Starry Night [Game Over]

[DeasVail]

[DeasVail]

Re: matchmaking

In a perfect world, we get some early readslists with a nice 1-16 enumeration, and go with a sort of consensus matchmaking that puts scummy folks together, with a bias toward giving players their preferred partners if they have one.

Just go with the flow I reckon. Let it happen

[DeasVail]

Also Cephrir,

Dance now, talk later?

[DeasVail]

I guess I'll hold off on accepting if it's just going to get you lynched.

Why don’t you have more confidence in being able to let your town light shine?

Are you not town?

DV dance with me, I'm younger, lighter, and cuter,

and not a threat to your life

Sorry pops, I hadn’t read the game properly so I didn’t see this! I will continue pursuing Cephrir for now (he’s playing hard to get tight now clearly) but uh... if that doesn’t work out... I’ll hit you up?

[DeasVail]

Besides, there’s something thrilling about the idea of constant threat of death!

[DeasVail]

accept DV

meh, im just wasting time pretending theres any chance i don't do this

<3

The game start was bad timing for me, but I’ll catch up late tonight.

I feel like I would have proposed to dance with you as scum too (because I would have thought “that’s what I’d do as town”) but I’m not totally sure! I might have actually waited until I caught up or something!

[DeasVail]

Okay I am here.

[DeasVail]

Hey Alisae!

I'm catching up too.

We can kind of do it together!! (Although fair warning I'm pretty slow at reading games and also quite tired right now!)

[DeasVail]

@Deas
use this url
viewtopic.php?p=11099368&ppp=200
it makes the thread 200 pages per post so what ends up happening is you don't have to click next page all of the time you can just scroll

Amazing!

[DeasVail]

like I said I've tried and failed. Cephrir doesn't want me. Specifically joined this game as a lady to avoid being with me. It will always be unrequited

we can have a secret lesbian love affair anytime babe

[DeasVail]

accept DV

meh, im just wasting time pretending theres any chance i don't do this

Did Kagami's approval have anything to do with this?

[DeasVail]

I'm at post 600 and am currently sitting at something like

Town-like: Oka, unwnd, pops, Oversoul, Creature, maybe Dunn

I'm too tired to think about scum right now.

I will be back in fuller force tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Too much conversation, not enough dancing

[DeasVail]

propose some dances deas

I’ve promised myself to someone already. It keeps happening to me I don’t know why!

Ceph, I don’t care if you’re scum. I need a PT to get away from this awkward ball!

[DeasVail]

propose some pairings ceph

i guess this whole "the town needs to consensus on pairings" idea is just wild and strange to me

everyone should just hit up someone they townread

I know, right?

I get that people want to make it “optimal” and whatever but idk it seems like high effort questionable reward to me.

[DeasVail]

my problem with the game atm is that the slots I 100% want to flip include 3 gentlemen and 2 ladies

I don't understand how this is a problem?

[DeasVail]

shiro is one of those players that scum are going to use to push me if they think they can't actually lynch me, so they will argue shiro is scum to lynch our pairing. I know it beforehand. I can see it in the game already.

I gurantee you if we pair, that is where people will push and try to get me to be paranoia on that before. And I am nippiing that in the butt here.

From my skimmed catch up it seems that you're more suspected than Shiro though? So why would it be Shiro's fault that you're lynched?

[DeasVail]

shiro is one of those players that scum are going to use to push me if they think they can't actually lynch me, so they will argue shiro is scum to lynch our pairing. I know it beforehand. I can see it in the game already.

I gurantee you if we pair, that is where people will push and try to get me to be paranoia on that before. And I am nippiing that in the butt here.

From my skimmed catch up it seems that you're more suspected than Shiro though? So why would it be Shiro's fault that you're lynched?

because thats how this has gone in dance games before. Its how it works. I have seen my fair share to know that.

I don't think anyone suspects me rn. They either have no read on me or townread me.
Can you name a person scumreading me?

I thought kagami did

[DeasVail]

[quote="In post 1460, FakeGod"][/quote]
Hope to play with you another time <3

[DeasVail]

Oversoul has asked for a replacement.

In response to this oops.

[DeasVail]

Gamma and Firebringer are the most concerning players to me right now.

The "slightly less concerning but still concerning" group is a bit larger and includes:
- OkaPoka, Gaiden, Bitmap, Cephrir, Shiro

[DeasVail]

You're married to someone in that group..

Why does that matter?

And it wasn’t a lolpropose. Please don’t imply that it was.

Boy. I'm gonna dance circles around you until you remember how to tango.

It’s been a while since I’ve done any ballroom dancing!!

Seriously though, my guess is that you wouldn’t be sure about my alignment right now either. I expect we’ll be able to sort this out when we’re dancing for reals though.

[DeasVail]

No alisae

I was thinking I would probably dance with you before Ceph signed up!

[DeasVail]

I will also likely be voting for FB/Shiro or Gamma/Oka.

[DeasVail]

Unlikely to lynch Dunn/Bitmap right now.

[DeasVail]

idc about details

just a general idea of what he's doing

We’ve moved onto foxtrot now

[DeasVail]

ok I really don't know what to think about that

uhhhhhhhhh

This is very dramatic

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Ceph/DV

I'm going to park my vote here.

By “park” do you mean that you are intending to keep it here for some time or is it more along the lines of “put my vote here”?

[DeasVail]

I think Bitmap is town

[DeasVail]

Care to lead either the thread or me to that conclusion?

I will explain further when not on my phone!

[DeasVail]

target locked

Can you explain this more for me?

I think pops is very likely town and unwnd is in the more townish half of my reads.

[DeasVail]

oh unless you meant me

which is kind of silly

[DeasVail]

Anyway on why I think Bitmap is town:

His posting gives me the distinct impression that he wants to be liked and respected and trusted, which can all come from scum, except... Bitmap is not at all afraid to be obvious about the fact that he wants people to trust him.

Examples:

Actually I take back Oka scumread.
I thought he might be scum defending me softly. I still think Bitmap is trying to play that "look i am town trying to be reasonable by actually sorting their slots but i actually just want to lynch them" position. Which is obvious.

I think oka could just be actually town trying to sort things out.

I'm actually considering the DV/Ceph slot more and Dunn can confirm this to be true in our PT.

The part about "Dunn can confirm this". It really shouldn't be necessary for Bitmap to say that. Obviously if he were bullshitting then Dunn would call him out. Clearly he wants people to trust what he is saying. But I don't think scum of any reasonable amount of experience say stuff like this. As scum about to post this, one would naturally think "Oh no I better not do that, that's trying way too hard".

--

I would consider Ank/MariaR but I don't think my partner would consider that the best.

Here he is giving off the impression that he is very reasonable and trying to work with his dance partner.

But again, the obvious response to this is "why aren't you just dong what you want?" and I believe that scum would typically be able to predict this and avoid making such a cautious-sounding post for this reason.

--

I expect that one could call this a "too scummy to be scum" argument and it's possible that's true, but I don't think so. Because while I believe scum in Bitmap's position would not make those posts, I also think they're actually reasonable posts for town to make. They just look classically scummy, and I think this part of Bitmap's play was what had me leaning scum on him as a I read through the pre-dance. But on further thought, I've changed my mind. I think Bitmap is town.

[DeasVail]

My townlist currently is:

unwnd
Dunnstral
Golden Robster (this is a potentially outdated read based on Oversoul posts and I haven't properly parsed Robster's posts yet)
Ankamius
Kagami obv
Pops
Creature
Bitmap

There are some people not on this list, only because I did not townread them earlier on and also have not properly caught up on their posts yet. It is possible that with more reading I will add to this list. I also am obviously liable to error! Maybe there is scum in my townlist! I don't know! But this is what I think at least.

I expect that I will still be deciding between Gamma/Oka and Fire/Shiro today.

[DeasVail]

ehhh

I don't agree with that reason but I think Bitmap is town so sure!

[DeasVail]

Fair!

Just quick re: Pops and Ankamius, they are general impression reads in addition to:

Pops - Seemed to just get really BOTHERED by the whole pairing of me and Cephrir, like, beyond rational reason. And this just felt really genuine to me. It was as if they just couldn't comprehend why Ceph and I would have a shotgun dance. In a way that didn't seem at all calculated or thought out. From memory on reading through I think there were a couple of other examples where pops was just super OPEN about tangentially relevant opinions that scum would probably just not get so invested in.

Ank - Scumreading her used to be cool but the appeal has just worn off on me. The number of times that she has talked about the dance pairings not going the way she wanted them to is striking to me, and I haven't even read all of her posts. I actually get the impression that she is legitimately upset that the town didn't just listen to her posts and ignore what they themselves wanted to do. Scum aren't going to naturally expect that town do what they say because.. well.. they're scum, but town often do and this is part of why Ank strikes me as town.

[DeasVail]

I feel a bit better about DV, not really on Ceph.

I feel the same way, but I’m definitely town and I suppose it’s possible that Ceph will reveal he’s actually town at some point, so I’d prefer to at least wait a bit before lynching us.

[DeasVail]

DV's #2336

Do you have experience with Bitmap? I wrote a tangent on bitmap myself in my PT if you wanna compare and contrast

Spoiler:

Bitmap - Really dislike this slot. Bag of inconsistencies. Tried to confront them about these and he just had what I call self-tells. It's when you pressure someone and they self-tell about something so it's invalid, and I find when town are trying to self-tell they usually are doing it to reprimand someone for a bad read, but Bitmap's self-tells are only used to redirect. I don't understand how someone can go from raw aggression and saying my scumread is shit to saying they distrust their own townplay and saying themselves are shit. Like...if you're an unsure player you do not lead most of your arguments as black and white, because I've never seen him consider that perhaps he could be wrong? Just doesn't feel like he's thinking about what he's saying and what it means to him personally rather just entertaining the thread. Scum

I’ve probably played with Bitmap before but it would’ve been ages ago so any read of mine is not going to be meta-informed. I like your reasoning but ultimately I disagree similar to why Kagami does.

[DeasVail]

Dunn I would be interested in hearing your reasoning for me/Ceph town.

[DeasVail]

I think Ceph is town.

Also I was hoping to have more time for this but my work day has basically derailed so we’ll see

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Firebringer/Shiro

[DeasVail]

Why that pairing

Firebringer/Shiro and Gamma/Oka were (and still are to some extent) the two pairings where I don't have any real townreads. However, I feel more doubt in regards to Gamma/Oka containing scum than Fire/Shiro. I'm going to be upfront about the fact that I'm not fully caught up on the game and it's possible that reading through will change things. My priority up until now has been in working out Cephrir's alignment and sorting things out there (and I've been using my available time mostly for that) so that I could have an idea of how hard I should be trying to keep us alive. There was a point where I felt pretty sure that Ceph was scum, for example!

Now I expect that I'll be more involved in the game as a whole (but this will not be able to happen right away sadly). In the meantime though, I'm voting Firebringer/Shiro to make the leading wagon of Gamma/Oka not seem as much like a slam dunk option, and also in part because Ceph is voting there and it seems nice I guess?

It's possible that none of this makes sense to you, but it makes sense to me!

[DeasVail]

I will be here tonight to go through things and provide reads.

I seriously believe a lot of people have taken a super basic approach to reading me which is weird and oddly concerning?

[DeasVail]

should I be townreading you???

That’s for you to decide! And hey, I don’t really expect confident townreads by any means at this stage. But from my quick glances there seems to be a lot of focus on what my reads are/whether I have reads (if anyone is familiar with me/takes a look at my games it’s clear that I can whip up reads and reasoning as scum), on a similar vein Bitmap mentioned me needing to “step it up”. I even saw something about distancing from Oka? Which kind of baffles me.

Anyway, I would be interested in an explanation for the Bitmap/Dunn vote. I looked through Bitmap’s last few posts. I don’t particularly like them from an objective standpoint but I feel like there’s reason for the vote that I’m missing.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Dunn/Bitmap

[DeasVail]

Why the vote deas?

The response to the pressure feels incredibly inauthentic. It seems to be an attempt to save face with the odd attempt at “townie” bravado with “Dunn better flip scum” but there’s no real feeling or thought there. I’ve rethough my earlier reasons for thinking Bitmap town and I’m really not sure that they stack up. Particularly with all of Bitmap’s recent “hypothetically if Dunn is scum” stuff.

[DeasVail]

should i be reconsidering my reads?

I still think deas is scum in ceph/deas

Does there need to be scum in Ceph/Deas?

[DeasVail]

i don't think town!deas does a reversal on bitmap here.

I like to think that one can change their reads based on re-evaluation and consideration of new information.

[DeasVail]

Fine with me

I'm mostly wanting to sort deas once and for all mainly, if he's town sand can really show it, all the better

If you’re town and you know it, clap your hands.

clap clap

If you’re town and you know it clap you’re hands.

clap clap

If you’re town and you know it then you really ought to show it.

If you’re town and you know it clap your hands.

clap clap

[DeasVail]

Why the vote deas?

The response to the pressure feels incredibly inauthentic. It seems to be an attempt to save face with the odd attempt at “townie” bravado with “Dunn better flip scum” but there’s no real feeling or thought there. I’ve rethough my earlier reasons for thinking Bitmap town and I’m really not sure that they stack up. Particularly with all of Bitmap’s recent “hypothetically if Dunn is scum” stuff.

[DeasVail]

Reads time!!!!!

Kagami/SXTLHGaiden

I'm not actually that motivated to do anything about Gaiden at this stage. Their posting doesn't convince me that they're town, but people seem to think they are town, Kagami thinks they are town and there is nothing concerning enough for me to feel the need to contest this right now!

--

Ankamius/MariaR

Ankamius is still a strong townread for me. The persistence and depth of their INVESTMENT, both emotionally and otherwise, exceeds what I could reasonably expect from scum.

MariaR is less certainly town in my mind, but overall her play gives me the impression more of town trying to work out the game and exert their influence, rather than scum trying to look town. This is the case even when I apply a mindset of assuming that MariaR is a very good scum player. The fact that she is keeping up with a PT with Ankamius without causing Ankamius concern is also a point in her favour to consider!

--

Firebringer/Shiro

This is a pairing where I'm not really confident in either member being town, but I don't think they are my top priority for lynch?

Firebringer: 2170, 2176 response to suspicion makes me suspicious of faked bravado!
The progression from 2198 (beginning of Oka scumread) to 2219 (end of Oka scumread) is difficult to interpret.
However, overall I find Firebringer's interaction with the Oka suspicion less likely to come from scum with Oka. I have my doubts, but I would lean towards Firebringer being town.

Shiro I feel less good about. I don't find myself truly believing her suspicion of Firebringer early on with how quickly it resolved and never came back again. Posts like 3355 seem like an effort to sound towny and reasonable but what's the point? The whole thing about not liking the Gamma/Oka wagon after they had already flipped is something I'm still not sure about. It actually took me a while to figure out they had been lynched, and I actually considered pretending that I hadn't seen it as a way of making myself look town (I beg forgiveness!), so it isn't out of the question that scum in Shiro's position would actually do that. Interesting that she would choose to post it in the PT with Firebringer rather than in the thread but I can see reason for it.

I would consider lynching this pair in the near future mainly because of doubts about Shiro but I don't think I want to lynch them right now.

--

Dunnstral/Bitmap

In terms of reads, I think this pair is the most uneven for me. I think Dunn is town. I like their approach to the game and the way they're going about reads. I just think they're wrong on Bitmap.

Bitmap's expressed motivations/thoughts just change throughout the game in a way that I think is based on convenience and being able to "say towny things" than on genuine change of thought.

1016 & 1021 - Essentially boils down to "I just want to help out, it's okay if I don't get picked"

1526 "I'm open to all gents except unwnd"

And then after being picked by Dunn there's a confidence in Dunn being town early on doesn't fully match with his expressed self-doubt in 1016/1021.

And as MariaR points out, 3287 contradicts with his earlier posts.

I can see the above being explained by town possibly, but in addition to this I really don't like Bitmap's response to pressure, as pointed out previously, and it makes me feel better about Bitmap being scum than anyone else being scum at this point.

--

unwnd/popsofctown

Town/Town imo.

I feel like the way that they each are approaching the game is authentic, but in different ways. Unwnd is putting a lot of thought into reads and how to go about discussing them with their partner. Popsofctown says what she wants to regardless of how it might sound. They were also the first pair on the Oka wagon.

--

GoldenRobster/Creature

Both of these slots are in the weaker town but still town section of my reads. The townread on Creature has been ever since the existence of lupin and has been maintained since then. GoldenRobster is perhaps a weaker read, but they haven't given me overall much concern thus far.

This is where I think I may be missing scum but I haven't really identified much yet.

--

My plan right now would be to lynch Bitmap/Dunn given that I feel Bitmap has the highest chance of being scum.

[DeasVail]

See Deas reads also alarmed me a bit about what we are doing, the way he basically only fgocused on mine and yours pair is basically a we lynch these slots back to back but I feel this one has more chance of flipping. I dont neccessarly see this as coming from scum but if bit is town that is where my vote is going afterwards.

Where else do you think I should focus?

[DeasVail]

See Deas reads also alarmed me a bit about what we are doing, the way he basically only fgocused on mine and yours pair is basically a we lynch these slots back to back but I feel this one has more chance of flipping. I dont neccessarly see this as coming from scum but if bit is town that is where my vote is going afterwards.

Where else do you think I should focus?

Dunno, that why I said I dont neccessarly think this is coming from scum. It can very well be town that sees this as todays focus so we focus on this.

Why don't you think I should focus elsewhere?

[DeasVail]

Bitmap had a pretty good case against Deas early on in the pt, in that his iso is weak and sheeps general consensus

In a world where I am town, do I have reason to believe the general consensus is wrong?

How does scum-me and town-me behave differently here?

I feel like GoldenRobster/Creature is where I am perhaps being lazier than I should be, but apart from that I have no qualms with how I've approached my reads here.

[DeasVail]

How does scum-me and town-me behave differently here?

i am actually interested in u answer this urself deas.

I feel like it’s a more relevant question for someone who is scumreading me to answer because in saying that the way I’ve gone about my reads has caused Dunnstral to think I’m scum, the implication is that I would be doing something different if I were town.

As for what I think:

In this situation as scum I need to act. I’ve lost a buddy and only have one left. There is a town core forming and I am not part of it after my struggles to remain caught up with the game earlier on.

As scum here I’m not going to win by going with the flow and doing nothing to stand out. I need to do something to get townreads. I need to convince everyone that I am TOWN without looking like I’m doing it.

How would I do that?

Well I don’t know. I haven’t thought about it because I’m not scum.

But probably not what I’ve been doing here!

[DeasVail]

I’m going to sleep now and I’m kind of done with talking about myself.