Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

MU is way stricter

I called amrock a dumbass and got warned

[RadiantCowbells]

that is not good reasoning

[RadiantCowbells]

Quiz is never getting used

[RadiantCowbells]

If there's some master plan then out it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Systematically lynching the weak slots is the opposite of good play oka

[RadiantCowbells]

Systematically lynching the weak slots is the opposite of good play oka

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote fusco

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: fusco

[RadiantCowbells]

the slip conjecture is moronic

[RadiantCowbells]

why are we lynching fusco

because he flips red

Didn’t Chenn just slip?

He said tmck’s crumb got him “run up” and then he put him in his POE.

~ND

this isn't a slip

[RadiantCowbells]

you're scumreading him for being a dumbass not for being scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

ty for not being bad

[RadiantCowbells]

i had a disaster of an evening, i'm just doing my mod stuff then going to bed. I'll be on as soon as i'm up tomorrow morning

[RadiantCowbells]

if we don't lynch scum today we don't get to 1 of 4 twice consecutively in a useful way and fusco has the single highest equity of flipping scum in this lobby

[RadiantCowbells]

i think overkill can be scum and i think mbaki is scum a lot of the time but this isn't really the game phase to take a chance on a weaker lynch

if i'm wrong i'm wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

if we treestump TMCK can he still use his ability later

[RadiantCowbells]

personal jinx

[RadiantCowbells]

it is 100% of the time worth forcing the lynch on the 8ball as scums weakest player

[RadiantCowbells]

dance is an incredibly anti-town ability

[RadiantCowbells]

hi nance

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm rly overgamed.

[RadiantCowbells]

i lost my car keys and it's been a rough night.

[RadiantCowbells]

uhh

[RadiantCowbells]

yes we do

what are your thoughts on fusco?

[RadiantCowbells]

is that at me ank?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: protect

[RadiantCowbells]

why can't we

[RadiantCowbells]

true

ok so what do we double up on

reveal?

[RadiantCowbells]

we're protecting me, not them.

[RadiantCowbells]

arena's also not a bad double up given that we essentially get double day, but we would want to use 1/4 first.

[RadiantCowbells]

actually maybe coalition still is the most valuable double up

[RadiantCowbells]

noting that i just now realized that coalition didn't give scum a nightkill

[RadiantCowbells]

it also saves me having to deal with pushing mbaki so that's a +

[RadiantCowbells]

rc
taly
nancefloor
chennis
chemist
bef
?
?
?

[RadiantCowbells]

i forgot tmck existed!

[RadiantCowbells]

i should figure out creature as well

[RadiantCowbells]

mbaki is 100% scum by the way.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol @ mbaki trying to claim towncred for being on the fusco wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm going to literally no comment on the first coalition and even ask to be excluded from it.
then I get absolute control over the second coalition if/when it fails.

[RadiantCowbells]

not posting in thread until second coalition.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm blacklisting you for a while if you're town here

hey that's my line

[RadiantCowbells]

also it doesn't work when you throw it down at a point in the game where it makes no sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

this mbaki/RC thing seems unnecessary

it's entirely necessary he's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

why would scum ever cc here

[RadiantCowbells]

like there's no reason tmck would have been softing from early in the game as scum. he's town. idk what you think is going to happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not excluding people from my coalition because they were present in the first one.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm just going to ignore mbaki and then win the game with my coalition.

ttyl

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: coalition

[RadiantCowbells]

8 people need to be in the coalition outside of tmck

[RadiantCowbells]

ok ok i counterclaim repicker i am the real repicker tmck is confirmed scum

[RadiantCowbells]

okapoka must also be scum because he tmid the knowledge that tmck was fake

so we have guilties on okapoka and tmck

gg

[RadiantCowbells]

3 confirmed scum

okapoka nancefloor tmck

ring 'er up

[RadiantCowbells]

good:1of4
Coalition

ok: Treestump
Protect
Arena
Call a Friend
Reveal
Vengeful

awful:
Dance
Popcorn
Quiz
Rank

[RadiantCowbells]

actually

veto is pretty good tbh

idk how it didn't make the list

[RadiantCowbells]

okapoka must also be scum because he tmid the knowledge that tmck was fake

so we have guilties on okapoka and tmck

gg

Do you feel Oka's plan is bad? Where's the flaw?

i want to win the game with the second coalition and if we're doing first set of people then leftovers you can nearly guarantee that we won't end up with a 3/0 setup

[RadiantCowbells]

dance games are weighted to be harder than mountainous and that's with town having some influence over the pairings.

[RadiantCowbells]

we are never using quiz.

[RadiantCowbells]

unless like

we're in 6 way with 1 scum and it's free

[RadiantCowbells]

it's unfortunate that there's only two good powers that kill an odd number of people

I would like everyone to sign onto the idea that both coalition pools must be with completely separate people barring the repicker

i do not sign on.

[RadiantCowbells]

because you can 100% guarantee that we won't win off of the coalition if we're doing it like that
and if mbaki is going to prevent my being prevented i either need to seriously invest into this game and be willing to toxic it up to get myself prevented and murder him or accept that i'm going to be nightkilled and he's going to win

i'd rather just win the game with minimal interplayer bloodshed today with coalition.

[RadiantCowbells]

ITS A POOL OF 9 PEOPLE OKAPOKA

[RadiantCowbells]

so basically

you either let me do my thing and win without having to deal with you all being bad

or you force me to make this game a bloody wasteland, which I don't want to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then just put your suggested pools up. Don't waste time bickering. Like mbaki out.

I'm half convinced you two are S v S melodrama similar to what we pulled in that open game with a hard bus.

this is a terrible read

[RadiantCowbells]

i've already given 6/9 of my suggested pool. i'm still deciding on the remainder.

[RadiantCowbells]

there's still a legitimate case for doubling up one 1 of 4 because if we hit scum it basically free wins the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

double dance?

[RadiantCowbells]

oh actually

dance is not-terrible at this stage of the game because it lets us postpone coalition

[RadiantCowbells]

sure

VOTE: dance

[RadiantCowbells]

we're not doubling dance

just single dance

[RadiantCowbells]

Hmm...why would you want to postpone coalition if you thought you had 3 scrums pegged?

i don't have 3 scums pegged

i do think i have 9 towns pegged

but if we dance i can win off of just having 8 towns pegged.

[RadiantCowbells]

P.S. I have about 40% confident RC is floundering scum.

this is a terrible read

[RadiantCowbells]

i was barely present yesterday, let alone 'hard bussed'

[RadiantCowbells]

your issue here is your failure to understand sarcasm: the 3 confirmed scum was a joke
i have 1 player who I think is >90% scum and who really needs to die b/c they won't get lynched i don't do it (mbaki)

and no real way of weeding through the other slots that i hate.

[RadiantCowbells]

if we remove two players that weren't part of my townblock in the dance that means i only needed 6 correct townreads instead of 7 btw

veto is similar but worse.

[RadiantCowbells]

because I said so

[RadiantCowbells]

titus in our last game your gameplay strategy was to call me scum regardless of what I did and derail any wagons that i tried to lead even though i led on scum d1 and tried to lead on limestone in endgame.

if you're town you really need to settle down

[RadiantCowbells]

dance is good because it makes coalition better

i don't want to 2 of 4 before coalition because 2 of 4 has op synergy with 1 of 4

[RadiantCowbells]

saving 1 of 4 for last is questionable

i dont know if im reading this correctly? OP = overpowered?

and do you understand my grievances with dance?

dance doesn't last forever.

[RadiantCowbells]

you know what do whatever you guys want you think I'm scum anyways after i largely led a punch on scum d1 I dont care about this shitass game enough. dont ask me for my correct opinions if you're not going to listen, please.

I think you're town unless RC is scum.

classic titus strategy: if RC is town i'm going to call his scumreads town.

[RadiantCowbells]

veto never gets scum
dance might

[RadiantCowbells]

veto becomes a lot more valuable post coalition

dance is better now.

[RadiantCowbells]

say we have a coalition pool that we know contains scum

say its like

me
chennis
nancefloor
taly

and 4 other randos

we veto the four randos and then 50/50 at hitting scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

it is extremely greedy and extremely anti-town to burn veto early.

i respect the reasoning but no.

[RadiantCowbells]

quiz and rank are pretty bad

[RadiantCowbells]

because i'm in it or because you doubt taly/nancefloor/chennis?

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll take that as a scumread on me.

[RadiantCowbells]

reads on me shouldn't matter

[RadiantCowbells]

it matters to me

[RadiantCowbells]

vengeful is overpowered in lylo situations. we're not blowing it now for an incremental advantage over dance.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm also fairly sure town you isn't stupid enough to realize how much equity it gives us to leave vengeful in the pool for endgame situations

[RadiantCowbells]

trying to push vengeful here should be seen as a scumclaim for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

no, because it is immensely better later in the game when we're trying to clean up the coalition pools.

it's not a question of what power puts us in the best position at the end of its current usage

it's a question of what order performing all the powers gives town the highest chance of winning the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

all these powers are NOT better after coalitions
dance is better before coalition and also probably better than lynch and it improves our coalition

everything else is better after coalition. 2 of 4 could be argued, the high risk high reward play is to use it not but i sincerely doubt that if we have scum in the townblock it'll be exactly the 1 person that we remove by 2 of 4ing early

whereas 2 of 4ing later wins us a lot of games.

[RadiantCowbells]

2/3 instead of 1/3 chance of losing the game isn't a marginal advantage. or 3/5 instead of 2/5. dance versus vengeful is a marginal advantage.

just ignore mbaki he's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

for the record this is the correct usage order

Dance -> 14
Coalition
Coalition
2 of 4 in the harder pool -> 12
Arena -> 9
Lynches until solo scum or day before lylo
1 of 4 at solo scum or day before lylo
vengeful at lylo

[RadiantCowbells]

can any of the townies who have any mathematical ability back me up that mbaki is scumclaiming by advocating for blowing vengeful early?

[RadiantCowbells]

arena gets used early for the double lynch, quiz doesn't get used at all unless it's mechanical autoloss for scum to submit themselves

[RadiantCowbells]

what mbaki is pushing for us to do is use our abilities super fucking suboptimally under the logic that we're going to steamroll the game then we're going to be absolutely fucked in late game
it is actually playing against wincon to use vengeful outside of lylo. instead of being an arguable tiny advantage in terms of all the safe -2 player no nightkill abilities that maybe adds like 1-2% town equity at best in late game it increases towns chances of winning by 20% or 33% in 3-5 way lylos. that's something no player of mbaki's caliber would be stupid enough to pass up under the rationale that "oh we're going to stomp this game early so we won't need lylo" and something that no player of his caliber would advocate me as scum for suggesting given I could easily be that scum in that lylo situation.

[RadiantCowbells]

Choose by majority vote a player to eliminate from the game. That player can choose another player to eliminate from the game. Mafia cannot kill after this power.

where does it say we can't use this in lylo?

[RadiantCowbells]

that is really really aids.

[RadiantCowbells]

alright

so we can play a "go to evens" strat where we add reveal to the list of PRs that we actually use.

[RadiantCowbells]

also that doesn't change the fact that mbaki is scumclaiming in their opposition

his argument wasn't predicated on it being literally impossible, his argument was predicated on it being wrong mechanically when it was objectively not.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why are we now strategizing in the event of mylo?

Yes, it's good to have a long-term plan, but realistically its unlikely we'll get to this point.

People should adapt to lower-utility powers now if it helps us in a worse position later, but we shouldn't sacrifice strong confidence in our play because we want to detail everything.

what mbaki is pushing for us to do is use our abilities super fucking suboptimally under the logic that we're going to steamroll the game then we're going to be absolutely fucked in late game
it is actually playing against wincon to use vengeful outside of lylo. instead of being an arguable tiny advantage in terms of all the safe -2 player no nightkill abilities that maybe adds like 1-2% town equity at best in late game it increases towns chances of winning by 20% or 33% in 3-5 way lylos. that's something no player of mbaki's caliber would be stupid enough to pass up under the rationale that "oh we're going to stomp this game early so we won't need lylo" and something that no player of his caliber would advocate me as scum for suggesting given I could easily be that scum in that lylo situation.

could you at least try to retype some of your posts?

because how you and

mbaki

are communicating with each other and everyone else will create an apathy pit that leads to conflict.

i cant process the full extent of your argument if youre going to curse and use the logic that someone's approach is stupid, town makes judgment errors especially under disproportional force like this 1v1.

its as bad as

mbaki

distancing himself from enjoying the game with the entire playerlist since gamestart.

we're playing the game in the way that gives us the highest chance of winning the game by endgame, non-negotiably. i'm not going to play the game badly because people are cocky.
are we probably going to roflstomp this game? yes. but that doesn't mean making horrendously suboptimal decisions.

[RadiantCowbells]

veto is far more useful immediately after coalition(s), so, no.

we either dance here into coalitions or we head straight into coalitions.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think there's a lot of value to dance that isn't immediately obvious

yes, you can definitely argue mbaki is suboptimal, and you could be right that hes scum because of it

you can solve this game by yourself but you cant win it by yourself, you need to let in other people to process the game for themselves and then allow them to see your views without harping on trying to get a response the second you want to hardpush a scumread even when we cant lynch it

i've won more games by myself than you've played on MS.

[RadiantCowbells]

you're annoyed because you refuse to treat me with any respect and then get mad at you when I return the favor.

[RadiantCowbells]

coalition has already been decided on

first coalition you guys can do as a group i will have 0 say in it and won't be included in it.
second coalition I do by myself.

Hi to you too...I'm like the only one who engaged you're read so this 'tude is not helping your mbaki lynch quest.

i'm not even trying to lynch mbaki right now. i expect to win this game with coalition without having to actually deal with him.
but i'm not letting him fuck up the ability usage before he goes down.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're not following my lead on abilities you have no right to ask to reveal me.

[RadiantCowbells]

no matter how the mafia arrange the pairs there has to be a pairing that doesn't contain any general townreads, even if that pairing is both town.

[RadiantCowbells]

there are a lot of people in this game that don't understand the actual mechanics of mafia or why decisions make wins or losses more likely so they're just flailing and picking what "feels" good to them emotionally without actually knowing how it impacts the game in the future or how to play around the game not actually being the easiest possible answers.

everyone just wants the scumteam to be something loleasy like overkill clemency timedevil where no wolves are having a decent game and the easiest answers are it

everything that we do with abilities isn't to play for situations that we're going to win either way: it's to play for the optimal chances of winning if the game is actually hard.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh no

veto is fantastic

just, after coalition is used.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can think of 4 slots that should never be coalitioned.

Can you?

If you can then to maximize our coalition power, we should veto.

if there's scum in the townblock then using veto early makes our chances of finding them in the late game far, far lower.
we're essentially trading a vastly expedited hunt on scum in failed coalition pools for

being able to have 8 person townblocks instead of 9 person townblocks

the odds that the 9th person in the townblock is scum is fairly low and even if that was the case, they're going to be the first person lynched after the coalition anyway

can you actually think through what you're doing and what the consequences of it will be instead of trying to make decisions that make you feel good?

[RadiantCowbells]

like if the coalition is going to win the game town was crushing this game anyway.

and even if we don't win b/c of that 9th person that was scum that still means that

THE EIGHT TOWNIEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME CONTAINS 0 SCUM

and we are still going to crush this game
what if the eight towniest players in the game contain scum? what if I'm scum here? how the fuck do you plan to win versus me when you have no more tools left to lynch all the way up the coalition pool

[RadiantCowbells]

Veto will almost guarantee the death of three townies to maybe find the death of one scum, no?

we have 9 people containing at least 1 scum

we're confident that the top 5 are town

now we veto the bottom 4

2 left, still 5 locktown slots, town didn't get to kill any towny slots in the process

see how that works?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am serious about having 5 locktowns.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then in that case how does veto deal with deepwolf? A deepwolf can slip into your locktown.

because now we no longer have to lynch all the way up the pool to get the deepwolf. we save tools like veto to rapidly clear out the scummiest slots and get to the top of the pool, and we save vengeful for lylo situations to give us an extra stab at catching scum. also my townreads are pretty good.

[RadiantCowbells]

veto in coalition pool saves us 2 of the towniest players (that would otherwise have been the nightkills if you had to individually lynch both of those scummy slots that got vetoed), essentially.

[RadiantCowbells]

Taly/Nancefloor/RC/TMCK/Chemist

i'm going to be a bit shier about presuming that bef was town b/c counterwagon without seeing flips but i'm faiirly sure that he's not scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

i already named names, i haven't been secretive about my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

i also have literally no objection to taking the designated double mislynches that scum tries to bait us into taking to avoid killing townreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes we can.

1 of 4 timing depends on a number of factors

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is flat out wrong. In fact, he should never have announced his lock towns in a dance setup if he wanted coalition after. His lockdowns will never be paired together at all if scum have any sense of competence. This let's scum hide. The low hanging fruit will also be paired with them.

Veto is strictly superior and we have total control on who dies.

your problem is that you're seeing this as a thing where we actually try to lynch scum as opposed to just hitting the lynchbaitiest pairing and shrug when it inevitably flips double town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have 9 days or until it's hammered. If RC knew I was town and he was town, he'd be all over veto. Dance gives less info for a town Totus to work with and much more for scum and ironically craptonnes for scum Titus.

no i really don't trust your mechanical skill as town and i don't care about giving you a good situation because you don't threaten me at all as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes
that's not the point
it's MORE useful to be able to quickly flip people in the coalition pools

[RadiantCowbells]

Then why not veto where we actually pick who we get info on?

because dance doesn't skyrocket in +equity later in the game, and veto does.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm gonna be honest I don't care enough about mechanics to get involved in this discussion

but RC/mbaki/Ank are pretty much the only players I personally trust to come to an at least somewhat optimal mechanical decision

soooo... let me know what to vote

- Dannflor

you agree that me and mbaki disagreeing this hard is a pretty good sign that one of us is scum, correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

and I mean if you do the legwork yourself you'll find that i'm the one giving the mathematically correct play with no secret angles for it to be a scum advantage
while mbaki is giving a really questionable "must win this game at coalition" angle that has the secret angle of completely fucking over our odds in lylo?

[RadiantCowbells]

I have 9 days or until it's hammered. If RC knew I was town and he was town, he'd be all over veto. Dance gives less info for a town Totus to work with and much more for scum and ironically craptonnes for scum Titus.

no i really don't trust your mechanical skill as town and i don't care about giving you a good situation because you don't threaten me at all as scum.

Ok, if you don't value me as a player this game, then stop talking to me. I tried to rescue you from your own arrogance but I see you only got worse while I left. I'll help you when it fits for town. For everyone's sake unless you're sorting me, do not talk to me. I only deal with those who respect what little time I have to put here. I'll do the same. I may quote your posts but I am not talking to you.

When you're open to all possibilities, we can talk. When you think the rest of us townies are just fodder to obey you, I'll ignore you and policy you when it comes up.

i don't value you because you don't value me: you haven't addressed a word I said about why I'm correct, you've just insisted that you're right in spite of it.

[RadiantCowbells]

no one has actually presented an argument for why I am posing the wrong strategy for us to have the highest possible odds of winning this game before endgame.
if someone does that i'll address it. everyone has just given fragmented cases of "oh well we have marginally better odds of winning at coalition if we do x even if it screws us over later"

sometimes games are like fire on the mountain and the obvious answers aren't always right and if this game is going to be like that then me being as obstinate here as I have been is the only reason we'll have a chance in late game.

[RadiantCowbells]

quote

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not saying there's not a possibility that we just crush this game early. i'm not saying that I don't expect to win the game outright at coalition. in fact i would bet 2/3 of the time ish we win the game with my current coalition
we might even win without me having to make a coalition or literally do anything. and that's fine. and i'm happy if that happens. i don't like playing difficult games. i like easy games.

but what if this isn't going to be an easy game? what if optimizing the order of our abilities for the entire game gives us the chance to lynch 2 more players (hint: that's approximately the advantage of my plan over everyone elses) and one of those 2 players was the last scum? that's why I play the way that I do. my reads may not be perfect but I have played enough mafia to understand

how to play the game

.

[RadiantCowbells]

like in 864. i was planning all these wild gambits around nancy drew fakeclaiming innos just to see if someone slipped up and gave a scummy answer and to bait scum into making an incorrect decision.
Did it matter? no. scum was exactly who I had said it was since the beginning of day 1 and whom we didn't lynch on d2 because okapoka was being a numpty.

but what if S_S wasn't scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't have to make the game me vs mbaki now but if my coalition doesn't win the game we're probably going to have to fight!

[RadiantCowbells]

most of the time everything that i'm doing now is going to be a waste. and that's

fine

. that's who I am.
most of the time isn't good enough for me. i want to win the game 100% of the time or as close as I can possibly get to that number.

And do you really think I was heard? Dance is just handing scum the keys here. VCA is impossible on Dance. Looking back on votes is impossible. Forming teamwork is impossible. Accountability is impossible. Dance is garbage.

what if we literally just ignore all these things and see it as an opportunity to get rid of 2 players who weren't getting townblocked

[RadiantCowbells]

like i don't give a shit about info. i'm not with tmck and co. about how much "info" it's going to be. i think scum can easily fuck with that. i just want the ability to kill 2 people without losing tmck or burning venge or veto.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus you still haven't quoted your argument for why Dance is inferior to Veto here.

[RadiantCowbells]

That doesn't factor in

1) that we can still kill relatively LHF no matter how the teams are set up
2) the way that teams are paired is absolutely data for later
3) the opportunity cost of vetoing before coalition

it's an extremely narrow look at the problem.

[RadiantCowbells]

well shit

we better not double hit scum then

[RadiantCowbells]

oh shit

[RadiantCowbells]

fuck.

[RadiantCowbells]

also guys holy fuck

this looks amazing



joaquin phoenix is my favorite actor but

[RadiantCowbells]

if we double hit scum we cant veto because there is one scum left

hmm

[RadiantCowbells]

That doesn't factor in

1) that we can still kill relatively LHF no matter how the teams are set up
2) the way that teams are paired is absolutely data for later
3) the opportunity cost of vetoing before coalition

it's an extremely narrow look at the problem.

1) It's the LHF scum want dead, not the VCA useful ones at best.
2)Yes but not data we can work with without flips. Many flips.
3) Veto should happen before coalition.

3) why?
2) not true at all.
1) /shrug i don't agree that scum are going to choose their pools to deprive YOU of your vca.

[RadiantCowbells]

do you understand the argument

that if coalition is going to win the game that this was an easy game anyway

and it's better to play for after the coalition?

1) Any competent VCA can eyeball which slots to pick in a narrow pool. It's usually just the biggest wagons and spots for momentum. The analysis of that data is my skill.

almost every player on MS thinks that VCA is useless.

2) Agree to disagree.

ok.

3) Veto removes the low hanging fruit useful to town and gives VCA data to nail a smaller coalition.

any 2 players who weren't going to be in the coalition being removed from the game reduces the coalition size.
veto does in fact give us better odds of winning at coalition: but if we miss coalition and have already burned veto our odds of winning are significantly worse.

[RadiantCowbells]

and again, if not vetoing was the reason we failed the coalition, we're going to win the game regardless of that coalition failure.

[RadiantCowbells]

using 1 of 4 right after coalition fails is possibly the worst time to use it

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm the one playing the long game here lol

[RadiantCowbells]

leantown, town, shrug, shrug

[RadiantCowbells]

he feels like he's posting real time reactions to the thread in a way that i don't think that he would be able to as scum.
he was transparently scum in 1917.

[RadiantCowbells]

flipping BEF town does not confirm or deny whether he was the eight-ball: it would be much more useful to flip the people leading his wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

scum almost never self vote without a buddy on the wagon, ftr.

[RadiantCowbells]

i should actually not continue to give scum info on dance pairings.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh

actually

yeah

idk

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll just stop posting.

[RadiantCowbells]

i might have bad reads rn

[RadiantCowbells]

veto really is throwing.

[RadiantCowbells]

my mechanics aren't wrong, ever.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's obvious now

[RadiantCowbells]

did you just say that scum would night kill their own to prevent coalition?

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm the towniest player in this game and people are already pushing reveals on me on day 2?

[RadiantCowbells]

That doesn’t really make sense though. Mbaki is probably town and I think this list doubles that down for me as scum would be more likely to pair me with a weak scum player, which mbaki clearly isn’t.

~N

you realize that I can't go after mbaki today because they're paired with you, correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think RC should be the Reveal over Titus. In any case, why does scum!RC pair himself with Overkill11?

why am I the reveal at all?

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is what mbaki wrote about you true

i literally didn't read his posts, you're welcome to pass them forward

also you guys are all really bad for townreading mbaki.

[RadiantCowbells]

Creature has been signup banned for one month for intentionally getting himself modkilled in Sam and Fuzzy Mash by character claiming while expressing awareness that this was against the rules and intent to do it again in the future.

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

RC also hard busses day 1 almost every setup like this, see his comments in post game of NSG's last crapshoot game, and see FOTM (where I locked him as scum like d3 for doing the same shit - granted he was wolfier a bit there).

I've bussed exceedingly rarely over the last year or so and I bussed in FOTM to abuse the meta of having not bussed in a long time because otherwise the prospect of driving 6 mislynches was very unpleasant. In a setup like this where the game is far easier for scum the more scum that they have alive I never lead a wagon on my partner, and if I do I do a better job of it than I did in this game. I even said in FOTM that I feel like when there's less scum alive people are far more interested in pursuing me as town b/c they feel more confident in the win and when people feel more confident in the win they universally go after me as the "long shot" preventing them from winning. You'll notice there was no talk of revealing me until we hit scum and everyone felt pretty good about town's chances of winning.

The idea of "bussing" by setting up my partners associatives in a game where only one of us goes to AP is entirely irrelevant to mafia.

Also: I called Mbaki/Fusco's interactions SvS before either of them flipped. I still think they're SvS. If he knows that at some point I'm going to murder Fusco and then go after him next, he needs as much tcred as he can get. Why wouldn't he lead on his partner when I expressed a strong scumread and every game that he has seen me in my scumreads have been the ones going down.

I don't feel like this is a productive conversation for right now because the structure of the game prevents me from making a move on him for a long time.

[RadiantCowbells]

???

the anuket topaz thing is purely a mechanical statement and has nothing to do with my own personal proclivities towards or away from bussing.
I talk a lot about how bussing is optimal in a lot of situations and then don't do it because it's not optimal in my own personal circumstances.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mbaki is twisting setups where there's a very very good mechanical reason to bus to argue for why I'd be willing to lead on my partner in this one where it would be massively detrimental to my teams chances of winning.

[RadiantCowbells]

Otherwise I think that Mbaki is basically proving my point for him

[RadiantCowbells]

and he's argued that I'm "less wolfy" than fire on the mountain: that's a massive understatement.

I straight up played to scum wincon the entirety of fire on the mountain. I had my path to endgame, I bussed a teammate so I wouldn't have to try too hard, then I let a bunch of lynches go by. I didn't fight lynches on my townreads all that hard, I led random ass lynches, I didn't have a coherent game plan, whatever. everything I did led to my win condition.

If people had an ounce of ability to look past the basics and see what I'm actually doing every single thing I have done this game would have been bad if I was scum.

Yes, scum!me saw you hard pushing my partner, saw every single other player pushing either BEF or Overkill or some other lynch, and I decided I had to get on top of it a day or two before deadline and murderize my partner when he had no votes. And then when it was meant with resistance and town reads, I still told people to vote it, because I needed the edge on town!RC after he had already pointed out our associatives like the genius he is.

Bull fucking shit, fuck off.

Firebringer was far more townread than Fusco was and he still went down in a very similar lobby to this one. I'm genuinely curious why you're wasting my time with this.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're town mbaki there's literally no reason that we need to engage with each other at all right now. you're never lynching my pairing, i don't want to lynch yours.

[RadiantCowbells]

the game will be over a significant amount of the time before any relevant slots start dying off and you should know this
the only reason for you to be having this fight right now is because you're trying to fight your way into the coalition over my objections. talking about game plans as scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

i dont agree with his self assessment/implication of his town game
but you seem to be an expert on his town meta

what don't you agree with?

[RadiantCowbells]

my town game is what it is.

[RadiantCowbells]

i also don't believe that i insinuated that my town game was clear or straightforward

i think the harder it is to understand what i'm doing the more likely it is that i'm town in the general case.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't care enough to give any.

[RadiantCowbells]

this isn't fun for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

first impulse is to lynch chennis x titus

[RadiantCowbells]

oka bef feels like bait but it's a safe lynch and if i'm misunderstanding scum's intent with the pairing either of them could be scum

[RadiantCowbells]

ank/clemency would help me a lot but if ank is town i expect her to scumread me if i go after her and i don't really want to deal with that.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think scum are mostly paired with people we don't want to lynch, yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

i do think chemist is town and i'm surprised that i'm the only one who thinks that.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't feel like justifying my chemist townread.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's not specifically this game

I mostly just want to be out of my games so I can leave the site again and I don't want to replace out of any

funny i was literally just thinking the same thing

[RadiantCowbells]

ank have you seen endgame

[RadiantCowbells]

i think there was always this uncertainty not externally but internally that i was actually capable of being as good as (let's say comparable to) people like northsidegal or whoever
and that was driving my town play thus far this year, but now that i've definitively proved to myself that I am... i don't know that any of this really matters to me anymore
maybe it's time to move on.

[RadiantCowbells]

hi i'm present.

[RadiantCowbells]

my shiny evidence for waht

[RadiantCowbells]

creature has been largely nonexistent sitewide ftr.

[RadiantCowbells]

the answer is coalition and i didn't need to answer that question.

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm confident.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't get lynched at all regardless of any outcomes.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you subtract meta knowledge about my scum play being good i don't think a single person in this game ever so much as considers my slot as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's a great post.

if you think that i'm scum by meta by all means explain why

[RadiantCowbells]

why don't you vote chennis/titus with me instead of creature/chemist

[RadiantCowbells]

the most likely way for me to be fail the coalition is based on an errant presumption that bef was town

VOTE: okapoka/bef

if we want better equity of flipping scum we can hit chennis titus instead.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think the only winning move is not to play

[RadiantCowbells]

neither creature nor chemist is unsortable...

[RadiantCowbells]

well there's me

[RadiantCowbells]

and as anyone who is ANYONE knows

RC is always scum

[RadiantCowbells]

If you don't lynch bef oka you forfeit all rights to holding it against me if my coalition fails.