconfirmed claims:
1 shot Tracker/Watcher - Volxen/mjl
Even night JK - Moongrass
VT - Ico
VT - Liger

Unclaimed:

Shiro
Rcenigma
Hydra TBD

I'm missing one right? Or is it only 16 slots?

[RCEnigma]

Wow ok, outshine me Liger, it's cool :,(

[RCEnigma]

So, scum don't have a roleblocker. I'm not familiar with Alien jk so I'm not sure how it plays in against scum roles. Miller is a red herring for the joat. Possible ninja?

[RCEnigma]

I assumed but wanted Hydra to claim first.

[RCEnigma]

Maybe not, gunsmith is more likely for a false positive.

[RCEnigma]

Ugh, this is gonna get rough.

[RCEnigma]

I'd like to finish massclaim before I get into Volxens claim.

[RCEnigma]

Poor unfortunate town.

[RCEnigma]

Scum gamed me every night phase tbh, I've played poorly all game so I'll just vote with you A50 VOTE: Shiro

I'm an even night gun vendor.

[RCEnigma]

A50 why is RCE town again?

I kinda have a thing with RCE where we know each other's play. He knew FL & I was for real and we were both left alive on N1. RCE even tried to keep us one step short of being confirmed so scum won't shoot us.

I'm concerned you're believing what you want to instead of seeing that he could have been weakly shading you and FL before deciding it was too risky because you know each other well.

I'm not really scum reading him, I just want that not to skew your view of him in a similar fashion to people being intent on letting wisdom live N1 because of some underlying bro code that seems to exist on this site.

At the time of the bp claim I thought I was odd night and figured we could guide the shot the following day.

[RCEnigma]

N2 I gunned FL N4 I gunned Nero. Figured A50 was going to be the nk.

[RCEnigma]

N2 I gunned FL N4 I gunned Nero. Figured A50 was going to be the nk.

You gunned two NKs? Why didn't you gun A50? It's odd that you would gun a replacement who has a less informed perspective on the game.

Precisely why I thought A50 would be the kill.